Halford & Brough in the Morning - Ray Ferraro On How The Canucks Can Generate More Offense

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason discuss the Canucks' scoring woes and what they can do to fix the issue with NHL analyst Ray Ferraro (1:24), plus the boys discuss the future of Brock Boeser on the club (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Ferraro, Ferraro, let's chat with Ray Ferraro. It's time for Ferraro, let's talk to Ray Ferraro. Ferraro winds up with a shot, score! Ray Ferraro, breakaways on site, scores! Rebound score! Ray Ferraro! Ferraro, Ferraro, it's time for Ray Ferraro. Let's chat with Ferraro, it's time for Ray Ferraro. 701 on a Tuesday, happy Tuesday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda,

Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff. They can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour two of the program. As that music suggests, Ray Farrar is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Homineck at jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you.

Visit him on the internet at jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec Footwear and Orthotics working together with you in step. To the phone lines we go, Ray Ferraro joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Ray, how are you? I'm good. I just finished taking the podcast and now I'm talking to you donkeys and on my way to Los Angeles

and I don't know, whenever the plane leaves. That's quite a come down, quite a come down from the four nations, having to watch that and be, be a part of that, be in the building for that. And then Halford and Brough at 7.03 on a Tuesday, on a wet Tuesday. So that game, you know, the Four Nation ends on Thursday. I've got a game Saturday afternoon at three

o'clock in Pittsburgh. And as I'm walking in, Sidney Crosby is driving in. And you know, I'm walking in, he's driving to where the players park and we kind of see each other and I just say, hey, how you doing? And he's like, you know, like just kind of tired, right? And I'm like, well, I'm exhausted and I was just standing there. So like, I can't imagine how tired these guys must be to, you know, to just turn around after that. And we all feel it and we were just watching and they got to play. It's a challenge for sure.

How many times did you kind of take a moment to just look around and I know you were busy, but just appreciate the fact that you got to be kind of center stage observing that atmosphere and that type of hockey. Uh, well, I was there on the Saturday night, you know, in Montreal and I, you know, you turn around and the fans literally hang right over the bench and you know, you look up at the Bell Center, it's so big. And, and I was like, man, this is like, it was

amazing. It was a, of course that's the game with the three fights. It was just like a, it was amazing. It was a, of course, that's the game with the three fights. It was just like a, you know, the noise was incredible. The, like the passion of it. And then to get to Boston for the final and you know, the rink is filled with the USA chants,

but like before the game and it was, it was a really special place to be, like to be in that tournament. And I, Darren Pang used this term. We were talking the other day, he said it was like a pop-up Christmas store. Um, you know, like that they put up in little towns and he's like, and all the great things of Christmas are there and then they're gone. And that's really what this was.

Like, there's no way anybody saw this coming. No chance. No. And it w I, I think on every level, it was better than what we all thought it could be. And now we're back to the season and you know, we get through it and oh my gosh, in two weeks here, we've got this, you know, we've got this

deadline and you know, that's the next phase of this whole thing. And then, Oh boy, after that, you deadline and you know, that's the next phase of this whole thing. And then, oh boy, after that, you've got four weeks to the end of the year, like it's, or five weeks, it's going to happen super fast here. Um, let's talk about the Canucks top six. This is something that we were talking about on the show yesterday and as currently constructed,

you've got Phillip Heidel, uh, between Brock Besser and Drew O'Connor, or Leas Pedersen between Kiefer Sherwood and Jake DeBresque. What, you know, there's so many people that text in and say, ah, this is boring, talk at hockey. He's got to find a way to get more offense out of the group. If you're Rick Talkett, how are you getting more

offense out of this group? Well, the one thing that people have to realize and I read a little bit and I hear a bit about last year, Pocket was coach of the year finalist and this year he can't coach and that's not possible. Like he didn't go to stupid school over, over the summer. Right.

Like he just, it just doesn't happen like that. So if you think he was a good coach last year, he's a good coach this year. Now, some of the things of last year aren't here Miller in particular, and the Miller of last year. Um, but they're just, clearly offense is a problem. And offense was a problem if you look at them, you know, at the tail end of last year. And part of the problem is they're,

and I think they tried to address it a little bit with O'Connor, is they're not fast enough. So you have to get faster, you have to be more skilled. Well, where do you get more skilled? Nobody's giving you that. It's hard to get if you don't have it. So if I'm talking, the one thing that I can do, and I'm sure he's blue in the face with it, is try to get guys to shoot the puck. Try to get movement in the offensive zone that creates shots. You know what drives me crazy is the, um, the number of times there's a shot available and they shoot it for a shot tip.

You can use the goalie as a backboard. Don't shoot it where you can get his hands on it. Shoot it on his pads. There's a rebound, there's chaos, there's people around the front of the net. It's not going to be this all of a sudden there's chaos, there's people around the front of the net. It's not going to be this, all of a sudden there's going to be great passing plays all over the place and you know you're going to look like the Oilers of the 80s. Like that's not going to happen. So you generate with speed, aggression and chaos. And you generate chaos by shooting the puck.

The other thing is last, last game, um, they had 15 shots. I think they missed the net or had blocked 36 times. Like the net guys has been in the same place for 200 years. It has not moved and it's frustrating to watch when guys are constantly, they miss the net. I'm not talking about a one-time shot from the blue line. Like they're trying to get it around traffic and all that stuff, right? Like sometimes you just miss the net.

But when there is an opportunity to get the puck on the net, it's got to be, there has to be a more concerted understanding of that's got to hit the net first before I try to put it off the bar and in. And this goes through a team, it's like the flu. It's amazing when everything goes well pretty soon, everybody's scoring, everybody feels good about themselves. When it's the other way like it is right now. It goes through the team and the team is sick. Like offensively they're sick and it's a hard thing to break.

It really is. But the simple way you say about how do you generate offense, well the first way I guess is to get Quinn Hughes back because that certainly helps. Secondly is a puck's got to be on the net. It's got their feet have to move to create space to shoot the puck and then you the shot gets a nice idea when it's there but the puck to the net, the goalie is a backboard, the rebound, the fight for the puck, the jam around the net, that's how this team has to score. And it's hard and it's ugly and that's just the way it is,

but that's how it has to happen, in my opinion. So we ran the audio after the Utah game of talk and explaining, and he pointed out the exact same thing you did between the 21 blocked and the 15 missed. He said that's 30 something. I did the math. I'm like it's 36 Rick. Shots that didn't get through and hit the net and then he went very clearly and very explicitly through everything that they need to do in order to alleviate that. Like you said, like move your feet more, get different angles to shoot the puck. Then when you shoot the key is

hitting the net, not missing it. I was like, that's a good point, too. Like we should they should definitely consider that. And then don't double clutch. He said that. And I was obviously directed probably right at number 40. Here's the thing. I feel like talk, it said this countless times this season that within the framework of how we play these are

the things you need to do to hit the net my question is why haven't they been able to implement those things yet because it doesn't seem like the biggest stretch like it's not he's asking him to reinvent the wheel he's just asking him to tweak the way that they're shooting the puck is that a mentality thing are they not listening to the coach yeah do they not have the right guys to do it I you said hit the net I I keep mixing this up. I was missing the net. My bad.

Yeah. I think, okay. So they are, he is pointing out the obvious, right? And I am pretty sure that I would assume these guys are in the NHL that they would understand that I'm not getting my shot through. Like you start looking at things less as a team and more as an individual. This is, you know, the old phrase, right?

The weakest link in the chain. So the chain is the team, the link is you. And what am I doing to help this or not help this? If you want an example of not moving your feet and of players that know better because we've seen it in the past, watch their last power play. Just go to it from last game and just watch it.

Okay. Watch how many times they shoot the puck standing still and it gets blocked. And you're like, these guys, like if they look at it, which they will, and they'll, you know, cause there'll be video and stuff, they'll look at it and go, you know, what am I doing? Like it's amazing how many times you see yourself on video and go,

what am I doing? And so now if you can understand it, and again, guys, it seems so simple. Like I'm telling you, I haven't had a pair of skates on in two years. I'm a way better player than I was when I played right now because I never make any mistakes. It's like, well, can't you see you should do that? And of course you should do that. When you're out there, there's a whole bunch of guys in the way. And your mind is the biggest obstacle to anything that you do. Like Brock Besser can't make himself faster, but he can move his feet. I go back to when he first came and I thought

that the one thing that's going to determine his success is can he get two feet of space to shoot the puck? Because the shot's never going to be the problem. It's going to be can he get the two feet? And there's sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. The other night he's one of the guys that shoots it standing still. He's a 30 goal scorer. He knows differently.

And the reason you point him out is because he's one of the guys that in this mix has to score. Same with Pedersen. Like, man, I don't understand it. I'm going to, you know, I think I said this before. I don't really quite understand the whole thing. Like what, like how does he go from 90 point guy to this? But his lack of mobility to shoot the puck.

And again, I'm looking at moving two feet to get away from the guy that's checking you or to get around the block of the shot. I just don't understand it. And it seems like it's pervasive through the team. Like they're wearing out shin pads right now. Yeah. And, and it's really, you know, they're frustrated, I'm sure it's frustrating to watch.

And I'm sure it's frustrating to coach. Just watching how the guys in the four nations attack the middle of the ice. I mean, there weren't many power plays, but, and I've watched Nathan McKinnon on the power play before, and when he gets the puck, he's just, he's moving as he almost like before the pass gets to him, he's moving.

He's kind of skating. Okay, but hang on. He's a different type of player, but. Yeah, I was just going to say, let me, let me just, let me just say, that's a bad example because you're comparing, you know, like that's like saying, you know, your, your buddy's got a Porsche and you've got a Toyota Corolla.

Why don't you drive the same speed? Okay. There's a couple other guys that stood out at the four nations though, at the four nations though, like Jake Gensel is always moving. I thought Dylan Larkin had a really good tournament as well. Okay, but you know who's a great guy there to

compare with is Gensel. Cause he's a good skater, not a great skater. You know, like that, that I think that becomes, that becomes part of the equation. Like Larkin can fly, flat out fly. The guy, there were players in those games that I mean really great NHL players that looked pretty pedestrian at that level

because of just the amazing pace that that stuff was played at. So in here, as we're talking here, when you're on the wall, you have to have the realization in the one second that you have the puck, that I can't stand here. I need to be 10 feet to the middle if I'm ever gonna score.

And right now I think like that, everything is just a little bit off. Like they have the puck, they have room, they think they've got space, but they're on the boards. Like nothing happens. You know the way teams defend. They just leave you there and stand there all day. Nothing happens. You get six shots a period. Like the read of the play, the connection to do something, which is get to the middle, to shoot the puck, to move the feet around the blocker. Like these things all have to happen together. And man, I'm with you. It's like, why doesn't it happen? It should happen. These players have done it before. Like, can they do it at a 40 goal level?

No chance. Most of them. It's not there, but there's, you can have a bunch of 22 goal scores. If that's the way you're built right now, but then your best boys, they better be your best. And so if Pederson's got no goals at 11 and Besser's got whatever he's got, you know, I don't know. And Garland has gone really quiet and there's no Quinn. Like where are the goals coming from? Right. That, I mean,

it's a legit question and you can depth players are depth players for a reason. Like there's a reason guys score 15 goals. That means they don't score in 60 games a year. And if they all come together, then you've got a whole bunch of guys that are not gonna help you much offensively. We are speaking to Ray Ferraro here on the Haliford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650. I do to turn our attention to a team that has absolutely no problem scoring goals right now.

That was a team that you covered on the weekend, the Washington Capitals. You mentioned that game in Pittsburgh. You didn't mention that it was an 8-3 win for the Capitals. And then the Capitals decided for good measure, they were going to go out the next night and score 7 on Edmonton. So 15 goals over two games against Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid is pretty impressive. What did you see from Washington, especially offensively and follow-up question,

because we were talking about this yesterday, do you see them as a bona fide Stanley Cup contender? Okay, Washington is an excellent case study because last year I thought they were the most curious of playoff teams. I think their goal differential was like 37. Like, it was crazy. They scored like 220 goals. Like they never scored. And then they lost in four games to the Rangers. They had some, a couple of young players that were really excited about Connor McMichael, Hendrix Lapierre, Alexi Protus.

Lapierre hasn't hit. He's back in the American league. McMichael and Protus. Protus had three goals in 56 games last year. And he's got 25 now or 24. Like he's a legit scorer. But he went away and they told him, you need to be in better shape to stay in the shift longer that you don't run out of gas earlier.

And so that was a lot of his focus. A lot was working on his shot. He's a new player. So those things hit for them. They got a couple of, um, you know, they got a couple of young guys that, that hit and then they had an amazing summer. Amazing. They trade a third and a fifth round pick for Logan Thompson.

Uh, they signed Matt Roy as a free agent. They trade Nick Jensen and a second or third to Ottawa for Jacob Chickern. He's got 16 or 17 goals. They trade a second for Manji Apani. They signed Duhaime and then they make the big trade Kemper for Dubois, which was a pretty, you know, it took some courage to make that trade because Dubois now, you know, after a while there's not enough teams waiting for a guy with all the tools to hit. And he's been great.

So they're, they are fast, they're aggressive. They, they are not fancy. Like they are not fancy at all. If you, if you watch their team, of course, I got the greatest goal scorer in the history of the game standing there. That doesn't hurt. And he's having an amazing year, but they just play fast and they for check and they're, they're in your face and they're with Pittsburgh had no chance on Saturday.

Um, so, and the second part of your question is, do they, are they a legit team? Yes, they are for me. They are. Uh, I think in the East there's four or five teams that you look at and you go, they're kind of all the same. I mean, they're different, but they're all the same. There's no runaway super team this year. Anywhere.

So anywhere. So. Anywhere. Yeah. So if you're in the mix, like, I, I, like if you're in one of those top five, six teams, I think you have to be aggressive here if you can. Like if you have some assets to move because when is it, when is it going to be more wide open? You don't know, it might never be.

Um, what do you think about the fit for When is it, when is it going to be more wide open? You don't know, it might never be. Um, what do you think about the fit for Ranton in, in Carolina? I don't know how much you've been able to watch of his games, but I've seen a few things, um, where it suggests like maybe the fit with him and the system that they play isn't perfect. Uh, I think that's a legit observation. Um, I mean, that's my opinion. maybe the fit with him and the system that they play isn't perfect? I think that's a legit observation. I mean that's my opinion. When I think of Rantanen, I think of him holding the puck, slowing the play, moving around, looking for space,

using his size, creating more room, and then around the net he finishes. Now he hasn't finished very well and I do think that will you know that'll leave it its way out but the style of Carolina which is go and fast and straight and direct doesn't necessarily jive with him. And this is I mean this is not new. I mean, this is not new. I mean, there are teams or there are really good players that don't fit with certain teams. And it just, sometimes it just doesn't work. And you're like, well, why is that guy so good here, but not there? Some of it is stylistically the way it fits.

And if I were Carolina and, you know, I don't know what the contractual discussions are all about right there, I'd be nervous. I'd be nervous that it gets to the end of the year and he says, yeah, this isn't working for me. And now you've traded Marty Nacius and you might not have him. I would be nervous about getting to that place. So I do think there is all kinds of pressure

on this next two weeks here, 10 days, whatever it is, till the seventh on Carolina to try and get a real understanding because I would be terrified of going to free agency with Rantanen right now, given what I've already given up and thinking, Oh, I might not get anything back. That that would be, that would be a tough one. You mentioned you're taking off to LA real quick. Did you happen to watch a

game last night? I did. Yeah. They look so much better offensively than I remember, especially last season when they really struggled to score goals. And we were, we had, we did like a five minute drew Doughty appreciation thing. I know obviously you got to watch him in the Four Nations face off, but they just feel like a totally, I mean, I don't think I'm reinventing the wheel with this analysis

here, but they feel like a totally different team with him in the lineup than without. Well, there's personality and swagger and, you know, and F you, you know, I mean, that's, that's basically Drew's whole game, right? He's always had it. Uh, remember when he's playing in 2010 here, he's just a kid and he overslept the bus and shows up in the room, his hair is all over the place and, and,

and then he plays great. Like there's, there's something about that guy. Like he just, he just got it. But isn't it interesting? You know, Jim Hiller took over last year after Todd McClellan. He's, you know, doing a great job in Detroit and Detroit scoring all kinds of goals. Well, how come LA couldn't score last year?

This is, this goes back to the coaching thing again, Todd McClellan is not a bad coach. Things didn't work in LA for whatever the reason was. They couldn't score. They go to Detroit. Now they're scoring like crazy. Same guy, different people. Systems probably the same.

Jim Hiller was the interim coach last year and they were, man, you guys remember watching LA last year, you were poking your eyes out. It was bad. And, and now you're like, they ran over Vegas last night. Like it was impressive in the third period, man, that was impressive. Well, if Byfield ever fully puts it together

and he had a great game last night, that's going to be an even bigger help to LA. I, I think, I think he's going to get it for, you know, when he got drafted, um, and when he was on the world junior team, he was the youngest guy in the world junior tournament, two years in a row. Then he got drafted and he was the youngest guy in the NHL.

And, uh, I mean, it takes, he's six foot five, right? And you know, they played him on the wing last year, he's finally getting back to center, you know, time and patience and all the things that nobody likes to have. Um, certainly in this game and, uh, man, he looks like, he looks like a player. He really does.

And it doesn't hurt that Kopi can still play. You know, Kopitar can, he still plays, man. He is, he is the gold standard for, for that type of player for, you know, every team Patarkin, he still plays, man. He is the gold standard for that type of player. Every team would love one of those, that's for sure. Well, you're gonna get a chance to see all of them tomorrow. It's the Canucks in LA. Ray, I know you gotta get there, so travel safe, be well. Thanks again for doing this.

We really appreciate it. And enjoy the game tomorrow night. Awesome, thanks guys. We'll talk to you next Tuesday. Sounds good. Have a good one. Yep, Thanks Ray. That's Ray Ferraro here on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. Okay.

When we come back, we're going to talk about Brock Besser and his future because the Canucks probably need to make a decision on this guy before the March 7th trade deadline. It is February 25th today. The trade deadline is next Friday. So this issue with the Canucks is coming to a head.

Uh, any of your thoughts on Brock Besser, text him into the Dunbar Lumber Text Line 650-650. Metro Vancouver's trust Detroit's for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dunbarlumber.com. You're listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

Hey, it's Mick Nazar. Have your say and join me on the People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets. Weekdays three to four on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. 733 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday everybody. Halford and Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything

you're looking for, sales, financing, service or parts. We are in hour two of the program. Open segment here in hour two. Landon Ferraro is gonna join us at eight o'clock. Ray Ferraro just joined us to kick off the seven o'clock hour. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominuk at jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you.

Visit him on the internet at jason.mortgage. It is not just any other Tuesday. You know, it's not just a regular Tuesday. This Tuesday, February 25th, is the 28th birthday for Brock Besser. Happy birthday, Brock Besser. Long time Vancouver Canuck. I'd say beloved Vancouver Canuck,

one of the genuine good guys that the organization has had for the last five, 10 years or so. Everyone likes Brock Besser, but Brock Besser's future, now at the ripe old age of 28, is kind of up in the air. We've got some audio on this front. I guess in the non-Peterson division of Canucks News from yesterday, there was a lot of chatter about Brock Besser and his playing future, where he

might end up this season and then beyond. Uh, yeah, let's get some Rick Dollywall audio out there on Brock Besser and here's his latest update on the situation. Contract talks have not been close the last few weeks, but I was told this morning that don't rule anything out, including the Canucks resigning Besser at the deadline. That's when deals get done.

I don't know if the Canucks made Besser a new and improved contract lately, but more than one person has told me not to rule out Besser resigning of Vancouver. Term has always been the issue. It's the number one concern from the Canucks side with Besser. How long can you commit to a 28 year old Don? How long can you commit? Canucks are 25th in the NHL in scoring. They had Sherwood and O'Connor in the top six last night and in Vegas. They're not top six players. I don't care what you say. Besser and Debris are the only legit top six wingers the Vancouver Canucks

have. The Canucks when they came out of nowhere to sign JT Miller and Kevin Lankanen, when this regime decides to sign a player, Donnie, they'll get it done if they want to. So this is obviously a huge decision for, for the Canucks, but also for Brock Besser, who has a big say in this. Um, and Besser has talked about this. In fact, he was quoted in the province

recently saying, I've already said how much I love it here and I'm more than willing to come back. We'll see if we can figure something out. Obviously I'd love to resign, but if that's not the case, I'll go to unrestricted free agency and I'll be just fine. That's made me less stressed and just focusing on helping the team win.

So Besser knows he's going to get paid. He knows there's going to be people that are interested in signing him. The cap is going up. It's not like he's going to be out there. It's like, nobody wants me. Right. Um, there's two things I worry about when it

comes to Besser. First is his age and it feels a little unfortunate on his birthday to be talking about his age as kind of a negative, but he does turn 28 today. So are you comfortable giving a 28 year old seven or eight years? It sounds like the Canucks are not. According to Dolly Wall, term is an issue.

The other is his speed. The Canucks, we've talked about this already, need a few more burners in the top six. And it would be nice if they were burners with, that aren't just like, well, Drew O'Connor can get in on the four check or Kiefer Sherwood can get in on the four check. Like guys that can create offensively,

not just, you know, pile drive the defensemen through the boards. Yep. Um, they are lacking burst at the moment of the guys you look at right now in their top six, you like Heedle's speed, but you don't know if he can hang as a top six center in this league. Uh, Debrusk has good straight line speed.

I don't consider him one of those guys like, look at him, he's dancing out there, right? Like he's creating, he's creating out there. He's got great hands. He's great around the net. Straight line speed is good, but they need more, you know, what we've been talking about for a while now, they just need more jump.

Now typically it comes from your centres, that creativity, but it can come from the wing. Um, that being said, those things that I worry about, uh, you know what else I worry about? Uh, scoring goals. Yeah. Uh, they already can't score. So how are they going to not only replace

Besser if they trade him, but then add even more scoring. It's kind of like the Bruins losing Jake DeBrusk last season. I'm sure there was some Bruins fans were like, yeah, we can replace his scoring. Well, they haven't. Right. And he only had 19 goals for them last season.

I was going to say, it's not like he was a bona fide sniper in Boston and they're still missing him. But they're like, we'd love those 19 goals. It would be great to have that. Um, so maybe some of Besser's production could be replaced internally. Uh, Lekkeramaki is, is ripping up in the AHL.

We all know that, but he needs to get bigger and stronger and the Canucks are going to be patient with him. He needs to be put in a position to succeed. If you say Lekkeramacky replace Brock Besser right now, he's going to fail. It, Brock Besser plays a very mature NHL game. He's been in the league for a while.

If you put him on the Canucks top line, I think, I don't know, I don't think you're putting him in a position to succeed right now. You know, there are other guys that can bounce back. Maybe Holglinder, if they keep him, he can bounce back. We've talked about Dakota Joshua, get a full off season of, of get into shape. Um, you know, he had a, sometimes when you start

the season, like Dakota Joshua did, uh, and I'm not even talking about like the cancer diagnosis, which psychologically and mentally must've been something that he had to overcome, but also just physically, like this is a, this is a big dude. Right. And when you miss training camp and you miss the beginning of the season, sometimes you just never,

you've never, you haven't hit the ground running, so you never find your group. So maybe he can bounce back. Otherwise you're looking at, at free agency to replace Brock Besser. Or trades. Or trades, yeah.

In free agency, Rantonin is going to be the big fish. If he makes it to July 1st and he's going to cost a boatload, uh Marner I imagine is going to resign in Toronto, right? Like, I don't know. Maybe a realistic target. If you think Rantanen is going to be too expensive or Mitch Marner is not even going to be

available. Like a guy like Nick Ehlers out of Winnipeg, he's got good wheels, so maybe he could be targeted if they want to upgrade their speed. It's tough though, because Ehlers probably isn't going to take a discount to play in Vancouver. And like, why would he? With Besser, there is reason to believe he might leave some money on the table because

he wants to be here. The question I suppose is how much money is he willing to forgo and how reasonable in his negotiations with all the leverage that he's got with his track record, with the fact that he's well liked, the fact that he's still in his 20s. There's probably some team out there that's be like, yeah, we'll give you seven years.

No, no problem. So how, how willing is he to be reasonable with the Canucks or give them a discount, especially considering the situation that Canucks are in right now. It's not like they're right on the verge of winning a Stanley Cup or anything. I don't think the Canucks are all that

interested in bringing them back. I think the die was cast five months ago. Remember that interview that Patrick Alveen had with Thomas Drance in the athletic when they were talking about expectations coming into this season. You remember the line that Alveen had for Besser? Or is it, you know, what was your off season message to Brock? And it was that he scored 40 goals last year, but I told him that he could have, could

have scored 50. I felt he took his foot off the gas when he scored 30. I remember thinking at the time, like that's a crazy thing to say about a guy that scored 40 goals that when he comes in after the best season of his NHL career and puts up 40 for your team, your response is, yeah, I thought you could have had 50.

Do you think it's that surfer dude mentality? Like he's the rare surfer dude from Minnesota. Not a lot of, not a lot of, there's quite a lot of lakes there. A lot of water. Yeah. Surf on it. I don't know.

I don't know how water works. Not a lot of waves coming in on those lakes. Not how lakes work. But he's got that kind of laid back mentality. And I wonder if sometimes that gets taken the wrong way is lacking intensity. I just don't think he's. It's gotta be inconsistency as well, right? Like that's part of the message.

Like he gets 41 year, 18 the next, like he's all over the place. Well, he's got 18 through 50 games this year. He's probably gonna. Yeah, he's doing all this year. I bet he ends up reasonably close to 30. What I'm saying is though. Most goal scorers have that though.

He's got that wave thing though, right? Like maybe that's part of their issue with him. It's like they sign him this eight year deal and you don't know what you're going to get from him next year. Well, they gave Jake Nebraska big contract and he had 19 goals last season. That's true.

Look, I think that he- Wasn't close to what Besser is going to get though. No. I think there's two things here. I don't think he fits the particular playing profile that they want out of a winger moving forward. And I think that goes back to what you were saying

about foot speed and you know and straight line skating ability. I also think that they're not all that worried about shaking up the core and the chemistry of this team. Cause if you've, I don't know if you've noticed, but there have been some pretty major moves already in moving out. I mean, go through the list already, like Bo Horvat no longer here, JT Miller no longer here, then start going through the

rest of the core guys and identifying them as, oh you know are these guys gonna be here long term? I'm not so sure. And this is meant- If anything they want to improve the chemistry. This is meant, no I think it's changing it up. Why has there been dysfunction? Yeah. A little bit. Have there been rocky times? I think

and let me preface this by saying I think Besser deserves a big lucrative long-term contract and I don't think he's gonna get it here but I think that the player for everything that he's done and everything he's gone through and the way that he bounced back last year, the way that he conducts himself, all of it. He's a great guy. And I think he's been a fantastic player in hitting 40 last year, which is a very, very tough thing

to do in the National Hockey League. And played well in the playoffs. Was great in the playoffs. What would you say are the odds he's moved on the deadline? Oh, Halfords seems to think it's pretty likely. I think if they don't move them at the deadline and they do that thing, which they said they wouldn't do, which is you let an asset walk for nothing.

Oh, they won't. So Elliott Ladner texted in, if they treat Brock as a rental and let him walk for nothing, knowing how lean our prospect pool is, that would be an utter failure, that is not going to happen. However. That is not going to happen. My confidence in this management group is shaken

right now. So how does that play out? Because of the Pedersen contract? The Pedersen contract, the fact that we are now talking about how many deals have they sort of reneged on where they're like, we signed the deal, now we have to quickly clean it up because it's gone south. Maybe they're not, you know, they could fumble this right which is like when Homer was in charge of the Union yeah

negotiate everybody was oh god I'll be spinning on the floor yeah he wants his burrito right I don't I don't know I you got a you're gonna I mean you've heard me talk about this management group in very glowing terms through the first 16, 20 months on the job. Thought they did a tremendous job. Now some fractures are starting to show. That gets fair, right? Yeah.

Pedersen has the potential to be the biggest fumble in executive history. If you want to talk about major blunders that a management group has made over the 50 plus years of the Vancouver Canucks, the Pedersen contract, which is the most lucrative contract in franchise history, might end up being the worst. Might end up being the biggest anchor that

any management group has ever, and because, because they strong arm to a certain degree and forced the entire thing to happen. I started reading about Ben Simmons yesterday and totally freaking myself out. What, do you want to go down that road? Not really. It's a scary road to go down.

If you don't know the Ben. I freaked myself. If you don't know the Ben. We've talked about the Ben Simmons story a little bit on the show. I don't know how many people understand like what Ben Simmons is or what he represents or what he was in the NBA.

So Ben Simmons is six foot 10 Australian, and he was a point guard. He was this huge physical specimen that came out of LSU, was the number one pick overall in the NBA draft. And in the early stages of his career, looked like he was really gonna be something. He won defensive player of the year one year, is a three time NBA all star. Ben Simmons looked like he was going to be a

real talented player. There was just one problem. He couldn't shoot the basketball. And he got scared to shoot. He couldn't shoot it from the free throw line. He couldn't shoot it during a game. And then it got in his head and it became more and more problematic because now I don't know

how much you guys know about basketball out there, but shooting the basketball, pretty key part of playing basketball. Yeah. Some would say it's like one of the most important things you can do is shoot the ball and then have it go in the hoop. I know this is very advanced analysis, but you know, that's what we're going to go here. We're going to try it. And look, Pettersson once had an amazing shot. so there's a difference between Benzeman's there, but ultimately it became just like he totally

lost all confidence in his shot and it kind of hit. Rock bottom. Like it hit rock bottom in the playoffs when he had an easy, well, it wasn't easy. He was underneath the basket. They call it a bunny. It's a little like three foot jumper. Yeah, yeah.

It was just kind of popping in. But like there's two things, like he might've gotten fouled and he didn't want to go to the free throw line. So he kicked it out and that's really when I was like, wait a minute, is this guy, is he in the NBA and he's scared to shoot? And then in the aftermath, they asked his head

coach, Doc Rivers, if you could be a championship NBA team with Ben Simmons playing point guard. And Doc responded, I don't even know how to answer that question right now. And then everything collapsed, confidence, relationship with the team, everything. And Ben Simmons is now a shell of what he once was.

Yeah. Anyway, let's not go down. We've gone down a little bit of that road. Went down the road. Let's not go back. I was chuckling a little bit because I know a lot of Philadelphia Flyers fans, because they don't have a one C, they're like, let's get Pedersen.

I'm like, okay, that could be interesting. We got a text into the Dunbar Lumber text line and I think this kind of makes the point that I was trying to make and in just a few words, we need someone to push the defense back. What a great way to put it. You know, that type of forward, that type of winger, when he picks up the puck, the other team's defense

is like, gap control, gap control, gap control, right? Who do they have right now that can do that? Like I don't think like, again, Jake DeBrasque has good wheels. He has good speed. I don't think we see a situation where he picks up the pocket, say the Canucks blue line. And the crowd is like, Oh, here we go.

It might be here. We go, maybe a little bit. That's also fast. When he does pick up a puck, you see the D go, Oh, got to move. But we're also like. But on the wings? Might be, maybe? Like it's not a slam dunk.

Like possibly it could be him. Maybe, brackets possibly, I don't know. And maybe it comes with, and I have hope. I mean, he's only 25 years old and let's face it, the reason that he hasn't played top six centre is just because he was blocked out of that. Yeah. In New York. So the hope is that he can become that player, but I think they need more of it on the

wings as well. I'm already on the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey reference page, trying to figure out who's next to come to Vancouver. I got a lot of wingers there. Unfortunately, they're all old. Yeah. Can I interest you in a slightly used Ricard

Raquel, maybe an even more used Brian Rust who's by the way, he's a point game player this year practically. No, don't look, I think there's another question too, has this management group extrapolated all there is to take out of Pittsburgh? Like at this point you can't do it anymore, right? Yeah, there's only one more player I want out of

Pittsburgh. There's only one, maybe I'd have time for Gino Malkin, just as a fun thought experiment. It would never happen. But if you want to get faster, you're not getting Gino. No. I want to read some texts into the Dunbar Lumber text line, um, regarding Besser, which is spelled

Bowser. How can a team that has trouble scoring goals, let a 30 goal scorer who wants to be here depart? Did that, that, that, that. Sorry, wasn't that text sent from Bowser? I don't know. I think it might've been. He's talking about Besser, but I think the

texter was Bowser. He's talking about Brock Bowser. I think he's talking about Brock Bowser. How can a team that has trouble scoring goals let a 30 plus goal scorer who wants to be here depart and who wants to be here is the value proposition in this. God, I sounded like Drance there, right?

Yeah, you did. Because. I didn't care for it. I didn't care for it either. I get what you're, I get what you're saying. Can I strike it from the record? No, it's too late. I get what he's saying.

That's a totally valid argument. Cause if he's willing to leave some money on the table, then you know, you're, you're in theory getting a below market contract. Well, that's the only way they resign him, right? Is he would have to take some sort of a discount. I don't even think. Well, it shouldn't be, it almost like, it doesn't

necessarily have to be the only reason they resign him. It could be, even if he says I'll take market value, number one, he wants to be here. You can be interested in Rantanen, you can be interested in Nick Ehlers. It doesn't mean they he wants to be here. You can be interested in Ranton and you can be interested in Nick Ehlers, it doesn't mean they're going to sign here. There's many other teams out there and there's

going to be a lot of cap space available to sign these guys. So if they do trade him at the deadline, for all the criticism that we can have of this management group, usually they've planned the next step. When you think about when they traded JT Miller, they had already planned to use the futures in that deal to get Marcus Pedersen.

Yeah. And they had already planned with, when they traded Horvat, like I'm pretty sure they'd have conversations with Detroit about Horonic. Yeah. Already, you know? So if they do do that with Besser, I wonder if they've got something in mind already in terms of

a player who might be maybe a little younger, maybe a little faster, maybe doesn't have the full resume that Brock Besser has, but there's growth potential there. Or trade him and then sign him as a UFA. Why does everyone always bring that up? Like the abs with Brandon. When does that?

Yeah, it never happens. It never happens. It would be funny though. I go back to what- It gets happened once or twice. I go back to what I said earlier. Am I, am I, did my read on this situation way off or was that what Alveen said earlier, am I, did my read on this situation weigh off or was that what Al Bean

said going into this season, not maybe the biggest indicator of what this organization thinks about the player and his future in Vancouver? You know, I don't think you're, I don't think you're off. Yeah. But I also think that beggars can't be choosers. But if they've made up their mind.

It's possible. They have. That's what I'm saying. It's possible they have, but we keep hearing from Rick Dollywell, like this isn't over yet. Sure. And if they're having conversations, then I imagine there's still some interest in there, but it might be like, we're interested if the number is like ridiculously low.

Yeah. You know? And who wouldn't be at that point? Of course. Right? Of course. I mean, I just look at it. I remember, all I remember thinking at that

time was I'm like, that is a wild thing to say about a guy that just went out and gave you the best goal scoring season of his career, all of which has been spent in Vancouver. That you're saying you took your foot off the gas at 30 and I thought you could have had 50. To me, that says a lot, maybe more than any of these other reports are going to say, but who knows?

Things do have a way of changing. And with this management group, again, when you talk about things have a way of changing, I doubt that at the beginning of the year, they expected they'd be trading JT Miller halfway through it. So who knows what's gonna happen, right? Anything could. I just think that their mind might already be made up on Besser. Anyway, we gotta get to break. We got a lot more to get into on the Haliford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650. Landon Ferraro is gonna join us next. At 8.30, we're gonna do what we learns. Get yours in, Dunbar Lumber Text Line is 650 650.

Let us know what you learned over the last 24 hours in sports, hashtag it WWL and send it in to the Dunbar Lumber Text Message in Basket. Don't forget, at 8.15 this morning, we are giving away not one, but two pairs of tickets to see Neil Young and the Chrome Hearts, the Love Earth Tour this September, September 6th at Deer Lake Park.

We're giving away two pairs of tickets. Caller number one and caller number seven at 815 this morning will win each a pair of tickets to see Neil Young this September at Deer Lake Park. The phone number is 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650. We'll be doing that at 815 this morning, so be sure to call in. You are listening to the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.