Halford & Brough in the Morning - Rick Tocchet Left His Heart In Philadelphia

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with NBC Sports Philly's Jordan Hall (1:21) about the Flyers hiring Rick Tocchet as their next head coach, they discuss if a Canucks coaching change might help EP40 (20:00), plus the boys try to do some What We Learnds but it ends up just being about Elias Pettersson (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

7.02 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. Thrash Thursday here on the Halifax and Brough Show on Sports 106.50. Yeah, this song is what happened to the Leafs last night. What's it called? Pound Your Face All Night. All Night Face Pound.

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We are now in our two the program Jordan Hall from NBC Sports in Philly is gonna join us in just a moment here to talk A little Rick Tocket new head coach to the Flyers In case you missed it our two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominuk at Jason.mortgage If you love giving the banks more your money then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you banks more your money then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you visit him online at Jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. Our next guest comes courtesy the hotline which is powered by Power West

Industries Jordan Hall from Philadelphia here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning Jordan how are you? Good morning guys I'm doing well how are you? We morning, guys. I'm doing well. How are you? We're good. Thanks for taking the time to do this. We appreciate it. So Rick Tauke is in as the new head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers. I think a lot of people saw this coming, but it was made official yesterday. I did notice something with a lot of the takeaways from the various media outlets that cover this Philadelphia Flyers team.

And the narrative seemed to be that this isn't just because Rick Tocket used to be a Flyer and is beloved by the Philly faithful that it goes beyond that that even if he wasn't Necessarily a Flyers legend Rick Tocket still would have been in serious consideration for this head coaching job and their number one choice Why do you think things have taken this narrative turn Jordan? I? Do agree with that narrative too. I listen. Does being a former flyer help? Sure.

He's got previous connections to the front office. He played with Danny Breyer, the GM. He played with Keith Jones, the president. So that pre-existing relationship definitely helped. And I think it appealed to the flyers. But Rick Hawking, I think the good coach. I mean, he was a coach of the year last year as you guys know you know 51 Cs and 109 points and I think what really appealed to the Flyers was that he can develop young players and he'll find a

really good balance I think between hard and demanding but also lean in and allowing some leash for young players to play to their strengths. And I think the Flyers needed that. They have a young team. They're only going to be getting younger. And then I also think Tauke had a good reputation around the league. So when the Flyers are ready to, I think, add free agents and try to attract players to Philadelphia again, they haven't been able to do that in a while.

When they are, I think they feel Tauke will be a coach guys want to play for. And I think that went a long way as well. You look at the Flyers and you look at their goals against, and it was one of the worst in the NHL. Was that like 90% goaltending or are there defensive issues that can be fixed in Philadelphia? Because that's the one thing he can hang his hat on here in Vancouver. He fixed the defensive issues. Some say at the cost of the offense, but the Canucks were a disaster defensively before he arrived and he really did

teach them a lot about structure. I do think Cogut will help them with structure. I do think the Flyers had that under John Tortorello. That was kind of his staple was defense first. He really implemented that early and then they started incorporating more offense in Tortorello's tenure down the line. A lot of it was goal tending. There's just no denying it. Last season they had the league worst save percentage. The year before that they were tied for the league worst mark. Ever since they lost Carter Hart because of the hockey Canada sexual assault case, their goaltending really struggled. And they had guys that were kind of playing

earlier than they should have been playing in different roles. Samuel Ayrson, I think is a really good one beat. He had to be kind of pushed into the number one role suddenly and I think he wore down with the games that piled up and they never really had a consistent backup. So a lot of it's on goal pending and that's a position I think they really need to focus

on this off season. I think they're going to try to be aggressive and fix that a little bit because I just don't think they can continue with the goal pending that they've had. Some of it was I think structural issues that I think target will address but a lot of it was, I think structural issues that I think Tocket will address, but a lot of it was goaltending, no doubt. So this is a question we've kicked around. And when we started wondering if Tocket would go to the flyers, which he did, um, what are the expectations for this season?

I think that's the biggest question everyone has. And I think Danny Brer will have to answer that throughout this all season is how much better do they want to get in year one under Rick Tocket because They really hit rock bottom this season Brayer even used that term when they fired John Tortorella He said this is rock bottom for us. Do they want to get better? But how much better can they get? I'm not quite sure yet. I think it's too early in the off season to tell. I think the Flyers have a chance to really be aggressive this off season with the assets that they have to get better.

So I think we'll know, I'll say in late July, August with the roster, how much better they can get. But they have seven picks in the first two rounds of this draft. I think they have a chance to use those picks to potentially add via trade. They're going to have more money. Uh, and so I think they could, uh, go the free agency route a little bit to help their roster. But I do think talk gets brought in to make them better significantly

because the pressure is starting to build a little bit in Philadelphia. I think the patients are starting to wane a little bit. They've gone five seasons without the playoffs and that matches the franchise as long as you're out. So I think people are starting to get a little tired of hearing about rebuild and they want to see a little bit more progress. And I think Danny Breyer realizes that. And I think pocket to being the type of coach he is.

She's going to want to make them better. It's not going to be okay. With finishing in the bottom five, six of the standings and drafting high again. It's gonna wanna see progress. And I think Toggot has a chance, but I think it really will depend on what Brie'er does this all season to help the roster.

How much of the Flyers fan base even remembers Rick Togget as a player for the Flyers? And is there any disconnect between those who do and those who don't? That's a great question and it's a funny point because I think it's very true I think there's a section of the fans that grew up with Rick Tocket and love Rick Tocket and they remember his team that came Oh so close to winning a Stanley Cup here. They ran into a dynasty in the Oilers and Tocket was a great Flyer He he had a unique blend of like goal scoring and fighting. I don't think you see that as much anymore but he could fight and he could really score goals

and the city fell in love with him. There's the section of fans that are a little bit younger that never saw him play and probably only know him for his coaching and his coaching resume is not out of this world. He coached the Coyotes team for four years. Um, he doesn't have rich experience. That's why I think some of the younger fans that didn't really watch him play, they see his resume and they're not super excited and they, they kind of think he's just the former flyer.

So there's definitely a bit of a error down there through the middle of fans who love him and fans who don't really think much of him. Um, I think talking will have a lot to prove to the people that maybe don't remember him from his playing days. And I think he liked that challenge. I think it bothers him that he never won here. He's won three cups with the rival penguins and he never won here. And I think he considers this his home, his NHL home. And I think he's going to be pretty determined to try to prove he can be a winner here.

Yeah, that 87 cup final was one of the best finals ever. They just came up a little bit short. I want to talk a little bit more about the fan base. Is there a disconnect between maybe some of the older fans that want to get back to the Broad Street bullies and maybe some of the younger fans who say we gotta move on past that era. It's not that era in the NHL anymore. Maybe they're a little more analytically inclined and they see guys like John Tortorella and Rick Taukett as being old school coaches. I do think that perception is out there that John Tortorella was was old school and Rick Tuckett's old school as well. I don't think it's as real as some people think it is. I think the majority of fans, even the older ones that probably watched the Broad Street Bullies,

I think they know where the game is going and I think they understand that Rick Tuckett is more than just a former flyer and that guy that's just going to coach, dump and chase him and be hard on pucks. And like he's going to allow for some skill. I think he knows today's game. But yeah, there's a little bit of, I think of that within the fan base, but I do think the flyers have adjusted. I, they really don't consider themselves the Broad Street Bullies anymore. They, they don't want to forget that and they still want to remember their tradition.

I think they've done a good job of not ignoring their past and understanding why their past was great and why fans connected with it. But also understanding what today's game is and what they need to do and not always going for it every single year. Understanding they want to build a contender for multiple years and not try to get too caught up in one playoff run. Like kind of like the past Flyers did, and they were always competitive,

but it didn't always result in cups. And sometimes it set their future back. So I really do think the Flyers are finding a good balance of both understanding their tradition and not forgetting it, but also understanding the importance of today's game and having a grasp of that and not losing sight of that. We're speaking to Jordan Hall from NBC Sports Philadelphia

here on the Halford & Breff show on Sportsnet 650, discussing the news that Rick Tauke is the new head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers, doing a bit of reading yesterday, Jordan. And it became pretty apparent that Danny Breyer didn't necessarily think that his team was as bad as the standings reflected last season, where they were essentially a bottom five team,

and probably one of, if not the worst defensive teams in hockey in terms of goals allowed. Now, a lot of that had to do with goaltending, and if Breyer didn't openly acknowledge it, it was sort of implied in some of his remarks. My question is, is it imperative for him to go out and get a goalie this summer? Because one of the things that coincided with Rick Tuckett's

best year in Vancouver was the fact that he had a Vezna nominated netminder in Thatcher Demko that did a lot of the heavy lifting when it came to keeping pucks out of the back of the net. So are the Flyers gonna go out and get a goalie? Is that like on the top of the to-do list? Do they need to believe in the guys that they have in-house? I do think that will be at the top of the to-do list because not only are the

goaltending issues hurting the flyers currently in wins and losses, but I think it could set back their rebuild. Like if you're, if the flyers are all about having a really good environment for development and hoping that they're developing young players here for the future, goaltending can set it back to if they're not helping their players that are playing in front of the goalie and giving them, you know, a good chance to win games and feel confident about themselves. I think it can help.

They can hurt development, too. And I don't want to pin it all on goaltending. Like Samuel Ayrson is not a bad goaltender he you know in a tandem he can be really good they but they just haven't had the personnel that they've needed and they they tried to go to in-house route with some younger guys some inexperienced it just hasn't worked the last two two seasons or less season and a half once Carter Hart had to take a leave. So I do feel like they, they know they knew they need to address it this all season.

They had the resources. I think they had the assets to do it. Um, so I do think they know they have to go the outside route. Uh, they, I don't think they'll forget some of the young pieces they have. Uh, in their, in their process pool and go attending, they have a couple of guys I think they like like but they're not there yet and they value this season I think the front office so they're gonna need to go out and get go attending I do think that's right really close to the top of the to-do list for the Flyers for

Danny Breyer. Hey Jordan I've got a conspiracy theory that I'm gonna I'm gonna run by you because it's going around in Vancouver that the Flyers, remember when the Flyers, of course you do, when they fired torts and everyone was like, that's kind of weird timing. There's a theory here that that was a signal to Rick Tauke, hey, don't sign an extension with the Canucks. First of all, what do you think about that conspiracy theory? And when do you think they started targeting Rick Tocket? You know what? That is really interesting. I never thought about that, but that would make sense. I mean,

a lot of people wondered why do it with nine games left, like just play out the string. Now I will say it had gotten pretty bad here. Like they were, they were really it had gotten pretty bad here. Like they were really in a bad, bad funk. And I think things just started to get a little contentious between Tortorella and the Flyers. I think it just became time. So I don't want to pin it all on like, hey, let's try to lure Tachik, let's try to get him out of Vancouver. But I certainly don't think that hurt. And that wouldn't surprise me. Like if anything, it gave them a head start. And I'm not sure if they were seriously looking at coaches yet. Danny Breyer said at the end of the season that they didn't even have a short list

yet and they hadn't interviewed anyone yet. So they played the final nine games I think without seriously going after coaches. But I do think it gave them the head start in terms of maybe looking to see what they wanted and yes, probably to show some coaches that were maybe on the market or would potentially lose their jobs eventually that, Hey, the fires have an opening and we're going to be looking for a coach and we have a situation that we think coaches could be interested in. And it sure seemed like pocket wanted to come back to the eastern part of the United States. Jim Rutherford even said that. So I got to think once Tuckett knew the flyers were available,

maybe his mind went there a little bit. So I wouldn't rule that out. That's really interesting that you say that because I think it's possible. I think Taked did his best to go and talk to any other teams and be like, Seattle, I'll take an interview with you. And then, oh, I just, I decided Philadelphia. It was always going to be Philly, wasn't it, Rick? Yeah. Well, and I found it interesting too, that it started to come out a little bit in the media that, hey, he might be interested in doing TV again.

Like, was he really interested in doing TV or was it more just kind of a, uh, a bargaining chip of being like, Hey, Rick's kind of thinking TV. So you want to really give him a good, uh, a good pit to get him to come here and maybe up the ante a little bit, because I'm not sure if he was really serious about going back into TV. Jordan, this was great, man. Thanks for taking the time to do this today. We really appreciate it. Enjoy what should be an interesting off season in Philadelphia and enjoy working with Rick Tuckett. He was always great to deal with from a media perspective here in Vancouver. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

And thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. That's Jordan Hall from NBC Sports Philadelphia here on the Halford and Bref Show on Sportsnet 650. So I know I kind of reiterated what Jordan was talking about with the goaltending, but I did want to hammer it home because to me, as we follow, and I think we're going to probably follow pretty closely year one of the Rick Tauke and experience in Philadelphia,

I don't see how they're going to be significantly better unless they make some major, underlying three times major roster upgrades specifically in goal. If you actually look under the hood with the Flyers, if you go to natural statric, which I know you go to every day. I love natural statric. And you look at their expected goals against,

they're actually pretty impressive. That's what I'm saying. And then you go to the actual goals against, and that is less impressive, which is why I said to Jordan early in the interview, I was like, is that like 90% goaltending, or is there something that Rick Tauett can do where he goes in there? And then remember when, when he took over from

Bruce Boudreaux, the Canucks were playing a more of a loosey goosey style. Sure. And maybe that was good for some players and they were piling up points, but it wasn't good for the overall team and it made it harder on the goalies. It was just, it was not the right system.

Now you, I have time for the over team and it made it harder on the goalies. It was just, it was not the right system. Now you, I have time for the over-corrected on that for sure. Um, but you know, if, if, if talk, it's going into that situation and he's like, Oh, you guys already play pretty well structurally. Torch did a good job with that. I guess it's just the goaltending. Well, that's what I'm getting at. It gives him, That gives him less. When he inherited.

It gives him less ability to make a big impact early on. Look, right now, Rick Tauke is lined up theoretically to win another Jack Adams because he's taken over a bad team and he's got the opportunity to have that one year turnaround, which gets you the Jack Adams. That's kind of how it's won. Right. Let's be honest. The Jack Adams is either given to a coach that takes a good team and makes them great. Like they're a president's trophy winner and they're a hundred and thirty point team. Or you take a lousy team and you turn them into a playoff team, like a fringe playoff team. Or in the case of the Vancouver Canucks, they're really big jump.

So everything is set. And I understand why I talk and went went there not just because of the Philadelphia angle But the expectations are about as low as you can get in Philadelphia because they stunk last year They had 76 points. They were bottom five team in the NHL. They bled goals like crazy The thing is the team inherited from Boudreaux is exactly what you said It was a team that had zero structure and was bleeding goals like crazy because of it. But you know what that team had? Thatcher Demko. It was almost as if someone looked at it

and said, wait a minute, with a Vezna caliber goalie and a better environment in front of them, maybe we can turn into a pretty good defensive team and quickly. When you go to Philadelphia. Do you remember that realization at some point? It was like, wait a minute,

the Cucks are good defensively. This is crazy. And it reminded me of when Trotz went to the Islanders. And it was a big shift in terms of the eyeball and the statistical test. Now, go to Philadelphia. You brought up a really interesting point there for once about looking under the hood

and looking at their expected goals. How much more are you really gonna tighten up that group in terms of structure and accountability and discipline? Because it's not like they're running around bleeding chances and saying, Hey, you know what, we're going to do a little dangle at the blue line here. And if we turn the puck over, it's no big deal. They don't do that. They, if you don't go out and supply him with a goalie, he kind of runs into the same problems that torts ran into this year and quite frankly,

burnt torts out by the end because he knew at a certain point, no matter how hard he coached and how much discipline and structure he put into that team, they were probably going to lose because they couldn't keep the puck out of their own net. And that's where I think the target dynamic is gonna be really interesting this year, because this is fundamentally different than the Vancouver job when he inherited it. Here's a good question from Irf in Vancouver. Would you rather have the forward group in Philly or Vancouver?

I am inclined to think that the forward group in Philadelphia is better. Well, in Philly, you got guys like, well, Mitch Gough, young player in Philly. You've got Travis Koneckny, Owen Tippett, Sean Couturier, who is, you know, his best years are definitely behind him. The question is, what forward group would you want? I'd probably say Philadelphia, because that's how low Vancouver's is right now. Vancouver's is one of the worst in the NHL right now. Put it this way, Robert Travis Koneckny be on the

Vancouver Canucks step chart of forward, would he be their best forward right away? Well, he'd be on the first line for sure. So any B, maybe their best forward, if not their second best forward. Now it all depends if Elias Pedersen bounces back. So much depends on whether Elias Pedersen bounces back to the point where, you know, I know people's eyes just

glaze over when I say the name, but it's not going to change anything. And this is why I wonder if Adam Foote has a different idea on how to get through to Pedersen. Um, Ian McIntyre had a tweet yesterday that kind of came out of nowhere. And I don't know if this is just iMac. Like here's a thought.

Okay. Or if this was an informed tweet, but he just said, and for those who think Rick Tauket was too hard on Elias Pedersen, don't expect Adam Foote to be any less demanding or insistent on accountability. Are there people out there that think that Tocket was too hard on Pedersen? Yes, many. Like that's crazy to me.

That is absolutely wild. And also his coaching style was not able to mesh with Pedersen's play. So suffering. I'm more surprised that you're surprised by this. So when Tocket, like I thought it was more just like their styles don't mesh as opposed to being too hard, right? And the whole reprogramming thing and the dumping

it in and everything. So when Pedersen would double clutch with the puck and he'd defer, defer, defer, and he pass off and he never even looked like he was ready to shoot, how do your brains that want to blame Tauke for anything, explain that? Was that, was that Elias Pettersson going, oh yeah, my coach doesn't want me to shoot in this

situation. Tauke didn't give him the confidence to succeed. The confidence. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. You didn't give him the confidence. There is something between that, making it black and white, like he was either too overbearing or I don't agree with that

But I'm just saying okay That's the narrative but Ruben had something interesting during this series when he was talking about Willie Nylander when Nylander was going He said I don't talk to him and then he said when Nylander is not going he's like I don't talk to me He's like he's a guy that wants to be left alone. So I leave him alone now. I'm not saying that that's applicable in every scenario, but there is something about grinding a guy down to a nub. When we and you heard talk it speaking about I can't count the number of meetings that I had with Elias Pettersson, right?

At a certain point, every parent out there right now is probably nodding along. They're like, yeah, at a certain point, you're just spinning your wheels. Like you've had the 10th meeting and you're already booking the 11th meeting and You know that the 11th meeting is not gonna have any more impact than the 10th But you're doing it anyway, so you're saying brew bae's just gotta leave him alone. Let him do his thing Ruby. Sorry Fudge look needs to leave just like brew bae did with Neelander foot needs to do the same with peterson I'm alone as much as I love the inherent sports talk radio idea of like it has to be one I learned a tad more swagger than Elias Pederson.

Yeah, they're different players. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not black and white, but I think it's important to introduce a lot of different layers and facets to it because I don't think it's as black and white. And to be honest, I've hated the way that this coaching thing has turned out

where it's like Foot is the anti-pedie guy Whereas Manny would have been the pedie guy. I'm like like where did I hold sure like what did that come from? Superstar Manny mojo. Just dreaming stuff up at this point here making it up as you go along to fit some you know What it is it's like people people look at Manny mojo and see it say like he looks like a nice guy Probably you know he's a nice guy. He's not he? He's a nice guy. Maybe he'd be nicer to Pedersen. There's a certain percentage of the fan base that will blame everybody but Pedersen. It's just, that's how they're wired,

that's how they see it. You won't be able to convince them otherwise, and Petey can do nothing wrong, and he'll be fine. That's fine, but I also think there's so, I also, here's the thing. After last season season whatever approach Talking in peterson had to the job collectively. I think universally everyone can say that it didn't work right if it's a if it's a

Two-pronged approach where both people are equally responsible for the relations just the relationship I think it's fair to suggest that whatever approach both of them took collectively and what both brought to the table, combined it didn't work. Pederson wasn't happy, didn't play well, didn't love his season. Tocket wasn't happy, didn't love his season and left. That much is fair to say. So hindsight being 20-20,

there should have been a different approach at some point. They never found that common ground. And at the end, it's probably not the worst thing that they parted ways in that, in terms of that relationship. No, I agree. Now, I'm sort of so with Adam foot is going to have to completely re-imagine it. That's a fair. That's a fair assessment is that he's going to have to look at this and say, you should go over to Sweden and be like, you know, I didn't like talk at

either kind of a jerk. He wasn't a nice guy. Big bully. I'm with you. OK, we got a lot more to get to on the program. We've now hit the midway point, which means it's time for One to Watch, brought to you by Delaney's OK Tire. Tonight's One to Watch is Washington Capital's goalie, Logan Thompson.

See, we spent a lot of time talking about the goalies in the other series that could end tonight. Connor Hellebuck and the Jets look to stave off elimination this evening against Jake Ottinger and the Stars. So let's take a look at Logan Thompson, who has one thing very much in common with Hellebuck this postseason. Thompson has been great at home and less than great on the road. Shout out to our guy, Sean Gentile from the athletic, who threw this stat out there in the five playoff games at Capital One Arena,

the home of the Washington Capitals. Thompson has a 9.54 save percentage and 10.6 goals saved above expected. On the road, an 8.72 save percentage and 4.5 goals above expected. The good news for Washington, of course, tonight, while they look to stave off elimination is that they are at home, down three one in the series

with a chance to push it to six. It's time now for your Toyo tires whether you drive a car, light truck or van. Toyo tires are designed to perform in all kinds of conditions. Visit Delaney's OK tire in Langley and Aldergrove. OK tire service repair and tires. You're listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Hey it's Vic Nazar. Have your say and join me on the People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets, weekdays 3 Brush Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford & Bref

of the morning is brought to you by Sands & Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit them online at Sands-Trustee.com. We are in hour two of the program. We're at the midway point of the show. Hour two of this program is brought to you by hominidic of Jason dot mortgage The most metal of all the mortgage brokers if you love paying too much for your mortgage Then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you visit him online at Jason dot mortgage So I got a question for you. I'm gonna put you on the spot, which is sometimes dangerous, but you do it all the time. Yeah Why But you do it all the time. Yeah. Why have players like Marner and Matthews

been unable to succeed in the pressure moments? They're weak-minded. Selfish. Selfish. So we didn't get into this with Sam McKee from Fan 590 in Toronto. We had him on the show in hour one. Download the podcast.

It's a great chat. What do you mean we didn't get into it? That's a question I asked him right off the bat. Let me finish, let me finish. We didn't get into this with Sam McKee, Fan 590 in Toronto, download hour one on the podcast if you love Schadenfreude, because it is some great bathing in the tears

of the Toronto Maple Leafs. We didn't get into this on their show the other day. They were talking about Marner. And I think Matthew's more specifically because of his sort of unique route to the National Hockey League. And they said, at times, it seems as though these guys grew up in a hockey environment where they never played or participated in a big stakes game. That every game, every rep, everything was always the same,

that there was never any highs and never any lows. And you never let the highs get too high and never let the lows get too low. And you always focused on the next game. It's a mentality thing with young athletes. I don't think it's specifically exclusive to Marner and Matthews. But there was always this sense of have you ever had to lay it on the line? Have you ever had to get out of your comfort zone? Have you ever had to do the things that you weren't accustomed to doing to win? Or was it

every game was like game 43 of the regular season. We always use the Tuesday night in Columbus, but Every game was the same if you go out and you use all of those classic power of positivity tropes You stick to your game you believe in your principles and you go out you you play the same time to your game, you believe in your principles, and you go out, you play the same time, same way, same game, every game, that eventually the process will win out and you'll achieve your goals.

The problem with that thinking is that in the playoffs, that timeframe doesn't exist. There is a time crunch and there is an immediacy that you need to be able to break out of the mold and say I can't wait for the next game and the flushing part was really interesting to me you can't sometimes flushing it isn't the right idea because there needs to be an inherent pressure you got to look at what's in the toilet I believe this is you have to look at what's in the toilet and learn from it yeah

corn I don't know I didn't have corn didn't even have corn I don't know. I didn't have corn. I didn't even have corn. I don't know. Is this a medical issue? I don't know if The approach that these guys have taken through their nine plus years in Toronto Was a flawed one from day one because there is very much a sense of these guys saying hey I'm not gonna let the noise get to me. I'm not gonna let the negativity get me down I'm not gonna let the noise get to me. I'm not gonna let the negativity get me down I'm not gonna let it permeate my bubble I'm gonna go and keep doing the things that I do have they had great levels of success in the regular season Unquestionably, it's a fantastic approach to the regular season, but there's something different about the playoffs and

I think part of it is the immediacy of it you have And I think part of it is the immediacy of it. You have seven games and four wins to decide if you're going on or not. So there's no, well, we'll, we'll try again next time, because eventually the next time runs out. Here's my thoughts. I think.

This is why you asked me the question, right? Was it just so we could get to this point? No. Well, just so I could get my thoughts. Yeah. Oh, I'm curious about your thoughts. Thanks buddy. Um, pressure players see big moments as an opportunity.

Yeah. But yeah. It's excitement. Like they're like, I cannot, this is, this is why we play the game. Non-pressure players see it as a threat. And I think in a place like Toronto, maybe early on, those guys saw it as an opportunity.

This is cool. I'm going to play these big games. What I dreamed of as a kid. And then when those moments start to pile up, the failures, then it's like threat time. And this is a threat now. And, uh, you're going to do things, you know, I think it's, it's paralyzing.

And I think about Rory McIlroy, um, who just completed the career of Grand Slam at the majors and it took a while. And that for me was the definition of these majors as they piled up on top of each other, because remember he hadn't won a major in a decade, which is crazy considering his talent. Yeah.

The moments would come, especially at the masters, because it was the one he needed to complete the career of Grand Slam. And it was like, Oh God, it's the masters again. Right? Yeah. And, and now he finally got over the hump and the career of Grand Slam and it was like, oh God, it's the Masters again, right? Yeah. And now he finally got over the hump and that was why it was such a big deal. But I think if you ask him, like the Masters,

every time it came around, every year, when you can think about that as the playoffs for team, it was like, oh God, what's going to happen right now? It wasn't like, I can't wait for that because that's my opportunity to show everyone that they're wrong. And even when he did win, there was still criticism, right? Bryson DeChambeau was like, you didn't say a word to me on the... And Rory said the other day, he was like, yeah, I was trying to win the Masters.

He was so focused on that. And I think Rory has been particularly fascinating to observe as a golf fan because he is, um, not only ultra, ultra talented, right? Phenom kind of like Tiger Woods. Um, but he's also very open about just what he's going through. Yeah. And his life is not super consistent.

Like early on he was really focused on this live thing. And you know, he was really, he spoke out about it. And then he was kind of like, ah, if the Saudi money comes, you know, uh, fine. And then, and now he's just like, I'm not even involved in that stuff. Like, and he said the other day is like, I don't care. He's not involved in any of the rules

committee or anything. He just got back to focusing on golf. And I just think, you know, to get back to the whole point of like pressure and you either want it or you don't. Yeah. Um, you know, that's a big thing with, okay, we're going to bring it back to Pedersen.

Like, does he really want the pressure? Cause he said he wants the pressure, but in order to actually embrace that pressure, you gotta go work and you gotta go prepare yourself. And sometimes when there's a threat, there's this threat, there's this, there's a, there's a natural inclination to kind of like avoid things. Yeah.

You know? And I do wonder if last off season, I know there was an injury involved, but I wonder if last off season it ended so badly after the contract was signed, he didn't play well and they were like, maybe he'll play better in the playoffs. And he didn't, right? And I think that might've reignited some things

with JT Miller. And then Elias Pedersen goes back to Sweden for the summer and put yourself, just try and put yourself in his shoes. Isn't there a part of you that would be like, I'm just going to hide for a bit, you know? I'm just going to get away from the game. It's like, you know, when you had a big test in

school and you're like, ah, I should be doing this. And I remember when I, when I had a big test in school and you're like, I should be doing this. And I remember when I had my exams for university, for some reason, it always came when TBS had the James Bond Marathon on. Gotta watch it. And I was like, ah, I know I should be studying for this. Like, this is really important. I gotta be studying for this, I gotta graduate.

But Moonraker is on again. And I would much rather just watch Moonraker than actually study because it's a threat. I don't want to think about this exam. It makes me nervous. Yeah. I'm sure that element exists and that's fine. I don't think that that applies to the leaf

situation so much. that that applies to the Leaf situation so much. I think the Leaf situation is about expectations and winning and having never done it, never. I think when the chapter's written and the Marner chapter could be written as soon as Friday, that could be his last game as a Toronto Maple Leaf, it's going to be about 10 years of unfulfilled expectation and promise.

Because they're going to look back on it and they're going to say, we got to the second round of the playoffs twice. But do you think it got harder as it went along? As the failures piled up? Yes. The issue is, and unlike Rory McIlroy, is there was no past

Experiences in history to suggest that they had the capability of winning Right. What have they ever done? The McElroy story was fantastic It was this one tournament that he couldn't overcome But no one was ever doubting that he couldn't win it because he had won every other major Yeah, it was there was something close and there was some mental hang-up and hurdle with the green jacket and the masters. With Martin and Matthews, the playoffs are it. They've never done, they've never done a single thing. They're going to go down as two of the greatest players to have never advanced to a conference final. Think about that. A conference final. Right? It is wild. Uh, someone texted in, Jason, would you still

study the same way if someone was paying you 11 million dollars? Honestly, maybe, cause I think that makes the pressure more. Is the 11 million guaranteed? Yeah. Then no. No, I think, I think, I think Pedersen really

cares. I think they need to do a better job working with him and working through whatever he's going through. Well, let's go back to what we talked about in the previous segment then, because that's perfect. And I think what they did last season was like, can I remember the Simpsons clip where, uh, where Chief Wiggum is like, I've been poking and prodding

at the dogs and singing off key. Singing off key. Meem meem meem me, me, me. And then they attack them. Right? Like, I think they were kind of hoping for Pedersen to do that. By calling these guys out, they were hoping to get the,

well, I'll show you response. And instead he just turned his brain off for the summer, didn't do anything? Well, I think he shut down. I think there was some poking and some press, some, there was poking and there was prodding. Yeah. Which is. Like some kids, I mean, I'm, anything? Well, I think he shut down. I think there was some poking and some press, some, there was poking and there was prodding. Yeah, yeah. Which is-

Like some kids, I mean, I know, and this gets to a bigger issue, by the way. If he reacts like that, maybe he's not the guy, right? And that's fair. But I think you gotta try and motivate players in different ways. Any parents out here that have kids in sports and, you know, they're really excited to play their games because they just love it.

They love the game. Right. And then if you throw some of them, not all of them, but if you throw any criticism at them and you're like, ah, you didn't do very well on that. You can see that they're like, Oh, I don't really like hockey anymore. Like that happens. And I know there are parents that are

listening right now that walk a real fine line because sometimes when you're watching the kids play and they're not doing what you think they they should be doing, it will kill you to watch it. But sometimes you just have to let it go because if you make a big deal out of it, you know, one of the things I find in kids hockey that they don't do is they don't move their feet.

Right, gotta move your feet. You gotta move your feet. We had 10 meetings about this. But if you say, but if you go out there and you're like, you gotta try harder, like you're not trying hard, they're like, I don't really like hockey anymore because they're kids. But some adults are like that. I've certainly noticed it. If you criticize them because they're kids and but some adults are like that

I've certainly noticed it if you criticize them. They're like shut down. Yeah, I do that You're are you a shut downer? I was kidding a shutter downer a shutter downer But going back to what you're saying though, like so does that mean that foot should approach Petterson differently? I think they need to understand them as best as they can and not do it just from their perspective. I've had the right answer the whole time. Trade them? Yeah. Well, you might not have to run.

Again, and I know it sounds really blunt and kind of caustic but I do firmly, firmly believe that there's too much residual scarring and damage and that the damage has been done with this team, with this market, in the room. there's too much residual scarring and damage and that the damage has been done with this team, with this market, in the room. I don't think that the surgical removal of the JT Miller, whatever you wanna call it, lump, whatever, I don't think that that solved everything.

I think that Rutherford talking about it publicly like that is wildly naive or he's just trying to put a positive spin on it, but you don't just cut something out and then expect everything to go back to normal. There's, it's like surgery. There's rehab and recovery, scarring, there's damage, there's pain, all that stuff. I don't, we've covered this league for a long time,

you and I, we've existed in a world where we have heard the term fresh start a thousand times when discussing a trade or a move or anything. People will often say, sometimes you just need a fresh start. And I don't know why anyone would suggest otherwise with this. I think you're right. I keep coming back to this. I think trading them is a lot harder than you're making it sound.

I don't know how many teams are out there that would- No, no. I never said that it wasn't hard. What I'm saying is that every option on the table is difficult. None of them are going to be easy. None of the paths forward are easy. But trading them might be an actual non-starter. Like might not be an option. You shouldn't have to coddle your star players. No you shouldn't. That shouldn't be the main. This is a very difficult situation.

This is what Adam Foote is inheriting. That should not be the makeup of your team. Like your best forward shouldn't have to be treated like a prima donna. Like he should just want to win and want to work hard. Be like Quinn Hughes. I mean not necessarily be as skilled as Quinn Hughes. I mean, not necessarily be as skilled as Quinn Hughes because you are, but have that mindset, have that mentality.

And I get it's easier said than done because not everyone's wired that way. Hey, Doc, it'd be so easy to say like, hey, have his mindset. Yeah, I know. I get that not everybody's wired that way. It's not just a mindset either. It's a way of living. And the work ethic and all that. I understand that, but if you have identified that you're best forward, cannot do those things, then you have to move on from them. Because like, how are you going to win with them? Like the same thing's happening in Toronto right now. There was a head coach in Vancouver, his name rhymed with Brick Bocket.

Who? Who decided I can't win with him. Yeah. That's why the trade route is the right route. Yeah, and you're not going to win the... Or the Rangers. Yeah. And you're not going to win the trade and it's going to suck because you're not going to get back the value that Pederson would have at the best of his... And they've already gone down the road

of we're gonna take an L on this trade. They did it with one half of the tumultuous in-room relationship that they had. But at the end of the day, maybe they just don't have a choice. But if that's the case, well, they have to do it before July 1st. Otherwise, it's pretty much impossible.

I'm still keeping it in my mind that Pedersen could bounce back next season. There is always that chance. For sure. For sure. But that's what goes back to me asking like, well then what's the foot going to do? Yeah.

And well, I mean, look, sports is unpredictable, you know? I don't think. But I don't think any of us, I think, here's the thing, none of us know what makes PD tick. No. Like none of us know. And I think the Canucks have been trying to

find out all season. And that's, that's the frustrating part where you're like, you don't think they've, you know, I, you know, talking to an interesting remark, it is end of season press conference. He's like, you know, I hear all these people like say, like, go out for some beers and just hash it out. It's like, and it's like, you don't think we thought of that like I'm sure they've gone through the whole gamut of like be nice be mean you know like funny hat day I don't know like and

at some point tried inviting more to play some video games and at some point you're just like hey man I'm out of answers. The only person, and sometimes the best thing to do, it really is, is leave the guy alone. And he's either gonna solve his issues or he's not. But one thing I have learned in my life that I am still trying to learn, you cannot control others. You can't, like when I started this in sports

radio, I always wanted to be in charge of the show and I wanted this to be done and this to be said and this to happen and at some point, like you're just banging your head against the wall trying to make other guys do what you want them to do, and you have to leave them alone at some point. Is this about us now? Yeah, you have to trade them. Hey, hey, and if it doesn't work, you make changes.

Yeah. Because you can't make someone into someone who they're not. And people have texted in, I think this is a good point, they want him to be Sidney Crosby, he's not Crosby. He's not. He's Lee's Patterson. And it's like, bring in a new coach, try and motivate him. Bring in new wingers, maybe that'll motivate him.

Play him with Holglinder, aren't they buddies? Get Quinn Hughes to sit down with him. Anyone going through anything, you can help them, play them with Holglinder, aren't they buddies? Get Quinn Hughes to sit down with them. You know, anyone going through anything, like you can help them, but it is 99% down to that person making the decision one day, okay, this is what I'm going to do. Can't control it. It's so frustrating because you want to control the situation. And if you're the coach and you're the general manager, you're thinking like, it's my job to control the situation and if you're the coach and you're the general manager you're thinking like it's my job to control the situation but you can't they're gonna act the way they're gonna act. I'm with you actually you know you're convincing me maybe the best thing to do is this

time to do nothing because they've tried everything and hasn't worked. Yeah, just be like hey we've set our expectations out for you. It's up to you now. It's up to you now. Yeah. It's up to you. Yeah It's up to you now. It's up to you. And if you come back and maybe go out and say that, like if I'm Adam Foote, maybe I was just like, hey, Petey knows the deal. I'm not gonna go over and babysit him in Sweden. But you realize the risk with that, right,

is that if they do this and it doesn't work, they can't trade them then at that point because. Yes. So that is the risk. It's like they haven't told you. The risk is already there man. Yeah I know but I'm saying they haven't told July 1st to decide exactly what they're gonna do.

Yeah. And after that it's, that's it. Two hours of the show in the books, hour three on the horizon, couple guests for you in the eight o'clock hour, an eight and an eight thirty. Little bit of a different show here today on the Halford and Brush Show on Sportsnet 650. As we will not be doing our traditional,

what we learned at eight 30 eight o'clock, Tyler your I'm Chuck's going to join us for some oilers talk. Oilers advanced to the Western conference final yet again, uh, taking care of the Vegas golden nights last night. So we'll talk to Tyler about that at eight at eight 15 this morning. We are giving away a pair of tickets to see the who yes, the who at Rogers arena on September 23rd caller number five at 8 15 so right in the middle of the Tyler Uremchuk hit the phone number here 604 280 06 50 that number again 604 280 06 50

tickets go on sale this Friday tomorrow but we're giving away tickets every day this week in advance of that sale so call it 8 815. So Tyler, your REM check at eight, who tickets at 815, then at 830 Satya Arshad is gonna join us to talk about the Adam Foote hire right here in Vancouver. You're listening to the Haliford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650.