Halford & Brough in the Morning - Satiar Shah Converses Canucks + What We Learned

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

In Hour 3, Josh Elliott-Wolfe and Thomas Drance are joined by Satiar Shah to break down the latest Canucks news and preview tonight's game against the San Jose Sharks. Will the Canucks be buyers at the deadline, and who might they try and shop? Then the guys discuss what they learned over a weekend of sports. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

like we always complain hockey players are boring and they don't give us uh good answers if somebody gets emotional like that and that's the way they feel we can't criticize them for showing their true emotions so i don't have a single problem i would never clearly it bothers them i would never have walked off in the interviews but i would never give you the satisfaction of walking off the podium for you. Welcome back to Halford & Brough. Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, Trance, filling in for Halford & Brough. Today and tomorrow. Tomorrow, once again,

we're on 8 a.m. to 11 a.m. A little bit of a later show, but still three hours on December 24th. Get pumped. We're coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Sore feet.

What are you waiting for? Kintec. 650-650, Dunbar Lumber text line. I feel like I'm lobbying that up for someone to do. Well, Drance is supposed to be hitting it out of the park. I know. He's just zoned out. Excuse me.

650-650, Dunbar Lumber text line. Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and reno warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at DunbarLumber.com. Halford & Brough, brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. And this hour of Halford & Brough is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers.

Trust the expertise of Campbell & Pound. Visit campbell-pound.com today. We go to the phone lines. Sapti Arshad of Canuck Central. He does the post game show. You see him on TV sometimes. How's it going, Satt? I'm doing well, man. I'm doing well, hanging out. How are you guys

enjoying the morning show? Is Drance awake? How many coffees did you plant? I crushed a XL double-double before the show and the impact's wearing off, I think, based on the start of the segment anyway. He didn't hit the kick jack and it's uh the impact's wearing off i think based on the start of the segment anyway it's all downhill from here how are you doing bud happy holiday to you and your family what what are you thinking about the canucks frou-frou coming out of this weekend oh my god i mean like is there ever a shortage of storylines with the hockey team no right like there there never is right and And obviously, on Hockey Night in Canada,

it all kind of blew up with Pedersen's reaction and we saw JT yesterday. So the so-called soap opera continues. The question just is, when is there an end? Is there going to be one of those sizzle ends where something just kind of happens at the end of the season, we just move on? Or is there going to be some big dramatic end

to this storyline before the season ends? And I think that's what we're all kind of waiting to find out now. I do kind of wonder if we're reaching the end of it now. Like now that Pedersen and Miller have addressed it in their own ways, Quinn Hughes, Rick Tock had addressed it. I mean, it might have to wait until they start winning again and both those guys start playing well but i i do i think it'd be hard to see it getting much more attention i guess like i i can't see them getting more questions

about this moving forward because it doesn't really feel like it's going to get worse at this point right well i mean my model as you know Josh, and it is a bit pessimistic, but things can always get worse. Things can always get more complicated. That's so nice. There's no bottom. That whole notion of rock bottom to me is what it signifies to you as a person.

But things can always get worse in every situation, right? So I'm not holding my breath saying we've hit the bottom of it, so to speak. But I do think we got up to a point now where unless something new develops, something actually happens behind the scenes that leads to a big blow up. Like what else is going to be talked about? Like it's all out there right now. Obviously these guys are not best friends.

And obviously Patterson and Miller have no interest in talking about it. If anything, they're denying that it is an issue, at least an issue that's big enough for them to be concerned about as far as this year goes. I'm not sure any of the answers or any of the posturing does change anybody's opinion on what's going on. Ultimately, it all comes down to performance on the ice.

If you want this to be quiet, if this isn't going to be talked about, it's not going to start winning. Pedersen has to start playing better. JT has to start playing better. If they do, then I agree with you. This will be the end of it. We might look back at it in a few months and talk about maybe that was an inflection point in the season. Maybe that was

the moment where the adversity hit them and that's when they came together and they figured it out. I'm hoping that's a story we can tell by the end of the season, but it all comes down to winning. In a Canadian market, guys, and it's not just this market. You know how much this team just talks on the national stage, whether it's, you know, on hockey night, whether it's a big popular podcast, the two biggest ones in the world. As far as hockey goes, they talk about the Canucks when things aren't going right.

So unless they start winning, unless those guys start producing, the story may creep up again. I'm hoping they win. I hope these guys play well, because if they do, I think we'll stop talking about it. Sat, what do you make, like, because I think you're right. I mean, I fundamentally do not care about this story except if I think that it's impacting

the team's performance, right? And not that I do think that necessarily, but at some point, like, I do think the story, at least, like, a side plot to the story, is Canucks core not performing. Teams effort too inconsistent night to night. Like, that has to be a story about the leadership group. And that to me is a hockey story. Like, that to me is fair ground for reporters to ask about, for us to discuss and delve into at length.

And, you know, I do think it's fair to note, like, hey, that part of the game has been wanting here. Well, it has, right? And I think ultimately it should, I mean, again, I'm not downplaying any of the stories or whatever, because I've talked about it too. I reported on stuff about a week and a half ago, and I mentioned a lot of the same stuff that's out there now,

as far as they're not best friends. At the same time, it's one of those things where the team wants to work it out, they value both players, they believe in both of these players. It's been a situation that gets tiresome to manage after a while because you're constantly dealing with similar things.

But there is a belief and want to make it work here, and I think that should be the big takeaway as far as the organization's posture. The rest, however, is simply true. This team has not been as good as it needs to be, and it all comes down to their core players. And the question just comes down to, is the mix good enough with these core guys to invest in long-term

and actually be able to be a winner with? And I think it goes beyond just having good individual seasons from time to time. It's how much can a group push each other? How much can a group get the best out of each other? And this is not about any personal drama. It's just about the construction of the group, especially your core players, strong enough and healthy enough and talented and driven enough to become a real contending team.

Because look at the teams that have actually won Stanley Cups. We all go back and talk about how important the core players were to one another. Go through Tampa, talk about how those players pushed each other, how they believed in one another, and how they through Tampa, talk about how those players pushed each other, how they believed in one another and how they ended up getting the best out of each other, pulling the same direction every single year. And those are the things you have to see from this core group.

Last year was a huge step in the right direction, but we haven't seen that consistency from this core group, right? We've seen different regimes. We've seen different head coaches. Obviously, a lot of the players have changed around them as well. But we've seen JT have a bad year

have a bad half season Patterson have a bad year but have a bad half season you can't have your two most talented forwards not play at a high level consistently and if they don't those guys can't find it then it becomes just a hockey operations question about do you have the players just on on the ice that can take you to that next level because I don't think it can be acceptable to go from where you had last year to where you are this year and then have questions about, can these players take that next step? Because big decisions are being made on Brock Besser's contract.

You're at a situation with your cap where you have to make some big decisions, otherwise you're going to get locked in with this core after this year and beyond. So this is a huge year to figure out, do we have the right guys to win with? Do you think, like when we look at this room last year, it was, they had Ian Cole,

they had Nikita Zdorov, they had these big voices, even if they weren't, like they were good players, but they weren't, you know, core players. Do you think they're missing

a big voice like that? Like someone that carries weight in the room right now? I don't know. I think that the room does miss guys like Cole, guys like Zdorov. And I don't even mean it so much as I'm keeping JT Miller and Sheck silver speak, but it's just a matter of the dynamics. And when you have strong personalities, you need to have other strong personalities that can equal each other out a

little bit, right? And I think having guys that can keep the mood light, that carry cachet, that are respected, that speak up from time to time, understand situations where maybe something amiss, they can bring guys together a little bit. And ultimately, it comes down to winning and losing, because you can have the best guys in the room,

people on a long losing streak, people start looking at each other's side eyes a little bit, and the patience does wear. And I think some of this stuff sometimes is just talked by us about finding answers to their problems and looking for that proverbial smoking gun so to speak to point to the issue directly saying this if you do this differently this team is going to change but I do believe when you start looking at how how much the weight of this season is is obviously weighing

on these players to see how they're reacting to see how Rick Taka is trying to keep everybody together and make sure that he's pulling pushing prodding at the same time you know not wanting to alienate guys too much because it is a long season in the hot market I think having guys in a room that can take that pressure off the coach a little bit that can self-regulate the room a little bit better I think it makes for a healthier environment but ultimately you know you can't have babysitters you know the guys themselves have to find it within them to find that next level of professionalism. Sat, as much as the drama has consumed the market, right?

The club's inability to threaten offensively to me is like the biggest hockey story, right right like we've seen and and it really escalated since miller's absence but miller's return hasn't helped now granted heronic then left the lineup so uh you know they're not exactly playing with a full deck but you got to be able to manufacture more than the new york islanders and the detroit red wings five on five like with this much talent and on the, like it doesn't it doesn't square. What what are you seeing? Why is this team so pop gun at the moment?

Yeah. And you know what? Like, I'm so stuck. I've been spending so much time rewatching games lately, trying to figure out, like, OK, how much of this is on the players? How much of this is on the coaching? What is going on with this team? And it ultimately comes down to what the Canucks are doing or not doing off the rush, right?

That's essentially what it comes down to. They haven't been as good defending off the rush. We've seen it in recent games, too, the opportunities they've given up. They're generating next to nothing off the rush, right? And even last year, they weren't generating a ton, but it was more than we're generating now. And obviously, the conversion rate last year was unsustainably high off the rush. They weren't going to be able to turn that back together.

But why are you not able to generate more? Is it the rules the players have when they have the puck getting out of their own zone? Are they allowed to cross lanes? Or at times it doesn't look like they are, right? And if you look at how they're attacking and getting out of their own zone, it's a lot about making sure that you're safe coming up. At the same time, the coach has said numerous times, you can still make plays with the puck.

Yes, we want you to be smart. Yes, we want you to understand time and place and play responsible hockey. But we also want you to take opportunities when they're there in front of you. And we heard the coach talk about that a lot. So to me, it comes down to, are the players not executing the plan? Or does the plan need some tweaking to find some more value offensively? Because there's a play that I noted this on social media. This happens quite a bit where the Canucks are coming out of their own

through the neutral zone with speed. They're about to enter the off of the zone. And they'll have a player for a pass for a zone entry, or at least a play where you can maybe make a one-two and have possession coming into the zone. And they'll just dump it in. There was a play the other night. It was Jake DeBrus skating across the blue line into the offensive zone.

Petey's on the near wall right next to him. He can easily slide the puck over to Petey. He can make a play with it. He decides to dump it in. They can't get it. They swirl around for 10, 20 seconds, and the puck gets out of the offensive zone. They don't get any possession out of it.

I just don't understand why if you have a teammate ready you have a teammate available why aren't you making the pass why are you dumping it in and i think the coach has talked about how he doesn't want to see that happen when you have the opportunity the thing i kind of keep going back and forth on too is like is this a like hey you don't have the right personnel on defense outside of quinn hughes and and Phillip Peronick when he's healthy to execute whatever they're trying to do offensively and it's just not starting from the back end and you're not going in transition?

Or should they be doing more just based on the offensive weapons they have in the forward group? Well, I think there's two separate things. I agree. If you look at their zone exit numbers, they're very poor. They're not having too many, unless it's Quinn Hughes lugging the puck out of his own zone or making a controlled play out of his own zone

with a pass of somebody else, they're one of the worst teams in the league with controlled exits coming out of their own zone. So if you're not controlling the puck efficiently enough or consistently enough coming out of your own zone, well, how can you generate enough scoring opportunities i mean it goes hand in hand but there's also the times like i mentioned where you have the puck on your stick and you are an offensive player that can

make a play you're elected to just make the safer more dumbed down version of the play is that going hand in hand with your overall system again like it's hard for us to answer on the outside, especially when, you know, you can't sit down with the guys and individually ask exactly what's going through all their heads, right? But I do think it goes hand-in-hand, because we're seeing Pedersen, we're seeing their skilled players not making enough skilled plays when they have opportunities. We're also not seeing them get out of their own zone of control nearly enough.

And again, the coach has mentioned where he's frustrated that even the defenders when they have time will just throw the puck out sometimes or flip it out so what's the issue here is it just getting deer in headlights is it not having confidence is the the support not being there or outlets not being available to make that connected pass quickly enough and case in point and it didn't work out but the play that happened on um the first goal the other night not against um uh not the last game but the game prior rock nester besser and noah julson on the zone exit don't make the clean play i think it was the last game where noah's julson's trying to throw the puck up to where he expects better to be right in that spot and ends up being a turnover and if you've had those moments happen before,

are you just more reluctant to make the play and just flip it out instead? And I think that connectivity also matters. With where this team sits, Sat, I'm really struggling. Like, this is the time of year where I usually start to feel pretty confident that I have a grasp on a team's true talent level. And this is maybe the first year,

and I've covered the Canucks, you know, with a three-year interruption since 2012, right? This is the first year where it's like right before Christmas. And I'm like, I truly have no idea. I have no idea what this team is. Can you help me out? What do you think they are? Matt, I wish I could tell you, because to me, like that's been the big question and we get it on the post-game show all the time.

And even, you know, on our shows, people are like, what is this team? Are they bad? Are they good? And it's like, I don't have enough intel, right? I don't have enough information to confidently make an assertion of what this team is. What I do know is they haven't shown us they're a contender.

They haven't shown us that the ceiling is nearly high enough or good enough to do anything of consequence. But at the the same time we haven't seen what i think is even the best version of this current group but as time goes on guys like you're you're 33 games in at what point do you just say they are where they are and do we get do that at the 50 game mark the 60 game mark like if we get to the 50 game mark and they're doing the same stuff is this a team is this what they are like you have to show at some point what your ceiling is. And they've shown flashes, right? Like the game against Florida, the Colorado game, LA game.

But here's the thing. I'm naming all these games. Like, there's like four or five games. Those are the games you can think of out of the 33 they played. Like, it's not like we're sitting here saying, man, they've played so many good games. We can literally count them on one hand. And at what point is that just the anomaly

or who you can actually be and i just think we need a bit more time not to cop out to truly know what they are i mean i think they're going to be a playoff team right but right now i don't think they're going to do much in the postseason and i think we need to see a bit more to understand are they capable of being anything else than what they've shown so far see and i i think they're a playoff team too, but I think they're at real risk if they continue to play the way they have since Miller took his leave. And I know they had that run of success on that road trip,

but I didn't think they were playing well. I thought they were playing coin flip hockey against bad teams in the Eastern Conference and were pretty fortunate to come out with the record that they did. All told, you know, that Boston game, I mean, the Bruins were all over them, on top of them all night. The Buffalo game, they needed a pretty incredible comeback against Detroit. You know, like that was not,

that was a trip that was a bounce or two, a 50-50 away from being very different. And I just feel like it's caught up to them. Like they played almost a three-week stretch of hockey where they were getting away with it after Miller first left, and they've stopped getting away with it. So if they're that team, I think they're at risk of falling behind Utah in the standings over the balance of the season.

But if they're the team we saw in the first 16 games, even if there was some maddening inconsistency, I think they're an easy playoff team. It's such a difficult sort of split to wait. I think here's what I've concluded. When Hronik gets back, I'm going to give him 15 games. And then I'm going to make up my mind.

I think that's fair, right? Right now, you can tell when Quinn's not on the ice, it's a real struggle. Even Brandstrom does things well because of how much more pressure there is on each defenseman and how every team is now a lot more aggressive with their forecheck and how much harder they're making it for the Canucks so they know

that they don't have enough guys that can move the puck. Even his puck movement has gone down and perhaps that's another reason why he hasn't been in the lineup as much. But even the guys that can do some stuff in the Heronics' absence, it seems like that's dried up. That contingency is not there anymore. So whether it's Hirona or somebody else,

they have to come back to get a truer sense of what this team is or isn't. But I think what makes it hard to truly evaluate has been the goaltending, right? Lankanen, outside of the other night where he wasn't as sharp as he normally is, it saved him. Demko, I think, is going to walk into form,

and based on everything I've seen from Demko, I don't know if there's structural issues that I'm concerned about. Obviously, you hope that he stays healthy. That's going to be a big thing. And I think that's what can complicate things, right, guys? Where even if their five-on-five game and overall play stays the same, if they pick up results because of goaltending, and I think that makes it a bit more tricky to talk about

because obviously they might be getting results and getting points, but how convincing is it? And on one hand, you'll see fans be happy with it you don't apologize for good goaltending you're finding ways to win games maybe you'll get it figured out but i think the process is what the coaching staff and the organization cares about the most and i don't think they're going to be fooled by a poor process and good goaltending so i'm with you i think when you get aronik back, if you are in this position where you're still in it, so to speak, a few weeks of that will give you a better indication of what this team is.

But guys, based on what we've seen so far, and things can change, if this team doesn't make an addition, can they truly be a contender in the postseason? You know what I mean? As constructed, even if, let's just say that Hronik comes back, he looks good, you have the two goalies, as constructed, do they still not need more to truly contend with

what they have? Definitely. I think the issue that comes up for me, though, is like, you can have this inconsistency, and we can try to give them more time, but eventually you're getting really close to the trade deadline, and you kind of got to make a decision, especially on guys like Brock Besser,

and you can maybe throw Pew Suter in there too. Guys that would be key pieces to your team in the playoffs, but if you're not confident about what you can do in the playoffs, it starts to make it a little bit murky, and then you might end up in a position where, hey, maybe you're not trading those guys, but maybe you're not trading for any key pieces either, at least especially not any rentals.

It's just like, it's, I don't know. I feel like it might be foggy leading up to March 7th. Yeah, I get the sense too. I get the sense though that considering what this organization is looking for on the back end, because I believe they are very high, and you know this is about your hands about the lander about kudriyata the dpd especially like they think they have at least

one or two guys that's going to be a player the question though is timeline i don't think they're naive to assume that one or one or two of those guys are going to play top four roles for them as soon as next season so regardless of what you feel about your prospects you still need another guy and i think what they're doing this year, as far as how far they can go in the postseason, may not impact their desire one way or another to add another defenseman. Because I think if they can,

they want to add somebody that fits the age group of this team and also can be under control for a few years. And if this year's not the year that these so-called are going to win the Cup, are you going to bypass an opportunity to add a player, just like they did for Rona a couple years ago, despite being out of it? Hey, Sat, really appreciate you taking the time, and we'll hear you today on Canuck Central on the post-game show.

All right, stay out of trouble, boys. Have another coffee before night. Happy holidays, Sat. Thanks, Sat. Hey, Merry Christmas to everybody, too. Thanks. There is Satyarsha, host of Canuck Central, which is on today at some point. Four o'clock.

I forgot what time it's on. Schedule's all over the place. The schedule's, I think it's at four. What time's Canuck's talk? Just kidding. I'm just pulling it up now. It's definitely at four. Four o'clock, Canuck Central.

Official pregame starts at five. Let's ask the show's producer. The game is at six. Well, hey. Hey. Come on. Come on, Zach. And then postgame, which would be, I know when that is.

That is after the game. Oh. Sportsnet 650. Yes. Before the game. And by the way, you can hear the call. We had some questions because tonight's game is on Amazon. The television side, it's on Amazon at 6 o'clock.

The radio is still going to be here on the radio on Sportsnet 650. So you will still hear Brendan Batchelor on the call tonight for Canucks and Sharks. We also have questions about the schedule in general coming up. And obviously nothing Wednesday. There's no sports going on. So nobody's on the air. Thursday, Friday, the show is – There's no sports on Wednesday? Well, there is sports Wednesday. None's no sports going on. So nobody's on the air. Thursday, Friday the show's... There's no sports on Wednesday?

Well, there is sports on Wednesday. None that we carry. None of the sports that we carry live on the air. Chance is like, my whole thing Wednesday. What are you talking about? We are still carrying the Seahawks Bears on Thursday. And also the Giants game on Friday. Even though there's no shows that day, we're still doing those games.

And then, of course, Canucks Saturday and then Giants again on Sunday. And then next week, I don't know if all the hosts are back, but back to semi-regular show. This show will be normal with the hosts, but starting an hour later

for the first few days. Okay, all right. So don't panic if it's not right on the air at 6 o'clock. So that's your update on the schedule. And tomorrow, 8 to 11.

Between 6 and 8, there will be nothing. Well, there will be something. The post-game show will get re-aired. The post-game show will get re-aired, but it there will be nothing. Well, there will be something. The post-game show will get re-aired. The post-game show will get re-aired. But it will not be us. We'll be on a date. Anyway, coming up on the other side, what we learned.

Get yours in. WWL on the 650-650 Dunbar-Lumber text line. Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, Drance, filling in on Halford and Brough on Sportsnet 650. We are your home of the Canucks hey this is quinn hughes he scores quinn hughes throws it to the goal it beats sergey bobrovsky and the canucks take a one nothing lead sportsnet 650 time now for sportsnet 650 traffic from the 1130 news radio traffic center if you're going through vanc, there's ongoing road work on East 1st Avenue between

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Learning about it is simple. Ask your pharmacist or doctor if it could be right for you. Paxilovid, get to know it. In the 1130 News Traffic Center, I'm Dawn Powers. Hockey and car dealers both have a lot in common. Both are committed to being the best at what they do and strive for excellence. But only Vancouver Honda can offer you efficient, powerful, and stylish vehicles. With their state-of-the-art customer center and dedicated knowledgeable multilingual staff vancouver honda makes your experience as easy as possible bring your vehicle in today for maintenance and take advantage of their shuttle service loaner vehicles or local pickup and drop-off service vancouver honda vancouver's premier multilingual destination

for honda customers visit us online at VancouverHonda.com. Now for my favorite part of the show. What'd I say? Talk to the audience. Oh, God, this is always dead. It's what we learn time. It's what we learn time It's what we learn time It's what we learn time On the show

Welcome back to Halford & Brough. Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, Trance, filling in for the aforementioned Halford & Brough. Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, Trance, filling in for the aforementioned Halford & Brough. We are coming to you live from the Kintex studio, and you can text in on the 650-650 Dunbar Lumber text line. Get your what we learns in. This hour of Halford & Brough brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers.

Trust the expertise of Campbell & Pound. Visit campbell-pound.com today. Halpert & Brough also brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. And what we learned is brought to you by AJ's Pizza on East Broadway,

where every day is happy hour from 2.30 to 5.30 and all day on Sunday only at AJ's Pizza. Get some pizza. Anyway. Love to get some pizza. What we learned. So

just love AJ's generally. AJ's is great. The best. It is pretty good. Every once in a while we get in the office and that's just a wonderful day. It's very good. Every once in a while we get in the office and that's just a wonderful day. It's very good. Sicilian. Go get the Sicilian. Everyone goes for the Detroit and they should. The Detroit's delicious. Yeah. But the Sicilian

upside down. Okay. Get with some crumbled sausage and pepperoncini. Trust your guy Thomas Drance. Whether you like my hockey takes or not. The pizza takes are always right. One look at me and you know I know my pizza. People always text in like, oh, you're just, you know,

slapping for AJ. And I'm like, well, no, we legitimately love, if AJ's pizza was placed right in front of me at any moment, I will devour it. Yeah, they don't sponsor my show and I go twice a week. Maybe you should. I've got to maintain my figure. He's got a brand to stick to.

It's my favorite place to watch football in the city. Does anyone have a What We Learned? I got a quick one. In the room, laddie. I got one with audio. With audio? From the weekend.

Go ahead. From Elliot Friedman. But it's about one of my topics that I like to talk about, junior hockey. So not exactly the... It's exactly the drama of the Canucks, Pedersen-Miller stuff going on. But there is a lot of drama going on behind the scenes because of the NCAA change in the agreement where WHL, CHL players are allowed now to go to NCAA. There was a couple of teams in the USHL

that want to leave and go play in the OHL. Muskegon and Youngstown have both, you know, really put the pressure on the OHL to allow them to join the league, and the OHL wants them in, but it's hit a bit of a snag over the course of the weekend, as Elliott Friedman explained during the Saturday headlines. Earlier this week, the Ontario Hockey League voted to allow and bring in two USHL teams,

Muskegon and Youngstown, as soon as next season. However, according to International Ice Hockey Federation rules, USA Hockey has to approve that, and this week, in writing, USA Hockey indicated it would not. So the OHL is willing to accept the teams USA Hockey has not approved their transfer so it's kind of in limbo right now so this is becoming just a battle of USA Hockey versus Hockey Canada essentially and it's going to get messy and we've seen it here on the on the west coast with the BCHL going independent and a lot of the fallout from that well it's starting to trickle over to the East Coast now, as you just heard with the OHL trying to kind of not steal these two teams

from the USHL, but USA Hockey, they really want to protect the USHL because that's where their national team development program plays. Not a lot of other teams in their area. Muskegon and Youngstown are two of the closer teams, so this really puts them out on an island a bit with the loss of those two teams. And just looking from behind the scenes, it seems like Youngstown and Muskegon might actually just fold completely

and then start up as an expansion franchise in the OHL, which would completely rub USA Hockey the wrong way. So it could get really messy if you keep your eye on the situation out there on the East Coast. Yeah, it's messy. That's fair. We're going to see, I think,

a pretty fundamental transformation of junior hockey or major junior hockey over the next five years as a result of this. Like, we're really just at the start and it is going to be messy, but I hope that eventually it ends up being something that's a little more orderly. You know, like, and honestly, hopefully something where college hockey becomes more prominent in the United States because college sports are such a huge draw.

You know, and now with NIL deals and such, like if college hockey could get to the point where, I mean, you have Bryce Underwood transferring his commitment from LSU to Michigan because Dave Portnoy and a cabal of investors stepped in. He's $12 million. Like, these guys in college football are pros, period. They're pros. And same with college basketball. And then you've got the NIL money in hockey, and it's like,

A, Canadians can't earn it. Right. And that's the tricky part of hockey with so many canadians right they can't earn any of that money but but also like and and so you have to even even then so you have to be like american born and then you know there's not a ton of national advertising dollars but like it's the the pie's too small like hopefully you know if you had a world where and i think you'd have to change a couple things like i, if you had a world where, and I think you'd have to change a couple things. I think if you had a world where there was some sort of harmonized agreement so that it was like North American major junior hockey, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Actually working together rather than butting heads constantly. That's crazy. Right? That would be sort of a start. And then now that those players can go to college, the NHl should probably consider allowing well and i guess with the ncaa they should probably allow drafted you

should be able to draft a guy and like sign him so they get paid and have them go to college as opposed to the way we do it now which would also eliminate the justin schultz loophole and benefit teams right like you'd have fewer of those defections, those August 15 free agents. And also, you know, then a player could go to college, make some NIL money once you figure that out, and make some money from their NHL team or at least get their 92.5K signing bonus. But look at that from a Hockey Canada perspective, right? They see any college hockey involvement as a failure on their end.

They want to keep these players in Canada, playing in major junior. But, I mean, at some point, like, I mean, you have to, then you have to be able to match the salaries that they can make and on and on. Or you're a development, you're a feeder system for college hockey and college hockey becomes for more mature players. Which is what they do not want to become. The college hockey system.

Hockey Canada does not want to become a feeder system for the college hockey system. I know, but that's coming whether they like it or not, now that you can go to the NCAA. Because at the end of the day, earning an education, playing once a week, living in Boston or Connecticut or wherever on campus, that's a sick life. There's a reason it's hard to sign these guys. Even for Canadians, though, it makes sense,

because you look at what's happening with Gavin McKenna, going to be 18, doesn't really want to play in that pool of players in the CHL where the max limit is 20 years old. He can go to college

at 18 or at 17 and play against 24-year-olds, 23-year-olds. Yeah. That, to him, is much more appealing that they have that sort of expanded age group.

You've got to go play against the highest competition you can find. Like Austin Matthews going to Switzerland, right? Exactly like that. And McKenna's definitely at the level where, you know, he's got to seek out whatever is, whatever the highest level of competition is, that's where he's got to go.

And that scares Hockey Canada big time. Well, it should. It should. McKenna's, but, you know, there's, I mean, I just think that's coming inevitably anyway. So you push against it and restrict or you compete and change your model a bit. And I just think that's where we're getting to regardless. It's like inevitable.

And so I just think it's about finding sharp solutions that benefit young athletes should be the priority here. Okay, so MuCal that. Zach, you got one? Yes, I do. The Florida Panthers are almost as likely to score on the penalty kill as the New York Islanders are on the power play, which is not great for the Islanders. That's 10% for the Panthers on the penalty kill, which is a quite ridiculous stat.

And the Islanders power play at just 12%, only 2% more likely to score. Dang. Tough. Tough for Patrick Waugh and the boys. Ugly. Matt Barzell. Sorry.

He's back now, though. He's back. He was injured for a bit. He's healthy. They've got Siplekov. That guy looks good. I love that guy. That is one of my guys, man.

You go watch Islanders games, he is causing havoc. He is wrecking guys. Kind of reminds me of a taller Niels Hoaglander. I got time for that player. Do you have one? Oh, we've got to move out of that. Do you have one? Or I can go?

Up to you. What we learned? Here's what I learned. I learned that Kevin O'Connell is going to win Coach of the Year. Yeah, he is. Kevin O'Connell is going to win Coach of the Year. Yeah, he is. Kevin O'Connell is going to win Coach of the Year. There's no question about it, and nobody is happier about this than me. Okay.

Sorry, Josh. I'm pretty happy about it. I have him from the summer at plus 2,800 to win Coach of the Year. It's my most cherished future. And I learned that it's happening. Yes. Let's go. Kevin O'Connell.

Going to invest that money today. For those that are on the way, well, I maybe wouldn't, but I'm confident. For those that are unaware, head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, who won yesterday in Seattle. If you're keeping track of the NFL coach of the year

running it's essentially between Dan Campbell and him and Dan Campbell to me great coach but realistically expectations for the Lions were pretty sky high this year right whereas the Vikings came into this season Sam Darnold was it well J.J. McCarthy was potentially going to be their quarterback it was a battle between McCarthy and Sam Darnold Sam Darnold uh gets the starting job thanks in large part to J.J. McCarthy being out for the season with uh with an ACL injury and now the Vikings are 13 and 2 the expectations for Minnesota were like hey if you win six games that might be a good year for the Vikings who were definitely supposed to be in a rebuild year or at least a uh an in-between year waiting for some of their younger guys to you know mature a little bit and also to continue adding this offseason so i i'm uh i'm fully on

board with kevin o'connell should win coach of the year because it always comes down to who exceeded expectations the most and i feel like the vikings are the team that did exceed expectations the most this season mook how that my what we learned i learned that seattle in december is is quite nice i'd never been in december but i went down for this weekend it was my wife's birthday on saturday and then we went to the i'm a vikings fan by the way uh we went to the vikings game yesterday in seattle and i'd never i'd only been to seattle for jay game, so I always go in the summer. It's pretty unseasonably warm right now, so that probably helped.

Well, I mean, it's fine. It's a little wet, but it's nice. The vibes in December, though, they were nice. The Christmas vibes in Seattle I thought were very nice. If it was minus 10, the vibes might have been a little different. It might have been a little worse, but it was better. It was fine. What I will say, I had never been to an NFL game, too.

First one yesterday. Seahawks fans are loud. I'll give that to them. It's a great environment. They are very loud. Where did you go before the game? We went to, so we woke up late. Then we went to Pike Place.

We got bagels at Bagel Bop. Okay. Very good. And then we got some donuts from I don't know what store is next to that. But it's also to Pike Place. We got bagels at Bagel Bop. Okay. Very good. And then we got some donuts from I don't know what store is next to that, but it's also in Pike Place. So you were really big on round food with a hole in the middle? Yeah. That was kind of my whole thing yesterday.

To try and fill your soul. And then we had a churro at the game, which is essentially a long circle. The exact opposite. No, sorry. It's straight. A long circle is a straight line. A cylinder, perhaps?

Let's not argue over this. Does a churro have a hole in it? It sort of does because it lives on those sticks, but yeah, it's hollow. Yeah, but it's a tube. I wouldn't even call it a cylinder. It's a big straw. It's a stick. What's a straw? It's a cylinder.

A straw is a cylinder.. It's a stick. What's a straw? It's a cylinder. A straw is a cylinder. But it's ridged. Yeah, it's still a... It's ribbed for your eating pleasure. Don't do that! It's still a ridged cylinder, though. I would say it's a ribbed cylinder, but... Okay, but the second word is still cylinder.

You say tomato, I say tomato. You know? You latched on to the ribbed part. And we all still cylinder. You say tomato, I say tomato. You know? You latched on to the ribs. And we all say cylinder. It is not really a cylinder. I would say it's more of a boxy item as a result of the ridges. It's like the classic debate. Does a straw have one hole or does it have two holes?

A straw has one hole. One continuous hole. I agree with that, actually. I would love to continue to clash with you. But, yeah, actually. I would love to continue to clash with you. But, yeah, anyway, in my opinion, other than being a fried delightful pastry, best coated in cinnamon sugar, there is no world in which a churro is circular. 100% is.

I don't know. It fits in a circle. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know. It has a hole in the middle. It's a long donut. I don't know what to tell you. Anyway, it was a fun game, though.

It was a good game to go to. And first half, very wet. Second half, much better. Would recommend sitting undercover if you're going to a game in Seattle in December. Anyway, mook out that. And we will print off the listener submission. Very good. I'm doing pretty good today, except for that one read.

We don't need to talk about it. We won't play it back. Yeah, North Star Metal Recycling. Anyway, what we learned, this one from Colin and Tawasin. Elias Pettersson and JT Miller need to do a buddy road trip like planes, trains, and automobiles or Deadpool and Wolverine to sort out their differences and come together. That's beautiful.

That's beautiful. We should just force guys to go on road trips together. Like if guys maybe aren't getting along in the room, not even just Pettersson and Miller, anyone on any team ever, they don't get to take the plane to the next game. They have to drive there, have hijinks along the way, and that's how they'll sort out their differences.

Great idea, Colin and Tawasin. Do you have any? Anyone have any? Churros are generally piped from star shape. Okay, all right. That's something, that's what I learned. I can lean star shape, but they have a hole in the middle. I have a what I learned from Rob and Sry who says,

What I've learned is that listening to Thomas Drance is not a good use of my holidays as a teacher. You know what? I could have told you that before you learned it. What we learned, the college football playoffs sucked. Can we get one decent game please i will first of all i think we're going to get some decent games coming up here with georgia notre dame in the second round and um is it ohio state oregon those games are going to be lights out good but yeah a hugely disappointing first round for the inaugural edition of the college football playoffs uh which sucks right

yeah it was extremely lopsided i found myself uh watching games and say college football i'm not usually a college football guy like i'll tune in for some of the bigger games and in the playoffs but i found myself watching uh i forget what game it was on on because I was trying to watch the Canucks game. It wasn't available because I was in Seattle, so I had to watch it on my phone while also having a college football game in the meantime. Speaking of being in the States. Yeah, no, that's not me. That's a tough break.

But, yeah, it wasn't very exciting, and I was a little disappointed. So I'm hoping the next round of games, like you mentioned, they should be better, and I'm hoping they will be better. I think that's a low bar. Yes. I got what we learned from Justin East Van. Yep. He said, Thatcher Demko wore a new black skate mask to practice yesterday. You guys checked that out?

We did. It's got East Van, the cross on the side of it, with red lettering around the the letters s a v e oh i didn't notice that part to be honest and it's got a bit of a homage to the cory hirsch's old kind of mask i felt like with the just the way it was painted on the back especially and then the top of the mask is like a skull character it was pretty pretty scary look one of the better looking masks i've seen out of anyone in the league. Very cool. And I love the local iconography.

I love the Luongo looking up at the banners. That's a different mask. No, I know. I'm just saying, Demko's mask game, always thoughtful, always self-referential, incorporates local iconography in a sharp way, personal myth-building present in his mask with the zombies and sort of the zombie Johnny Canuck and weaving it all together. I mean, clearly a very creative individual

and very thoughtful about the art on his mask, just like he's extremely thoughtful of just about everything he does, including the way he stops pucks. And I will say, we don't have to get into the whole Ian Clark of it all, but the lack of Ian Clark allowing Thatcher Demko to go for the whole ian clark of it all but the lack of ian clark allowing thatcher demko to go for the all black pads and all of that i'm i'm super for that he's probably had a lot of these designs like cooked up and ready to go for like five years now he's just letting it all out of the bag the opportunity yeah um i do i don't know if i would uh i would

like it if he went full blue pads because i don't know if that ever looks good, but for the black skate one, the full black pads, those look good. I like that. Bose from Abbotsford texts in what we learned. Bedard versus Celebrini can be comparable to the Ovechkin versus Crosby debate. Bedard is

the OV in this scenario as a sniper slash goal scorer. Macklin Celebrini can be more comparable to Crosby or McDavid as more of a 200-foot player. With that being said, don't think either are ready for the Four Nations face-off. You know, I sort of agree, except that I think it would have been in Canada's best interests

to use this as at least an opportunity to blood those guys in best-on-best before 2024 when i do think they'll need them and and so you know obviously canada just wants to win this tournament and and i get it but for a 13th forward like it i do think it makes sense to keep a a light on for like a developmental roster spot in any event and and honestly macklin celebrini i think would have been a perfectly uh qualified inclusion i wonder, I think, would have been a perfectly qualified inclusion. I think either of them really would have been fine. For sure.

But Celebrini, I think, would be a better fit in terms of, like, which one of them could fill, like, a Konechny-type role. Fair enough. You know, I think Celebrini could be, like, a fourth liner on this team right now, whereas I don't know that you'd want that from Bedard. So, anyway, in any event, I sort of agree that they weren't ready.

And I love the idea of Bedard as an Ovechkin type and Macklin as a Crosby type and sort of a next-generation rivalry between two North Vancouver absolute lights-out talents. It's an incredible pipeline that is coming out of this city right now. It's great. It's going to be hard for them to be rivals when they're both on the same team in six years. Am I right? Anyway. Sorry.

Seven, right? Seven. Well, because Celebrini, I guess. Yeah. So six years for Bedard, seven for Celebrini. Who's counting? You, apparently. Most Canucks fans.

A lot of Canucks fans. I also, I do, I just want to see what Bedard would be like on a good team. You know what I mean? Like, do you think he has enough help in Chicago? No, no, no. I think it's a complete mess and it's made him look less impressive than he really is. You know, like, I'm not even here

for the celebration. He's, like, better than Bedard. I think he's made a better landing and a better scenario. ahead of ourselves in that time.

I don't think I've seen a better bet since Connor McDavid for a teenage player to hit, you know, the level of being one of the best hockey-playing humans on the planet

within five years of starting their NHL career with a realistic points over under as a career high of 140.5. I just think Bedard is special and the mess in Chicago shouldn't obscure it. Appreciate everyone texting in, everyone

listening to the show today. We'll be back tomorrow, 8am to 11 show today. We'll be back tomorrow, 8 a.m. to 11 a.m. Thank you to Zach and Laddie Producing. Thank you to Thomas Drance, my co-host. I've been Josh Elliott. Oh, you're welcome. Oh, hey. Thank you.

By the way, what we learned brought to you by AJ's Pizza. Get some pizza at AJ's Pizza. It's very tasty. Back tomorrow, Halpern and Brough, Josh Elliott, with Thomas Drance, Sportsnet 650. At AJ's Pizza. It's very tasty. Back tomorrow, Halpern and Brough, Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, and Sportsnet 650. Follow us on social at Sportsnet 650

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