Halford & Brough in the Morning - Should The Canucks Play Demko Less Next Season?

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason discuss the Thatcher Demko contract, and how the Canucks need to try and win in this window as well as manage Demko's games and health (3:00), plus they talk more Canucks with radio PxP man Brendan Batchelor (27:00).  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

🎵 703 on a Big Band Tuesday. You're listening to the Alfred and Ruff Show on Sportsnet 650. Alfred and Ruff in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda. Vancouver Honda is Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help you with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. I checked out Vancouver Honda over the weekend.

And it lives up to all the hype. It was the premier destination for Honda customers. It was early on a Saturday. Were there a lot of Hondas there? You know what? There were a lot of Hondas there. Is that where you're walking around? There are a lot of Hondas here.

I did. It stopped raining momentarily on Saturday morning. So I kind of did a stroll outside the dealership just to see what it was all about. Were you like, do you know what I hate? Toyotas. I did. I just walked around. Those Nissans.

The entire customer center yelling out, boo Nissan. Then they're like, sir, please leave. And I was like, no. That's how you can tell it's a Honda. I'm a Honda customer, and this is the premier destination for me, a Honda customer. What's the point of having a Honda if you can't show it off? We are in hour two of the Halford & Brough show. Halford & Brough in the morning, hour two, is brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer.

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Okay, this is just a quick PSA. To any of the texters that think that we were speaking directly or personally to you in the first hour, when we were talking about hate messages and internet trolls, I can assure you, we are not, I don't, there's so many of you that we're not talking to you any individually or personally.

Maybe a few of you. No, I'm not like someone just texted in and I'm like, we're not talking to anyone individually I don't think you quite understand how much negative feedback we get on a regular basis this is not directed at anyone individually we love you all even the listeners that get on our case if you've been blocked that's probably a sign that we don't love you as much but if your texts are still coming through, that means you're cool. I want to talk about this text from Steve from Prince George. I imagine PG. Hey guys, what did you think of the JT Miller,

Big Z, and Dan Murphy plus random guy golf game? Think it was a recruiting effort. Yeah. Murph texted a picture of him playing golf with JT Miller and Nikita Zdorov. And it looks like they're playing the home course of basketball, Ben Capilano. What did you hear about their games? I heard that JT Miller was striping the ball. I heard that both of them hit 18 and two, which is a par five uphill into the wind. Right. And I heard that it was a wild success. I, which is a par 5 uphill into the wind. Right. And I heard that it was a wild success.

I walked back to the men's locker room afterwards. I was putting in my scores. I could hear Zdorov's voice. I didn't want to go back there and be like, hey, are you signing here? Well, you should have. You should have gone back there and been like, excuse me, are you a member here? The random guy he's referring to, like, I know that guy. And so there was a bunch of them out there.

It looked like it was a fun time. Nice. A lot of people in the back. Murph said they're doing a godsend. So this means 100% that Zdorov is resigning with the Canucks? I saw Murph taking a selfie on hole 12 with them. Yeah, that's one he put out on Twitter. So Murph texted me and said that JT Miller was

hitting his three iron past Murph's driver. So JT Miller is quite long. Is that good? Okay. You just got to verify it. Very good. Anyway, the reason that we're bringing this up. Why don't we play with these guys? Three iron is the iron you play on

all the par threes. Okay. That's why it's called a three iron. Four iron, par fours. Oh, I didn't know that. No, yeah, that's how it works. I know very little about golf. You do realize this, right? Do you think I just told you the truth? It sounds correct, and I don't know enough about golf to dispute you.

Seven iron is for a par seven, Andy. I mean, it sounds like it matches up. Ben is rubbing his face in that very exasperated way when a parent has to talk to a child. The reason that we're doing this, this is instructive, though. I need a timeout. Because Murph golfing with Zdorov just got us all reminded that there's business to be done. And we're in a weird holding pattern now in the NHL

where deals can be consummated as jason bruff pointed out prior to going to break earlier things can happen there's kind of an unspoken moratorium during the stanley cup final where everyone's like don't take away from the big show don't do deals don't make trades the only thing that really ever interrupted it was glendale city council meetings back in 2015. They're like, those are going to go ahead. But everything else is like, just keep your deals in your back pocket. Nothing should take away from the grand spectacle that is the Stanley Cup Final. But make no mistake, everyone's doing work right now.

And the Cup Final hasn't started. I was reading an article. Like Saturday, you don't start deals. But this week, we heard from Frank that Marty Natchez could be traded this week. Yes, you do have some time to get things done. This week could be a profound one because anyone that wants to get their business in ahead of time. By the way, Pierre LeBrun had an article up talking about how much pressure Ken Holland and Bill Zito are going to be under if this series goes seven games. Because if the Stanley Cup final ends on June 24th,

they both acknowledged it. They're like, we'll put everything on the back burner. It's a small price to pay for potentially winning a Stanley Cup. But as soon as the series is over, our lives are going to be hell. Unmittingly hell. The draft is going to be hilarious. We'll take you. You over there.

You look tall. They're going to have just jerseys with no names or numbers on the back because they didn't have time. They're just going to hand them out to guys. But there is going to be a real crunch if this series goes the distance at the end. But before any of that happens, deals can be consummated. So you mentioned Marty Natchez, the pending RFA, or I guess he has a full-fledged RFA now for the Carolina Hurricanes.

No, not until July 1st. Oh, right. Not until July 1st. So pending RFA. It sounds as though Natchez, who has been at the center of a number of trade talks, could get dealt before Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Final on Saturday. The reasons for this?

One, sounds as though there's a bunch of suitors, aside from the Vancouver Canucks, who are interested in acquiring the young man's services. Two, it does not sound as though he will be back in Carolina it sounds like that yeah fracture or divorce is pretty much finalized uh you know the complaints from his father about his deployment in Carolina and the fact that nothing's really changed on that front like the head coach who's making those decisions is still firmly entrenched there.

The management group who oversaw a lot of this is still there, even though Don Waddell has moved on. So there's a definite possibility of a move there. They've got a lot of work to do in Carolina. It's going to be... So a couple different writers, including Corey Lavallette from the North State Journal, who's covered the team for a long time,

wrote that this might be one of the most transformative off-seasons in franchise history since they moved to Carolina. And one big move already happened. Don Waddell's gone. He's no longer the general manager of the team. He's now the general manager of the Columbus Blue Jackets. So there are a handful of UFAs, including the rental, the big rental, Jake Gensel, who they're reportedly interested in keeping but may move on.

But they've got a lot of decisions to make on guys at a time where they yet again fell short in the playoffs. They've always been traditionally, especially under Tom Dundon, a run-it-back team. Like, we're going to run it back with the majority of our guys. We will let some people go go but the core is the core and that mean you can identify who those guys are um i'll be very curious to see how many of the guys they decide to bring back now if the genzel's the big one because genzel's gonna have a number

of suitors now in that sense like he doesn't he has no intention of signing that lebrun piece said that it sounds more and more like he is going to go to July 1 while keeping Carolina as a legitimate option. They always say that, though. Well, that's what they did with Dougie Hamilton. They're like, we'll let you go to market. If you want to come back, the offer is here for you. We'll keep it in a cupboard or a drawer somewhere. And then ultimately, nine times out of ten, almost ten out of ten, guys end up going somewhere else.

Because if they want if they wanted to sign there they they would do it yeah you know um i know you want to have a conversation about thatcher demko well yeah it was interesting to me so yesterday when we were doing the new york rangers autopsy we had arthur staple on the show from the athletic in new york and then in the subsequent uh time after we got off the air i was doing a bunch of reading about Igor Shostakhin. So Shostakhin is going in. Shostakhin's available to sign an extension on July 1, right? He's going into the last year of his current deal.

And there's a lot of talk that Shostakhin could end up being the highest paid goalie in NHL history. Per Molly Walker from the New York Daily News, there's reason to believe that Shesterkin's camp is aiming for as high as $12 million a year, which would be an NHL record-setting cap hit for a goalie. Now, don't forget the cap's going up. You'll remember that the Rangers have gone down this road before.

They gave Henrik Lundqvist a 15-year contract way back in the day that had a gargantuan dollar total on it as well. The bar for goalies was set with Carey Price making $10.5 million a year and then Sergey Bobrovsky, who just beat the New York Rangers, getting a seven-year $70 million deal that also had a $10 million cap in it. So there are a couple goalies that have gotten into the double digits. Shesterkin looks as though he'll be the next one. I would say, yeah, makes sense.

Okay. He's a star goalie for New York. They've got a history of doing this. He was probably the biggest reason that they got to Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals this year. He's got a Vezna in his cabinet. I don't want to say he's the entirety of the team, but he's a large chunk of it. Then I started thinking about Thatcher Demko.

Because Thatcher Demko is actually going into, let's call it his Shostakhin year. After next season, Demko will be eligible to sign an extension. He fits a lot of the same characteristics, age, trends, and trajectories as Shosturkin. Demko's coming off what is, I mean, let's be honest, I think it's the best season of his career. Even with the injuries, he got nominated for his first Vesna. He's getting into that age territory. Shostakhin's 28 this year. Now, there's a real interesting dynamic at play with Demko moving forward that takes him in a totally different

conversation and direction, which is what I wanted to go here. One is his health. And two is, I don't know what Silovs represents other than a guy that's going to be his backup this year. But for Demko moving forward,

this year suddenly becomes profoundly important. And it does for the team too with Demko at this contract. $5 million. Great contract for the Canucks. What do you think his cap hit would be if he was a free agent and signed right now? Nine?

Around there? Whatever. Regardless, the Canucks are getting millions and millions of dollars in value. And they're getting value with Quinn Hughes as well. Andre Vasilevsky, who is a Vesna caliber guy, and I'd put Demko in the same territory right now as Shesterkin,

Vasilevsky, Hellebuck. I'd put him in that conversation. You're in the conversation. You're in the conversation. Maybe slightly below some of those guys. Certainly, he hasn't done as much as Vasilevsky, but Vasilevsky is starting to show a few. He's maybe showing his age a little bit.

I would say Demko is a Vesna candidate. Say what you will about the Vesna caliber candidacy, who's voting on it and whatever there are people general managers in the National Hockey League that view him as being one of the three best goalies in the NHL so he's in a conversation in some way shape

or form Andre Vasilevsky is coming in at a 9.5 million dollar cap hit right and Hellebuck's not far off it I'd say you're probably looking in between 8 and 9 for Demko if he just became available right now. And they're like, you can sign Thatcher

Demko, start the bidding war, go. With the amount of teams that need a goalie and how good he's been, I would say 8 or 9. And this isn't a doomsday thing, dear listeners. I just want everyone to know that.

I'm not trying to go down the road of, look at the cap hell that the Vancouver Canucks are going to get in. I think it's more an instructive thing that for all the good contracts that the Canucks have right now, Demko and Quinn Hughes among them, every year is a year closer to that contract being up and having to renegotiate. And I think it speaks to something you always talk about. Planning is almost eternal.

It never stops. You never stop looking ahead. You never stop planning for the future. And you never stop looking at what happens not just a year from now, but two years from now and three years from now. What happens to this window? How long can we extend it? How long do we realistically have under it?

With Demko, I think a big part of this now is after the last two seasons, number one question for me, is he going to be able to stay healthy for an entire calendar year and into the playoffs? That's the goal now, right? And part of that's on the team to make sure that he's not overworked.

I mean, you want to talk about that he's not overworked. I mean, you want to talk about Newark. That's why Shelov's is such a blessing. You can give him more games. Demko has to play less. Shelov plays more. And you can do it because Shelov's is good. Yeah, and I think that's what's maybe going to be the most interesting thing about next season is you're coming off a year in which you had great team success

and Demko played such a huge part in it. When the Canucks were rolling in the first half of the season and through January, Demko was a rock. Probably why he's up for the Vesna. And then he got hurt. Then he came back.

And then he got hurt again. Do you think it's difficult in season to play Demko less? I think it's easier now to say it like, okay we have Sealoz who would love to play 25 games, let's just say.

But then you have three games in a week. Why would you not play Demko? I think in the moment we're trying to get off to a good start. If there's three games in five or six days and you're kind of like, well he, we're trying to, you know, we want to get off to a good start. If there's three games in five or six days and you're kind of like, well, he's got a rest day every time.

Right. Like we're talking about how they wanted to get off to a good start. Well, you want your best goalie in there. I feel like the Canucks were guarding against a collapse all season. Yeah. I think so too.

Do you know what I mean? Like they were just like, we cannot, we got to keep this going. We got to keep it going. And any little bit of adversity was treated with an emergency type level response. Like that Minnesota game in February where they were just like, what is happening right

now? Is this the Canucks? What's going on? I think that's where they lost faith into Smith though. You know, that game. Because he started out really well. And then that game, and he really had to, if

Demko had been in there for that game, he would have been yanked. But because he was the backup, they had to keep him in there. But I. And you're just like, you're going to take this and you're going to, you're going to get eight or nine goals against, I think one was

an empty netter somehow. Yeah. I think it was two empty netters. I think it was eight against. Because they scored like five goals to Canucks and like the third. Right. It was such a blur.

Now, here's the thing. I don't, this isn't to lay blame. Like, again, I think the listeners will hear this and they'll be like, you guys are setting us up to blame someone or doomsday. I don't blame Talkett and the coaching staff at all for being concerned about a collapse because I don't know if you watch this team the couple years prior,

they would collapse with regularity. But usually right from the start of the season. Yeah, but they did it at the end too. Sometimes in the middle. Like a bridge without cables. Down it goes, right? But when you go back and look at it, 50 wins and 109 points is great. Like you firmly established yourself as a good team in the NHL.

You won a round. You took the Oilers. You won the division. You yourself as a good team in the NHL. You won a round. You took the Oilers. You won the division. You were the first place team in the Pacific. You were better than the Oilers who were on their way to the Stanley Cup final. You beat the Oilers multiple times during the regular season. I wonder if now they're going to take a slight step back and say that the regular season success that we have achieved

now needs to be understood that that's what we are, and there's a standard set. It's dangerous, man. It's dangerous. This is the dangerous part. One season, and then what happens if the Canucks... There's going to be a lot of changes. Right, and let's say that Edmonton plays better in the regular season, actually doesn't get off to a bad start,

and Vegas is still there, and LA is still getting better, right? And then let's say the Canucks miss the playoffs by four points maybe they're not healthy maybe they're not as healthy as they were and you played sea laws for 25 games and you look at this coaching staff and be like really so you didn't want to play your number one goalie in a game in January that you could have won it's a risky proposition it's a risky proposition for coaches and how much to play the goalies and it's a risky proposition for general managers and how much to play the goalies. And it's a risky proposition for general managers in how much to pay goalies, because we've seen highly paid goalies and like

Vasilevsky won a couple Stanley cups, but the last three, if I'm remembering the cup winners correctly, uh, or the last two at least, what was it, Kemper and Aiden Hill? Those are hardly, those are hardly like number, you know, top five goalie in the NHL. And if the Oilers win this year,

you're going to have Stuart Skinner, whose cap hit is what, two and a half million dollars? He's only 25 years old. His mustache is 38, but he's only 25. Look at what the Canucks did this year in the playoffs. With their second and third string goalie.

It's always. They were in one goal of getting to the Western Conference final with Arthur Shelovs in that. It's always tempting to go cheap on goalies because you can, let's say you go with a $2 million goalie. Um, and some teams will do that. Yep. Like the LA Kings this year, right?

You can then get, uh, I don't know what a six or $7 million additional skater. Yeah. That's a huge difference. Why Vegas? It's a huge difference. Why Vegas is now cheaped out on the goalies. Yeah.

Now the Oilers didn't choose this because they signed Jack Campbell. So they've got $5 million kind of like wasting on their books. But, you know, if, if Stuart Skinner is able to get the job done for the Edmonton Oilers, then more and more people are going to be like, ah, you know, the Oilers can do this. If the Oilers had a $9 million goalie in there, granted, he might be better than Stuart Skinner, so that would make up for it, but would they have been able to afford to add Matias Ekholm or Zach Hyman? Very important players for them.

If you looked at the Western Conference final, I would have said that the biggest disparity between those two teams was in net. That was the biggest advantage that Dallas probably had. Everywhere else, they were you know, I know nobody's McDavid, nobody's Dreisaitl, but the collective depth of the Stars forwards, I thought, would maybe neutralize or mitigate

what Edmonton had. But I looked at it, and I'm like, on paper, the Stars should have a decided advantage with Jake Ottinger over Stuart Skin skinner and it never played out over the series because goalies are unpredictable right and laddie's not here so we can we can talk trash about goalies you cannot trust goalies ever now especially it's true laddie it's so freeing it's so liberating yeah he's like actually yeah but when you talk about the big paycheck for them though because with shisterkin it's almost like's almost like, well, what are you going to do, New York?

Are you not going to resign him and give him all that money? He's worth it, and he's your best player. And I think both those things are true. But when you look at the deal, you're like, yeah, but we just saw this play out a few years ago with Lundqvist. They paid Lundqvist because at the time, he was the best goalie probably on the planet, or one of them anyway.

But he was everything to New York. And they've got that history and lineage. And they're already talking. There's a marketing aspect to it, though, right? The Rangers didn't want to let Lundquist go. No. Mike Richter. Or first it started with Eddie Jackman.

But then it went Mike Richter, Henrik Lundquist, Igor Shosturkin. Like, that's the lineage of all-time Rangers goalies. And all three of the guys, Jackman and Richter and Lundqvist, their numbers are all retired. You know what I was wondering the other day? How much of a decision on whether to trade a star player or not is based on the fact that you've already sold a bunch of jerseys for the guy? Yeah.

He's part of your marketing plan. Yeah. You got to get the banner guys out or the mural guys out if you trade one of the players. You got to paint the side of the building. How much work do you think it was when the Canucks traded Horvat? A lot. To go through the arena and just deal with it all?

He was in all their in arena, like the videos and stuff too, right? All the videos had to get edited like that was probably a big deal isn't that funny to think about it like all we think about is purely the hockey operations and it's gonna take so much work yeah it's like oh you know what it'd be a lot easier if you just keep them yeah we were gonna trade it but then we thought about all the work we had to do it's your captain it's your captain right but when it's your captain he's the work we had to do. It's your captain, right? Kind of talked ourselves out of it. But when it's your captain, he's the de facto guy to do all the stuff that's part of being a captain. You got to do the stuff that nobody else wants to do.

Pose for this. Appear in this. Kiss this baby. Sign this baby's forehead. All that stuff. Did Horvat kiss a lot of babies? Yeah, and sign their foreheads afterwards. You got a two for one there.

Okay, coming up on the halftime. Sign their little golf shirts. I have a golf shirt just like this. I like the way this looks. Coming up on the Halftime Breath Show on Sportsnet 650, Brendan Batchelor, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks. You're listening to the Halftime Breath Show on Sportsnet 650. Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance.

We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. It's his friend and bachelor, bachelor, bachelor. Life from Rogers Arena, calling Canucks games. It is Brendan Bacheloratchelor. Batchelor. Batchelor. 7.31 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650.

Halford Brough in the morning is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Accurate Ealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today by visiting your nearest Dilawri Accurate Ealer today. We are in Hour 2 of the program. Brendan Batchelor is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour two of this show is brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer. Meticulously brewed for quality and taste, Primetime is full flavor without compromise. You can get

some, get some, at a liquor store near you, or you can visit the brewery to see how it's made. I love the liquor store. I do too. I just like toor Store. I do, too. I just like to go browse. Real Candyland. Browse?

Oh, you're one of those guys, eh? Yeah. Browse? You want to grab anything? I'm just looking. Sometimes sample them. You can't open that in store, sir. I do love the sample station. No, no, no.

Not a sample station. He means just he'll steal stuff. Just a sip here and a sip there. You can't do that? I thought you could do that. Put a cap back on? Somebody should have told me. To the phone lines we go.

Brandon Batchelor joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Batch. How are you? I'm well. How are you guys? We're good. We were talking extensively throughout the show about the abuse and the accusations and the taunts hurled at people

on social media, sometimes unfairly. And then I remembered, oh yeah, Batch got a bunch of that last week when you dared, dared mention the possibility of trading Brock Besser. Would you like to hash this out now? We've got an entire half hour here.

It's your segment. I know that you kind of got both radioed and ratioed. Yeah, Batch, why do you want to trade Brock Besser? He's a good guy. Let's start there. Well, okay, so I think we need to set, like, yes, the clip made its rounds on Twitter. But we were having a conversation.

I was on with Jamie and Bick last week, and we were talking about Philip Hronik and about, like, the merits of keeping him or trading him and and you know we we got into all the art garfunkel stuff with drance from last week like so it was it was a whole thing um but then i think jamie very rightly brought up the point he said you know we're talking about who's the core of this team and who you consider a core player. And, you know, Philip Aaronic is a guy that's outside of that core group. I think in my mind, like to me,

the core group of this team is Patterson Miller, Demko and Hughes. And so then Jamie says, okay, well, let's look at Brock Besser too, because he is a player with one year of team control left who could be do a big payday. Just like Philip Aaronic is a player with one year of team control left who could be due a big payday just like philip aronic is a player with one year of team control left at this point that is going to be due a big payday this summer if you don't consider besser part of the core what do you see his future being as someone that

you know if he has another big year could be due a big payday and so in all of that context i said there is a good argument to be made for trading Brock Besser right now because his value is high. Does that mean I'm trying to ship him out of town? No, of course not. decisions on some of these guys look at the chicago blackhawks and how they continue to be relevant and push their contention window by moving on from guys like dustin bufflin and andrew ladd and the list goes on and you know they extended their window longer by you know not overspending on some of these players that were great players for them in big parts of their team um but you know had

they you know tied up all their money in some of those players then it might have prevented their ability to win and you know extending that conversation on from just desser and looking at all of the potential ufas going into this summer that's a tough needle to thread for the canucks because they had a good year and a lot of these guys gave them good minutes and that would be great to have as many of them back as possible. But at the same time, what do you do in terms of limiting your ability to get better as a group if you tie up too much money in guys that you don't necessarily consider core players on your roster? And also we have to adjust our thinking a a little bit too to these guys with one year left before they're free agents because the Canucks will now, and Canucks fans will now,

expect the team to make the playoffs. And it used to be a lot easier to go into a season with a guy with one year left before he's UFA. You're like, well, just trade him at the deadline if you can't sign him, right? That's not really applicable. Hopefully it's not applicable next season. Hopefully the Canucks are into a playoff position

when the trade deadline hits, but let's say they are and Brock Besser is still a pending UFA, then you get into this position that, well, the Calgary Flames went through it with Johnny Goudreau and then he just, he left. Now I'm not saying that Brock Besser would choose to leave Vancouver like Johnny Goudreau would. I think that's a different situation, but there might be a question of whether or not the Canucks can afford to give Brock Besser the money that he deserves, right? Yeah, that's like the entire point I'm making, essentially. And, you know, we can talk like Philip Hironik's situation's

different because he's a restricted free agent this year. But the conversation around Philip Hironik coming off a career year for him is, can the Canucks afford to give him the money that he wants or deserves? And that's the exact conversation we're having about Brock Besser he's coming off a career year yes he's still got a year left on the deal so it's not as pressing as the Heronic situation but can the Canucks afford to give him the money he deserves especially if he goes out and is on another 40 goal pace kind of season prior to the trade deadline which based on the way he played with JT Miller this past year is certainly possible. You know, the other point I've made as well is that this was basically the first year that Besser has been healthy throughout the season, with the exception of the blood clotting

issue that held him out of game seven. So you could look at that two ways. You could say, okay, that's great. He's been healthy. He can continue to trend in the right direction. Or you can say, this is a guy that's been injury prone. that going to happen again is his value going to be any higher than it is right now like you know they're the this is not just a cut and dry Brock Besser had 40 goals he's a great player they have to bring him back situation especially when you juxtapose that with the fact that they've already committed 11.6 million dollars per season to Elias Pettersson and I know that's a touchy conversation right now because of how well Besser played in the playoffs

and how poorly Pettersson played in the playoffs and people will be saying well why did you commit that money to Pettersson when it might be better allocated to Besser but we know in terms of upside Pettersson is the better player he's proven that in his career now he obviously didn't play well down the stretch, and if that continues into next season, then there could be some big questions of him and his play and of that $11.6 million payday that the Canucks gave him. But it's recency bias here to say that they should be giving Besser that kind of money instead, I would say. Do you think the Filiperonics situation will be figured out one way or another before July 1st? You would hope so. Um, but, uh, I have, like, I don't have a feel for how, how the negotiations are going, right? Like I would

imagine the Canucks management is sitting down with all of the guys they want to bring back and trying to hash out as much as they can prior to July 1st because the more certainty you have on who is coming back with your UFAs and your RFAs then the better prepared you are to go into free agency and understand what cap space you have and what you can spend and what you can't and who you need to target because in a world where you know they they don't have philip heronic locked up by then or they don't have certainty with it one way or another you know you you need to figure out what your blue line is going to look like and you need to you know try and round that out so i mean i think the canucks would love to

have certainty on that but that's going to depend on, you know, how the two sides dig their heels in in the negotiations. And everything we've heard right now is that Hironic is asking for a lot more money than the Canucks are asking for. Now, with this organization in particular, I think we've seen that there will be sort of no news on a negotiation and people will think that it's far apart. And then, you know, within hours, they can announce that they've signed an extension. So they can get these things done quickly when they need to. But, you know, would I be surprised if they sign him before July 1st?

No, I wouldn't. Would I be surprised if they don't sign him before July 1st and he's one of the guys on the arbitration list and we're talking about him going into a hearing later in the summer? I wouldn't be surprised at that either based on some of the things we've heard about how far apart they are on a number right now um do you think the canucks would like ideally like to see heronic on his own pair yes because i think it was alvin who specifically said that at the end-of-season press conference.

And, you know, it's hard because he and Hughes played so well together, and I think Hughes likes playing with him a lot. And you can understand why. You know, he had an offensively tremendous season, like a career year did Hughes. He's probably going to win the Norris Trophy. And Philip Heronic does deserve credit for that, right? Like he did elevate Quinn Hughes on that pairing.

But to me, you know, the second pair and having another guy that can move the puck and create offense and drive play on another pairing is important because I think as much as Hironik really helped Quinn Hughes, I think it limits his upward potential being the guy that just has to get the puck to Quinn Hughes, rather than being a guy that can drive play himself and create offense

himself and be the guy that his partner is trying to get the puck to so he can make plays. Now the problem with all of that is that we didn't see it this year. So the Canucks can think that he's a guy that can drive his own pair, can want him to be a guy that can drive his own pair, but they don't know that he's a guy that can drive his own pair. And that's what makes this whole conversation even that much more complex, is because if you're going to sign him and give him term

and give him relatively and give him, you know, relatively big dollar, shall we say you're doing it on the hope and belief that, that he can be a guy that can have that level of impact without having actually seen it this past year. Now I'm confident that if they want to bring Heronic back, if they think that,

you know, he's the best fit for them, if they like the fact that, you know, they could try to use him on his own pairing, then I think Hronik could be a guy that could be a good second-pairing defenseman and lead a pair and help generate offense, especially if he's healthy. We saw what he did in the first half of the season as opposed to the second half of the season

from an offensive production standpoint. But you are sort of betting on something that you're you don't know for sure about and that's what will make this whole conversation really interesting and that's what makes the dollar amount interesting and then you know on top of all of that if you don't think the dollar amount makes sense or you don't think he's going to be able to drive his own pair and you want to move on from him it's not just like okay well we won't resign him and open up that cap space like he's a restricted free agent you've got to find a trade partner for him you've got to get what you feel is fair value for him on

the open market and depending on how other teams around the league feel about him that might not be possible either so you know this is this is an interesting situation to see how it's going to play out one way or another, because even if the Canucks don't want to pay him a certain amount and feel that it's not fair to keep him, if they can't find a trade partner for him, they may have to or go to arbitration. And at that point, it's a coin flip in terms of what sort of dollar amount he's going to get on an award in a hearing. How do you think they're going to add more speed? That's something that Patrick Galvin said he wants to add,

and everyone says, well, Martin H.S. is fast, but there's going to be a lot of teams interested in Martin H.S. I mean, he is available, and I'm sure Carolina's been fielding a lot of calls on him. Let's say the Canucks don't get him. Are there any names? I'm putting you on the spot here. I know you're not a pro scout, but are there any names that come to mind?

Yeah, let me dig into my Rolodex here and figure out exactly who. Not really off the top of my head. If I look at the free agent list this year, there are some high-end offensive guys that I can imagine the Canucks targeting in terms of you know wanting to improve offense at the top of their roster but they don't necessarily scream

speed to me right like Sam Reinhardt's a UFA right now if I'm not mistaken Jake Gensel, Tyler Bertuzzi, Tevo Teravita like these are all wingers who could provide more offensive upside and are the kind of players you could imagine them targeting at the top of their lineup, as they've always talked about, you know, wanting another top six forward. But I don't think of any of those guys as tremendous burners, although, you know, having Sam Reinhardt in your group would be a tremendous coup if something like that were to happen, although his payday is going to be colossal after the year he had. But, you know, really, when you look at speed in particular, Natchez is the guy that jumps out. And, you know, because that's a trade situation rather than a

signing situation, we'll have to wait and see, you know, if that's something the Canucks could pull off or maybe if they have other names that they would target in terms of um in terms of trades or or guys further down the lineup that can bring more of that speed because um you know this is all going to depend on who stays and who goes and with the forward group you know in the bottom six if dakota joshua is not back who are you replacing him with um so there's lots of conversations to be had here about how they acquire that speed and that's going to be the test for them is you know if you could go and get a guy like natius and you can get it done say in the next week or two here before uh the draft or before free agency

that that is a big feather in your cap in terms of adding speed and adding that top six forward that you've talked about wanting to bring in but if that doesn't materialize or you can't make that happen then what do you do and who are the players that you target is is a great question and that's where this organization has to lean on its pro scouting which to their credit has served them very well through this point you know like even a guy like Sam Lafferty, who I know was in and out of the lineup at times and played a depth role, they got him for a fifth-round pick on the eve of the season. And if there's one thing that Sam Lafferty brought,

it was speed on the wing. So there are lots of ways to, you know, target a particular issue, like speed if you want it or size and physicality if you want it. And we know that the Canucks value all of those things. And, you know, if you can't get the big name or you can't hit the big home run in terms of a free agent signing or a trade right away, then that's where you have to lean on your professional scouts and lean on the guys that found you Dakota Joshua and and you know others throughout the last couple of years to try and help you you know work on these issues and find the kind of players you want that you think will fit under Rick Talkett's style as well which I

think is another important part of this conversation and ultimately allow you to try and win and continue to win next year they might have to dramatically rebuild their penalty killing unit too. If you look at the six guys that played the most shorthanded in the playoffs, Ian Cole, Teddy Bluger, Elias Lindholm, Tyler Myers, Nikita Zdorov, Dakota Joshua, all unrestricted free agents. I guess that has to be a consideration as well. And also who's going to run the penalty kill considering that Mike Yeo departed the organization. I imagine they could give that to Adam Foote,

but until we know for sure, we don't know. Yeah. And I would imagine that they're going to bring in another full-time assistant. So that may be one of the things that they are looking for in terms of someone they bring in. It's someone that has a coaching profile with the penalty kill

or potentially the power play, because we know how much the power play struggled, and that was kind of Rick Talkett's file throughout this season. So do you want to try and take that off his plate and have someone that can run that too? So that's going to be an interesting decision and yeah like we know how much a bad penalty kill can hamstring you because we saw it happen to the Canucks not this season but last season in terms of you know being a historically bad penalty kill struggling there was all sorts

of talk about personnel and and how they needed to improve that this year. And they did it, right? You look at all those guys, like you're talking about all those guys who are pending free agents. Most of those guys are also guys they brought in to help the penalty kill and they did. So now you've got to do that again, especially if most of those guys aren't coming back. Like that another big factor here we talk about top six forwards we talk about speed you also need to have guys down your lineup that can fill a role for you on special teams on the penalty kill in particular because we saw throughout this season how much they value penalty killing ability based on some of the lineup decisions that rick talkett made where you know if you were a guy like Phil DiGiuseppe, for example,

who killed penalties in certain situations, he wasn't one of their biggest penalty killers, but he would get into the lineup over other guys at times, or like Nils Oman got big opportunity in the lineup because of his value to the organization as a penalty killer. So if you're going to be a bottom six forward on this team you've got to be someone that could kill penalties and you've got to be someone that could do it well so in terms of rebuilding the penalty kill um you know figuring

out how the bottom six makeup's going to look figuring out what your bottom two defensive pairings look like and ultimately bringing in an assistant coach to work with rick talk at an out of foot like the penalty kill to me has to be right at the top of that list in terms of things they have to target in all of those facets. And then, you know, we could talk about the power play as well, which it's going to be interesting to see what changes there in terms of personnel, potentially, if they bring in someone like Natchez or a top six forward. And then in terms of coaching, if they bring in a coach that can help them improve in that regard as well. There are a lot of balls in the air for this team.

Like it's a very complicated off season. But the one thing I will notice, I do notice, is that, and this isn't surprising, but there is so much more trust in this front office to solve the issues. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, because they've done it, right? We saw what they did last year and the players they brought in and how well things worked out with those players. So, you know, I think this fan base gets a bad rap sometimes for, you know, being negative and always critical. But I think what we've seen

with alvin and rutherford is how quickly they've been able to turn that narrative around with basically one year of good moves like if you think back to or i guess 18 months now but like you think back to how hostile the market was with the way boudreaux was let go and everything like that. And then within a few weeks of that, Horvat was gone and Hronik was in. And then they made the moves they made in the summer and they came into this season with a better, more solid blue line and a better, more solid penalty kill and had the season that they did. That's all it took for this fan base to be like, all right, man, we're in.

You guys have the wheel. We trust where you're going to take it. Let's go. So that is a welcome change rather than sort of the hand-wringing that we're used to in this market over the way that summers are going to be managed by the organization. And having that trust in this management group is important because you're right right with the number of

balls in the air the way the organization approaches and deals with this summer and how they figure it out and who's back and who isn't and who gets big money and who doesn't like this was one of the points i was making in that initial conversation about besser that that caught so much heat online is these are hard decisions to make. And the way you manage this summer is not just going to define whether the Canucks will be a good team or a playoff team next year. It defines how long their window is. You know, how much opportunity does this core group have to have success? Because you make some smart moves, you bring in some good complementary players, you figure out a way to manage your cap in a way that allows you to continue to grow and

have success, then, you know, your window extends a little bit longer, in my opinion. Whereas if you, on the other side of things, commit money to players that had career years that maybe are not going to provide that level of play for you again, or maybe are starting to get a little older and, and, you know, won't be able to be as consistent as they were this past season over the next few years, then you limit your window. So, um, you know, obviously because the playoffs for this team only just ended a few weeks ago, we're all in the mindset of, okay, how do they win next year? How do you bring as many of these guys back so you can have success? At the same time, this management group has to look a little bit to the medium term here and say, okay, we need to make decisions that make

our team competitive now, but we can't do it while sacrificing our team's chances to remain competitive for three or four more years, potentially with guys like, you know, Besser and Demko and their contracts coming up and needing to figure out how to have the cap space to bring those guys back to, if you want to.

Batch. Thanks for this buddy. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the week. We'll do this again next week. Sounds good. Thanks boys. Have a good one.

Thank you. Brennan Batchelor, play by play voice of the Vancouver Canucks here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Coming up on the Halford & Brough Show, it's the final hour on a Tuesday. BC Alliance President Dwayne Vigneault is going to join us on the other side of the break. After Dwayne, we're going to give away tickets to see Snoop at Rogers Arena on June 25th.

He will be joined by Warren G and DJ Quick. If you want tickets for that, you need to send in what we learned. Hashtag it WWL. Let us know what you learned over the last 24 hours in sports. Dunbar Lumber text line is 650-650. Don't forget, put a ticket emoji into your text. You'll be entered into the contest to win tickets to see Snoop at Rogers Arena on June 25th. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.