Halford & Brough in the Morning - Team Petey Vs. Team Miller

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

In hour one, Halford and guest host Jamie Dodd look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), including last night's OT Canucks loss in Utah (6:00), plus they set up tonight's 'Nucks action in Vegas (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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It is Brough. No, wait, it's Jamie Dodd. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jamie, good morning. Good morning. Hey, dawg. Good morning to you.

Good morning. Good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Hello. Alfred and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts.

We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by Northstar Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. Northstar Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver we are coming to you live from the Kintec studio Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star google reviews sore feet what are you waiting for Kintec we got a big show ahead on a Thursday guest list will begin at seven o'clock yes that means it's

one uninterrupted hour of Halford and Dodd from 6 to 7. We will look back on the Canucks game last night, 3-2 overtime loss to the plucky, resilient Utah Hockey Club. And then there's no rest for the weary because the Canucks are back in action tonight, 7 o'clock, from T-Mobile Arena in Vegas. So, first hour, we'll take care of all that. Guest list begins at 7. Nick Shook, our good buddy from NFL.com, is going to join us.

Yeah, we're going to do some NFL talk today. Big Thursday night or tonight. Broncos, Chargers in L.A. Battle for not supremacy of the AFC West, but second place in the AFC West. We'll also use Nick to preview a terrific Saturday lineup. Yeah, Saturday football this week, folks. You've got Houston at KC at 10 a.m. on Saturday, followed by Pittsburgh at Baltimore at 1.30, so we'll talk to

Nick Schuch about all that at 7 o'clock. 7.30, Jesse Granger from the athletic Vegas Golden Knights beat writer is going to join the program. Again, as I mentioned, 7 o'clock tonight from Vegas. It's the Canucks. It's the Golden Knights. We will talk to Jesse about a red-hot Vegas team that's won five of their last six, nine of their last 12, including a 3-2 win over Minnesota on Sunday. So it's also a well-rested team because they haven't played since Sunday. Jesse Granger will join us at 7.30 to talk about all that.

8 o'clock, it's the Drancer, Thomas Drance from The Athletic Vancouver. Big career moment for you, getting to talk to Thomas Drance. I know that's a rarity. Very exciting for Jamie. Canucks Vegas, 7 o'clock, we mentioned that. Pre-game, post-game, actual game, all right here on Sportsnet 650. If I am not mistaken, and I have been repeatedly throughout this week, just the second back-to-back that the Canucks have played this season,

the first on the road, and the last back-to-back was in mid-November at home when they beat Chicago on a Saturday and then lost to Nashville on a Sunday. Fact check it all you like. If it's wrong, I'll just throw my shoulders out. Who cares? Yeah. It's me, Alfred, and I'm on vacation today.

So we're going to talk to Drance at 8, Jesse Granger at 7.30, Nick Shook at 7. I should also remind you that we got only two days left in this contest, today and tomorrow, but every day this week we've been giving away tickets, a pair of tickets, to see the PWHL Takeover Tour

that's coming through Rogers Arena on January the 8th. Rogers is a proud partner and fan of the PWHL. Here's how it's going to work. Caller number five, one, two, three, four,

five at eight 15 this morning. We'll win a pair of tickets to the PWHL takeover tour. The phone number six Oh four, two eight Oh zero six 50. That phone number again, six Oh four, two eight Oh zero six 50 B caller number five at eight 15 this morning to win a That phone number again, 604-280-0650. Be caller number 5 at 8.15 this morning to win a pair of tickets to the PWHL Takeover Tour.

Okay, that's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that?

What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. The Vancouver Canucks held a multi-goal lead, a two-goal lead in the third period yesterday. Prior to last night, they'd only lost one of those games once, but it was two now. Mikhail Sergeyev scored 448 into overtime. Utah, 3-2 winners over the visiting Vancouver Canucks on Wednesday night at the Delta Center.

Yeah, their first visit to Utah and didn't start off very well for the Canucks. They were on the back foot in a big way in the first period, really struggled to move the puck. I thought Utah's speed gave them fits as well. It felt like Utah had one prolonged shift in the offensive zone about five minutes in and then it almost seemed like the Canucks just went into hot potato mode, right? It was back to off the glass and out and dump it in and you're just tired and get to the bench. No one was making a play. No one was holding on to pucks

as Rick Talkett would say. fortunately, as Utah piled up chances off the rush and breakaways, one, I mean, they kept trying to make the extra pass and blowing really good opportunities. But two, Thatcher Demko was really good to keep it at 0-0 going into the break. Second period, much better for the Canucks. They were able to slow down Utah. They actually had control of the puck a little bit, which is always nice. And they opened the scoring when

Danton Heinen made a nice finish. Big bounce off the end boards. That was kind of a theme on the broadcast last night. Danton Heinen on the power play? Yeah, the second power play. Incredible. Which we'll talk about. The power play units. Oh, we will talk about the power play units. We'll continue. The station's putting Twitter

polls out there and stuff. It was anyways dan heinen takes a finish off a big bounce off the end boards uh makes a nice finish to a nice play to open the scoring one nothing lead for the canucks canucks opened up a two nothing lead in the third period when dakota joshua showed a great burst of speed got open for a breakaway held held off the back check, completely clowned Vijmelka for his second goal of the season, likely sparked by us lighting a fire under him yesterday on the show and wondering if he could come out of the lineup. When in doubt, thank the morning show.

You're welcome for that. And great to see Dakota Joshua with a big-time play like that as he continues to find his legs. So 2-0 in the third period, as you said, Utah notah not done first clayton keller who was really dangerous all night i thought we all knew he was a good player i think but it was just hard to like grasp in arizona because it was such a ridiculous situation he's a really good player anyways he grabbed a rebound made a really nice play to beat demko and then with myers in the box on a pretty soft cross-checking call,

Dylan Gunther, you knew he was going to figure into this somehow. His shot deflected off of Teddy Bluger, passed Demko, and tied the game. Both teams, good chances late, but this one went to overtime. And I got to say, after some of the three-on-three overtimes the Canucks have played this year, this one was surprisingly entertaining. This one had a throwback overtime feel to it with the team's trading chances uh both ways however Mikhail Sergachev as you heard beat Thatcher Demko on a two-on-one to win the game for Utah and this came after JT Miller maybe stayed out a little long on his shift threw a pass across the ice to Connor

Garland it bounced off the end or theboards, sprung Utah going the other way, and then Miller did not have the legs to get back and break up the play. And that's how it ended, 3-2 for Utah. For a game that started as poorly as it did, and let's be honest, it was not an oil painting in the first period. They went to the intermission, and there were Freed and David Amber sitting there making jokes about what a snoozer it was. The game ended in very exciting fashion yeah and there were a lot of interesting takeaways from that game so who better to speak about this than the head coach Rick Talkett now

here's a clever thing that we get to do play the entirety of his presser following the game because it was a grand total of one minute and 25 seconds in length. Not a lot of touring media on this mini trip. Not a ton of questions. And even if there were a ton of questions, it didn't sound as though Rick Tockett was interested in being very verbose in answering them. So without further ado, here's everything the head coach, Rick Tockett, had to say following a overtime loss to Utah last night.

Coach, how would you assess that game up 2-0, that third? Yeah, I didn't like our first. I thought we responded well in the second. We had a 2-0 lead, and you've got to lock it down. I know you don't like to comment on officials usually, but the call on Myers? Yeah, I mean, Kyle's a good ref. He saw something different.

You know, it happens. It happens. How do you think your team turned it around in the second? Well, we started to skate, went in some more battles. They were ready to play. We weren't. And then we obviously grabbed a two-doubt to lead. Mistake on the first goal.

We back in. And then fluky power play goes against him back in the game. You said you like Dakota when he's moving his feet. Do you find that he's getting his game training back? I thought today was a step in the right direction for Dakota. I thought he really moved his feet. So hopefully he can build off that, yeah. You made the change to power play one, Patterson out, Miller in.

Just for a different look? Yeah, we're just trying different things right now. So what was your assessment of the power play? Dan gets the power play goal to get you guys off. Just your thoughts on the overall units tonight. I thought we had some chances. You know, I thought we had a shot at the puck. Huggy had a couple shots.

Wasn't too bad. I mean, obviously, Hino gave that goal for us. It really helps us. Is there anything you can take away from tonight to get you ready for Vegas tomorrow? Well, I mean, just got to lock these games down. It's 2-0. You got to, you know, you got to stay with it. So, yeah, I mean, every got to lock these games down. It's 2-0. You got to stay with it.

So, yeah, I mean, every game's a learning lesson. And there you have it. Nobody asked him if he was Team Petey or Team Miller? Well, so... Why did nobody ask him the big question? I'm glad we waited until 6-11. We were 11 minutes into the show before we decided to address the elephant in the room. I wanted to know what he thought.

Murph did ask Rick Tockett about the changes to Power Play 1 and Power Play 2. Yeah, but specifically, which team is he on? Well, the specific changes that Andy is talking about, in case you and ListenerLand have no idea what we're talking about, is that Miller and Pedersen have been split up to their own respective Power Play units. And when asked about it, Rick talkett i think had five words if i'm not mistaken i i missed the count because everything was going pretty quickly but we're trying new things out there we're just trying different things right now we're just trying

different things right now so you can do the count on how many words that is i can't seven thank you he that was it dog was literally counting on his fingers. God, you're adorable. So that was it for what the coach had to say. He was asked after the Colorado game as well and had an equally, I don't want to call it terse, but it was a truncated, abbreviated response to the question. And a lot of people want to know, plain and simple, what the hell's going on here? What's up? What's happening here? Jamie, do you have any thoughts on that? to the question. And a lot of people want to know plain and simple. What the hell's going on?

What's up? What's happening here, Jamie? Do you have any thoughts? It's especially, it's not just that they've been split up, but it's that they flip flop between power play one and power play two. Like it would be one thing if it's like, okay,

our power play, we want to get it going. Guys are being too individual. So we're, we're mixing up the units. We're throwing them in a blender and Hey, Quinn Hughes and Elias Patterson. You're on one JT Miller and Brock Besser you're on the other and then we'll mix and match guys around that but it's not that in Colorado it was JT Miller got

demoted and it was very clear it was okay the power play one unit is out there without you JT you're coming on with power play two correct then last night it was the opposite patterson on to power play two jt miller up to power play one so it gives the impression and rick talk it did not elaborate otherwise that one either he's taking turns kind of punishing or sending a message to both of those guys or two maybe there's a reason that they can't be on the same power play unit together because typically you want your two best forwards your two most talented forwards who have both recently scored a hundred points in a season in the nhl usually you're throwing those guys on your top power play unit together yeah i look, there's two ways of looking at this. You can do it on like the salsa scale.

The mild salsa is, this is purely tactical. Yeah. This is just about trying to generate more chances from both units and give the power play an entirely different look. That's boring. And some would argue that mild salsa is delicious. That analysis is delicious because both units, I think, have actually looked better.

Well, the second unit scored last night. Right. Dan Heinen. Shout out to Dan Heinen. Whose nickname is Heino. Heino, yeah. I thought he said Dan Heino. I was like, he doesn't play for you.

That's a different guy. But it was Heino. Anyway, the more scotch bonnet, muy caliente assessment analysis of what's going on here is that these two guys can't be anywhere together, especially on the man advantage that the rift, the divide, the angst, the animosity is to the point where the coach is like, you go on power play one tonight, you go on power play two. And then tonight in Vegas, we'll just, we'll'll see we'll see are they out there together now the interesting wrinkle to this is late in the second i think

it was after a canucks that the canucks had killed the penalty talk it through the lotto lineup for a shift yeah miller better so it's like talk it i gotta say is doing a great job of of leaning into the bit and you know creating creating the speculation and what's going on with these guys, then giving us a little breadcrumb. It's like, oh, maybe they can play together. No, no, that's just one shift. But I don't like I mean, even the station Twitter account last night during the game was like, are you team Miller power player team PD power play? Yeah. And it got a ton of votes, got a ton of interaction, because, of course, how can you look at this situation and not think something kind of funny is going on here?

Yeah, it can be a clever, like, wink and a nudge and, you know, hey, check out what I'm doing here. And it could also be completely unrelated. The point being is that that dynamic is hanging over the team. Yeah. And the longer that the season goes on and the longer that little things like this happen, we'll all pick up on it and we'll all have a good time with it. Because at the end of the day, we don't have a lot to work off in terms of either someone addressing it,

which I don't think is ever going to happen, or there being a declaration of, yeah, they don't work great together. We probably won't see the lotto line together, and you probably won't see them working on a power play unit together. That's fine. Hold on. The lotto line thing is fine. Them not being able to be on a power play unit together, that's not fine. See, I need to have your top two guys be able,

even if you decide, okay, we want to have balanced power play units which i i disagree with i'm load up power play one but even if you decide that there has there's going to be moments where hey a guy's out with injury or it's the third period and we really need a goal we're gonna load up you have to be able to put them out there on the power in light of what you just said this is why i think that it's's it can't be the case it just can't be like come on you can't loathe someone to the point where you can't play on the power play together

you can't be out on a 200 foot sheet of ice for 45 seconds together come on like really you're right like if that was true that's wild plus they can't even speak to each other they got to go through Besser. It's like back and forth.

Just tell Petey that I'll go over there. Miller says he'll go over there. I have been in work scenarios where I've watched two individuals work side by side who absolutely loathed each other. No, it's not Brough and I. Absolutely. Laddy and A-Dog. Yeah.

They're very professional about it. You would never know. We hate each other's guts. Could not stand the sight of one another, and they worked together for years. Yeah. Years. So you and these were not multi-million dollar a year athletes

that we're talking about. I understand that there might be a rift, but I honestly, if you take a step back and you don't get involved in the minutiae and the lunacy of all of this it does seem crazy crazy that that would actually be the case it's also really remarkable where the conversation around this has gotten to with fans and i think i had a a rant last year on canucks talk where i basically said, can we stop treating them as if they only exist in relation to each other?

You know what I mean? That's good. Because every time you either praise or criticize one of them, the texts come in, right? Well, like if you're saying, well, Miller didn't back check well enough. I was like, well, what about Petey? And it's like, well, but that has nothing to do with Miller back checking or not. Or the vice versa with Petey. I've never seen the closest I can think of is luongo schneider but

that's different that's a goalie controversy right like that's standard that's oh well well this guy would have would he have saved that shot if he was in right that's very standard i can't recall for the canucks having two skaters viewed purely in relation like like, you know what I mean, in juxtaposition to each other and dividing the fan base like Miller and Petey are doing right now, where it's literally like, are you Team Miller or Team Petey? And they can only be discussed

in relation to each other. Has there ever been a situation like this? Well, Petey has zero points since Miller's returned. Yes, we are all aware. We are all very, very aware aware i think also adding to the complexity of what you just laid out is the fact that last year and i've said this about 9 000 times now i feel like a broken record the vibes were great yeah everything was good they were winning games they were playing good hockey

everyone was healthy no one took extended leave of absences to deal with personal reasons everything was good to come off the heels of that to whatever this is right now is it makes everything a lot more complex and a lot more confusing yeah because you want everyone wants and you know brough does this like he wants to he wants to find that one flashpoint or that one moment or that one thing that changed everything. And unfortunately, interpersonal relationships aren't always that black and white. There's a lot of great things build up over time. Angst, animosity, whatever, all those adjectives I threw out earlier.

But for this, it just seems really weird. I have constantly this season done the juxtaposition thing where I'm like, look at this season compared to last season where the core players are still almost uniformly the same, and outside of not necessarily having the goaltender, but still with Lankan having the goaltending, there's a lot of similarities, but it just feels and

looks and smells a lot different. And that whole Petey Miller dynamic is chief of the differences, right? It's right atop that list of what are the biggest differences from last year to this year. And it is easy to get distracted by, obviously, I mean, look, everyone is, at a certain point,

interested and curious about drama, right? And especially when you don't have all the details. And I understand being very, very curious about that. As you said, like looking for the flashpoint, what happened? What is the actual issue here?

How serious is it? Right. Does it legitimately stop them from playing on the same power play unit together? This texture makes a really good point though. Everyone spends more time talking about two star players, not getting along instead of realizing they both need to be better. And that's really it, right?

Because last year, I don't think their relationship magically deteriorated over the summer and coming into this season, and all of a sudden it was untenable, right? I'm guessing it's probably pretty similar to what it was last season, but the big difference was everyone was producing, right? This point last year, I mean, they were among the league leaders in points in the NHL. Right now, if you just look at even strength, five-on-five goal scoring,

Elias Pettersson has three goals in 31 games, five-on-five, right? That's behind Kiefer Sherwood, Pugh Suter, Jake DeBrus, Quinn Hughes, Brock Besser, Danton Heinen. Danton Heinen has four five-on-five goals. He has more five-on-five goals than Elias Pettersson this year. Teddy Blue or Connor Garland, there were three. Eric Brandstrom has three five-on-five goals this year. JT Miller, now he's missed 10 games, one five-on-five goal this year.

Nils Hoaglander, who hasn't scored since like October, has two five-on-five goals this year. And that's ultimately what it comes down to is maybe it's not the reason that these guys aren't producing whatever friction there is, whatever rift there is. But it's getting harder and harder to escape that it's got something to do with it. And, again, this is something that I've said on Canucks Talk,

but like when my kids are fighting over a toy and I don't want to get involved, the phrase I use is figure it out. Right. And it's like figure it out. We're at figure it out stage because whatever is going on,

they're not going to win consistently with these guys playing and producing the way that they are. Yeah. And, you know, someone texted in. I'll pull up the text now. Oh, it's from Jason in North Van. He writes,

I don't want to be that guy, but a lot of this is media driven, and never have we seen evidence of them not liking each other. I would push back against the evidence of them not liking each other. I think there's been a few incidents and singular moments, the shoving match that they had in practice earlier this season, things that we've heard anecdotally from former coaches that I think that you can at least surmise that they're not the best of friends.

I think they've gone on the record saying... Yeah, and I think even they have gone... This is not a media thing. This has been stated on the record. They've gone on the record saying, like, you know, we need to work on our relationship. So that's the evidence. Now, if you want to...

And then I know the immediate pushback is like, well, there's lots of teams where guys don't get along yeah but if you're asking for evidence you're asking for evidence you're not asking me to classify what kind of evidence it is it's there jamie brings up the the salient point here is that when those two guys aren't producing and aren't playing at a level that we're accustomed to, it's a natural thing, media, fan, or otherwise, coach, to try and figure out why. And this big elephant in the room is often atop the list of this is potentially why things aren't going great.

It's a natural human reaction. Something ain't going right. The marriage is struggling. Well, you look at the two people involved in it, right? That's kind of how it works. And with the scoring, and especially these last few games, you look at

who's leading the charge and who's not. Whereas the last six goals that have been scored by this team. Yeah. Well, even the last four games, they have now Besser and DeBrusque scored against Florida, which is great. But other than that,

it's Joshua Heinen, Sherwood with three and Sasson. So the last six goals, they've scored. It's like Sasson, Heinen, Sherwood, Joshua, Soucy. Right. And then you talked about the five on five goals. You talked about what they're doing on the power play units. It is glaring. Glaring is a way to put it.

Okay, we're going to take a quick break here. On the other side, we can get into everything else that happened last night. There were a lot of other talking points. Thatcher Demko, great first period, great start to the game. Probably wants the Sergeyev goal back, although we're not going to hang that one on. We can ask Laddy for some analysis on that one. We'll take a look at some other individual players as well, and then we also have to pivot to tonight's game.

A huge test, a very difficult place against a very difficult team, the Vegas Golden Knights at T-Mobile Arena. The Canucks are going to go back-to-back. I assume it's going to be Kevin Lankan and Annette tonight for that one. So we've got a lot more to discuss the entire first hour of this program. All Canucks, you're listening to the Halford and Brough show featuring Jamie Dodd on Sportsnet 650. Canucks talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance.

We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. 6.32 on a Thursday. You guys weren't joking. You're doing this. Crispish Thrash Thursday, man. All right. It's awesome. I do not love this.

I'm willing to give it a try. And this is all unlicensed music, you say? No one's jumped on licensing this? Unbelievably so, it is. You're listening to the Halford & Brough

show on Sportsnet 650. Featuring Jamie Dodd, Halford & Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for

Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. Speaking of metal, hour one of this program is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling.

Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. Vancouver Canucks 3-2 overtime. Losers in Utah yesterday. This despite holding a two-goal lead going in to the third period. If you were thinking to yourself, that's very un-Canuck blowing a multi-goal lead in the third period.

You're right. The only other time it's happened this year. Got to go all the way back to the season opening 6-5. OT lost to the Calgary Flames. Remember that? Remember the first period of that game when they were up 4-1? A bad omen. The vibes were so high. Everything was great.

Daniel Sprong scored. Remember him? Yeah. Sprong. First goal of the season. JT Miller had that huge hit on, I forget the player in the moment. It wasn't Kirkland, was it? No. Rooney. Rooney, yes. Daniel Sprong. wow that I can't believe

you have that of all things at the ready just been waiting for weeks for somebody to mention Sprung again doesn't get much use these days I thought I busted out why are we the best in the business um so a couple questions coming from last night's game. And I noticed a handful of people talking about Utah's collective team speed, which begs the question, Jamie, are the Canucks fast enough? Yeah, it was really noticeable, I thought, especially in the first period. Right. And with players like Logan Cooley, I mean, seemed to constantly either be on a breakaway or threatening to be on a breakaway against the Canucks. Clayton Keller was able to burn them as

well and it's an interesting question because I say about the question I put into the notes because really patting myself on the back this was something that they tried to address in the offseason right they talked about it you know we weren't fast enough in the playoffs right so they went out and they got Kiefer Sherwood they got jake debrusk and we always focus on you know do they have enough puck moving right and then the perennial question in vancouver are they tough enough are they big enough but it feels like the speed question has kind of fallen off the radar a little bit maybe it'll be back on as a result of last night i think it's tough you run into this in so many different ways right when you're trying to add something to your team whether it's leadership or speed or toughness and you bring in complementary

players now jake debrusk you know top six guy but still not a core piece a complementary player keifer sherwood obviously he's having a great season but he's a complementary player it's really hard to change the identity of your team without changing core players right and the thing is with the Canucks team speed none of their top players are really burners right like Quinn Hughes is a great skater but he's a defenseman he's not going to be beating guys with his speed off the rush and anyways his skating is more about you know his agility and his edge work and all that you know JT Miller, Elias Pettersson, Brock Besser, not really speed guys. They're still really good players, but it's hard to make the team faster,

noticeably faster, and play faster by fiddling around the edges. It was the similar situation that annually the Toronto Maple Leafs found themselves in, where it was like, well, we want to get tougher as a team. Let's add Ryan Reeves. Let's add Tyler Bertuzzi at the deadline. We'll get tougher and meaner and greasier. But you're right. All that, it's almost like a sort of add-on as opposed to really reinventing

the identity of your core guys. You can't just get faster in the NHL. I think part of it is if that's, as you mentioned, your identity, that's forged around the guys that are on the ice the most. And for the Canucks, and we saw it last night, I think probably more glaring than they will in certain other games. I think Utah is one of the faster teams based on the young guys that their team is built around.

Because, yeah, because you look at it, and Brough and I have talked about this a lot, everyone wants to get faster. I think everyone understands that the way the league is trending is being able to get up and down the ice and being able to just beat people with raw speed is something that the opponents can't deal with. Oftentimes it results in, I got to haul this guy down

and I got to take a penalty. If those guys are complimentary guys, it's less and less about your identity. You have these nice flash points or moments where you kind of look fast, but over the course of 60 minutes, you're always the second fastest. I also think it's a cliche, but the difference between being fast and playing fast, and I think this is ultimately what it comes down to, is the Canucks aren't going to look faster because they sign fast bottom six guys they're going to look faster if they can move the puck more successfully right like that's a huge part of it Miller he's not a burner but if he gets a pass in stride in

the neutral zone like he can make that work right he's got a powerful stride he's got power he can do something in transition because against Utah it stood out not just that they were way faster but they were moving the puck so much more crisply than the Canucks especially early in the game and just the number of like creative east-west passes off the rush or like you know five or six pass sequences breaking out of their zone and getting active on the rush it just looked completely different than anything we see from the Canucks on a game-to-game basis, and that allows them to look fast. Like, yes, Logan Cooley is a really fast skater as well, but he's also playing in a system that lets him look fast.

So for me, I don't know if it's like all of a sudden the Canucks have to go and prioritize adding speed at the deadline, I think we'd be having a very different conversation if they could just get out of their own end cleanly on a more regular basis and let the forwards build up some speed. Speaking of slow starts, not starting on time, and team identity, let's discuss Thatcher Demko

and what he did last night because that game is probably not bagels going into the first intermission, if not Thatcher Demko. It's funny. I saw it suggested on a couple different platforms yesterday that this team's identity, good, bad, or otherwise, might be we don't start on time. But our goaltending keeps us in games. And then when we find our legs, we're a good team.

And that's what that goaltending is all about, is to make sure that we don't get caved in. Just how they drew it up right day one at training camp talk is like listen guys here's how we're gonna play the architect of every good hockey team is like can we get someone that doesn't start on time but we got a really good goalie to compensate for that uh honestly i i'm not even joking if you were to ask me what's the identity of this team i would put that in the conversation is there's some very slow, but they are bailed out by some very good goaltending. And the flip side of that is that when Silovs was in

for a few of these sleepy starts, the game got away from the Canucks in a hurry. So there is some credence to the notion that Lankanen and Demko, you guys better be ready to start because the guys in front of you aren't going to be. And last night was another example of that. If you're trying to look for positives, you don't necessarily need to go out and try and look for them. They can't be staring you right in the face.

One of them right now is the goaltending situation. Tuckett has to be really, really happy with what he's got. Because that's two games in a row now that Demko's looked very sharp and made a lot of sort of like high-end, grade-A scoring chance saves. We can talk about the goal. And you know what? I'm going to throw the microphone over to Laddie now. Since we're talking about Demko, let's get the full picture.

What exactly happened on the overtime winner, which Sergeyev's chance seemed to go basically right through him? Yeah, he just whiffed. That's what you call it in the business it's the technical term no he he slid across it was uh an interesting choice to go paddle down he he clearly thought that Sergeyev wasn't going to be able to raise that puck because you don't go you don't go paddle down unless you're sure it's going to be along the ice and it still went underneath and through him so it's just one of those cases where you make a move it was a quick

developing play on the on the two-on-one slash breakaway or whatever it was, and he just missed it. It just went right through him, and those are really frustrating ones because you feel like you're right there. You're in front of the puck, and then all of a sudden it's in the net. You've done the process.

Yeah, you did all the hard work, but you missed the puck, so I think it was just a frustrating one for Demko. Not something you can look deeper into. It was just an unfortunate finish to that one for him. Yeah he looked great and as you said yeah yeah sorry not to interrupt but for those in listener land that tend to hear things they want to hear we are in no way shape or form blaming that on that and I even said he was there he he sort of made the save it just went it went through him sometimes it happens it happens but and again it wasn't just that he

you know I don't know what his save percentage ended after letting in the goal in overtime or whatever, but you look at the nature of saves he was being asked to make, right? And it was a lot of odd man rushes. It was a lot of breakaways again. Like he had to be athletic. He had to be really sharp. I didn't have to laugh. It happened off camera, but the save and then shorty was like,

ah, he's clutching his hip. And then like 10 seconds later, he was like, I don't want to panic anyone. I think he's all right. Well, I did it the previous game against Colorado when he fell down and then got up and made us, he fell down, made a save whilst fallen. And then very slowly, I'm talking about Demko, not Shorty, got up back onto his feet and I'm looking at it. I'm like, this is it.

This is where he gets over. And I know that with every passing game, that fear will dissipate a little bit more and a little bit more, but I am still very much on high alert that the Popliteus is going to go at any minute. Every time Demko makes a save, this is Halford. This is my nightmare! Quite honestly, it is,

because also he's had a lot of different injuries. I know the Popliteus is the most recent one, but he's a guy that is a little bit older now, has pushed himself incredibly hard to get to the level that he's at. And I don't know what his non-game day off season, like, or sorry, off day practice and training regimen looks like right now.

I hope that this new age approach that they're taking, which is let's not try and drive him into the ground with endless practice works, but it's also probably what made him so sharp in the past. I also think looking back, right, because Demko had that quote that he wanted to put his knee through hell before he got back in,

and I think everyone understood that. No one was critical, but I think there was more wisdom to that than we even understood because Thatcher Demko, last season notwithstanding he understands better than anyone the positions that this team can put its goaltender and sometimes that's a good point you know what i mean i think he was probably like i've played behind this team i better be ready to be really sharp and really athletic and be making some desperation saves it's great that

last season you know we cut off we took away half of the ice and I could see everything and I was in position. But just in case that's not the case again, I better be really good to go. And he's like, that's the thing. It's not just it's like, oh, hey, 28 saves on 30 shots, but they were all, you know, dead on. And he had time to get set. He's going cross crease. He's making desperation saves. He's, you know, improvising and finding interesting ways to make saves.

So it's been everything really i think you could have hoped for for thatcher demko having said that okay three starts in a row because kevin lankanen had the flu here now obviously lankanen will go tonight in the back to back just because demko has held up and looked good and trending in a really positive direction it's not time to throw out the we got to be really careful of his recovery plan. Right. You know what I mean? Like, you still have to be really, really smart

about we're giving Lankanen, you know, at least 40% of the remaining starts this year or something. It's great that Thatcher Demko looks good. You don't want to risk it any more than you absolutely need to, though. Well, it brings up a good question what they're going to do Saturday when they return home and they take on Ottawa.

Right? I mean, do you go Lankanen tonight against Vegas and then right back against Ottawa? Then you've got one game against San Jose on Monday the 23rd

and then you've got your Christmas break. So it'll be very interesting to see what they do here because you're right. I don't think anyone envisioned that Demko would be making They'd have to play

three in a row. Four or five. Yeah. Right? So there's something interesting there. What did we think about the penalty on tyler myers the cross check on clayton keller that led to dylan gunther's game tying goal on the power play late in the third period soft call but i thought a lot of the calls were soft last night to be honest in both

directions yeah that's fair they weren't exactly letting them play so i don't know i mean you heard talk it right murph asked him and he was like that guy's a great ref god i love big fan directions. Yeah, that's fair. They weren't exactly letting them play. So I don't know. I mean, you heard Talkett, right? Murph asked him and he was like, that guy's a great ref. Big fan of his work. I love Rick Talkett's dealing with the

referees. It's a hard job. Yeah, they got the hardest job in the world out there. Our referees do a great job. The only thing he

didn't throw in there was I got to go look at it on video afterwards. I didn't see it. I got to look at it. I like how he threw a learning lesson at

the end, though. Yeah, it was very end. Every game is a learning lesson. You think a T-shirt's printed up that's going to replace embrace the hard. Every game to look at it. I like how you threw a learning lesson at the end, though. Yeah, it was. The very end. Every game is a learning lesson. T-shirts printed up. That's going to replace embrace the hard. Every game is a learning lesson. That's right.

I will say this. I don't know if we're seeing a trend, but that's two games in a row where that particular cross check, like a relatively soft tap in the back in what I would consider kind of a battle situation. Yes. Got called and the Miller one on McKinnon from Monday night and then Myers on in what I would consider kind of a battle situation, got called.

And the Miller one on McKinnon from Monday night and then Myers on Keller. If you want to look at who the penalties are being taken on, it is on quote-unquote star players, right? I know that Keller isn't in the McKinnon stratosphere, but they're both high-end skill guys. I don't want to read too much into it, but it certainly seems as though those calls getting made in back-to-back games. Well, apparently Jack Eichel can cross-check with impunity too.

Explain. That clip going, making the rounds against Edmonton. I forget who he laid out on the boards, but it was an absolute, it was a textbook boarding. Was it Ekholm, I think? Yeah. It might have been Ekholm, yeah. And he just cleared, and he looked at the ref and was like,

oh my God, and there was no penalty. Right. It was just hilarious. So that clip's been making the rounds every time one of these ticky-tack cross-checks gets called. Cross-checking has always been, I think, the most inconsistently called penalty as well. There's a lot of cross-checks that happen, but we kind of understand, well, they're just battling. You know what I mean? And it's like there's this kind of gray line where, okay, if it's a little more forceful, then we have to call it.

And it seems like maybe they're trying to change where that line is and whenever that's happening if you're trying to change the interpretation or the the enforcement standard of a rule there's going to be weird frustrating calls like this one and yeah it's tough right because then it's not as even if the penalty kill was awful right it goes off bluger and kind of flutters past Thatcher Demko, Gunther's shot. I don't know. Of all the calls that you see in an NHL season, though, yeah, you don't love that one, but it's not,

I don't think it's something to get up and around. I think with cross-checking, though, just from playing, it might be one of those penalties where there's a lot of communication with the officials, and they'll be battling, and then you'll hear the ref say, stick off his back one more time, and you're getting a call, and then he does it again. It might not be the most vicious cross-check, but the official said, one more cross-check to the back,

you're going to the box. He said it. So you have to do it. I think it might be one of those scenarios as well. On the subject of Jack Eichel, the Vancouver Canucks are going to face him in the Vegas Golden Knights tonight. A reminder, puck drop is 7 o'clock tonight. It's a busy night in the National Hockey League.

I believe it's one of nine games on the slate uh there's a lot to be said about vegas and most of it is that they're real good my pre-season prediction of them missing the playoffs does not look like it's off to the hottest start they are currently 28 and three that's good for first in the pacific division as i mentioned earlier they've won five of their last six. They've won nine of their last twelve. That includes a 3-2 win in Minnesota on Sunday. A result that was made even more impressive

by the fact that the day prior, they were playing in Edmonton where they lost. They turned around quick, went down to Minnesota. Got a win, 3-2 against a pretty good Minnesota team. Eichel, and I know Laddie loves this more than anybody, he's having an unreal season. He has 42 points in 31 games.

He's tied for second in the league. Staying out of the box. Staying out of the penalty box. Keeping his PIMS clean. He is just leading the charge for a team that looks like they're firing on all cylinders now that Mark Stone is back. And we probably haven't paid enough attention, and I know we haven't paid enough attention, to the season that Ivan Barbashev is having. I had to double check this one yesterday.

A guy that's never scored more than 26 goals in a single NHL campaign has 15 through 31 games this year and is on pace. Obviously, if you want to do the math, for 40. He's been banged up recently. He got hurt in that Minnesota game. So the Canucks might actually catch a break tonight and not see Barbashev, who's the team's leading goal scorer. He got hurt in the Minnesota game. He got tangled up with Foligno.

He's got an upper body injury, and his status is unclear for the remainder of the week. I mentioned Mark Stone. He missed the second half of basically all of November with another injury. He's been very hard luck when it comes to health over the last little bit, but he's been unreal when he's been in the lineup too.

He's got 24 points in 17 games. He's always outrageous when he's in the lineup. If you want an indicator of how good this team is, go look at the teams that are most well-represented at the upcoming Four Nations face-off, and it's all the good teams in the NHL, including Vegas, who is going to have seven guys, including the goalie, Aiden Hill.

Now, the numbers on Hill aren't great. As a matter of fact, the goaltending numbers for Vegas this year aren't ideal. Both him and Samsonoff are sub-900. I guess it'll be Hill tonight because they haven't played since Sunday, so they've had plenty of time off. But that is Aiden Hill, Team Canada goalie that the Canucks will presumably be facing tonight in Vegas. Yeah, and a very different stylistic challenge, too, compared to Utah.

We talked about the speed of Utah and all the young players and the attacking off the rush and Vegas as we know you know they are a very heavy team they like to get set up in the offensive zone and kind of wear you down like that and really I mean Vegas's team has changed a lot over the years but you the strength down the middle it's Eichel William Carlson still and Tomas Hurdle down the middle, it's Eichel, William Carlson still, and Tomasz Hertel down the middle. And it's a bit of a work in progress on the wings, right? Barbashev has been huge for them for that reason, to give them that kind of top flight winger. But just, man, if you have that kind of talent down the middle,

you're going to be able to be in and win a lot of games. So I'm curious to see how the Canucks handle Vegas for the first time. There's been some good performances against Vegas, but There's been some there's been some good performances against Vegas, but I also feel like there's been some horror shows against the Golden Knights. Look, if you want,

I'm trying to be as objective as possible, right? I don't like being a doomsday guy. However, however, if you look at this on the second of a back-to-back going into a place where in 14 games this year,

Vegas has won 11 times. Yeah, they're very well rested having not played since Sunday. going into a place where in 14 games this year, Vegas has won 11 times. They're very well rested, having not played since Sunday. It's going to be a tough test for the Canucks. This is one of, if not the toughest tests that the Canucks have had through the 30-plus games that they've played this season. And we've talked a lot this week in the market about slow starts.

I feel like Vegas could absolutely run over them. If there's a sleepy start in this one tonight, Vegas has the horses. And I think the mentality, that kind of killer instinct to punish them and not allow them to kind of hang around like Utah did and pick up a point last night. Yeah. That's going to be a thing,

right? Like Lankan is going to probably be busy early and there's probably going to be a lot of pucks fired his way. I mean, Vegas is Vegas is one of those teams when you're doing your sort of, you know, the Canucks are in a playoff position right now. They've got the first wild card.

Has the season been great up to this point? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that would say yes. It's been average to good, but they're in a playoff spot. And you're kind of always doing everything with an eye to the postseason, right? Like all the analysis that we do, it's always about, yeah, the regular season. But you could probably muddy and forge your way through it and get to the postseason. When you look at the postseason right now, given, and we're always talking about last season,

Vegas was very underwhelming and kind of an afterthought when we got to the postseason last year. It never felt like they had it put together and it never felt like they were going to be a legit contender, even though everyone thought they're going to get all these guys back in the postseason, and they're going to take off. Well, it didn't happen. Fast forward to this year, Vegas has firmly reestablished itself as one of those teams in the West that's elite and is gunning to replace the Edmonton Oilers as the Western Conference champions to be in the Stanley Cup Finals.

So the road never gets easier when you get to the playoffs. I mean, I know that Nashville has dropped out and Minnesota has jumped in in a big way. I'm not sure I'm ready to call them a cup contender. Yeah, I think that's fair. In the same vein as Edmonton, and I'd definitely put Vegas in there. I think I'd put Dallas in there. You know, the Winnipeg Jets,

you can't ignore what they've done. It's been such a dominant start to the season. So the elites in the West, it's almost like there's a, it's not a recycling program, but there's always someone to take your place when someone drops out, right? And this is a big test for the Canucks tonight.

Measuring stick game, really, to see where they're at. It is, and to the point about, one, to bring it full circle, back to Miller and Pedersen, of course. Who else who else you know I mentioned the strength down the middle for Vegas well that's a big big task for those two guys at the top of the lineup to win their matchups but uh Texter JD and Coquitlam makes a really good point as well Canucks been playing up to their high-end competition recently they're also very inconsistent though so who knows which Canucks team shows up tonight, but it's a good point, right? Losses recently to St. Louis, Boston, Utah, kind of

mid-tier teams, playoff contenders, but not cup contenders. Florida and Colorado, two of the best games of the season for the Canucks this year, so maybe that version shows up tonight against Vegas. Yeah, and by the way, that Florida victory sure looks pretty nice right now in light of the fact that Florida has gone into Edmonton and beat the Oilers 6-5 and then last night went into Minnesota and whipped the Wild 6-1. So there's lots to be said about that Florida victory that the

Canucks had last week. Okay, we're up against it for time. We're going to duck out. We're going to take care of some business, pay some bills. When we come back, we are going to dive into the world of the National Football League. Nick Shook from NFL.com, one of our favorite guests here on the program. We will look ahead to Thursday Night Football, a classic AFC West battle between the Broncos and the Chargers. Then we'll look ahead to the weekend, a couple big Saturday games. You've got the Houston Texans going up against the Kansas City Chiefs.

You've also got Baltimore and Pittsburgh in a classic divisional rivalry as well. So we'll talk to Nick Shook about all that coming up next. For you hockey fans out there, fear not. There's lots more Canucks talk to come. Jesse Granger is going to join us at 7.30 from the Athletic Las Vegas Golden Knights. Beat Writer will join us to preview things

from the Vegas Golden Knights side of things. And then at 8 o'clock, Thomas Trance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks Talk for more Canucks Talk. You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.