Halford & Brough in the Morning - The BC Lions Are In It To Win It

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

In hour one, guest hosts Jamie Dodd & Josh Elliott-Wolfe look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), they talk the return of BC Lions star QB Nathan Rourke (6:00), the guys chat about which pro league has the most annoying refs (27:00), plus the boys discuss the Canucks goaltending this season and if the team might try and limit Thatcher Demko's games played in order to keep him healthy for the playoffs (40:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da Nathan Rourke, I think he'll be playing Sunday. So we want to make sure that he's properly ready to go with the playbook and all those things. But if those boxes are checked, then he'll be the guy on Sunday. Swing and a drive. Get up, ball. Get out of here. And this one is gone. He is locked in in need. Number 24 for Vlade Guerrero Jr.

Ken Holland, the general manager at that time as far back as december and january were instructed at the top levels of the owners organizations to get dylan holloway and philip roberg signed to contract extensions Good morning! Welcome to Halford and Brough beer, Sportsnet 650 still. Jamie Dodd and Josh Elliott will fill in for Halford and Brough. Good morning, Josh. What's going on? Good morning. Happy to be here. Are you? Yeah, sure.

All right, well. Why not? That makes one of us. All right. That's good. At least we have morning. Happy to be here. Are you? Yeah, sure. All right. Well, why not? That makes one of us. All right. That's good. At least we have one person excited to be here. Adog, good morning. Good morning.

Basketball Ben, good morning. I'm also excited to be here. All right. Second last day. We're 50%. Yeah, he's just excited because he's running up the clock. Yeah. Yeah.

So you can see the finish line. The end of the basketball game, I'm just dribbling the ball that's right has it been as difficult to wake up this week as it usually is for morning shows or is there kind of like an excitement there's like uh oh i'm excited to go to the office this is kind of crazy i feel like it's like last week of school you know and it's like i'm just going to watch a movie this is a great comparison you got like a kick in your step yeah do the move when you get out of bed i would i would resent having to get up early on my last week i would be mad at camberra i would feel like he's punishing me it's like oh you're leaving take a morning show shift on your way out you actually need to hear an hour earlier yeah exactly yeah you're gonna do the morning

shift and actually we're doing a new late night show you're gonna be doing that too so have fun all night figure Figure it out. Halford & Brough brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. Coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Soar feet.

What are you waiting for? Kintec, that is what you're waiting for. Sounds like he was about to start rapping. Had a bit of a rhythm there to it. Alfred used to do that when he first started doing this. All his reads sounded like hip-hop. Like rap? Sounded like he was about to start freestyling. It's got a beat underneath.

Yeah, it was very, very funny. Have you ever rapped before, Josh? In the car. In the car, yeah. But not like your own lyrics. No, no, no. No, no, no. I've never put pen to paper.

I've been like, you know what? It's time to jot down some bars. You haven't yet. Yet. One day. It's the whitest you've ever sounded. Jot down some bars. Jot down some bars.

I've got these dots and I got to get them out. That's what the kids say, right? Yeah. Classic. Alright big show coming up today there's actually lots that happen in the world of sports especially as it pertains to fans here in Vancouver yesterday so of course

part of that was the double offer sheet from the St. Louis Blues targeting the Edmonton Oilers and two offer sheets equals two guests that's how we're doing it here. We're going to cover it from both sides. First at 7, Lou Korak covers the Blues for NHL.com. He'll join us to weigh in on the St. Louis perspective, what they're hoping to accomplish, what they see in the players.

And as we talked about a little bit yesterday, I mean, it's just still a team in a very strange position. So we'll talk about where the St. Louis blues are going with Lou at seven at seven 30. We'll cover the other major, major story from yesterday, which is of course the return of Nathan Rourke to the BC lines. Neil McEvoy co-general manager for the BC lines will join us. You heard a little clip there.

We'll play more in a few minutes in what happened from Rick Campbell, but this is just such a fascinating story. Tons of different layers here. Excited to chat with Neil about that at 730 at 8 o'clock. As I mentioned, covering the offer sheet story from the other side, Jack Michaels, Oilers play-by-play voice as the Oilers find themselves in a bit of a salary cap pickle with a couple of young players either due to get maybe uncomfortable raises or depart the organization.

So working in reverse, of course, you know I have to do it. 8 o'clock, Jack Michaels, Oilers play-by-play voice. 730, Neil McEvoy, BC Lions co-general manager. And at 7 o'clock, it is Luke Horak, who covers the Blues for NHL.com. That's the guest list. But before we get into that, let's do What Happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No.

What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance,

making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit bccsa.ca. And we'll start with the biggest local story, which, as I mentioned, of course, is that 2022 most outstanding player in Canadian, Nathan Rourke, which, as I mentioned, of course, is that 2022 most outstanding player in Canadian, Nathan Rourke, quarterback, coming back to the BC Lions after being cut by the Atlanta Falcons this week in the NFL. And we covered this a little bit on the show yesterday as it broke around 830.

More details then come out. You know, Rick Campbell has a chance to chat with the media. Nathan Rourke is going to talk to the media today, I believe, after practice. So we're starting to learn more about this. And it's a really fascinating situation that the Lions find themselves. I think one of the key details here are the contractual terms. So two years, the remainder of this season, then two years after it, he's going to make about $250,000 for the remainder of this year, then around $800,000 in 2025 and 2026.

Also allows him to pursue NFL opportunities in the off seasons. And you just hear those terms, and it really speaks to the overall top-down aggressiveness of this organization, which starts with Amar Doman. You know, $800 know 800 000 that's big big money for the cfl that like that's low-end nhl player money right like there was the league minimum in the nhl is 775 000 something like that so nathan work is poised to be making more money than guys some guys who play uh in the nhl you have to think that played a big, big part in his willingness to say, you know what, I'm going to at least not entirely put the NFL dreams,

uh, on hold, right? Because I still maybe have the chance to go pursue these things in the off season, but I'm at least willing to go back and play for the BC lions, compete in the CFL, uh,

while I, you know, try to figure that out because they're making it worth it. And again, I think it really just speaks to the willingness of Amar Doman to step up and give out that kind of contract and how seriously they're taking winning and especially winning this year. With the Grey Cup here, they're clearly willing to do whatever they can

to maximize their chances of being in that game. Yeah, that's what I was going to say is that part of this is like, hey, the Grey Cup is in BC this year. You want to maximize your chances this year, but also you look at it and so many things about Nathan Rourke just fit the Lions perfectly. Yep. Like, well, he fits any team perfectly, but he's from BC, Canadian obviously,

and just has the potential and has been the best quarterback in the CFL at times already. So if you can lock him up, and again, you can pursue NFL opportunities in the off seasons. I wonder if that's just a like, hey, we're putting this in here. Well, you almost have to put it in, right? Because you never know. It's the same for any player, really, in the CFL. If an NFL opportunity comes up, your team isn't going to block you from going down there um but in terms of the money around 800k i believe some of it uh around 200 000 of it is like marketing cap like it doesn't count

towards the the salary cap so that's a big part of it too and and um you look at it and nathan work is also a guy that can sell tickets. So when we talk about the aggressiveness and the willingness to get this done, it's an easy sell from both sides, I think. And for Rourke, it's going to be really interesting to see how he fits in, how soon he fits in, because we'll hear from Rick Campbell, but he seems to expect him to fit in very, very quickly and be on the field very, very quickly.

And to me, like, that's very surprising, but also it's Nathan Mork and he's really good, so he's probably going to figure it out. And a lot of the same pieces are still in place, too. Yeah, and that point about the marketing element, right? And look, I'm going to confess, I'm not a CFL salary cap expert, so I don't know all the ins and outs and all the wrinkles for cfl still on or i wish i don't know all the wrinkles of the cfl salary cap but if you're going to break the bank to pay anybody it's going to be especially

as the bc lines as you said with the local connection it's going to be nathan rourke i mean he hasn't played in the CFL since 2022. He's still the biggest name, the biggest CFL name, certainly in this market. People know Vernon Adams Jr. and they respect what he's doing, but the biggest CFL star is Nathan Rourke despite not having played

in two years at this point. I think that tells you the higher ceiling he has in general, but for the Lions specifically compared to any other player. I saw some people react online, right? Like, how's that going to affect their salary cap? Are they going to be able to put a good team around him?

I think, look, you pay the quarterback. You pay the star local BC quarterback who's elite in the league. You do whatever it takes to get him in the fold you figure the rest out right this is not the time to be like oh is that going to be an efficient contract like maybe we should just go to Ottawa on our defensive line no no no you get him in the fold then you figure everything

else out after that yeah that's the that's the thing it's like not to say he's like the Patrick Mahomes of the CFL but essentially like the Patrick Mahomes of the CFL but I'm going to say it he's the Patrick Mahomes of the CFL, but essentially like the Patrick Mahomes of the CFL. But I'm going to say it. He's the Patrick Mahomes of the CFL. You get the super elite quarterback that can be the best in the league,

and then you figure the rest out after because that's how teams assemble a football team. That's the best way to do it is to get the quarterback and figure everything else out. Ideally, you have other pieces in place, and the BC Lions do have other pieces in place. So that helps a lot. The bigger question for me,

and we'll talk to Neil McAvoy about this, at 7.30 is what's going to happen with Vernon Adams? Because it is weird to have two elite quarterbacks on the roster at the same time. To have the two best quarterbacks in the league? It's a bit of a strange situation. I don't know if you... I get it's cool, but I don't know if you need to do that we'll uh we'll definitely get

into that we'll hear from rick campbell on that as well but first uh we heard a quick clip from campbell in the intro but i do want to play this at a little more length you alluded to it the question of when can you expect to see nathan rourke and the lions host the blue bombers on sunday nathan rourke is going to arrive. He might have already arrived, but he's at least going. Well, yeah, he's going to practice with the team today, talk to the media. And according to Rick Hamble, if that seems like a really quick turnaround, well, that might not stop Nathan Rourke from playing on Sunday.

Yeah, well, he's traveling today. He should be on the practice field tomorrow is the plan. And knowing Nathan Rourke, I think he'll be playing Sunday. So we want to make sure that he's properly ready to go and with the playbook and all those things. But if those boxes are checked, then he'll be the guy in Sunday. What are your expectations and how much has the playbook changed? Do you think he'd be ready to go on Sunday? Like I said, knowing him, I would say that he will be ready to go. But like I said, this is a fast 24 hours for him too

as far as he's hopping on a plane and getting up here. And obviously helps that Jordan's still here, so the playbook's similar in concepts and all those things. But we want to just make sure we take it day by day and make sure that he's properly ready to go. So that's Lions head coach Rick Campbell, certainly far from closing the door on Nathan Rourke playing on Sunday. In fact, leaving it very, very open doesn't guarantee it, right?

Acknowledges that there's there's certain benchmarks he wants to see him meet. But I also don't think you give that commentary unless you've talked to Nathan Rourke and he's indicated that he wants to play on Sunday. Right. Like, I don't think you're setting him up like that unless you have a very, very good idea of that's where it's going. Now, as he says, same offensive coordinator in place is when Nathan Rourke was last year. Right. So as I'm sure they've added some new wrinkles over the last couple of years, but at least the base should be very, very familiar to Rourke. I also think this is, you know, Vernon Adams, I think the last update was he's listed as day-to-day. If he was 100% healthy and good to go, maybe it's a different conversation.

But with Jake Doligala, the backup, you know, he's been fine when he's played in the CFL. But I understand why you say, like, okay, even if it's not a perfect circumstance for Nathan Rourke, he's going to give us a better chance to win than Jake Dola Gala does. And the other thing with playing Rourke is, I mean, I think it makes Sunday the most anticipated Lions regular season game in, I don't know, an awful long time, right? The return of Nathan Rourke with such a quick turnaround at home against the Blue Bombers, that game becomes a massive, massive deal.

And I'm not going to lie, as a very casual CFL fan who generally in the summer watches more BC Lions games because I host and we have to talk about the BC Lions, this has been the game that I can't remember being this hyped for a BC Lions game. 100%. For a regular season game? Like, this is a big, big deal. And I think most casual fans, like my future mother-in-law, I guess, was at our house yesterday, and she's like, oh, is Nathan Rourke coming back?

I'm going to watch on Sunday. I was like, what's happening? The name recognition, the interest on Nathan Rourke, despite not having played in the league since 2022, is off the charts. I remember when he was tearing it, like, right when it all started with the Lions. Like, we had tons of sports stories to talk about, and he was, like, topping, like, Canucks stuff. Like, Rourke was, like, the big story around town, even over the Canucks.

That rarely happens in this market. Like, it was a huge deal. Everybody was on board with it. In my time in sports media, I'd never seen people this rallied for the team before. It was really cool. Yeah, and as JD and Coquitlam text in about him playing on Sunday, Rourke knowing half the playbook may be a better option than what else the Lions have. I think it's as simple as that.

I agree. Again, if it was Vernon Adams, maybe it's a different story. But over the backup, you probably just have to go with the more talented option. And again, just embrace the excitement that that's going to create. backup you probably just have to go with the more talented option and uh and again just like embrace the excitement that that's going to create because him just freestyling it's like he's still gonna be really good yep um on Vernon Adams right as you said that's the other big question here right and we'll certainly talk more about that with Neil McAvoy when he joins the show at 7 30 but again instant reaction I saw from fans yesterday was kind of okay can they trade

vernon adams like can they use this to shore up the rest of the roster early reports are that is not in the the not the plan at least for this season but here's more from rick campbell on what this means for vernon adams yeah so we're hoping he's back um i don't think he's going to make this game i'm not ruling that out, but he literally is this week to week where we think he's going to be back sooner than later. Part of me for this to happen with Nathan, the package for me was that Vernon stays, and there's multiple reasons for that. Number one, he's an excellent quarterback. Two, he's a huge, valuable leader on this team, and he's a big part of this team.

And so we wanted to make it work where they both can be here. So, you know, when I was talking to him this morning, actually, he was my first call. I actually talked to him before our coaches, if you can believe that, because I think very highly of him. And there's some mixed emotions in there, but no question that it's an exciting day for the BC Lions, and to have two quarterbacks of that caliber is pretty remarkable. That's head coach Rick Campbell again saying he was talking to Vernon Adams about it, wants to keep him, mentions his leadership. I wonder if also part of this is just injury insurance, right?

If the insurance factor is more valuable than whatever you could do with kind of a midseason trade. For Vernon Adams, of course, you know, we've seen BC Lions teams with two really good quarterbacks in the past, right? You go back, you think about Casey Printers and Dave Dickinson, right? And so it's not – now, that maybe didn't have the best ending that people want this time, but it's not unheard of in the CFL to have two really, really good options at quarterback.

It's going to be a difficult process. Obviously, a guy like Vernon Adams, what he's done in this league, he wants to play. So it's going to be a job for the coaching staff to kind of manage all of that. But very interesting to see how strongly they've come out to say we want to keep vernon adams around and we still value what he can bring yeah and that's kind of the the the big takeaway from what rick campbell said to me was that they really value his leadership and one thing that he mentioned as well later in the in the press conference i, was that when Vernon Adams was initially brought in, Nathan Rourke was still here, but he was injured.

So they've kind of gone through something like this before. Yep. And so maybe it's not that difficult of a thing. But, man, it's still like it's weird when you have two clearly elite quarterbacks, like two guys that at certain points you could consider the best quarterback in the league i don't know how long you can can have that and like i i very much doubt they would go into next season with the same situation and maybe it is just uh a thing where you look at it and you're like hey if one of these guys gets injured if it

takes work a little bit longer to adjust we have this insurance plan in place but it's uh it's weird because you can't put two quarterbacks out there at the same time or i mean you could imagine that next add some wrinkles to the playbook next week yeah rick campbell's like you know what first two quarterback play in history. It would be sick. So that's the latest on the Nathan Rourke returning to the BC Lions story. Again, he's going to talk to the media after our show. He'll practice with the team and then talk to the media later today. So we will continue to follow this. And, of course, Neil McEvoy joins us at 730 to weigh in on it as well.

A couple of other quick things we wanted to hit here in what we learned from the NHL yesterday. Another interesting story, not from an on-ice perspective, but Elliott Friedman reporting that the Tampa Bay Lightning have begun what he calls a multi-stage sale process that will value the team close to $2 billion. Jeff Vinnick, of course, the current owner of the Tampa Bay Lightning. I believe he bought them in 2010.

They've been wildly successful, obviously, under his watch. He's very, very popular. I think a lot of people look at him as kind of the gold standard for ownership in the NHL. He's going to, as part of the sale process, he's going to retain a big stake in the team, but also over the next few years remain in operational control, which is kind of interesting. New Percher believed to be Doug Ostrover, who's a founder of a successful investment firm.

The interesting thing for me here, and obviously is the price tag, right? And, you know, the senators sold for 950 million not that long ago. The Utah one was like 1.2. That is such a weird situation. I don't even know how much stock you can put in that price tag necessarily and you hear tampa for a close to 2 billion right so it could be you know 1.9 maybe even as low as 1.8 to still qualify as close to 2 billion but close to 2 billion and you know obviously like tampa's been wildly successful

great team they've won Stanley Cups. They're also not exactly a big traditional market right now. Now you can say, like, well, they have got all these advantages in attracting player talent in terms of taxes and the weather and all of that. But it's still a little surprising for me to see this type of valuation. And again, it just speak. I think one, it speaks to the overall health of the league. And also just the fact that sports teams are like a bulletproof investment. Almost.

Unless you really, really screw it up. But honestly, this is one of the reasons whenever CBA talks roll around and the owners are like, oh, we can't give an extra 2% of revenue to the players. It's like, the revenue doesn't even matter for them. It's all about much their investment increases right the growth and equity in the investment and this is just an incredible example of it bought the team for 170 million in 2010 now it's valued at close to two billion dollars and like look the the play of the team and all that does play a part in that but realistically it's it's the league that has seen such an increase in value in 14 years i guess like like i don't even know the percentage of that but it's a lot it's a lot of percentage and it's

1.8 billion dollars more than it was previously um when he bought the team before and that's that's crazy and so when we talk about like the salary cap stuff, this is why I'm like, man, why aren't we seeing... We've got to get to the point where we're seeing bigger jumps in the salary cap. Yeah, absolutely. At times, I think as a fan, you look at this and you're like, hey, this still isn't... You can't compare this value to teams in the NBA or teams in the NFL or anything like that, but you still see these huge price tags for teams and huge valuation for teams in the NHL and it's if you're a fan you look

at it and I don't think it's necessarily as reflected in the players and and tangible things as you would like to well and I think it's a good point and I also think if you're looking for optimism about the salary cap what this says and what the sales say is that there are people with a lot, a lot of money to throw around who are at least confident that the revenues are going to keep growing. Right. Because you're not paying two billion or close to valuing the lightning at close to two billion unless you think the future of the NHL is bright, unless you think the revenue streams are going to be there from a league-wide perspective. So it's an interesting story. We'll see where it goes with Jeff Vinnick potentially selling the Tampa Bay Lightning quickly in baseball. Mariners back on the field. Man, we were talking to Mike Lefkoe yesterday about the good vibes around the Mariners.

That did not carry over after the day off. They got rocked by the Tigers 15-1. That's not a good score. The rare bad start from a Seattle Mariners pitcher, George Kirby, giving up 11 runs in under four innings. So look, Hey,

they beat the Mets 12, one on Sunday. Now they lose 15, one. The great thing is it's only one win and one loss, right? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much you win by.

It doesn't matter how much you lose by. You can, you can forget about it. You can move on to the next game. But still a tough result on the out-of-town scoreboard. And there's now really two teams that Mariners fans are monitoring. The Astros beat the Rays 3-2. Meanwhile, Kansas City also had a tough night.

They lose to Minnesota 13-3. So, playoff standings update for the Mariners. They're one and a half games back of houston in the al west two games back of kansas city in the wild card so all of a sudden you're getting into this position where it might actually be more realistic for them or it's like at least about equal to be paying attention to the wild card which was not the case for a long time to me it just kind of feels like and i've thought this since houston caught up to the mariners is it just feels like the astros are gonna better run away yeah well they're they're better yeah and that they're gonna run away with it at some point whereas the royals i've just never

fully bought into i'm like bobby wood jr is good he's really good but the rest of them i don't know if i fully buy into the royals and and them being a clear playoff team so that's kind of the one i'm keeping an eye on but also the mariners they gotta get their stuff in gear too and that that's part of it and they've been better lately and the vibes i think are still good 15-1 loss hopefully doesn't ruin all of that but i i do think they they if i was to pick a route to the playoffs i think the wild card is the one i would be looking at yeah and i don't i don't know if the asters are gonna run away with it but i think the wild card is the one i would be looking at yeah and i don't i don't know if the asters are going to run away with it but i think they are clearly better than the mariners and now with one and a half game lead you probably like their chances to hold on over the remainder

of the season but as you said at least the wild card now potentially in play for the mariners as well quickly uh jays beat the angels uh as you said in the notes uh it's like what you're not going to root for them to tank so at least you can still enjoy a win it's like who cares about tanking yeah baseball you can get first overall and it's like I don't know will that guy be good maybe but it does make it even more irrelevant you know what I mean it's like

nothing matters truly either way for the end of this season that's great but Vladdy hits a dinger Will Wagner continues to be hot in his second ever mlb game goes two for four with a couple of doubles the other notable one from this one george springer gets hit in the foot by a pitch he starts to go down to first base the omp is like no no no what are you doing that didn't hit you they review it the video pretty clearly shows that it hit

george springer but there's still like, there's still like, no, it didn't hit you. He loses. It goes off on the umpire gets ejected. So we'll, we'll, I'll set this up now,

but I do want to talk about this on the other side. After we take a break here, which sport has the worst, or maybe to put it another way, which sport has the most annoying officials? Cause I do think those are different things, right? We have the, way, which sport has the most annoying officials? Because I do think those are different things, right? We have the which sport has the worst refereeing or officiating conversation fairly often.

But which sport just do they get under your skin the most in? Because I think it might be baseball for me. But we'll talk about that more on the other side here. The Roar is back at BC Place for the BC lions 70th season. Get your tickets now at bclions.com. Lots more to come here. Six 50, six 50 is the Dunbar lumber text line. Send your texts in. We'll talk a little Canucks in the next segment as well.

Here it is. Half an abrupt sports net six 50. welcome back to halvard and brough here sports Sportsnet 650. Jamie Dodd, Josh, Elia, Wolf. Halpern and Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. And of course, 650. 650 is the Dunbar Lumber text line. The Bridge Street Dunbar Lumber in Ladner has moved to progress way in tilbury's industrial park more room more products more awesome details at dumbar lumber.com of course we will do what we

learned at 8 30 so you can send your submissions and now hashtag wwl what you learned in the last 24 hours in sports we'll dive into the inbox and read some of those at 830. But I did want to dive into the inbox a little bit here as well. I mentioned it just before we went to break. George Springer, typically I would say mild-mannered George Springer. He's a pretty calm dude. Fun dude. Lost it in the Jays game yesterday after he thought, and video seemed to confirm, that he got hit on the foot.

Started to go to first base. Umpire called him back. Video review, again, showed George Springer pretty he got hit on the foot, started to go to first base, umpire called him back, video review, again, showed George Springer pretty much getting hit in the foot, umpires disagreed, and George Springer lost it, gets ejected from the game. So I threw the question out there, which sport has the worst or just the most annoying officiating?

And I do think you can make the argument for worst as well but most annoying to me is major league baseball there's something about the way that the umpires carry themselves that is just so frustrating to watch and i don't they're also not great at their job right and they have such an important job calling balls and strikes because when you think about how many decisions they have to make relative to the referees or the officials in other sports like they're making a judgment call constantly on balls and strikes they're not very good at it typically at least a lot of them aren't some of them are pretty i like that our our baseline for like not pretty good at it it's like oh he oh, he missed like six calls. Yeah, that's bad.

Yeah, out of 300 pitches. It's still bad. I agree. It's not 300 calls, though. Yeah, fair. Because you're just foul balls and stuff. So let's cut it down to 200. But the problem is that baseball is black and white.

Every other sport is subjective. You can't have something where it's like the little box when you're watching the baseball game. You know as the viewer, okay, that's a strike. That isn't a strike. There's holding every play in the NFL. There's calls that go unmade in NHL. We know that the postseason referees change.

This happens in other leagues, whereas baseball is so black and white that we get to be more critical of them. And quite honestly, I'd like to know what you guys think, too. Is this something where they're just going to be replaced soon so that every call is just perfectly made? I think that's part of the problem here is that we kind of know

they're obsolete. You know what I mean? It's like NHL refs say whatever you want about them, right? And I think you can make a case for them being pretty annoying, but robots cannot do their job, right? And I think you can make a case for them being pretty annoying. But robots cannot do their job, right? Like, they need to be there and they need to be involved in some capacity. So it's like, all right, we kind of got to put up with it. MLB umpires, it's like, we don't even necessarily need you at this point. And you're still super self-righteous about it.

And I think the other thing, as you said, having the box on the screen makes it worse, but also just the players know the strike zone way better than the umpires, right? I don't know. NHL refs as robots would be pretty entertaining. The more that I think about it. Like a Terminator bot breaking up fights. Yeah, throwing guys all over the place.

Yeah, exactly. Throwing them through the glass. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If you survive two minutes for roughing. I do think you could make a case for NHL refs maybe being

the second most annoying because... I don't know. Like, there's this whole... The whole game management thing is super annoying. Yeah, I guess it's annoying. What would your second

overall be, Josh? Like, we got a text on this, but soccer, I think, to me. Every time I watch soccer, I'm like, these guys are annoying. What would your second overall be, Josh? We got a text on this, but soccer, I think, to me. Every time I watch soccer, I'm like, these guys are annoying. And I just think they're the second most. What the hell is he holding the card up for? You know what the common theme is? There's a common theme here.

The refs and the sports that you're allowed to talk back to them get up in their face. The stuff that is said in nhl arenas to referees yeah like the way that baseball players like or managers come out and what is said to these guys is completely horrible well i will say in nhl refs favor they you're right they get a lot of talk back and they hold their cool yeah and again major Major League Baseball umpires will lose it back. What are you doing? You're the official.

You're the one supposed to be keeping the situation in control. They'll go right back at the manager or the player and yell at them. And that's probably what happened to George Springer yesterday, right? It becomes a fight. The umpire said something to him and he lost it. That's a good point, right? That's another strike against Major League Baseball umpires. It's like they're not capable of being the adults in the room the way that NHL refs are.

This doesn't happen in the NBA. This doesn't happen in the NFL. You talk to a ref like that, you're getting a 15-yard penalty. You're getting attacked. You're going to be out of the game soon. Like, that's a problem. I mean, you do get thrown out of the game in baseball. Right.

But, like, it is the, that's the most annoying thing about it to me is every time you see an MLB umpire trying to handle a situation, they just do it in the most condescending way possible. Yeah. And that's the frustrating part. It's like, man, you just don't seem like a likable person. Whereas when an NHL ref is getting talked back to, they're at least like, okay, I got to handle this situation. This is my job. This is part of the job.

I get it. So robot umpires wouldn't fight back. No. Well, you could program them to. That would be like. Again, going back to the Terminator. Oh, God, his eyes are glowing now. What does this mean?

This is the warning sign. He's raising his rocket launcher arm. Everyone run. Run for cover. Why did they put this in? JD says, bad soccer refs are the worst. Good soccer refs are the best. Everyone run run for cover Why did they put this in JD it's a quick what love says Bad soccer refs are the worst good Soccer refs are the best such a huge swing

In the same sport I think that's a good Point I will say also And look this is maybe because I don't I'm Not a hardcore soccer fan so I'm not like Living and dying with any results Necessarily but some soccer Refs have like pretty entertaining mannerisms You know what i mean

like everyone complains about diving in soccer which is fair but sometimes when the refs know it's a dive and the guy's like on the ground yelling for a foul and the ref just does the like get up motion as he's like running the other way to cover the play it's like that's funny you don't get that in any other sport it's like good for you ref you're ripping that guy on the field so the the one thing that i was thinking about with the soccer thing that came up during Copa when Canada had a match reffed by this referee, Piero Mazza, he was the guy that had the personalized yellow cards that just had his face on them. I think he had a red card with his face on it, too.

Didn't get to use that one as much. That's insane. And then he was not allowed to use those. They were like, what are you doing? Very quickly quickly do not customize your yellow cards but i love that it's but that's still like that's annoying and that's kind of like man you shouldn't be you shouldn't think you're the show i guess yeah enough to the point where you're putting your face on yeah that's the thing that's uh to me, top two is baseball and soccer. So Jeremy and Langley texted, MLB umpires are so entertaining and make the sport unique, especially live.

What the hell are you guys talking about? But see, that's my issue is that they think they're part of the show and you shouldn't be. And I think, you know, the referees that haven't come up so far in this discussion are NFL referees. And I think largely, not that they are perfect obviously everyone can recount like calls that went against their team or calls that made them really angry but they never make themselves the center of the show in a way like all the other sports that we're talking about do occasionally we haven't talked about the nba but there's you know guys who put a lot of mustard on a big offensive foul call right and it's like oh

we're not here to see you call charging buddy buddy. Like, rein it in a little bit. I think what NFL refs do the best and what most fans want ultimately is just do your job. Do not insert yourself into the drama. We want to see the athletes do cool things. We don't want to see you with attitude. We don't want to see you with flair. We want to think about you as little as possible.

And that's where MLB umpires really fall yeah and when we talk about like the the the flip side of this the who's the kind of best refs I guess NFL always comes up to me just because it's such a hard sport yeah uh Ben I think it was you that mentioned there's holding on every play it's so difficult to call and I think fans give them a little bit of grace because it's like man I know like we can tell that this is a difficult game to referee whereas baseball you look at it and it's like man I see the box right here

just do it right and again the players know like the players the really good hitters they know when a ball is an inch off the plate on the outside right so they're leaving it very much on purpose because they're like that's a ball I'm not going to swing. And then the ref screws it up.

And so I think that always drives me nuts is the discrepancy between the skill of the players and the skill of the umpires who are supposed to be helping the game. You don't get that in any other sport, right? Like there's no situation in hockey where you're seeing how lacking the judgment of the refs is in relation to the players. They might do other annoying things,

but there's nothing quite like that situation in Major League Baseball. So I think they are the kings. They're the most annoying across sports. Good for them. 650-650. Mike, the urologist from Brockville. I think judo referees are the worst. They hand out those penalties for not engaging pretty inconsistently,

though they are oddly well-dressed. Did you watch any of this? Is this a reference to something? I don't know. Did you watch any of the judo? I watched just like bits and pieces of it. I confess I didn't notice the wardrobe of the rest. When I was hosting with Jason Brough two weeks ago,

judo was just on while we were in here. And I was like, I the olympics i will watch whatever is on 100 i'll sit there and i will watch judo and it was uh they they are very well dressed look up a judo referee very well dressed i have no what are we talking here like suits they were like they got like bow ties and stuff it's kind of like um top hats maybe not that far but they they're really well dressed yeah they look good yeah all right but anyway so they're probably the best if we're being real just based on they're the best dressed no they're just oh they're just the best okay interesting i'm not i'm not in a position to uh i'm not in a position to to comment on the talent

of the judo refs. Other people are texting, like, cricket is so good and rugby. I'll take your word for it, guys. Rugby is a lot of respect. That text is real. That's fair. I like the tennis refs because they sit up really high on those big seats. They got a little shade thing. Tennis refs are good.

They kind of look like lifeguards. And then they have to go up to the umpire and look up to him. You are in control. And also, speaking of doing a good job of not getting involved, tennis players get heated sometimes. And typically the official for tennis is

just up there being cool. Although sitting up super high, a little condescending. That's not their decision. It makes them seem like they're better than everybody else. Oh, he gets to sit up so high. You got to see where the ball goes. I know, but it's a little bit hoity-toity. It's part of the job.

I want them running around. Just be one of the guys, man. Yeah, exactly. Be a man of the people. Be one of the guys. Just hang out. Have a beer. Whatever you say.

You don't need to sit up all night like that. We got cameras and everything now. You'll see where the ball is. It's not that serious. Yeah, who cares? All right. It is Halford and Brough. Your sports bet, $6.50. You can keep your text coming in

650-650 to the Dunbar Lumber text line. We'll talk to Luke Horak coming up at 7 o'clock. He covers the Blues for NHL.com about the twin offer sheets the Blues hit the Edmonton Oilers with yesterday. Before we get there,

we've been talking to Little Canucks every day this week, kind of working through the different aspects of the team, looking back on how they've changed, what to expect, what we expect in this upcoming season from the team. We've done the forwards, we've done the blue line.

So we're on to goaltending this year. What will be next? Who knows? We'll see. These three easy to predict. What the other ones will be? Could be anything. We're talking about the seats tomorrow. Oh, boy, are we?

Ryan Henderson on line one. Seat gate. Goaltending is fascinating, right? Because it's pretty easy to look at the Canucks' goaltending situation and with what Thatcher Demko did pre-injury and what Archer Shelovs did in the playoffs be very very very excited about what you might get from Canucks goalies this year and feel really really good about it but also implicit in what I just said right is what Thatcher Demko

did pre-injury we all know his injury history at this point and Archer Shelovs for as good as he looked in the playoffs is still a very young and very untested goalie so this is a fascinating position for the Canucks with I think a ton of upside but inherently it's goaltending so there's always going to be those doubts and those question marks too yeah and when I look at it the the what I was thinking about yesterday was just how much pressure I guess is going to be on Artur Shilov. Not to be amazing, and obviously he's not going to have a starting role, but just to be adequate and be a capable backup

and be able to take games from Thatcher Demko because if you're the Canucks, you do not want Thatcher Demko to have to play as many games as they felt he needed to play last season down the stretch before he got injured because he's been oft injured and that's if you're a team that needs your goalie to be good if you're going to go far in the playoffs like most teams do but especially the Vancouver Canucks when you rely on Thatcher Demko you need to figure out a way to kind of lighten the workload during the season

and so the biggest question mark to me is going to be Archer Shelovs can he take a step can he be a guy who is challenging Thatcher Demko and not a not a 1A 1B situation but at least whenever you turn to Shelovs you are confident and when at times when the Canucks turned to Casey DeSmith last season there wasn't a confidence there and sometimes I think they were a little too quick to kind of pull the plug on Casey DeSmith and um went away from him didn't trust him I wouldn't say they weren't confident he seemed fine uh they he went through a stretch there they were confident earlier in the year but then when his number, he had that one game in Minnesota. I think it was Minnesota game aside.

And then they were gun-shy about going to him after that. January, February, I think it was. Whatever it was pre-Demko injury. And then when Demko got injured, they obviously trusted him and it was fine. But I think there were times they could have gone to him a little bit more. But that being said, I wonder if there's more of a trust with Shelovs,

especially because you're also going to be trying to balance the development side of this as well. And like, hey, you might feel more of a need to get him in games. Whereas with DeSmith, you weren't worried about developing him. He was just a guy. Yeah, you knew who he was. Yeah.

Well, Demko can't play it. He just can't play as many games as he did last year. He just can't. Well, and I think the thing is it's partly on Shilov's, and we can put Yuri Patera in there as well as the new goalie that they brought in to the organization. But I think a large part of this is on the coaching staff as well. At a certain point, unless your backup goalie is truly unplayable,

like just not on an NHL standard, you can't have too high expectations for your backup. You have to play them still, right? And you just got to stick to it. You have to have a plan and you have to be able to stick to it. What's the magic number for Demko, like 55 games or something? I think the last. Yeah, I was going to say 50-ish.

50 in the regular season. If you want him to be fresh for potentially a long playoff drive, I think you're aiming for 50. Especially if he ends up being one of those guys that has recurring injuries or he's like the Brock Besser in goaltending. There's always something wrong with the guy. If Demko's going to be in that position where he gets injured easily and you know you're going to be making a deep playoff run next year,

which hopefully they will be, yeah, you can't play him that much. And I think there are a few reasons why it should be easier for the coaching staff and for the team as a whole to kind of stick to a plan to limit Demko. One, the pressure to get off to the good start, much less this year. Now, obviously, you still need to play well from the beginning of the season, but it's not the same immense pressure as there was going into last year, right? We're like, oh, man, we have to do everything right.

We can't allow any doubts to creep in. We have to crush this. Now, to be fair, early in the year, Casey to Smith started the second game. So they still were pretty good about going to Casey to Smith early. But I think just in general, there's less pressure to rack up an incredible start to the season. That should help. You should have more confidence in your team defensive game that you can put out there now in front of a backup goalie after the performance they had last year and I think a big part of this as well is I don't think there's any

doubt that Rick Talkett trust Archer she loves because we saw him go to Archer she loves when Casey Smith probably could have played I know in the first instance it was an injury thing but then it was Archer she loves net right so i think rick talk it obviously has a certain level of trust in what she loves can do in that especially having done it in the playoffs now there really are to me again unless she loves is really bad but even then you have yuri patera that you can turn to there aren't a lot of excuses for running up the games played total for thatcher demko at this point you have everything everything in place, the team defense, buy-in between management and coaching staff, trust between management and coaching staff, all of those things.

You have everything you need, the talented backup, to play Thatcher Demko an appropriate, adequate amount to get him rested. And the other thing is, this isn't Rick Tockett's first full year with the Canucks anymore. He knows what Thatcher Demko injury situation is is he knows that he has to find ways to and i believe he's talked about it as well find ways to play him a little less and so i i think when and we'll maybe talk about coaching at some point this this week when we talk about what rick tockett can improve on into this going into this season,

which isn't a lot because he won Coach of the Year. He was amazing. But something like that is something that can be worked on by the coaching staff. And again, I do think there's going to be more of a trust and more of a need as well to start Archer Shelovs more than you did Casey Dismitt. Because I just go back to if he's going to be your backup this year, you still have to develop him too.

So you at least have to get him into 25, hopefully 30 games and see what he can be for you because you might have to – he might be your starter in a couple of years. Well, and I think it's worth noting, you know, as much as Archer Shelovs is the presumptive NHL guy, I mean, it's totally possible that Yuri Patera ends up playing more in the NHL, right? Especially if they do prioritize the development of Shelovs and think that the better developmental environment would still be at least largely in Abbotsford. That's something that could happen. I wouldn't necessarily count on it, but that's at least an option on the table

or something to be considered as well. You know, I'll also say as much as there's not the same pressure to get off to a really, really good start on the team this year, one of the things that does really help if you're trying to balance your goalies workload is getting off to a good start, right? So you're not constantly chasing a playoff spot. And I think even last year, while they were having that dream season there was almost a fear of

if we go to casey dismiss too much are we going to sap all our momentum is it are we going to like wake up from this dream right and i think they should have more confidence as an organization this year no we've just established ourselves as a really good team we're going to be fine we're a team that's good enough to win without thatcher demko and net that has not been their identity for a long time but it should be their identity going into this year and i think it will be like they there's it seems like there's this new confidence around the team and going into the season and i'm sure we'll we'll see where it goes in training camp and pre- preseason and where their confidence is at going into the season, but there should be more of an aura around the team heading into the season

as opposed to last year, justifiably not really having that. Not that much of an aura last year. No, they had negative aura, as the kids would say. Is that what the kids say now? Negative aura? Negative aura. I was about to say that's what the kids are saying. Is positive the flip side of that? No, you just have aura Negative aura? Negative aura. I was about to say that's like very like that's what the kids are saying. Is positive the flip side of that?

No, you just have aura. You either have aura or negative aura. I think aura points are a thing too. I'm not that deep into it. Kids say negative aura? Negative aura. Yeah. That's such a negative aura thing of you to say. It's like when you're not cool. When you don't have the riz. Exactly.

When your vibes aren't good, you got negative aura. It's really oddly specific for a... I know, man. Fox. Gen Alpha quote, I guess? Gen Alpha is what we're talking about? We're past Gen Z now.

It's Gen Alpha, right? How do they name these? I don't know. I want to be Gen Alpha. That sounds so much cooler. How old are you? I'm born in 98. He's Gen Z.

He's Gen Z. We're Gen Z. But Gen Alpha is... We're kind of like in between generations. I think, yeah, you're borderline millennial. Yeah. No, you guys are Gen Z. I think we're definitely Gen Z.

Don't call that such an insult to them. They were like, God! Isn't millennial like 80 to 2000? Isn't that the generation? We'll do our research. It's all arbitrary nonsense anyway. I think everyone has a different interpretation of what it is. Alpha just sounds so much sicker.

Yeah. Damn it. Get ready for the ultimate sports fan trip to Michigan from September 27th to October 1st. Experience games at the Big House, Comerica Park, and Ford Field. Contact Neil Chark at neilc at uniglobecarefree.ca for details. Lou Korak covers the blues for NHL.com. He joins us next to talk about those offer sheets here on Halford & Brough Sportsnet

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