Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 11/14/24

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they preview tonight's 'Nucks home matchup versus the Isles with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance, plus the boys tell us what they learned. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford & Brough. You're listening to Halford & Brough. Great pass ahead by Tynan. Score! Ranted it! Here's Tavares in on a break. Wayynan. Score! Rantanen! Here's Tavares. It'll break. It'll go.

Score! Johnny Toronto scores! Turn shoots. And switches for 50. He's not human. He's an alien. He's tapping his chest as he goes the other way saying, this is my house.

This is my house. This is my house. Good morning, Vancouver 601 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. It is Halford and his bruv. It is Sportsnet 650 and we are coming to you live from the Kintex studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning.

A-Dawg, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddy, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and bruv for the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff. They can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 1 of the program. Hour 1 is brought to you by Northstar Metal Recycling.

Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. Northstar Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Orfee, what are you waiting for? Kintec, we got a big show ahead on a Thursday.

Lots to dive into on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Guest list begins today at 6.30. Our good buddy Ryan Kennedy from the Hockey News is going to join us. So yesterday, spoke to Frank Cervalli from the NHL General Manager's meetings, and Frank wrote a big story about everything that was going on. One of the things that dominated the conversation there was this NCAA Canadian Hockey League decision where players are now essentially allowed to freely move between the two platforms.

So we'll talk to Ryan at 6.30, sort of veteran hockey prospects writer for the Hockey News. But what it all means. I thought you were going to say a different name there. We're getting the guy everyone's talking about, Ryan Kennedy. No, the other one, Ryan K.

Ryan Kennedy is going to join us at 6.30. 7 o'clock, Adnan Virk from MLB Network. Juan Soto, Blue Jays, maybe? We'll talk to Adnan about that. It's confirmed. And we'll do... Not confirmed. We will also do a little hockey talk with Adnan as well.

7.30, Andrew Gross from Newsday is going to join us. He's the Isles beat writer. The Isles are in town tonight. Yes, Bo Horvat, back in Vancouver. It's the Isles and the Canucks. 7 o'clock from Rogers Arena. Tonight, we will preview the Isles side of things with Andrew Gross at 7.30. 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance, the Drancer from the Athletic Vancouver

and Canucks talk right here on Sportsnet 650. We'll look at the Canucks side of things ahead of tonight's game. It is a good sports night tonight. We have 10 NHL games, including the Canucks and Islanders. We have a very good Thursday night football game between the Washington Commanders and the Philadelphia Eagles. And with this weather that we're having, Jason, not a bad night to stay inside and watch sports

and work on your couch groove. So we got a lot to get into. Lovely weather, I gotta say. Isn't that right, Andy? Love it. So cozy. So nice. Without further ado, Laddie, That's not right, Andy. Love it. So cozy. So nice. Without further ado, Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by

the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. Yes, the Vancouver Canucks had a well-deserved day off yesterday, but there's no day off for Canucks Talk here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. We managed to drum up two exciting pieces of content for you.

Two questions to ponder. Wow, they were pondered yesterday. If you want to ask what happened yesterday, basically there were two questions that ruled the airwaves. Number one was, is Petey back? And number two is, should we forgive Ryan Kessler? Let's get to Pedersen first. I'm not willing to say he's officially back because, one,

I want to see it for more than two games, and two, and this is a credit to Pedersen, not criticism. I still don't think he's playing at the level he's reached before. But I will say that I'm glad we're able to have this conversation because we weren't even entertaining this question, what, a week ago? I would say probably at the end of October, right? Feels like when the calendar changed to November, this conversation wasn't able

to happen and then over the course of five games this month I don't think it's five games I think it's two for me two games for me where where he's like I know he's been doing some good defensive stuff and all that sort of stuff but I think it's only two games for me the Oilers game and the last game against the Flames where I've been like, oh, maybe he's finding something here. Actually, you know what? The game in Anaheim, very low key might have been a turning point for him because he did get a goal, remember, albeit sort of they gave it to Quinn Hughes and they took it away and they gave it back.

Six shots on net was the big one. You know, if you listen to enough of the punditry outside of our bubble here in Vancouver, a lot of people were saying they correlated Pedersen's success or lack thereof with Pedersen not shooting the puck or at the very least not shooting the puck on target to where the goalie had to make a save. It was the way he shot the puck, though,

in the last two games, not the Anaheim game. The last two games, the way he shot it and, you know, picks it up quickly, shoots it, has something on it. The next thing you're going to need to see is him beating guys one-on-one a little bit more. But he made some great plays in the Calgary game. I imagine we'll see the same forward lines tonight as we saw against Calgary, except for possibly the addition of dakota joshua to the fourth line presumably i suppose if he would go in there it would be in place

of baines but this hasn't been confirmed because the canucks had a day off yesterday uh they'll have a morning skate this morning in the morning when morning skates happen yes uh but you know it's been it's been a little bit non-committal from the Canucks when it comes to Dakota Joshua. So Rick Taka did suggest that Thursday was a possibility for him to make his season debut, but we'll just have to wait and see on that. Petey is likely to stay with Garland and DeBrusque

while I don't see any reason to break up Miller with Leckermackie and Suter. Let that roll. And to the original question, I do think that there's a lot of really positive signs here. Yeah, absolutely. I also think that the declaration of, is he back? It's a difficult one because i think what we're slowly starting to realize is that pedersen is slowly going to get back to whatever form he had if he's able to

get there is that one thing i'm pretty certain on is it's not going to be that lightning bolt snap of the fingers moment where it went really bad and then all of a sudden he's like all right enough's enough it's time for pd to be ep EP40. There's a gradual slow burn that's happening. Although I did think... I thought it would be different. I thought it would just be kind of like he finds it. And, you know, but yeah, maybe it's going to be a gradual build. I mean, keep building.

Keep building all season then, Petey. By the time you get to the playoffs, you'll be, I don't know, the greatest player in the world. I did think that the remarks from Rick Tauke that we played yesterday were pretty interesting, which he said, like, Petey realizes that enough's enough and it's time to get things going. That would correlate with one of those, all right, let's take a jump forward.

But you look at it, the last two games, his first and only multi-point games of the season, they come in back-to-back efforts. So you can kind of see an ascension here. Bottom line is it's a good thing because that allows us to focus on other problems with the team. No, what it does is it allows that forward group that you really wanted to see won at full strength. And they're getting closer and closer with the return of Dakota Joshua.

Although Brock Besser doesn't sound like he's going to be back for a while. And now we've got to wait on that. But if that's the only piece missing, I'm going to be dead honest. You've got to be back for a while. And now we've got to wait on that. But if that's the only piece missing, I'm going to be dead honest, you've got to be pretty happy. When we do the Islanders preview, we'll look at, they're ravaged by injury right now. They've got injuries all over the place. This is why you'll see a few guys tonight,

you're like, I have no idea who that guy is. But if Petey can be close to that top level, and they get Joshua back, suddenly you're looking at a forward group, and you're like, yeah, they're deep, they're dynamic, and it gives a lot of different glass half full is options. Glass less half full. The negative part is that it's a,

it's a log jam for Rick talking it forward. Austin and Langley texts in. And if you want to text into the Dunbar lumber text line, it's six 50, six 50, the bridge street Dunbar lumber and Ladner has moved to progress way in Tilbury's industrial park. More room, more product, more awesome.

Details at DunbarLumber.com. Austin writes in and he says, I think Petey is back. Now, to be fair, I think he still has another level, but he's confident again. He's smiling and looks like he's enjoying hockey again. That's a lot of progress from a few weeks ago you know it's it's it's weird to to cover

an athlete like this but yes his smiles per 60 are increasing and like i'm serious but like i know honestly smiles per 60 the guy the guy looks when he is in a slump he just looks like and you know the other day after the calgary game the other day after the calgary game he spoke to the ringside reporter and he looked genuinely happy about it like he was he was like you know he he had a genuine it wasn't a forced smile or anything like i don't like covering sports like this like, you know, he had a genuine, it wasn't a forced smile or anything. Like, I don't like covering sports like this. Like, is he smiling? Does he look happy?

Is that a fake smile? Frowns for 60 down, smiles for 60 up. Turn those frowns for 60 upside down. I know, you know what I noticed was when Branstrom. Because it's funny because everyone says, sorry, sorry, but like. It doesn't matter. No, no, no. But when everyone says that, like JT Miller wears his heart on his sleeve and like you can always tell if he's frustrated or not, like different.

But Petey's the same way. I'm with you. I don't like covering athletes in sports like this because I think if someone's the strong, silent, quiet type, that's their personality, right? They shouldn't change their personality so that a lot of people sitting at home can be like, ooh, he looks happy or he looks determined or he looks focused. But I did notice in the game that we went to against Calgary,

when Branstrom scored, there was a real sense of elation from number 40 because he was on the ice at the time. And I like, obviously, it's like another point. Yeah, for a sweep. Also happy for Branstrom.

Right, and he's a fellow sweep. Like you could see the camaraderie there, right? So it's like another point. Yeah. First, also happy for Branstrom. Right. And he's a fellow sweet. Like you could see the camaraderie there. Right. So it's a good thing. It's a happy thing. Speaking of happy things, is the collective mood in Vancouver ready to forgive and to forget and to have a big grin on its collective face when it comes to Ryan Kessler? So yesterday, Drance and Dodd had Kessler on Canucks Talk. Ryan Kessler is here coaching his kids team, Detroit Little Caesars,

very famous program in the U.S. It's the Pat Quinn classic. It starts today. It goes through to the 17th of November. And once again, we got to the relitigation of Ryan Kessler's time in Vancouver and his legacy. Now, at that same game that we were at against Calgary on Tuesday night, Ryan Kessler was in the crowd and the camera panned over to him. And he stood up and he slammed a beer and everyone cheered very loudly as you do

whenever anyone on the big screen slams a beer. Now, the only difference here is that unlike most beer drinkers on camera, the crowd then started to chant his name. The Ryan Kessler chant went throughout Rogers Arena, and it really apparently, in the subsequent interviews, it took Kessler by surprise, and it really warmed his heart. Yeah, he kept chugging beers, and they kept chanting his name. He was like, I'll get to me some more beers here.

What else? Every time the camera comes to him, he gets handed another beer. He's like, all right, here we go again. That also warmed his heart. Fluids. My conspiracy theory, by the way, is that the beer had only a quarter of it left, but he made it look like it was full so he could chug it really quickly. I've seen that one before.

You slide your hand up the cup to cover up the empty part. I think I've done it before. I've done it before. That's could chug it really quickly. I've seen that one before. You slide your hand up the cup. Oh, yeah. I think I've done it before. I've done it before. That's why it's the conspiracy theory. Like if you're ever in like a boat racing contest or a beer chugging contest. Anyway, let's play the audio from yesterday. This is Ryan Kessler with Dranson Dodd on Canucks Talk

talking about his time in Vancouver and what it's all meant coming back for this latest tour. You know, looking back, I probably should have stayed here. But that 2011 loss was probably the hardest loss I've ever had in my entire life. And to be that close, I wanted to do it. And, you know, I wish I just could do it over again. You can't.

It's 2020. But, you know, I enjoyed my time in Anaheim, but my heart was always in Vancouver. But Marge, look at that hang dog expression. He's learned his lesson. Let's get him a present. Here's the thing. I thought we already got him the present. We did this, right?

Did I miss the part where we all sort of nodded and smiled and said, okay, we forgive you. We had him on this show. It's like everyone forgot. He's just reminding people again, okay, we forgive you. We had him on this show. It's like everyone forgot. He's just reminding people again, hey guys. So Joe in the fort, which I'm assuming is Fort St. John, not a fort he's built in his living room.

Although, he's under the couch cushions right now. He said, I thought we'd already forgiven Kessler like two years ago. Yeah, I kind of thought the same thing. I guess it's never a bad thing to retell a story, especially in this market. Wasn't that the Sedin retirement jersey? Was he there, right? Yeah.

Was that when it was, though? Right. And then remember, he also came back last year during the playoffs and did the horn. Was he there for the Luongo night? He cranked the horn. Was he there for Luongo night? I think he's been back a few times. I know that in his post-playing career, and this is me being sincere for a moment here.

I know in his post-playing career, Ryan Kessler's not had an easy go of it. I know that there's been a lot of health concerns that I think led to him sort of being in like in a dark spot with where things were going post playing because he didn't really have a purpose and he had a ton of health concerns and he was trying to figure out what he was going to do next.

And he's been very revitalized by coaching. That was, if you go read Ben Kuzma's article, it's up at the province. It's a really, really good look into how coaching with this Little Caesars program has really reinvigorated Kessler and given him a sense of what I want to do and what's important to me. And I think most importantly is love of the game. He always loved hockey.

You could tell that whenever he played. Now, the divorce from vancouver i almost feel like it's a siloed off conversation because it was a it was a snapshot of a moment in time where he was upset he wanted to try something new the organization was upset and dysfunctional if you will and it felt like it needed to go in a different direction as well well it not originally that that that was the that was the thing right like the eventually everyone left right sure you know some the sanine stayed on a little bit longer but eventually you know it it all came to an end but i think the way that Kessler did it, do you remember?

I very distinctly remember the way Kessler did it. Yeah, well, I remember talking to him in Sochi. And, you know, and then, so that was 2014, obviously. And then there were rumors at the Olympics that Kessler was telling people that he wants to be traded. Yep.

That's how it went, right? And then those rumors later became. Well, and then he denied them. Yeah. He said, that's not true. And I think that was part of it.

Right. Like there was like, and, and, and a lot of, and you'd had the argument, well, what's he supposed to say?

Yeah. I want to be traded in the middle of the season. Right. Like, but you know, he did, he did lie about it. Right.

And the, the all kind of the juxtaposition to that was Kevin BX is saying, But he did lie about it, right? And kind of the juxtaposition to that was Kevin Bieksa saying, I'm going down with this ship. I'm a Canuck. And then eventually Bieksa did get traded, but that was because the organization wanted to do it. Yeah, and he helped facilitate something that the organization wanted, as opposed to Kessler, who put the organization in a box. Yes. It was like, we're not

going to get full. And here's the thing. As we relitigate all of this, it starts to matter less and less, because Kessler said, I screwed up. I made a mistake. I shouldn't have done it. I should have stayed in Vancouver. And he feels bad about it. If someone's going to come

back and be that reflective and open and honest, like how would you not forgive? How would you not forget, right? Someone's sort of on bended knees saying, hey, look, I know that what I did at the time hurt a lot of people and made a lot of people upset. And I have regrets about it. Regrets I have many.

Can I also say that even like Ryanyan kessler said you know i've never taken a loss harder than game seven in 2011 well yeah so the fans too and that contributed to it we were all hurt and fragile and sensitive and a little bit volatile in those years after that loss. Sure. And I think that contributed to the hard feelings towards Ryan Kessler when he left. In some ways, we were like, take us with you. You know what I mean?

I'm upset you're leaving also. Can I come? So here's the other question. We're stuck here. We're the loyal fans, and you get to go chase a cup with a very good Anaheim team. And frankly, he came close. Yep. here we're the loyal fans and you get to go chase a cup with a very good anaheim team and frankly he came close yep like the they didn't get to the final but that series they played with chicago

in 2015 i guess yep was it yeah that was an incredible game that was in the black box ultimately won but yeah that was that that was it yeah but i think think probably Ryan Kessler is like, yeah, Anaheim though. I mean, he's not going to go to an Anaheim game and the fans are going to chant his name. Half the fans there would be like, who's that guy chugging beers? That's cool that he's chugging a beer. Yeah. Oh, look, he's got nice tattoos. Right? right like it's just it's just very different and i think he realizes that vancouver is a completely

different hockey market yeah and if he wants to be remembered fondly in this game if he wants to have a legacy and and i think this has something to do with his kids too and his and his son was at the game and i think that that was one of the things that was very special for him, the game against the Flames. Like your kid is there and you're in an arena with 20,000 fans chanting your name. Like that's a special moment for you to have as a former athlete, his son being old enough to appreciate that moment as well. So I don't know, like I, maybe what happened also was that he saw that Alex Edler recently got a, got a, got a ceremony and he was like, oh man, it would be nice to be honored.

You know, I guess we could have the, the old ring of honor debate when it comes to Ryan Kessler. I don't know what it meant when Alex Edler had his ceremony. Does that mean that he's not going into the Ring of Honor? So this is one of the great things about this city and this organization and this market. Is there certain very distinct and unique conversations that you can only have as a Vancouver Canucks fan? Alex Edler's no ring of honor ceremony.

Like, they have this big ceremony just because they feel bad about not being a ring of honor. Because we're so hyper-focused on everything the team does, and because the team makes these decisions sometimes, that they probably mean well, but as we always say, the unintended consequences of it all is there's now unofficially three tiers of recognition and three tiers of legacy in Vancouver. The first is the most obvious one. You get your number retired and it gets raised to the Rogers Arena rafters.

That's the highest honor. It's for a select few. Everyone knows it. Then there's tier two, and that's the ring of honor. Now, I'm not saying that this is how the Canucks organized it and laid it out in a plan, but this is just how it's kind of evolved. And for some guys, it's a real honor. For other guys, it's a slap in the face. Which is what happens when you have tiers of legacy.

Now, apparently, there's a third tier where you come back and you get your one day contract as a vancouver connect and they bring you out in a sort of ceremony also known as the kiss of death but it's not supposed to be that way it is that's what bx got right he signed a one-day contract with the canucks and he retired with them all All of these are supposed to be nice moments and gestures to recognize all of these players. It just happens to be that there's different layers of them now. And there is a hierarchy. And the tipping point, obviously, was Luongo.

I think we can all agree that suddenly it became the difference between getting your jersey retired and being in the Ring of Honor. And I know nobody meant it to be this way, but I do wonder at a certain point if someone was looking at it and they're like, hey, I wonder if this is ever going to become contentious instead

of being a nice, kind gesture that we give to ex-players. And also, the Ring of Honor is getting quite full. Well, that's what Kessler pointed out. So in the article with Coos, he said, it's filling up pretty quick, not a lot of spots left. To which I said, I'm not sure that there's a cap on the Ring of Honor.

Well, graphically, there is. You're going to have to shrink all the pictures and stuff. I don't think that's it. Just add another deck to the stadium. Yeah, sure. I don't think it's that difficult to change the font size. It's great for sports radio, because you can have so many arguments about this

because, you know, you can be like, well, the difference between Kessler on the one hand and BXN Adler on the other is that Kessler won a major NHL award with the Selkie trophy. So that, that gets you into the ring.

Like I, I think, I mean, apropos of nothing here i think it's fair to suggest that if matthias oland is in the ring of honor that alex edler should be in the ring of honor as well like the stats support my argument as well like quinn hughes is going to surpass alex edler not mat Matthias Oland and Alex Edler surpassed Matthias Oland as a matter of fact if you go to the Wikipedia page for the Ring of Honor the key note for Matthias Oland's entry into the Ring of Honor is that he was the quote-unquote former highest scoring defenseman in franchise history right that's because he was passed by

so what's the key category to get you in the Ring of Honor because there doesn't seem to be a criteria then well it's like the Hall of Fame right it's it's we don't know what's the key category to get you in the Ring of Honor? Because there doesn't seem to be a criteria then. Well, it's like the Hall of Fame, right? We don't know how the debate goes. Maybe they felt that, I don't know, Matthias Ohlin just had something that Alex Edler did in all this. Edler would wave. I'll have you all know there is a certain radio host. If you would have waved, we would have put you there.

There is a certain radio host in Vancouver that did write the definitive ring of honor piece in 2018. That was you. It was me. It was you. Well, cause you actually talked to some people in the organization. I actually did some reporting. Wow.

It was the only time you ever did that. It was once actually twice. I did something on the young stars classic too. With this was about Burroughs, whether or not he would get in. So this kind of dates the story and this was right after he had been bought out by ottawa and you could see that the end was nigh for his nhl career and i remember thinking at the time someone should figure out exactly what

the criteria is so we stopped guessing all the time and then i went and asked around the organization and i got back a lot of like very vague and very nebulous responses which led me to believe that there isn't like the two tablets written in stone about what the rules are i guarantee there's not there's not at all there's a selection committee which is uh comprised see and that was the thing it's comprised of certain people but other people contribute to it like it's not like the hall of fame at all and also the organization moves on you know and when matthias olin was put into the ring of honor they hadn't i mean they still haven't won the stanley cup but the 2011 era hadn't happened then yeah well right the funny part was when they first started the Ring of Honor,

they put people in with regularity. Like, if you go back and look, they were putting people in routinely. And then it slowed down. And then it's funny because Kessler's talking. Actually, Olin went in in 2016. So, what? Olin went in in 2016. Yeah.

I was just like, I don't know. I'm just confused by it. Olin's one of the more recent entries. Like, they've only put in three people in the. Yeah. I was just like, I don't know. I'm just confused by it. Olin's one of the more recent entries. Like they've only put in three people in the last eight years. So are they going to wait then? That's the thing. The criteria is very vague.

It just kind of feels like whenever they feel that it's time. Burroughs went in almost right away. Yes. Oh, trust me. Having done far too much research on the Ring of Honor, there's not a lot of rhyme

or reason to any of it there's no magic algorithm there's not find on this i asked is there a waiting period between when you retire and when you're entering no i'm like is there an amount of time like the major league baseball hall of fame where if you're on the ballot for 10 years you can no longer be entered nope there's nothing like that none of this stuff exists it's just kind of left up to a handful of people, which includes Stan Smeal on the selection committee. And I think they just honestly arbitrarily decide when it's time. It's like, it's your time now. Flip a coin.

Matias Oland, right? Or Roberto Luongo. And he's like, I thought I was getting my jersey retired. They're like, not so fast. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. What we just have to call Thomas Grant's erotica. Thomas Grant's erotica.

Corsi. Thomas Grant's erotica. Expecting goals Thomas Grant's Erotica Top model Thomas Grant's Erotica Red Russian Thomas Grant's Erotica PDO

Thomas Grant's Erotica Thomas Dren's Veronica. P.D.O. Thomas Dren's Veronica. Without Quinn Hughes, right, this team's results are like consistent with Columbus, right? With Quinn Hughes. With Quinn Hughes. What's a more straightforward argument to make for MVP. Sorry? 803 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody.

Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Oh, Laddie, I love you. Halford Brough in the morning. I'm glad you kept it at that because after that, it got worse. That's the word we're looking for. Oh, panicky. That's the one. And then you lashed out at me.

I did lash out at you. That was the personal highlight for me. You always lash out at the ones you love. It suddenly became my fault. He's like, well, you didn't help any. I'm like, oh, don't. Just like a reflex. What are you saying F me for?

What did I do? Half and Breath of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 3 of the program. Hour 3 is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell & Pound.

Visit them on the internet at campbell-pound.com today we are coming to you live from the Kintec studio Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star google reviews sore feet what are you waiting for Kintec to the phone lines we go Thomas Drance joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650 what up Drancer I like the Charlie Brown parents bit that's good Charlie Brown's teacher that was Charlie Brown it was just adults in general. Was it adults? Yeah, it was.

It was adults. There we go. But yeah, no, and Jason texted me and was like, oh, I'm so sorry, man. And it felt to me almost like, you know when you have those people in your life who are just always at your house when you're growing up? You know that one friend who's just always there? Right? And then you have a family fight you know, that like one friend who's just like always there. Right. And then you have like a family fight or something like that in front of them. And your mom's like, Oh, I'm so sorry, dear to them. And it's like,

they're like, I'm here all the time. You don't have to worry about me. I also lashed out at Halford on that text. I was like, Halford wasn't any help. Yeah. but that's your guys' love language. I mean, that's all I got to understand. Drancer, do you think we're going to see Dakota Joshua tonight against the Islanders? I think so. I mean, Talkit was pretty specific about,

hey, we're at the point where you want to put down a date. I'm not saying for sure it's going to happen, but Thursday. You know, Thursday seems like that date. He hedged it right I I think he tried to present it in a way that wouldn't put pressure on Joshua but I don't think it's an accident like I don't think he's I don't think he was careless in sort of suggesting Thursday explicitly so I'm hopeful that we'll see Dakota Joshua tonight. I miss watching him play, to be totally honest with you, right? Like, I miss watching him hound guys down on the forecheck as an F1. Some of the cool stuff he does in tight, the chemistry he's had with Conor Garland,

whether or not he, in fact, plays with Conor Garland on his return to the lineup. And look, I mean, that's obviously a scary episode to happen to a young professional athlete in the sort of prime of their life. So for him to be better and for him to be back in the lineup is something I'm looking forward to personally. And I'm sure that's a sentiment shared by his teammates, the club itself and Canucks fans generally. So I do expect it. And I'm hopeful that that's in fact what happens. And I guess the Canucks will be recalling a bunch of guys from Abbotsford. Hey, question for you, funny question.

You're a rules guy, you know all the rules. When the Canucks send these guys down to Abbotsford for cap accrual reasons, do they have to go to Abbotsford and touch the ground there? Do they need proof of Abbotsford? No, they don't have to. So the league amended the rule a few years back. I think it was like 2018, 2019.

One of my last years with, with Florida. So I don't believe that they do have to specifically return and like report formally in order for these transactions to go through. So that's good. That's nice for the guys. And yeah, if Josh was activated, presumably they only have to recall a couple of guys, not all three. And I'll be curious to see like if Josh was back. I would guess that third line is the one least likely to shift um i'll be curious to see if joshua plays immediately uh with garland although that debrusque garland peterson line

obviously had a good game um and does lick air mackie get another look here i mean he certainly played well enough to warrant it but and that line played really well. So I wouldn't be surprised at all. So, yeah, no, I mean, I suppose we'll see. I would guess we see LeKarimaki again tonight. I would assume that if we see Joshua back, we'll see him play fourth line to start with. So those would be my sort of expectations, but I don't have inside info here.

That's just what I'm anticipating based on an educated guess of observing this team with an obsessive level of detail. Yeah, my assumption was that he would go in and Baines would come out and he'd play on the fourth line. That's right. That's my guess. Speaking of the fourth line, I'm that's my guess um speaking of the fourth line i'm reading your athletic notes article right now and one of the things one of the questions that you you pose is is nils hoaglander back in rick tockett's doghouse um explain that well the first seven games he was heavily used top six forward looked like he was primed to break through and um you know breakthrough i suppose is sort of relative in that he scored 24 goals last year and was a huge part of this team right um he shot 20 last season i don't

think anyone should have reasonably been expecting him to improve on his goal totals, but the breakout that I was expecting or hoping for from Hoaglander personally going into this season was, can he cement himself in the middle six, right? Have a more consistent role, play more ice time, level up defensively and sort of be a more trusted, you know, play driver for this club. You know, to me, that would have been a breakout even if he didn't match last season's goal totals. And through the first seven games, it really looked like we were on track for that script

to play out. And then he has that check against the Carolina Hurricanes, And since then, his minutes have been declining, right? He went from 15-ish minutes a game to always being under 12 the last eight. You know, against Calgary, he played fewer than 10 minutes. He's now playing on a fourth line with, you know, Baines and Atu Ratu. I mean, those are guys who've played AHL games and NHL games this season. All of a sudden you're seeing his production drop right yeah he had a bunch of points in the first seven

he has two assists in his last eight um you know it just feels like right now and granted the team's doing well so it's not something to lose too much sleep over or what have you, but it does sort of feel like his usage, his role, his impact is kind of trending in the wrong direction here in the early part of the season, especially given how impressive he was through the first like two and a half weeks. I want to ask, not ask,

I want to bring up one thing about Lekermacky here and it was from your recent notebook and you said it's so mind-boggling I could scarcely believe it when I noticed I could scarcely believe it when I read it it's the first Canucks draft pick to record a game played for the franchise since 2020 so that's like five sk? Because Seelov's would have been in there, right? Seelov's 2019. So he's in the McDonough. Oh, okay. Oh, I see.

Since 2020. Yeah, like that's almost five years of drafts where they haven't had a single pick play game, which is wild to me. We were talking about how things have changed so dramatically since the AHL team has moved two hours from Utica and how player development seems to have thrived. But that's wild to me that there's been that many drafts

where not a single guy has played an NHL game yet until Lekker Mackey. Yeah, no, it's been a long time. And look, it's not necessarily like an amateur talent identification issue, right? Yeah. A team traded their first round pick in 2020 and 2021. That resulted in the club having JT Miller, which is excellent, and Connor Garland, which is great, and also Oliver Ekman-Larsen, which is less great, right?

Although he's playing well in Toronto for the most part. You know, that bought-out cap hit is going to become inconvenient beginning next season. Tyler Toffoli, you know, represents bought bought out cap hit is going to become inconvenient beginning next season uh tyler toffoli you know it represents a second round pick in that mix too which was a totally fine trade uh just the error became um you know a little more significant when the club failed to extend him so you know that's that's a big part of the story uh the fact that uh the club had a change uh director of amateur scouting changes right in the right before the 2020 draft uh with judd bracket departing so there's that sort of subplot there too and then you know look it's it's something you kind of need to have unless you're operating

super aggressively right like unless you're vegas right and and vancouver is a little bit similar to vegas right i mean we talk about the western conference and how these teams stack up against one another and the contenders and i think one one thing we know about both Vegas and Vancouver, which is why it's sort of interesting that among the best teams in the West, they stand out as two teams that both don't really have a contributor in the lineup drafted after 2020, is that we are looking at these teams and we're so confident, and we should be so confident, that the team that we're talking about come April, once the playoffs begin is going to look very different right probably have added a major contributor um to

the one we were watching today right so you know i still think though when you look at the other major like vancouver's other major competition at west when you think about dallas and you see stankovin and wyatt johnson when you think about minnesota and see Stankovin and Wyatt Johnson, when you think about Minnesota and you see Marco Rossi, right? And you're probably later in the year going to see Liam Uggren. And when you look at, you know, the Jets and see Cole Perfetti running along at point per game and breaking games with his passing, you know, it matters. Like having these contributors on entry-level deals massively raises your ceiling because

they're usually pretty special players and they don't cost you a lot. And if you're going to navigate around that, if you're going to maneuver around that the way, you know, Vancouver has had to the last couple of years, you've got to be so efficient in terms of, yes, being aggressive on the trade market, but also just hitting an awful lot of like Bluger, Pew Suter, Kiefer Sherwood type singles in unrestricted free agency. And, you know, in the Canucks case, I'd argue they also hit a pretty serious double finding Dakota Joshua for 825K, right, in unrestricted free agency. But you really have to do a lot of work to make up for that homegrown talent gap

that the Canucks are sort of working through right now. They've been able to pull it off, but LeKarimaki, maybe Tom Blander after his college season, one or two of those guys sort of hitting and becoming mainstays in the Canucks lineup. It's something that's probably necessary to raise this club's ceiling to the level of one of those inner circle contending teams. Drancer, are you hearing anything about Brock Besser's health?

No, not really. The club has played it close to the vest. I checked in right after the hit um you know and no one no one will confirm that it's a head injury or brain injury um but you know i i was told sort of in the wake of that uh you could just tell that there was some concern right like yeah i mean it was a dangerous hit so we'll we'll see here um so so i got a i got a sense of concern in checking into it um and and at this point you know we i don't really understand why the team won't confirm that he's sort of in protocol um but we certainly are just hoping for the best for a guy who's been you know

through a lot dealt with a ton of bad luck injuries, and that was an awful hit. Like a really, really bad hit. Something you really don't want to see and something that absolutely can cost any player who gets hit like that games, potentially a bunch of them. So hopefully he's back soon. I'm not asking this because of the injury. I'm more asking this because of the injury. I'm more asking this because of cap space and the fact that they have to address other areas of their roster and maybe a bit of the fact of Leckermackie being up with the Canucks right now. But how confident are you that the Canucks are going to re-sign Brock Besser?

Relatively. I think I'm decently confident, assuming that he is healthy and as productive as he was prior to the injury, that he wants to stay and that the club wants to keep him. You know, I don't know, other than, you know, DeBrusque and Garland, I don't know that the club has, you know, one of, like, is Besser,

let me frame it as a question to you, Brett, like, is Besser their only real top-line caliber winger? I mean, I might consider putting Garland up there the way he's playing. I would too, but that's kind of a niche opinion in terms of how the league views it. You know? For me, Garland obviously makes a top- impact and is like a consistent 50 point guy. But if we're talking about, you know, one of those top line wingers holds up in a matchup role, right? Sort of has that like 30 goal. I know he's only hit 30 goals once.

But if you sort of prorated, he's like a 30 goal per 82 game guy always over 60 points right um those that's like those are benchmarks he'll like always hit like garland's a 55-ish point guy yeah or has been um he's playing power play one this year but hasn't really been a fixture in that spot mancouver uh jake debrusk you know has he i don't think he's hit 50 points. Like, I feel like he's a 50-point-ish guy. I don't know that he's had a 60-point season. So, you know, I think there's an argument to be made that Besser's, this team's, you know, only established top of the lineup, 60-point, consistent 60-point winger.

How do you not keep that guy? You need that guy, especially given that he's got chemistry with both Miller and Patterson right especially given his age and sort of what he's meant to this franchise his ability to play at the net front on the power place an area where he's actually become quietly like elite right not not just as a screener and as a deflections guy but as a down low playmaker I mean I mean, I think the answer is yes because I think everyone has an interest in maintaining Besser as a big part of this group.

So I would expect it to happen narrowly. It's not going to be easy to do. The club does have a lot of needs, but the cap is also going up and they're relatively well-positioned with some expiring deals to make it all fit. So, yeah, I mean, I do expect that to get done at some point, even though it's in the back of my mind at the moment, while Besser recovers from the Genoa hit and its impact.

Yeah, that was another question I was going to ask you. Like, you know, for so long in Vancouver, we had these concerns about the salary cap, and rightly so. How do you consider the Canucks right now, cap-wise? Are they in a good spot, a bad spot, and a fine spot? I think they're in a really healthy spot, to be totally honest with you. It's not going to be simple to navigate. For example, the Oliver Ekman-Larsen buyout goes from, what, $2-ish million this season to nearly $5 for the next couple years.

It's going to be an annoyance for four years. And sort of the way that I think about it going into this upcoming summer is the cap's going to go up a certain amount, potentially a significant amount, right? And then that's almost not going to benefit the Canucks nearly as much as their opponents because of the growth to Ekman-Larsen's bought-out cap hit plus the McKay of retained salary transaction. So at the very least, like like this summer as the cap increases it's going to

be less beneficial to Vancouver than it will be to their opponents so relatively speaking they're going to lose some ground but I think when you consider where this team was right during that flat cap era and then you consider how much more expensive their core group has become, like even just year over year, right? One of the biggest changes between this roster and last year's roster is Pedersen goes from 7.3 to 11.6 and Philip Peronik goes from 4.4 to 7.25. And that's huge, right? Like, that's an extra star-level player, cap-wise, that's just being sunk into maintaining what this team had.

And yet, you know, this club's depth is, especially up front, is better, right? Like, it's better than it was last season. Does the defense look a little bit worse on paper? Sure. It's also a lot less expensive, given that, like, Myers' cap hit diminished. And Ian Cole departed. And the club didn't extend Nikita Zdorov. And those are hard choices you have to make when your core group gets more expensive.

So I think this club did a really good job, this management group did a really good job over the course of the summer sort of filling in the gaps as their core got more pricier and and that's a really tricky thing to do now now they're set up where having done the tucker pullman deal as well they're accruing calf space they're they're out of lti they're they're doing a lot of things that i see as a sign of, like, organizational managerial health that's going to give this club a little bit more flexibility come the deadline and allow them to add. Where they are going to bump into some problems, some, because the cap is going to go up and we are entering this new world a little bit in terms of, at least in the short term,

reasonable expectation of year-over over year cap growth means that sort of how you have to manage it changes just a little bit right like you don't have to be as um like dogmatic frankly about waiting every signing with the same level of like maniacal annoying um sort of cost benefit analysis that that's the world we lived in a little bit while ago where it was like should this team sign this good player and it's like no that would be irresponsible right we're kind of more in a place where the cap is navigable where you can have some inefficiencies um on items. I do think that that's going to be the case as we get into some predictable cap growth. But of course, the cap doesn't always go up. Even when the best laid plan suggests that it will, it's always a little trickier, a little more dangerous than that, given how cap growth is tied to real world economics. So you don't take that cap growth

necessarily to the bank. But I do think there's a reasonable expectation in the short term that the cap will go up. And for the Canucks, sort of my only concern is their relative buying power versus the rest of the league as a result of the Oliver Ekman-Larsen buyout is going to sort of hit like a two-year period where Vancouver's opponents are going to be able to outspend them because Vancouver's got five and a half ish million in dead money on the books as, as a result of, you know, the mistakes of a previous regime.

Okay. In light of what you said, even though we're up against it for time, I do got to ask about Pittsburgh defenseman, Marcus Pettersson. You guys wrote about him in the athletic. He has been mentioned as to be potentially available for trade. He does have a history with rutherford and alvin dating back to their time in pittsburgh vancouver obviously has a need on defense is there a fit there marcus petterson

vancouver yeah i mean i i think it's a little bit of an awkward fit in that you're talking about a top four left-handed defenseman whose impact is a little bit more offensive than defensive so i struggle to imagine that he'd be able to like you know you come in play with myers push susie to the third pair you play susie with day harney or or uh branstrom and boom there you go you've upgraded both your top and your third or second and your third pair um it sounds nice but petterson's impact even though he's viewed as more of a defensive defenseman tends to be more offensive tends to be best utilized when paired with like a high-end puck mover the way he has for most of his tenure in Pittsburgh where he's played a lot with

Letang and Carlson especially over the past two years so the fit's not perfect uh but the player is is very very good he's he's big i do think he could add some puck moving uh to this lineup he's a he's a sort of deceptively creative uh passer in the offensive zone he actually has the same uh primary assist rate as quinn hughes across the last five years love to see that from uh from more of a stay-at-home type defenseman so. It's an interesting fit, but it's not a perfect fit. Given the cost associated with getting him,

is that what you want to do, or are you willing to splurge and maybe even pay a little bit more if necessary to land that right-handed defender that I think would make more sense with this current group? That's sort of the big question that we have there as we examined it in our latest Canucks notebook at the athletic.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.