Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 11/18/24

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they talk this weekend's mixed results for the Canucks with NHL.com & In Goal Magazine's Kevin Woodley, plus the boys tell us what they learned. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Marches to a force break at the slot, back to Marches to a left wing, Stamko shoots, he scores! Again, picks the top right corner. Pretty good presentation, it was good. We just didn't do the game plan, a couple guys ran around. Can't do that.

Cannot coach with him. Can't do it. Steps up, gonna run! 10, 5, Gino! Touchdown! Seahawks! Holy catfish! Good morning, Maycovers. 6-0-1 on a Monday.

Happy Monday, everybody. It is Alfred and his bruv. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintex Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning.

Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Alfred and bruv of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service,

or parts. We are in Hour 1 of the program. Hour 1 is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler. Well, they pay the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. metal recycling they recycle you get paid visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver we are

coming to you live from the Kintec studio Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star google reviews soar feet what are you waiting for Kintec my word we have a lot to get into on this show so much in fact that we only have two guests. That's right. Jess Mike Tanier, our NFL insider from the two deep zone sub stack. He's at seven. And then Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and In Goal Magazine. He's going to join us at eight. Otherwise, Jason, it's all on me and you today, bud. That's good because a lot of stuff happened.

Some good, some bad, but a lot of stuff happened. So without further ado, Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened?

You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. It is not very often that we get to come in here and talk about a Saturday-Sunday back-to-back with a Sunday game at 7 o'clock at night.

Late one last night. The Canucks won on Saturday. We'll put that one on the back burner for now. 4-1 victory over the Chicago Blackhawks and Conor Bedard. And we will have a Conor Bedard conversation later. But it was last night against the Nashville Predators that has left us with the most talking points. Steve Stamkos scored not once but twice on the power play.

Nashville Predators 5-3 over the Vancouver Canucks late Sunday night at Rogers Arena. Yeah, there's something off about the Canucks right now. I don't know if it's a personnel thing and you have to look at probably the blue line first or if they've lost a bit of the identity they built last season or maybe it's just a very predictable regression from last season's PDO bender that they went on, especially at the start of the season. But last night against Nashville, it was yet another slow start,

failing to get even a shot on goal until about, what, halfway through the first period. They did find their game eventually, but not before they gave up the first goal yet again. The Canucks actually built themselves a one-goal lead in the second when Elias Pettersson finally, finally hammered home a one-timer on the power play. But the Preds wouldas Pettersson finally, finally hammered home a one-timer on the power play, but the Preds would score the next three goals,

two of them by Stephen Stamkos on the power play. The key play of the game probably came late in the second period with the score tied at two. That's when Kiefer Sherwood found himself on a clear-cut breakaway against his old team, only to completely fan on his shot. I don't mean to laugh. He pulled a Conor Bedard on a clear-cut breakaway against his old team, only to completely fan on his shot. I don't mean to laugh. He pulled a Conor Bedard on a breakaway.

I don't mean to laugh, but it was, you know, he could have had the Yackety Sax playing in the background when he whiffed on that. It sent back the Preds the other way a couple seconds later. A couple of nice little Preds passes later, Roman Yossi blasted a one-timer past Lankanen. Now, the Canucks did make it interesting late in the third when Sherwood made good on his blunder with his fourth goal of the season. That made the score 4-3, but that was as close as the Canucks would come. The Preds added an empty netter and that was it with the loss. The Canucks fell to 3-4-3 at Rogers Arena, a far cry from last

season when they had one of the best home records in the league. And the bad news is there's one more home game remaining on this homestand, Tuesday against a pretty good Rangers team that just shut out the Kraken in Seattle. So I tweeted after the game, I'm getting worried about the Canucks. It was a simple tweet. I saw that. I'm getting worried about the Canucks. Now, a simple tweet. I saw that. I'm getting worried about the Canucks. Now, predictably, some people were like, what? You weren't worried nine or ten games ago? Other people went the other way and said, come on, man.

They got a bunch of injuries. It's still early. You can't be getting worried about the team. People disagreed. Some people agreed. Whatever. Here's why I'm worried about the Canucks. It seems to me right now that there are a bunch of little fires burning everywhere. And at the beginning of last season, you remember pretty much everything

was going right. Right now, not everything is going right. You take your pick on what you want to worry about. The defense, just the current construction of the defense, they've got a few injuries on defense too, but it's not playing well. You know, I think we can talk about the fact that they can't seem to get Elias Pedersen and JT Miller playing well together at the same time. You know, the injuries part, you can look at it in two ways.

You can look at it, well, they've got some injuries and once those guys back they'll once those guys are back they'll be okay but when are they going to be back i don't know you know and how are they going to be when they are back we all know that brock besters got a concussion how's that going to affect his play we all know what thatcher demko's been through what's he going to look like when he's back? You know, again, I would just say there seem to be little fires burning everywhere.

And the team, to me at least, just looks a bit ragged right now. That's fair. They look ragged. Let's get into what happened with JT Miller last night okay so talking about little fires burning and this one might not even be considered a little fire uh many people noted including Ray Ferraro on the broadcast last night that in the third period of a game in which the Canucks were trying to mount a comeback JT Miller was bolted to the bench I believe he took just two shifts in the third period and was sitting among the defensemen.

Ferraro pointed it out on the broadcast. Rick Talkett was asked about it post-game. Very abrupt clips to give you a sense of how short Rick Talkett was. So we've got the questions and the answer. The first... Terse. Thank you. First was a question from our very own Brendan Batchelor

asking, what was the deal with JT Miller not playing in the third? Here's the cue. Here's the A from last night's game. 5-3 loss to the Preds at Rogers Arena. JT didn't play much in the third. What can you say about that? Just one of the guys that I thought couldn't get us back in the game. And that was that.

Then our very own Ian McIntyre astutely decided to pick up on the most obvious line of questioning. Is whatever was bothering JT Miller earlier and throughout this season an injury, perhaps related to why

he wasn't playing in the third? Again, here's the question. Here's the answer. Take a listen. And back to one of those key guys. We know that JT has dealt with something since the preseason.

Is that a factor in his ice time tonight? No. Okay. Okay, thanks, Rick. Back to one of those key guys. We know that JT has dealt with something since the preseason. Is that a factor in his ice time tonight? No. Okay. Okay, thanks, Rick. So, if you want to, and we're not even interpreting or parsing or reading between the lines here. JT Miller was parked in the third period yesterday because Rick Tockett said that there were other guys

that gave him a better chance to win that hockey game. And I will say this before we get into the analysis, Rick Talkett was not wrong because the Canucks' best period yesterday was the third period. They limited Nashville to, what, two shots on goal? I think one was at an empty net. Yeah, and some of that was score effects, right? Yeah, but they had to push. The Preds had a two-goal lead, but yeah. And they scored. Well, I hope they did push. nashville isn't very good the

connects are playing at home they should be pushing uh in that period with jt miller i'm seeing a lot of stuff that we saw um you know a few years ago from jt miller when he's just not moving his feet sometimes and it doesn't look like he's got the legs there have been a two there have been a couple penalty kills i've noticed just in the last little while including last look like he's got the legs. There have been a couple penalty kills I've noticed just in the last little while, including last night, where he's just not moving out there. That's right. And he looks either gassed or he looks like he's worried

about everyone else's job and not doing his. And, you know, there were some seam passes that got through last night through the Canucks PK, and there weren't even six in the lane. And the first Stamkos goal was, yeah, it was a nice shot by Stamkos, but Tyler Myers didn't get in a shooting lane. He was way off. And then the second one, which was the nice cross-scene pass to Stamkos,

and he fired it home. It was up to really JT and Petey to block the passing lane, and they didn't even come close. They didn't even come close, and they both, frankly, and Petey looked frustrated at JT. Yeah, if you want to look at a ghastly box score following a game, go to NHL.com and look at JT Miller's

contributions last night. It is goose eggs across the board. No goals, no assists, no points, no blocks, no hits, no shots. Well, that specific shift where Petey looked mad at JT, JT was like barking at him, giving him orders for positioning.

But the problem is Miller was also out of position. Because he wasn't moving. It's complete chaos. You're looking at him and you're like, are you? Why are you telling him to go there? You do your thing. Have you played the entire game? You look tired right now.

So is it an injury or is that a factor in it? Or I don't know. I don't know. Like I said, I would actually like to go around with you guys right now. Are you worried about the Canucks? The whole thing where I'm talking about, there seem to be little fires burning everywhere. And I know we always come back to Jim Rutherford's,

if everything goes right, we're a playoff team. Well, pretty much everything did go right for the Canucks last season. Not everything, but a lot of things went right. This season, it just seems different. There's injuries to key guys like Brock Besser and Thatcher Demko, obviously. The defense has not been good, and it just doesn't seem right right now. I don't want to have a cop-out answer to this, but I have questions about the team.

I'm not at the level of raising red flags, and I'm deeply concerned about the team. I didn't say I was deeply concerned. I basically said I'm starting to get a little bit worried about the Canucks. I have questions. That's it. Why does it have to be so, and I'm not talking about you, but I say I'm getting worried about the Canucks.

It doesn't mean like I'm cowering under a table. He's cowering under a table right now. And being like, oh, there's going to be another death march. I'm just looking at this team right now, and not everything seems right. Not everything does seem right. I think it's a fair assessment. They've still got a 6-18 points percentage through 17 games.

Even as bad as the last 10 games have been, you would say, eye test-wise, they're 5-4 and 1 through it. They've had a very easy schedule. They absolutely have. They've had a very easy schedule. The quality of competition has not been there and in the good teams, for the most part,

they have not played well against. My biggest concern right now is that they got handed this homestand against a bunch of relatively easy opponents, save the teams that were going to bookend it. The story of this homestand was going to be you have a tough team at the beginning in Edmonton and you have a tough team in the end at the Rangers. But if you can make up the mushy middle

and take all those points or take the majority of those points, it's a good homestand. Well, they bottled it against the Islanders. They bottled it against Nashville. I'll remind you, they allowed 10 goals to both of those teams, and the Islanders and the Predators are not offensive juggernauts

by any stretch. I think that's one of the highest, if not the highest scoring game for the Nashville Predators this year. There was some stat about their goals against at home, and it's one of, if not the highest in the league. It's atrocious. It's egregiously high. And part of it has to do with the fact

that they gave up six to Calgary, six to New Jersey, and seven to Edmonton. But there's been other games where they've given up four and five. That's part of the atrociousness. Those games, I mean, you're talking about it. I mean, I think the worst home loss was against the New York Islanders. But, hey, I've got time for other arguments

because there were other terrible losses at home. So many candidates, really. I don't know how you – I actually don't know unless you're just – I never get worried and that's not how the way I am you know I don't know how you can't be just a little bit worried about about this this this team right now well I said before the season started I'm worried about the I said numerous times I'm worried about the Canucks defensive depth I am still worried about the Canucks defensive depth it is very worrisome after when Hughes and Hirona aren't on the ice tire fire it's nuts it's's just really, really not good.

They've got to figure something out fast. That second pair, Soucy and Myers, they're playing too many minutes, man, in the shows. It's just a lot of mistakes. There's been a lot of goals that go in, and, you know, Soucy, when the puck finally goes in, Soucy's spinning around like a top, and Myers looks confused, too. I mean, it's that pair.

Maybe just split the pair up or something. I don't know. Try something. There's just not great options to split too. I mean, it's that pair. Maybe just split the pair up or something. I don't know. Try something. There's just not great options to split them. I know. You know, that's the problem. You know, there's so much. If you look up front with the Canucks,

there's so much versatility up there, and there are so many different combinations that you can try. With the Canucks' defense, I don't know. You're kind of stuck. I mean, maybe when Forward's back, you could put Branstrom and Forward as the second pair and then have Soucy and Myers play last minutes. But then you run into the same problem because you probably don't want Branstrom and Forbert playing too many minutes. Branstrom, I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm about Branstrom.

He's not a second pair defenseman. No, he's not. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like when Derek Pouliot was a second pair defenseman. He's a third pair guy. Leave him as a third pair guy. I realize people want to bump him up into the lineup and play him more minutes, but he's not perfect. And I think if we want to talk about the Saturday game, they had Branstrom and Juleson together.

Foligno got body position on Brandstrom on their only goal and just shoved him aside. And then Foligno was able to get a pass to, I can't remember who the goal scorer was. McHale. McHale, that's right. How could I forget? And I don't know what Juleson was doing around, he was pulling a Susie.

Brandstrom did redeem himself though. He started to play a lot better after that. Absolutely. He's been good offensively. He's got six points in 14 games. It's good. You don't want to play him in the top four. You don't want to give him the heavy minutes. He can't handle them.

He cannot handle them. You don't want to do that to Suzy and Myers either, though. I don't. Hey, I think that. We get two more defensemen. So as we break down the concerns with the team right now, on the blue line, it's becoming pretty apparent that there's a little bit of buyer's remorse with DeJarne. Yeah.

Yeah. I think four boards just been unavailable, so he hasn't been able to. He's been fine when he's played. He just hasn't been able to. He's been fine when he's played. He just hasn't played very much. They, I think that they were very hopeful and maybe naively optimistically so that they were going to be able to survive this first little bit with the defense group that they came into the season with. And then on top of that, they did get found money with Branstrom.

Say what you will about where he's playing in the lineup. But that's where he should be playing. That's where he should be playing. Yeah. Outside of that, it's a problem, the amount of goals that they've conceded this year. Now, the weird part that I'm trying to wrap my head around is that they haven't done it on the road. They're 6-1-0 on the road. If they didn't have such a good road record so far, this team would be in serious, multiple red flags raised.

This is going to be a problem. If you want to be glass half full and optimistic about this, you can say that despite the fact that they played, quite frankly, at times poorly this season, and I don't mean like average or mediocre, but straight up poorly. They've had some real stinkers. They are still got their heads well above water

in terms of points taken from the games. Now, is part of that, as Jason pointed out, from a soft schedule? Yep, 100%. Could all of this change in a hurry when they run the gauntlet and get some very good teams yep 100 and do they start are when you talk about the little mini fires that are burning everywhere um i kind of look at it and say the fires aren't even connected like when talk it speaks about being disconnected i still feel like this team is so disconnected in a variety of ways i still think that there's a very elongated adjustment period for a few new guys including and i do wonder when we're going to

start to have more serious conversations about like what's the brusque doing on a regular basis i think the brusque is playing reasonably regular basis i think the brusque is playing reasonably well actually i think the production needs to be there for what he's being paid and what he's being um shouldered upon responsibility wise um i think we're gonna have to be patient with dakota joshua that's that's a fair point uh that's tough you know i talk at reunited uh josh Bluger, and Garland, and I don't think they had much last night. I think we were all hoping that Dak would provide a bit of a,

kind of a jolt to the team, and it hasn't happened. He came back in the Islanders game, right? That was a disastrous performance. We could talk a little bit about Saturday. back in the Islanders game, right? That was a disastrous performance. We could talk a little bit about Saturday. The Canucks beat the Blackhawks in soccer parlance. It was a bit of a dour affair, but a win is a win, and credit the Canucks for getting it done.

It was not a good hockey game. It was good for RDC loves, though. It's great. I think that was the real positive that you would draw from that game. But I have to be honest, I wasn't actually thinking about anyone on the Canucks after that game. I was thinking about Conor Bedard and what he is thinking these days. He is really struggling to score, and he's out there on a line with journeyman Ryan Donato and Philip Kurashev. Listen, I wanted the Canucks to win.

I always want the Canucks to win, but I felt bad for Bedard after he gave away the puck that led to Miller's empty netter. That was not the way he envisioned his first game in Vancouver. I'm sure his parents were there. He had a lot of friends and family there. He was a huge Canucks fan growing up. Now, this is sometimes what happens when you get a lot of hype

and you go into the league and you're like, wow, this is harder than I thought it would. One of the stars of the game last night, Stephen Stamkos, I remember there was a lot of hype around him and it did not go well for him early in Tampa Bay. Bedard is still only 19 years old.

He's the same draft class as Lekermacky, right? Yep. And he did win Rookie of the Year last season, but the hype was so crazy for him. It was higher than the Stamkos hype. It was ridiculous, frankly. And a lot of that was because he was so prolific a scorer in junior and he was unbelievable at the world juniors

that it feels like he's underperforming right now because of the hype. I was actually thinking it's crazy that Chicago has two highly touted number one picks right now. And it really hasn't been easy for Caleb Williams either. Crazy ending to Bears-Packers last night with that blocked field goal. Caleb Williams probably deserved better in that game. It's actually tough times for Chicago sports as a whole right now. Who's the best team they got right now?

The Cubs? Probably. And they're, like, mediocre. The White Sox were putrid, and the Bulls aren't very good. The Bulls are very bad. The Bulls aren't very good either. Tough times for Chicago sports. At any rate, getting back to Bedard, what were you feeling after the game?

If the game Sunday didn't happen, if the national game didn't happen, this would have been probably leading the show. I think this would have gotten more play because not only were bradard struggles uh front and center but when you talk about the hype machine the hype machine is quite frankly how we the media and how all of the outlets talk about players and when conor bradar broke into the national hockey league i remember it also was coinciding with ESPN and TNT being fully immersed in the National Hockey League. And playbook coverage of sports is who's going to be the next young, bright, shining star and face of the league. And Conor Bernard was it.

Conor Bernard was on Pat McAfee. Conor Bernard was doing interviews with national broadcasters. It was Conor Bernard, Conor Bernard. He was the next Mc… Theor Bernard. He was the next, the hype machine had him as the next McDavid going to an original six big American market in Chicago. And then in his first year, he sort of delivered,

even though he was hurt. He missed a lot of time. He scored a lot of points and he won rookie of the year. It is going so poorly for him right now. His goal is drought is extended to nine games. Now he hadn't have a point in three. He comes back to Vancouver. He gets two shot attempts, one on goal. For him right now. His goalless drought has extended to nine games now. He doesn't have a point in three. He comes back to Vancouver.

He gets two shot attempts. One on goal. Just 16-48 of ice time. And then the end of the game happens. He has the giveaway to JT Miller. When he's trying to dump the puck in. And the camera pans to Conor Bedard on the bench. And his head is hung so low.

And I think part of it was probably the kid's recognition that the camera, he's like the camera's on me right now, the camera's on me. And his head was just hanging, hanging low. So after the game, you had Luke Gazdik and Elliot Friedman and Paul Bissonette on the panel talking about the struggles that Bedard is having. And they're talking about the real on ice stuff about he's getting murdered in the face off dot.

It's not happening for him. He's losing draws like crazy. Do you need to bounce him out to the wing? And then Freed steps forward and kind of takes it to that next level and talks about, well, hey, bigger picture here. Conor Bedard's being tasked with a lot. He's trying to drag a franchise that's down bad down low and down bad trying to drag him out of the dregs of the national hockey league and that's

not an easy thing to do i want to play this audio because i think it's pertinent uh elliot freeman on how hard it is when you hit rock bottom in the nhl to get out of rock bottom here it is you know i i watch him and i see that look on his face. And the one thing we're reminded in this league, you look at Ottawa, you look at Detroit, you look at Buffalo, you look at what Anaheim's going through. You look at San Jose, you look at these guys now in Chicago.

If you go to the bottom in this league, it is hard to pull yourself out. I don't know if there's another sport where it's as hard to rebuild right now as it is in the NHL. I spent a lot of time thinking about this this week. In the NBA, you get the right player, you can change your fortunes immediately. The NFL, you get the right quarterback, you can change your fortunes pretty quickly. But in hockey right now, these teams like Still, Detroit, Buffalo,

Ottawa, you wait for them to put five wins together and they three or four and they tantalize you. It is so hard in this league at rock bottom. Tonight on Rock Bottom. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. 802 on a Monday.

Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts.

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Sorfy, what are you waiting for? Kintec, to the phone lines we go. Here's a presentation of White Rock Hyundai. Kevin Woodley from InGoal Magazine and NHL.com joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Ke kev how are you i'm i'm better than the vancouver canucks this morning so that's i'm looking on bright sides here guys what were your big takeaways from the game yesterday there's no shortage of them uh we

spent a lot of time talking about the jt miller ice time decision in the third period talked a little bit about kevin lankanen and his glove. Don't know if they figured him out or not yet. What was your big takeaway, Kev? Just, honestly, bigger picture, just the inability to sort of, and maybe it's the back-to-back nature, but the inability to sort of build any momentum and sort of sustain the levels that we saw them have early last season, especially. And again, especially in the first goal,

I've talked about this since the beginning. It got, the first eight games it was terrible. It got better for four or five and it's kind of back to being off and on terrible. Net front defending is not good again. So, you know, things like the PK getting picked apart, we haven't seen that very often, so you don't worry too much about it.

But for whatever reason, this team obviously isn't where they were last year. And forget for whatever reason. Most of it just starts with defending. It starts with details in terms of being in the right places defensively. And it starts, frankly, at times with just effort. The separation between forwards and defensemen is inconsistent. They don't play as a five-man unit on a steady basis. There are glimpses.

When they do, it looks a lot like last year. But, you know, hemming other teams in the offensive end, forechecking them, wearing them down, we just haven't seen enough of that. It's, I suppose, human nature when you have success to think things are going to be a little bit easier. And we're certainly not back to the old days where the efforts just were terrible on a regular basis.

But they haven't been to the level they were last year. And the season's no longer young. That inability to sort of find that level and stay at that level for a significant stretch. And don't ignore the fact that a lot of the victories they do have are against either meh teams or, frankly, tired teams. Like, Calgary was playing 5-8 in five different cities.

Everyone got excited about the Kings win. Well, they're a West Coast team coming off an East Coast swing. First game back's always a nightmare. So, you know, like the Carolina game, they got a point out of it. Why? Because Kocetkov was terrible. Two goals that should never go in. So, you know, I don't think there's any panic, but there are some concerning elements around this team. They keep telling us they're going to clean them up. They do for a game and then the next game they reappear and that's the part that jumps out to me

is the inability to sort of sustain anything. Does it seem like the Canucks are kind of stuck with their defensive pairs in that they don't want to break up Hughes and Hronik because that pair is great together and I don't know if Hronik can carry a pair by himself anyway. And I'm sure they would love to be able to break up Soucy and Myers, especially at this point.

But it's just awkward. Like, what are you going to put Soucy and Brandstrom together? Are you going to put Brandstrom and Myers together? Is that going to be your second pair? It just seems like they don't have a lot of options with the back end. Yeah, it's kind of hard to see where it fits, right? At what point do we see Brandstrom

on the right side? We've heard he plays there or has played there in the past quite a bit. And who's it at the expense of? I mean, Derek Forbert not being in the lineup, although when you signed him, you had to know that the injury side of things, obviously no way to know the personal side in that absence,

but the injury side of things has been a factor for him regularly. So it's not like you could count on him for 82. It just, you know, on the PK, there's times where it feels like they're missing Cole and yet up till last night, you know, it was pretty good. I'm with you. It's really easy to say it's not working, fix it, do something different, and yet it's also really hard to sort of see how else you fit these pieces together to make them better than the sum of their parts.

So I don't pretend to have those answers, to make them better than the sum of their parts. So I don't pretend to have those answers, and yet we saw last night that finally Rick Tockett and Adam Foote running the defense got tired of the status quo and started to change things up a little bit. I mean, we heard a lot from management at least about trying to start the season and see if they could get a second pairing anchored by Philip Peronic and have Quinn Hughes play with somebody else.

And yet that experiment didn't last very long. Hughes made it clear it wasn't his preference, and here we are again. So I don't see a lot of other fits necessarily that would fix this, but clearly they can't keep going the way they're going. And listen, it's not always just on the defensemen. Like one of the reasons they were clean out of their end last year is when the defensemen got the puck, they looked up in guys where they were supposed to be.

One of the reasons they protect the net front so well is they had help. It wasn't usually just two guys and guys were where they were supposed to be. And talking to some of the guys from last year over this past week while they've been in town, just sort of off to the side without a recorder, about the way that defending has broken down this year, a lot of it is just about guys being outside the system, at times chasing a little bit,

at times just being uncertain within the system, where they're supposed to be and that will take time there seems to be a faith that it will come but right now it's just not there and and i think it is really easy to pick on the defenders and i'm not letting them off the hook uh but quite often they're not alone in that um defending is not done by defenseman alone you've heard me talk a lot about the importance of a five-man unit. And as I started this off with, they're not always on the same page. They're not on the same page often enough as a five-man unit.

Frankly, at both ends of the rink a lot of the time. What did you make of JT Miller getting benched in the third? Yeah, I mean, he's missing Brock Besser. I haven't had a chance to run these numbers but as as pedersen heats up and miller obviously without besser but as miller's line sort of levels down i i feel anecdotally like i sure see queen the queen hughes defense pairing out with the pedersen line a lot more and you know i do wonder how much that affects thing because i remember earlier when pedersen was struggling i i you know i noticed that he wasn't out as much with the Hughes pairing and that sort of goes to your last question

you know what do they do when Quinn Hughes and Philip Peronic aren't on the ice I think without wanting to put any words in his mouth that the trust and the relationship between this coach and that player is such that he's a guy he probably feels comfortable singling out because JT would probably single himself out and Talkett praised him just what was it a week ago that he praised him after a really tough game because he knew that JT would know and then he wouldn't have to say anything and that you know he could count on him to sort of correct it and have a good game the next night out. And so when you have that, maybe it's easier because we didn't see this degree, this step with Patterson earlier in the season.

Maybe it's easier to do this to a guy and set an example for the group that no one's above not playing the way we're supposed to play with a guy you have that type of relationship with. Respect to Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and InGoal Magazine here on the Halford & Ruff Show on Sportsnet 650. Kev, it is a presentation of White Rock Hyundai. Visit the showroom on King George and White Rock or whiterockhyundai.com.

Kev, what have you seen or not seen from Kevin Lankanen lately? Yeah, you know, especially Arterur was as good as he needed to be against the Chicago team, another team that can't score coming in here, although the Predators couldn't either. That's the first time in their past six road games they've gotten above two. A guy who's maybe played a little too much at times,

but there are other games in this little stretch where I don't think fatigue's been an issue. For sure, when you become a number one or play number one minutes, teams start to build a little bit more of a scouting report. And I talked earlier in the season about how exceptional his blocker side numbers were. And the glove was a little more around league average.

And as teams build the book on you, and certainly the Predators would have that book, having had him on their team for the past couple of years, so maybe not a coincidence where they targeted. But the more you play, the more teams sort of start to have a pre-scout. And so for all the fantastic saves on that blocker side, you're starting to see teams maybe go to the glove a little more. And it's not like his glove numbers are terrible.

They're just around league average, and his blocker side is exceptional. Even last night, Forsberg absolutely got into one that, frankly, I thought would be a goal for sure, and Lankanen made a fantastic blocker save. He's a really, really strong high blocker. The other part that he's been sort of victim of, and this is in part against not so much style as, as the way he has to play at his size and combined with their inability to

defend the net front, like they did last year is a vulnerability and sort of net front scrambles. If you can get a guy off to the sides, you know, a little more vulnerable on his flanks than a Thatcher Demko would be because he's not able to sort of play those things back further on his goal line, or even in Demko's case at times,

down on the goal line and just bumping back and forth from post to post. He needs to be a little further out. And so if those pucks spill to the flanks and there's nobody there to tie up a stick, and again, that's been a big issue for this team early this season, it's a bigger distance he has to travel that's

just that's just the geometry and so we've seen a lot of sort of tap-ins leaking off to the side or where he's only able to get a pad across and if that player has time and space to elevate it's going in so i think that is more about the defending in front of him but certainly uh you know a bigger goalie of demko stature and to a lesser degree maybe our church because i don't think he's bigger, but he plays a little closer to his goal line in some of those situations. Might have a little more insulation

on those type of attempts than Lankan does. I mean, he's so fast. He's not necessarily powerful side to side, but he's just so quick. But when those pucks are getting spilled over there and there's nobody taking care of it, there's just too much distance, no matter how fast you are.

So the New York Rangers are in town tomorrow and they're coming off a 2-0 shutout win over the Seattle Kraken. Jonathan Quick was in goal for the Rangers. Get a load of this save percentage for Jonathan Quick. Granted, this is only in five games, but 970. 970 for Jonathan Quick. Why even pay Shusterkin?

And Shusterkin is at 914, which, you know, in today's NHL is incredibly good. Do you expect, is there a chance, do you think, that the Rangers would go back to Jonathan Quick, or do you think we'll see Shesterkin tomorrow night? No, no, I think you'll see Shesterkin. Because I think part of what you're getting out of Jonathan Quick is the fact that he's had a real renaissance there.

And I'm quite happy to say that this is one I got wrong. Because the year they brought him in, his numbers were underwater in both LA and Vegas. We saw Vegas win a cup and he was never even an option for them. And that's with Sean Burke, who teaches very much the same philosophies of Benoit Allaire with the New York Rangers. And so when they signed him in New York, coming off a year where Jaroslav Halak had given them a ton of great starts in the second, you know, second two-thirds of the season after a bit of a slow start, I thought that would cost them because Halak had won them a lot of games and Quick looked cooked.

And yet here he is in a lesser role, playing less. He's playing a little funny, right? Like he's playing a little deeper. He's always been an aggressive goalie, but he's playing more controlled positionally. And it's funny, I had that conversation with UC Sorrows yesterday after the morning skate and with Dustin Wolf when they were in town. Like small goalies, everybody assumes they got to get way out there.

But these guys are all having success playing deeper than some of their larger counterparts, which is interesting to note. So I just think with Jonathan Quick and some of the style adjustments, you're still getting the best out of him when you're not overworking him because he's able to play with that explosiveness within a more contained environment because he's not worn out by playing too much. Should be noted, he's also got one of the highest,

as good as those numbers are, and I am taking nothing away from them. He's the top backup in the league. His adjusted save percentage is number one in the NHL right now, but his expected save percentage, in other words, the environment he's playing behind, is also number one in the NHL right now in terms of it being the easiest. Whether it's the starts they're picking, and Seattle hasn't been a great offensive team.

They're better this year overall, but it's not about how they're filling up the net. So whether it's them picking their starts or that team really playing for him, and he's a very popular teammate, he has had great defensive efforts in front of him early this season. As a matter of fact, his expected save percentage

compared to Igor Shcherkin, who's obviously getting some of the tougher minutes, is 30 points higher. Do you think I've got two questions here about the Canucks goaltending do you think they go back to seal offs against the Rangers? Yeah that's a really good question and I don't have the answer. I kind of doubt it because of the way they've gone of late, but maybe based on the results of the last two. You know, like I said, it feels like they may be like, I think they, I think in some ways they mishandled way too strong a word because the results weren't there and I get it

it's a results business and they're trying to get some traction on their season but I don't think it was good for Shelovs to sit as long as he did thankfully they did get him that start in the American Hockey League but you're losing him a little bit here and so this is an opportunity if you want to reward the performance

against Chicago and the way he sort of seemed to gain momentum as that game went on. Now, again, asterisk, the Blackhawks can't score, but if you want to reward that and give Lankan a nice extended break here to get his feet back under him, this is a great time to do it. So that said, I probably would have had the starts reversed on the weekend. I get that Lankanen probably wanted to play against his former team, although we told

reporters last night afterwards he didn't really care. But given the success Seeloff's had against Nashville, and given the fact that Chicago's a former team that Lankanen's already beat once, I guess you have the extra day off by

starting him on Sunday, but I would have considered a flip-flop there, just knowing what the Predators would have known on a pre-scout and the way they seemed to go to work on that against Lincoln last night. So nobody asked me, and I'm not sure the way they're going to go. Today is November 18th. Thatcher Demko, when? When, Gev, when? Don't know, can't tell you. Like i said this the only thing i haven't seen

in practice and again this doesn't mean he's not doing it some of the goalie skates happened before were allowed in the building uh and i had a i had a meeting that prevented me from being there at ubc on friday uh when evidently with lincoln getting the day off he did the whole practice but the only thing i haven't seen with my own eyes is what they call a reverse track, what most guys call a double seal. And that's when the play goes below the goal line behind the net and the goalie puts one skate on each post.

Other than that, when I've been there, I've seen him do pretty much everything a starting goaltender has to do. And I don't see any hesitation in it. So unless that move hasn't happened and it's the last piece they're looking to put in place, I don't know what the holdup is. Probably, you know, only they know, right? It'll be the comfort level and how he's feeling

and is he getting enough practices amidst the busy schedule here where there haven't been many to sort of ramp up to game speed and get pucks flying around and bodies in front of it's finding your reads is usually the hardest thing the only other thing i would note uh when i watch is is just the pace in some of the sessions i've seen isn't the same and what i'm really curious on that one is because of how far along he is is is that is that a conscious decision to sort of try and maybe get rid of some of the violence which is a word i used to describe in the past of his movements given the physical

toll it seems to have taken over the years um he moved with uh a pace and a quickness that like i said violence is the only word to use It was just so explosive. He would rock into those posts. And I remember I had the league ask for video when the posts were coming off all the time just to sort of show NHL GMs how much power is transferred into a post when goalies just play goal, like that it's not on purpose. And it was really easy just to dig up a video of Thatcher Demko at UBC. And he went into the post so hard that they were coming up an inch and a half, two inches off the ice every time he hit it.

Those nets are heavy too. Those nets are, have you ever tried to lift a hockey net? Those nets are heavy. You're just really soft. Us goalies have to lift them to put the pegs on all the time. It's hard on the back. Typical forward. It's not used to coming back near their net and doing anything around the net.

Come on, bro. But honestly, and I don't have the answer here on that one, guys. But it's something I'll be keeping an eye on because the pace that he played at, it's part of what made him great, but also part of, I think they believe, what left him susceptible. So maybe there won't be a reverse track or a double seal in his game. That's a move that there are a lot of NHL goalies that just don't have it in the bag. They don't have that physical tool because they don't have that physical range of motion.

Maybe that pace and that explosiveness is something he keeps in reserve for only when he needs it. Maybe they play a quieter game. Again, all things that I'm unsure of right now that we'll have to wait and see on until he's actually in game action. All things I would understand in terms of the goal being to get him to the end of a season healthy and in the playoffs.

Because he's one of the top guys in the league. It's easy to imagine that last year would have continued longer than it did if he was in there. So I understand all that, and yet I'm very curious to see if, A, it happens, and then, B, if the effectiveness is the same. Because, again, don't forget, for all the focus on when he comes back, it's easy to forget that the last two you know star level goalies in the first year after Ian Clark left the team had a notable dip in performance and so this is the second part of

it Marco Terranis is an excellent coach who knows all of Ian Clark's sort of teachings like he learned it for the last three years and so a lot of those philosophies I'm sure will be in place. But if you're actually asking him to make changes in his game, coming off a year where he's had none of his normal routines and nothing resembling a normal summer, that's a lot. And he's an exceptional talent. And he's actually one of the things that makes him special is his ability to sort of learn new things quickly.

He adopted the in-clark system faster than anyone I've ever seen. But if you're asking him to make changes on top of everything he's been through this summer, it's at least worth watching and noting and wondering whether it will be a seamless transition back. Well, Kev, the Canucks have a day off today, so you don't have to go out to practice today. I don't know what your plans are, but enjoy them. And we'll talk again soon. Well, I like driving so much in my White Rock Hyundai, especially my Ioniq 5, Jason. But I'm about to text the Rangers and see if they're skating, because I would like nothing more than to watch Igor Shcherkin and Jonathan Quick practice today.

You're such a hard worker, buddy. That's why you're the best. All right, Kev. Talk later. Thanks, Liz. He's going to be the best. All right, Kev. Talk later. Thanks, Liz. He's going to be bench pressing nets later too, by the way, in his garage.

Those things are heavy, man. Have you ever tried to take one off the ice? I've had to do that at practice a couple times. Physically lift it off the ice. And it's like so awkward. It's like a three-person job,

basically. It's very difficult. I always thought they were pretty light, to be honest. Don't get me any problems. Road hockey nets, yeah. Road hockey nets. Yeah. Road hockey nets.

Yeah. Oh, that's what we're talking about? Oh. Those little plastic ones you put together? So I'm going to do a really quick what we learned here. I'm not trying to stir it up, maybe a little bit. But Marty Natchez, who was the piece that was rumored to be involved in a potential Elias Pedersen trade when the Canucks were trying to get Petey to sign a contract.

This guy is off to an unbelievable start. He's got 30 points in 17 games, 11 goals, and 19 assists. There's only two players in the NHL that have more points than him. One is Nathan McKinnon. We all know McKinnon. The other is Kirill Kaprizov, who a lot of people have been saying, we've got to talk about this guy as a potential

Hart Trophy candidate. Then there's Marty Natchez, who his future in Carolina is still up in the air. I'm not talking about this in, maybe they can do that trade still, but I'm talking about that just in general because he signed a two-year contract extension. Remember he had filed for salary arbitration,

and then they avoided that and they signed him to a two-year $13 million contract. And that brings them all the way up to UFA in a year and a half. So this off season would be the one where they could sign him to a long-term extension if it comes together for the team. But who knows if it will. Natchez was always known as a guy that had like an unbelievable amount of talent, but just hadn't really put it together to the level of a superstar or a star like

superstar talent that hadn't really translated 25 years old he did have a season a couple years ago where he had 70 points in 82 games and 28 goals and that's pretty good but then a bit of a step back last season had just 53 points in 77 games. Now on pace for well over 100 points. So that's the start he's off to. You remember what happened in May, right? They had an interview with Natchez's father, and he said that he wanted to trade out of Carolina, that he wasn't happy there.

And then Don Waddell made the remark when he was at a presser, he said, say hi to Marty's dad for me. Don Waddell made the remark when he was at a presser he said say hi to Marty's dad for me Don Waddell now no longer with the Carolina Hurricanes so everyone just assumed that that was gonna end in divorce because well the player wants out the player's father's on the record chirping his dad yeah like okay this isn't gonna end well I mean talk about a turnaround for nature I mean he's on the heater to end all heaters right now. It's actually funny because at the start of the year, he actually started a little slow. He had two pointless games in his first four.

So this is a 13-game point streak. He has 27 points over a 13-game point streak. The Canes are so good, man. I think a lot of people thought they might take a step back because they lost a few pieces, but, man. That was Vegas. That's right. They just keep rolling.

Anyway, give us a quick mookow on that. Per one texter, would you rather have Natchez and Chatfield over Pedersen? Let's not do this right now. Let's not do this right now. We're up against it for time, but it's short on time. The team is already stressed out. Let's not do this right now.

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