Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 11/20/25

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, the boys debate if the Canucks might entertain trading Quinn Hughes this season if things don't go well, plus they preview tonight's 'Nucks home matchup vs the Dallas Stars with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Metcross for check-rins. No! Checkrins of long raids with traffic in front. It's tough to win games when you're. I don't give them up five.

I think it was just a lack of respect for the game of hockey. I'm thinking you're just going to go out there casual and the puck's just going to find you. Nothing matters. Nobody cares. We're all going to die. And I just like say that over and over and over again. Good morning, Vancouver.

601 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. It is Halford and his breath. It is SportsNet 650. We are coming live from the Kintech Studios and beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Nothing matters, but, you know, good morning.

Hey, Doc, good morning. Good morning, I guess. And Lattie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Albert and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Score a debt freedom hat trick. One, no more interest, two much lower payments in three. Financial peace of mind.

Visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio, Kintech Footwear and Orthotics, working together with you in step. Time now for the guest list, better known as the Doick Morning Drive, brought to you by the Doick Auto Group.

The morning begins at 6.30 this morning. Kevin Egan is going to join the program. Studio analyst, MLS season pass, MLS 360 hosts. We are now just two days away, two days away from the massive Whitecaps L-AFC Western Conference semifinal. had a sold-out BC place on Saturday. We'll break all that down with Kevin at 630. Kevin is also a die-hard Ireland fan. He's an Irishman. We'll talk to him about the World Cup playoff draw

that just happened about an hour ago. Ireland's got a tough road if they're going to get to the World Cup. But we'll talk to Kevin about all that at 6.30. 7 o'clock, Owen Newkirk is going to join the program. DLLS Sports Dallas Stars podcast host. Stars, of course, are in Vancouver tonight to take on the Canucks. 7 o'clock, Rogers Arena.

We will preview the game from the Dallas side of things with Owen at 7 o'clock. We can also ask him about that feud between the Dallas stars and the Dallas Mavericks. Yeah. They don't like each other. That's getting very litigious. Yes, litigious is the right word for that. There's been a countersuit. We'll talk to Owen about all that at 7 o'clock.

7.30. Brady Henderson, ESPN, Seahawks Insider. Seahawks are back on the road this Sunday to take on the lowly Titans in Tennessee. The Seahawks are, get this. 13 and a half point road favorite against the Titans. A reminder, that game is a 10 a.m. kickoff. You can hear it right here on SportsNet 650. Brady Henderson for Seahawks talk at 7.30 this morning. You know what my key to that game is?

Don't throw four interceptions. It's a huge way to not lose football games. Throw fewer interceptions. Maybe Cam Ward will be throwing the four interceptions. They do have a turnover problem, though. Like overall, they have a turnover problem. Way too many turnovers this year. And specifically interceptions.

Sam Darnold, you're on watch. 8 o'clock. Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on SportsNet 6.50. As mentioned, Conucks stars tonight, 7 o'clock puck drop pregame at 6. Canucks returned to practice yesterday. There's a lot to unpack from what happened both on and off the ice. We'll get into all that with Drance at 8. We'll do it just on the other side here.

So working in reverse on the guest list, 8 o'clock at's Drance. 7.30, Brady Henderson, 7 o'clock Owen Newkirk, 630, Kevin Egan. That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was...

We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.com.

After a travel day, two days ago, the Vancouver Connects returned to practice yesterday. at Rogers Arena, had some new looks to the Lions. We had some injury updates. We had Adam Foote yelling at his players. An awful lot to unpack yesterday. We got a new look in the top six, Jason, if we want to start there. Yeah, Garland is back, but he's not with Elias Pedersen, and I think that might have surprised a few people

because Garland and EP40 had some good chemistry together, but Pedersen does remain with Evander Kane, who of course set him up for one of his nice goals. against the Florida Panthers and Sherwood is on the right side and then Garland gets hooked up with the newest Canuck player, David Kempf who goes from terminating his contract

with the Toronto Maple Leafs because he couldn't get any playing time to second line center with the Vancouver Canucks. Brock Besser is on the left side there. These are just the practice line so we don't know for sure that these will be the lines against the Dallas Stars, but, you know, usually.

The third line is Atu-Ratu between Drew O'Connor, who's playing very well, and Jake DeBrusk, who is playing very well on the power play. Max Sasson is the fourth line center between Carlson and Reichel. And Reichel stays in the lineup, despite Connor Garland coming back in, and that comes at the expense of McKeckern, who I think has been pretty good. but I guess Reichel lives to see another day. The other day, Halford and I were like, do you know he's played 13 games with the Canucks?

Shocking. And it's going to get to 14, apparently, unless something changes this morning. There were no changes to the defensive pairs, which, again, was, I don't know, that might have been the biggest surprise, although I'm not exactly sure what you would do, but Marcus Pedersen and Tyler Myers are still together.

Hughes and Hironix still together. and D.P.D. and Tom Veelander are still together. And that second pair has drawn the ire of the fan base because for a couple of veteran defensemen, they've been making too many mistakes. You got D.P.D. and Tom Vilander, and Vee Lander made a bit of a mistake on the winning goal by the Florida Panthers. One of the many goals,

the Florida Bantthers scored. But that happened to be the winning goal where Tom Velander was just kind of standing beside his defenseman, didn't tie up the stick, didn't get underneath the stick, as Adam Foote said, but the defense remains the same. And as you mentioned, Foote yelled at the players during the practice. Maybe he saw what Craig Burrubay did in Toronto the other day when he yelled at the players. He was like, I'm going to yell at the players too, because Toronto's not defending and Vancouver wasn't defending, especially against the Florida Panthers. But it's been an issue all season. And it's going to be real interesting

to see how the Canucks look tonight against the Dallas Stars. there be a real focus on defending, and if they continue to have trouble with their assignments in their own end, with the system, figuring out what's going on, you know, it's just going to make things more challenging for Adam Foote, who did have a few things to say after practice yesterday. Why don't we play the audio now? So we've got about a minute and a half, minute, 15 seconds of Adam Foote talking about defending, something he did over the course of his NHL career and is now tasked with trying to get the Vancouver Canucks to do because going into last night's action, the Canucks had conceded the most goals in the entire National Hockey League,

no longer. Edmonton now holds that man, and we'll talk about them in a minute. But we will go now to the head coach following yesterday's practice, Adam Foote, talking about his team's defending. Here's the audio. Lots of accent on defending this morning and practice. Yeah, we, you know, you guys know the numbers, you know, a goal and a half has to stop, has to stop, right? We have a lot of young guys and a lot, I think sometimes we just keep teaching, you know, extend your coverage, clothes, sort out the system with them.

And what happens is, you know, and it's happened to me, you know, when I play, there's times where if you get on a new team or you go to a different situation with some youth or things like that. sometimes you're too early on the play sometimes you're late you know what I mean and just to go over it and go over it again and again continue to do it and we're slowly getting it but you know you play against those three teams they can expose that

quickly right with their experience but you know if you're laid on a boxout or you don't get under the stick you're over it like or you don't engage in the box out earlier or you think one guy's getting beat so you go help them and then that guy's fine

and you get the puck passes through you, right, to the guy that you were checking. So little things like that, and I believe we're close, and we're going to keep working on it. So I was wondering when Adam Foote would reach this point, because without the corrections happening on the ice, it was going to be hard for him to come in game after game,

practice after practice, and reiterate the same things that he's been reiterating so far, which is we're right there, we're making tiny mistakes. A couple of mistakes there. Right? and you know you kind of nod and smile but at a certain point you know that that's going to stop because people are going to say well at what point

do you either ratchet up the standard or do you go from being the patient glass half full coach to the I'm running short on patients enough's enough coach and I think we're starting to see the evolution from one to the other right now because you can't keep going in and giving up goals with the regularity

that the connects are giving up. And I think more importantly, if you're pointing out the mistakes and they're not being corrected, are you really doing anything? Like, pointing out mistakes is great. And it's an important way to learn is to identify what went wrong.

But if the changes aren't happening and if the corrections aren't being made, you're not really doing anything productive. You're just pointing out the flaws. So I can understand why Flip probably drew his eye or yesterday because a lot of the things that he mentioned in that clip, that's just sort of basic,

like this is your job, you need to do these things. If you want to talk about non-negotiables, those are his, boxing out, taking care of sticks. I think the big one for him, and he's mentioned us a bunch is. Yeah, it's not like that's the first time they've ever heard that in hockey. Right? Like, I mean, these are, I mean, I don't. Take a stick? I don't play hockey and I know these things, right?

I think the important thing here is where he's talked a lot now about guys leaving to do other guys' jobs. Yeah. And I think that that might be the hardest thing. to break through with this group for whatever reason. It's because of the swarm system, though, right? Like, when you're swarming the puck, it's not one-on-one. You're taking multiple guys, and you're going to the puck, and then if you don't get the puck, if you don't turn the puck over

and then start the breakout out the other way, then you know what's going to look like? It's going to look like you're running around. Right, which is. Because then guys are going to be open. Yeah. And I, oh, oh, three guys went to the puck. And this guy is wide open. That's crazy how that works.

It's almost like it's math. So based on what you just said and what foot said, I do wonder if the defensive system he's trying to employ here is just, it's too much. That'd be funny if Adam was like, I'm just going to make a quick call to Philly. Yeah. I just be like,

I wasn't paying all that much attention. What was the system we did? We dumbed it down, right? We made it easier for them. What were you saying when you mentioned this stuff? about the things. Yeah. I mean,

because here's the thing right now, they're not getting it. Can we just all agree? The proof is in the goals against? They're not getting the system. They're not getting the system, but there's also a serious personnel issue

because I know you didn't play hockey, but you know that the center is quite responsible defensively. No, that's fair. That's fair. You know, he's got to take a man in front of the net as well, right? So when you've got the center depth that the Canucks do have, I mean, I think it's interesting that Garland went with David Kempf.

Yeah. Because what's Garland? He's the guy that you put on the line that maybe has a struggling player or, you know, I know PD's playing better, but at five on five, I think Garland might still be their best forward. So you put him with the new center, the new defensive center, and maybe he's playing better. that's going to be the line that gets some of the harder matchups tonight against the Dallas Stars and you know

Adam Foote also mentioned sometimes you know you have newer players oh yeah like who yeah I mean you know he struggled in his first game he was minus three or whatever and and that and no one was blaming him because they were explaining the system to him right before the game

and even he and they were probably like don't worry no one really understands it yeah just run around you look like everybody else. Okay, injury updates. You mentioned Connor Garland there. So Connor Garland did return to the ice after missing Monday's 8-5 loss to the Florida Panthers

with a minor injury that the club said he suffered during a fight on Sunday against Taylor Raddish and the Tampa Bay Lightning. Murph went on to share that Garland tweaked something that had already been bothering him during that fight with Radish, which is why he was sidelined. They ruled out a concussion. So

Garland will be back in the lineup tonight. There's one of your injury updates. The next is Nils Hoaglander. Now, when he was originally hurt, underwent surgery, walking boot, all that stuff. The club said that it would be an 8 to 10 week window for return. And yesterday, Adam Foote said, quote, he's doing great. It looks like it'll be closer to 10 weeks. I think it could be off by a couple days there, but that's what I've been told, end quote. A connect spokesperson confirmed that Hoaglander has resumed skating on his own without the team. If you were to do the 10 weeks from when he

originally got hurt on September 29th, Hoaglander would return for that December 8th game against Detroit. It's difficult to pinpoint anything because his foot said they might be off a couple days, but Hoaglander's return getting closer and closer. In less encouraging news, Teddy Blugher, this is another injury update,

suffered a setback in his return from injury. He was hurt in the third period against the Washington Capitals a while ago. It seemed as though that Bluger was on the way back within the last 10, to 14 days, as a matter of fact. He was actually at a practice in a non-contact jersey

at the beginning of November. Suffered a setback and has now been out for a month and they don't really have a definitive timeline on when he's going to return and that's not great. Speaking of not great injury updates, Derek Foreboard, I have no idea what's going on here, but it sounds like he's going to continue to be out for a while.

Yeah. Foot mentioned something about his midsection. Yeah. Which comprises a lot of things, so who knows? He's like a defensive Brandon Sutter. Remember just perma injured? Like he's probably we played like nine games for the Canucks it feels like I know he's played more than that but I mean it feels like he gets injured every other game well this

one's especially strange because if you'll recall he did play in the first two games of the season then was given the game off against St. Louis which was the Jimmy Snuggaroo game that was due to maintenance at the time they classified it as a maintenance day off and he hasn't played since

and he didn't practice the next day and then after that he was placed on IR they don't have a return date for him no time line for when Derek Foremore made me back in the lineup. I wonder if it's some sort of groin thing. Possibly. You know?

Hernia. Who knows? Sports hernia? Something like that. But it's not great. Who knows, though we are speculating. Yeah. But the penalty kill double checking still stinks, so it would be really nice to get Teddy

Bluger and Derek Forbore back in the lineup. The Canucks go into tonight's action with the 32nd rank penalty kill in the NHL. And that's important to know because there are 32 teams in the National Hockey League. at 67.1%. They have a worse penalty kill than the Ottawa Senators. Them in Ottawa are the only two teams in the NHL with a sub-70% penalty kill.

You know what else is a problem? What's that? Dallas's power play is second in the NHL, clicking at 32%. 32%? Wild. How good their power play is. Now, a quick look at the Dallas stars. We'll leave some of this for Owen Newkirk

later, but they are in tonight. They're one of the best teams in the national Hockey League and one of the best teams in the Western Conference. They would have been in first place in the Central Division, if not for the Colorado Avalanche, who are off to an unbelievable start. But the Dallas Stars are 12, 5, and 3. They're second in the Central.

That loss that we talked about yesterday, where they lost at home to the Islanders and an absolutely bonkers end to that game. Snap the five-game win streak. So they go out on the road now looking to get back to their winning ways. They got a lot of injuries on defense, though. Thomas Harley, Ilya Lubbushkin, and Nils Lundqvist are all out for them.

conceivable amount of time too, I think. I think Harley's going to be out for the duration of this road trip that they're on, and that's a big loss for them. Matt DeShay and Adam Ernie are out up front as well. Okay, we'll catch up with Owen Newkirk on the Dallas stars later in the show, but I do want to turn our attention to what happened. Last night in the NHL, where the Edmonton Oilers lost again, and a lot of the same issues showed up in a 7-4 loss to the Washington Capitals. The goaltending early on was not good. Stuart Skinner

gave up a bunch of goals in the first period. Evan Bouchard defensively was not good. Ryan Leonard bullied him on one play and then I mean it was not really key to the game but

Evan Bouchard also gave up a goal, an empty netter goal when he just turned the puck over at the blue line but the Oilers were already down two goals That was the seventh goal to make it seven to four. And, you know, I watched this game, and other than McDavid and Drysidal, you were struggling to find an Oilers forward that was really making an impact. I think the fourth line scored.

Yep. But I don't know what the final numbers were for McDavid and Drysidal, but they probably played 24 minutes each around there. Like they played a lot, and that is the coach Knoblock looking at his forward group, been going like, I don't have enough forwards here. And I know Ryan Nugent Hopkins is hurt right now. But, you know, I, again, it's like Pod Colson, we all liked Pod Colson here in Vancouver. He worked hard.

He cannot finish. And right now he's in a top six role. So last night, Connor McDavid played 24-02, which is a lot. Leon Drysiddle played 2326. And get this, they're so desperate that they're third. Third best forward right now is one, Jack Roslovick. And two, Jack Roslovick nearly played 23 minutes last night. That's crazy to have Jack Roslovick.

Yep. He also went minus three. That's almost as crazy as terminating your contract with a team because you can't get into a game, going to a new team, and you're the second line center. And you took that second line center position from a guy that couldn't get a job in Chicago. Yeah.

Is that weird? Is that weird? Who's now the fourth line left wear? For now. And we're kind of like, I don't know. I think Mackenzie McKeckern deserves that spot. You know, there are some similarities between the Canucks and the Oilers right now. The records are very similar.

There's a lot of consternation. So right now, the Edmonton Oilers are dead last in the NHL and goals against, dead last in five-on-five goals against, and dead last in team overall safe percentage. Those are not good numbers. They are in a meat grinder of a road trip right now. It's their longest one of the season. I believe it's a seven-gamer, and they've still got two more to go. And they've got to do the gauntlet that the Canucks just fits.

finished. Speaking of similarities between the two, they go to Tampa Bay on Thursday and then they finish with a Stanley Cup rematch against the Florida Panthers on Saturday. Now, that should have been a much Ballyhooed matchup between the two teams that met in the last two Stanley Cup finals. But with all the injuries and how badly Edmonton's playing and the fact that it's at the end of a seven game road trip, it's taken some of the juice out of that one. We'll see how it goes. But Edmonton's in a really bad way right now. I don't know. I don't know if it's ever going to get to the point. where they got a fire knoblock. They would have to go on a car crash. It's not his fault, man. I know, but you've seen them do it before. They did it with Woodcroft, right? Where they just got too many losses and they had to fire a guy. I know people are making the comparisons to other seasons.

I was watching the game with the boy yesterday, who was nine. And he said, he said two things that were pretty funny. He said, oh, the Oilers always start slow. They're always terrible. And then on the, uh, on the empty netter where Bouchard makes a mistake. He goes, there goes Bouchard giving up again. Wow, very accurate.

Right? Because he did. He just like gave up one. He was like, ah, pulled a J.T. Miller. He was like, I'm not going to catch him. He said Sinar the way that he went. That was pretty funny, though. But look, look.

You should record that and texted it to J.T. Bourne. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know where. Justin Bourne. Yeah, I don't know why's the J.T. Bourne. That's okay. I'm looking at his Twitter ad.

There was a lot. of people that were, there was a lot of people that were roasting Boren last night on social media. He was like, oh, God, I wish I'd never tweeted that. Is the guy he wanted him on Team Canada? That's the guy. Yeah, Boren said he wanted Bouchard on Team Canada. The timing of the take was what blew me away. We should have him on the show just to talk

about that one. I think he regrets it. No, he's going to let it go. My point about the Oilers, though, and it's one that, and I've been making over and over again, and I think when Connor McDavid signed just a two-year contract extension, it kind of showed something. Like, again, Two years ago, their forward group was way better than it is right now.

One year ago, it was slightly worse than two years ago, but still good. And now you're looking at it and you're just like, oh, there's not much there. There's a reason why McDavid and Dryside are playing 24 minutes a night. Yeah, like this is definitely a personnel issue. You're right. You can't put this at the feet of the coach. This isn't Knoblox fault. At the same time, they are going to.

reach a desperation point if it keeps going like this? Because how much more can he conceivably play Drysidal and McDavid in these individual games? I don't know. 27 minutes a night? And what happens if they keep losing these games? One more thing I wanted to get to before, or did you have something else? So one's exxed and I wonder how McDavid feels about that

new contract. Yeah, he's thinking, man, that was maybe signed on a bit too long there. Should have knocked a year off that thing. Made it even shorter. Okay, finally before we go to break, I do want to mention the Buffalo Sabers. Because the Buffalo Sabers had another, and in a long line of disappointing losses, another disappointing loss last night.

They lost 6-2 to the Calgary Flames in a game in which a Calgary Flame scored four times in the third period to blow this open. I know we played a bit of this in the intro, Greg, but I want to play it again. Short clip from Tage Thompson, who was visibly, visibly disappointed yesterday, talking about his team's approach to games. Hear what Tage Thompson had to say about his team following a 6-2 loss to Calgary last night. it doesn't matter who you're playing you can win on any given night you can lose on any given night it doesn't matter who you're lying off across

so I think it was just a lack of respect for the game of hockey thinking you're just going to go out there casual and the puck's just going to find you and it's not the case you got no respect Jess when you think everyone said everything that could be said about how bad

the Buffalo Sabers are Tage Thompson says that there was a lack of respect for the game of hockey so you know I know that the only reason I bring this up is because we've talked a lot about apathy in market

when it comes to a team and it's funny because I just kind of ducked back into the Buffalo situation because Buffalo's dead that matchup last night was between the two worst teams in the East and West

but they just had a good win over the Oilers I know but if you look at the standings Buffalo's dead last in the East and Calgary's dead last in the West those were technically speaking the two worst teams in the NHL right there

and one dramatically outplayed the other at home in the third period and I was Paul Hamilton who we've had on the show numerous times had a pretty lengthy article and in it he wrote like this team is at the bottom of the Eastern Conference on merit

it's not a fluke because they're truly the worst team in the east and then he said this is a flawed team and a flawed hockey department it's flawed from the very top down and he's been saying this for what I feel is like close to a decade

and at this point it's like how many times can you say the same things and complain about the same players and be disappointed by the same group of individuals before you just throw your hands up in there, like, whatever. Well, J.J. Paterka's playing pretty well for Utah. And all these guys escape. Good point.

And all these guys escape, and they play really well. And we've gone down the list a thousand times. It's just, and I know it's taken a long time in Buffalo. It's been 14 years with other playoffs. But when these guys are saying things very loudly and without any filter, and nothing changes. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Did you hear what Dollywell said on crossover yesterday? I did not. I only have so much bandwidth. He said that he does believe that if Quinn Hughes doesn't want to commit long-term to the Canucks, that that trade could happen this season. Like before the trade deadline he meant. Let's look at this.

I mean, I thought at first that the real. rebuild conversation was a waste of breath, quite honestly, because I didn't think that they were going to entertain it unless Quinn Hughes decided to leave it, and then they'd still play out this season. But then there was the, and we didn't talk about this yesterday, there was a Gary Mason piece in the globe. I had out of nowhere, really, talking about rebuilds, and all Gary decided to weigh into the conversation. Now you got Friege talking about it on 32 thoughts. It just seems like in a weird way. They've convinced ownership that it's time. They've been successful. I don't know if I'm ready to go. I'm reading it because you're seeing it from

so many different sources now. I don't know if I'm ready to go there. I think I am. Are we ready I mean eventually eventually I don't think you'd see it from this many different angles if there wasn't a conversation had we're like look like if Hughes leaves we don't have a choice. I know you don't want to do the rebuild but if he actually goes there is no alternative here to turn there is an alternative is that you play a trade for win now players and you if even if the trade does involve you flip those futures quickly for players that can play. The trade would probably include roster. Like, you would get some guys that are playing now.

I mean, it wouldn't just be a bunch of ticks. Like, you'd get a haul. I mean, you could focus it around purely futures because you've got to think that if you're trading Hughes, you're trading it to a team that doesn't want to lose roster players. Right? Yeah. Like, you know, like, well, give us your top player.

Like, no, that's not the point of the trade. We need him. Okay, but let's take it back one step here. I think an interesting angle to all of this is that the market in which the Canucks couldn't add because there's no sellers might actually end up being a market that will benefit them in this particular scenario. Because we've already talked about the bounty that Hughes would get in return. The bounty you'd get in return for Hughes, if you were to move at this deadline because you get two years. Imagine the other bounties that you could get for some of the players on this team. In a market where nobody's selling.

Yeah. And there's no deals going on. I mean, if there was, if, if, if, if, if, if there was ever a time to do it, right now, that's the time to do it. Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk joins us now in the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. What up, Drancer? Gentlemen, good morning. Good morning to you. Here's the situation I find myself in.

I have, at times, on this show, suggested that talking about a rebuild with the Vancouver Canucks is a, pointless exercise and a waste of breath because it's not going to happen. And now I think I might be changing my tune ever so slightly because for some reason or another, be it through informed speculation or the countless articles written, it just doesn't feel like the conversation is going away. Am I on to something here or am I grasping at straws? It's the hope that kills you. Ah, that's fair.

I would say, I mean, I don't know. I'll believe it when I see it. What I do think, though, is like, did you guys watch? watch Boston Anaheim last night? I did. What a fun game, right? Very good. Did you watch Celebrini and Bedard's

dueling hat tricks the night previous? I try to watch every Celebrini game now. Right. They're incredible. Night after night in the NHL right now, it's just like reality, putting an absolute boot into all of the takes that we've heard

across the last seven, eight years, maybe 10 years in the city. about how rebuilding doesn't work, right? Like the New York Islanders, the Montreal Canadiens, the Anaheim Ducks, the Utah mammoth, the Celebrini-Badard stuff. I mean, like truly, you look at the bottom of the standings and there's a deeply unsurious organization

that doesn't spend like a normal NHL team. And, you know, it's sad that the Buffalo Savers have become, then they're not quite an Arizona coyotes level laundromat, but when you look at the discrepancy between how other teams have signing bonuses, for example, right? How those other teams compete for players and how the Buffalo Sabres do. I mean, you can say it's a failed rebuild, but it's not. It's something larger in terms of institutional failing.

And a bunch of teams that have been the most reactionary in terms of being completely unable, excuse me, to invest in any sort of patience, right? the Calgary Flames, the Nashville Predators, right? The Vancouver Canucks. The teams that have accumulated talent are reaping the benefits through the first quarter of the season. And that's not to say that these teams have arrived or are ready for prime time, but at least it's fun, right?

At least it's fun and there's buzz around them and the standings look different and some of the older teams have calcified and are going to need to make some pretty hard decisions themselves about what direction to go in. And it does feel like there's. a changing of the guard in the league, to some extent. I still think the best five or six teams are the best five or six teams. So I don't know that, you know, other than the devils, I don't know why, and they'll need Jack Hughes back.

Like, I don't know that any of these young upstart whippersnapper teams are ready to knock off the Florida Panthers or what have you. But, you know, there's, things are a changing, right? The seeds that have been sown are, are ready to be plucked, clearly. And so, I mean, Of course, the conversation is happening in one of the NHL's most engaged hockey marketplaces that has been talking about the need to rebuild or the need to rebuild with discipline this time for 10-plus years, especially given the context around the Quinn Hughes-related uncertainty, right?

Of course, that conversation's happening. And if the conversation is actually impacting anyone's thinking at Roger Zerano or off of Griffith's way, I mean, how could it not? Like, how could it not, right? When the good thing about sports, right, is there's a reality check, three, four times a week, right? There's a time limit. There's no games. There's no, like, corrupt way of being like, actually, it was right to not rebuild because I say so.

It's like, no, there's results. There's a standings table. There's games, multiple games every night, multiple games for your team every week. Like, there's a reality check. If you're wrong, the proof's there multiple times a week. So, you know, how could it not? Like, it's an absolute sledgehammer just sort of hitting this market over the head night after night in the NHL on both the out-of-town scoreboard

and when we watch this team, you know, get pumped like 111 to 51 on the shot clock or the shot counter in any way. So how does the Hughes thing get handled? Do you go to him, I don't know, around the Olympic break or something before the trade deadline and go, hey, how are you feeling? I know we can't technically sign you until July 1st, but let's say we could. Would you be interested in that? And if he's kind of like, eh, do you move him now? Because I can't imagine the hall that you could get for Quinn Hughes, considering he has no trade protection.

and he wouldn't be in control of the situation. You can trade him to any contender or maybe another team that's not a contender that wants a Quinn Hughes and might think that has a chance to resign him in the right circumstance. I can't imagine the haul you could get. I would prefer to keep Quinn Hughes,

but if that isn't an option, then in my opinion, or the way I'm looking at it, the second best option would be to trade them before this trade deadline. Yeah, I mean, I'm of the opinion that you're better off waiting until the summer, generally, right? Like, I want to, I would value an elite talent at that level to the point where I'd want to take all the time available to me because weird things happen, right? Things change, odd things happen. If I have time, I'm going to use it.

We're talking about, you know, in my opinion, the best defenseman in the league. We are talking about one of the five to ten most impactful skaters in the league, I think probably closer to the top five when he's absolutely on his game. I'd be doing everything possible to maximize my chances of retaining him first. And for me, that means there's no like side conversation where it's like, yeah, I'm leaning this way. It's like, no, I want to throw, you know, an insane pile of money in front of him with a signing bonus structure that he can.

cannot get if he doesn't sign now, and I want to hear him say no before I go about that. You know what I mean? Like, I want to do everything possible to test that situation before I conclude that it's not possible. And truly, I also do believe that while two playoff runs is, is, you know, obviously going to be appealing for any number of teams, regardless of whether or not they think, they have a chance to extend him. I think trading him with the extension in hand is still your best path to getting a return, which is only possible after July 1. So for me anyway, I'm still

of the opinion that there's no rush to do anything this season. I value the chance of retaining the player more highly. And I think at the end of the day, anything, you know, that you have an informal conversation ahead of the deadline colored by what's happening in season, etc., etc., like, isn't as impactful as throwing, you know, here's, here's the Caprizov deal, right? Here's the Caprizov deal with as much signing bonuses were legal, front-loaded signing bonuses were legally allowed to offer you, and which no one will legally be allowed to offer you again. Here's that. You're going to sign it?

Like, that's what I want to hear, right? Do you think getting the most money is going to, you know, do you think getting the most money overall is going to be the determining factor for Quinn Hughes? probably not but I mean we're going to be talking about a huge amount of money I mean the Canucks have in their arsenal here among among the things they have in their arsenal is the ability to pay him more than anyone else and and is it going to be the top priority I line item that decides his fate I'd be surprised right I'm not saying that it's yeah I'm just saying that it's a weapon you got to use follow up go about

protecting your rights follow up question if you give him the extension and then trade him and your argument is that you can get more for an extended player. Is he not then in control of the situation? Yeah, but that's going to be the case to some extent anyway, right? And it's not like you seed all control, because as you said, there's no trade protection. So, you know, if you find that there's like, oh, well, I only want to go here, that's the only place I'm going to go, which is usually not how this breaks down. It's usually a short list or some measure of that.

like that's how it played out with Matthew Kachuk in any event right where there could be in this situation though with New Jersey right in which case it's like no no and and you know if if like you find yourself with an opponent on the other side of the table saying well he only is going to come here we're going to get him anyway like we don't have to pay you full freight your check checkmate right but that's why that's why you could that's why you could do it ahead of the trade deadline right

I mean, I understand that logic, but like, I still think the ability to have Quinn Hughes for a full season is not going to like, do you really think there's a huge difference in the premium that teams are going to be willing to pay? You know, I don't. Like, I really don't, but one versus two playoff runs. Like the thirst to win for teams that are close to the top, the marginal value added of bringing in a Hughes is still worth, you know, everything, right? Like, it's still worth just the most enormous asset possible. And so if you find yourself in that situation, you just tell the trade partner you're having a conversation with, like, we will send him to the absolute most desirable possible place. Like, you better be certain that that's what he wants because we're going to offer him up to all of the best teams in the league and the low tax states with the least media attention and the best weather. And you better hope you're right, right?

You better pay full freight now or you better hope you're right because we're, you know, going to protect our interests here. I mean, that's it. Like, you're not, I don't, I just don't think you're as checkmated as I think people, like the reason you don't, I don't think you should feel pressure to do it this season in season is that you're not as checkmated as it seems. Like I think there's, the truth is is that players like this are so rare and so extraordinarily valuable that teams will pay for them. Like you will return an unholy haul. And by the way, you will, A, return an unholy hall regardless of the extraneous circumstances and leverage points. And B, and B, no matter what you return, it still is not going to be enough. Yeah.

It's not going to be enough. Which begs another question. What do you do with the rest of the roster? Because you do have some good players under contract. Now, a lot of them do have trade protection, which would make some more common. complicated, but do you keep guys like Connor Garland? Do you keep an Elias Pedersen if you're going into a rebuild like Jake DeBresk? I mean, there's a guy that you can get some, you know, you go, because the connects aren't wrong when they say we have some good players on this roster.

They do have some good players, but it's a question of whether or not it's worth it to keep those around. Yeah, and I think the, I think, this is where we get into a bigger sort of game theory conversation about what a rebuild looks like in an era of cap growth, right? And that's a different conversation than we would have been having a few years ago. I mean, in the flat cap era, right? Anything that's not bolted down to the ground, I think, was worth selling because great teams can't keep good players making good players available with few suitors, right?

because not everyone has cap space, which filters talent to you. You still might have to overpay, but there was a way of taking advantage of the situation. I mean, you could get paid for taking on good players two, three years ago, right? And now you have to pay even for like a Dakota Joshua type somewhat distressed asset, right? I mean, the Kinnock's got a positive value return for Joshua's deal. three years ago, there was no world where they would have had to pay to get off of the deal or they would have been stuck with it, right? I mean, it's just a totally different market dynamic. And I think that has significant implications for how deep you should go or how you, you know, quote unquote weaponize your sort of cap sheet.

I also think it places such a premium on recruitment, right, that, you know, like losing good players is something that has to be done with a different. level of caution now um what what i would say is i would just like as a as a sort of golden rule here i would say even in an era of cap growth the thing i least want a roster is a player who can single-handedly ruin my draft lottery odds right like the thing i the thing i least want is a guy who can single-handedly do it regardless of what the environment looks like so isn't that a goalie that's a goalie and that's like a superstar level center or a guy who I think

might be able to get back to the level of a superstar level center, right? Because he's not, he's not back yet. I read Harms piece in the athletic and I think it was bang on. Like you can say things are better. Things are better but he's he's not back yet. No, sorry. I agree.

But also if you know, this season continues to trend well and his confidence grows and he comes back next season and he's got another burst in his step, you know, I'm not, I'm going to be like, oh, man, well, now all of a sudden I'm worried that he's worth 10 extra points on a bad team. You know what I mean?

That's all I'm saying. He's got the chance to do it. I'm not saying he's back. I'm saying he's got the chance to do it. He's got the talent to do it. So that that's the stuff that I'd be worried about. And like, for example, the Canucks defense, right? Which has, I think, underperformed,

I think it's fair to say, given this team's overall structure and permissiveness five-on-five. Like, I want, ideally, to have a relatively robust defense. I want to be struggling to score or I want to at least be struggling to finish, right? I want to have goaltending that's not stealing me games because ideally, if I'm losing in rebuilding seasons, I still want to be in games, I still want to be competitive. I still want my product to feature a bunch of players who are working hard, right? we're not getting there but man you come to the rank every night you know you're not being short

changed on effort right you know we're going to be in some of the games right like we're going to be able to at least skate with people i think a good defense score helps you do that and i also think it's harder in some ways to rebuild once you once you've sort of grafted elite talent onto it also if you graft elite talent onto a team with no sort of structural concept uh we see it like it's it's it's harder to get sort of going with rocket fuel back up the standings. Whereas, you know, if you've got that sort of like Jackson Lacombe, Jacob Truba, Radco Gudis, ready-made defense corps, I think it looks better once you're young, you know, young skill guys start to hit. So I would, I would say like the defenders would be sort of last on my list.

The guys who can fundamentally alter the gravity of where I finish in the standings and so are my draft Lottery odds would be the guys that I'd prioritize moving, and I would be pretty cautious unless it was clear, huge win-now deals about getting rid of the good players sort of in the middle in terms of guys who are signed now. Is the defense the offensive line of hockey? Do you know how like NFL teams will draft a quarterback? Got to win in the trenches?

They were like, yeah, he's a great talent. Our offensive line needs work. Oh, he's hurt now. Oh, he's heard pretty bad. thing. Yeah. Yeah, no. And then, and then whereas like Bo Nix got massively overrated because the Denver Broncos made multiple huge investments in the offensive line. Russ still couldn't cook anything. They couldn't cook grilled cheese. And by the time Bo Nix came in, they were like, oh, wow, we have this incredible offensive line. And boy, doesn't this mediocre quarterback look like a star, right? It's so, yeah, I think that's about right. I think that's about, about right. And I'd also add, you know, having a good defense isn't enough to win, right? Like, just like you can have a good O line, but at the end of the day, if you're dropping back J.J. McCarthy, the ball's getting thrown to the other team, right?

If you have a good defense core and not enough up front, well, you might not even be good defensively as we've arguably seen this season. Speaking to Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. And now we turn our attention back. to tonight's game. No, I'm just kidding. It is hilarious when you do the juxtaposition between the big picture, most pressing questions facing this organization and its uncertain future.

And then you dial back to the present. You're like, now we get to see David Kemp make his home ice debut on a Thursday against Dallas. Well, you know, I think it's okay, though. Like, I think it's okay. I think the truth is that the big picture is so much more. interesting than the minutia especially because of how this team's performed out of the gate you know there's only so much like hold the fort talk you can you can indulge in you know what i mean there's only so much and you know i i think the truth is is the big picture the tectonic forces

that we're seeing right we're like we're talking about transcendent young teams and transcendent young players rising in the western conference right guys who are going to matter to that the history of the league across the next decade and how that impacts Vancouver's outlook. Like, that's the exact conversation we should be having. Like, that's the league. That's the league. And it always has been, right?

It's like the Canucks in the 80s with Gretzky absolutely pummeling them, right? It's the Canucks get their best chance at a, um, at sort of a deep playoff run in 15 years. And they get just close enough for Connor McDavid to break their heart, right? I mean, this is what shapes outcomes in this league. So I don't think it's, I mean, I don't think it's like an unhealthy thing as much as, you know, as much as like the national media might want to pretend that rebuilds are unrealistic or that, you know, talking about it is disrespectful to the effort of the players. Like, I think this market has a better understanding of what actually matters and what they want to see them that.

Yeah, and I understand the, you know, the nuance and the balance between talking about, you know, who's going to be on the second line with comp tonight when they play Dallas and then talking about a fundamentally altering move like trading queen. He was like, it's all about the Canucks. And I think at this point, and we've talked about this a lot, as an inflection point, it's important that there's the, you know, passionate fan base that still cares and is still dialed in and still wants to discuss the minutia and the big picture stuff because you brought up Buffalo. Earlier in the call, I was talking about this earlier on the show, that's where apathy set in in a big way. It's people saying the same things over and over and over again about their disdain for the organization top to bottom, but they're doing it almost in a lifeless sort of way now.

Like this is just how we talk about this team, but it doesn't really matter because we don't really care. Yeah. No, I mean, at the end of the day, this team still feels vital. It's just the vitality, I think, comes more from, you know, like a latent repressed hope that we might start to see more sensible investment in terms of what they're prioritizing, right? And that's, I think, perfectly reasonable, right? And look, I mean, I get it. It's going to be an expensive thing if this team rebuilds. But the real

truth of this, right, that people don't say frequently enough is that in the contemporary NHL, in a league with the Crankies and Vinnie Viola and the Harris Group and Hanso Platner, right? The owner of HP who owns the Sharks. If you can't afford to invest in a couple of losing seasons where you're... Yeah. It's an investment. It's an investment. You can't afford to win a championship in the NHL.

Yeah. And by the way, if that's the level, that's okay. I don't think that's a huge problem, right? Like, you know, we're going to try and count cards. We're going to try and, you know, exploit every possible edge, right? We're not going to be that team because what that team is is unattainable in our market. I mean, I don't think that's true in Vancouver, but if that's true, like, there's approaches to doing it that way, too, right? That I'm open to that I don't think is a problem, but I don't think we have to be, like, polite about it.

Like, we don't have to pretend, right, that there's no, that, like, there's a, straightforward path to accumulating enough talent to build a championship team that doesn't require that investment. You know what I'm saying? Like that's just comforting, you know, like the capriciousness of billionaires that don't want to spend and are impatient as opposed to leveling with, you know, thinking hockey fans in one of the most engaged markets in the world. So I'm not going to indulge in that. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.