Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 1/12/26

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Mike & Jason look back at a busy weekend in sports, they discuss Saturday's Canucks road loss in Toronto which, plus they discuss what's next for the club with Sportsnet's Iain MacIntyre & Canucks Central's Satiar Shah. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. 13 seconds left in the third. The Maple Leafs go up 5 to nothing. Did we just lose a fucking Canucks? No, no, no, no. Allen in the shotgun, fakes the pass there, looks for Kincaid and he's got him.

Who carries it into the end zone for the touchdown? Down. Perth steps up. Middle. Knock the! What a... Morning Vancouver, 6.01 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody.

Is Halpert. It is Brought at His SportsNet 650. We are coming you live from the Kintech Studios in beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adaw, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well.

Hello, hello. Halpert and Brought of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Score a debt freedom hat trick. One, no more interest, too much lower payments and three financial peace of mind. Visit them online at Sands. We are an hour one of the program. Hour 1 is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle you get paid.

Visit the Middle 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studio, make 2026 your year to move better and step stronger with Kintech custom orthotics. We got a big show ahead on a Monday. Tons to get into today. Our guest list today, the Duhick Morning Drive, brought to you by the Dubeck. Guicato Group begins at 7 o'clock, Mike Tannier, our NFL insider from the two-deep zone is going to join the program. What a wild card weekend in the National Football League so far, because it's not over yet. First four games of the five on the

weekend all had fourth quarter comebacks for victories. Unbelievable entertainment. We got one more tonight as the Steelers host, the Texans. Yeah, Justin Herbert last night was like, watch this comeback. Oh, I am in pain. Incredible amounts of pain. Mike's going to join us at 7 o'clock this morning to recap the weekend and preview tonight's game. 7.30, Ian McIntyre is going to join the program. Canucks reporter for SportsNet,

IMAC has been putting out some really strong efforts on the road, much stronger than the efforts the Vancouver Canucks have been putting out on the road. This includes his most recent interview with Jim Rutherford, the president of hockey ops following Saturday's dismal 5-0 loss in Toronto. So IMAX is going to join us with Tales from the Road. You're just going to join us from Montreal this morning at 7.30. 8 o'clock Satyar Shah is going to join the program. Canucks Central, Canucks pre and postgame show host on SportsNet 650.

Canucks are back in action tonight, as I mentioned, from Montreal. It's a 430 puck drop. It's an Amazon game tonight. So I'll remind you that you can hear sat on the pregame show beginning at 3 o'clock right here on SportsNet 650. Pre-game, post-game, actual game all right here. Sat's going to join us at 8 a.m. for some Canucks talk. Finally, also at 8 a.m. We are giving away our final pair of Chris Stapleton tickets.

His All-American Road Show comes through this summer, July 22nd at Rogers Arena. Call number 5 at 8 a.m. 604-280650. That number again, 604-280650. Call it number 5 this morning. We'll get a pair of tickets to see Chris Stapleton this summer. That's it. That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? I missed it? You missed that?

What? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training, visit them online at BCCSA.com. For better or worse, we are going to start with the Vancouver Canucks and their 5-0-0 loss in Toronto at Scotia Bank Arena on Saturday. Quick recap for you. Thatcher Demko allowed three goals on six shots, then got hurt.

Kevin Lankin and out. Canucks go on to surrender two more goals to lose five nothing. Adam Foote said after the game that Demko will be placed on IR. That means that the Canucks lost their starting goalie are 04 and 2 in their last six, are winless on this road trip and now sit alone, dead last in the National Hockey League, two points behind the 31st place Winnipeg Jets. Now something interesting happened, not during this game, but in the aftermath. There was a lot of anger and frustration from the fan base following a pathetic 5-0 loss to Toronto on national television on Saturday night.

There was also a lot of pushback of and questioning of that anger and frustration. The pushback, it seemed anyway, centered around a particular line of questioning. Why are Canucks fans mad? Isn't this what people want? Are they losing the wrong way for you? Canucks fans can never be happy along those lines, as if the tank or what some people think is a tank isn't stomached by the fan base.

The question was, why is everybody so mad? And I'll take it from there. Why am I still mad? I'm okay with the result, okay. But I wrote this down last night because I wanted to organize my thoughts. I think there are two big reasons. The first reason I'm mad. Here's the first reason I am mad.

Please don't tell the newspapers. I am mad. There is a lot of baggage that comes with. being a Canucks fan for the last decade or so. There are significant trust issues between the team and the fan base. And I think you can go back to 2014, which is over a decade now. When Trevor Linden and Jim Benning were hired and they said it was a team that could be turned around in a hurry.

Eventually, Trevor Linden realized that it was going to require a more patient approach and he ended up leaving the organization because they disagreed with his assessment of the situation. The Canucks have always, well not always, for the last decade or so, they've come across like they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to build a team for the future,

but also win now. In the NHL, those are for the most part opposing forces. build a team for the future, but also win now. Opposing forces. So for the last decade, we've seen them tradeaway draft picks and waste cap space signing veterans that haven't gotten them anywhere.

Year after year, they've bled assets. In the meantime, and I think this is a big one, they've acted like their critics don't know what they're talking about, that they don't know what goes into building a winning team. There's a famous quote from Jim Benning back in the day when he talked about analytics and it was right after the Eric Grantson trade and he was, he just couldn't believe that people could

disagree with the Eric Garbranson trade. Well, we all know how the Eric Grantson trade went. And I think that's a big part of this. The arrogance that has been demonstrated at times, the dismissiveness, the sensitivity to the criticism. And now they find themselves dead last in the NHL. Dead last. Not because they went into the season trying to be bad.

No, they're just bad, bad. In fact, they're so bad that their captain and best player said, he didn't want to be on the team anymore. At the end of last season, their head coach said, he didn't want to be on the team anymore. So that's one reason I'm mad. They're bad, but they're not bad intentionally. And I've been watching the same show for over a decade now.

It's getting exhausting. You dare to criticize the philosophy. You turn out to be right and people call you negative. The second reason I'm mad. This team now has some toxic. assets on the books. You know what toxic assets are? I don't really.

Halford, do you remember the company Enron? I'm familiar with them. They had toxic assets on the books. Now, they tried to hide them. And when people figured it out, the company went bankrupt. Ooh, that's bad. The connects aren't trying to hide the contracts of Elias Pedersen, Brock Besser, Thatcher Demko, maybe a few others.

But it's fair to wonder if the value of those contracts isn't negative. Not zero, but negative. Zero would be better. I'll give you an example of a negative value contract. Oliver Ekman Larson when he was on the Canucks. The Canucks actually acquired him. Yeah. Then his value turned very negative, despite giving up quite a bit to get him.

So what are the Canucks going to do with these guys? Are they going to bleed even more assets to get rid of them? Are they going to just keep them and hope they turn it around? Well, here's the problem with that. And by the way, I hope they're not negative assets, right? I hope they're not. Maybe they can move them for something. Who knows?

Sure. But if they are and they decide to keep them, here's the problem with that. The Canucks are trying to build a good culture. and unhappy, overpaid, sour-faced-looking veterans are not conducive to that goal. Jim Rutherford says he wants good veterans that can mentor the up-and-coming players. In what world is Elias Pedersen a good mentor? The team itself, the team itself, has taken issue with his practice habits. And many other things, by the way.

There has never been any indication that the team considers him a good leader or a role model for the younger players. I'm mad at everyone for the Pedersen situation, not just management. I'm mad at them, though. I'm mad at Pedersen and himself. I'm mad at J.T. Miller. I'm mad at the coaching staff that couldn't figure it out. It's just a bad situation. And so those are my two reasons that I'm still angry.

And I would love to hear your thoughts on this. They're valid. They're very valid. But can I ask you kind of an awkward question, Halford? Yes. Okay. I don't have great solutions to the Canucks other than it's going to take a few years. Right?

That's my only solution. And you just got to switch things over. That's my only thing. Right? It's a decent solution, but it'll be tough to pull off. I get it. And I know it's not a guarantee. Yes.

But in the meantime, am I a bad? person that at this point, God, I kind of want my pound of flesh for what has happened to the connects. Like I, I, I do. I don't. I do like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, or what about, what about, what about just, you're a vengeful person. Right. That's different. What about just, not that different. Just an acknowledgement that poor decisions have been made to lead us to this point. And that the overall philosophy of the organization, that's, for over a decade now has been a defective philosophy.

I'm not asking for one of those, you know, those Japanese CEO apologies where they get up and they bow and they just like apologize and they wail and they scream. And that would be awesome. I would like, I would like to see it. Yeah. Let him not, I'm not demanding it.

But it still doesn't seem like the Canucks, the management truly understands. why the fans are so frustrated, they haven't really taken the time to listen to the fan base. They act like the current plan, and this goes for whenever, they act like the current plan has always been the plan, even when the evidence suggests otherwise. And I realize that it's very difficult to admit mistakes. Believe me, I do. But I do think it might be necessary to regain the trust of this.

is fan based simply an acknowledgement like, yeah, we've, we've kind of blown it on a bunch of situations. Yeah. We really have. I've thought about this, about the second part of your notion here, which is, is it not time for someone within the organization to just put a hand up and be like, our bad, this was wrong? We recognize that and we're going to go in a different direction.

You're not going to love this, but it's not going to. going to happen. I don't think it's not going to happen. It is not going to happen. I don't know why. By that, I know why they won't do it. It's because part of it is hubris for sure,

which is it's not just the arrogance leading to your downfall, but it's also the complete lack of recognition that that's what led to the downfall. They'll never, that that's like an organizational ethos. I think the other part of it is the decision makers, genuinely believe, I can't believe I was saying, genuinely believe that they got handed a raw

deal and that things were out of their control. So when you pointed to their best player wanting to leave, the counter to that would be like, well, he was going to leave anyway because he wanted to go play with his brothers. And when the head coach left, it was, well, there was

nothing we could have done to keep him here because he wanted to go and coach in Philadelphia, which is where he's a folk hero. And all of it is see-through and flimsy and really more of an excuse than an actual explanation. Spin. But when you're in the business of trying to keep your job and trying to answer for moves that don't work, oftentimes it's a lot easier and more effective to blame outside influences

than to look inward and say, we screwed up. Because unfortunately, sometimes when you acknowledge that and you say, hey, we screwed up, we made a mistake, you lose your job. Yeah. Well, another guy that's taking a lot of heat right now, and I think is evidence of mistakes made by management is Marcus Pedersen, whose game looks awful right now. And credit to him for him, credit to him for him dropping the gloves against Max

Stomie. He's clearly not a fighter. That was a bad situation. But, you know, the Kinex gave up a mid-first-round pick for him. And then they've signed him to another one of these contracts where he's got no trade protection and maybe that, maybe you add that to the list of, you know, toxic assets that the Canucks have where you might have to give something up to get off that contract. Now, well, here to me. My main concern really is around the three guys, Pedersen, Besser, and Demko.

And I think it's some symbolism there too because those guys have been part of the Canucks for so long that to me when I watch them play and I would say especially Pedersen and Besser I don't get to watch Demko play because he's hurt much He's hurt a lot, a lot. But Pedersen and Besser, like I just, like I'm done with it. I'm done with it.

I've watched it for too long and, you know, I'm watching them on that power play against Toronto. And I'm like, is this, is this it? Like, are these are our headline offensive players where it looks impossible to get scoring chances on a four on three? Well, let's take, let's take the conversation back to something that you brought up earlier, which is Jim Rutherford saying that these guys that while they may not be performing great on the ice right now are still a very good veteran players that are willing to be good mentors for the young players on the team. I got major issue with that. Now, I'll say this about Marcus Pedersen

is taking the beating that he did on Saturday night and going out and fighting Domi when he's really not the guy that should be doing that. At the very least, very least, he went out and did it. Like, that's something that a vet should do. Even if it didn't turn out great. Like, he almost understood the assignment. Yeah.

He's like, someone's going to have to do something here. and I guess it's going to have to be me. I think it's an indictment, or dare I say, indictment of the rest of the team that it's left to Marcus Pedersen to get tuned up in a 5-0-0 loss in Toronto to do something of anything because there are so many guys right now that are just going through the motions.

And that's on the ice and that's answering the questions afterwards. It's all of it. There are a bunch of highly paid veteran presences on this team that I would say are the worst kind of mentors you could have around young people, players. Because right now, if I'm a young player for the Vancouver Canucks, you know what?

I'm learning about the NHL that you can make upwards of $7 million a year and just kind of coast through the regular season. And there's really no retribution. Your ice time doesn't get docked. You don't get dropped from the lineup. And you don't get shipped out of town because you got a no movement clause. I'm learning about the business of the NHL from the Vancouver Canucks right now. It looks pretty comfortable for some of the older, more established players.

So you can't tell me. that any of this was the plan to tank. As you put it earlier in your rant, they're bad because they're bad. They're not bad because they're designed to be bad. This is 70% of the roster that they put together for this season to try and make the playoffs.

Can you fathom all these veterans with Term back on the team next season? Until they start moving out veterans with Term, I won't truly believe they're in a rebuild. Even though they do their PR videos and post them to social media and they, you know, try and get their messaging across, you know, until a Besser or a Pedersen or, I don't know, Demko or Lankan or, God, there's so many, so many of them. Garland, DeBrusk, Marcus Patterson, like, am I forgetting any of them? Like until a couple, two or three of these guys are traded,

to me, you still got the same DNA there. You can introduce a bunch of younger players to the mix. But like, these are the veterans you want your guys learning from? No, but those guys? And to go back to another part of your soliloquy, like that's part of the reason why this was not the plan. Are they the worst team in the end? NHL.

Yep. Clearly. I think definitively, if any, someone might argue for Winnipeg, but the Conucks are the worst team in the NHL. If you were to ask a straw pole of 10 people that follow the

NHL closely, I'd say 8 would say without question. Well, they're trending down now. But this is done with, again, a large percentage of the roster that was built to try and make the playoffs this year to keep Quinn Hughes around. Also, what you're

seeing now, the very very delicate tap dance from Rutherford of well we can't just give these guys away we have to try and keep them around part of that is what you were talking about with potentially toxic assets where between the lack of production the listless play which is the eye test stuff and the fact most of them are armed with no movement clauses you're not moving them out what are you going to do right now what are you going to do with, I'd say, well, three or four of those contracts. Are you going to give them away for pennies on the dollar?

That doesn't aid a rebuild. I'd be okay with some of them. You'd be okay with it, but you'd be okay with it because you're mostly out of spite, right? You just want them gone. I do. Right? I do.

And I promise, I make a promise that if they were to get rid of those guys and the return was bad, I wouldn't complain about asset management. No. But if you were. But if you go to your boss, you know, I got, the good news is I got rid of all those bad contracts that I signed. Yeah. And your boss is like, that's fantastic.

How did you do it? He's like, we had to give away a bunch more assets to get rid of them. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people. This is Port Moody, Ollie. Good morning, guys. I would love to hear you guys come up with franchisor sport where the management team has admitted mistakes in the past. I'll wait. Thank you.

Juice from the Pomo. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's dangerous. sometimes. To do that, you get fired. Mike Gillis kind of admitted that, you know, at the end of his tenure, he was like, I'm sick of, you know, I can't remember what. It was like sick of doing something that he didn't agree with, basically. Hey, I'll tell you. A lot of that was hiring torts. He was fired. And Trevor Linden said, I don't know if we should be doing this. And there was an amicable departure there. So yeah, it is. So a lot of this philosophy, let's, let's be honest, it's coming from the top. It's coming from ownership. But it's not. But it's not. But it's not. But it's. It's not completely foreign or uncommon. For example, and I know this is a coach, not management, but the same logic applies. After a very disappointing 20-25 season in which they missed the playoffs, the Detroit Lions put Dan Campbell up on the podium

two days after their season was done. And he was asked point blank by a reporter what grade he would give himself for this year. And he said, a freaking F. He just said, I was terrible. I didn't do a good enough job. We missed the playoffs. going backwards. The response from the fan base and from the organization was important because they said,

here's the guy that understands that it wasn't good enough this year, but we've got the faith in him to build it back and to get it back, right? And Dan Campbell put himself out there because it could have been, well, Dan, we also agree you deserve an F for this season and we're letting you go and we're going to get a new coach. Yeah. And do that. There's a risk involved with all this stuff. But what you're talking about is...

He knows he has some equity, though, with the fan base, Dan Campbell. Right. But that shouldn't be the deciding factor in all this. If you've got equity with the fan base. What it should be is if you're going to preach accountability as an organization, we're going to hold our coaches accountable and we're going to hold our players accountable, then theoretically the same thing should exist with executives. I personally don't think that there's anything wrong with acknowledging that you've made a mistake.

If you're genuinely committed to fixing it, But I also know that in this league and with certain organizations, that acknowledgement just will never happen because this is a sign of weakness. Yeah. It's a sign that you've acknowledged that you might not have all the answers and that you might be fallible. And that's a problem when you exist in that kind of culture. Because then all you do is you just look for excuses why everything went wrong.

Then you're just spinning. Spin, spin, spin, spin. And then you're just like, well, it's not my fault. It's on my fault. Hughes has two brothers that also play in the NHL. It's not my fault that the flyers open up a job for Rick Tocket. It's not my fault that my Vez and the caliber goal that keeps getting hurt. It's all someone else's, it's all the cosmos and the moons and the stars all aligned to conspire against us. It's fate and everything else. And it's left us with this, dead last in the

NHL on January 12th, 2026. You're listening to the best of Halford. and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Our next guest, doing great work on the road, by the way. Go check out all of his work at Sportsnet.com.C.A. Ian McIntyre, Kinnock's reporter, joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, I'm Mack. How are you? I'm doing well. I know that you guys appreciate me coming on, so I don't need to seek compliments. But the sacrifices I make for you is I've come to the Bell Center early to do this call. And now I'm accidentally watching the Canadians morning skate.

But because for the sake of radio, not only am I here in the bowl, I've moved down to the corner near the glass so that you get authentic hockey sounds during this segment. I was going to say that I can hear the sounds in the background. Hit the net, Habs. Yeah, jeez. Sure is that Knox practice? Yeah. By the way, you know you're in a hockey town.

I just watched a puck. rim over the glass into the netting and then it clattered between the netting in the glass down onto the dasher in the seats and landed about a foot beside a security guy standing under it who did not flinch not only did he not like quickly pick out the puck and look for somebody to give it to

or take it home he didn't even move it's like puck hockey so habs are skating right now Kucks are going to skate at 8.30 this morning from the Santrabelle. We should talk about the Vancouver Canucks here because there's a lot that's going on in the midway point of this road trip.

You had a interview after the debacle in Toronto with President of Hockeyops, Jim Rutherford. What was your biggest takeaway from what was a very expansive interview and very well written, by the way, with the President of Hockeyops? Yeah, I'm not sure that there was anything new. Of course, you always wonder

if there's going to be something earth-shattering out of these interviews and there wasn't. But I think what I wanted to really get at is how broadly are they talking trade? Because they sent out that memo, or as they would say in Montreal, a communique to other teams back in November that their UFAs were for sale. And, of course, we've been talking about Kiefer Sherwood since then. But I know that they've had calls on other players. and I wanted to get a sense. So what do they do with those calls?

They just move on, or are they serious calls? And I guess my takeaway would just be that Rutherford confirming that, yes, they're listening to everything, that everything is on the table. And he didn't name names. And I'm just going to go ahead and say, well, they're not going to trade Uyam or V-Lander. But everything is on the table. They're willing to listen. And, you know, I think.

I think, you know, there are going to be more trades with this team before the deadline. There's not going to be anything like Quinn Hughes, but I don't think it's out of the question that there's another major trade or two beyond just the U.S.As. Did he express any anger or disappointment with how this season has played out? The one thing that, you know, if I own the team and I was the one cutting the checks, I'd be watching guys like Pedersen and Besser and being like,

what am I paying you guys for? Yeah. Well, I think they're all disappointed. I don't know about anger because I can't, you know, I'm not in his position. So I don't know if that's an emotion that enters into it,

but they're all disappointed, of course, and they're frustrated. And I think on nights like Saturday and especially maybe even this road trip, I think there's a degree of embarrassment. I know there is with the players. You know, I talk to them more than I talk to Rutherford or Patrick Alvin. But, yeah, everyone in the organization is disappointed.

I'm going to list off a bunch of players here. These are all veterans with term. Elias Pedersen, Brock Bessor, Jake DeBrasse, Connor Garland, Philipperonic, Marcus Pedersen, Thatcher Demko, and Kevin Lankinen. when Rutherford says we're going to listen on anybody, can you handicap the chances of them moving one or two or maybe three of these guys with term?

Because I think a lot of fans are like, why is there the loyalty to some of these veterans that are not performing for this team, despite the fact that they've been rewarded with a long-term commitment? Yeah. Well, I mean, he has talked about, as you know, he's talked about or I think yesterday, going back to Mike's question about the takeaway, he did explain what he thought a hybrid meant, which is they're not shopping everyone, but they're basically listening. And as far as the guys on term, I think there's probably most of those guys they could move if the guy's. agreed to move, but you're obviously selling at distressed prices. So I think what you could achieve in that is you could clear cap space. I think you could get out of one or two of these

contracts, but I don't think you're going to, you know, get anything back. And in some cases, you know, let's say Kevin Lankinen, clearly nobody's taking Kevin Lankin at four and a half million. and maybe no one's taking catcher Demko at eight and a half for the next three years, but I do think there's a chance of that. But with some of the guys, you'd have to retain salary as well. And then I think it becomes a question for them is, well, what is what is the value? And clearly they're clearly, even though Rutherford said yesterday, the fact of the matter is we are in a rebuild. clearly they're not just going to try to strip it down.

There isn't going to be, as you, Jason and a lot of other people would like to see, you know, the full on rebuild where you just get rid of, you just clear the debts, right? And you get what you can get. I don't think they're going to do that, but I do think that they're looking at moving on from another player too. And, you know, I will say that Elias Pedersen's name, was seriously discussed in trade. And this isn't new. A lot of people have reported this.

It was discussed in trade at times in the last couple of years, or certainly last season. It was two calendar years ago now coming up on two calendar years. He signed that contract, which of course coincides with his great decline. I think a lot of people thought, well, once July 1st came along and the no move, kicked in, that they're now wed for better or worse, the Canucks and Pedersen. I don't know that that's the case. I think that they will check again to see what the market is and what it would cost, I think. I think even with Pedersen's struggles, we know how desperate the league is for centers.

We know how desperate the league is for top-line players. It's what the Canucks will be, are looking for as well. I think there's probably still a market for Pedersen. I don't know about 116 whether you'd have to retain, but I don't think that's out of the question. That would be one thing I would say that's a name to keep in mind as we go forward here. For the listeners that didn't get to hear any of the post-game media availability or the quotes coming out of the room,

can you let everyone know just how disappointed and upset and frustrated players were with Saturday's loss in Toronto because I think everyone understands that in order for the tank to occur, you need to lose a lot more games than you win. So mission accomplished on that front. But there is a way that you lose that can be maybe damaging

or maybe beyond the norm. Can you describe from, you know, Drew O'Connor calling it really disappointing to Kiefer Sherwood saying it's unacceptable. The veteran guys in the room, just how disappointing that result was on Saturday in Toronto. Yeah, I think, I think they were embarrassed.

And I think they understand, yes, losing is one thing, but you can lose in a lot more noble way, honorable way, than the Canucks lost in Toronto. And for that matter, in Detroit, where, you know, they lost 5'1. These guys are, they understand what's going on. They're realists. even though as players, and obviously I'm generalizing here, and not every guy is the same, of course,

but as players, they don't get to this level without being fiercely competitive and confident in themselves and have almost universally at every level an overriding belief in the group in the team. And so even when things are going on like have gone on this year, in Vancouver, there's still part of them that believes they could be a playoff team. I know that sounds ridiculous. But that's how players, that's her players are wired.

But they've also, especially the guys who have been around a few years, and you mentioned the three that I talked to after the game, Drew O'Connor, Keith or Sherwood, Marcus Pedersen, they also are smart enough to understand what's going on with this pivot or transition or rebuild or whatever you want. and I think they're realistic about what this team can achieve right now. I mean, they've got three defensemen, 21 and under, and they've got four first or second year forwards who should be in the bottom half of the lineup,

but with the injuries they have, they find themselves at times in the top half of the lineup. They're very aware of maybe what the ceiling is for the team right now, but those other things that I talked about that they're wired with, that pride and that competitiveness and that belief in the team take a beating on nights like Saturday, and it upsets players. And so I think they were embarrassed by the score. They were really unhappy and disappointed in themselves with the effort.

And, you know, I don't know what's going to happen tonight. It seems like the connexer, we've seen what we thought was the Nader. couple of times and certainly that game on Saturday feels like the bottom so far of this season if that wasn't the Quinn Hughes trade it wouldn't surprise me if they come back and I'm not picking a Canucks one tonight

but surely surely the goodness they've got to be better tonight than they were on Saturday and I think they will be right so like Marcus Pedersen for example we talked about him he goes out and he's at a rough time this year and he goes out and he's fighting Max Domi which He probably shouldn't have done, but he did it,

and you respect the fact that he stood up and took a licking, quite frankly. And then in your article he says to you afterwards, I think the most telling quote from him was, I think we deserve to give each other more than this. I'm going to go out and suggest that when he says something like that, he's probably not talking about Liam Ogrin and D.P.D. and Z. Buiam, he's probably looking at his fellow veterans and saying, we deserve to give each other more than this.

I think it's a condemnation of the other. veterans on this team. When Pedersen's out there getting tuned up in a fight in a 5-0-0 loss and he's the one in the room saying we need to give each other more than the other guys can't score on what 20 minutes of power play time? Or do or put in the shift that he put in quite frankly.

Yeah and I would add to that I think I think that's a fairly good perspective on it. Like I'd also say he's probably talking about himself as well. Sure. That he knows he knows that he has to do more for for the group

and be better. Like I say, the guys, the guys understand. It's one thing to lose. It's another to be embarrassed. And nobody wants to be embarrassed. And, you know, with Pedersen as well, I'll just say this. And he's taking a lot of heat, right? Like, he's the guy right now.

You can say what you like about whether it was good or bad that they traded the pick they got from the Rangers for Philip Ronick. but Roanick has been exactly what they wanted and more. For sure. And he's a first pairing defenseman. Pedersen is the guy who hasn't yet lived up to what they thought they were getting, which was a really good matchup second pairing guy. And sometimes he's that, but a lot of the times he hasn't been that this year. And I think he would recognize he needs to play better.

But in what he did on Saturday, in fighting domi, you know how rare that is for a guy to go into a fight knowing he's probably going to lose but doing it because you know whether it's penance for himself whether it's to get the team going he's willing to do that and so i looked i looked back on on hockeyfights dot com because i thought you know i figured well how many fights as marcus peterson had you actually had like 10 or 12 fights oh but you you look at go i encourage people to do this Look at who he has fought. I mean, he fought, he fought Domi before where Domi basically jumped him.

He fought Nick Delorey. Wow. He fought Jonah Gadget. He's fought a bunch of tough guys. So I think this is probably something that he has done for his team in his career, knowing that he may take a loss, but maybe in the end it's going to help the team. And I do think, and listen, I'm not saying that that's more important than, you know, the five-on-five play, because clearly it isn't.

But I am saying that there is some character to this guy, and I can understand why the Canucks believe that if they can just tune up his game a little, this is a character, leadership kind of guy that they want young players to be around. One more before we let you go. As a writer, always looking for a story. Do you do the Thatcher Demko story or is the fear that it's already been written and this is just another chapter that sounds awfully a lot like the same chapters that preceded it? Yeah, I'm afraid there is a lot of sameness to it. And as far as the Thatcher Demko story, like until,

and the conducts don't make the injured players available, I don't think there's anything any of us really have to add until Thatcher wants to talk about it. and you know he's a very very bright very thoughtful guy he's not first in line he's not putting his hand up when they're looking for volunteers to talk to the media but you know it's there is a sameness to it and it's it's depressing is not the right word it's discouraging right because he's so important to this team we saw the way he started the year until his first injury

that he was, when he's on, he clearly, like with, there's no argument. When he's on, he's clearly one of the best goalies in the NHL. And he's so important to this team,

but just can't stay healthy. And, you know, that's, another blow for Thatcher Demco. It's another blow for the team. It's a boost. It's a boost for,

you know, the, where they are in transition. their chances to draft higher. But it is, it is discouraging because, you know, we signed the extension. They still have such,

such expectations for him, but he just can't stay healthy. And him not being able to stay healthy also affects him, I think, when he returns because he's not really able to get rolling. I mean, his numbers, the last two years, forget the games played. I mean, he was an 8, 8, 9 last season.

he's in 8, 9, 7 this season, you know, it's really hard to get sharp at the NHL level when, you know, every little stint that you have is broken up by injury. Yeah, I mean, he's better, we know he's better than 8, 97, which has been skewed by nights like Saturday. And I think the other time he was hurt against Winnipeg, if I'm not mistaken, did he not give up three on six in the first period there as well? Something like that, yeah. I think it's just so hard for really anybody to come back in season. It's one thing if you're like he had the season he had last year to get ready over the summer

and then come out and be sharp right out of right out of the gate like he was this year. Although I remember talking to him just before that ill-fated Washington game, which they won, but they lost two of their three centers. He was even surprised a little bit about how good he was so. Worley saying it was the best he's played in two years and that he didn't play in his words quote I didn't play a good game last year that's how he felt about it but then when he came back from whether that was a groin or whatever it was it kept him out a month from from early November into December he he was actually outstanding on the road track like his his first few games

but then his play deteriorated after that and I think in hindsight, there was a lot of emotion that followed that trade. There was a lot of sudden clarity and motivation for players that helped them through that, you know, when they swept New York and then beat Boston in a shootout for their season high four-game winning street. And since then, I think there's just been a crash. There's been a crash. And I'm not just talking about Demko here. There's been a crash in emotions, wavering. in sort of mental focus

and there's been a crash in performance and that's where they are. That's where they are right now trying to stop this crash. And this was great of you to do. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us today. Great rinkside sounds as well. Enjoy the game tonight as much

as you can. We'll do this again soon. Yeah, it's always a great place to come and watch a game or just rest from having as I had did last night eat a smoked meat sandwich with poutine and feel like I'm a boa constrictor that just consumed an elephant.

I gotta go find a rock to lie down on for the next three days. Did you bring the tums with you? I would need the tums for that. Oh no, I'll be going to the shoppers drug mart for that. Be well, Ian, thank you. All right, see you guys. See you later. Ian McIntyre on Sportsnet 650,

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Does it actually say that? Yes, and yard at a time concrete. It's the yacht. Y-A-A-A-A-T. The key ingredient is cream. To the phone lines we go, Satyar Shah joins us now on the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Sat, what do you say to the people that will retort, you know, well, people wanted them to lose, they wanted them to tank. This is tanking.

How can you complain? Well, like, part of me understands a little bit what they mean in terms of like, yeah, they're losing. they're 32nd right now. And the best part about this weekend was the Out of Town scoreboard. Calgary won, Columbus one, Winnipeg one. So all these teams that you're trying to jockey the position to get the best picks, they won. So the connection got a little bit of a separation.

And that's ultimately the best thing for this season. But at the same time, like, you can't just gloss over how you got here. And also what's going to happen next? And I think what's most important is that any plan is you're believing in a plan. And you're also presenting a plan in a way. where people can accept it, understand it, and really buy into what's going to happen next. And that's been muddy,

and I know to try to clear it up yesterday, which I think actually was a decent first step, like at least try to clarify what you're trying to do, you know, give rid of the word hybrid, talk about you are rebuilding. But ultimately, it comes down to the actions from this point on too, right? And you can say all the right things, but then are you going to try to expedite things in a year?

Like, what are you going to do this off-season? But I think the people that mentioned that, they also have to understand that it's been a lot of misery to get to this point. And we heard a lot of similar things be said a few years ago or not a few years ago, or like many years ago, and we ended up in the same spot. So you can't just separate losing from the overall plan because the plan in which you are losing is going to determine whether you get out of this losing and actually have a chance to compete in a few years or whether you try to expedite things.

So I think you can't just dismiss one or the other. I get it. Like, yeah, they're 31st, 32nd. You want them to have the high draft pick. But at the same time, what are you going to do from this point on? That's going to ensure that this losing is going to, I want to say sustain for many years, but you have the right plan. You're not trying to expedite things.

And you don't hear the same things or see the same actions we saw a couple years ago or a few years ago when they talked about, oh, you know, we're trying to do this on the fly. We're trying to get better quickly. We need to, you know, fill the age gap. We need to have players that are 23, 24 because we don't have enough, you know, young players. We can't put all the prospects in together at the same time. So we hear all those same things that you heard, you know, under Jim Benning and Trevor Lin,

and you can excuse people for being a little skeptical. I'm going to ask you a tough prediction question right now. Elias Pedersen, Brock Besser, and Thatcher Demko. How many of those guys are back on the team next season? Man. Okay. I think at most one is gone. One is gone?

I think, I say most one is gone. Oh, at most one. Oh, at most one is going. Yeah, at most. But I think, I don't think Brock wants to go anywhere. Like, really, I think, like, I think you're going to have to really

force the issue with him to move, to waive his no trade clause. I think Demko, honestly, I know they talk about Demko all the time. I still wondered if he was healthy this year and he got to the deadline if somebody put a good offer in front of them, that that made them think.

Because, you know, you look at their pipeline. They can say whatever they want publicly, but you have Tolapilo who you want to see what he can do, for instance. You drafted that. like Medvedit kids. You have Lankan and signed long term. You know, even if you're thinking to turn this around in two years,

what do you want to be good for the final year of Demko's contract and who knows what he's going to look like? So I think there is, and there was at least an openness to think about this. But now that he's had his latest injury, like, who's trading for him, guys? Like, who's trading for Thachadadumko? Like, whatever team that's starving for a goaltender

that needs to win right now is going to be like, yeah, let's trade for a guy who's making 8.5 or three more years that we can't rely on come postseason. Like, I just don't know if you're moving him. And the Pedersen one, I think, is the one to watch most closely between now and the off season. And, you know, they can say what they want about him in terms of we still believe in the player, we still believe this. I don't think you can get past how he's played on the ice still.

And I still think that if somebody comes to them and gives them something that makes sense that they would do it, the question of Pedersen is, how much is you going to use of no trade clause? You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.