Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 11/28/24

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Mike and Jason look back at the previous day in sports, plus they talk yesterday's 'Nucks loss to the Pens with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Here's Russ with a step on Myers, right wing to the Vancouver line, he scores! Well, we just get the goals, you know, and then get a couple of goal melts that just found their way in. They claw back to make it 5-4, but ultimately fall by that score. Yeah, I like the battle back from us, but we can't come up with an effort like that to start and expect to win a game. As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Good morning, Vancouver.

6-0-1 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. It is Alfred and his brother at Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver.

Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you. Hello, hello. And intern Spencer, good morning to you as well. Good morning. Alfred and Bradford in the Morning is brought to you by Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you. Hello, hello. And intern Spencer, good morning to you as well. Good morning. Alfred and

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Guest list today begins at 7 o'clock. Yeah, that's right. One hour of uninterrupted Halbro before we get to Thomas Drance. Not in his usual 8 a.m. position. 7 a.m. for the Drancer this morning. We'll look back on the Canucks 5-4 loss in Pittsburgh. We'll talk about the state of the Canucks blue line as well with Drancer. He wrote about that for The Athletic. You can hear him on Canucks talk as well.

730, James Sharman from the footy prime podcast is going to join us. Andrew and Victoria, here's your early warning. 730 soccer talk, big news for Canadian soccer this morning, Jason, Canada achieved its highest ever FIFA ranking. 31st in the world.

We're 31st. We're 31st. The chant just rolls off the tongue. It's so natural. We're coming for you, Hungary. Currently 30th in the world. And forget about you, Serbia. We got you in the rear view because they're 32nd.

Watch out, Laszlo Panaflex. So we're going to talk to James Sharman about that. We'll talk about City. We'll talk about Herdman. We'll talk about Sartini. All at 7.30 with James Sharman. 8 o'clock, we're going to go to Abbotsford. Brandon Astle, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver,

or the Abbotsford Canucks, sorry. How about those Abbotsford Canucks? Winners of four straight. And they got their goaltending sorted out. That's going to be a theme today. Can we have one of them? Maybe. Maybe we can have both. Ty Young, Nikita Tolopilo.

Four goals allowed in those four wins, by the way, I might add. Start the 20-year-old. That's what I said. How many goals did the Canucks allow yesterday? Five, right? In their last four games, all wins, the Abbotsford Canucks have allowed four. I was wondering if Darren A could play for C-Labs. He's a big guy. He's a healthy scratch. I was wondering if Darren A could play for Seelov.

He's a big guy. He's a healthy scratch. He's a big guy, yeah. Right? Time to the net. Taka does think that Seelov isn't playing big enough. Get a bigger guy in there. We're going to wait for Laddie for this.

His movement's a little choppy, but man, he's big. All right. That's the guest list today. Brandon Astle with an Abbotsford Canucks review at 8. James Sharman for a little footy talk at 7.30. And then Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver at 7 o'clock. That's what's happening on the program today. Oh, before I forget, you mentioned it in the intro.

Happy Thanksgiving, America. I hope everyone enjoys their day of football in Turkey. We won't be doing a ton of football talk today because, quite frankly, the games aren't that great. We've got a lot of hockey talk to get into. So without further ado, Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened?

You missed that? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies

the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. Brian Russ, rusty, had a goal and two assists. The Pittsburgh Penguins jumped out to a 4-1 lead, held on for a 5-4 win against the Canucks at PPG Paints in Pittsburgh on Wednesday night. Yeah, I guess the Canucks made us keep watching that thing and they made it

interesting in the third period because the Penguins aren't exactly a lock it down type of team, but it was too little too late after a brutal first period put the Canucks in a big early hole and it started

with Artie Seelov's overplaying a point shot, got too aggressive, got caught out of position, lost his net, and the Penguins were able to find the net. Not for the first time last night. The Canucks did tie it on a nice second effort by Atu Ratu, but then came the defensive breakdowns.

On Pittsburgh's second goal, Carson Soucy chased the puck area all the way to the point. Then Noah Juleson did some chasing of his own leaving Ricard Raquel all alone in front you can't leave Ricard Raquel all alone in front cannot expect to get punished on Pittsburgh's third goal it was Soucy and Juleson again the dynamic duo this time on the PK Soucy couldn't deny the pass in front, and Juleson couldn't clear it. You know, Seelov probably wasn't looking big enough, according to Rick Tockett in there. Pittsburgh's fourth goal was an outright structural collapse. Eric Carlson hit a wide open, and I mean wide open,

Sidney Crosby with a stretch pass. Crosby dished it to Brian Rust, who easily scored into the open net. This time, it was Tyler Myers who got caught flat-footed through the neutral zone leaving Hughes to play Crosby and Besser to take Rust spoiler alert Besser could not take Rust and so the Penguins took a 4-1 lead into the second period where they quickly made it 5-1 on another goal by Rustyers again didn't look great neither did branstrom neither did silovs of course as i mentioned the canucks were playing the penguins uh so you knew things could still get interesting which they did suitor scored to make it 5-2 hughes went coast to coast to make

it 5-3 then pd scored late to make it 5-4 but as batch Batch said, that was as close as the Canucks got. Yeah, the refs made a couple weak calls late on Garland and Ratu, but the Canucks dug their own grave with that horrendous first period. Okay, so there's going to be a lot of talk about goaltending today on the show. Ian McIntyre, our embedded Sportsnet.ca writer,

was on the road with the team. Let's play the audio first because Rick Tockett's postgame remarks were very brief. It was just over two and a half minutes in length. And about half of it was iMask. iMac. iMask. iMac.

iMask is a totally different thing. Asking specifically about Seelov's Lankanen and the issue where it's becoming more and more likely that Seelov's might be unplayable. I'm just saying it early, 6.07 in the morning. Let's hear from the head coach and our very own Ian McIntyre in this back and forth. It's about a minute worth of audio. Rick Tockett and IMAC following

a 5-4 loss to Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh on Wednesday night. Yeah, he's struggling. He's got to battle. He's got to get bigger in the net and battle. It's the NHL. It is what it is. You's got to battle. He's got to get bigger in the net and battle. It's the NHL. It is what it is. He's got to work tomorrow and get his game. You said, I can't remember which of his games you played where you talked about his body language

because he looked like he was down on himself. Do you see some of that? Does he look like a guy right now who's not getting confidence? Yeah, it's the goal mouth stuff that seems to be going in all year and I think he's just got to get a little bit bigger in there. I don't know. I have to talk to Marco, the goalie coach, but it just seems like

I guess when you don't have confidence you sink in your neck. He's got to battle. It's like everybody. When you're struggling, you've got to battle through it. In that respect, does it make it harder to rest Lankanen when you know that he's got to battle. It's like everybody. You know, when you're struggling, you've got to battle through it. In that respect, does it make it harder to rest Lankanen when you know that some part of you is struggling with it? Well, you know, you can't run lengths too much.

You know, we did it earlier on, and we've got to make sure we've got to be careful on that. Was it a consideration to play him back-to-back? No. You know, no. Yeah, that's too much risk for injury. Just so we're clear, the only reason he didn't play last night

is because there was a risk for injury. That was it. It wasn't like they felt like maybe Seeloff's going to give us a start or maybe he's going to give us a good performance or he's earned this one. He was in there because he had to be in there. Well, I think it's also the risk of Lankanen not playing well because talked about them overplaying him or maybe playing him too much and I think that showed in the Islanders game on

November 14th and that was his sixth straight start I think and then Seelovs they were they played three games in four nights so Seelovs going to get one, and he got the Chicago game, and he won that, but, you know, Chicago. Yeah. And then Lankanen was in the very next day for the Predators game, and that was the weekend that the stuff happened with JT Miller. So the focus in hindsight has been about that weekend, but goaltending-wise, Lankanen didn't play well in the Islanders game, and he didn't play well in the Preds game.

And then he got some time off because Seelove's got the Rangers game, which I don't know, he wasn't terrible in, but he allowed four goals and the Canucks lost that one four to three. And then Lankanen came back and he's played well in Ottawa and in Boston. And if you're looking at this road trip now, their next game is Friday it's an afternoon game uh 12 o'clock start our time in Buffalo Lankanen is definitely going to play that one and assuming you know nothing crazy happens like assuming he stays healthy I think he's going to play Sunday in Detroit and he's probably going to play Tuesday in Minnesota if the plan is to play Demko Friday, December 6th, that first game at home, back at home against Columbus.

I hate piling on Archer Seelovs. I really do. Because the Canucks didn't play. Yeah, I don't even think it's worth analyzing that much, to be perfectly honest with you, right now. Like, I, I, I. There's no. So don't.

So don't. So don't pile on. He's not. He shouldn't be in the NHL right now like like i i there's no so don't so don't so don't pile on he's he's not he shouldn't be in the nhl right now he should be in the hl okay but that is a huge problem well yeah i mean this is all this is but this is all a this is all a trickle-down effect from demko being hurt i get that this is all this is this is you know like i i wonder here's a good question to wonder actually if Demko hadn't been hurt would the Canucks have said okay Seelovs you're our backup they probably would have and then they might have been a tough position where they would have been like oh we've got this guy coming back from an injury and we don't want to overplay them because last time we overplayed them and now the backup the other option would be patera which isn't great and then you're tempted once again to overplay demko so

thank god that they did go out and get lankanen not just for the start when demko's out but for the rest of the season when we either don't know how Demko is going to be playing but even if Demko comes back and he's terrific you still don't want to overplay him and the problem when you don't have a trustworthy backup is that you overplay your starter so this is what I'm talking about it's not just about last night in Pittsburgh like let's make this abundantly clear there's a lot going on here one of which is that and imac tweeted it out and wrote about it was the reason he was asking um talking all these questions is that you're getting to the point of the season where silavs might be unplayable like if you put him in you have to go in

on the pretext that you're going to have four goals allowed in the game because that's what the average is right now and i know that there were defensive breakdowns in front of the guy. I've also been a goalie where I have been playing on teams where I'm over my head. It is the worst feeling on the planet where you know that you just can't do the things that are relative to the level of play of the guys in front of you. If you give up four goals a game,

every game that you play in the NHL, something's up. That's it. You're not making saves that you're not supposed to make. You're not making saves that you should make. They scored four last night

in a lousy performance. If you say two of those are directly on Seelov's, at the very least, do the math. You should be in that game maybe getting a point. I mean, the first one overplays a point shot,

leaves his net open on the carom. And then they're like, why don't we just say the fifth one too right now my i don't know what myers was doing and branstrom didn't look very good in that like the the seas parted for rust but we had talked a lot about how many times sea labs has been beaten cleanly yep And that was the example of that. Laddie, what do you think about all this? I had to look at the tape again to see if there was any kind of deflection, but it looked like it was a clean shot off the wing, which is not

good. That's not a good sign when you're being beat from a distance on a clean shot, especially over the glove. Can we point out that Archer Seelabs is six feet, four inches tall? Oh, he's listed at six foot, four inches tall. Whatever the case. Okay, whatever the case.

I know that you hate the analysis of the goalie looks small in there and that he needs to play bigger. But sometimes the eye test, I don't know if it necessarily matches up with the numbers, but there is a case to be made right now that when you see him in net, it's like, I think I'm going to shoot because I feel like my chances are increased because he looks like he's going to have a hard time making this up. My theory is that he got overaggressive on the first goal.

He was like, so he was, and then he was like, oh boy, don't be too aggressive. So he's kind of caught in between being overaggressive or not being aggressive enough. So he's just kind of lost. What do you think about that theory, Laddie? Well, I think on that particular goal, I just saw the replay again. There's no tip or deflection. I think it was a righty coming off the right wing,

and he just didn't set himself up in the right position. He didn't shift over properly. Yeah, that's the fifth goal, the rush goal the rush yeah that's the fifth goal and that's just a mental error for the goaltender right that's just not getting set up positionally correct for a playoff the rush and that's such a i know the canucks did come back eventually but a lot of that is on the penguins like the penguins are terrible man yes like i don't think carlson cares do you see that backhand pass that he made from behind his own net he's just like ah whatever and garland's like thanks buddy i don't know if it's not caring so much as it is like yeah let's try it like one of those you know what was really

frustrating too um as i get caught on yet another aside yes was when garland hunted down carlson and four checked him and then you, like that wasn't a hook. But because Carlson, you know, his battle level isn't that high. Garland wins that battle. And then the ref is like, yeah, okay. I guess he grabbed a stick and then Garland couldn't believe it. He's like, what? Are we not allowed to stick battle anymore in the NHL?

If this guy's not going to try, it doesn't mean I should get a penalty for it. That call was soft. By soft, I mean bad. Not good refereeing in the slightest. I don't even think he got his hands. No. With the first foray into his stick.

If we want to go down the road of things that we don't, because normally here on the Halverd and Breff show, we don't complain about goaltending. We don't complain about officiating but we do complain there was also there was also an awful non-call on um jake the brusque which should have got them to the power play a second period where he was just flat out tackled the front of the net the call on crosby too that raw two guy i mean like however i think the ref was like uh oh it's high sticking no wait it wasn't uh okay it's interference we'll just make something up

on the fly now look with regards to the goaltending i actually i'm kind of with you it's like it's not worth analyzing each individual goal because this is a bigger picture story you bring up a great point with what would have happened if if they hadn't found lincoln and they would have rolled with silavs because the thing here is a lot of people seemed convinced. And to a certain degree, I even was that when he played in the playoffs last year, at the very least, the very least he was capable of being in the national hockey league.

I sound a super high bar. When you backstop a team to game seven of the second round of the playoffs and your end, you know, sort of statement of fact is well i think that's proven that he's good enough to be in the nhl it's not a huge logical leap right yeah he's but you can't play him right now you i don't know how what other way to say it but if you play him you're basically saying dear opponent here are your two points right now j Jeremy Insuri texts in. Yeah, unless you're Chicago. Any chance having Ian Clark being off the ice is affecting C-Labs? I mean, Clark isn't really part of the organization anymore, frankly.

I mean, they can say he's a scout. He's out there scouting. Okay. I mean, he's essentially been banished. Yeah. Well, he's not working with C-Labs at a regular basis, right? I mean, I don't know. But, I mean, we wondered how this would affect the goalies.

Let's see how it affects Demko on a daily basis. I think there's something to it. You know? Can you explain the dynamic that's at play here? Because a lot of people credited Clark last year with not just working with Seelovs, but also maybe finding particular spots or times to get him in and to play him. That's the big thing, I think, not just being off the ice,

which is obviously a major factor as well. But, yeah, there's one less voice in the room for Selahs now. Pushing for him, advising the coach when would be a good time to start him, like you said. I think there's more to it than what we're leaning on here with the Ian Clark adjustment. Because Lankan and Marco Terranius had a relationship pre-existing, correct?

Yes, and he's doing great. And he's working with his goalie coach every day. What a shock. Possibly really exemplifies how important it is to have that symmetry between a goalie coach and a goalie that know each other and have a history of working together.

Terranius is always like, Arthur? No, it's not Arthur. And I feel bad. I don't feel comfortable with this relationship. I feel bad positioning it this way, but it's hard to look at and be like, well, if you've worked with a guy before,

you've obviously got a coexisting relationship as opposed to a new guy that you have to build that with. And that's exactly what's going on right now. And then look at the numbers. Numbers play that out. Bill in Pocotex in Seelov's is not NHL ready, going on right now and then look at the numbers numbers play that out uh bill in poco texan silovs is not nhl ready but susie myers julson are becoming unplayable as well and then he says three years of myers was there a bidding war no but there actually would have been like myers would

have got that contract somewhere with the demand for right shot defenseman especially with size and myers was very good in the playoffs last night they did switch up the pairs you know they had Susie with Juleson and Myers with Brandstrom and halfway through the game I was like okay fine put Susie and Myers back together right I mean that's how bad that's how bad it got I mean Susie and Juleson weren't good together and you know if we're talking about you know C-Lob shouldn't be in the NHL I mean frankly I'm watching Juleson half the time I mean like you're an you're an AHL player too yeah he's he's a quad A yeah he's a tweener all those things he's easier and I I would be um surprised well

jeez I don't know I don't know what they think of Darren A right now but I don't know if I like I if he's healthy put him back in there because the Juleson thing isn't working but Soucy's isn't playing well Myers isn't playing well and I think you know as as good a story as Branstrom has been he's not the answer either right like he's a good story as a third pair guy that can give the Canucks some puck moving but look on that fifth goal that we're all ripping on um Selah's four and Meyer's four like Branstrom is way out of position too right like you can't get you can't allow Brian Russ to just part the seas on a defensive pairing some of the the structural stuff last night was atrocious the fourth goal eric carlson has all the time in the world to just give a stretch pass to sydney crosby

who you might want to check sure and he's wide open i don't know what myers was doing getting caught up the ice when syd Crosby is out there and then that puts I guess it was Myers and Hughes together that puts Hughes in a tough position and he's like okay well I guess I'll take Sid is like and Sid is like okay thanks I'm just gonna pass it to Russ now Myers is nowhere to be seen so that's on Besser to come back and take Russ and he didn't come close I mean that was just an absolute breakdown. If it was football, you'd be like, wow, that's a blown coverage right there.

Burn the tape on that one. You mentioned Brock Besser. Question for you. Now that he's had a couple games back in the lineup, is it time to put Besser with Petey and DeBrusque and put Sherwood back with Bluger and Heinen? Yes. For sure. But I also think in these last two games especially,

I know they beat the Bruins, but they didn't have much going on offensively, and they really missed Miller. You know, we can say, yeah, put Besser with Petey and DeBrusque, put Sherwood back with Heinen and Bluger, and that was a trio that was going really well earlier in the season. And we would talk about the Canucks depth and all, you know, the new guys that have really found something.

But they miss Miller. Man, they really miss Miller. Offensively, you know, I know Petey scored last night. I didn't think their line was that good. Their line was dreadful against the Bruins. They're badly outplayed. And that was one game where I actually didn't think Sherwood played all that well yeah you know I'm not going to blame him but you know I still watch Pedersen skating and I'm like the guy does not have the burst that he used

to it's good that he's finding ways to produce and he scored again and that's great he's still not the same player that he has been at the peak of his powers and he needs to get that back and the Canucks need to get Miller back again I said this a week ago when I said I'm getting worried about the Canucks actually it might have been a more than a week ago I can't remember when it was it was all the little fires I was like there's little fires burning everywhere on this team and actually there's some big fires burning right now yeah yeah but big fires with little fires and they look ragged yeah that's how i would describe them they look ragged and you know if you look at this schedule that they've got remaining on the trip they're in buffalo at detroit and i know those teams are you know still

not great and they're still trying to get out of their rebuild. Buffalo's not playing bad hockey right now. They really aren't. I think they got goalied by Minnesota last night. And Detroit, that's going to be a weird one because it's 9.30 in the morning hour time. And then they're going to finish off the road trip in Minnesota against a very good wild team. I know they've been good on the road, but this isn't, despite the opponents,

with this current state of the team, this is not going to be an easy road trip to finish off in a good way. Well, and we saw that on the homestand where we thought that there was going to be some relatively quote-unquote easy games on the homestand, and they only managed to get four out of a possible 12 points. Now, despite the fact that we've said all this,

I will say it is that first major demarcation of the NHL regular season today. American Thanksgiving, November 28th, 2024. And if you're looking for glass half full stuff from the Halford and Brough show, I will point out that the Vancouver Canucks are indeed in a playoff spot. By the slimmest of margins, 25 points,

the second and final wildcard spot is there right now on American Thanksgiving. But do you add even more optimism to the mix? I'll say this. The Vancouver Canucks have games in hand on practically everybody in the West. Two games in hand for most, except for Dallas, who is also at 21 games played. So it's for all of the mini fires that are seemingly growing and maybe turning into like full five alarm blazes. Things are still going OK.

They've actually survived a lot of these fires reasonably well, thanks in huge part to how good they've been on the road. But as you mentioned, it doesn't get any easier moving forward. And a lot of the cupcake games are in the rear view now. So we'll see what happens moving forward. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. And a lot of the cupcake games are in the rear view now. So we'll see what happens moving forward. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. And what we just have to call Thomas Drance Erotica.

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Thomas Grant's Erotica. PDO. Thomas Grant's Erotica. 7.03 on a Thursday. Not just any Thursday. Happy Thanksgiving, America. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford & Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda

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powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Rafi, what are you waiting for? Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, our feet, what are you waiting for? Kintec, to the phone lines we go. Drancer, Thomas Drance joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Drance? Gentlemen, best day of the year. Happy, yeah, happy football Thursday.

Yeah, happy bro Christmas to you both. Bro Christmas. Can I just say this, though? Are there any good games today? Yeah. What do you think of it? I know you're excited, and I'm excited, too. Everyone loves a full buffet of football day,

but the games are, dare I say, mid. Detroit is always fun to watch, though. Yeah, Caleb has been good the last two weeks, too. Detroit's got a lot of injuries on defense, right? Like, they've been blitzing a ton they're basically they're basically the vikings defense now they're playing a different sport uh since hutchinson got hurt and so i think i think the bears can do real damage and hang around in that game i mean you guys will remember last year we were all confident that um the lions

were going to stomp the packers and jordan, who struggled all season, and then he went ham and became excellent the rest of the year. So, yeah, no, I'm excited for that Chicago game. I think it's going to be really strong right out the gate. And, yeah, I mean... It's the Cowboys-Giants game that ruins it for everyone. It's the Cowboys-Giants game. I disagree.

And plus, that's the highest stakes game of the day for you and for me. It is true. Because we're in a big playoff game. So I'm just saying. Okay, okay. We're not doing this. We're not doing this. We're not doing your fantasy football.

We need to talk about. That's the one I'm most excited about. Hey, buddy, me too. Yeah. All right. I wish you were in the studio to see Bruff's face right now He's like, God, I hate you both equally I hate this conversation so much That I want to That I am willing to talk about the Canucks defense

That's how badly I hate this conversation Drancer, I mean, where do you start with this group? God forbid Filip Hronik actually did get seriously hurt. Yeah. It was like 45 seconds left. He got driven into the boards and it looked like he hurt his shoulder. There was no update on it. Rick Tockett wasn't asked.

I know you're not out on the road, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see on that one. But, you know, even if he is healthy this this defense is problematic and I and I know you wrote about it uh a week or two ago and yeah the the point was that the Canucks like what they've got in the system whether it's in the AHL or in college or in, in major junior, but you know, they need help right now. So what did they do? Yeah. And, and I think they're weighing that, right? So what, you know, I think the substance of what I reported, I'll start with that and then I'll, and then I'll editorialize a bit. The Canucks know that they need defense help. They know that the second pair in particular has been a sore spot.

I think we can tell now, based on the deployment, since they split Susie Myers for that Ottawa game, and it's been a little bit hard to ferret out exactly what signal, what's noise, because Quinn Hughes got the misconduct against the Senators, which threw everything into something of a blender on defense. And then you get that Canucks holding on by their fingernails in Boston,

sort of negative game script, right? So neither of those is like an instructive example. But last night we did see an extreme trailing game script. And we saw Branstrom play top four minutes. And we saw Myers play, you know, a lot more than Carson Soucy. And we saw the Soucy-Juleson pair have, I thought, the biggest breakdown of the night on that Brian Rust pass, the second Pittsburgh goal, the Raquel goal,

which I thought was a really ugly defensive sequence for that Soucy-Juleson pair. Soucy chasing and then Juleson going, oh, chasing looks fun, i'll do that too yeah you know and you don't you don't like the hughes heronic um you know but that like at least it's crosby who beat them you know right down sort of uh main street through the neutral zone that was the 4-1 goal i think myers was on the ice then was it myers myers hughes he was the one that i thought got caught up the ice but i don't know he could be wrong he was the one who was Myers Hughes he was the one that I thought got caught up the ice but I don't know he could be wrong he was the one who was caught wrong Hughes was the one caught back so I

think you're you you may well be right I just uh I just tracked it as like oh Hughes is on the ice for one that's pretty rare Canucks of course still won Quinn Hughes's minutes last night five on five by the way three two um classic right like even that game, they win Hughes's minutes, right? Like even in the Boston game where they get outshot, uh, 11 D billion to five, right. They, they, uh, come out of the, the game with, you know, nine shots on goal with Hughes on the ice, nine shots against Hughes on the ice. It's like, he can't even get outshot in that Bruins game. It's incredible.

Uh, anyway, the truth is is is that that top pair is unbelievable maybe the best pair in hockey and and that second pair has been an issue and over the last week we've seen them experiment with Branstrom uh sort of moving up the lineup and I don't I think the results have been mixed now it's early right I still think the second pair has struggled to such a massive extent and Branstrom has succeeded to such a massive extent through the first 21 games of the season. They're like giving him more than three games, all of which have kind of been weird.

Right. It is worthwhile, right? Like I'd like to see that experiment continue in Buffalo on Friday. I'd like to see that experiment continue in Detroit on Sunday at the very least. Maybe it may be, maybe you give it even 10 games really just to know what

you have but I do think the Canucks are aware of clearly and then I sort of reported it before these lineup tweets tweaks but we we've now sort of got it cemented they're aware that Carson Seuss is struggling they're aware that their second pair is not good enough and they're aware that they have defense belt and yet you know I think when you assess this team versus last year, I do think there's compelling reasons to think some of the logic of like pushing chips into the center of the table

and buying rental players like Zdorov and Lindholm, which the club did last year, you know, might be something the club's a little more circumspect about. And I think there's a lot of things that go into that. Like, I think there's a lot of things that go into that.

Like, I think there's not as much wind at this team's back right now. We all know that, right? There's a ton of absences. There's a ton of injuries. There's a ton of uncertainty. What's Demko going to look like when he gets back? When is Miller going to get back? Can this team consistently show up early in games and play the right way?

Right? Alvin was explicit about it last year now this is me editorializing a bit because i know that the club is weighing the future versus the past differently than they were last season that that is fact but my spin on it like one thing that i'm curious about is how much of that is as alvin talked about explicitly a lot last year like these guys have earned right the right for us to go out and spend like these guys have earned the right for us to bring in whatever reinforcements we can find to give them a shot. To what extent is the club currently weighing the future and the present

and those sort of priorities a little bit more, a little bit differently than they did last season, to what extent is that like, hey, guys, we're not starting games on time consistently enough. We're not playing the right way consistently enough. We're chasing too much in the defensive zone. We're not being disciplined about our structure. You know, forget the way that the bounces are going in.

Like, we're not even protecting the inner slot at a well above average rate this season um to what extent is that sort of view of the defense being caught somewhat in between in the club looking at you know kudravsev and volander and you know even mcward and sawyer binio who probably will play for team canada at the u2020s over the holidays, right? Like, them looking at those guys and being like, look, we're a year away from having options on the back end. So if we part with assets, we've got to be getting a long-term piece back.

We can't do the Zdorov-Lindholm, you know, part with a first, a third, a Bristevich, a bunch of other stuff, and end up, you know, yes, having won a playoff round, but eight months later with nothing to show for that. It's funny. We said the exact same thing in the first hour. We were talking about how last season a lot of it was like these guys have earned the right to get some help at the trade deadline or they've earned the

right that things are going well. Right now, if you were looking at at it it's like there are little fires and big fires burning everywhere yeah and there's a bunch of guys that just aren't playing well right now especially on the back end and i don't know if you'd want to like your reaction your first reaction is like get some help but then there's always that price to pay for that help. And is it worthwhile this season? But then on the other hand, as someone texted it in, you know, they're currently getting great value from Quinn Hughes' contract.

Do you want to waste a year of that? You know, if Demko comes back and plays really well, they're getting great value from that contract do you want to waste that but i guess you have to look at it on a team-wide approach yeah and i mean i look is it is it wasted just because you don't go spend right like is it wasted because you don't spend a first or do you have to think of it too from the perspective of you know we we have three years on quinn hughes's deal like that's you know whether we hit now or in year two or year three like we have to be careful about using that window right

like we have to be careful about using that efficiency over a three-year timeline timeline right like last year they didn't have petterson signed right they had various other um i think fish to fry they had the business case of needing to re-excite the market in a different way and not that they've been sold out yeah right like there have been some empty seats at rogers arena especially on that last homestand. Perhaps the quality of hockey that the club has played at home has played a factor there. But I do think the level of excitement and sort of pride or the fact that the organization is not viewed widely around the league and in this market is like a punchline. Like a hapless, always losing franchise. I think it changes some of the way that you can look at this and i

think it probably should now i still think they're going to do something don't get me wrong i just think the you know the the quality of options available on the market are low right generally speaking especially in terms of the expiring class of UFA defenders, the cap is going to go up massively. And even though the club has a well above average amount of dead space on the books for next season, like five and a half million between McKay and the OEL buyout jumping up, they're still pretty well positioned. Like this management group's done a really good job managing the term on some

of these deals. You know, you've got Suter, you've got Brandstrom, you've got Besser, you've got lankan and expiring so it's not like they have nothing um of value that they'll have to lock up in fact there's a lot of those players that i would describe as key or even priorities but um you know they should have the ability to retain you know besser you know made depending on where the prices get on lankan and Brandstrom and Suter either retain those guys or replace them affordably and take another big swing right like there's flexibility on the horizon um so and then and then to top it off every single contender needs a top four defender you know like does it make sense to pay massively for a marcus petterson or a mike

matheson caliber guy when you know or at least you should suspect that if they even come in here and then we're talking two months down the line and carson souci's found even if not his form from last year but something between his form from last year and what he's been through the first 21 games of this season. You know, Tuckett's playing Soucy ahead of him anyway, and you've paid a whole bunch of capital to upgrade over Branstrom, and it might not even be that big an upgrade because Branstrom's killed it at the very least in the third pair role, right? Like, if Soucy returned to form, I think you'd feel pretty confident

or pretty comfortable in your options on defense. So I just think it's a very interesting place that they're in. And the way that it was described to me is the team feels like they're caught in between, right? Where they've got some guys coming that they're really hopeful will bolster this defense in 12 to 18 months. And yet they know there's some issues now there's they know there's some short-term needs and i think balancing that set of priorities especially given you know

and again not just the win-loss record but the way that this team has showed up and the inconsistency with which they've shown up with focus right i i do think that's you know weighing on the internal thought process pretty significantly let's talk about some of these young players um and you know Tom Willander he's the first round draft pick so obviously he's going to get um most of the attention and perhaps deservedly so, but in terms of meaningful impacts, which guy down in the system or in college maybe or a major junior, which guy is closest to making a meaningful impact on this team? Like a meaningful impact as in above third pair? Yeah, let's go with that yeah i i mean i i think the answer is in terms of

readiness i think it's curl could draft that right which is crazy it was a seventh round draft pick in 2022 well and the and the story goes that the club's list had run out right like they'd actually the the draft had gone through their list um so you know truly truly a remarkable story um but yeah look he's killing it in the american league like his points his production is there the defensive play is there he's on this pair with cole mcward and they're prop they're easily they've easily been Abbotsford's best puck moving pair. And so, you know, the thing that I get a little concerned about there is, and we're seeing it a little bit with Branstrom, right,

is the model of like the undersized defensively reliable, but not like big mean penalty killing defensive value guy who's good offensively, but probably like big, mean, penalty-killing, defensive value guy who's good offensively, but probably not elite offensively, right? He's never going to supplant Quinn Hughes on the power play or probably even supplant Philip Peronic on the power play. Sort of, there's a real ceiling on those types of players unless they become top 0.5 percentile defensive players. Like unless they become Jared Spurgeon, right?

It's pretty hard for those players to be more than a third pair guy. And sort of what I worry about with a player who has Kudravsev's profile, even though I think he looks pretty like he looked NH, honestly, he looked pro ready in the preseason he looked pro ready at training camp and i was kind of saying this then and i'll repeat it now because it's still true um unless you can get to that completely preposterous defensive level right then you know you might be ready quick like uh like uh like a victor mette was remember the victor mette hype but that doesn't mean that you're more than like a six seven in the nhl right like just because you're ready soon doesn't necessarily raise your ceiling right even if it does mean that you're

probably pretty good at hockey um and i think kudravsev's now at the point where it's like he's just good right like he's just good. He's just good. And that's interesting. And the Canucks may want to see what they have there, especially if he can sustain this level of production and form in the American League going forward. So I'd say he's closest. But what does that mean? In terms of making a real impact, what does that mean? I don't know. I don't know i don't know and but i have some suspicions that what it means is

um you know you might have a good asset as opposed to like a really impactful future top four fixture so weigh everything that we've just talked about do you think the canucks are going to make a big trade this season for defensive help i'm never i'm never going to bet against a Jim Rutherford, Patrick Alvien team making a big in-season trade. I'm never going to bet against that. I think the prospect of having a mid-to-late first in this draft class versus having real help now, I think ultimately the balance on that right is that the the the the ledger is going to point the canucks toward making some sort of deal to bolster their

fortunes short term um perhaps you could expand that deal and it includes you know a good young asset either a prospect or a hoaglander type or, you know, even an Atu Ratu or like that sort of tier of, you know, young players that the club is now able to use pretty consistently, but still sort of has some undefined future value. You know, I could see something like that, but I do think the club is going to be looking to grab term if they can. Like, I think that was uh what

was sort of interesting about like the zadorov name float from elliot friedman last week for example was like zadorov has five years right so that's not just a fit this season that's a potential fixture even if the club you know wasn't willing to go there in contract talks i'm not trying to like reheat up Zadora back to Vancouver, just using him as an example of a guy with term, a guy who's a multi-year fit to help this blue line. That I think would be the priority. And if something like that presents itself where the club feels like they can

acquire a player for a multiple year span, I think they're going to do it. What I will be a little bit surprised by at this point, I might change my mind in a month, depending on how this team performs and sort of where they're stationed and what things look like. But as it stands today, I'd be a little bit surprised to see them swing like a big expensive trade,

you know, third rounder for a, for a, for an expiring contract depth defender that, or like an ethan bearer type young player lottery ticket that won't shock me but to spend like the first on a rental player uh that that right now would be you know a mild surprise not something that would stun me because again this is probably the most aggressive front office in the league in terms of making and swinging and season deals. But it would,

it would certainly be something that raises my eyebrows is something I don't expect at this juncture. I know we got to go, but I'm going to ask anyway, because I don't care because it's my show. It's rough show too. Has Archer Silov's reached unplayable status? Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. I think so. And I feel bad for him because to be totally honest with you gentlemen i thought the first goal against was an unlucky bounce i thought the second goal against was a preposterous breakdown and then you sort of wonder if that rattles a guy who's on a bit of a cold streak like i don't think he's unplayable and that he's unsalvageable right but in the moment you, can this team rely on him to win them games at the

NHL level? I don't think so. Like, I think he needs to go back to the American League. I think he needs to find his game. I think he needs, you know, one of those classic resets. I think that's obvious. And the reason I think that is that after a bad bouncer beat him on the Blake Lozot goal, just a really unlucky bounce off the end boards and a brutal breakdown where no one would blame for the raquel goal no one no unreasonable anyway um i thought he was too aggressive on the third goal um or sorry no no i thought he was too aggressive on the fourth goal the third goal just squirted through him along the like he lost it in the crease that's that's tough and then the fifth goal can't can't go in the fifth goal which ultimately stands

up as a game winner like that can't go in that's an unscreened wrist shot from a non-lethal shooter like come on man yeah so i just thought i just thought he started reeling after those two unfortunate ones that i wouldn't pin on him and that's just the market of a of a goalie that's you know a little bit there may be not not, but their confidence isn't where it needs to be to perform at the NHL level. So, you know, I don't think that they can rely on him right now at the NHL level, given everything we've seen this season and given that, right?

Like, given the way that it snowballed on him last night. That's what concerns me. And look, he's waiver exempt. He can go down to the American League. He can find his game. This is not a commentary on what Shel loves can be long term my confidence in that isn't dented in that i you know it's a goalie i was never that confident anyway but i still think he's a super talented young player uh worthy of development and and confidence but um yeah it's

not working for him right now and i thought thought last night the way that, you know, two goals that weren't on him snowballed and became a third and then a fourth and then a fifth in relatively quick succession. I thought that spoke volumes about where his game's at. I don't think you can count on that to be in the net at the NHL level short term anyway. Drancer, this was great. As always, thanks for taking the time to do it.

Enjoy your day of football. I will. Spencer, this was great. As always, thanks for taking the time to do it. Enjoy your day of football. And if the after the Ballyhooed afternoon affair of Drew Locke versus Cooper Rush doesn't do it for you. Let's go. Mix in an app. Just mix in an app. It's way better. It's way better without Tommy DeVito. This is functional QB play, baby.

Let's go. Let's enjoy some functional QB play today, guys. Have fun, buddy. Cheers. Bye. See you, pal. Thomas Trance from The Athletic Vancouver here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet

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