Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 1/13/25

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at a busy weekend in sports, they talk Friday and Saturday's Canucks action with Sportsnet's Iain MacIntyre, plus the boys tell us what they learned.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. From backs against the wall to back to back to back, the Dodgers cement their dynasty. Touchdown. Seahawks. Are you kidding me? Everybody scored but Dave Wyman tonight. Drew O'Connor had both Vancouver goals, but the final score tonight is the Wild 5 and the Kanox 2. Good morning Vancouver, 6-1 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. It is Halford. It is Brough at SportsNet 650. We are coming you live from the Kintech Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning.

Good morning. Adaw, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you, brother. Hello, hello. Halford and breath in the morning is brought to you by Sands. I'm fine. And associates.

I'm fine. Scorreate death freedom hat trick. One, no more interest, two much lower payments and three financial peace of mind. Visit them on mine at sands dash trustee.com. We are an hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling.

They recycle. You get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to live from the Kintech studio, Kintech, footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. So it's not very often we get to do a show like this coming off one of the more amazing and disappointing at the same time kind of sports events that, quite frankly, we've ever covered since we started working in the industry. Are you talking about the Kucks loss in Minnesota? Unbelievably, forgettable, that one. No, obviously, and that's why I wanted to kind of throw it to Laddie at the start, because I don't, look, I don't want to revel in, like, sadness.

Like, I feel genuinely bad that as the most ardent Blue Jays fan that I know, you and your family also by extension, that is an all-timer in terms of disappointing losses. And good on you for showing up with a big smile and grin on your face this morning. I applaud. And no firearms. Right. This is the worst day of my life. that's going to set the stage for what we're talking about today, folks.

Everyone looks awful, except Lattie. It looks great. If you tuned in to, as Jason's mentioned, hear about the Canucks 5-2 loss in Minnesota on Saturday, you might want to fast forward to hour two of the program or maybe even hour three because we're going to spend a lot of time talking about what happened in Toronto over the weekend.

We have a very full guest list today, three guests, and at 6.30, I couldn't think of a more fitting guest, to be honest. Dan Shulman, the play-by-play voice, so the Blue Jays is going to join us. We're now 36 or some odd hours removed from Toronto's crushing defeat to the Dodgers in Game 7 of the World Series. We're going to talk to Dan about what went down.

We're going to ask him if he's even had time to process exactly what he just witnessed and called. What is it like to be on the call of what was concurrently one of the greatest game sevens in Major League Baseball history? And also, at the same time, one of the biggest. maybe the biggest sporting disappointments in Toronto's history. That is a lot. That's a lot to process.

That's a lot to take in. We'll talk to Dan about it at 6.30. Other sports we will discuss today. 7 o'clock, Mike Tanier, our NFL insider. Another good Sunday in the National Football League. Amazing performance from Sam Darnold, the Seahawks last night, only tempered by an absolutely gruesome injury to Jaden Daniels in that game. We'll get into all that and more with Mike at 7 o'clock.

And then at 8, yes, your home of the Canucks, Sportsnet, 650. We will go over the game on the game. the weekend and tonight's game against Nashville with Satyar Shah from Canucks Central Canucks pre and post game host. He'll be joining us this morning at 8. He'll also be working the game tonight. 5.30 puck drop from Nashville.

The Canucks take on the Preds after losing 5'2 to the wild on Saturday night. So working in reverse very quickly on that guest list. 8 o'clock Satyar Shah, 7 o'clock Mike Tanier 630, Dan Shalman. That's what's happening on the program today. Greg, let's tell everybody what happened.

Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that?

What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.ca.ca.ca. So, Halford, you kind of hinted at this already, but sometimes there are shows where where we have to perform the sports radio version of triage, where we have so many possible stories to discuss,

and we can't discuss them all. So we have to assess the urgency of the stories and make the difficult decision that some stories have to hang out in the waiting room for a while. So with that in mind, apologies to the Vancouver Whitecaps and the BC Lions. Even the Vancouver Canucks are going to have to take a seat. Seattle Seahawks will be with you as soon as we can.

You all deserve some attention and you'll get it eventually, but you're going to have to wait because there was a major sports disaster in Toronto this weekend. Fair and valid. I don't know if I've ever witnessed a more cruel ending to a championship series than that. The Blue Jays, let's just go through this. let's go through this what what just happened and we'll talk ourselves through it the blue jays went into the weekend with two chances to win the world series they lost game six on Friday and

that was a pretty tough loss with some of the things the weird things that happened in that one but no worries the jays are were a resilient group they still had game seven to get it done and for most of game seven, they had the World Series right in their hand. Bo Bichette hit a three-run, home run in the bottom of the third, and the Jay's and the Rogers Center rode the vibes of that home run for most of the game. But just as the fans at the Rogers Center started counting down the outs until glory, and really one of the great upsets in World Series history, it all started. to slip away. So let's go, let's, let's, you know, we mentioned the Bo Bichette home run.

Yeah. We don't even need to like talk about a near bench clearing brawl. I mean, the bench just did clear. Right. I mean. And it's a footnote. It's a footnote. But let's go, let's go to the eighth inning. The Js had a four two lead and they needed just five more outs. And that's when Max Muncie homered off, Trey you Savage. Yeah, he was in there to make it. four to three. But the eighth ended without any additional damage and we went to the ninth. Jeff Hoffman, the closer, was in for the Jays. And what were you thinking at that point, Halford? What did you text me? Oh no, it's the Jeff Hoffman moment. I just threw it out there. And you know what? I later retroactively I put it out to a larger audience, but I only texted it to you

because I can't remember the amount of times that we had said on this show throughout this playoff run. Man, there's never really been one of those high leverage Hoffman situations yet. The guy that got touched up so much in August and early September. It was the main story for a good chunk of the Blue Jays season.

The amount of time that this show, traditionally not a baseball show, spent about talking about the Blue Jays clothes or woes in the summer, was a lot. And it didn't happen all, postseason until game seven of the world series. So he gets the first guy, two outs to go. Two outs and the Jays would win the world series. Miguel Rojas was up with Shohei Otani waiting on deck. And I remember, I think Dan might have even mentioned on the broadcast. I guess they got

no other options. They're not going to pinch hit for Rojas, right? Like he's the guy. Like it wasn't a great matchup for them, but at that point, we all figured that Hoffman would get Rojas out, and it would come down to Hoffman and Otani. That would be, that would be the final battle, the much maligned closer versus the greatest baseball player on the planet, maybe ever. And then Rojas with a full count, and I understand Hoffman didn't want to, didn't want to walk him, right? Sure. And then Otani has a chance to give the Dodgers the lead. But Rojas does the unthinkable and hits a home run himself.

Okay, so pause at this point. At this point, according to multiple stat websites and baseball reference, when Rojas got to the plate, Jay's win probability is 92%. This is the number nine hitter with one out in, an inning where that didn't look like there was a lot of danger except for Otani being on deck. 92% was the win probability.

Rojas... I thought it had them at two strikes. Yeah. They were full count. They were four strikes away. Right. It's because Otani was waiting on deck that the percentage wasn't higher.

To be honest, that was it. Rojas, not a heavy hitter. One extra base hit in his postseason career. He joins Bill Mazurowski, one of the most famous home runs in MLB history. Game tying or go-ahead home run in the ninth inning of a winner take all World Series game. That's the magnitude of that home run.

And that wasn't even the biggest story of them all. I have seen stunned crowds before. I've been part of stunned crowds. Many. I'm not sure I've ever seen a stunned crowd like that. The Jays did get out of the inning and they still had a chance to win it in the bottom of the ninth, but it wasn't supposed to get that far.

At that point, it was kind of like, oh, we're in uncharted waters here. The idea that the Jays could actually lose this thing had officially entered the chat. But those resilient Jays looked like they were going to do it again. In the bottom of the ninth, they loaded the basis with one out. And by the way, Vladdy, I thought he'd hit a walk off there. But that's almost a footnote too, right? You go back in never when Vladdy nearly walked it off. Another footnote in a series of footnotes.

But they loaded the bases with one out. All they needed was a measly sack fly or hit or an error or a slow roller. Wild pitch? Anything. Get that and they'd win the World Series. The Dodgers brought the infield in and Dalton Varsho proceeded to ground one a little too sharply for everyone's liking to second. The throw came home and barely beat ICF.

the plate. It looked for a second like Will Smith's, the catcher. His foot might have come off the plate and ICF was actually safe. But upon review, we all saw that Smith's foot did come off the plate, but he put it back down just in time, avoiding one of the great, like, do you think he was just like, I came so close to being like my, that's a life change. injury in a very, very bad way. And by the way, remember that name, Will Smith. That, anyway, that brought Ernie Clement to the plate

with a chance to win it as well. And he hit one deep to left. And the outfield was playing pretty shallow. And it required a brilliant body checking his teammate out of the way. Out of the way, KK. Catch by Andy Paez, who was in their defensively, right?

Like, he'd been in there for defensive reasons. The only reason that Rojas was in the lineup was because Pahez was hitting like 044 over the course of the postseason. And Dave Roberts finally said,

enough's enough. We're dropping them from the starting lineup. We're going to put Rojas in and we're going to move call to center field. Pahas was in there as a defensive replacement. And he actually body checked the guy, Kike Hernandez, who made the brilliant defensive outfield play

in game six to end the game. You want to talk about a team that found itself in the biggest clutch moments. The Dodgers absolutely did it. Every time they needed to make a play in a very big moment, they came up with plays time and time again, both at the plate end in the field. So to recap where we are right now,

the Jays had loaded the bases with one out. All they needed was one run to win the World Series. They couldn't do it. They very nearly did, but they didn't. So we went to extra innings. The Jays got out of a jam in the top of the 10th, but it was the catcher Will Smith. remember that guy

foot on the plate foot off the plate then foot back on the plate who was will Smith who homered in the top of the 11th off Shane Bieber with two outs for the first time in the game the Dodgers had the lead but these jays would not go quietly

in the bottom of the inning even with their kryptonite Yoshinobu Yamamoto on the mound for the Dodgers they managed to put runners on first and third with one out and Alejandro Kirk at the plate. The only thing Kirk could absolutely not afford to do was exactly what he did.

He grounded into a game ending, series ending, double play. The Dodgers had won the World Series and the Jays had not. And more history. That's the first time since 1947 that a World Series has ended on a double play. The amount of history and the amount of things that you saw in one game, one game alone, like I said off the top, would have made this an easy contender for the greatest game seven in Major League Baseball history.

But that almost, that entire narrative kind of takes a backseat because of where we are and how profound a loss this was for the city of Toronto and the Blue Jays organization. This is an all timer. I know you want to keep going here. I'll just say right now, there are people texting in right now. They're like, why are we talking about this

when the lions of one and the white caps of one and there's the Canucks on. And I will tell you this, you are not going to see a more profound sports moment than what you saw on the weekend. You're just not. It comes around once in a lifetime, that kind of crushing, soul-crushing, massive-level sports disaster. Right? And it affected the country. Like, it's not a Toronto story. It's a Canada story.

This is like, you know, it was, it was, it was, Canada was rooting for the Jays. Whether you, whether you know, like, I was a Mariners fan, I wasn't, well, most of Canada was. But without trying to justify talking about it, because I just wanted to put that out there. It is, and I mean, Laddie, jump in here because, again, you guys aren't making me feel any. I know, we're not. I'm sorry, sorry, buddy. But that was a hell of a recap by Broughton also. I'm very depressed. I mean, that is beyond a gut punch. The Js had it.

in the palm of their hands on multiple occasions. We're not talking about getting the wheels beat off in game six and seven. We're talking about a team that had enough chances over the course of those two games to bring this thing home, and they did not do it. And I did well enough to not really believe that it was going to happen until the moment when Ernie hit the ball. And there was like a half a second moment

when Kike did that kind of look back over his shoulder and look back to the wall. I know exactly. He's lost. You said to yourself, that's it. And he's done it. There was no centerfielder even in the frame. And for that half a second was the first time I was thinking that this is over, Blue Jays have won the World Series.

And then out of nowhere, that happened. Andy Pages, out of nowhere. And then even while he's making the catch, you're thinking, oh, man, he's going to bungle this. They're going to collide. Drop it or something. And it never happened. So, hey, I'm sorry, buddy. I'm sorry.

That was the moment. I'm genuinely sorry. It sucks. I know in sports radio that we're kind of tempted to pay. power rank everything, like, you know, best players, best teams, you know, like on Fridays, it's like best cheeses, I don't know. I don't really have any interest in power ranking, crushing losses today. We all know, we all know the candidates, right? We're intimately familiar with the Canucks in 2011 and the Seahawks against the Patriots. We know about the Falcons

versus the Patriots and the Red Sox versus the Mets. All I know is that without pushing the limits of reality, I'm not sure I could have drawn up a more painful way for the Blue Jays to lose that series. There are games and series that fundamentally change the relationship you have with your team. I know that after 2011, things were different between me and the Canucks. I can't explain exactly how, but they've just been different. It's fair. I felt like I had suffered sports trauma in 2011.

and I think I'm kind of over it, but I don't think I'll ever be 100% over what happened in 2011. And for Jay's fans, I think, you know, unless they come back and win this thing next year, it's going to stay with them forever. Yeah. And it's always, Lattie, like I congratulate you. I think you're handling this very well.

It's always fascinating to see how people react to crushing losses. Some will lash out with anger, blaming players or manager. managers or even suggesting there was a lack of justice in the loss as if justice has anything to do with it. Others immediately, and I mean immediately, force

themselves to look at the positives. Saying it was a great season and we'll always have the fun memories of the run. It's weak. It's avoidance. The only honest way to deal with a loss like that is to

sit in it and feel it and you know like you can sit there and just be like great season we had a great run you know didn't expect to get that far like you're lying to yourself yep like you the whole idea of the run like yeah you had those great memories right i'd think back to 2011 i was like yeah we had some fun times right we went to san Jose for the conference final that was fun had a lot of had a lot of laughs along the way but you know i wanted to win a stanley cup you can downplay You can downplay it all you want. But like you said, bro,

there's no way to sum it up. And I think if you're, I don't even have words to. I don't think you could be physically and literally closer to winning a World Series and then not winning it than the Blue Jays were. Like the Canucks were close in 2011, but in game seven, they weren't. No, they weren't. In game seven, the Jays were an inch away from Kiner Folepha being home. And when it can we, you know what I want to play?

Can we play the audio from the Oilers game? To give you an idea of how close that they were. Do we have to? Yes. On the big screen, Saturday night at the big screen. I sound like I'm in the 80s. On the JumboTron. It Rogers Center.

Rogers Place, Roger's Center in, in, uh, Rogers Place in Evanston, right? Yeah. Rogers Place in Evanston. They're playing the Jay's game while the Oilers game is going on on the screen. No volume, obviously. So they're just reacting in real time to Varsham. smack one up the middle and i kf running home jack michael's god bless him i think this is like it's a very difficult task to try and call one game while calling another game this is a very

brief snippet of what it sounded like had the jays won the world series let's play it now this is from the oilers game on saturday night a call you heard right here on sports net So the roar from the crowd is... Middle of the play. I can't have sliding across home. And Jack is also trying to call the play. It will also be also the Blue Jay just won the World Series. Then the pause and the realization that he's been out at home.

They's like, no wait, they have not won the World Series. He is out at home. And that is how close that they were. That's by far the worst part, just the fact that they were so close multiple times. Like I think at least three different times I yelled at my TV. I was like, there it is. They won. Oh, nope, they didn't.

And everyone's saying that you should take the... The positives away, oh, they weren't expected to be here. It doesn't mean anything. They were there. At the end of every season in baseball, there are 29 teams left with the same bitter taste in their mouth. It doesn't matter if you made it to extra innings of Game 7 of the World Series, or if you didn't make the playoffs at all, we're all left with that feeling. And that's what makes winning so special. Like, when you do win it, it's special because you're the one team left at the end of the year with that feeling.

And to downplay it as a Jay's fan, just because you got to Game 7, I can't do that. I know. I'm glad you're saying it that way. You've actually got some courage. Seriously. You're a Viking. No, no, no. But there are people that just like immediately jump to that.

It's because they don't want to sit in the loss. They don't want to admit that it meant something to them. It's like great. They'll say congratulations. You're looking at the positives. Like, then you didn't really take a risk. Then you didn't really take a risk with your emotions if you're just going to be like, well, we had a great time along the way. Yeah, sure we all had fun.

You know, like what are the stakes in that? I just want to add one more thing. Yes. Just as there were many, many individuals that contributed to the success of the Jays, there were many that had a hand in game seven slipping away. Now, that's a great point. Man, like they, like the way they got the next man up mentality, but in a bad way. Seriously, that was, I mean, you can, I'm laughing at some of the things that we can now do in the modern baseball era.

like, you know, I never thought that after a game, I'd be like, where did IKF's secondary leadoff rank in terms of leadoffs in the postseason, right? The statistical breakdown of that one sequence was amazing, amazing. There are about eight different metrics and arguments, and that's one of the plays. I mean, yeah, but you want to talk about it, like, you know, the base running thing, that's one component of it. Hoffman, that's another component of it. How about the fact that the Jays, who all

year, all year, their bread and butter was get guys on, get them around, and get them home. They left 14 runners on base after Bichet made it 3-0 in that game. It was like everything that they did all year, their identity, their persona,

their ability to get guys on and move them around, it all went away in the one moment where they just needed to do the thing that they had done all year long. It was maddening to watch. Unbelievable. And I hate the micro-analysis of everything, too, because as you guys know, I'm probably the biggest big-picture baseball fan that you guys know. That's baseball.

That's baseball. And I hate, you know, just the minutia and the individual moments. Because it doesn't really matter over a course of 162 game season. But in game seven of the World Series, it matters. And you talked about his leadoff at Third Brough, you can make an argument about why did he slide into home. you could have just run through like it was first base his toe probably would have been down a lot quicker than it was when he slid into home so you can break down every single detail and i hate every second of it the infield was in i hate every second of this yeah it just it never should have gotten to this point and that's all i can think about you're listening to the best of halford and brough you're listening to the best of halford and brough I'm for Satya. Nice.

Oh, man. That was a live look at the jingle recording process. We're workshopping, folks. The creative process playing alive on the air on the Halford of Grubst Show on Sports 9-650. I wrote a couple other lines in the break, too. We're getting close on this one. It's like watching musical genius unfold in front of your very eyes. This is like watching The Beatles create.

It's true. Did you see that Apple documentary? Very similar. I know the way you're talking. I haven't seen it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you go behind the scenes. It was hilarious.

It was like half a half of it was just like, oh, John Lennon's late again. Both of you need to start smoking. We need a dog fan. You can catch the magic on camera. I want you guys there with a cup of coffee and a dart just scribbling down notes the entire time. That's how it works. Yeah, like you're enjoying yourself, but you're also tortured. That's how he came up with the moj song.

Writing down the same two lines over and over and get out of use of vapor. It's the moge. It's the moge. It's the moge. I'm glad I wrote this down. You are listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and No More Interest, two much lower payments and three financial peace of mind. Visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are in our three of the program as the in progress jingle suggests.

Satyar Shah is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off. hour three. Hour three is brought to you by Campbell & Pound real estate appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell and Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell dash pound.com today. We're coming to live from the Kintech studio, Kintech footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. To the phone lines we go, Satyar Shah joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Sat? What's going on boys? I can just imagine Andy being on percussion. You're like strumming a guitar and and, you know, Bruff is just yelling at you guys to get her right. Yeah, I'm the producer.

We're going to do it again. Greg suddenly develops an English accent out of nowhere. Yeah, I guess like. He's aggressively writing down the words quickly and the pen breaks and he gets yelled out. All right. Let's do this Canucks thing. Vancouver Canucks tonight, 530 puck drop from Nashville to take on the Predators. Big news of the days that Quinn Hughes appears prime to return to the lineup.

A spark, hopefully, for a team that, And we talked about this last segment. I don't know if you're of the same mind or not, but it's been a little bit of an uninspired start to the season, in large part because of what's going on in the sporting landscape around the Canucks, but between the injuries and the 6 and 7 record and everything else, it's just been a little flat for me. I don't know if it's been that way for you.

Yeah, no, it really has been. I mean, the hockey hasn't exactly been good either. Good point. The optimism heading into the season has kind of evaporated. There was all the good vibes. And, you know, the vibes were, I mean, the team, the players spoke about the good vibes. And, you know, the media felt it was palpable just being around the team. And that's kind of evaporated.

Maybe it's the injuries. And so I just think it's, it has been everything, it's been everything people hoped it wouldn't be so far. And maybe they've had some more results that people expected given how the hockey's been like. But it hasn't been an exciting start. And it's hard to have a lot of hope about the season, given how things have started. And, you know, you mentioned Quinn. It's good to have them back in the lineup. But even Quinn hasn't looked like Quinn himself.

So I think that's been the other jarring part, not to say that people are worried about Quinn finding his game, but you also get a real sense of what this team looks like when Quinn's not at his best. So I think that has also created some more skepticism about the team. And ultimately, unless they start winning games and getting on a run, it just seems like people are waiting to see what happens next. Yeah, the month of November could be real interesting for this team.

They play 14 games in November. They lost their first one Saturday in Minnesota. I assume you watched the game. I think a lot of people were watching other things on Saturday. What did it look like? I guess it was the breakout game for Drew O'Connor, which is one of those things where you're like, good for him. But what about the guys that are supposed to score?

Well, that was a real frustrating thing because the game against the Blues, yeah, Sherwood scored all the goals, but they didn't give the Blues a lot. They were really good defensively. they had, if you looked at the natural static high danger chances, they looked like they were, you know, pretty crazy. But then you go through the game, a lot of this stuff was to the outside,

and there wasn't a lot of secondary chances, it wasn't a lot off to rush. They did a really good job of shutting them down for the most part. And, you know, even that whole P-D line, yeah, they didn't score, but they did shut down the other line's top six. And they actually kept the puck in the offense zone, created more chances than the St. Louis Blue's top six. So you could talk about that game and say, well, you know, that top line played all the tough minutes.

They played over 20 minutes. They shut down the opposition's top line. The bottom six chipped into one. The game was a nice team win. But then what happened to the other game was you got two goals since you go, O'Connor, but that top line didn't have the same impact. The Canucks as a team, you know, to be fair, it didn't give up a ton considering the circumstances.

But that top line went from shutting down the opposition to being scored on and looking like they're out of their depth again. And you kind of fell back to that whole notion of, oh, do you not have top guys that can run anymore? Like what happened to the last game? At the very least, you could craft these. argument that they shut down the opposition, played heavy minutes, and allowed the bottom six to win the hockey game. But when you're not shutting down the opposition, and you're not

tilting the ice in your favor, even to get a couple of goals in the bottom six, it just feels a lot emptier than the previous games. And I guess that's kind of the story that it's been around Elias Pedersen, because we see some good games, you see, you know, like he's about to break out, and then you see another game where he's nowhere near the level again. And not to say it all comes down to him the last game because other guys can also contribute, but that's where the team's at. They need their top players to be their top players

every single night and that's the all inconsistent thing. We talk about play drivers a lot on this show and the Canucks have one in Quinn Hughes and another in Connor Garland.

Do you think Petterson's I mean the last three games pointless and not really creating scoring chances at five on five is that a lot to do with Garland not being on his line anymore?

Yeah, I'm sure it makes a big difference. I mean, he doesn't look quite as dangerous about Garland being there. And that creates me more questions. And it shouldn't be that, you know, Pedersen needs somebody like Garland all the time to drive him because you're getting paid where you're getting paid. And you've been a player you've been in the past because you have been a play driver. But it's spot on.

They don't look nearly as dangerous without Garland. I was having in trouble with somebody earlier about this. And, you know, I said I couldn't believe how important Garland has become to this team, especially considering where he was a few years ago. And now he's one of the most critical players on the team. And it kind of, it's not the same as the Drew O'Connor discussion, but it's not too far off. As good as Garland is, on how many teams is he your first or second most critical

play driver in the league? Like, there aren't a lot of teams that he would be that on, and that's expecting a lot from him as well. So obviously Hughes is by himself, you know, he's in a class of his own. But, you know, Garland right now has become their second most important skater because he's the only guy that can actually tilt the ice in the team's favor when he's out there. And they need more of those guys.

The only guy they have on the team that can do that is Ilius Pedersen, EP40, but he hasn't been at that level consistently. And let me tell you guys, it's very hard to find these guys via trade because the Knuck's been trying, and they have not had any luck in finding these types of players. So we're right back where we were when last season ended and where we were this off season. And we're all kind of wondering, can Elias Pedersen turn into being that play driver to give the Knuck's one more guy that they can truly have a chance

do something. And if I do something, I don't even mean to win a Stanley Cup. I'm saying, can you actually be in this playoff race and make the playoffs by the end of the season? It's really, it makes it difficult to discuss some of the other elements of the team when this is hanging over you. I mean, you

could say arguably the two most important players on the team, you're wondering about their futures, whether Quinn Hughes is going to stay and whether Elias Pedersen has ever going to find his game again, you know, it's all well good. You can discuss like Tom Fielander has looked good, right?

He's really surprised me in a positive way. I think he's looked good. His skating is excellent. And, you know, the Kiefer-Shir-Wood story is great. It's awesome. It's amazing. Good for Kiefer-Fer-Shir-Wood. But the other stuff just hangs over the team where you're kind of like, well, you know, we can discuss that, and that's awesome.

But the question always comes up, like, to what end is Kiefer-Sher-Wood playing well? You know, what's it going to result in for this Kinnock's team? you've got these massive questions hanging over the number one defenseman and the number one center. Well, absolutely. And I mean, I'm already a little bit tired of, you know, we're straight into the rebuild talk and, you know, trade queen already talk because it's too early for it for me. I mean, we're 13 games in. This stuff isn't going to be happening until the trade at the very earliest and maybe even the offseason.

So I just can't do the let's talk about trades that are hypothetical now until the very end of the season. It's just way too much season. But you understand why the fans are going there. 100%. Like, how can you not go there? I mean, that's the existential question. And you always think about the existential questions, right, no matter what the situation is.

And that's the one. Hughes, you may not be able to convince to keep. And Pedersen might not be able to do anything with. And that's the hard thing about Pedersen. There isn't a single team right now that's looking to trade for Elias Patterson. And we've talked about the buyout thing and what that looks like is even worse.

And that's not to say the team may not find something at some point. But that solution is not coming anytime soon. I'd be shocked that there's any type of Pedersen solution trade-wise during the season. It's not going to come. And Quinn Hughes, well, the way it's going, I think it all kind of points towards certain direction and the team doesn't have success. But again, you have to wait for that to kind of come. But I can't blame fans for looking at it and looking at the situation and saying, well,

isn't the best things you just cut your losses and move forward? That's not how they're operating organizationally because you go on a four or five winning streak and somebody gets hot, you feel a lot better about things that you can kick the can down the road, but that hasn't happened quite yet. And I say the other thing, too, with P.D.'s play in general, like, I think internally, they like a lot of things he's done, but I don't think there is any thought that he's back by any stretch of the imagination. I think there's a lot more that they want to see from this player, and that's still something they're waiting for. And when I looked at a guy like

Keeper Sherwood, and I'm as big a Keeper Sherwood fan as there is, I love his game, and I thought he was going to be good fit. He's been even better than I thought he would be when he came over to Vancouver. But you can't even sign this player until you have clarity on what you're doing with your organization moving forward. Like, I don't think you can sign Sherwood until you know what Hughes is doing. So if Hughes isn't saying, and

Pedersen's going to be Patterson, which is what it is right now, like, doesn't make sense to commit to a guy who's 31 years old to a four or five year team, four or five year deal when you might be looking for futures if Quinn's not going to be here. I just don't know if you can do both things at the same time. And if you do, you might

be looking at a really weird roster in a year's time, where you got all these guys signed and then you have all these young assets you traded for Quinn and you kind of stuck in the middle again. So I think you have to figure out what direction you're taking as a team and it's not going to be a full tear down rebuild.

I think everybody understands that. But could it be a step back for a year or two if you have to make the big decisions? And if that's the case, do you sign a guy like Key for Sherwood? So even Sherwood was a great story for a lot of people are like, man, I don't know if you can do anything about this guy right now. And a lot of times of this thing,

just trade him and get the assets and move forward, which I understand, but I don't think the team is there at this stage again like we're we're months away from any of these guys getting moved sad i know this is exactly what you don't want to talk about right now but i would like to get your opinion on what do you think peterson's market value is right now like if you were to like could you trade them right now could you because the concern i have is you know i hear a lot of people is like well you you can just keep them and that cap hit won't look so bad but if you do go through a transition and you lose Quinn Hughes, like, I don't know if you want to keep

Pedersen on the team because there's a bit of a corrosiveness that occurs when you've got an underperforming player on the team. And, you know, the fan reaction won't be positive as well. And I'm just wondering what you think. Like if you, if they were like, we're looking to get, we're looking to trade Elias Peders. How many, how many takers would there be? Right now, I don't think there are many. I mean, I've asked about this and about, you know, what is it like with Pedersen? And the answer I get is you can't trade him right now. And that's why whatever approach the team is taking is with that in mind,

it's not so much that, oh, we're being nice to TD and being patient with him because we truly believe he's going to come out of this. They don't have a choice. And that's not to say there aren't people that don't believe in him. There are people that do believe in him. There are people that want him to do well. But the only card you have is just CCP can get out of it right now. because you have no other option currently.

And that's why it's hard for me to even, you know, give you a straight answer and what does this trade value look like? Based on things I've heard, I think it's like zero at the moment. Now, maybe you get to a point where things change later in the season and maybe he plays a bit better or teams go through their ups and downs

and you see how hardest their teams are choir players and caps going up. So maybe this off season, there's a situation where somebody may take a flyer, but you're talking about taking money back. You're not making this deal. Like even on days of, if someone takes them off your hands for,

free. Like, I think that ship is sale for the time being. Wow. Like, I don't know if there's a team that's like, I'm going to take him off your hands completely. Like, it's going to be, well, you got to take something off my hands. Like, you still owe this guy, what is the 60 million or whatever? There's 70 million. Somebody's going to want some money off their books to take on that type of commitment. Like, how many owners are signing off? And yeah, let's bring a guy in that's making 11.6 million of struggling. And I'm going to have this on the books for the next five or six years. Like, it's a really tough sell. So I think, you know, anything to do with Pedersen Tradewise is going to have to have. to have a bad contract coming back.

And you can't live in that world right now if you're the Canucks because of where you are with Quinn, but maybe at some point you cut your losses and you say, okay, we have to do it. But at the moment, the only option the team has is to get them out of this funk, and that's what they're focused on. Because there's no other play.

And that's what the point I've been trying to make. It's not so much that I'm like, you got to keep this guy. So I'm like, realistically speaking, what can you do? And the answer is not much. We're speaking to Satyar Shah, I connect Central host here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

Of course, in addition to Connect Central Day, sat doing the pre and post game show. Connect's game 530 tonight, a reminder. It'll be in Nashville against the Predators. You can hear it all right here on SportsNet 650. You know, it's funny. Like if you read the Dunbar Lumber text message in Basket right now, sat, there's a mix of a lot of different motions. There's people that are, and approaches too, not just emotions, but approaches. There's people that are trying to stay optimistic and positive

and pointing out that this stretch of injuries and this rash of injuries, it's unlike what a lot of other teams in the National Hockey League are going through. That part's true. I also think that there is some merit in what the guys on the ice are trying to do right now and that I don't question the effort or the fact that they're going out there and they're doing everything they can to try and manufacture results,

even if it's ugly at times. Like that part I get. At the same time, there are a lot of, people who are like apathy is crept in and i've got time for that i we we discussed this prior to you coming on the show about it just feels like given where we're at in the sports calendar and what we've just kind of gone through and then what last season and the taste that that group left in the mouths of a lot of fans the last thing anybody needed was to come on kind of have a shoulder shrug at the start of the season and i don't think that's any fault the players or the coaches it's just

the build-up of a lot of different things over time. The question is, if and when they get healthy, how big a turnaround could it realistically be? Well, honestly, I think that it can be pretty significant. Again, I don't think they're going to be a quote-unquote cup contender or anything, but the thing that I always keep in mind isn't just the roster that Canucks have and the team they have. It's also relative to the rest of the league.

And, man, watch the games around the National Hockey League. it's about as mid as a league has been in a very long time. The Pacific Division's awful. Well, what about Anaheim? Have you guys been watching Anaheim a lot? I watched the smack around the devil's last night. Yeah, I mean, they're kind of unexpected.

But outside of Anaheim, I would say that Pacific Division is a, it's a disappointment, at least record-wise. It hasn't been great at all. No, it hasn't. I mean, and like, you know, they have some exciting moments, and I think that's the team that can get hot. But, you know, that whole November 1st sat. The Canucks are under 500, but only two points out of a playoff spot.

They're still very much in the race. It's what Elliot says, if you four points or more out, that's when you're in trouble. There are two points out. And I know it's win percentages, but nonetheless, like, they're not in a spot where it's going to be hard for them to make up ground. They're literally a two-game winning streak or three-game winning streak. We're reading right back in it again. And the other part about it is the other teams have a lot of flaws.

And that's just about injuries, but they have a lot of flaws. So I think if this team gets healthy, they can play, if they play at about a 90- point pace, they can make the playoffs. Like, I think that's still a possibility with this group. And I think that maybe changes the perception around the team. But a lot of people that are saying rebuild don't even want to see the playoffs because they're like, to what end? You go to the playoffs, you miss, you make it, you win around, or you're losing the first

round. It doesn't change anything as far, insofar as being a playoff, being a cup contender. And I understand that. But I do think if they get healthy guys, like they can be in a playoff, right? So I don't see a team that is incapable with the goaltending and defense. having Quinn and even having Garland and some of the forwards they have to not be in the race. Like, I don't see this team bottoming out if they get healthy. If they have injuries, that can very well happen.

But if they get healthier and can remain relatively healthy, they are going to be in a playoff race. And a lot of us are going to be because the rest of the Western Conference is pretty average. And there aren't a lot of teams they're going to be pulling away this season. Yeah, it's funny because the Nashville team that they played in the playoffs two seasons ago, that to me was the sort of it was almost like a model of what you can be if you're an otherwise mid team that goes on a heater

remember that that season for Nashville quite famously was Barry Trots and Andrew Burnett ripped their tickets to U2 away they're like no you're playing like crap no you two for you no Vegas trip and then they won what 14 of 16 and that was enough to get them in the playoffs what did they do that was actually you know the surprising thing about they were just happy they were like I don't like you too yeah so thank you for doing

It was a, they were really having, the weight was off their shoulders. They were going to have to do this. Anyway, they got into the playoffs and what happened, they lost in six, and then they had that really weird off season where they were like,

let's go for it. Let's step on the gas and let's sign Stamco's and Marsha. So almost like a warning, like this foreboding thing that don't buy into a season where you got into the playoffs on a three-week heater.

And now, if you look at Nashville, like that's a mess of an organization. I don't know what way they're going, going in what direction they're going. I guess I'm just trying to say, like, making the playoffs is great. We've talked about it a lot. Like, that's probably the high bar for this team and everything. But now you look at it with, again, I come back to like to what end, to what end.

And I know I'm not the first person to bring that up either. No, no. And that's all completely fair and fine, you know. And I think to what end is does Quinn see enough that he says, oh, I'm going to commit to this. even though we didn't get to our ultimate goal, even if we're not where we're at, I see enough growth that I want to give us a try for a few more years. That's the end that we're talking about this season.

And even if the organization won't come on and admit it, that has to be it. I mean, I don't think, you know, Rutherford's been around the league a long time. Patrick Alvine has been around the league a long time. So as the rest of the front office, I don't think they look at this roster and say, we can win a Stanley Cup,

even if they say, hey, anything can happen if you get to the playoffs or the goal team that we have. The end that they're trying to get to is keeping Quinn Hughes here long term. And I know that people are listening right now saying why. He's not staying no matter what. But that's the end we're talking about. And I get it.

If you feel like you have a chance to keep Quinn, I think you play it out and he gets to that point. We don't have all the information. Jim Benning famously told us this a few years ago. Like we don't know exactly what Quinn has said or not said. We don't know exactly where it all stands. So we operate under the assumption of what the team has kind of put out there that nothing's been determined.

Quinn himself has said, we'll see how this season goes. Yeah. So that's what we're basing this. on. Like, let's see how the season goes and let's see what Quinn decides. This season comes down to, can we keep Quinn Hughes? That's ultimately it. Sat, thanks for taking the time to join us.

Enjoy the game tonight. Enjoy this busy month of November. I probably have to apologize, like, sorry about your Browns. That's okay. I mean, right now the biggest heartache is the Blue Jays lost. I can't believe they lost

that World Series. Yeah. It was, it was, I think the most heartbreaking loss that I've ever witnessed and I'm a Seahawks fan a Canucks fan an England fan

and I watched this postseason pretty much as a neutral like you know I kind of said like my Jay's fandom was the most hardcore in the 90s I saw them win the World Series and that was great and I and I kind of wanted them to succeed in the World Series but I watched it

mostly as a neutral and I just like I could not believe the cruelty of that loss. I've never seen anything like it. It's a never-ending nightmare. It's like you stop thinking about the pahas catch, and then you start thinking about all the players that left on two men out.

You think of the eye. As soon as you get one moment out of your mind, another one pops in your head, it's like a nightmare. You can't escape the nightmare. It's the most grueling loss of ever experience. I became a J-Span in 94 after they won the World Series. So I went like 20-some years without even seen them play a playoff game.

And they finally get there in 2015, they don't make it. And this year, it's like the most fun I've ever had being a J-S fan. Like, I couldn't believe how much fun it was. It was awesome. And then it's the most heart, it's the most gut-wrenching loss that I've ever experienced. I don't think you can get any closer to winning a World Series than the Jays did on Saturday night. Sat, thanks for doing this, buddy. We appreciate it.

Have a good one tonight. Anytime, boys, chat. See, Paul. Sentier-R-Shaw. Canucks Central and Canucks pre-and-post game host here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Friendly reminder is we've been building up the excitement and energy around game 4. of the regular season for the Vancouver Canucks. It goes tonight at 5.30 from Nashville, Canucks.

Maybe future Canucks Steve Stamcoast playing for the Predators. 5.30 puck drop. You can hear it all right here on SportsNet 650. I always have trouble keeping track of who's a fan of which teams. Like, Randeep's a Yankees guy, right? That's correct. Isn't a Batcha Dodgers guy? No, Red Sox.

Oh, okay. Yes. All right. Also, can Halfer, can you just stop saying the whole closest you can get without a way in the World Series thing? Like, you said it six times on the show. I'm sorry. It's true.

I know it's true. I'm very aware that it's true, Michael Alford. So I'll preface this by saying, again, I'm sorry that I'm going to say this. But when we talk about 2011, it was equally heartbreaking in terms of how close the Canucks were to winning it, blowing a 2-0 lead, you know, all that. But in Game 7, we have to point out that it was not particularly close ever. Game 7 felt like it was over before Game 7 got started, right? But will these Blue Jays be remembered like the 94 Canucks or the 2011 Canucks? Because I think the 94 Canucks are remembered a lot more fondly because they weren't like

the Rangers in that series were the Dodgers, right? And the Canucks kind of came together as a team. The 2011 team, I shouldn't say they're not remembered fondly, right? But they were the favorites in that series. That was the year they were supposed to win. And they didn't get it done. And it was just, it was ugly. They weren't the warm and fuzzy underdogs.

Yeah. No. No, they weren't. They weren't. And I just, you know, I, I mean, I was going to say, like, I hope you don't experience what we experience after 2011. Like, I don't, I went like, I think like five years, like every day I would think about it in some way, not just, but like for an hour.

I would be like, oh, how could they? It would just come up. You know, I mean, we're also the job that we do. Of course it would come up. But I would just think about it and it would bug me. It would bug me that they didn't win. I'm going to think. Really bother me.

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