Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 1/16/25

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they discuss if the Canucks need to shake up the locker room by trading one of their core players, plus they preview tonight's 'Nucks matchup versus the Kings with The Hockey News' Adam Kierszenblat. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Jeremy at the one-timer got a shot. It was blocked by Myers. Bertuzi gets the rebound and scores. Tyler Bertuzzi completes his hat-trick. How is that? a 40, but then obviously fell apart there. A puck that is in a score!

And it's 900 goals for Alexander O'Exton. I shot it with that and I got it. I swear that. That's why you asked me. 601 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday. Everybody, it is Halpert

at his breath. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming live from the Kintech Studios and beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adal. Good morning. Good morning to you. Good morning to you as well. Hello, hello.

Halford & Brough in the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks. Visit them online at sands-trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle. You get paid.

Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studios. Kintech, footwear, and orthotics, working together with you and step. Got a big show ahead on a Thursday. First hour is all uninterrupted Halbro, as we take you through last night's Kinnock's games. Game, sorry, everything going to happen in the National Hockey League and everything else, that we can jam into the first hour. Our first guest is at 7 o'clock this morning.

Adnan Verk is going to join the program. Our MLB Network Insider, we'll put a wrap on the baseball season and look back on that heartbreaking world series can also look ahead to free agency who's opting in, who's opting out all that and more with Adnan and Verk at 7 a.m. Did you know that the Blue Jays got as close as you could possibly get

to winning the World Series? You could not physically get any closer to winning the World Series than the Blue Jays got. We may revisit it. Did you watch the Jomboy video I sent along? I did not. I'm not ready to do that yet.

A 20 minute opus from Game 7 of the World Series. I highly recommend everyone watch it. It's very good. I'm good things. Okay. 730, Brady Henderson, ESPN, Seahawks inside of the Seahawks. The red hot Seahawks are back at home this Sunday in a battle against division foe, Arizona.

Seattle, a six and a half point home favorite against the cards at Lumen. We'll talk to Brady about all that at 730. Get a scouting report on the new guy, Rashid Shahid, the new wide receiver who was introduced to the media yesterday. Brady Henderson's going to join us at 7.30 for some Seahawks talk. 8 o'clock. Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk. right here on SportsNet 650. Canucks opened their four-game homestand last night

with a 5-2 loss to the Chicago Blackhawks at Rogers Arena. Weird game, but a nice homecoming for Connor Bedard. We'll get into all that and more with the Drancer at 8 a.m. Did you watch crossover with Drancer Dodd, Donnie, and Dolly? Who suggested that Adam Foote should be getting Jack Adams consideration?

I think it was a poll question on Donnie and Dolly. That is, I mean, Wow If you haven't seen the clip Drance essentially shamed Donnie and Dolly into admitting that maybe like the question wasn't the smartest question

Maybe they got a little carried away 100% of the umbrage should be Donnie and Dolly and the question because when you say this have this conversation I don't want to throw shade at foot it's not his fault he didn't ask to be in this conversation but it is a ludicrous idea they're seven and eight

well they were seven and seven at the time they were six and seven at one point anyway we got a lot to get into on the program without further ado laddie let's tell everybody what happened hey did you guys see the game last night no what happened

I missed all the action because I was we know how busy your life can be what happened is it you missed that what happened What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies of us and tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.com. As you heard in the intro, it was Tyler Bertuzi with the hat trick.

All of it in the third period. And the Blackhawks defeated the Chicago or Blackhawks to be the Vancouver Canucks, 5-2 at Rogers Arena on Wednesday night. Yeah, it was an interesting game, entertaining at times. Connor Garland returned to the Canucks lineup and it sure looked early on like he gave them a boost

starting on a line with Elias Pedersen What a freaking boost. You know that was coming? Starting on a line with Elias Pedersen and Evander Kane, the Canucks actually looked like they opened the scoring on their 27th shot of the night and we weren't even halfway through the game I know Halford you were doing double takes

when you looked at the shot clock this Vancouver Canucks team has all those shots. At least five times in the second period. My head whipped around. I'm like, is that right? It was right. But Chicago challenged for goalie interference by Drew O'Connor, and they won the challenge. So it was still scoreless in the second,

and the Canucks, you know what? They didn't even get credit for the shot. So they're down to 26 again. Still a very impressive number of shots on Spencer Knight at that point in the game. And by the end of the second period, they were out shooting Chicago 35 to 20

8 of those 35 shots were by Evander Cain and yet no goals for either team for the Canucks it was actually a franchise record a franchise record for most shots without a goal

through two periods and wouldn't you know it the Blackhawks would open the scoring in the third when Tyler Batuzi used to skate to direct a centering past past Lankan, who was back in goal after two straight starts by Demko. A few minutes later, with Tyler Myers, he had a tough night in the penalty box after, I would say an iffy interference call, but, you know, a shorty set on the broadcast, you know,

the Blackhawks were due to get a power play because they hadn't had one yet. Bertuzzi scored, again, off a fantastic pass by Connor Bedard, who looked a lot better out there. than the last time he played in Vancouver, a lot happier, too. It was yet another power play goal surrendered by the Canucks who really struggled short-handed this season. Blugher and Forward, still out injury, still out-injured. Pew Shooter's not coming back.

Dakota Joshua's not coming back. You know, it wasn't two nothing for long because Ilya McAyev would score less than a minute later. The Canucks, who'd put 35 shots on goal through two periods, We're now trailing 3-0 in the third period and not too long after that Bertuzi completed the hat trick and it was 4-0. Not a great third period, not a great third period at all. Atu Ratu did break Spencer Knight's shutout with three minutes left and we'll take credit

for that one because he was the one to watch. Evander Kane added another one for the Canucksal and his tenth shot of the game but it was too little too late. Connor Bedard scored into the empty net to cap off a solid night for him and his team in his hometown. So the third period is where everything went wrong for the Vancouver Canucks after two pretty promising periods.

So what went wrong in that third period? For this, we turn it over to the head coach, Adam Foote, who as per usual, was trying to protect his guys and put a somewhat positive spin on what was a at the end somewhat negative night. He said that it had to do with a lot of overpressing and maybe some mental fatigue.

Here's Adam Foot now on what went wrong for his team and a 5-2 loss to the Chicago Blackhawks on Wednesday night at Rogers Arena. You know, the first goal was just more, there was a mistake on the goal. And I think the next couple maybe, I don't know if it's mental fatigue and then you allow maybe frustration to come in

and you overpress. We've all been there as players where, you know, you help a buddy out too quick, or you lose a little trust, whatever it is. I'm not telling it was one thing, but you're probably right about, you know, you try to do too much or help or overpress at times. And that could happen in a game where you could easily be up three or four goals in the first two periods, get one called back, and then you're coming off a trip where you have fatigue, and then all of a sudden you might be mentally a little bit frustrated,

maybe. And that could be the outcome, right? So the head coach played all the hits in the post game media availability. Talked about, and I've heard this one a few times this year, the Canucks could have been up three or four nothing in the first period. And not to say that any of this isn't true, by the way,

but we're starting to get the blueprint, the game plan, if you will, for how Adam Foote is going to address the losses, which there are more of them than wins this season. So there's that. He's mentioned mental fatigue and the compacted schedule and the amount of minutes of guys are playing, along with the injuries on a number of times,

and when something goes wrong, it's never not for a lack of trying or trying to do the right thing. Yeah, the mistake on that first goal, I believe he was talking about Tyler Myers, chasing out. Linus Carlson, it looked like he kind of stumbled a little bit and got beaten by a Blackhawks player

and Tyler Myers, in the words of Adam Foote, went to help a buddy out. Yeah. But he got out of position and all of a sudden there were like two Blackhawks all alone in front of the net or at least two Blackhawks with nobody checking them.

Quinn Hughes wasn't in great position there either. But a few people have texted in about Tyler Myers, West End Mike. We need to start talking about Myers. His play led to at least four goals against last night. Where's the load management we were promised? Yeah, he's struggling. Tyler Myers is having a tough go right now. And I don't know if he does get,

taken out of the lineup for arrest. I doubt it. But it's a problem right now. And then so there were two whipping boys last night. I tell you that. Sometimes I log into the Dunbar Lumber text line during the game

just to see what the fan reaction is, just to see what the guys do in the post game are dealing with. And it was Tyler Myers. And it was a guy that gets talked about a lot on this show, Ilius Pedersen. Pierre-Livier-Joseph. Oh, okay.

Pedersen, once again, had little interest in shooting last night. And I know in isolation on a play-to-play basis, you can usually defend his decision to pass. You know, it was, was it in the first or second period? He had a potential breakaway opportunity. Evander Cain did not get the puck to him very quickly. And, you know, he didn't have a lot of speed when he took the pass,

and he ended up trying to pass it back to Evander Kane. The drop pass to Van der Kaine was with 451 left in the first period. In the first period. I felt like it almost set a tone. Yeah. And there were some screenshots going around social media last night, which shows him, you know, like getting the puck and immediately looking for a pass,

not moving his feet or anything like that. Not that you can see moving the feet on screenshots. That's very difficult. Look, it's feeder and cement. Yeah, it's a still image. I'm moving the feet. But another one later in the game, when he made a nice play on the PK to create a turnover

and then immediately he looks for Connor Garland. And listen, on both those plays, I think you can defend in isolation his decision to pass the puck because he might have been caught. And with the way he's skating right now, he's not all that hard to catch. And he knows it.

But look, there's a clear trend and it's getting pretty exhausting to watch. I looked at some stats yesterday. This is a guy that put 257 shots on goal a few seasons ago. He'll be lucky to get half that this season. So we're talking about a guy that used to love to shoot. He would put himself in position to shoot. He had a more, I don't know, energetic stride.

And he was able to, you know, get some separation between now. it feels like every time he gets the puck he's like they're closing in on me they're closing in on me i have no speed i'm trying it's like having one of those dreams where he can't you know he can't run or whatever like it seems like that's the way he's playing so obviously he's going to be looking to pass it's hard to watch it's frustrating to watch and uh you know i do feel bad for him but i also feel bad for the canucks because this is a this is a tough situation that they're in and uh you know I know a lot of people are like, well, you know, maybe you just have him as he's just an overpaid second line center.

And I think, okay, but what does that do to the camaraderie of the group? Right now he's on pace for 126 shots this season. Like this guy did the math, did the quick math, 126, which is wild. Yeah, so 257, and that was the year that he had over 100 points. The peak of his powers. And his shoot, like, and he gets. the other thing too, right, that people sometimes don't think about is he's getting gifted everything.

He's getting, he's always out on the power play, obviously, and then he's got Garland up with him. So he gets gifted the best play driver up front. You know, no one's, no one in the organization dares to say anything, you know, negative about him. Adam Foote has been going out of his way to praise his defensive game. Yep. And his defensive game is, like, he's blocking a ton of shots.

That's, that's, you know, it's good. But it's also, like, you got to score, man. Yeah. You know, you got to, you got to contribute to this thing offensively. And it's like the idea that, oh, you're a sulky player. Do you know what a Selky player does? It's a two-way player. Petey's a one-way player right now.

I was joking the other day, he was like, are you reinventing yourself as Ryan Johnson, as a guy that, like, blocks a lot of shots and doesn't put up any points? Like what if, I mean, where would his point total be if he, if he was actually treated like a second line center that people say, oh, you know, maybe he's just a second line center? Okay, so he's not on PP1 and he doesn't get like any time there's a struggle there. He doesn't get, you know, Connor Garland put on his line to supercharge things. Yeah. And it's an issue because the team just doesn't have the, especially on the offensive side of things, they just don't have the talent, the ability.

the innate goal scoring touch to put pucks in the net with regularity. They can do it in fits and spurts. We've seen it in individual games like the one in Nashville where they were able to put four up on the board. But last night through the first two periods, yes, a lot of that was very good goaltending

from Spencer Knight, by the way, which we should point out. To a certain degree, the Canucks did get goalied last night. He was fantastic. But at the same time, you could make the argument that there was a lack of composure

and finish on some of those. chances that maybe other teams that had higher-end goal scores or guys that were more willing to be more daring with their chances would finish. Now, you can quibble with that back and forth. You could say, hey, when a goalie's on a heater, a goalie's on a heater and nobody's going to score. But what's happening to the team right now is very reflective of what happens to average teams in the National Hockey League, is that they don't find ways to win games that

are hanging in the balance with regularity. They might win the odd one, but they don't with them with regularity. Let's put it this way. Adam Foote's right that the Canucks should have had a lead through 40 minutes last night. Is that fair to say? No one would argue with that. They all played Chicago. They have more scoring chances.

They even put one in the net that was chalked off due to VAR. I'm using all the soccer terminology now. But they should have been up in that game, but they weren't. Now that's a situation and a making of their own doing. And then in the third period, in a game that was still hanging in the balance, they had a clunker. They made a bunch of mistakes And they made mistakes at a time Where they couldn't afford to

It wasn't like they had the luxury of well We can leave Tyler Bertuzi Unattended at the side of the net Because we're up three nothing Not that they would think that way But you can allow for some mistakes Did you see what So Ben Pope is a writer

For the Chicago Sun Times That covers the Blackhawks And when Lucas Reichel Got that breakaway And missed he goes, Lucas Reichael gets behind the Blackhawks defense and Knight denies him on the breakaway. It's still Lucas, that's for sure. Yeah.

And then I looked at the replies. It was like, we've seen that way too many times before. I mean, right. Okay, so last night was a great snapshot. The Canucks second line center was a guy that couldn't get a gig in Chicago. They gave him away for a fourth because they didn't have a spot for him. And then he shuffles off to Vancouver and he's playing 16. 17 minutes a night is a 2C.

I thought Elias Patterson was the Canucks second line center? I don't know who's who right now. Can I just say how funny that would be that people are resigning themselves to that fact? Because now, okay, what? So now we need to go out and get a 1C. The one thing that's harder to do than get a 2C in the NHL, you have to go out and get a 1C. Like, come on, like, what is that? Let's give me a break.

Yeah, it's, I mean, that's why. Like, they live and die by PETA here. I mean, it's just you got to face the facts. Okay, but you're not going to go out and trade for 1C unless you're trading Quinn Hughes. Like, that's it. Like, that's the only guy that would get you a 1C on the team. Let's also face the facts. I don't even think that would get, I don't even think it would get you a 1C.

How would you pull that off? I don't know. I'm just saying he was just the only guy that has the caliber of, you know, the talent level to do that. I know it's our cottage industry to focus on EP 40, but quite frankly, at this point, like. Yeah, he's got to throw your hands, I know. I would love to look at some other parts of this thing because right now. Look at, look at some of the decks on the tito, or the deck chairs on the Titanic? Well, it's more than that. I mean, like, okay, here's one.

What's going on with Lankinen, everybody? He's started six games this year, and four of the six, he's giving up four goals or more. You're not winning hockey games if you're starting netminers giving up four plus with that kind of regularity. Go check out St. Louis,

and we'll do it on the other side because we'll go through some of the NHL stories. I thought this was the best goalie tandem in the NHL. Right? That's the thing. Hey, remember the mantra, though. If everything goes exactly how we need it to go, things will be all right. So there's nothing baked into the equation

for Lankin and all of a sudden, and not being able to get them a win. And you want to talk about the defense right now, a lot of people into the Dunbar Lumber text message in basket, and I wouldn't say as many that are complaining about Pedersen, but there's a lot of complaints about 43 and about Quinn Hughes right now and where his game is at. Defensively, it's not terrific.

Defensively, I think he looks a little loose in his own end, but maybe he's, I don't know, maybe there's some fatigue there. Physical fatigue. Mental or physical, who knows. How about both? Yeah. You know, I imagine the mental load of being captain of this Canucks team while also wondering about your future. And he can say, like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm focused on the Canucks right now.

Uh-huh. Okay. You know, like, I'm sure you're not thinking about your future at all. What human being thinks about his future? I live day to day. That never causes anxiety in anyone, right? Thinking about the future? And I, you know?

Okay, so what I think is. I live day a day myself, honestly. I know you do. But you're unusual. What I think is going to be frustrating in the coming months for ardent followers and fans of this team is that this is kind of exactly what they are designed to be. This is what an average team looks like. Because we said this after they beat Nashville with two seconds left in overtime.

We're like, that's a win. They were able to scratch and claw one out. They won two of three on the road. They come back and there's another loss. Go look at their last, I think it's last six games. with amazing, amazing accuracy, they've interchanged wins and losses. They've gone win loss, win loss, win loss,

and you could say good performance, bad performance, gutty performance, disappointing performance. Like, this is what an average hockey team looks like. They've got talent enough to scratch and claw and get some points out of teams when they need them, and they're going to fight to keep their heads above water, and when Demko's playing, he'll keep them in a lot of games.

But this is what they're, they were designed to be at full, health, they were designed to be above average. Not great. Maybe good, but definitely above average. If they are 100% healthy, and everything goes their way. Now, unfortunately, you could almost scratch that last part off the list.

Everything goes their way because Heedl's not here, and I'm not sure he's coming back. Wasn't Petterson part of that? Like, Pedersen having a huge bounce back? Was everything going their way? Pedersen, huge bounce back. Heidel playing 2C and Demcoe and Lankin being the best goalie tandem in the league.

I think we're the big three for reasons for optimism at the beginning of the year. I mean, what's happened? What about a new system from the head coach? Yeah, and improve vibes. Yeah.

Right? Good vibes across the board. They don't, doesn't look like the vibes are great right now. Looks like they're average like the rest of the team. It's an average hockey team. So when...

Hughes looks just exhausted. But people are... Yeah, he does. But you know what? I try it ought to... I try not to read too much into the post game thing. Like he's always looked tired. He's always looked like a college kid that's, you know,

been dragged out of bed. Well, that's why I said more than usual. He looks more tired than he normally does. And he's also just like played half the game. So I don't expect him to like bounce down the hallway to go talk to the reporters. But yeah, he, you know, he doesn't look happy, does he? Yeah. The point I'm really trying to make here is that, you know,

We can't keep doing this every single post game where we come in in the morning. And after a win, we're like, well, maybe. And then after a loss, we're like, no, I don't think so. But that feels exactly what this team is built for, because they are going to alternate wins and losses for a long time this year. I don't know. I would sooner bet on them, I would sooner bet on, like, the house of cards falling than them going on a heater. But here's what's going to happen.

And I actually would, if there's three scenarios, right? Like one, one is a heater. The other one is treading water. And the third is the House of Cards falls apart at some point. I'm going with the ladder. Okay, I'm going with the... You're going with the treading water? Yeah, because you know what's going to happen now, right?

Blugher's going to come back in and Forward's going to come back in. It's going to clean up the penalty kill a little bit. And maybe they'll start leaning on Demco a little bit more than they have. Because right now it's pretty clear that Demco gives you the best chance to win. And then... So, no... None of us are choosing heater. No one's, they're not, I mean, and you know what?

If they go on a heater, it'll probably follow it up by a series of games where they don't get the result that they need. It's just how they're built to be. And it's frustrating. And I get it. And I know that we had the apathy conversation earlier, but it's front and center now because once again, the Canucks are, you know, the front forward team in the market. White Caps, I mean, we're talking about the White Caves and we'll talk about them on

the other side of the break. They still don't play until the 22nd, right? So it's going to be a lot of Canucks coming at you over the next little bit. And I got a feeling that this is how it's going to be. One step forward, one step back, win, loss, win loss, win loss. Canucks are like, get to the Grey Cup lions. Seriously? Get to the Grey Cup.

Saturday's game is huge, baby. For the Canucks. Yeah. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. What we just have to call Thomas Dran's erotica. Thomas Grant Erotica Korsi

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PEDYO Thomas Drens Deronica 8.03 on a Thursday Happy Thursday, everybody, Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650 Halford and Brub of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Score a debt freedom hat trick, one, no more interest,

two much lower payments than three. Financial peace of mind. Visit them online at Sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour three of the program. Thomas Drance from the athletic Vancouver and Canucks Stock is going to join us in just a moment here to kick up our three. Hour three is brought to by Campbell and Pound real estate appraisers. Trust the expertise

of Campbell and Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell dash pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio, Kintech Footwear and Orthotics working together with you in step and A-Dog posting yet another Pedersen video has got the... Oh no.

I mean like it's so predictable. Oh, no. Here's a reply. Hey, let's bash him some more. Get something else to talk about. We talk about a lot of things. It's just that A-Dog only posts the videos online when it's about Elias Pedersen.

Think of this show in the last little while. We talked a ton of baseball with the Blue Jays. Yeah. Talked a lot of white caps. A lot. Both on the field and off. We talked about the BC Lions and how. They've turned things around.

They've got a big game against Saskatchewan this weekend for a trip to the Grey Cup. So we're talking more and more about them. But every time we talk about Pedersen, Adog's like, that's the video for the day. Now, Adog, tell them what else happens every time you put up a video of Pedersen. We get lots of clicks and people seem to really enjoy the content. So like when people... It's an evil, evil, evil circle that we're in here. So when when you complain that how...

for an imbrough are just doing things for the clicks it's not actually us it's a dog he is the evil mind behind I could post the pause

but that doesn't fit my narrative so yeah yeah he is the he's the evil he's the evil guy behind the scenes right no one expects him I thought he just liked

candy and cats no no respects the butterfly it's it's you just we just encompass social media that you we just the entire thing how it's supposed to work right

There's lots of good quality content we could put out there. Yeah, well, that's not as entertaining. He's also left out the fact that the guy who's chirping him about that has about 1,600 numbers in his username. That's about sums up. Those are the guys you have to take most seriously. Of course. The more the numbers, the better, really, when it comes to the usernames.

Do you have a read you need to do before we get to Dr. No, I already did it. Oh, good. Okay. To the phone lines we go. Thomas Dr. Thomas Trance from the Athletic Vancouver and Kinnockstock joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. What up, Drancer?

Adog needs a jingle for his click-date Pedersen video of the day. Oh, my God. That's what you need. That would be extremely meta. It's a good idea. It's time to bash him. Do you want to start with the Kadax or their Jack Adams caliber coaching? Where do you want to go first?

Oh, come on. Yeah, I mean, we can start where you want. Here's where I'd start to be honest with you gentlemen. I thought Quinn Hughes, you know, talking about that. you know, Spencer and I played well, but did you see any, and I loved the word outlandish. Did you see any outlandish saves last night from him, right? No, he saw the puck way too easily. Way too easily.

And, you know, I mean, Garland crossed crease after he picked off that pass on the power play, sick play, by the way. That was a great save by night. He got Reichel on the breakaway, although, you know, Reichel's finishing game is hit and miss I'm more miss

McKayev like I don't know McKay have scored last I was going to say like McKayev at least has that backhand move on on breakways right like so anyway

the truth is is that the shot counter tells you one story of the game and I do think the Canucks were the better team in the second period. But this was a game in which the Canucks and the Blackhawks at best looked evenly matched, right, at best. And then the Canucks broke in the third period, right? And the Blackhawks broke them. I mean, the Blackhawks hit them for the exact same seam pass to find Bertuzi back door twice.

Yeah. And then, you know, there was an awful lot of puck watching on both the McKayev and the second Bertuzi goals, right? And then the Canucks score two in quick succession in garbage time to make the outcome look better than it was. It was, you know, a really dismal 10 or 12 minute performance in which, you know, the Blackhawks having bent but not broken in the second period broke the Canucks thoroughly shattered them. And, you know, I was watching that game and talking to my athletic colleague, Mark Lazarus, a bit. and, you know, after the second period, the thing I said to him was like, the meanest thing I can say about either team is that they're evenly matched, right? And this is where, this is where I think it's time for this market, right?

And this organization and most importantly, Kinnock's ownership, to take a deep breath, look at the NHL standings consider what happened last night and ask yourself the following question have the Anaheim Ducks the zombie Phoenix Coyotes now the Utah Mammoth

the Chicago Blackhawks teams mired in long rebuilds disciplined rebuilds rebuilds that haven't even gone well have those teams now passed the Vancouver Canucks right like that's the question this organization should be preoccupied with that should be keeping them up at night like in the

are we even seeing the ducks and the Chicago Blackhawks in the rearview mirror anymore right or have these teams been able to rebuild and slingshot past us again because you knew it was going to happen eventually it was just a matter when it was going to happen right I mean, I think so. Like, I think we knew that. But I don't know that the reality, the reality of how stuck you get, right,

when you're constantly trying to win from the middle, right, is I think something that people have talked about for a long time. We saw the Kings, like, you know, my time back in Vancouver covering this team six years now. You know, the kings were like the example that I'd point to of like, look, they rebuilt and they're better than the Canucks now, right? They made the playoffs five straight years. They haven't even done a good job with it, right? They didn't even hate on their draft picks. They drafted like Alex Turcott in the top five and he's a good role player.

Quentin Byfield's awesome, but like he's, you know, not a dude, not a capital D dude. He's not Celebrini. He's not baddard, right? Brandt Clark hasn't turned into a top pair guy I mean and those are their three those are their top 10 picks yeah like they've missed on all of them they've still made the playoffs five straight years because they spent four years being disciplined about rebuilding right I mean it's a powerful tool even if you don't hit on the dude

and when you do right when you when you do or when you hit in bulk I mean it can happen for you pretty quickly And so I just sort of look at this and think, this is, if you're never aspiring to anything, you're never going to build anything. And that was the fear that I come out of last night with is like, wow, it's Chicago in the rearview mirror even, like this Chicago team that looked like a complete tire fire 12 months ago. They get a credible NHL coach in. They hit on a couple more dudes, a couple more guys, like a couple more guys.

good players, a Renzel, an Oliver Moore here, right? Like not huge stuff, right? The Lebschunov, their number two overall pick, picked the head of Demadov. Like, that doesn't look like a great decision. Yeah. Right? They've got that Anton Ferndel guy who's not even there. He's a year

away, at least. So, like, they've got more coming, and they haven't even done a great job of it. And the power of having a guy like Connor Bedard in your lineup, right? The power of of that is still so so potent in this league that

you know another team can do smarter stuff than you can you know on and on and you're still going to have a shot to slingshot past them over not even that long a time horizon two or three years okay I'm glad I'm glad you're going down this road because I think sometimes everyone looks at the Canucks purely through the prism of the Canucks and they don't take the wide lens view and be like look at what else is happening around the league.

And I just want to bring out, you talked about to have the Blackhawks slingshotted past the Canucks. I look in the division, I'm looking at what Celebrini is doing already. I'm like,

how much longer is it before? Now you've got to talk about well, we're in a division with McDavid and Celebrini. And I don't think that's hyperbolic at this point because what he's doing, he's tied with McDavid

for the NHL scoring lead. He scores three points almost every night. And I know, you know, I know, I know, San Jose still kind of down bad, but they're also, I think, a 4-1-1 in their last six, and they look

like they're going to turn it around relatively quick. To what end, I'm not sure, but they absolutely hit on Celebrini. He's the first overall pick, but he absolutely hit on him. And Will Smith looks awesome. And he's in the division. They're in the division. Do you want to hear a crazy stat? I do. I love crazy stats. Okay.

In the last six years, the Canucks have drafted in the first round three times. Right? Yep. Chicago has drafted 13 times in that same time span. Right. I mean, the thing that boggles the mind about the Canucks is they operate like they're going for the Stanley Cup. If you look at the number of draft picks that they've traded away.

And you can say like, yeah, but those got good players. But yeah, to one end. Did you ever get like a great bargain on them, though? You know, well, a lot of the times when you trade away these first round draft picks, you're bringing a guy and you almost immediately have to pay for them. So. Right.

But, you know, I just go back to, you know, even that 2011 team, that team wasn't put together with a draft and developed strategy. I know they had the Cedines and I know they drafted Kessler, but like they also went out there and made some big moves. moves, you know, some big, you could say, impatient or the other way, the other side of the coin would be aggressive moves, you know, making the trade for Luongo. I mean, they tried a little with Matt Sundeen. They signed Dan Hamhus in free agency, Michael Samuelson in free agency. They made a smart trade with San Jose to get Air Hoff in. So it feels like even when they put together

a good team, the strategy kind of has always been the same under this ownership group. And I just wonder, you know, when we talk about this, like, is it ever going to change? Yeah, I don't know, right? I don't have the answer for you. I don't understand how it could not just because it's so obvious what's ailed this franchise across the last six years is just an inability to take a beat to leverage, you know, honestly leverage the, power of patience to accumulate talent in a league where a lot of teams, most teams, operate like the Canucks do in any given season, where they want to make the playoffs, where they want to win, right? You can, you know, teams will pay Peter,

will rob Paul to pay Peter. And, you know, it would sure be nice to be Peter just once if you're watching this Canucks team operate. So, you know, look, it was a thought that I couldn't escape as I reviewed what I thought about the game last night. It's just like, even Chicago, right? Even Chicago, 12 months removed, not even six months removed from being like the watchword for why you shouldn't rebuild. Remember when they came into Vancouver late last year? They looked dreadful. And the Canucks beat them six to two and Bedard looked.

I mean, he ended up taking a misconduct and getting kicked out of the game. I think he was just so frustrated. He was so, so frustrated, yeah. But, you know, look at the work he's put in, right? And the skating speed that he's reached. I mean, he could have had, this is the other part of, like, the Canucks were dominant,

look how many shots they got. It's like, but Art could have had a hat trick in the first period. He was slicing them up every single shift. Every single shift, he was generating a quality opportunity to score, right? The Canucks generated shots in the first period, but they were surrendering a ton, right? Like, this team hasn't played good hockey, no matter who's been in the lineup all year. That's the other truth of this, right? As much as we want to say, there's injury context here, and, like, it was fun to watch them stormed

Dallas in that second period, and then beat Washington and, you know, hang on against Chicago, that three-game win street before Heidel got ruined. And even if we accept that once they lost Heedle, they fell beneath a search. baseline of credible NHL level centermen and that context has to be considered here and all of that's there. The truth is that they haven't played good hockey no matter who's

been in the lineup all season long. And, you know, I don't know what that means, right? It hasn't been a huge sample. It's not like we're confident or I'm confident that Chicago is going to end the season with more points than the Canucks. But you

watch the two games that these teams have played over the course of this year. and you think it's possible. In fact, you know, like, I'd put it at even money. I don't think the Canucks are materially better than the Chicago Blackhawks team. And I don't think the Chicago Blackhawks team is making the playoffs. So, you know, follow that logic. And you'll kind of get your answer.

Yeah, I mean, the injury thing now at this point, I'm like, okay, well, last night's team, you're missing Bluger, Forbort, and Hoaglander. Because I don't think Heel's anywhere close to coming back. And I'm not sure he's going. going to come back. So I'm almost ruling that out. And yeah, that's unfortunate and that's too bad, but that's also one top nine caliber guy.

And it's also a team banking on a guy that had this issue was out there from years ago, right? So it was an inherent risk coming into the season. So if you're going to play the risk game, you have to understand that it might not go your way. That's just, and I get what you're saying.

Like he's a, I mean, he's a two see and name only in some, you know, way, shape, or form, because he's not necessarily that guy. I mean, Hoaglander's a top nine guy. Like, Hoaglander, I would love to watch a Hoaglander shift right now. Like, I would love to watch a fast Kinnock's player who can score and is going to win a ton of battles. Play a shift.

I mean, that's a guy who can help you turn momentum on any given night. And maybe you can threaten to finish the season between 35 to 45 points, depending on power play time, right? Yeah. Like, I would love to watch that, right? like Hoaglander's a good player. Bluger would help the penalty kill, but he's a fourth line guy. Derek Forbert's a third pair guy

and would definitely help the penalty kill. But if you're putting him in and taking Elias Petterson out, I know Pedersen was scratched last night, but Pedersen's been good on the season. You know, I don't, that's not like leaps and bounds. You're not leaps and bounds better because you have Forbert back over Pedersen. And when you're injured,

if you look around the league, there are countless examples of teams that have either their star players step up and shoulder more of the load or roll guys step up and perform above their heads. Now, the latter I could say, well, you can't necessarily expect that. But in this instance, you can start looking around. And I'd be like on a team that desperately needs players to step up, like, where's DeBrusk in all of this? Like he hasn't played any better. He hasn't performed above his head. He hasn't gone beyond expectations.

he's kind of been the same sort of peripheral player and if the argument is going to be well he doesn't have the players around him to make him better it's like well but that's not the right answer to this thing because injuries are going to happen a lot you need guys to step up not become wilting flowers in the moment let's I mean let's talk about a guy who has been

I think Vancouver's second best skater on the season right second or third and that's Philipronic right to contextualize this entire conversation Philopronic has four points, the most of any Canucks defenseman five-on-five this season. He's playing 25 minutes a night, right? The Canucks have 13 goals when Peronix on the ice and only five against five-on-five. Given how this team's minus 10 overall cold differential, like, kudos to him, right?

He's played well. He stepped up. He's played awesome hockey. Maybe, you know, penalty kills probably the only blemish. but you can live with it point is this guy has played like a top pair defenseman he is played like a top pair defenseman with Hughes or without Hughes

right this guy's been awesome awesome and you know we we sort of come back to that trade probably the best version of the trading draft picks for a player

right like you can't come up with a better version of it than that well Detroit has a top four right-handed defensemen in their lineup on an entry-level contract right now from that trade, right? Two years on, right? Like, would the Canucks be better off given their sort of the state of their franchise with Hironic in the lineup? Absolutely crushing it or with, you know, two guys from that draft class, right? Without the pressure to pick a defenseman at 11, do they take Zach Benson? Do they have a young forward in the lineup?

Right? Do they take ASP, you know, with the pick that they traded for him? Who's going to be just a step? Are they in a better spot then? I mean, this is what I'm talking about. This is the thing where it's like you can absolutely crush the trade, win it decisively, and still not end up moving forward if it's not the right thing for your franchise in the big picture. and to what end that's always that's all that's all isn't always that the question like when with the connects like to what end what are you what are you going to where are you going to where are you going to go with this i remember saying that with j t miller and it was like you know he played well for vancouver you're really good and i know and i know a player of historic significance for the franchise and then to one end you know it just yeah they won two playoff rounds yeah in his tenure in which he was one of the top 10 scoring players

and like acquired as a winger ended up becoming a hundred point center right like top 10 center i mean a 99th percentile outcome in terms of what he contributed um at a different position than he was acquired to play and on and on right go down the list of things that happened that made miller a larger than life figure and they win two playoff rounds across his seven Canucks seasons. So what's the lesson there, Dranser?

Got to accumulate, man. You've got to be willing to accumulate and look, this team will spend to the cap, right? But sometimes the investment needs to be in non-player personnel if you're going to build a winning organization. Like sometimes you've got to look at the bigger

picture. And sometimes the investment, is we're going to take two years without there being win now pressure on this team. We're going to make sure that we take advantage of selling at the trade deadline instead of not doing so. We're going to be willing to trade good players at the peak of their value as opposed to making the argument that we can't live without XYZ middle six winger who's run hot, right? Tanner Pearson extension, stuff like that in non-contending years because what we want are the picks, the volatile assets, the, well, we're not sure what it is. It's like, yeah, that's the good thing about it, right? That's the good thing. You need to go out and have some wins and have

some misses, but you need to make those volatile bets in volume. And the reason for it is that you need a lot, you need a lot to win in this league and you need a lot more than you've got. have, there's no cavalry coming in free agency, right? There, you can try to trade your way out of it, fine, but, you know, like, there's been a lot of trades that Jim Rutherford and Patrick Albine have made that have worked. There have been a lot of value free agent signings, depth guys that have come in and been more than depth guys, you know, your Dakota Joshua is your key for surewood tier guys. Like, this, this management group has executed decently well, right?

They've made good draft picks. They've made a lot of good trades. They've, you know, got core players. We weren't sure we're going to sign and stay to sign and stay. Like a lot of the execution's been fine. But because they've, you know, in my opinion, missed on the big picture, right? You still end up in this zone where sort of entropy rules and it's impossible to escape the middle. It's just a slow slide back.

a slow, like, matter of decay. Oh, it's another week on SportsNet 650. Dranser, thanks a thing. Another week of decay. Yeah. It's almost Friday. Dr. Answer, let's be real. Let's be real.

We're doing sports talk radio on, on an AM, um, on an AM wavelength. Like, decay is our business, boys. Yeah, it's true. Slowly with our way. We're barely hanging on ourselves with our commitment to mediocrity. Yeah. I'll enjoy the weekend, Drans,

and we'll do this again next Thursday. Here's my life. See what I'm Thomas Trans from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks Talk here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet, 650. Oh, God, I'm depressed. Well, it happens. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.