Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 12/12/24

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they talk the recent deferential play of every Canuck other than Quinn Hughes, plus they set up tonight's home matchup versus Florida, as Canucks Talk host and The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance joins the show.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. It's a few guys are the same guys that are repeat offenders. And that's what I think that that's what upsets the staff. And I think we've got to make sure that we clean that up. Unconscionable. I don't even understand what just happened. Reasonable expectation of a rush chance coming down your team's throat.

Well, that was a little too much for me. I've heard there are five teams still in on Burns, and I certainly believe it. He's an ace pitcher. I can't even believe it. Good morning, Vancouver. 6-0-1 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody.

This is Alfred and his brother, Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello.

Alfred and Bradford in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling.

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Kintec, we got a big show ahead of a big Thursday in the world of sports. 14, 14 NHL games tonight. Thursday night, football tonight. It's a good night to stay inside and work in your couch groove. We will get the guest list underway at 7 o'clock today, which means the first hour of this show

is uninterrupted. Halbro, 7 o'clock, Nick Kiprios is going to join the program. Host of Kipper and Born on Fan 590. Trade board, Kipper's trade board 1.0 dropped yesterday on Sportsnet.ca. A lot of interesting material in there, including a bit on Brock Besser. So we'll talk to Kipper about that. At 7.30, George Richards is going to join the program.

Florida Hockey Now. It is the Canucks hosting the Panthers tonight. 7 o'clock from Rogers Arena. A reminder, Canucks Central is at 4. Pre-game show is 6. Actual puck tonight. 7 o'clock from Rogers Arena. A reminder, Canucks Central is at 4. Pre-game show is 6. Actual puck drop at 7 o'clock. You can hear it all right here on Sportsnet 650. Speaking of Sportsnet 650,

Thomas Drance of Canucks Talk and the Athletic Vancouver is going to join us at 8 o'clock today. Drancer went a little viral yesterday. Yeah, he had a day yesterday. He had a verbal sparring session with Rick Dollywall. It was everywhere. That was so funny.

Everyone was kind of teaming up on Dollywall. Donnie loved it. He's like, let's get him. We're also giving away tickets to see Creed and Big Wreck. Let's not forget Big Wreck and all this. The Summer of 99 Tour is on Saturday, August 16th, 2025. Note the start date. Relive the glory days of 1999.

At Rogers Arena, we're going to give away a pair of tickets every day this week. We've been doing it. We will continue to do it today and tomorrow. Caller number 5 at 8.15 this morning. The number 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650. We're going to give away tickets at 8.15 to caller number five.

So if you're listening live or you're listening via podcast or you're recording it and playing it back on cassette, you now know at 8.15 this morning, caller number five will win a pair of tickets to see Creed and Big Rex Summer 99 Tour in August. A reminder, tickets go on sale tomorrow for this.

10 a.m. at Ticketmaster. Okay, that's what's happening on the program today. Drancer at 8. George Richards at 7.30. Kiprios at 7. That is the program. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. What happened? I missed all the action because we know how busy your life can be what happened you missed that what happened what happened is brought to you by the bc construction safety alliance making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools resources and safety training visit them online at bccsa.ca the canucks practiced yesterday ahead of today's very interesting, tonight's very, very, very interesting game against the Florida Panthers.

Some notable developments from the practice. JT Miller skated as an extra forward. The deep pairings were all jumbled up, and Mark Friedman is on his way back to Abbotsford. Take it away, Jason. Yeah, well, it didn't look yesterday like Miller would play tonight against the Panthers, but I suppose you never know,

especially with this team and this situation. Miller did not address the media. We wondered if he might since he was, you know, practicing with the team, but I guess since he practices as an extra forward,

they didn't deem it necessary for him to meet the media or he wasn't ready to meet the media. Of course. Or he wasn't ready to meet the media. As for the D pairs, they'll likely change after, as you noted, Friedman was returned to Abbotsford following the practice. But we still don't know if Forbort or Brandstrom or both will return to the lineup. Taka called Forbort a strong possibility to return,

but here's the thing. He was skating with Friedman at practice, so I don't know. Friedman's not even on the team anymore. Who knows? I suppose if Forbort isn't quite ready, it's possible they go Hughes with Myers, Soucy with Julsen, Branstrom with Darnay. That's a combination they've done before,

and I suppose they could go back to it. On Miller, Talkett would only say that he is getting close and that he doesn't know the exact date of his return. He said he talked to Miller in the evening, I guess on the phone or texting, I don't know. He didn't rule out Miller playing against the Panthers, but I don't know, if he's not taking regular line rushes. This whole thing, again, this whole thing has been unusual to say the least. As for the actual game tonight and how

his team was playing, do you remember Tuckett came in when he took the job and he said game management has to improve. Yep. And that was when we used to kind of joke about the Canucks they'd have like a one goal lead in the third period and they'd be making fancy plays of the blue line like drop passes risky plays risky cross-sized passes you You'd be like, come on guys. You don't have to go into a shell, but you have to make smart plays when you're playing with the lead. This was a little bit different when he was talking about game management, but he was kind of saying, look, game management is something that I've really struggled with with our team this year. He said, I'm not sure a high-risk play when a guy like Robert Thomas

or Nikita Kucherov is on the ice is such a good idea, and we have to get better at it. Last year, we were really good at it. This year, I think we've been a bit loose on that. And that just kind of goes to the overall theme with the Canucks. Yeah, they've had injuries. Yeah, they've been missing some key players. But I think the other thing is, and this is possibly for a few reasons. Number one, maybe this is difficult to do and they're just like, okay, fine, we'll do it. And

number two, they got a bunch of new players. Yeah, I think that's part of it. But, you know, like Tuckett also said, we got to get back to our team identity and the thing is that i'm kind of getting at is like they don't seem to be doing the things that they were doing last year no and i'm not talking about staying healthy which they did but just their attention to detail um their coverage in front of their own net, things like game management. I mean, that would probably include taking a too-many-men-on-the-ice penalty in a tie game with a few minutes left. Those types of penalties can't happen.

There does just something. There seems to be something more than a little off about this team. That's all. Yeah. I, you know, it's when we talked yesterday about what, when Rick talk,

it identifies what the issues have been with this team this year. There's always these very specific moments in games that he points to. And I think this, you know, quote that we're picking here kind of underlies that where he talks about like making a high risk play when a certain player is on the ice like i think he realizes right now that his team if they're gonna have the kind of success that they had last year they're going to have to pay way more attention to the script as laid out that the way that they play the style of game that they employ is not going to be something that's going to give them a ton of

scoring chances and i think the underlying theme here is a ton of opportunities to outscore their problems or outscore the mistakes they make like we don't have the wiggle room to make a lot of these mistakes because we're not going to score the goals to compensate for them we're not going to possess the puck enough we're not going to have enough chances off the rush we're not going to have enough high danger chances. We just don't play that way. Well, they don't play that way under Talkett and right now they don't have the personnel to do it

because they don't have the defensemen that can move the puck up to the forwards aside from Quinn Hughes and they don't have JT Miller in the lineup. Yeah. Let's play some audio from Talkett's media availability yesterday on Elias Pettersson. We'll pick it up on the other side. Talk it yesterday. No, no, no, hold on.

Hold on a sec. Hold on a sec. I don't want to just play this. I want to explain this, okay? Okay, explain. So the Canucks scored a power play goal against the St. Louis Blues. Now, the penalty killing is another issue, and they've got to clean that up because they've allowed three

in the last couple of games. But how many times have we talked about the the power play and talked about how when they do manage to get possession of it in the offensive zone it seems to be like all right we're gonna pass it around the perimeter we're gonna pass it around the perimeter we're gonna pass it around the perimeter nobody's gonna shoot some of you aren't even gonna look like you're gonna shoot you're just gonna pass it and defer to the other guy and eventually defer to you-know-who Quinn Hughes at the point. And Quinn is finally going to throw his arms up in the air and go, all right, fine, I'll do some tap dancing at the point,

and I'll throw it on net. He likes to fling it. Everyone gets what I'm talking about here, right? That's like often the Canucks power play, and Quinn seems to be the only guy that really, really, really, really wants to shoot. We talk about it a lot. We talked about it, and what did we say?

Everyone looks so deferential. They're deferring to the other guys. I thought it was interesting yesterday. Tockett said the exact same thing, and he talked about how when Petey actually, I mean, he didn't shoot, but he put it towards the net. And then Pareko put it in his own goal. But even if Pareko wasn't there, Garland was there for the easy goal.

The point was the puck went towards the net. Right. Not towards Quinn Hughes. Not towards or not to just like, all right, I got it. I'll pass it on to the next guy. Like it's not a game of hot potato. The idea is to put the puck towards the net eventually. And so when Pedersen.

This is like a cool wet sack thing. Put puck on net. Well, honestly, I. Oh. Don't you think Talkett feels like. I was going away from the net. Garbage in garbage can. He's teaching that class right now.

It's so ridiculous so here's Rick Talkett on not just not this isn't about Pettersson

okay this is just about the entire team as a whole like I told P I love the fact that he threw the puck

the net there if if if Pareko doesn't have a stick there I think Garland scores that's the play I think we're

getting more of those type of goals. Jake on the road trip got a few goals in the power play around the paint. We're not passing around. We're not deferring. No, we're having sometimes, you know, we're not liking the power play because we are deferring too much. But that play to me is a big play. And whether Millsy comes back, we got to still have the same mentality.

I can just imagine Talkett going up to Petey after he was like, yeah, yes. I mean, you didn't shoot it. You kind of. You passed it, but like it went towards the net. And, you know, I think that's one of the things about that we've all seen from Pettersson on the power play. You know, he doesn't look like he's even trying to shoot. Like he's not even setting up in one of those one-timer positions.

He's just kind of, he's on the perimeter. He's like, okay, I'll take the puck and give it over to the next guy, right? Like he did rip one off the crossbar, and that's good. I was like, when I saw that, I was like, yes, more of that. Do you remember a few games ago? It seems like a while ago now. He actually did score on a one-timer on the power play. We're all like, oh, maybe that'll start something.

Maybe that'll start the confidence. So anyway, whenever we talk about this, we go into this long roundabout. Why isn't he shooting? And someone will text me and be like, I think he's got a wrist injury or something like that. And you're just like, oh, I can't do this anymore. Putting too much pressure on the knee. Right? Yeah.

So I just thought it was interesting that Taka used the same language that we've been using on the show a lot, and that would be like deferring or deferential. He wants guys to play more like Quinn Hughes, who is definitely not deferential. He's like, okay, fine, I'll do it. Like more of that from the key players. There's two jumping off points here that are bigger picture than just talking about the power play.

And the first one to me is that right now, I know that there's been a lot of criticism, dare I say, blowback of Rick Tockett's coaching through the first quarter mark of this season. We see a lot of it in the Dunbar-Lombert text message in basket. If you watch social media, you'll see more of it than last year for sure. This year, I would go as far as to say he's had a tougher time getting his guys to do the things that he wants done. I think in year one, and when he came on board after Boudreaux and then the full season,

I think he had a group that was, I don't want to say more willing to listen, but maybe more open to taking coaches' suggestions because they weren't having any success. Were they more desperate? Possibly. And don't you think that was interesting? I don't know if you and I have ever discussed this but what about patrick alvin when he said that they came into training camp with a lack of humility i think that's part of it i think that they thought that we maybe not thought but maybe just acted like winning was going to be um as commonplace

as it was last year it wasn't easy because they worked hard to win last year but winning was commonplace last year they won a lot more games than they lost. And maybe that just assumed with like, well, we have our core guys in place. We have a style that we want to play. And then we added all these pieces in free agency. Everything should work, even with the injuries. And people didn't join the team thinking that they were joining a team that had to play desperate.

They thought they were joined. The guys, the new guys that were joining a team, they were like, oh, this team's on the up and up. They were going to take their had to play desperate. They thought they were joining, the guys, the new guys, they were joining a team that was like, oh, this team's on the up and up. They were going to take their next step in their evolution. Tauket has said countless times in his post-game media remarks about what he's asking the guys to do, what he wants them to do, and what he needs them to do. He's got a very clear vision, I think,

of how he wants them to play hockey. And it's probably, it looks a lot more like what they did last year, for sure, than what's happened through the first few games of this season, where they got the lopsided scores and the five and six and seven goals against. That never happened last year, right? They played a much more buttoned down style. The other part of it is that, and we've talked about this at length, this team is going to be decided in the early stages by three guys, Pedersen, Hughes, Miller, and then the fourth guy is Demko. I mean, I know that you have surrounding parts to a team, but guys come and go. Your core is your core. Right now, when you talk about deferring, it just feels like everything is being deferred to Hughes.

Not necessarily in a bad way, because he's the best player on the team. Well, especially with Miller not being there because Miller is the type of guy that won't... Miller is... We talk about his gunslinging style. 100%. Which can be a good thing most of the time,

but a bad thing. But when he's not there, it's all on Hughes pretty much. And Garland, I suppose. And when he's in the lineup, he's not really a deferential type personality. No. He grabs games by the scruff of the neck.

He will take the puck and go do things. Hughes is doing that right now. I think maybe when the Pedersen conversation does happen, a lot of people are saying, be that third alpha or whatever. Be that guy where you watch Hughes and he's like, everyone's putting the puck on his stick because they know that he can make things happen. They want that from Pedersen.

When Miller comes back, they want that from him. And that's where it suddenly becomes, well, now when you're these guys and, you know, opposition has to hold these guys accountable and try and keep them in check, it frees up space for Garland to continue to be a driver and Sherwood to continue to do the things that he does. Maybe Joshua gets his game back on track.

Can I just say one thing about Talkett's PD rant? Because I listened to a lot of the station yesterday and I was following along on social media more than I usually do. So many people got that rant wrong. So many people saw that as an actual shot at the media for asking critical questions of Petey. I really think you need to go back and listen to what happened.

Farhan put a question about Petey to Talkett on a platter for him for Talkett to say something nice about Pettersson. Okay. It was one of those questions where, you know, Farhan's a TV guy, so oftentimes he's looking for that sound bite for his story on the Canucks where Talkett would say something like, it's great that Petey has stepped up to the plate while JT Miller has been absent.

Right? That would be a great TV story just because, you know, Pedersen has been producing points. He was a key part of them getting a point off the St. Louis Blues. He made a nice play to DeBruyck's and he also had that own goal, the Colton Pareko goal

where Talkett praised him. But I don't think Talkett is ready to just like unload with praise right now. Even though it would be the easiest thing to do. And just because I don't think he's like, you know, he's just like someone like ask you to compliment them. You're like, oh. I mean, I do it all the time. It's just the easiest thing to do.

Right. But I think he was just like, you're great at radio. Well, thank you. See, it works. Even when you're lying. So he went with, yeah, he's producing. But he's producing is very different than he's playing well.

Hughes is producing, but also driving everything. But also playing well. That's the eye test, though. So I think if you watch it over again, I think you'll see that it was a guy that didn't want to be put in a box by the media. And like, because quite oftentimes it's a dance, right? Like, the media will ask questions, expecting an answer.

And it's not to grill the media, especially when the TV guys are doing it. They just want the coach to say something. So it's something for their story, right? And, you know, if it's true, great. But I think Taka was just really hesitant because he's just like, he sees what a lot of us sees. He's like, yeah, he's just like he sees what a lot of us sees he's like yeah he's getting points but you know there's a reason that i have to praise him when he puts the puck towards the net right he's not playing that attacking style that we need out of him yeah does that

make sense it does um like i don't i didn't see that as a i didn't see that as a criticism of the media for asking critical questions and i think what Drance was saying yesterday was that was actually like a really easy postgame interview from a media perspective. Like there were no hardball questions. There was nothing of that sort. And for the most part, Drance was talking about the team reporter, who's frankly whose job is to be more positive than negative like the team reporter often starts off the the scrum and the Canucks could lose five to two but if you know Quinn Hughes scored a nice goal you'd be like you know the first question might be like you know the team lost tonight uh not not the result you wanted, but how about that goal by Quinn Hughes?

Bounce back in the third. That's what a lot of the media veils have been like. Yeah, I think, well, I mean, there's a lot to this, right? And I think part of the thing is that I don't know if the way Tocca addressed that had entirely to do with Pedersen, more to do with there's probably a fair bit of frustration across the board. And I think that's an important thing here, is that if you were to get the guy in a you know one-on-one off the record conversation

I got a feeling he'd probably have a few things to talk about one would be that his blue line is nowhere near NHL playoff caliber quality I think another one would be is that injuries have really derailed uh the early part of the season I think another one would be that he's without JT Miller for 10 plus games or whatever it's been right now. And I think another one would be is that they're not playing the style and they're not playing it to the way that he wants them to play. And I think another one would be, and someone just texted in, they're not that physical and not that violent and not that mean and not that gritty a group. I've counted on three different occasions this year where big hits have been laid on pretty important players to the team.

Seen it happen to Hughes. I've seen it happen to Pedersen. You see it happen to Garland. And there's been no response in a league where clean hit or no, the first thing that happens when a big hit gets dropped is the gloves get dropped. It's just sort of par for the course in the nhl now there's probably a entirely separate conversation we can have about you know the league's getting

soft because i have seen this complaint from a number of different you know people following a number of different teams that hitting's way down responses are way down the nastiness is way down but this team i would not classify it as one that plays with an edge, like with a physical edge. And for the head coach, given how he came up and played in the NHL, I'm sure it drives him nuts at times that they're not that team.

I think all of it probably has got him frustrated. This is not the trajectory that a lot of people saw this team was going to go on from the first season with Rick talkingett in charge to the second. They're kind of almost trying to rediscover who they are and what they are.

And the takeaway for me yesterday wasn't about being deferential on the power play. It was that as we head into a game against the defending Stanley Cup champion Florida Panthers in December, Rick Talkett is still saying that they're not playing to their identity, that they haven't quite found it yet. And that's got to be concerning for a coach because last year was building identity year. This year was supposed to be, you know, how do we change that a little bit? How do we make it look a little bit different? How do we get a little bit more variety in our attack?

Not how do we figure out the things that made us successful last year? You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford & Brough. We just have to call Thomas Drance Erotica. Thomas Drance Erotica. Course. Thomas Drance erotica. Expect goals.

Thomas Grant's erotica. Top model. Thomas Grant's erotica. Red Russian. Thomas Grant's erotica. PDO Thomas Duranica

803 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. Halford Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough in the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for,

sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 3 of the program. Thomas Drance from The Athletic and Canucks Talk here on Sportsnet 650 is going to join us in a moment to kick off Hour 3. Hour 3 is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell & Pound.

Visit them on the internet at campbell-pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Sore feet, what are you waiting for? Kintec, before we get to Thomas Drance, I need to do a couple things.

One, I need to ask, nay, beg our listeners. Dear listeners, send in your what we learns. What did you learn over the last 24 hours in sports? Let us know. Dunbar Lumber text line is 650-650. Hashtag it WWL and tell us what you learned over the last 24 hours in sports. Lots happened. We haven't talked about the NBA Cup yet.

If you want to weigh in on that, and if you don't, just text us about hockey and the Canucks also in 11 minutes time we're going to be doing the call-in giveaway contest for tickets to see creed and big wreck next summer in august 2025 we're giving away a pair of tickets every day this week caller number five at 815 this morning the phone number 604-280-0650 that number again 604-280-0650 caller number five we'll get a pair of tickets to see creed and big wreck next august at rogers arena okay uh to the phone lines we go thomas trans joins us now on the halford and breath show on sports Sportsnet 650. What up, Drancer? Gentlemen, good morning.

Good morning to you. What's going on? What's good? Tell me something. Looking forward to tonight. Florida Panthers in town. The Canucks trying to avoid losing three in a row. So, you know, high stakes. I mean, this is a good team that the Canucks will be facing.

I think we all know,'t haven't been at their best they're shorthanded desperately so I think we all understand the context for that hey look let me ask you I think the big question like I think the big question around this team applies to a theory that I'm calling the sleeping giant theory right and? And it's like, do you buy, do you buy, or are you selling on the concept of the Canucks as sort of the sleeping giant in the West, right? We, we've, we've seen this team. They've, they've held their head above water, right? You've got 12 points in 10 games in the absence of JT Miller.

Maybe that absence continues tonight. Maybe it doesn't, I suppose we'll find out in an hour and a half or so. And, you know, is the fact that this team has been able to reel off a variety of, like, wins or collect points and just sort of keep pace in the West without Hronik, without Miller, with Demko only getting back last game, is that an indication in your mind that this could be one of those sleeping giant teams?

They haven't peaked too early. They haven't peaked at all. But this is a team that when we get down to the stretch run, when we get into the playoffs, could be a team that everyone else is looking at in the West and thinking, we really don't want to see them in the first round or the second. I mean, on paper, if they're playing at their full potential,

look at what they got. I mean, they got JT Miller and Elias Pettersson down the middle. They got Brock Besser and Jake DeBrusque on the wings. They got a potential great third line with Conor Garland and Dakota Joshua. They got energy players like Kiefer Sherwood. On paper, the forward group is amazing if everyone plays up to their potential. The defense group has arguably the best defenseman in the NHL

and a pretty good sidekick in Philip Hronik when he's healthy. And in goal, you've got a Vezna finalist from last year in Thatcher Demko now if they accrue enough cap space and they're able to add another defenseman I understand where you're going with this but does all of that come together well let me let me just say first the answer is it's great that we have a media member out there willing to ask hard tough critical questions like that. And in a positive way

too, right? Like just very positive. Here's Thomas Drantz saying the Canucks his latest theory is that they are a sleeping giant that could be awoken and run through the playoffs and win a stanley cup that's essentially what you're saying right thomas drance well i'm i'm looking at it this way right the truth is

is that you know i'm looking at some of like the underlying metrics for the team because we're 27 games in right and at 30 games i I usually like to say, okay, I have some certainty about what a team's true talent level is. And this season has been so odd, right? It has been so tricky, difficult for this team that this year, when I was going through the exercise and really trying to pin down my post-30 games, what do I think this team is? I was like, I don't know. I threw my hands up.

This exercise isn't going to tell me what it usually does. And one of the main indicators that I'm looking at with this team, for example, is how well do they generate looks five on five? And the answer is not much better than they did last year. And that doomed them last year. But then I think to myself, okay, well, I can't really judge this team fairly over the last 10 games. And if I look at where they were at 17 games into the season, they were like 11th in the NHL generating shots on goal five on five.

Whereas, you know, they've been like 30th in the NHL generating shots on goal five on five whereas you know they've been like 30th in the in the 10 games since right they they are 26th overall but they were 11th early in the year before some of these absences sort of started to compound right before they lost enough star level pieces that you're thinking hey you know what this team's infrastructure is probably a little bit fundamentally compromised right now and the fact that they're winning games with that in that environment is actually probably a meaningful positive sign even if it hasn't been frustrating or even if it has been frustrating to watch on occasion uh over the last run of games so you know, that gives me pause where it's like, okay,

if this team is generating shots and looks at a top 10 rate, which they did do, not for long enough for me to say, hey, that's who they are, but for long enough that I'm not going to write it off, given the absences from their lineup, well, then they have the defensive solidity and the star-level players and the goaltending that, you know, get the power play right. Hey, maybe you can score enough to be an actual contender or at least one of those, like, sub-contenders that can go on a deep run.

Right? If they play like they have over the balance of the season, I'm not buying that. But we know what they've been missing over the larger sample so look honestly I'm not I'm not coming to this blindly I'm coming to this as sort of part of my overall process the the process that I build to an evaluating team I just don't think I can evaluate this team the way I usually would I don't actually think I've seen enough because of you know who's been in and out of the lineup the sort of rotating door of absences and injuries that have kind of afflicted

this team through the first two months. Well, my biggest issue with the sleeping giant theory is that even with Hronik available, the blue line still seemed too inferior to be a legit Stanley Cup contender. We ran through what Florida had on the blue line last year when they won it, and it was Ekblad, Forsling, Ekman-Larsen, Montour, and I guess that would have made Mikola the five.

And Mikola rocks, by the way. And he's good. He's really good. He's like Robocop or something. He's like a robot from the 70s. He's incredible. So in light of that, it's hard for me to say, well, we've got a sleeping giant here in Vancouver. And I hate throwing these three names out all the time, but I always do it.

Like Deharnais, Friedman, and Juleson playing significant minutes at any stage of the season is not a good thing. Yeah, well, and I guess that's sort of the rub here too right is i don't know that you get in get too deep into the sleeping giant theory without the assumption that at some point this super aggressive management team finds a way to upgrade the back end with at least one more piece right like i get that yeah i'm with that you know i do think that has to be factored in is we kind of we kind of

know we have the measure of patrick alveen as a general manager you know under jim rutherford as the president of hockey operations and we know that this team's going to be aggressive and swung more in-season deals last season than just about anybody else right so i i think we have to bake that part in like we have to expect that provided this team gives them enough reason to spend even a bit you know uh we we gotta we gotta assume that they're gonna add a righty to win some draws um you know a bottom six centerman who's right-handed who can win some draws and and a defender you know at least at least at that Zdorov tier, like at least giving you another bid to have like a Myers-Sucey level guy.

At least. So I don't know. Look, more than anything, it's just something I think we got to keep in the back of our mind, right? As frustrating as this last segment of games has been, I think objectively, honestly, I don't think I can dismiss the sleeping giant theory out of hand. Like I said, I think it's something we just have to keep in the back of our heads and,

and kind of just wait and watch to see what this team looks like when they actually have a full, full roster, a full gamut of weapons in the lineup and, and sort of see what it looks like then we just, we, we just haven't seen it. Like, we literally haven't seen it for a game. Yeah. But even if you just say, okay, well, we think Demko, you know,

is going to get to a point where he's 5% better than Lankanen, right? Like, even if we just do that, we still only have like 16, 17 games where the team had enough core pieces in the lineup for us to really think we have a handle on who they are. Your answer, Talkett's system seems to be an increasing talking point, both in the Dunbar-Lumber text line and on social media. You're going to put me in the positive,

like the positive, like, you know, the sidecar and a motorcycle. You're going to put me in that again, huh? Yeah, I am. I'm going to put you in that. Um, what do you think about the criticism of talk? It's system. I mean, I think truly, I think the, um, fact is, is that I don't understand it well enough, right. Uh, to, to be honest with you. And I think a lot of the people criticizing it don't either. Right.

Like I hear a lot of things like the dump and chase or what this team generates in the ozone and, you know, sort of realistically, realistically you know, the like hybrid man's offensive system that he runs, the way that this team breaks out, the way that this team is coached, I think is pretty high end, frankly. And I don't really buy the talk. Look at the choices this team made this offseason.

Look at the emphasis that they had at training camp and early in the season. And honestly, too, some of the process that they made, or progress that they made, excuse me, that they made in terms of what they generated offensively, especially off the rush in the early part of the season now i think they have had to crank the dial back i think this team is playing conservative hockey they are playing very low event hockey right now i yeah and it is not aesthetically pleasing nope i do not enjoy watching it at the moment but the there's also i think some credit that we got to give to this team that made it through last season right and it was a dream season and everything went their way and they ran hotter than any team ever has from a

conversion efficiency standpoint and also at stellar into the summer they're examining where they need to improve and they're like we need to be faster which i think is dead right by the way right like you've seen what this team looks like against carolina new jersey and edmonton and occasionally columbus right and then they need they did need to get faster and they did get faster and it's still the seams show sometimes right so still a work in progress but that i thought that was a good conclusion and we need to be able to generate more goals we need to be able to generate more off the rush we can't get bogged down offensively the way we did in the playoffs last year i mean you you gotta you gotta give this group and and talk it was a big part of it credit for sort of recognizing their limitations in a

really clear eyed way coming off of the dream season. A lot of teams would just double down on what they'd done. Right. And instead like what worked right. The play, the hits. And, and I think under talk it,

this team really takes hard, clear eyed looks at itself and says, what, where do we need to be better? I think went out and i mean put some put some bets on the table that we haven't really had a chance to see play out in full uh so i give him credit for that i don't think the system is too limiting overall i do think you can win playing this way i do think you can score more and generate more playing this way. You know, I like if there's sort of a criticism that I'd have,

I think it's that the power play remains given the personnel that Vancouver has, which, which I think should make it like the Canucks are going to be just off of having Quinn Hughes, Elias Pettersson, Brock Besser, you know, DeBrus Garland and JT Miller. They're going to be a top 12 power play as a baseline. And this team hasn't been able to get into the top five. Right. And to me, that's sort of like the thing that I'd be most critical of, honestly, is, you know, this team hasn't brought in an established power play coach under Tuckett. He's been deeply involved himself.

I think that's a lot of responsibility for a full-time NHL head coach in a Canadian market to take on. And to me, the Canucks power play has been fine, but it's mostly been fortunate. It's mostly relied on the shooting talent of its team. It doesn't generate in in sort of like creative ways or dominate like to me that's the criticism that i think is is fairest to have uh over talk it's you know 18 months or two years in charge here i think just about everything else especially the defensive system i mean this is the author of one of the

most impressive year-over-year defensive turnarounds we've ever seen. Like, do people even remember what it looked like when this team played hockey before Talk It took over and what it looks like now and how, you know, honestly incredible they are at sort of denying chances and generating puck possession and sort of the thoughtful way they play, the discipline with which this group plays, honestly, the flat-out balls that this team has, too. I remember at a point last season,

I remember a point last season where I was like, wait, the Canucks are good defensively. And it kind of took me a while to realize that. But I did want to start. And then you got to like January, February, and it's like, oh, no, they're great defensively. Yeah. With like very few changes.

I mean, that was honestly. So, no, I have zero criticism for Tuckett's overall system, which frankly I don't even understand enough to unpack like choices that he could do differently. I think the only really fair spot to criticize the coaching is could the power play be better? Is the power play still punching below sort of its weight class? And in that area, I'd say that's probably fair. What about when the Canucks have possession in the attacking zone? And I guess this goes for

the power play as well, but I'm more talking about five on five like the St. Louis game um there were times when the top line had possession in the offensive zone but so often it ends up with all right we'll put it back to the point, and we'll try and get a point shot. Is the point shot too much of a safety valve for this team? Because, I don't know, personally, I'd like to see them find ways to just work the puck down low and get the forwards to the front of the net. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that this team does do, though, is they utilize offensive zone time to insulate their defense right i think that's a big part of what this team has done under

talk it over the last year and a half or two years i think there's a lot of time where if we have the puck and we're grinding out possessions and, we even begin changes in the offensive zone and just apply pressure. And, you know, we're not risking passes that are, you know, 30% passes even or 20% passes to create scoring chances because that creates opportunities for the other team to attack us off the rush. And we're not taking shots, you know, that we think are 15% shots, even from the high slot or relatively dangerous areas. Certainly not from bad angles, because that creates the chance of a miss and then a rush opportunity the other way. And we're just going to grind down the opposition.

We're going to dominate the puck. And then we'll take point shots because those are the easiest ones to recover from and the hardest ones for our opponents to jailbreak against us with and so i think when i talk about how this team plays a low event hockey how they've turned the dial to be somewhat more conservative in the absence of their players like i think we've seen more of that too right we've seen less off the rush but we've also seen this team go back to sort of like the Sadin style of defense, where you defend by having the puck 150 feet from your net. So I think it amps up when this team is trying to play low event hockey. And I think that's where, you know, the like the shin is connected to the knee bone of it all.

Right. The sort of way that this team defends with the puck. the shin is connected to the knee bone of it all, right? The sort of way that this team defends with the puck, under-tack it, needs to sort of exist in our minds. So while you're watching it and it's fair to be like, oh man, why aren't they, why are they just working the puck up high and taking all these point shots? And, you know, I'd love to see more dynamic offensive

attacking hockey. And by the way, me'd love to see more dynamic offensive attacking hockey. And by the way, me too. I think part of the reason that they're doing it that way is because what we call good defense, like what we call this team's exceptional defensive profile is also partly the product of what they do with the puck. Right. So I think that's. They're wasting time. It's like, it's like a soccer team that takes the ball

to the corner flag that's right ball ball but man that's the three yeah but it's not just conca calf it's not just conca calf time wasting like with a with a light lead right there there are actual benefits to being on the front foot like that right yeah you're you know you're four check and wearing down opponents. You wear them down. So, you know, I think it's, but I think it's a choice, and I think it's a choice designed to protect their defense and, in fact, amplify what this team's able to do

from a goal prevention standpoint. Hey, who starts in net tonight? Ooh, that's a good one. I mean, honestly, now that you've had Demko back, right, now that he was able to practice the next day, a good sign for his recovery. I mean, do you want to give him two games in 72 hours for the purpose of, like, running, like, a fit test, right?

Like, running, like, a fitness check almost? Like right? Like running like a fitness check, almost like a, like a, how do you feel like let's gather information, right? Cause, cause at this point, you know, I think you'd like both options. I thought Demko was really good, um, in his return to action. Um, and, and so I think more than anything, what you probably want to be making that decision on is, is less the traditional, like who gives us the best chance at two points and more of the sort of let's gather data and have a really good understanding of sort of where you are,

where you're at physically, how we manage this best, right. What, what makes the most sense for you. And, and, you know, alternatively, it might be like, okay, well, I was able to play. I felt good through going through my recovery process the next night i was able to practice the next day you know uh today today i'll be the backup which by the way isn't doesn't it's not a day off for a goaltender by any means right like that means you're the guy on the ice late at morning skate right taking shots for for the scratches you're the guy who does a little bit more in the warm-up uh skate later on in the day right so there's physical demands that come with that and

maybe that's what he needs to gather that information or or what you want for him to gather that information so you know i think more than anything as the canucks sort of manage their platoon here they just need to make decisions you know based more, I think, like a long view of sort of what Demko needs, where his recovery is at, how he's pacing physically as opposed to making those decisions for the standard old reasons of winning hockey games, at least for a little bit, right? I think the sleeping giant theory demands, too,

that the Canucks take a longer view with their goaltending. Drancer, this was great, bud. Thanks for taking the time to do it. We appreciate it. Enjoy the game tonight. We'll talk again next week.ancer, this was great, bud. Thanks for taking the time to do it. We appreciate it. Enjoy the game tonight. We'll talk again next week. Thanks, boys. Cheers.

Bye. Thomas Drance on Sportsnet 650, brought to you by Freeway Mazda, Canada's number one consumer-rated Mazda dealer. You're listening to the best of Halford & Brough.