Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 1/2/25

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, Brough gives his thoughts on Patrik Allvin's comments on the state of the Canucks, they react to former Canuck Luke Richardson via the Missin' Curfew Podcast regarding the Miller & Pettersson rift, they talk the Miller & Petey dynamic as well as Canucks trade rumours with Daily Faceoff's Frank Seravalli, plus they preview tonight's 'Nucks matchup at the Seattle Kraken with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Third and eight. Left it. That ball's intercepted! It is intercepted! Makuba seals it! Hook them horns!

They're headed home to Texas to play in the Cotton Bowl! Gee, I love JT. Love him. He's a f***ing animal. But I even told him, I said, hey, you're going to get too hot on this kid. Oh, January 1st. Better get going on those taxes, Nitty. But I even told him, I said, hey, you're going to get too hard on this kid. Oh, January 1st. Better get going on those taxes, Nitty.

Good morning, Vancouver. 6-0-1 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. Happy New Year, everybody. It is Alfred. It is Brough. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver.

Jason, good morning. Good morning. And happy New Year to you. Yeah, I'm so glad to be back. Andy, Adog, good morning and happy new year to you. Good morning and happy new year to you as well. And finally, Laddie is not with us for the next few days, so it is regular Zach,

formerly intern Zach, now regular Zach, manning the boards today. Zach, good morning and happy new year to you. Good morning and happy new year. Halford and Brougham in the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts.

We are in Hour 1 of the program. Hour 1 is brought to you by Northstar Metal Recycling, Vancouver's premier metal recycler. Well, they pay the highest prices on scrap metal. Northstar Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider,

powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Arfit, what are you waiting for? Kintec, we got a big show ahead. We got a big guest list ahead. The first show of Halbro in 2025. Guest list begins today at 6.30. David Amber, Sportsnet, NHLL Hockey Night in Canada host, is going to join us.

12 games, 12 games in the National Hockey League this evening, including a bunch on Sportsnet. You got the Bruins and the Rangers, the Leafs and the Isles, the Flames and the Hockey Club of Utah, Flyers and Vegas Golden Knights, and of course, your Vancouver Canucks at Lemon Pledge Arena against the Seattle Kraken. That one's at 7 o'clock.

David Amber is going to join us at 6.30. 7 o'clock this morning, Frank Zeravalli is going to join the program. We'll ask Frank what he's hearing about a possible Canucks trade now that the holiday freeze is over. It thawed out on Saturday. And now we're just two months away. A little over two months away from that March 7th trade deadline. Talk to Frank about that at 7. 7.30, Barclay Parnetta.

He is the general manager of the Vancouver Giants. Giants are back in action tomorrow. That's a 7 o'clock start against Wenatchee, the hated Wenatchee at the Langley Events Center. Speaking of junior hockey, Canada is going to take on Czechia in the quarterfinals of the World Juniors today at 4.30 our time. 8 o'clock this morning, Thomas Drance. I co-hosted the last two shows of 2024 with Thomas Drance.

How's that, ending your year with Drance? It was fine. They were only two-hour shows. Drance is going to join us at 8 o'clock. He's on Canucks Talk at noon today on Sportsnet 650. Quick reminder, Canucks Central goes from 4 to 6. Pre-game show from 6 to 7. 7 o'clock, Batch and Randeeb have you for the Canucks and Kraken from Seattle.

Then the post-game show goes till 11 o'clock. So lots of Canucks talk here on Sportsnet 650 today. That is what's happening on the program today. Zach, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was...

We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? What happened, as always, is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Okay, a little bit of a different wrinkle for the show today because technically the Canucks played two nights ago, so we're not doing our usual morning after recap,

but we do need to go back and talk about what happened on tuesday night at the saddle dome in calgary nazem kadri scored midway through the third period flames win 3-1 against the canucks besser scored for the canucks kevin lankanen made 26 saves so with that win and the fact that calgary has won three of their last four and just one regulation loss in their last seven combined with the fact that the Canucks have lost five of six, Jason, the Canucks went into 2025 one point behind Calgary for that second and final wildcard spot in the Western Conference. So when I took my vacation, what was it, two weeks ago?

I was hoping when I came back, things would have stabilized a little bit with the Canucks. Maybe they'd found some traction. When I came back, things would have stabilized a little bit with the Canucks. Maybe they'd found some traction. We wouldn't be talking about the drama of this team off the ice the whole time. It appears that has not happened, and I open up social media today, and the first name that's trending is Pedersen. It hasn't gotten a lot better.

To put it mildly, it hasn't gotten a lot better. Welcome back, bud. It hasn't gotten a lot better. To put it mildly, it hasn't gotten a lot better. Welcome back, bud. Yeah, it hasn't gotten a lot better for the Vancouver Canucks over the two-plus weeks that you were away. Yeah, you know, I was thinking back to when the Canucks lost Hronik, and my thought then was that this was going to be really tough for the Canucks just to tread water. They'd built up a bit of a playoff cushion, so that was good. But I remember thinking, man, they're just going to have to scratch and claw

and get points here and there. Well, now the Canucks are also without Quinn Hughes and Elias Pettersson, and they appear to be not only not treading water but drowning. By all accounts, against the Flames, they brought spirit and energy to Calgary on Tuesday, but they're sorely lacking top talent right now, and it's showing the blue line as currently deployed has to be the worst in the league, or at least close to the worst.

Not even going to debate. Bottom three, Myers and Soucy were the top-minute guys against the Flames. Then Juleson and Forbort, followed by Brandstrom and Darnay. And look, you can sit here and argue if you want. Oh, Brandstrom should be playing more. Instead of 17 minutes, how about 20 minutes? And, you know, take down whoever's

numbers, Susie's numbers, if you want. I don't know. If you want to make that argument, fine. It's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic right now, though. Tonight in Seattle, I guess they'll try and get some revenge for Saturday's debacle against the Kraken at Rogers Arena when they blew a 4-1 lead with, what, five seconds left? I don't know.

Minutes. But the Kraken are coming off a big win over Utah on Monday. Not that I'm thinking that the Kraken are rolling or anything, but all of a sudden that playoff cushion that the Canucks had built earlier in the season has completely disappeared. Now I've seen a few models that still expect the Canucks to make the playoffs, but that's assuming they get healthy soon. And it also takes into account the lack of quality teams in the fight for the final playoff spot. Calgary, St. Louis, Utah, Seattle, the Canucks should be able to beat out those teams. But this season has been so full of setbacks

and let's face it, apparent dysfunction that it's hard to have a lot of faith in the group. Tell me, when you were working with Drance and that interview with IMAC, uh, IMAC and Alvin came out and Alvin pretty much ripped everyone in the organization except for, well, himself. Um, what was the reaction to that, especially his thoughts on some of the Canucks top players? Yeah. So it was interesting, right? Cause it was the, it was new year's Eve when IMAC dropped his article with Canucks top players. Yeah. So it was interesting, right? Cause it was the, it was new year's Eve when IMAG dropped his article with Canucks general manager,

Patrick Alvin, as you said, doing a Q and a to sort of recap everything that happened over the calendar year. One of those tidy year in review type things with Patrick Alvin. So we're here on Tuesday. It's the last show of 2024. And I actually read a bunch of the quotes from Patrick Alvin allowed just so

everyone could understand exactly one, what he was saying, not trying to parse words or paraphrase, but two, to understand how many different people and how many different facets of the team he was going after with pretty sharp criticisms. So the initial reaction, I think that I got from the in basket and social media and everything else

was good. Give them hell. Patrick Alvin, tell these guys what's what call out Pedersen and Miller and Besser challenge Rick talk it to find the consistency that the team lacks. Do it all. Call them all out. Then as the day went on and I read more things and started to pay a little bit

more attention, there was not quite an equally loud majority, but there was a loud part of the fan base that was like what about you shouldn't you be taking some responsibility what about patrick alvin's role in all of this uh david quadrelli from canucks army had a very good piece you can read it now and kind of reaction to IMAX interview with Patrick Alvin, where he said, what about the front office's role in all of this? What about the current state of this blue line that you can't really point to anyone else other than Patrick Alvin and Jim Rutherford for constructing it?

I don't know. For me, I just blame everyone. Honestly, I blame, I blame. There's so much finger pointing going on right now. Obviously some at Pedersen, others at JT,

the coaching staff is getting blamed for not getting the most out of the players and so too is the management group. Again, as everyone mentioned, for their failure to assemble a competent blue line. Why do you have to just pick one? This is one of those situations where everyone shares some blame.

You want to tell me that Petey should have worked harder in the offseason and prepared himself better? Okay, I agree. You want to tell me that JT should stop yelling at his teammates and focus more on his own game? I'm not going to push back too hard on that one either. Is the coaching staff preparing the team to play based on some of their starts this season, based on their home record. I can't say the coaching staff is knocking it out of the park. And did the management group do a good enough job putting the defense together? Nope.

They did not. Even if you did have Hughes and Hronik, that blue line was a problem when Hughes and Hronik were both there. So the question for me is whether this team is going to pull it together. I have a lot of time for the second half of that discussion where people are like, Hey, wait a minute,

Patrick Alvin just can't be lobbing grenades at this team and the players and the coaching staff. I don't expect him to necessarily like take ownership in the interview, especially if he wasn't asked the question, like what could you have done better? I didn't see that question in the transcript, but I've definitely got some time for kind of what you're suggesting. It's like,

if you're going to be pointing fingers at people in the organization point everywhere and the current state of the blue line. And I know they're without their number one and number two defenseman. And a lot of NHL teams couldn't survive that, but it is borderline criminal. What they're putting out on a nightly basis for a team that isn't just trying to compete among the 32 teams in the National Hockey League. This is a team that was supposed to take a step from last year

where they were one win away from going to the Western Conference Final. And you look at them right now, and it feels like on a nightly basis, they have such a thin margin for error to win games because they're so depleted and they seem to be making a lot of errors in those margins susie myers juleson the guys that you're expecting to try and like you know settle things down yeah and keep it together are making big loud mistakes on a nightly basis well the funny thing is that seattle game they played really well. For 55 minutes. For 55 minutes.

And then, you know, I'm sitting there and going like, I don't even seem to be missing these guys. I actually thought they looked pretty good. They did. They were dominating that team. And then they just absolutely blew it. And, you know, if they had a competent blue line, they wouldn't have blown it.

Some of the plays they were making, and yeah, Demko didn't look great, and I'm sure some of the forwards made mistakes, coverage mistakes, you know, Dakota Joshua on the, you know, got puck watching on the tying goal, I think it was. Like, that tying goal was, like, ridiculous, right?

We had him surrounded, right? I mean, it was just, and then the, was it Juleson threw it up the middle to susie who tried to like flip a rolling puck little flipper what are you doing like what are you doing just just hammer it away um i mean it's easy to say in hindsight but that was just a complete collapse so but like i think considering how shorthanded they were against the Flames too, they brought some energy and they brought some spirit and they played a pretty direct game. It's just a talent thing right now, which is crazy against the Flames

because it's not like they're loaded with talent either. But I know now there's more. The reason Pedersen's name is trending this morning, I know why it's trending, is because there was a clip on the Missing Curfew podcast, which is hosted by, in part, Shane O'Brien. Two former Canucks, Shane O'Brien, Scotty Epshaw. Never forget Scotty Epshaw's trip to China.

He never played a game for the Canucks, though, did he? Not in the regular season. He parlayed a free trip to China into a PTO with the Blues and then signed with the Blues. Okay. Yeah. But anyway, so it's co-hosted by two former Canucks, featuring another former Canuck with Brad Richardson.

Okay, so they asked Brad Richardson about the relationship between Elias Pettersson and JT Miller, and Brad Richardson essentially confirmed from a guy in the room not just the media these jackals who are always making stuff up well this is Brad Richardson a guy who was in the room about JT Miller and Elias Pettersson. Let me tell you this, and I'll be super honest with you, and I've had this, and I was in that dressing room with those guys. I love JT. Love him.

He's like an animal. But I even told him, I said, hey, you're too hard on this kid. Yeah? You're too hard on him. And I said, I know you're saying exactly what I think, but he's a kid that doesn't take, when you're on him, on him, on him,

he's going to shut it down. I told him like, hey, you're going to lose this guy if you keep doing it. That's what I said to him. And hey, JT, he's the man,

but there is a lot of tension and something's going to give, I guarantee you. And I'm not saying you have to love every guy on your team. It helps, but something's going to give there. So we. And I'm not saying you have to love every guy on your team. It helps. But something's going to give there. So we'll see. There comes some pressure, right? No, 100%.

Richie, you know, I love JT Miller. And if there is a problem between the two of them, if I'm on the GM, I'm trading Pedersen. I don't care what anyone says in Vancouver. I love JT Miller. So we're not going to get into what Shane O'Brien thinks there. Noted general manager Shane O'Brien. Like again, you know, half the time my logical brain is sitting there going like,

these guys just need to figure it out. And the Canucks will have Pedersen and JT Miller down the middle for, you know, the future. And then the other part of me is just like, I'm so sick of this. Trade them both. Right? You know, like I don And then the other part of me is just like, I'm so sick of this, trade them both. Right? You know, like I don't even want to pick one. But this is a player in the room saying there was an issue.

And frankly, neither JT nor Petey comes off well in this. JT looks bad because he's being too hard on a player that clearly doesn't respond well to that sort of motivation. And Petey looks bad because Richardson is basically saying, look, JT, I get it. too hard on a player that clearly doesn't respond well to that sort of motivation. And Petey looks bad because Richardson is basically saying, look, JT, I get it. I see the same things that you see. I know why you're doing this. I know why you're being hard on him. So what are those things he sees? Well, they're obviously not great things. I am having more and more trouble picturing both these guys back next season it's like Brad Richardson says something has to give doesn't it I feel like I've been saying this all

like all season like something's got to give here what's what's gonna happen here and you know all that's given is that there's more injuries now. I don't know. Maybe it doesn't have to give in the next month or two, but, man, this doesn't seem tenable. Not long term, which kind of makes you wonder, as we go back to when you're talking about finger pointing around the organization and who's to blame for the current state of affairs, I do wonder if Patrick Levvin and Jim Rutherford either misdiagnosed or

didn't take seriously enough the rift between Miller and Pedersen. And if or maybe the most scary thing is that they assumed that upon signing him to this gargantuan 90 plus million dollar extension that the situation was resolved or was clear or was good when it wasn't that they were like well we're gonna sign them anyway and they're gonna figure it out yeah because figuring it out and that's been the whole thing with every i see this on social media all the time lock them in a room together have them figure it out put them on a line together play them together make them figure it out. Put them on a line together. Play them together. Make them figure it out. Right? All these ideas where you're like,

just throw the two of them together and make them figure it out. I think that's been tried. They've been teammates for multiple seasons. At a certain point, that's insanity just telling them

to figure it out because they're probably not going to. And can you live with one another? Well, it's hard to blame the, you know, the disappointments of the season solely on that dynamic,

but it hasn't helped. I remember when one of the insiders said, this is months ago, he said, you know, you don't have to like each other, but you have to respect each other. And, you know, the takeaway from that particular point was like, these guys respect each other, right? Back of my mind, I'm like, what if they don't respect each other?

Yeah, it's a possibility. What if they honestly do not respect each other? Honestly, yeah, you don't have to like each other. But that seems to be this throwaway phrase that everyone uses. You don't have to like everyone you go to work with but as long as you respect them then that's fine but what if there is a genuine disrespect between these two right like and i could see it jt doesn't respect pd because he thinks he's soft or he's weak and uh pd doesn't respect jt because he thinks he's a jerk. So the rift at this stage of the game is,

this is where it becomes an issue. Because right now, you need everyone pulling the rope in the same direction. Your best player is out of the lineup. For weeks. Not weeks, singular. Weeks. Quinn Hughes is week to week, and Tuckett said he's going to be out for weeks. Well, I think he's going to be back sooner.

I think he's just going to feel the pressure by himself to come back. At any rate, go on. The second best defenseman on the team is also out. So right now, you need everyone on the same page pulling the rope. You don't need any additional adversity right now. This is the time where you've got enough adversity that you need your leaders and your best players to step up and be like okay, the only way we're going to get through this

is to do it together. All those terrible cliches. I've been watching the New England Patriots documentary on Apple TV and they've got them all. Do your job. It's all about us in this room. It's true though. You can say it's lame and cliche but there's something to be said for, like it's a team

game. You have to be on the, like, it's a team game. You have to be on the same page. I'm at the Spygate part of the proceedings right now. Yeah, when you're cheating, you have to be all on the same page. They all, all cowboyed up for Belichick. They were like, you know what? It's us against everybody, but we're not going to let anything in this room rip us apart when we're in the face of adversity. Adversity there was you're getting called cheaters

and your coach might be suspended. Everyone, everyone is focusing in on your team. How are you going to respond? And the guys in the room said, we're going to be as strong united as we possibly can. It wasn't like Teddy Bruschi and Tom Brady were like, now's the time to air our dirty laundry because we don't like each other.

Like, that didn't happen. Well, they're not, I mean, to be fair, Miller and Pettersson aren't airing their dirty laundry out right now. But it's being aired. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know, I know. But, I mean, this thing from Brad Richardson is, you know, when was Brad Richardson on the team?

It was years ago. 2021, 2022. He's basically confirming that there was an issue then. Now, if Miller and Pedersen were able to, if they were to come speak to the media, they might be able to come out and say, I don't even know if they were lying. They'd be like, yeah, that was years ago.

Right? Like when Brad was on the team, that was years ago. Sure. But like Hughes has addressed it this season. Well, Miller and Pedersen have said there's no issue. I know. And Talkett's addressed it. And nobody believes it, though.

And Talkett. Well, because in their mind, there might not be. There might be like, I just don't know. Yeah, we're fine. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I got my own issues going on here, and I have nothing to do with the other guy. It's like when your parents are like, we're fine.

You're like, eh, I'm not 100% sure. But you guys are fine. Well, they might. You're fighting, but. Right. I keep coming back to a couple of things here. Is there any way that Canucks can win a trade involving JT or PD?

Now, the throwaway line that I hear all the time is like, you can't win a trade. Okay. Probably not. But at the very least, I suppose it's one way to address the defense. Bring in either a defenseman or a trade, or at the very least, I suppose it's one way to address the defense. Bring in either a defenseman or a trade, or at the very least, you're going to open up some cap space,

but then you're going to have a massive hole at center, probably. This is the big one for me, though, the one that I keep coming back to and the one thing I don't see getting discussed much. Let's say you get to the point where one of them has to be traded. If one of them is traded, how is life going to be for the guy that is left on the team? Because if you want to talk about pressure, if the Canucks, let's start with, they trade Pettersson. So they say, JT's our guy. He's our warrior leader, emotional leader. We're not going to trade our emotional

leader. We're going to trade Pettersson. Miller's what, 31? You know, maybe right now starting to show signs of decline what if the decline continues and you've traded away Elias Pettersson what if Elias Pettersson goes to another team and absolutely thrives think of the pressure on JT Miller then let's switch it up here Canucks trade Miller instead they keep the young guy which I think frankly would be if you're going to trade one of them I would keep the young guy despite how I think, frankly, would be if you're going to trade one of them. I would keep the young guy. Despite how hard I've been on Pedersen, I would keep the younger guy. At the end of the day, he still loves him. No, I don't. I don't love much about this team right now. If the Canucks do trade Miller, though, it doesn't matter what I think. If the Canucks do

trade Miller, Pedersen really better find his game again. Not only because of that big contract, but because Miller is very much a fan favorite. You've heard his name chanted before? And he has been, over the last year, I'm not talking about the last month or two, or even just this season, over the last year,

he has been the superior player to Elias Pedersen, who you all know you all have heard from me I think has been a shell of himself for almost a year now dating back to yeah we're almost a year now it's dating back to the all-star game in February I think he's been a shell of himself if they trade away Miller and they say okay well if this is your problem we'll trade away JT for you. We're doing everything for you. That guy better show up, man. Well, but it's like...

Using that logic, though, Miller hasn't looked great with Petey out, but you know who looked pretty good when Miller was out. He didn't look amazing. But he looked pretty good. He looked better. He did. Oh, God, I'm back in this already. He did.

I'm back in this already. I know what you're saying, though. He wasn't, like, I'm back in this already. He did. I'm back in this already. I know what you're saying though. He wasn't like, you know, lighting them up peaty, but at least there was a slight inkling of an improvement. We do need to point out that in that same interview with Ian McIntyre, you can check it out.

It's up on Sportsnet.ca, the Patrick Alveen Q&A. Patrick Alveen is asked flat out about the possibility of trading Elias Pettersson. IMAC asked the question and Alvin didn't just answer it. He went into pretty explicit detail about it. So he said, I'll read it verbatim. Smiling, and this is IMAC setting the tone.

This is exactly what he said. Smiling, Alvin says, well, you know Jim's history. And that, of course, is a reference to Jim Rutherford and all the trades that he's made over his time as an executive. Alvin then continues, we want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up,

Philip Peronic and Jake DeBrusque, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a number one center, and I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. And here's where it gets interesting.

But he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well is a trade possible i guess i would say anything is possible then he yelled it out like kevin garnett anything is possible pulling his hat down over his eyes he needs to face the music that sounds like something it sounds like something the media would say you gotta face the music

yep that's look it's it's right there in front of everyone. We actually wrote it for them, the media. There's still people texting and blaming the media for all this. I can't even believe it. Well, it happens. I'm back, baby. I'm back. I've been two weeks on vacation.

Nothing has changed. In fact, things seem to have gotten worse. We're so back. It's so over. We're so back. It's so over. That's the meme. That meme is my life right now with this team.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Frank, tell us, tell us you've got some type of news or update with regards to the Vancouver Canucks and what they might do via trade to fix this.

It's the same update that we've had since the first two weeks of the season. The Canucks' needs, wants, wishes haven't changed. The defense market is not teeming with perfect fits. And they're not in a holding pattern, but they're waiting for the right piece to pop up at the right price. And it's been a challenge from that standpoint, and it's been a challenge on a number of standpoints,

but the least of which, or not the least of which, has been health. I mean, you take away the top two pieces of your defense core for a group that already struggled to move the puck, and it becomes really extra noticeable. Do you get the sense that anything has been accelerated or exacerbated by the Miller-Pettersson dynamic? Because I can understand not wanting to make a move in haste, because that's oftentimes when you lose the trades. But there's also the counter to that argument.

This is like, how much longer can you let this go on? And the same refrain from everyone that we either play bits of their podcast or read their stuff online is something's got to give. Do you get the sense that something does have to give here? Me? I don't know. First off, there's no easy, clean solution. It's a mess if you feel like you have to go down that path. And two, to my knowledge, and look, trust me, I've done my homework the last number of weeks since this became a big talking point. The thing happened this year. Has there been an incident?

Was there something that was out of line? I've asked all the questions that you could possibly ask. And to this point, no one has been willing to say, yes, something changed. This is what happened. This is how it got to the next level. This is how it got. This is why something needs to change. Haven't heard anything like that.

And these two guys have played together since 2019, 20. They both signed massive eight year extensions, knowing that the other guy was going to be there. So to me, I don't know how it suddenly became became hey these guys have an issue which is not news to anyone who's been around that team and then to take it a step further and it became one of these guys has to go i don't know how we got from a to z i really don't well it's probably the way they are playing you know like people are going to revisit the things and then also patrick alvin comes out and really rips the team from top to bottom but

mostly the top and i'm sure i'm sure you read i'm sure you read the interview that he did with ian mcintyre for sportsnet where he he really tore into Elias Pettersson specifically and said you know basically said Petey thought it was going to be easy and he didn't prepare himself for the season and he said that uh you know like he one of the things that really stood out for me is like he needs to learn how to step up and face the music what did you think about those comments from Patrick Galvin again not not surprising um go back to the playoffs I don't think there was any warm and fuzzy feeling from the Canucks about the way that Pedersen played and then the way that he handled his situation with the knee injury I think a lot of people in and around the organization felt like that was an

excuse at the time. And now moving forward, I think they were hoping that the start of this season would bring a new, refreshed, energized, different Pedersen that would play back up to the level of the hundred plus point center that a lot of people thought you know should be playing at a level commensurate to that pay so it wasn't just the preparation the other part that stood out to me in his commentary was basically the way that Patrick Alvin and the Canucks feel

Pettersson's handling the pressure, which is not well. And look, that accountability, the way in which he carries himself, all of that is also then directly related, I think, to Miller and some of the internal battle that's gone on, because that's the opposite of what JT Miller is. few other players in the NHL and then is willing to have the conversation, the tough conversations. And it just doesn't seem like that's the way that Pedersen's wired. And so different people, different backgrounds, extrovert, introvert, you know, a million personality things that you could probably attach a lot of these things to there's part of the struggle right there and if you really listen closely i mean it was said in a not a lot nicer way than what uh jt miller has probably said to him over the years but what patrick alveen said in

his interview with ian mcintyre is probably not all that different than the things that miller and the rest of the team and the coaching staff and everyone else has been thinking. Yeah, well, you don't have to tell me. I've been talking about it for the last few months. Seems like a year now. I do want to talk about another team, and that's the New York Rangers, because oddly enough, it's in some ways, if you believe the rumors and the speculation, kind of connected to the Canucks. What do you think the New York Rangers are going to do to get out of this tailspin?

There are rumors that Chris Durie likes JT Miller. Maybe he's going to call on JT Miller and try and get him out of Vancouver. The Rangers are not in a good way. They aren't in a good way. By the way, before we – sorry, and not to make you move on or go back to this but i just thought there was one other thing to point out about sure mcintyre's question about petterson and asking him about moving on before the no trade kicks in when i'd love to go back and ask a follow-up but when it says in the text that alvina is smiling and he says, well, you know, Jim's history.

Was that, was that pointed to some of the commentary that I've made over the last few years that when Jim Rutherford makes a mistake, he's not afraid to correct it. I thought it was just like, he, he's not afraid to trade guys. I just thought, I thought it was interesting that in an interview with the general manager, in that particular instance, I don't know if he kicked it upstairs

or kicked it over to his running mate, but I thought it was a very interesting way to answer the question. I'm kind of with you on that. Well, there's a million things to unpack. I mean, saying that facing the music and I guess I would say anything is possible. I mean, it's... I mean...

I can't remember a player one year into a deal quite like that being referenced like that by the front office. I can't.

On the phone lines we go. Thomas Drance joins us now on the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Drancer? Happy New Year. Gentlemen, happy New Year to you both.

I happen to remember that Philly trip, or I remember forgetting parts of that Philly trip with the two of you. Back when traveling to cover the Canucks involved like 10 media members from Vancouver in a bar in Philadelphia. We left the game at halftime because it was too cold. It was not our toughest moment

of our lives, but it was Murph who suggested it. He said, should we just leave? And we were all like, thank God someone said it. It was us two, Murph and Drance. We were playing pop a shot at some bar, just shooting hoops the whole time, knocking back beers. It was a good day, actually, in Philadelphia. We had a lot of fun.

I miss those times. Drancer, what are you looking at tonight? the whole time, knocking back beers. It was a good day, actually, in Philadelphia. I had a lot of fun. I miss those times. Yeah, Philly's great. Yeah. Drancer, what are you looking at tonight as the Canucks face off against the Kraken? Is it the revenge factor, or is it just trying to pull this team together? Yeah, just try to hold on. I mean, look, the truth is

is that before Quinn Hughes and Elias Pettersson left the lineup after Christmas, the Canucks had played pretty poor hockey for about a month and had mostly gotten away with it. And then without Quinn Hughes in the lineup against Calgary on, I guess, New Year's Eve. I mean, the Canucks were hanging on,

like they were hanging on by their fingernails. The, the, the truth is, is that like McKenzie Weger dictated the entire game at 5-on-5. The JT Miller line kind of won their matchup, and everything else was really tough. If Igor Sharangovich had an ounce of finish,

that game would have been put to bed much earlier. And if you didn't think that the Canucks were just hanging on, the Flames really left no doubt about it once Brock Besser got the game tying goal in the third period and the Flames just what put together six or seven consecutive heavy shifts all the Canucks could do was ice the puck and then they retook the lead and it was just like okay like the the Flames are throwing a five on five fastball right now that the Canucks can't catch up to at all at all and that's Calgary right like that's a pretty mediocre five on five team now the Kraken are also a pretty mediocre five on five team but without Hughes in the lineup um the Canucks are bad like the Canucks are a bad five on five team they they think about it this

way they won the special teams battle in Calgary. Their first line controlled play, right? And they got a pretty good goaltending performance out of Kevin Lankanen, especially given, you know, the amount of breakaways, for example, that the Flames were able to get and generate. And they still lost in regulation, right?

Like that's a lot of things that went their way and they still lost. So, yeah, I mean, I'm worried about what this Canucks team looks like without Quinn Hughes. That's a lot of things that went their way, and they still lost. I'm worried about what this Canucks team looks like without Quinn Hughes. I don't know that they have actual answers internally. I don't think it's a matter of, we've got to show up and focus and compete here, because I think they did that on New Year's Eve. To their credit, I thought they battled pretty hard.

That's not at issue. This is not that. This is a limited team that can't move the puck well enough and that probably doesn't have answers in the absence of, you know, their entire top pair and their second line center. Well, you know, and the other thing that you and I were talking about on Tuesday's show was about the goaltending and how, you know, it might be one of those things where your choice on a night-to-night basis is really about who's going to give you the best opportunity to win.

And that was another thing I noticed on New Year's Eve. The goaltending couldn't bail him out of that one. You're not going to get goaltending bailing you out of anything when you can only muster one goal of offense. I know Lankanen is probably the superior of the two choices right now, just in light of the fact that Demko didn't play great against Seattle. So he's got an opportunity now to have that revenge game that we were talking about, but it's not going to matter for anything

if they can't find a way to put more pucks in the back of the net. Yeah, I mean, they felt like they had three or four scoring chances all game against the Flames, max, and gave up probably 12, 12 to 15, somewhere in that range um it's a tough way to live it's a tough way to live and you know this is what the non-hughes minutes have looked like all season um and and it's actually been getting worse i'd say like really since miller's leave since miller took his leave in what the 18th or the 19th of November you know this has been coming like there there have been a lot of those games where Hughes and company right are able to pull it out though the Buffalo game the Detroit game

often against pretty middling opponents and and that sort of you know that disguised i think that like run of results especially on that road trip i think disguised how flawed vancouver's five on five game was right like these these non hughes minutes have been a problem all year but they've become a disaster really over the last month and change and now it's all non hughes minutes and like i don't know i i honestly i honestly think right now that this team with the way their five on five form is trending is like very much one of the four or five like this is very much like um you should be looking at these connects games on the schedule so long as hughes petterson and haronic are out and thinking about this team as being like very much

in the company of an Anaheim or a San Jose in terms of what you expect from them night to night like that's kind of where I think they're at one of the great things about last season was being able to talk about the games individually and get excited for games talk talk about matchups, because we had lost that for a while, especially in the latter half of seasons when it was over. And you're kind of like, yeah, the Canucks played last night. Who cares? What are we doing big picture? I found myself in the last little while thinking more big picture things about the Canucks, and I don't like it. I loved it last season when it was like, okay, we're going to preview a playoff series or how do

these teams match up? It felt like old times again. Now it's feeling like, well, old times but the bad type of old times. I'm just wondering about you personally. Have you found yourself thinking more big picture now? Big moves that they have to make

or just, God, where is this team going as opposed to last season where the big picture was still in mind but it was nice to be able to dig into games i don't think so i don't think so my my estimation of this team in the big picture hasn't really shifted um but frankly it didn't shift that much last year either. So much as I was just impressed with how they were able to kind of pull off a team that really did get better over the course of the year and kind of emerged as, you know, a fringe contender, right? One of those teams, you know, not,

not the inner circle five or six or seven that I'm going to say, have a chance to win the cup at the outset of the playoffs, but, you know, one of those teams where, hey, a couple things break their right, they break their way, they get a really good goaltending performance, they run a little hot, they can make some noise.

You know, I think they did get to that level last season, and I think they're still at that level. They're just hopelessly compromised right now. And so I don't i'm trying to i'm trying to view this in that way right like there was the first 16 games of this year i think there were signs of a team that could be pretty meaningful down the stretch that like mattered in nhl terms that had a norris caliber player, one of the six or seven most impactful skaters on the planet. And certainly one of the two most impactful defenders on the planet.

And he was playing at such a level that this team was going to have a shot if they could fix a couple of things. And, and, you know, the things that they needed to fix were ability to move the puck a little bit better on the second and third pair. Well, okay. That's a, that's like a Jim Rutherford special, right? Like that's, that's the Justin Schultz trade. Like we've seen Rutherford teams make that deal in the past. Right. So, you know, I don't think we should abandon that because they then lose Miller for 10

games. And by the time he's back, he's got the Hironix out and now we're talking about the team having no Pettersson or Hughes as well as Hronik and it's just such a mess now, right? But a mess for like hockey reasons. I don't mean a mess because of something Brad Richardson said on a podcast about the Pettersson and Miller's relationship two years ago that caused us to have to relitigate this topic for the 19th time. I'm talking about just like hockey wise, this team is,

this team doesn't have it in the absence of their top pair and Pettersson. And we know this. And so, you know, like, we'll see how much longer both of these players miss. We hope that they begin to get reinforcements as soon as tomorrow against Nashville, but you've got the Seattle game, this Nashville game, this Montreal game. And it's like, man, if you can come out of those three games with two or three points, right. And then you start to get bodies back.

We'll have a much better sense of what this team is after this Eastern conference road trip where the competition amps up a bit. You know, this next seven or eight games, I think, could be really determinative in terms of are we going to be talking about a playoff race down the stretch? Right. Because I think that's kind of where we're headed. If the Canucks continue to fritter away their margin of error and not fritter away like carelessly, but fritter it away because as a limited group right now, and then, and then it comes down to what they can do to sort of tweak and change and

get themselves back to the level that they were in the first month and a half of the season. And, and sort of sort of raise the baseline, especially if they're puck moving on the back end to the point where their true talent level matters, where they have a shot to sort of show it, especially if they're puck moving on the back end to the point where their true talent level matters, where they have a shot to sort of show it, especially if Demko can get healthy and if Miller can find his game a bit

and, you know, on and on about the things that could break this team's way. If Peronik comes back and he's, you know, able to shoot and looking like actually well, as opposed to what you sometimes get from those players who decline to have surgery and try to rehab in season and come back and don't quite look like themselves and on and on, right? Like,

if they get some of those breaks, I still think they can be in that mix as a team. Hey, look, we're not looking at them as one of the best teams in the West, but we're looking at them as one of those teams in the next tier that has a shot if some things go their way. So little has gone their way that I think it's hard for us to see clearly what this team is, which I still think is something like the eighth to tenth best team in the sport. Yeah. Do you still expect them to make the playoffs? If you're looking at the teams that they're fighting with, it's Calgary, St. Louis, Utah, and Seattle for that final playoff spot. I can't help but think if they get their players back

sooner rather than later and they get healthy they should still make the playoffs now what they do once they get to the playoffs that's kind of let's not talk about that right now but do you still expect them to make the playoffs yeah but but but more narrowly than I did, right? I mean, I do think they'll make the playoffs, but especially because Utah's kind of hit like a holiday divot. Utah's the team that I think has the sort of speed where it's like, oh, no, right? Like we've found ourselves in a playoff race with a team that's reeled off like the sixth best point percentage in the league for three months, you know? And that to me is the risk that the Coloradoado figures it out um well which they will and then utah actually starts to deliver

on some of their promise and get some of their defensemen back and get some solid goaltending and it's like oh man utah's this dark horse this real dark horse team to me that's the story that causes the canucks to miss um and it looked like it was panning out for a bit in mid-December, that Utah part of it, but they've stumbled their last three or four games. So, you know, we'll see. I think the Canucks can outlast both of Utah and Calgary, which are really the two teams in that mix. Not St. Louis, not really the Kraken that I'm taking seriously as aspirants.

But yeah, I think they should be able to outlast them given the talent level of this roster, provided that they don't have another run of cataclysmic injuries. But, you know, I do think, for example, if they don't get Pedersen back against Nashville, if we don't see Hughes until they play in Washington next week, for example, and they win one of their next three, well, look,

we're going to be talking about a team that's got work to do, like real work to do. And at the very least, the like, are they above the playoff bar? Are they not? Storyline is going to permeate through the four nations tournament if the next week unfolds like

that and and then yeah i mean it's at least going to be something we're monitoring and talking about i think uh over the course of the next month unless you know they can really get to work here in hughes's absence uh and and sort of nip that storyline in the butt as it were does it feel like the brock besser story has almost been overshadowed by everything else that's been happening with this team i mean this is a massive decision that the canucks have to make with besser whether to sign him keep him um or you know like trade him before the trade deadline um what factors do you think they're weighing right now with besser well i i mean it's good that he's played better the last what week i'd say like the last week to

10 days yes he's kind of played better hockey which is good i think when he first came back from uh the janeau hit the injury that he sustained as a result of the Genoa hit, he looked like we sometimes see skilled players and finishers look when they return from brain injuries, which is not themselves. But I think he's looked more like himself recently. I think you've seen some of the hand-eye stuff get better and become more devastating. I think you've seen some of the hand-eye stuff get better and become more devastating. I think you've seen the hockey IQ play.

I think you've seen how important he is. Like, he's this team's best winger, in my opinion. And I don't think it's like, I don't think that's, is that controversial? Like, I think he's the team's best winger so the you know the the balance of things that they have to consider here is you certainly have to be mindful of term especially given the the foot speed issue right the the fact that besser is not a burner and that probably doesn't get better with age and does that impact his ability to play a match-up role and how much term are you willing to commit uh if you're afraid of that or if you're nervous about that or if that's something that you consider and you know for i mean there is a template of what rutherford

players tend to look like and you know you tend to have to be kind of big fast or elite right like that's kind of the the big fast or elite are you one of those three things? And Besser's been elite, you know, certainly was last season, has been for stretches this season. But, you know, there is like a stylistic, there's a stylistic component to this that I sort of wonder about, which is if the team is worried that he won't be fast enough to be elite for long, right? How mindful do they have to be about term?

How much does that impact what they're weighing? And then, of course, there's the, you's the fact that this group has been pretty reluctant, generally speaking, to lose players on expiring deals for nothing unless it's last season. And those players are players that they think can help them win a cup. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.