Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 12/30/25

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Brough and guest host Josh Elliott-Wolfe look back at the previous day in sports, they talk last night's OT 'Nucks win over the Kraken, plus they preview tonight's matchup versus the Flyers with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Liam Ogren in on the court shoots. He scores. Liam Ogren in the shootout, one of the newest caduks, wins it for Vancouver. they take it three to two over the crackin. Bajon Robinson, 30, 35, 40, midfield. It's a fun race. Robinson 30, 15, 10, 5 house call.

Are you serious? 69 hits this season. Nice. Nice. Nice. Welcome to Halford and Brough still know Mike Halfer. Josh Elliott will filling in for him this week. But Jason Brough is here.

Good morning, Jason. Good morning, Josh. How are you? I'm doing well. A, dog, good morning. Good morning. Laddie, good morning. Hello, hello.

Anything you would like to apologize for, Lattie? No. Because I didn't hear the fan blogger before the show. Are you tanking? Is that one? Yes. Okay. We're not supposed to enjoy these wins, right?

Isn't that what's going on right now? Okay. It was totally intentional. Okay. 100% intentional. All right. Sorry, Josh. Halford and Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates.

Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks, visit sands-trustee.com. This hour of Halpernabruff is brought to you by Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats a Duick deal since 1926. Visit Duick GM, Omnarene Drive, downtown in Richmond, and at duikaudergroup. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Happy holidays from all the team at Kintech. Footwear and orthotics. All right, you can text in as well. 650, 650 is the Dunbar Lumber Text Line. Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contracting. and Renner Warriors for over 50 years visit them at one of their three locations

to serve you or online at Dunbarlumber.com. It's another four-guester on the show today. It'll start at 6.30 with Greg Waschinsky, senior NHL writer for ESPN, and the biggest story in the

NHL right now might be the Buffalo Sabres. Nine wins in a row for our sad club brethren out in Buffalo. Just so happy for them. Imagine if they make the playoffs and the Red Wings make the playoffs, breaking the droughts. Yeah.

It would be awesome for Buffalo. I hope one of those happens. I don't really care about Detroit, but I hope it happens for Buffalo. 7 o'clock, Brandon Batchelor, voice of the Vancouver Canucks. You can hear them last night on the call on Sportsnet 650, and tonight as well on the station when the Canucks take on the flyers. We'll talk about last night's game. We'll preview Rick Tockett's return to. Vancouver we saw them play against each other last week but now is his his voyage back into

Vancouver and we'll see what the reception is like for him 730 matt vertram NFL staff writer for Sports Illustrated we'll talk about a week 18 in the NFL anything and everything on the line for a few teams around the league and at 8 o'clock thomas trance covers the canucks for the athletic one half of canucks talk here on sports net 650 we will We'll talk about last night's game and everything going on with Vancouver Canucks off the ice as well. When are they going to make a trade? We'll talk to Trance about that at 8 o'clock. So working in reverse, 8 o'clock Thomas Dran, 7.30, Matt Verdeh, 7 o'clock, Brendan Batcheloran, 630, Greg Wyshinsky.

That's what's happening on the show. Laddy, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was. We know how busy your life can be. What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance,

making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit BCCSA.com.C.S.a.com. The Vancouver Canucks win in a shootout against Seattle in Seattle last night, three, two. And the game, first period, almost started with a very big. Seattle Bank because it was a breakaway 30 seconds or a minute in and Tyler Myers was chasing his stick in the offensive zone corner and the crack and were like hey that's a great time to have a breakaway and then they they did do that they did not score on it though Kevin lincoln who was awesome last night made one of his few first period big saves and later in the period though the crack and do score Jared McCann open scoring eight minutes in on a four on three

power play for the Cracken, but Linus Carlson answered back. Linus Carlson tied for second on the Canucks in goals. He gets his ninth goal of the season off a nice setup from Liam O'Grathen, tying him again for second on the team in goals this season. It also came moments after a Connor Garland and Jared McCann fight because of a play earlier in the first period where McCann was like, I think you elbowed me. And I'm not sure if it was worth a fight,

but they fought regardless and I don't know who do you think won the fight I think Garland won the fight because the Canucks scored right after Fair enough So Garland won that fight Yeah that was actually

There was a couple of haymakers I was surprised It wasn't bad It was a spirited tilt It wasn't bad The Cracken did get the lead back Late to end the first period But the Canucks put together

A nice passing play In the second period Zbouiam to Tom Vallander To Van der Kaine Who made a nice pass to one Elias Pedersen who didn't hesitate he shot the puck, he shot it well

and he tied the game and that ended up being the final goal in regulation all the way until a overtime that happened the Canucks had to kill a penalty but outside of that there wasn't too much

going on and then in the shootout Kevin Lankan he doesn't lose those. He is 17 for 17. That's incredible. 17 for 17. That's crazy. Absolutely insane. In the shootout this season, Liam Ogren, again, his second shootout winner in a Vancouver Canucks jersey. And he wins the game. Kevin Lankenen wins the game for them. The Canucks win three to two in a shootout in Seattle. Oh, okay. Did we just lose a fucking Canucks? There you go. Okay, you got it in there. Nice. We did it. Okay. A few things

to talk about. There was, I'm reading the Dunbar-Lumber text line right now from the post-game show. And And there are some complaints about the way the Canucks played in overtime and in general. And basically it's to get to the shootout. And when Kevin Lankinen is in net and the way he's been in the shootout, and also you got Liam Ogren now, who's an automatic goal apparently in the shootout for the Canucks, I don't blame the Canucks for playing that way, and I don't blame the coach for playing that way. If you're a board team tank, you cannot blame the players for trying to win and you cannot blame the coach for trying to win.

The only people that are going to really influence team tank is management, and that would be from trading players away. Now, you can not like the way they play in overtime. It's certainly not exciting. No, it's terrible. Let's be honest. terrible. It's terrible to watch. And Drance, he's probably going to come on and call it cynical, right? Which is a term you'd hear in soccer a lot. You know, like they're playing a cynical style, you know, if it's like England at the World Cup, they're trying to get to the

shootout or whatever, although that hasn't always gone well for them. Yeah. Pelley kicks. But, you know, it is just, it is the way that they think they have a better chance to win. And IMAQ pointed this out in his post-game article up on sportsnet.ca, it is the best way for them to win. They're very right about that. You know, and they don't have, you know, like, when you think about what you need to be successful in overtime, you need burners and you need guys that can rip shots, right? You need a lot of offensive creativity and speed helps. Look at the Canucks

The Canucks have a lot of that Yeah like they don't That's the problem right So there's a lot of There's a lot of circling back And you know Getting the zone and then leaving the zone And then getting the zone again

And then going nah Leave the zone You know Brock Besser Made a bad pass in overtime And that was like Don't do that You can't give the puck up

You're supposed to just have it The whole time You're supposed to just have it kill the five minutes and it's awful to watch and you know I was I was a little surprised the Seattle fans didn't get on the Canucks a little bit more because sometimes you get a little boo them at least you know but look

Lankinen 17 for 17 that that is the way to win the game and that's what they did they didn't deserve to win the game last night Lankin had stopped 39 shots and then three more then three more in the shootout so I guess there's not much more to say on that

it's just like if you want to if you if you're going to get upset about the Canucks winning games and especially like that where they don't play particularly well but they they gutted out because mostly while Kevin Lankinen then your beef is with management your beef isn't with the with the players especially not Kevin Lankin and your beef isn't even with Adam Foote the head coach because he's trying to win games

out there. That's its job. Other things that I wanted to talk about, I think it's it's great in this year where things haven't gone very well for the Canucks to have a positive story like Linus Carlson. It's been a long road from the time he was drafted 2018 by San Jose to now. I've heard personally many times, and it's been reported as well, that he really put the work in in Abbotsford, really taking advantage of having the likes of the Siddines and Manny Malhotra to learn from. And I was reading a couple articles last night

where he credited the Siddins for helping him with the details around the net, the tips, and finding the soft areas. And finding the soft areas exactly what he did last night off a lost face off. Liam Ogren made a good play to get to that loose puck. And then Carlson is in that soft area in the slot where Ogham

he made a nice pass to Carlson and Carlson put it home. The Cineens, if you think about it, they weren't the greatest skaters and neither is Carlson. But you can make up for that if you're smart and you use your body the right way and Carlson's a pretty big

dude. And I don't know I just it's nice it's nice to have a story like that I thought Carlson showed a lot at the end of last season I was like there's something there and obviously he was

he was a he was a key in Abbotsford's run to the championship but even at the NHL level I thought you could see something he's pretty heavy on his stick so good for Linus Carlson like you like to see that story

of development down in the AHL like it actually really haven't produced enough players that have gone on to be good NHL players from the HL. And he spent a long time down there. He's, what was he, 26 now? Yeah. I mean, that's a story of perseverance for Linus Carlson and not giving up.

You know, a lot of people in his position are like, well, why don't you just go back and play professionally in Sweden? I was like, well, I don't want to. I want to play in the NHL. And now he's playing really well. You know, you already mentioned this, but that was a really nice goal. that Pedersen scored in the second taking a beautiful pass from Kane

and ripping that wrist or pass to cord that was a great shot and as you mentioned there was no hesitation after he picked it up you know so that's that's another positive and you know good for Garland for taking that fight yeah like he's he knows the situation the Canucks are in

and he's still taking that fight where I don't think a lot of people would take fights in the season that the connects are having, right? The fights aren't fun to have. And I know he wasn't fighting Ryan Reeves or anything who's fighting Jared McCann, which, to be fair, it might be fun to punch

Jared McCann in the face. But, you know, good for Garland for staying in the fight. Again, this isn't, you can't ask the players to tank. It's a silly notion. But I do wonder when management is going to pull the trigger on some trades. Yeah. Because first of all, you got Jake DeBrasque as a healthy scratch.

Like there's too many bodies right now, right? There's too many bodies. So make some trades and let's get this going. My main takeaway, especially in regards to, so yeah, Jake DeBress scratch last night. You had Linus Carlson scoring a goal and he's looked well and it feels like there's maybe more opportunity for him to get an elevated role. But you look at the logjam.

of wingers, and it's not even like great wingers, it's just, it's good winger that he probably wouldn't take out a lineup. Like, Brock Besser, he has one goal in his last 20 games, but he's still Brock Besser. Like, you're not going to take him out. Apparently he's a key cog on the P.K. Now, right, which is good for him. A van der Kaine, like, he's been better lately, to be fair, but you're not going to take a pass on the Pedersen. Yeah, not going to take him out, Kiefer Sherwood, Drew O'Connor. Like, you have all these guys that are good, but they're kind of, in the way if you're trying to have guys graduate into bigger roles,

like namely Carlson or Hoaglander or, I mean, a lot of people are going to want to see like Lechermacky down the stretch as well, especially if he can get into a top six role. So the, there's the, they should be trying to push this simply to improve their draft position, like try to trade a Kiefer Sherwood or someone else to get a little bit worse,

but also from the perspective of giving your young guys a shot, in a season where everybody is just clamoring to see young points. I wonder if they could create some urgency on the Sherwood trade market. Is there anything you could tell potential acquiring teams like, we're going to set a deadline for this? So get your best bids in? I don't know. I don't know if that would work.

Because I know what they're trying to do. They're trying to get the best return. They can get for him. And there might be some teams that are telling them, look, I don't want to do this now. Yeah. We're not even into 2026. I would rather do this after the Olympic break, right at the trade deadline,

when I know for sure what my team needs. Especially because the Eastern Conference is so tight, too. Well, that's a good point, right? Like, you know, you look at Buffalo, they win nine in a row. They go from bottom of the conference all the way into a playoff spot. I don't know if you've noticed, but the Bruins have lost six in a row. row, they're out of a playoff spot now. Yeah.

Ottawa, every time I look at the standings, they're either in or they're out, like, I don't know what's going on. The Leafs are last in the conference, and yet I don't even know if they're completely out of it yet. No, like there are four points out, point percentage, like it's a bigger gap, but four points out, like, no team in the Eastern Conference is out of it right now. So if you are the Knochson, I think we've gotten to the point, especially with Kiefer Sherwood, where it's like, hey, you're kind of holding out for at least a first

round pick, or I think what we hope would be a first round pick. the teams, at least in the Eastern Conference, are probably not jumping at the opportunity to give you a first round pick until they know, to your point, that they're going to be in a playoff spot, and that might not happen until after the Olympic break, or at the very least, I think it's still going to be two or three more weeks, but every game I watch, and I'm like, okay, I hope Sherwood scores a goal just to keep it going, or I'm just watching, and I'm like, please don't get hurt. because if Kiefer Sherwood gets hurt I'm going to be very upset about not moving him when they maybe could have had a chance to move them for what they can get right now but anyway that's the takeaways from last night tonight it's the Vancouver Canucks

taking on the Philadelphia Flyers Rick Tockett's return to Vancouver This is first game back Rick Tocke? Yeah I could have sworn he was here already okay that's wild well because they played against him last It's going to be a big one but in Philly Yes I remember that And they had and Talk was on with Donnie and Dolly

So maybe that's what you're... What do you think his reception is going to be like? I think it'll be mostly positive. But like most things when it comes to the Canucks, opinions vary. For example, I like a lot of the media, let's be honest, liked what Talkett brought to the Canucks. I thought he brought respectability back to the way they played. Respectability, not necessarily entertainment, but respectability.

It was temporary, but the Canucks did buy in that season, that Tocket was named Coach of the Year. And the results were better than they've been in a while. And excitement about the Canucks very much returned to the city. I also understand the criticisms because the style he coaches isn't very entertaining. And I think it's very possible that there is a limited ceiling to it. And I think Talkett realized that too, which is why he tried. to evolve the team only for that project to be undone by poor personnel on the back end. And I'm not sure if you guys heard about this, but there was a rift between...

What? Yeah, there was a rift. Get out of here. Between a couple of the Canucks. Now that sounds insane. Yeah, yeah, Pedersen and Miller. And then they eventually actually traded Miller. Where?

The Rangers, yeah. Oh, my goodness. How could professional athletes act like that? And then, I don't know if you guys remember this, but Tuckett just, he just walked away. He's like, I'm out of here. Which I understand, I also understand, irked some people because Tockeet was the guy that was, you know, what was his, what was his saying? Embrace the hard. You know, which was.

Me, pressure with pressure. Me, pressure with pressure. Embrace the hard, but not that hard. He's like, accept the deal from Philly, right? That was his third model. They've got three practice sheets. I'm going there. Yeah.

That's what I want. Well, I also think that Tocke, looked at the team and went, I don't, you know, he, look, I think Tocquet probably, I think Tocke was asked if Hughes told him he wasn't saying. He was like, nah, no, I don't know about that. I think he might have had an idea. And I think he, uh, he didn't necessarily believe in his number one center. So, and he didn't have J.T. Miller anymore. So I think he, he looked at that and then looked at the opportunity in, in Philly. And things are going pretty well for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for with the Flyers. They're in a playoff spot right now. And, you know, I was reading a reading an article

about Talks Return to Vancouver and, uh, the Flyers captain, Sean Couturey said, we're all buying into the style of play he wants us to play. It's been working so far. So it's been fun. And that sounds like his first full season with the Vancouver Canucks when they were all buying in. And yeah, it was fun because they were winning. They were having success. Yes. Zegris has done well under Rick Tocket, where a lot of people wondered how he'd do in that system, considering the type of player. But the results have been mixed with Mitchcoff and a lot of the criticisms that Rick Tockett received for how, I don't know, he coached Elias Pederson, he's getting for how he's coaching Mitchcoff. so I think the opinions on Tocquet in Philly are mixed even though they're having a pretty good season

and they're in a playoff spot right now the hiring of Rick Tockeet in Philly was not universally loved because I think there was a lot of criticism of Tockeet in Vancouver and don't forget that everyone outside of Vancouver was following the Canucks soap opera because it was hilarious

A lot of people like, what? They got a fight between two of their players. And one of them is going to be traded. And one of the narratives that came through is that Rick Talkett was not good for Elias Pedersen. And that comment he made about trying to reprogram PD like that, his critics took that and ran with it. And Tocke knew it, right?

Like he referenced it. He's like, I made that comment and people lost their minds. And I think people, are thinking that he's trying similar stuff with Mitchcoff and he might be. And I think there was even a comment that Mitchcoff didn't show up in the greatest shape this season.

It's very similar. The quotes and stuff have been very similar from Mitchcove to what was happening with Pedersen. But that being said, like I don't know, even as a Pedersen guy, I never looked at Rick Tockett as the issue for what was going on with Elias Pedersen. I figured it was something

that Lee's Pedersen had to solve himself. And I mean, I maybe had some hope that it was Rick Tocket, just because that would be super easy if Adam Foote came in and it was like, oh, Patterson's fixed, but he's not. So clearly it wasn't Rick Tocket. I do think the, I don't know, the feeling the rhetoric around Rick Tocket has kind of gotten out of hand over the last few months for Canucks fans where they're like, he isn't even a good coach. And I'm like, I think he's a pretty good coach. And I think the Canucks would have loved to have Rick Tockett. Well, they tried to keep them. They were very disappointed when he walked away.

Mark texts into the Dunbar-Lumber text line. Tuckett gets immediate results, but his style does long-term damage to franchises and individual players. Damage is a... I don't know. I feel like the Canucks do enough damage to themselves.

Yeah. Without Rick Tocke's help. But there are styles that certain players play well under and certain players don't play well under. My thing with, Pedersen and Tuckett's style of hockey

is that Petey was playing unbelievable hockey for the first half of the season. Yeah. Do you remember that trip through New York where the lotto line was reunited?

What a time. Pedersen scored a goal that was actually a lot like the goal that Gavin McKenna scored against Denmark yesterday for his hat-trick goal. It was very similar. It was beautiful. incredible hands around the net.

That was some of the best hockey I've ever seen. Actually, well, not ever, but in the last decade, the Canucks as a team play. And then we all know that the All-Star break happened and the Canucks started pressuring Pedersen to either sign long term or they're going to trade them. And I think that was more where Pedersen's game fell off.

It wasn't a style thing. It was just his game fell off. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. What we just have to call Thomas Dran's erotica. Thomas Grant's erotica. Thomas Transerotica

Dodd model Thomas transerotica Rush Thomas transerotica PEDI O

Thomas transerotica Welcome back to Halford and Brough Josh Elliott Wolf filling in for Mike Halford this week, Jason Brough is here

and Halford & Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks. Visit sands-trustee.com and this hour of Halford & Brough is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers. Trust the expertise

of Campbell and Pound. Visit Campbell-Dash-Pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Happy holidays from all the team at Kintech footwear and orthotics. 650-6-50 is the Dunbar-Lumbertext line. Get your what we learns in there and we'll hit them in about half an hour.

But right now we go to the phone lines and we welcome in Thomas Dranz. Covers the Canucks for the athletic and is one half of Canucks talk with Jamie Dodd here on Sportsnet 650. Drance appreciate you taking the time. If you could describe how the Canucks play in overtime using one word

or maybe a few words, how would you describe it? Oh, probably just I hate it Fair enough Like I mean I look it It makes sense It's not I'm not critical of the strategy

Especially with what Kevin Lankenen's 10 for 10 in the shootout Yeah I mean he's Ridicrous And you know Like I'm I'm so serious too I really do think that Finland should be bringing him to the Olympics

where games are decided in the shootout, including in the elimination round, and using him like the Dutch used Tim Kruel, right? Like, I really think he should be going in as a shootout specialist. I don't know why you wouldn't do that in international hockey, to be totally honest with you. He's a wall. I mean, it's incredible.

So I totally understand why you'd want to play conservative, a conservative style, but I just don't, I don't have to, I can accept that it makes sense for them to play that way without liking it, right? Yeah, I thought you were going to say cynical. We were just trying to make you say cynical, because I know that's one of your favorite words. Oh, it is cynical.

I mean, there's no question that it's cynical. But yeah, I think it's okay to just be like, aesthetically, that's a disaster and something that I actually think necessitates a rule change from the league. Drans, I wanted to chat with you because I haven't chatted with you since you published your article outlining the Canucks plan.

It was a great piece of reporting. I enjoyed it very much. I have a question for you because I think there's a lot of confusion among the fan base about how much the Canucks are going to try and win versus not care about winning. Next season, are they going to try and make the playoffs? So that's a big one. I mean, I think the short answer is yes, but not going all out to do so, right?

Not doing so the way they tried to in like 2021, 22 where you had that off season where they did like the OEL trade. Right? I mean, they're going to be willing to keep an eye on the future. they understand that there's got to be a multi-year. Like, I don't want to say a multi-year restocking. Let's use that word as a reword here. I think there's an understanding that that's going to be necessary in the absence of Quinn Hughes and in the wake of that trade.

But, you know, I don't think this team's tearing down in any way that we would view as it, like, as typical of a rebuilding team. I don't think that's necessarily in the plans. You know, I think provided that the veteran players that they've committed to buy into mentoring young players and providing the environment, the sort of environment where players can learn and on and on, I think they're going to be able to stick around. I think the club intends to honor some of those extensions that were done

like in the last six months, right? This team hasn't arrived here by plan. I mean, there's no question about that, right? Like this is not, it was not a plan to arrive in this spot. It was the plan to take a moonshot and be willing to take on some risk and sign some players that were tight with Quinn Hughes in order to try and convince him to stay. I mean, that's what the club tried to do. And it didn't work.

It didn't go off. This season went poorly. And, you know, as a reaction to that, I think the team is willing to sit in to some extent where they find themselves in the standings. And I think some cynicism may be employed down the stretch too in order to, you know, make some business decisions about where this club finishes. Yeah. But, you know, I don't think this is a rebuild by any recognition. definisable definition. I don't think this team is going to be going about, like, for example, I, you know,

I saw Jake Debrusk gets healthy scratched, right? And then Andrew Mangupani has been healthy scratched, and people have been drawing connections there, right? Like, oh, well, and of course, Manjupani has two years left at 3.8, and Jake Debrusk is signed forever at a cap hit that's $2 million higher. And obviously, Debrusk is a higher caliber of player. and I think there's been people just speculatively linking like, oh, could that be an option, right?

And that would make an abundance of sense for the Canucks to manage like the term on some of these long-term deals while getting paid to do so, right? For me, that's like a no-brainer. I'd be pretty surprised. I mean, not saying that those connections are completely wrong or anything like that. We'll see how things go.

Things can be unpredictable, especially once healthy scratches are involved. but, you know, that, like, that's outside the realm of the sort of deal that I think the connects are going to prioritize making here. Like, I'm expecting more things like Sherwood for a draft pick and a prospect. You know, I'm expecting them to be willing to move that Minnesota Wild first in the event that they can find a young player, right? Like, I don't think we're going to see this team accumulate just an absurd mass of draft capital necessarily, right? players are still going to be a preference. There's not going to be a prioritization to move, you know,

veteran players with term on their deal. I think this team is comfortable rolling with both Demko and Lankinit, right? Like a bunch of stuff that if I were, you know, if you were to ask me to like diagnose what are the four moves the Canucks should make from a rebuilding perspective, you know, I think like not carrying 13 million in goal over a two-year stretch where I don't think you're going to be. contending would be like number one on the list, I think they're comfortable with that. And so I think that's actually pretty revealing in terms of what the philosophy of this

hybrid rebuild means. It means that they're going to try and restock, but they're not necessarily going to be tearing down, right? And I think that's sort of how I view it. I think the way that we think about rebuilding, and it's become sort of such a like semantic fight in hockey circles. And by the way, I think that's driven by the team's complete antipathy for the concept, right? Like, I don't think that's this market. That's, this organization has such a weird relationship with the idea of doing anything sensible in terms of considering the long term that they've made it into a word that like can't be said. And there's probably internal political reasons for that in terms of managing up too, right? Like that's,

you know, I like, don't make, this isn't about ticket sales. Like this is not about ticket sales fundamentally. It's not about what's external. It's about what's internal. This is this organization's mania about the concept of rebuilding, something that clearly should be necessary for just about every NHL team once every 25 years. Like this is not a normal thing that this market has made a topic. This is something organizationally, there is a inability to talk normally about. But usually rebuilding includes two things, tanking and tearing down, right? Those are sort of the two concepts that we understand as being part of a rebuilding process.

And I think the tanking element is something this team is going to be willing to consider more strongly than the tearing down part of it. And I think that's why you get to hybrid retool or retool in a little bit of a hybrid form or, you know, whatever gobbledygook you want to, you want to describe it as. Okay. I think it's pretty obvious to all the listeners that we are skeptical about this plan. have you outlined a way in your head where two to three years down the line whoa

it worked what does that look like because I think yeah because I think my problem right now is I look at this team I don't think we have to be polite about it like that to be totally honest with you well but I'm just wondering what

what they think how do you get game breaking talent in more than one by the way game breaking talent in which you know every Stanley Cup contender or champion as more than one game breaking player

like even if they win like Gavin McKenna's sweepstakes like that's not it they're going to have to you know plus you've got the and I know you noted this in your column kind of you said like these

contracts that you sign these are depreciating assets once these guys get into their 30s they're not going to get better right you know and Brock is close and Jake is close close. Like these guys, Petey's

getting close, right? None of them are young guys anymore. So yeah, I mean, are you gonna punt on my question? Like, do they just get like... Sorry, you I mean, I don't think it will work. Like, I fundamentally, I actually think more important than tanking

is the act of tearing down. Like, I think the act of tearing down is... But don't those go hand in hand? Like, you remove some veteran players that are like like Garland's a good player. He's a good player. You take them off the team. team, the team is not as good. That goes with tanking.

It does, but also, you know, as we've seen, if you're trading good player for more depth, right? Like if you're trading Garland and getting players back, and even if those players aren't as good, you know, you are sometimes able to hobble along being roughly as good, right? I mean, this team lost Quinn Hughes and how many points have they amassed since then? Now, that's not to say that it's going to continue, right? I don't think it will. I don't think this team's played especially good hockey.

I mean, they never have the puck. Like, this team never has the puck, right? No. And that's probably the most prominent feature of watching them play, in my opinion anyway, right? They're scoring a bunch of goals off of, like, sort of four-cha. Like, the Pedersen goal yesterday actually stood out to me because it was one where the Canucks entered the puck with control,

found a guy in a sort of quiet area, the ice in a high danger scoring area, and he made a skill play. And I was like, whoa. Like, I think that's the first one they've scored, other than the Z. Bume to, uh,

Bueh to, uh, Drew O'Connor, the five two goal with 20 seconds left in the Flyers game. And usually if they do get those chances, it's one and done. One and then. Well,

and I, what, they don't get those chances. Like Jason, they don't get those chances. So, you know, that play stood out to me last night because it was the sort of play that we just don't see this team execute very often, or at least haven't since the Quinn Hughes trade.

They've still been winning games. My point being, I think that the act of amassing draft capital for me is, like, more important fundamentally than where you draft. You know, taking maximizing your swings. And being careful about your long-term contractual commitments, to me, that's actually the bigger part of this than the tank to the bottom of the standings, although I would prefer to see a team intentionally do both. How does this work? So, I mean, you know, like, it works if Thatcher Demco remains durable for four or five, like for the life of this next contract, I suppose. You are able to get a mega return for Sherwood.

You're able to get a second for Evander Kane. You know, you are able to back into an elite center in the draft in the next two years. Pedersen bounces back to the point where he's, you know, a star level contributor and maintains that form for five years. And you get, you know, one of the top guys from this draft class, one of the top winger specifically. and so you end up, you know, coming out of this process with, like, Coots hitting his ceiling. Bouillon becomes like a Shea Theodore caliber defender. You know, Stenberg or McKenna become an absolute monster. You have another center who's young and is like trending to be better than Pedersen.

And all of these young guys or all of these sort of aging veterans, right? like you end up in the spot where it's like Garland's playing with you know, Pedersen on a second line and Brock Besser fits perfectly with the new center you find and Jake Debrusk and Braden Coots are this

like elite counterattacking third line and the leadership group evolves like somehow and the culture evolves somehow. Yeah I mean I'm like I think if absolutely everything goes right you still

probably stall out being well short of the level of team that the Colorado avalanche are now. But nonetheless, I think that's sort of the rosy picture. And I mean, so here's my follow-up. Okay. In your reporting and you're talking to people, why? Why are they doing it this way? Is it about ticket sales? Is it about being able to go to season ticket holders every time? that you know it's a renewal and say like like let next season I think you know like if we're if everything goes right for us we we could be a playoff team I know it didn't go great for us last season but like you know I think I think we've got a chance so please renew yeah

now that's you know what that's a good question and I'm not exactly sure I mean I think you can't divorce the I think you can't divorce the probability in my mind, from my mind. So I don't know. The answer is I don't know. But I guess the way that I'd editorialize around my lack of knowledge, like as I'd think my way through this, I would say that this team found themselves in a position

where they were at the bottom of the standings and what happens when you fail, right? Some knives come out, right? Some vultures begin to circle. Some politics must be navigated. And, you know, I do think fundamentally, doing the Quinn Hughes trade does not necessarily position you to have been in a rebuild. It's just a move that became necessary because this team wasn't going to be able to keep Quinn Hughes, right? And also, I think, is a move that buys a management group that might be embattled some time.

and now we're looking around, or the same management group that traded Quinn Hughes, the same management group that built this team originally, right, and signed Garland and signed Demco and extended Besser and on and on, and signed DeBrusk just 16 months ago, you know, lands in a spot where you need to look to the future and that reality is glaringly obvious to everybody else. and you couldn't possibly suggest credibly to your fan base that you're not looking to the future.

And yet you also are sort of hamstrung or hog-tied in terms of how many mistakes you can make. Right, Laura? Like how many mistakes you can admit to? Right? And I think that's where you land, where it's like, well, we're, you know, we need to look to the future because we couldn't keep Quinn Hughes and because the J.T. Miller personality clash

and a bunch of stuff that's outside our bar control, but that doesn't mean that all these contracts we committed to for older guys were like bad calls, right? Like, these guys can be part of the solution. They're still youngish. We can do a hybrid retool or a retool in a little bit of a hybrid form. And that would be my skeptical sort of explanation for how you land here and how the story

as an organization tells itself, I guess, in sort of how it lands in a place where you trade a Norris caliber defender and are still reluctant to do the sorts of things that most any other team in this circumstance would. I wonder if anything could still change considering we got half a season left and we got some lengthy homestands.

I'm just curious, you know, I think it's going to be very difficult for this group of players to maintain enthusiasm for the season. and I think we're watching Brock Besser play. He is not playing like an enthusiastic player right now. Yeah, you might be able to bring in some young guys and they'll play enthusiastically

because they're playing for their careers. But, you know, in order to keep all these guys engaged, the veterans that you've got signed long-term, I just wonder how much things could change with some of these homestands and the fan reaction. They better be better at home because, Do you know what I mean? Like, there's half a season to go.

I mean, I think we saw it last night. Like, I think there was a wake-up call delivered in the wake of those performances against Philadelphia and then San Jose on either side of the holiday break. And then a veteran player with big money and term on their deal gets scratched. And, like, for what it's worth, I thought the Canucks played a pretty exuberant game last night. Like, I thought they brought the violence. I thought they brought the intensity. So, you know, I think they did snap to attention during that game last night.

I think there's actually a concern in there in that I thought the Canucks were playing their absolute guts out to watch them play last night, like way higher level of intensity than you usually see in late December, and they still never had the pocket gates to Seattle Cracken team that I don't think is making the playoffs. Give up 39 shots against the Cracken. Yeah, I mean, and one, and that third period, I mean, they were just getting dominated along the wall. Who had played the night before? Was it the Canucks or the Cracken?

Right. So my point being, my point being like, you know, there's a negative in that too, but at the very least, like, clearly there was an effort made to make, you know, make people uncomfortable in a productive way. And it did elicit the desired response from this team. Like I would say that team worked, you know, their guts out last night. and did pay off, but also it was the sort of win, much like that Boston win, right, where you get the two points, but it's the sort of win that often signals that the party is

about to end. Yeah, it wasn't confidence-inspiring. It was gutsy, I would say. Like, you know, the Garland fight, I think that said a lot about... Oh, man, that little leaping uppercut, that was ferocious. No, seriously, that was a nasty bit of work. it'd be fun to punch Jared McCann I imagine a lot of players would like to do that I mean it would be fun to punch Connor Garland too I imagine if you play against him right

if you can I think that I wonder to it if Garland has has to have a little bit of like prison yard mentality where it's like you got to get that extra shot in definitely to dissuade anyone from fighting you just given the realities of playing the way he plays at his size in the NHL I wonder if there's an element of like a signal to people where it's like Ooh, that I don't. You got to make sure everyone thinks twice about it before fighting you. All right, Dranser, this wasn't fun, but it was kind of fun, if you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean, I'm always happy to chat about it.

And I mean, there's still things that I'll need to figure out. And I think you're right. Things can and do change. I mean, that's the rule of the NHL. But I would say just this. I just add this, like, you're watching these. games, we're watching these games, your listeners are watching these games, and some of them are sweating wins, and I strongly advised against it. I think what you're seeing with your eyes

is plain. Like, this team's not getting up to the seventh overall pick. Like, their draft position, they're going to be picking at the top of the draft. They just don't have the puck that much. So don't sweat the wins too much. Try and enjoy some of the young players developing and some of what you're seeing because truly I do think at the very least this organization is settled on an understanding that this season is

not going to be one where they're going to boost or supplement this team regardless of what happens and without that as you get into the second half of the season the logic of not being good enough is going to be overwhelming so that would be just my last message of hope

that I want to leave your audience with the last message of hope is don't worry they're not very good. They won't win many games and screw up their draft position. Correct. Great advice. I'm a positive person.

Yeah. Way to break it positively. Happy New Year's. We'll talk in the new year. There is Thomas Strans, covers the Canucks, for the athletic, and one half of Canucks talks,

and hey, Drans are going through that list of like all the things that have to go right for this hybrid ritual to work. I'm just thinking like, oh, that's it. That's what we've got to do.

Those 19 things have to go our way. That's great. And then we'll be good. Sweet. When you lay it out like that, it's so easy. Yeah. Why haven't they thought of this before? And then they break the laws of physics somehow.

And they create. Sliding in the minor. Oh, and PD has to bounce back for the next five years and be a perennial in one seat. And he's just like, and they just like find a center. Yeah. Find a number one center. They're just back into it. That's just find it.

That's it. That's all you got to do. You're doing this all the time, guys. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Thank you.