Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 1/28/25

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they argue about the merits of artificial intelligence, they talk yesterday's big Canucks win over the Blues with NHL analyst Ray Ferraro, plus they react to the bombshell news from Jim Rutherford in relation to the future of the Canucks core. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Whoa! Wait a minute. Huh? Hold up. What? Oh, okay. Did we just lose the f***ing Canucks? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da You're listening to Halford and Brough. There's a breakaway chance. Miller in, he scores. A stretch pass sends Miller in behind the Blues defense and he scores. The first period obviously kind of set us up for the game. So yeah, it was a nice win for us. You know, I heard rumor that they were, you know,

getting yelled at by their coaching staff. You're a loser! Are you feeling sorry for yourself? Well, you should be, because you are dirt! Good morning, Vancouver 601 on a Tuesday. Hank Hill in the intro. You are, it is Halpern, it is Brough, it is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintex Studios

in beautiful Fabu slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. A-u slopes in Vancouver Jason. Good morning. Good morning Hey, dog. Good morning. Good morning. Laddie. Good morning. I was Jim Montgomery. Hello. Hello And finally intern Ryan good morning as well Good morning Alfred and rough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers They have a friendly knowledgeable staff. They can help with anything you're looking for sales to customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour One of the program. Hour One

is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studio. Kintec, Footwear and Orthotics working together with you in step. Well, the Canucks are back. So back everybody. Two wins in a row. We got a lot to get into on the show today. Guest list begins at 6.30.

Greg Wyshinski from ESPN is going to join us on a busy night in the NHL tonight. Eight games around the league. We're going to talk to Wish about the fallout from the Miko Rantanen trade, his most recent playoff bubble watch. Vancouver Canucks moving up that bubble. And he spoke with Bill Daley about players skipping out of the Four Nations faceoff. Will they face punishment if they skip out on the tournament? You all have to find out at 6.30.

Greg Wyshynski will join us then. It's 7 o'clock. Ray Ferrara is going to join the program. Ray is in Vegas. Vegas baby, Vegas. He's in Vegas tonight Vegas, baby. Vegas. He's in Vegas tonight working the Stars Vegas game. So we'll get a nice pre-scout for the opponent

that the Canucks will play on Friday, of course. The Dallas Stars. Talk to Ray about that and whatever else you guys texted about prior to the show. 8 o'clock, Brendan Batchelor, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks is going to join us. He was on the call for last night's win. Big win for the Vancouver Canucks in St. Louis. We'll discuss that with Batch. We can for the Vancouver Canucks in St. Louis.

I will discuss that with Batch. We can also look ahead to the national game on Wednesday. A reminder, two, two contests we're running today on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Our final giveaway of a pair of tickets to see Nine Inch Nails. That concert is going to be in August. We're giving away the final pair of tickets today. 8 o'clock, caller number 9 at 8 o'clock this morning. The number 604-280-0650. That number again 604-280-0650. Also we are giving away a pair of tickets to the Clayton Public House for the big football game on Sunday, February the 9th., pair of tickets to the Clayton

and a $50 gift card, that's gonna go at 8.15. Caller number nine at 8.15 again, 604-280-0650. So two giveaways, three guests, one big game to get into, without further ado, Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I'm losing. We know how missing your life can be. happened.

What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. Connor Garland had two goals. JT Miller and Pew Suter had a goal a piece. As the Vancouver Canucks beat the St. Louis Blues 5-2 on Monday night, and most importantly, Jason,

with the victory, the Canucks have now won consecutive times, consecutive games, sorry, for the first time since December the 1st. Yeah. Two game winning streak. Two game winning streak. Two game winning streak. Bring your green hat. Solid start to the road trip coming off a win over Washington on Saturday. Two more stops to this trip in Nashville, Wednesday and Dallas Friday.

You heard Rick talk it in the intro there. The Canucks had a great first period. I got two goals from Connor Garland and outshot the Blues 12 to four, I believe. Garland's first goal was a tap in after Quinn Hughes somehow got a pass underneath a sliding Ryan Suter. I don't know if that was skill or luck or a

combination of both, but it was a great pass. And Garland was there down low as he usually is to tap in that great pass. Garland's second goal, also a bit of a tap in. This one on a power play after Brock Besser moved his feet to get to some open ice and take a pass from JT Miller's. Besser's slot shot is slot shot, high slot, but still slot shot was stopped, but Pedersen and Garland were on

top of Bennington and Garland was able to shovel it in. So Garland's first two goals came from about, I don't know, a combination of like two feet maybe. He was real close to the paint. Put the puck in. So Besser moved his feet to free himself up for a scoring chance on the power play. So did JT Miller in the second period when the blues shorthanded again, decided

to change and let Miller get behind them. Miller recognized the situation. He found the open ice, did some backwards crossovers and, uh, Quinn Hughes hit him with a perfect stretch pass that Quinn Hughes could probably do in his sleep. Uh, Miller went in and ripped it home. That was it for team Canada goalie Jordan Bennington, who was replaced by Joel Hofer. Plays for the Gophers.

Future Hall of Famer. No, he didn't. Hofer? Yeah, Hofer. Uh, the Blues did make it 3-1 on a power play of their own, but Puse Souter. Not the fastest skater, but looked pretty fast. He beat Hofer for a shorty with Nils Hoeglinder in the box for high sticking. So it was 4-1 heading into the third. And honestly,

even though it's the Canucks, it was also the Blues. So it felt comfortable. The Blues did not have a good night. And they did make it 4-2 on a goal by Colton Perreco, but Tyler Myers was able to add an empty netter, and it finished 5-2 for the Canucks, an impressive night for JT Miller, who answered the bell against Brandon Schenn, taking a pretty big punch in the process. Another two points for Quinn Hughes. Two goals for Garland who's been arguably, I think, their most

consistent forward all season. I thought Myers had a solid game in his return to the lineup, logged almost 23 minutes and finished plus three. Did get called for a tripping penalty in the second, but you know, A-Dog, nobody's perfect, buddy. Nobody's perfect. Speak for yourself. Another win for Kevin Lankton, who I know they were talking on the broadcast. And I wonder if some of those guys were talking to Rick Tauke at all day.

Mike just get all six of the Canucks remaining games before the four nations tourney and, uh, noteworthy that Elias Pedersen had a team high, seven shots. No goals, but A-Dog, nobody's perfect. One assist and hey, it's something to build on. It was a good performance and finally, finally for the first time in basically two months, you could say that the Vancouver Canucks strung together two good performances in a row. And that's an important thing for a team that struggled to find any sort of consistency

really since the calendar flipped to December, which is when the last time that they won those games. There was a lot to kind of unpack in individual moments yesterday. And I managed to clip some audio about this stuff. The first period, a very eventful first period. So the Canucks score early. And this was a bee in the bonnet of the St. Louis Blues

because I don't know if you've been paying attention to that team lately or not, but they've had a real issue with slow starts and lack of energy to start the game. So shortly after the Canucks score, JT Miller is challenged, as you mentioned, to a fight by Braden Shen. In the post game, the game was on Amazon, of course. Amazon's Andy Petrillo actually asked JT Miller about what happened between him and Shen and good on JT for

giving us a peek behind the scenes. Here's JT Miller and his scrap with Braden Shen. Eventful game for you two. You pick up a goal and you got some scars to prove it as well tonight in the fight with Braden Shen. Did you expect him to challenge you so early on? Honestly yeah. You know I heard rumor that they were you know getting yelled at by the coaching staff there. So I mean, he's a leader. He's a guy that is willing. And obviously, scoring first shift of the game,

I actually was kind of expecting that. But I have a lot of respect for him. Those two had a nice little chat in the penalty box. Miller went, I think, back to the room to pull himself together after he took that punch. And then he went back to the room to pull himself together after he took that punch. And then he went back to the penalty box. And I think I could lip read Braden Shen telling him, good job. There was some respect there. So Shen really, and again, I don't want to spend too much time focusing on the blues,

but they also interviewed Shen in between the first and second periods. And he was visibly, in between the first and second periods. And he was visibly, visibly frustrated at the lack of energy that his team had. I don't like this thing. And I noticed like a lot of listeners have done it this season as well. Where when the Canucks put a good effort forth, the first thing that people do is poke holes

in how bad the opponent was. I think you could make an argument that St. Louis is in a funk right now and they're not very good, but I don't think that should take away from what was a pretty good road game for the Vancouver Canucks last night. Now that road game could have gone

in a couple of different directions, especially in the first period, when despite outscoring and out shooting the Blues by a fairly healthy margin, there was a moment where a goal was disallowed. So in the period, it was a Dylan Holloway crashing the net sequence where Quinn Hughes

kind of clearly pushed him into Kevin Lankinen. But when the goal went in, referee TJ Luxmore emphatically waved the goal off. There was no discussion, there was no huddle with the referees, he immediately called it off. So goal on the ice, disallowed. And then I thought, I thought a very, very reckless challenge from Jim Montgomery. Yeah, you know, when I first saw that play though, I was like, my first instinct was, you know, like I thought hitting Jim Montgomery might be right.

You know what actually got it hitting Jim Montgomery might be right. You know what actually got it? My first look at it. My first gut reaction was you're going to need like a smoking gun or some dead set evidence to overturn a non goal on the ice. Like he waved it off right away. Yeah.

And so here's the thing. It's almost like you might be, I think Montgomery might've been right that there was goalie interference, but in the context of how he needed to get it overturned, I was like, there's no chance. And sure enough, after the game, and laddy get the audio ready here, Jim Montgomery actually fell on his own sword

and said, I made a mistake. Cause not only did the challenge fail when the Canucks went to the power play, they scored. And the Blues have a terrible penalty kill. I wonder if that should have been taken into the equation. Here's Jim Montgomery post game on the disallowed goal on the Dylan Holloway goalie interference. I made the mistake of challenging it.

The ref's explanation to me was that Holloway was going to skate into the crease no matter what, whether he was pushed or not. I felt Holloway was trying to stop and got pushed once and the second time pushed him into the crease no matter what, whether he was pushed or not. I felt Holloway was trying to stop and got pushed once and the second time pushed him into the goalie. But, you know, I made a mistake of challenging it and we got overruled on that.

I thought it was dead wrong. I know when we challenge the league it needs to be dead wrong. I thought it was. And, you know, per the league's decision it was not and the ref explained it that way to the way. I just explained it to you a Couple of the takeaways from last night Tyler Myers returns from a three-game suspension One of the best players on the ice last night And you mentioned the penalty of course and can't be perfect all the time, but he was actually a dog

Actually named the third star in the building. I wasn't criticizing Tyler Myers. You're always criticizing someone. Well, I wasn't criticizing him. I was criticizing the core last night. And then JT Miller scored, and I was like, all right, good. Miller, Myers was named the third star in the building. You had a good game. Here's the thing. In a vacuum, this game was great. The Connaughts did a nice job. They got a win against a team that's chasing them

in the standings. The Amazon broadcast had those standings and how important this game was. And Rick Tauket talked about it being a four point game. They're going to need to carry this momentum and this run of good play over. We're kind of half tongue in cheek joking that we're so back and it's a winning streak.

The fact that they haven't strung together consecutive wins in nearly two months is more problematic than it is a sigh of relief right now. I do wonder, and I'll go back to the other guy that probably needs to get a little bit more credit for this abbreviated two game winning streak, but how well the team has played and it's Lankanen. Oh yeah. And I know, I know that Jody Shelley on the broadcast last night and you were joking about this said, you know, he might be getting a run of games coming up here. And everyone was like, where'd you get that from, Jody? Where did that come from?

Seems like a lot of praise for JT Miller in the game and not much for Elias Pedersen. Who are you talking to all day? Do we want to point out that also a season high, seven shots on goal for Elias Pedersen, despite his season low ice time, less than 15 minutes. I was actually gonna throw that out to the listeners. What's with that?

Is that a good game for Pedersen or he only played 14-24 and didn't score on any of his shots? Like how do we feel about this? Like season low in ice time. How do we feel about it? Team high in shots. I don't know. Mixed. I mean, it's never great when your highest paid Season low in ice time. How do we feel about it? Team high in shots, I don't know, mixed.

I mean, it's never great when your highest paid forward is logging the ice time of a third line center. Yeah. That's not great, however. Selling shots, baby. If you're talking about. However, none of them went in. Yeah, right, but efficiency.

Getting that many shots in that limited ice time, that's really good. None of them went in, and like you said, that's not that great. The shots came with a free froger. That's good. The froger was cursed. That's bad. Here's why I think it's good. He's shooting the puck. I think at the end of the day, that's gotta be the only takeaway.

Yeah. Then why the ice time so low? What was the reason for that? Well, he is skating with Hoaglander and Carlson. So he might just temporarily... Guilty by association. He might just temporarily deploy as a 3C. I mean, he was the 3C last night. Yeah.

Yeah. Pugh Suter and JT Miller were the top two centers. Pugh Suter played 1930, JT Miller. Pugh Suter was the top center last night. Cause JT Miller played 1653. Now he did have a fight, but, uh, you know, shooters not playing with Hoaglander and Carlson, right?

Like that, those are third line wingers, Hoaglander and Carlson, you know, that's bottom six. And I don't know, maybe that's the way the coach sees Elias Pedersen right now. Now he does get, um, first unit power play. So that's a little bit different. And he did have an assist on the power play goal. Went to the net, best net front presence in the NHL right now.

Elias Pedersen got an assist on Connor Garland's goal. But yeah, I guess, I guess we're still in the, in the, I don't know. Some people are going to rip them. Some people are going to support them. Um, you know, I, I, I, I've been ripping them, but I do think seven shots on goal says something good about his performance last night. Crazy that we're almost in February and this is, you know, took them this long to get to this total

in terms of shots on net. And again, I, I, I really, really hope that the conversation that, I mean, cause they were talking about how him and Tocket were working on practice Sunday after the game on Saturday and you know, in the post game remarks, including his answer to your question, but a bunch of other ones, if they're going to talk

about being less deferential and taking charge, that to me is a direct look at Pedersen and being like, Hey, we don't need you to constantly look off shots and constantly play the puck to your wingers. Deferred, deferred. You don't want to be deferred. You don't need to be deferential as much as you are. You can shoot the puck with more regularity. And I mean, look at last night, that all adds up to the equation that he, you know, seven shots on net and a pretty emphatic victory for the Canucks. Yeah, go ahead.

Well, I just want to read some text because it's mixed as usual. Here's a text. I think it's Petey showing progress. If he keeps doing that, points will come. Meanwhile, Nate in Richmond takes in, there's got to be higher expectations for Petey guys. Remember that great dump in during the second period?

That was a good dump in. You know, I've said all along, I don't want to lower the bar for Pedersen. I think I've lowered the bar. It's been lowered. It's been lowered. Yeah, it has. And that's going to be the great debate until we see production that's sort of like on par with the money that he makes. I mean,

I don't know how else to describe it at this point. Some guys were tripping me when I was like complaining about the core prior to Miller's goal. And guy was like but Petey screened that guy and I'm like yeah he stood in front of the net. That's great. I don't want to... Luke Texin the bar is frozen to the damn ice. That's how low it is. Yeah again I tripped over it. Go look around at other players that are making that amount of money. If you want to drop the bar and say, hey, for the amount of minutes that he's playing

and what he gave you last night, it's a good performance. That's fine, you can make that argument. But the amount of cap that that takes up doesn't fit with the remainder of the National Hockey League and there's no arguing that, there's none. Go look at the other, it's rarefied air when you make that much money. And I don't know what to tell everyone about that.

It's, if it's fair or unfair in your world, I don't think that matters. Why are you so hard on him? I don't think that matters. They're going to need to have more at some point. He's been doing some great screens. He had a couple of good defensive plays that were spot shadowed by the Amazon crew last night.

Tidy guy stick up at the blue line. Look at that stick tie up. Good positioning. He's going to win the selkie and you're going to feel so foolish. He is not going to win the selkie. Probably not going to win a selkie. Not with that attitude. No. Anyway, back to Lankton. Were you joking in the notes where you said that he might get six games in a row going into the Four Nations faceoff?

That's what Jody Shelley was saying. Yeah, I think he said he was going to get the run for the rest of this road trip. No, he said until the break. He said until the break. Until the break. Until the break. It's six games. Six games, no back to backs.

Look at what Joey DeCord's doing for Seattle. He plays every game now. Gruber hasn't played in, I don't know, years it seems like down there. I think that this is- This is just in Joey DeCord's, down there. I think that this is- This is just in Joey DeCourts legs have exploded. Yeah. I think that this is- He's still gonna play over Grubauer.

If you wanna start looking at narratives over the next week or so, I think this is the one to follow the closest, because it's a real pickle that the Canucks are in with their goaltending right now. I'm still gonna follow the trade stuff closer. Yeah, it's fine, but I mean, this might lead to that. that the Canucks are in with their goaltending right now. I'm still gonna follow the trade stuff closer. Yeah, it's fine, but I mean, this might lead to that.

I don't know if they're in a position to not, when it comes to goaltending, I don't know if they're in a position to think anything other than, what guy is gonna get us two points tonight? End of thought, end of sentence, end of conversation. I think that they are in that mode right now because they are still very much

in the thick of the playoff chase. As far as I understand it, they would like to be in the post season. And I think that if this season, and you know, you want to, I threw out the word salvageable yesterday. That to me is look at what's coming up with two more games on the road,

and then I think three or four at home before the break, there's points on the board, there's points on the table, and your sole like impetus is what goalie gives us the best chance to get two points out of each of these games. Because you're right, there's not a lot of back to backs and everything. Now, if you make the decision that in the majority of those, the goalie that's going to get you the two points is Lankanen, I think you have a real, real, real big looming dark cloud on the horizon, which his name is Thatcher Demko, because one, he's obviously going to want to play. Two,

I don't remember a time where he's been deployed as a little used backup, which is what he would be if he's, let's say over the next six games, Lankton goes five of six, four of six, which I don't think is out of the rubble. What if he goes six of six? Well, what if he goes six of six? I feel more confident in Lankton than

Demko right now. No kidding. Yeah, thanks Adog. Wow. Man, you are sharp this morning. I'm just saying. So give them all six. I ran the numbers through yesterday.

Give them all six. I ran the numbers through yesterday. So we talked about that January 14th game when they lost 6-1 in Winnipeg, right? And that was the one where Lankton got the shutout in Toronto and they went right back to Lankton in the next game, even though that Winnipeg game was against the most highly touted and bonafide best,

not just American goalie, but goalie in the NHL and Connor Hallebuyck. And we all thought, man, that sure seems like a game that Demko probably would have wanted a chance to go up against Hallebuyck head to head in that game. They went with Lankton and Lankton got skunked. What happened after that? Three straight games for Demko. Four straight games. happened after that? Three straight games for Demko. Four straight games. Four straight games. Four straight games for Demko.

Now to be fair, Lankanen was sick. Yep. But still. During some of that. Four straight games for Demko. Yeah, no, I know. But like, I don't know if that would have happened. Okay, take this.

If Lankanen. Sure, but take that part of it out of it. He got the four game run. Mm-hmm. You know, circumstances are otherwise, you got those games. So that's a proving ground for you because your season's been erratic so far. In those four games, Demko goes one and three

and has an 833 save percentage. The numbers do not bear out very well. And then to make it worse for Demko, Lankton comes back in, has a great game against Washington on Saturday, 32 saves and a 2-1 win. It was rock solid last night. Ladi, I have a question for you.

Is the only way for Demko to find his game to get games or can there be more work done while he's not playing that's going to help him improve a little bit? I think he needs regular reps to stay up and at the NHL level. I think that's definitely what you're talking about is crucial, but I think he needs regular reps to stay up and at the NHL level. I think that's, it's definitely what you're talking about is crucial, but I think with his injury situation too, I think there is some work

to be done in practice. So I think there's credence to be laid to both approaches. There's a remark he made after I think the Buffalo game, the one where they blew the third period lead and he was a little upset that he didn't come up with one of those saves. And he said, I feel like I've lost touch and he was a little upset that he didn't come up with one of those saves.

And he said, I feel like I've lost touch with the game a little bit. And he doesn't mean like, what is hockey anymore? It means like. Maybe he was existential. Yeah, yeah. It was very profound. I was like, I just don't recognize this game. It's just his touch with the game.

And it's just the feel of the game. So I don't know how that can be replicated in practices. Well, a lot of it, when the injury happened, right, people were discussing whether or not he'd have to adjust his game, basically his new future with this injury that he has to deal with. This might be part of it. This might be him just adjusting his game and

getting used to playing in the world with a broken popliteus. Well, how about adjusting the mentals of you're not the starter right now? That too, he's a very competitive guy. To me, that's the bigger thing, like getting his game on track or not getting his game on track,

it's almost secondary because they don't have that luxury right now. But he would agree he hasn't been good enough. Sure, but will he agree that he's not like, I'm okay with not playing? No. Right, he's not going to be. He's never been that guy. No.

I don't think he's wired that way at all. I think he thinks that that's his net and that Kevin Langdon is in it. Ben, that's not to try and create something that's not there. That's any top flight elite level goalie, right? That's my net. The guy was nominated for a Vezna last year.

He considers himself and rightly so one of the best goalies in the NHL. And you want that level of competition. It's a friendly competition, but you want that level of competition. So, I mean, but to me, the thing that compounds all of this is like, if Lankton went in and was average or was poor,

then you'd be like, okay, there's nothing to choose from here. Put Demko back in. But the moment that Demko comes off that tough four-game stretch, and now Lankton has got back to back with good performances, you kind of put it on the coaching staff. You're like, how do you not play him? Because you need the points, you need the wins. If the coaches want to talk about consistency from the players, I think the players could

turn around and say, hey, from a coaching staff from decisions, you guys need to hold up your end of the bargain with consistency. If getting wins is icing the best lineup, then Lankton has got to be the guy right now. Demko would be piping up. I disagree with the guys. Right. However, like offer an alternative. Anyway. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Pray for our, joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. So here's my question and I knew that was going to be your answer. Why can't the Canucks seem to get to the inside and score goals or even generate chances consistently to the point that people are arguing?

Is it the players or is it the coach's fault here? Okay. Okay. This, I didn't know you were going to ask me this. I'm glad you asked me this. There was no such thing as a chance to score arguing, is it the players or is it the coach's fault here? Okay, okay. This, uh, I didn't know you were going to ask me this. I'm glad you asked me this.

There was no system that I have ever heard of that says stay on the boards and never go to the front of the net. I've never heard of it. It's absurd. If people think that the coaching staff is telling the players, when you have the puck five feet from the net, pass it 60 feet from the net.

Like, what are we talking about here? Like this is where it, honestly, it drives me up the walls. People that think they know, that don't. That don't. And I'm not in those meetings either. Like I'm watching this thing about the Kansas City Chiefs and the Bills the other day, and the last play that Josh Allen took a long pass down

on fourth down, and why didn't he just pivot his hips? Look, here's a still photo. Why didn't he pivot his hips and hit Shakir out on the flat on the left? Because there's two guys and the third coming that all weigh 220 pounds that are coming super fast and you have a second to make that decision and things get eliminated from your thought process like you can't even believe how fast it happens so the reason guys don't get into the middle I

think they get caught watching. They stop moving their feet because they're looking for the next play. You see when a player, you can never touch confidence, right? You can never touch it, but you can see it. When you see a guy that's confident, he comes around the back of the net and he just knows where he's going with it. When you see a guy come around the back of the net and his feet separate and now he's looking and searching, nothing's going to happen.

Most times nothing's going to happen. So I think the Canucks have gotten into a place where they've been timid offensively. They don't want to turn the puck over. They don't want to chase the puck back into their zone. So the safe play is always to go back because if you look at the way teams defend, the place that's open is the upper part of the ice. Right?

Like top of the circles out. So that's always open, but it takes confidence. It takes courage. It takes aggression. And I don't mean courage like, oh, I gotta fight like physically fight, courage to make a play. Because you don't wanna be the guy turning it over.

And so if you lack that courage, you lack that initiative to make the play. And one, like I'll bring up Garland again, he is never at a lack of confidence. Right, never. Like I'll bring up Garland again. He is never at a lack of confidence. Right? Never. If he sees a space or a sliver of light, he's going to dive into it. And if you say, why don't other guys do that?

It's because everybody's built different. It's what we'll look around the league. Why do some guys get to the front of the net? Some guys don't. Why do some guys, um, you know, protect the puck and others just get rid of it? It's all in the makeup of the player and not everybody's the same. Okay, well that actually ties in nicely to what I wanted to ask you because some people

have said maybe it's a personnel or roster makeup thing and I guess the immediate pushback would be like any personnel can do these things. Sure, some players might be physically built better to do the things, but it sounds like you're suggesting it's more of a, I hate throwing around mindset because it's kind of a nebulous term, but it's more about like the will and want to do it as opposed to like the physical makeup necessary to do it. Anybody can do it.

Some people just, like it's not in them to create a play. Like, um, Eddie Bluger is not going to try the same play as JT Miller is, or Elias Pedersen. Like, he's just not even going to try it because most players know what they are. And he would be thinking, I can't turn this puck over because I'm never going to play. Like my job is to prevent goals. If I score, that's great. My job is to prevent goals. And so every player has to view that and view the creation of often in their own space, in their own lane. Right? So along with that, if you get burned a couple times, like trying to make a play, now you're going to try it less. So now that you try it less, your mindset, you know,

to a soccer term, you get back on your heels. You're right. You play on your back foot. You don't play on your front foot. It's the simplest thing and the hardest thing at the same time is like, just be aggressive, make a mistake of aggression, not as a mistake of being passive. Yet anybody that's played at this level knows that you can get your courage knocked out of you in a hurry to make a play. When the puck's in your net and you're the guy on the, you're the guy responsible, that pulls the stuffing out of you in a hurry. When you would lose confidence with your game, I'm sure it happened from time to time.

Oh often. Um, did you, did your feet stop moving? Did you stop skating to spots with the puck? And did you start looking to just give it to someone else and maybe they'll do something good with it? Well, the crazy part is when, like when I would lose confidence, the puck was not my friend. Like it seemed every time I had it, the decision I made with it would be the wrong

one, try a pass that's not there, uh, try to force a play, um, to create a chance when it's really not there, the longer you go without scoring anybody, like it doesn't even matter if you're a scorer or not, but like, do you, I'll use Holglander for an example. Do you think he's got any confidence? No. He's got one goal in 40 games or whatever it is. So every time he touches the puck, you know,

he's thinking, I got to make the right play. I got to make the right play. If you're trying to be perfect, you've got no chance, like the two minute or four minute penalty he took last night, that could only happen to him right now. Yeah. Right.

Like, you know, like when I saw there was him, I'm like, well, of course it's him. He's trying so hard. If he, if you could get it in your head, guys, to try less, he'd be way better off. But how do you try less? Well, we could show off. Yeah yeah I mean you know you hear all the time these guys just need to relax and make a play

or this guy needs to relax and he'll hit better or whatever it is. Oh my god that's impossible. Like you can't even, you can try and I'm sure the guys were more relaxed last year offensively than they were this year. Right? You've got that whole list of guys, it's no goals in eight, one goal in nine and half of them scored last night and gee, and you win. Right?

Like the only way you get confidence is to make a few plays, to see a positive result, to see yourself, see your own video and go, oh yeah, I can still do it. Like it is a professional season, is a mind game with yourself, like you can probably guess, but oh my God, it can be torturous to try and beat yourself up when you're in the pit. So what is Rick Taukett's responsibility in all this? I mean, he's still the coach. He's still the guy that's, you know, part of his job is motivation and part of his job is to get

guys to buy in. You know, I don't think we're absolving him of any responsibility here when we say like, you know, there's no system that says, keep it to the outside and shoot from the point. Clearly has to be part of the solution. And if he's not part of the solution, then he's part of the problem.

So what does he do here? You keep reiterating, you keep reiterating you keep showing you keep trying to build when the puck's here it's got to go here we've got to find a way to drive ourselves into the middle of the ice and so he can only repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it. And eventually somebody's gonna make a play in that group of guys that hasn't scored and it'll work. And that guy now takes one step towards being confident.

The other thing that confidence does, we talked about moving your feet or lack of confidence rather, you always think you're open because you've moved into ice nobody cares about. Like you are open, but now if you really look at it, there's two guys between you and the passer. The guy without the puck is almost the most important guy in the zone. Like he's the guy that creates the space, not the guy with the puck.

Let's take Quinn out of the equation. He's just different than 99% of the players. There's probably 10 players in the league, and I don't even think there's 10, that can do what they do. McKinnon, David Hughes, McCarr. Like you're talking about the guys that just separate the ice all by themselves. Yeah.

It's incredible what he does, what he can create. I said on the game on Saturday, I go, sometimes a city just gets lucky to watch a player with greatness and like both the goals he scored the other night against Washington. I go, sometimes a city just gets lucky to watch a player with greatness. That, and like both the goals he scored the other night against Washington. I'm like, who, who does that? It's like he's like, well, he's just different than everybody else. So Brett Hull taught me this when I'd never thought of it. We were, um, we were doing TV together.

Holly did it for one year. He could have been a star if he wanted to do it. He just didn't want thought of it. We were doing TV together, Hulley did it for one year, he could have been a star if he wanted to do it, he just didn't want to do it. But we're watching the game and he goes, you know, in that voice of his, and he goes, why is this guy standing over here? Useless. And you look and you're like, oh yeah,

the guy's got a stick in the air like he wants to shoot one time. You couldn't get a puck through the traffic to him with a bazooka. And it's, but the guy in that moment thought he was open. I see, I see that a lot with the Knopf guys. Yeah. Like that are struggling, like they think they're in the right place, but

really they've got to move to the other side of the defender and you don't just get to move there because the guy's not going to let you get there. Like it's hard, really hard. But as you know, talks always said, you got to embrace the hard. Well, it's a simple phrase, but it's really kind of true. Did you watch the Canucks game last night, right? Did you have?

Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. So did you notice on JT Miller's breakaway goal, he had to move his feet to get to the open ice. And frankly, it was an easy pass for Quinn Hughes to make for a player of Quinn's caliber. Like it was like a quarterback hitting a

wide open receiver. But if Miller does not pivot and move his feet into the open ice where the blues were. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. It doesn't matter if Quinn can make the pass. Doesn't matter because there's nobody there. There was a shift right after Garland got his second goal.

He could have had his third one like three times on the same shift. If people want to take a look at what moving your feet is, he intercepted a pass, he took a turnover, he went to open ice and created it. Like he did it three times. I'm like, oh my God, that's one of the best shifts with no result that you'll ever get. And there was so many, so many examples last night.

The Suder Schubert hand-to-gull, somebody came off the ice and changed, killing the penalty. So many examples last night, the Souter short-handed roll. Somebody came off the ice and changed killing the penalty. And that's why Souter was up in the area. He was, he came onto the ice and he button hooked around as soon as Myers flipped the puck off, all the way stick. But that whole sequence is him moving his feet. He came off the bench, he came back into the zone, he turned and came all the way back up and now we had to break away. But if he doesn't skate, he doesn't skate back into the play, there's no play.

I'm telling you guys, it seems so easy. And yet there are times you look at yourself on video and you go, what the hell am I doing? I'm just standing there. You think you're doing it. You really do. And then you look at it and you go, oh my God, what am I doing? It's like looking at your golf swing on video. Oh, that's one of the most horrific things of all.

You think you've got a nice, flowy backswing, and it looks like you're chopping vegetables. Like this thing sucks. Gary Mason, Globe and Mail, had a interview with Canucks president of hockey ops, Jim Rutherford. If you're wondering what the crux of the interview was, it's about the rift between JT Miller and Elias Pedersen. That's the big part of it. Big, big part of it. Jim Rutherford did

not hold back and was incredibly candid in discussing the relationship or lack thereof between his two star centers. I am just going to read the quotes for you, the listening audience are waiting with beta breath right now someone texted in they said I'm about to go under a tunnel Please don't read the quotes until I get out of it people like it's behind a paywall Don't worry. We got around it This is Jim Rutherford called. I have a subscription you paid He paid to get past the wall. I didn't pay. My dad paid. This is Jim Rutherford speaking on the tricky situation between Top Center's JT Miller and Elias Pedersen.

I felt like for a long time that there was a solution here because everybody had worked on it, including the parties involved. But it only gets resolved for a short period of time and then it festers again. And so it certainly appears like there's not a good solution that would keep this group together. We've had those conversations and I think the parties understand and I think they've tried. together. We've had those conversations and I think the parties understand and I think they've tried. As you know sometimes emotions get deep and as much as people try sometimes you can't get over it. It certainly appears that's what's going on here. We're talking about two of our top players. Certainly our two best forwards. It can be really tough on a franchise, not only present, but into the future. When you're

planning on peaking this team into a contending team, and then you find out that's not going to happen. Or at least it's not going to happen with the group we have now. Then you have to put together a new plan. This is, this is, uh, that is wild. This is him saying like, it is not gonna happen with this core. Brutal. Jim, is it gonna happen with this core? No, no, no, no.

That is so, oh, that is honestly, it's almost heartbreaking. Well, at least there's clarity. Yeah. He goes on to say, look, when you don't have chemistry, it's hard to be that consistent team because there's too much going on in the room for everybody to concentrate on what they're supposed to do. And then Gary Mason, again, the author of this article who did the interview with Jim Rutherford for the Globe and Mail asked Rutherford do you

mean the Miller-Peterson drama and he said yep yep well they have it the damn media had it again stupid reporters stoking the flame look this is this is this is crazy man it's actually not Look, this is... This is... Well, we're past the point. This is crazy, man. Well, no, it's actually not crazy. Well, this is what we all thought. Yeah, it's not crazy. But he's just putting it out there. It's like...

To see it in writing is crazy. There's no solution to this. It's not crazy. It's actually probably the right development. It's what everyone assumed, but just seeing it in writing like that is insane. So listen, I think that they're obviously, obviously way past the point of sending veiled messages

or blatant messages or warnings, all that's gone. Alvin tried it. That was on December 31st. There was a month ago. But they obviously, and put it this way, for Alvin to actually get to the point where he said something interesting to a reporter in the media tells you how frustrated they must've been as an organization, right?

Think about how long the wound had to be festering to that point to get to that point. So now it's just kind of like, you know, those cathartic moments where you're like, okay, this is where we are. This is where we're at. Austin and Langley texts in, is this the white flag before the tear down? Yes. Unless something crazy happens.

Yes. You know, I've heard people come on this program or write about it or come on the station and say, you know, like, I don't know if I buy this rift between Miller and Pedersen because they've had so much success together at times. They both had incredible seasons to the point they get to these massive contracts and they played on the same line together at times. I think you got the answer when he says, sometimes we think we have this under control and then it festers again.

Yeah. It comes up like they just, they, they cannot get over it. It's like, uh, what do they call it? Um, when you get divorced and it's like irreconcilable differences, is that the phrase? Right? Like it's like, yeah, it's like, it's like irreconcilable differences. Is that the phrase? Right, like it's like. Not amicable.

Yeah, it's like, it's just, we tried, irreconcilable differences is kind of what I'm hearing. And. There's a 1984 film called In Reconcilable Differences. In Reconcilable. Yep. Yeah.

This is more of a comedy though. 1984 film. Anyway. Yeah, this. This is more of a comedy though. 1984 film already. Anyway. Yeah, this isn't so much of a comedy. Divorce was so hot in the 80s, so hot. And now we're, I mean, you know, Rutherford, later on in the article, he's like, yeah, these are two best forwards and you know, if we're going to trade one of these guys or

both of these guys, hopefully we'll get a centre back in return, but it's not going to be to the caliber of center that these guys are. Yeah, I think. This is two guys that have, their fight has, okay, their fight has torn this team apart. Yes. And I, and I don't. Yes. And I don't. Yes.

So I thought at times that, well, maybe this is a bit of a red herring. Maybe they've each got something going on in their own lives. They also don't get along, but whatever. Maybe it's a bit of a red herring. But Jim Rutherford is saying right now, this is not a red herring.

Um, these guys cannot coexist on the same team. And the reason you're seeing the inconsistency from the team is because there's so much going on behind the scenes, specifically regarding these two. And we're going to have to move one, if not both of them out. And I think with this coming out, it is going to be a lot harder for one of them to stay because people are going to be angry that they could not figure this out. Now for those people texting in saying that, uh, Jim Rutherford

is cratering the trade value of any of these guys, because who would want to take a guy on? That might be the case for certain teams, but I also do think it's that it's a bit of a, Hey, as long as the other guy isn't part of this team, this guy will be fine for both of them. So someone just. They are, they are so different. These guys, they're, They're just unbelievably different people. So someone just texted in Rutherford should have made those comments. What value do the players have when

other teams know we're desperate. Buddy everyone knows everyone knows everyone knows this. He just put it this way. This is just one of those I use the word cathartic. This is just one of those cathartic moments where instead of pretending or trying to gloss over, slap a coat of paint on it to make it look okay, you just be like, oh, you know what? Fine. It's got to end. That's what it is.

It's an acknowledgement of what everyone had already acknowledged anyway. Can you imagine what the crowd reaction is going to be at a Rogers arena to these guys? No, I don't know. I mean, let's hear from the listeners. Do you take sides right away? Like in a real divorce, you go with dad,

stick with mom. What do you do? I don't know. What do you do? Do you try and find who's the right and the wrong? Do you just look at both of them and be like, it's embarrassing that you two couldn't figure this out? Or do you go the other way?

You're like, hey, we've all been paired together with someone that just was incongruent. Sometimes you genuinely can't blame one person or the other when it's a failed dynamic. I still feel like we're going to get texts in. It was like, I just feel like if they had Branstrom in the lineup. You know, he really brought the room together. It's like a rug. Too many point shots.

Well, we had one text that said, what about last year? Were they not angry at each other last year? Well, they were winning. That was the quote. Hold on, I got the quote. Read the quote again. I'll find it again.

Read the quote again. I felt for a long, this is Jim Rutherford speaking. I won't do the Jim Rutherford voice. I tried it at the break, didn't work. I felt for a long time that there was a solution here because everybody had worked on it, including the parties involved. But it only gets resolved for a short period of time and then it festers again. And so it certainly appears like there's not a good solution that would keep this group together. So Rutherford has come in and he's like, I've given it a shot. The previous regime gave it a shot. Travis Green gave it a shot. Bruce Boudreaux gave it a shot. Rick Tauke gave it a shot. Lots

of shots given, right? Yeah. They brought in a marriage counselor once. Then they then they extended these guys? That was the next step. It was the electroshock thing like from the Simpsons where they're allowed to shock each other if they don't agree. Dr. Marvin Monroe. Yeah, Marvin Monroe was brought in and it caused Roger's Arena Power to go out. Petey was like, look at the way this guy loads the dishwasher. When am I supposed to live with this? There's absolutely no rhyme or reason to the way this guy loads the dishwasher. We cannot coexist like this.

This is a combination of depressing and ridiculous. Yes. That this is a problem that has- And embarrassing. Destroyed this core and especially after last season and how amazing it was, regardless of the ending that you're just like, Oh, right. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. This core might have figured it out. Maybe we're growing Maybe we're gonna be a cup contender and now comes crashing down. Okay It is befitting in the notes that alongside of everything else we were gonna cover today

Bruff did put the Jimmy Butler situation in Miami and I don't like doing apples to oranges in this instance because they're different but when you're talking about ridiculously paid, highly talented and big yo professional athletes and I think all those are on the table here. You've got to understand how stubborn and how deeply guys can dig their heels in. So you know the Jimmy Butler story right now, right? He is now in the midst of his third team issued suspension from the Miami Heat.

Third, this time it was for walking out of a practice on Monday. Butler's made it really clear. I'm not playing for the Miami Heat anymore. And the Miami Heat are like, well, we're paying you, you're under contract. You can't just walk away until we trade you. But both parties are so dug in,

and especially Jimmy Butler, that it's a reconcilable differences. They're not going to reconcile the situation. They're not going to figure it out. There's not going to be a solution. It ends with a breakup and it's because butlers I mean this is part of the playbook and everything but it's an example of someone who's got a healthy ego and is immensely talented and makes a lot of money saying, I'm calling the shots. It exists in the world of professional sports.

It's a shame that it's happening here. It really is. I think they have to trade them both. I mean, I really do. So you're suggesting that like, if you, let's use the divorce analogy, that it's going to be too hard for one to stick around. Right?

Well, I don't think the divorce analogy is right, but I just- Well, you split up and it's like, let's say- Well, let me talk you through it. Okay. Okay. You trade Miller, say. What's the crowd reaction to Petey?

Right. One stays behind and has to deal with the house and the family, the other one gets to go. Yeah, I get it. And I also think like, if you trade one of them and the other player, okay, if you trade one of them and the other player doesn't perform, obviously that's a problem, right? Okay.

If you trade one of them and the other player doesn't perform, obviously that's a problem. Right. Okay. If you trade one of them and the other player does perform, I also think that's a problem, like you couldn't get over it. You couldn't get over it. That, that, that dynamic definitely exists. So what were you doing? That dynamic definitely exists. Not playing hard because you were sad. That dynamic definitely exists.

Cause you were angry or you were like, this is the NHL, this is pro sports. You don't think the other, the other team are going to bring that up on the ice in a big playoff game if this team ever gets to a big, big playoff game again? I, these are, are these the guys that, this is such an overused cliche, but you want to go to battle with these guys?

They can't even get along with their own teammates. Seems crazy to me. And frankly, this is an organizational failure. This is such an overused cliche, but you want to go to battle with these guys? They can't even get along with their own teammates? It seems crazy to me. And frankly, this is an organizational failure. Credit to Jim Rutherford for coming out and saying this is, you know, being honest with the quotes, but how the hell could you let it get to this point? My one thing with Pedersen over and over, I heard red flags, red flags, red flags, and the same thing for JT Miller as well, right?

Different type of things. But, and then, so I always came back to, then why did you give them the big contract? So I guess it was at the time last year, they'd already locked up JT, but I guess it was at the time they felt, all right, well, those issues have been solved. But I always felt like Petey's game went into the tank when they started leaning on him to resign. And maybe that was Petey being basically forced to decide whether to be traded to Carolina or resign in Vancouver for a very big number, by the way, that the agents were probably pushing him for to say like, hey, sign this contract while it's on the table, do this right now. So they're probably, but maybe he was thinking like, man, I don't really want to be here if JT is still here.

And I don't think it was a coincidence that we heard Petey say, I want to be in Vancouver via Elliot Friedman. After it was pretty well established that they were going to trade JT. I think we broke the in basket. The texts are coming in at a rapid pace and understandably so. This is one of the most, we all knew something was going on here, but for it to be laid out like that and essentially like they admitted it, this is one of the turning points in Canucks history.

If there was a Canucks book being written, if you guys had part two of your book, this would be one of them. Someone just, J and OK Falls texted in and said, when Bruff just said, I think they need to trade them both, both of you look like someone just died. If we have the video, I actually like to go back and look at it. There is a cold slap of reality on occasion where you realize that everything's sort of setting in and look, we've talked about this situation ad nauseam for the last three months. So nothing should really come as a surprise. I think it's just more that it's all finally out there and it's just on the table and all the cards have been laid

and the souls have been bared and everyone is like, okay, this is the situation. And then you can go about, well, how do we fix it? And I guess the answer is, do I have a hard time saying it still like because I can't I don't know a world where you trade your top two centers you know I've seen trading one guy out because he's a problem ever seen trading both guys out because it's like they can't stick around but I mean overwhelmingly right now overwhelmingly people are like I don't want to see either of these guys, right?

Is this fair? What do you have with dogs? What do you think? I love the power of self-deception in a certain amount of people out there. I'll get through it. Here's a text. I think you guys are polarizing everything and putting such a small issue under the microscope. Keep Pedersen and move forward.

I'm not even gonna read who sent that in. No, do it. But- You need to own that. Congratulations on being so invested in the theory that the media creates all this drama, that you could hear those quotes from the president of the Vancouver Canucks and think that we are making a big deal out of a small issue.

Halford and Brough, mountains out of molehills all the time. That is one, whatever, whatever, it's one texture. No, but like it's just such an investment. You wouldn't even read his name or her name. I Feel like it's showing. I'm speechless. I'm speechless about about how Like the way it was laid out. Yeah in this article by Jim Rutherford. We all know as a very honest guy But so oh my god, he admitted you just heard him say like I'm out of answers here.

Yeah. About, and this is two members of the leadership group. They're two best forwards. They're, they're top two centers. Can't get along. So one of them has to be traded or maybe, you know, our conclusion is maybe both of them have to be traded and Brock Besser is probably not going to be back now. Thatcher Demko, I could see him being traded. And then, you know, there are some comments

from Jim Rutherford about Quinn Hughes' role in all this and he basically says, wow, you know, if Quinn doesn't stay, then we really have to start all over again. I know. Cause we're talking. I don't want to start all over again. I know. I don't want to think about that. We are talking. There's so much emotional bandwidth.

Hughes has to stay. He can't go. He can't leave. We are talking about, like they need to tear this down in my opinion, and they need to do it really quickly because the sooner you get started, the quicker you can show Quinn Hughes that there's promise here for the future. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.