Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 12/9/24

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

Jason and guest host Jamie Dodd look back at a busy weekend in sports, the boys chat the Canucks leadership group and how impactful Quinn Hughes has been, plus they talk the latest 'Nucks news with Canucks Central host Satiar Shah. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. In spite of the fact that they tied it in the third period, they fall on home ice 4-2 to Tampa Bay. Charbonnet, left side, has a first down, and it's up! He's down to the 30, the 20, 15, 10, 5! Touchdown, Seahawks! In front, Shane Wright scores!

I've got it on my Instagram page, I think it's going to go three inches thick. Good morning, Vancouver. Happy Monday, everybody. Welcome to Halford & Brough here on Sportsnet 650. Still not the full compliment of Halford & Brough, but we got one of them back. Jason Brough, back in studio. I'm Jamie Dodd, of course. Brough, what's going on? Good morning. How are you doing, buddy? Nice to be working with you again. Yeah, it's very nice. What was that mooch thing about? Was that from Friday?

I don't know. You described something as three inches thick. It was a food question. It's captured for posterity. Yeah, perfect. I don't have no idea. I don't know what you guys were thinking. Sounds like a mooch hit, all right. Sounds like a mooch hit.

How are the dogs doing this morning? Oh, God. Doing well. Yeah. You asked me a question that was different from Alfred's. Oh, okay. Sorry. If you don't. Hey, dog.

Good morning. Good morning. Laddie, good morning. Hello, hello. All right. There you go. That feels way better. I've learned that as well.

If you change the script at all, they get very uncomfortable. If you deviate even slightly, things go haywire. They do not care for it one bit. They short-circuit in there if you try to say anything other than good morning. It's because they've been checked out for like a year. They just know they have to say like good morning, and then Vladdy goes, hello, hello.

His catchphrase. I take naps or brush my teeth. Alright, we are coming to you live here from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Sore feet, what are you waiting for? Oh, wait, no, you do it.

Oh, man, I screwed it up already. That's all right. That's all right. Oh, boy. Well, to be fair, you did all of it on Thursday and Friday. So I'm still in that mode. We'll get it next hour. Anyways.

Don't ever step on my toes again. Do not do the frickin freaking Kintec read. Kintec feeds my family, buddy. Out of brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. Hour one is brought to you by Northstar Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler.

Pays the highest prices on scrap metal. Northstar Metal Recycling. They recycle. You get paid. 1170 Powell Street. Here's what's coming up on the show today. It was a very busy weekend. There's been a couple of Canucks games since this show was last on the air.

Of course, NFL Sunday. Big Juan Soto news, of course, as well. So at 630, Adnan Virk is going to join us from MLB Network, NHL Network. He's also the host of Amazon Prime Monday Night Hockey. So lots to get into with Adnan. Did the Jays get Soto? You're never going to believe this. No, they did not.

Oh, I bet they tried really hard. The highest profile free agent on the market? No, didn't come to Toronto. I bet Soto definitely. Did he fly to their training facility or anything like that? I bet he really strongly considered it. Oh, my God. Yeah.

All the articles yesterday are like, well, it was a good idea, but they struck out on Soto. Now, how are they going to pivot? It's like, well, I hope they had a lot of plans on how to pivot. I hope they weren't counting on Juan Soto. Because we went through this last year, guys, and it didn't work out then, either, Shohei Otani. I will say, I had zero, like, I got suckered in by the Shohei thing last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We out then either of Shohei Otani. I will say I had zero. Like, I got suckered in by the Shohei thing last year. Yeah, yeah. We all did. 100%. Yeah. Zero.

Like, not for a single second did I ever think Juan Soto was coming to Toronto. The victory for the Blue Jays fans was that he didn't sign with the Yankees. That's right. Yeah. Got out of the AL. Got out of the AL East. We'll take it. The Jays got used again, though. They got used. Whatever. You gotta live with it at a certain point. If he goes to the Mets, that's fine.

Alright, so 6.30 at Nenverk. 7. Mike Tanier, our NFL insider to look at everything that happened in the NFL yesterday. And at 8 o'clock, Satyar Shah from right here on Sportsnet 650. We'll talk to Sat about the latest happening with the Canucks.

So working in reverse, 8 o'clock Satyar Shah, 7 o'clock, Mike Tanier. 6.30 is Adnan Virk. That's what's coming up on the show. Before we do any of that, let's tell everyone what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No.

What happened? I missed all the action because I was. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? You missed that? What happened? Did you miss that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance,

making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit bccsa.ca. Canucks split a pair of home games over the weekend. On Friday, we don't have to get into this one too much. It's a while ago now, but on Friday they overcome a brutal, brutal first period to beat Columbus 5-2. Yesterday they lose 4-2 in the afternoon against Tampa. Canucks scored first thanks to Quinn Hughes.

Eventually fell behind 2-1, tied it up in the third, but then Jake Gensel scored late on the power play after a too-many-men call in a pivotal situation to give Tampa the lead for good. Yeah, two odd, weird games that sort of represent the Canucks' season to date. Against Columbus, they won, which, you know, as you mentioned, is good. But their start was so dreadful that it's impossible

to ignore how badly they got dominated by a not very good team playing at second of a back-to-back you know if you tuned into that game late uh and you looked at the shot clock in the first period you'd be like what what what what were the shots like 16 to 2 at one point 17 to 2 17 to 2 is this columbus uh and you know, I realized that Columbus was playing on their second of a back-to-back. So sometimes what happens in those situations is actually the team that played the night before still has their legs and they still have their instincts. They just played.

So they can sometimes get off to a good start. While the Canucks, you know, they're coming back from a long road trip. Sometimes that team is a little sleepy in their first home game. But, you know, there's a limit to that. There's a limit to that excuse, and it just got so bad. But hey, you know what? Good on the Canucks for finding a way back into that game. Elvis Merzlikens helped them with a poor decision,

and then their talent showed off, and they won. They won the game, so that's good. Against Tampa Bay, they started fine, but their lull came in the second when they got into penalty trouble and were outscored 2-1 while getting outshot, and they were outshot 18-5. They did find a way to tie it in the third when Tyler Myers, of all people, was behind the Tampa net for some reason.

In his office. Yeah, fed Sherwood out in front of the net, and Sherwood scored. So once again, they found a way to stay in a game despite missing a number of key players, and they were playing a really good team in Tampa Bay. But as you mentioned, too many men. They only killed them late in the third. I cannot imagine a more frustrating way for Rick Tockett to lose the game, especially considering all that he harps on, line changes,

and there was a miscommunication. And, you know, those things do happen once in a while, but, oh, that was a bad time for it to happen. Against that power play, too. Yeah, the Lightning took the lead on the power play, and that was pretty much it. Here's Rick To talkett afterwards talking about the lightning's top players were the ones that got it done for them on special teams

yeah i liked our five on five play you know special teams won the game for them and their best players uh but i thought five on five uh we were we were fine just you know obviously unfortunate can't have that too many men and then that's it they the you know the Kucherov show and you know there you go so uh that's the way I look at it so still no JT Miller for the Canucks we'll wait and see on that we thought that Thatcher Demko might start one of these games against Columbus or even Tampa Bay. Didn't happen. He did back up Kevin Lankanen, so now we look ahead to Tuesday against the St. Louis Blues

at Rogers Arena. So the Canucks are definitely still in it in terms of missing key players. But I did some crowdsourcing on social media after Sunday's game because I have to be honest, I don't have a good handle on the Canucks this season. There are some seasons where I'm like, yeah, I know, I know what's going on with the Canucks. I know what they're good at. I know where they're struggling a little bit, But I think this year has just been so, I don't know if weird is the right way to put it,

but there have been some unusual storylines that we've gone over numerous times from Thatcher Demko's rare injury. Unique. The poplatias, which we all learned about. You know, JT Miller's absence. I thought Petey's slump early in the season was a bit odd. You know, and his slump last season was a little bit odd.

Did you mention that on air at any point? I've noticed, but hey, you know what? I haven't been able to talk about Petey much, but I might talk a little bit more today about him. You know, not to mention things like their great record on the road versus they're not so great record at home. I don't get that. I don't know what's going on there.

I don't know if that's just a coincidence or there's something concrete. There's a concrete reason for that. But I wanted to ask the listeners, like, what do you make of this team? And I thought I'd go through some of the themes with you, and I'll run them by you and see what you think about them. So the first theme is actually one that I agree with. It might be the one that I agree with the most. The Canucks should be commended for building a 14-8-4 record,

given all they've been through from Demko to Dakota Joshua to Miller to Hronik. That's a massive absence for them. They are grinding for results right now, and that's all you can ask of them. What do you think of that overall theme? I think that's totally fair, and I'll just give you a little preview here because I can see some of the ones that are coming. And even the contradictory ones, I agree with almost all of the things that the listeners pointed out, and I think that encapsulates

what a weird season it is, right? That you can agree with seemingly totally contradictory or in opposition things and points about the Canucks. But yeah, the point that, look, okay, it's not as if they're out of the playoffs. They're top three in their division, right? They're solidly there. The playoffs are not at risk at this moment

because of the record at all. Maybe you can say, okay, because of the process, you're a little concerned about it. But I even look at that game yesterday, and if you had said in august what do the canucks look like without jt miller or philip pronick in the lineup it's like well they're probably going to struggle that's probably not going to be pretty and it's like that was the case last uh yesterday right so when you consider all of the absences have we seen good versions of jt miller and alias petterson in the lineup at the same time

this year I don't know that we have right so maybe maybe one one or two games so yeah that's really really challenging circumstances so I think there's a lot of truth to the idea that hey it could be a lot worse than what it is right now here's another theme that came up the Canucks cannot beat good teams. Their schedule has been, for the most part, quite soft in terms of the opposition. And if you're looking at teams that are likely to make the playoffs, the Canucks have probably lost to them this season. Yeah, I think the only one that you can really

hang your hat on is beating the Kings on the road. Was that their best win of the season? It's kind of got to be, I think. The Kings are on a five-game winning streak right now, so they look like pretty much sure things for the playoffs. So you can say that's a win over a playoff team. But like in terms of – That California trip might have been their high point of the season.

In terms of performance in a win, the other one that stands out to me is the Ottawa game before it got away from them late. But like Ottawa's not that good. So, okay. Well, that was the game they were already missing guys, and then they lost Hughes for most of it. That was impressive. That was a fun game, too.

Yes. But you're right. Ottawa's not a good team, so it doesn't really address the fact that the Canucks can't beat good teams. Are the Canucks elite, would you say? No. No? You'd say no?

Even with all their injuries? Say everybody's back they got their full roster are the Canucks as it stands right now elite I let me see that yeah it depends a lot on how those guys are performing when they're back because you can get that you don't go back but if he's not playing like an elite goalie right how do you define elite well hanging with the very best teams in the league as you said they struggle against well you gotta do more than hang right you gotta you gotta beat them soundly at times. For me, elite means you got a chance to win the Stanley Cup.

Yes. So I don't even know. Which they did last year. They were one of the best teams in the league last year. But did you ever think they could win the Stanley Cup? Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't.

Okay. You're an optimist. I just, you know, yeah. But listen, it's a debate you could have. I have time for that. They were one win away from getting to the semifinals, so obviously they had a chance to win the Stanley Cup. But I just, I never thought they just, they never struck me as like,

wow, these guys are dominant like they could they 2011 yeah 2011 yeah like i remember thinking about 2011 like wow these guys are really really really good these guys do everything well i guess i just never quite got to that point last season although last season was awesome and very fun and it did make me wonder you know like oh my god like maybe they'll do something but i just never really felt it in my bones at any rate here's another theme uh and i don't know whether you take this as a good or a bad maybe it's a mixed thing without quinn hughes they would be totally screwed the contrast when he was out of the game and i mean the four minute power play was a disaster just completely flat and then the long stretch of even strength where

he was out of the game still yesterday in the first period and nothing was happening right and they showed it on the broadcast and they were really just struggling to break out the puck and they couldn't get anything going and then almost as soon as he came back and he played three quick shifts uh in in quick succession it was night and day from how it had looked even just in like a five or six minute stretch without Quinn Hughes before that and then he opens the scoring obviously so if there was one thing you asked me to say for certain about this Canucks team it would be that Quinn Hughes is super elite right and Quinn Hughes the people that we'll get more into this right that the people that are worried that they're going to fall out of a playoff spot my counter to that would be if Quinn Hughes is

healthy in the lineup you're never gonna go on for a month where you have like a 300 points percentage or something you know what I mean because you have quinn hughes and he's not going that's just not going to happen when you have a player of his caliber that that if there's one thing we can say for absolute certain about this team it is the greatness of quinn hughes and you're right there's a dark a dark side to that right which is that they are so reliant on him and if he misses any stretch of games it would get ugly in a hurry. But obviously it's a tremendously positive thing that you have a player who is single-handedly capable of winning you games, keeping you in games, and helping you rack up points, even in challenging circumstances.

So here's a text that came in to the Dunbar Lumber text line, 650-650, and if you want to text in and have your say, feel free to do so. Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and reno warriors for over 50 years. Visit them on one of their three locations to serve you or online at DunbarLumber.com. Here's a text. The Canucks are like Petey right now, getting results but cannot dominate anyone. Something

always looks off. I agree with that. It's a good text. And brings us to another theme. And again, I did some crowdsourcing after the Lightning game just to see where everyone is on this team right now because it has been an unusual season. Petey is playing better, but he's still not at the level of his contract, and he's still not getting enough shots off. So Pettersson in his last, let's just look at him in December, his last four games.

Six assists in four games. Pretty good. No goals, five shots. No shots against the Tampa Bay Lightning. And I think we can all recognize that Petey is playing better than he was at the beginning of last season. Or sorry, at the beginning of this season, at the end of last season, and in the playoffs.

We can all agree. And that's great. It's great. You got to show some progress. The one word I keep using to describe Pedersen, and it's not a compliment, is deferential. He always seems to want to pass the puck off. And I'm not talking about shoot, shoot, shoot. I'm talking about attack, you know, and you can attack in a number of different ways. You can attack by shooting the puck. That's one way for sure. You can also attack just by trying

to beat a guy. And we've seen it a little bit more, him trying to take on guys one-on-one, but I still see, and this really, I think, shows up on the power play, where he's just a guy that you pass it to if he's open, but he's going to pass it back to you, right? He doesn't even pretend to fake a one-timer, you know, like he, you know, if Ovi's out there, for example, or anyone who's good on the power play, right? They're setting up to shoot. They're getting their body in position to shoot. Now, it might be that they get the puck, they're set up to shoot, and they lift their head.

They're like, all right, I'm not going to shoot because I'm just going to get this blocked. But the threat is there. With Petey, it looks like he's just there to accept a pass, and then he's going to give it back. I mean, the Canucks' power play at times is like, let's pass it around on the outside, and then Quinn will just finally get fed up,

and he'll just be like, all right, I'm going to move my feet at the top, I'm going to open up a shooting lane, I'm going to fire it on net. That's our power play. Yeah. Right? And look, it is, again, I've been one of Pedersen's loudest critics, and I make no apologies for that, and I'm willing to say that he's been better. I mean, look, he's getting points, right? And that's good.

That's important. But I still think he's playing not even close to the level of his contract. And if you say, well, that's the Canucks' fault for giving him that contract, I'm like, come on, you've got to play up to your level. Look at what Rick Totten had said last night after the game, and I think it was probably directed less at Tampa Bay than it was at the Vancouver Canucks. Their top guys came through.

Kucherov, point. You need more than one. You can't just be Quinn Hughes doing everything. Petey is going to start performing at an even higher level than he has in the last little while. Well, and I think that text that said, pointed out the similarities between Pedersen and the team, right? Because, you know, as you were saying, like, look, he's producing, right?

And that is commendable. And there's something to be said for a star player getting their points and getting their production, even if they're not at their best and i think the shots thing is a really good point right that's one of the things that still has to come back for petterson there's a positive side to that just like there's a positive side to the canucks continuing to rack up wins and points and results and hang in the playoff race without being at their best and then the other similarity is can you point to a signature performance from either either the team or alias petterson right because star players they'll go

through stretches where yeah they're mostly just racking up points and they're not necessarily you know putting their stamp on game after game but then they'll have games or they'll have a series of games a week of games or 10 days or whatever where they're dominant where they are you know it's a four point night and a game-breaking play to win it in the third period and we've seen that from Elias Pettersson and we have not seen it yet this year he doesn't have a signature game where he's taken it over and done Quinn Hughes type of stuff to help them get a result to help them get a win and it's the same thing with the Canucks, right? They don't have a signature statement win that we can point to and say, when they're

at their best, that's what they look like and that's why they're going to be an elite team. We're waiting for those statements from both the team and Elias Pettersson. Obviously, that's related, right? Like, if Elias Pettersson was putting up those types of performances, there's a good chance the team would be, too. So, there's a few more themes that

we can go through later in the show. Do we have some 32 Thoughts audio? We do. There was some Miller discussion on 32 Thoughts on the last podcast. Okay, let's hear it. They're getting closer to his return, and both publicly and privately, like Jim Rutherford has come out publicly and said,

we're not trading this guy, and he's annoyed at all the speculation. He thinks it's wrong. Sometimes what's said publicly is not the same thing as what's said privately. But privately, that's what they have indicated to people too. They're not trading him. Miller has not asked for a trade. And I think what Vancouver wants to do is, you know, Miller's been out. Demko's been out, although now he's getting close to starting.

Forbert's been out, and I know they like Forbert a lot. I think they want to see their team with everybody back. A, they want to see how's Miller doing after everything here and what does our team look like on the ice and then I think they'll start making their decisions on where they're going and what everything looks like they just want to play they want to play they they lost to Tampa they had a bit of a tough loss on Sunday too. Their record has been really good against non-playoff teams. Not so great against playoff teams.

But all you can do is beat who's on your schedule. And I think they look at it as we've kept our heads above water through a lot of craziness. And now we're going to see what we look like with everybody back. so four games remaining on this homestand and some interesting teams coming in st louis which made a coaching change

uh is on tuesday florida the defending stanley cups cup champs on thursday saturday is a visit from the boston bruins and then mond, next Monday, a week from today, is the Colorado Avalanche and their highly talented players and highly suspect goaltending is coming to town. So those are going to be four interesting games. We'll see if Demko starts any of them. We'll see if JT Miller is back. We'll see if Derek Forbort gets back into the lineup.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. I think one of the big things that people might forget, but Rick Tockett and the management group talked a lot about, and we even kind of poked fun at it because they kept on saying it, was we need to empower the leadership group and tell this leadership group how to lead essentially. And we knew that Quinn Hughes was speaking up more and more and wanted to be

part of the leadership group. We knew that JT Miller was always going to speak up, but maybe just had to be taught how to lead a little bit better and maybe how to channel his emotions. Pedersen, a bit of a different story. I never got the feeling that Talkett saw what he wanted to see from Pedersen in terms of speaking up, and maybe that's just his personality.

Some people are extroverts, or some people are more comfortable putting themselves out. Other people aren't, and that's fine. Pedersen still got an A because he's one of their best players, one of the best, one of the obvious, well, he's their highest paid player. So he got an A. But the leadership group, you know, for me, it started with Quinn Hughes, and he's only gotten better in that capacity because Quinn, first of all, his play on the ice is incredible.

He's always trying to get better. He identifies something that he wants to get better at. He wants to score more goals. All right, you're going to work on your shot, work on opening up shooting lanes. He's done that. He's scored more goals, right? It's very impressive.

I think he's also more willing to speak up in the room in case they need a kick in the butt and actually talk. It made reference of Hughes standing up and saying something after the first period against Columbus. They came back to win that game. But I also think the thing about Quinn Hughes is like, I think he feels a real responsibility to make sure that all his teammates are feeling good about things. And there's an empathy capacity to being a captain that I see in Quinn Hughes. Without being in the room, but you can kind of tell.

Well, and I think he recognizes he doesn't have to be the loudest voice all the time, right? Because they have JT Miller. So if you're trying to out- We got this guy over here. He loves to yell. You know what I mean? But if you're trying to out... We got this guy over here. He loves to yell. You know what I mean? But if you're trying to out-emotion JT Miller, that's a losing game. We already pay a guy for that. You have to take a different

approach, and honestly, I mean, that's typically what we've seen from captains in Vancouver, and I think over the last, what, since Marcus Naslund, certainly, and I think there's a reason for that. Henrik, for sure. Yeah, Henrik, even Bo. Anytime that Quinn gets asked about his latest accomplishment, first thing he says, great teammates.

Yeah. And you're kind of like, you actually have it. Are you sure about that? You want to take some more of the credit here, buddy? They're not really doing much. It's all about there. Just once I want to hear him be like. Are you watching the game or just too busy playing it?

Just once I want to hear him be like, yeah, you know, I'm really good. Really good player. But I think it's funny because I am awesome. It's mostly me. I'm doing everything out here. Are you watching? How often during, especially the Bo Horvath captaincy era, right, where they were losing a lot,

would people get really frustrated that he wasn't that hard on his sleeve, rah-rah, yelling, emotion guy? And I just don't think that flies in vancouver like i don't think that's the way to be a good captain of this team and i think quinn hughes is taking a page out of henrik's book marcus naslin is just like i'm gonna be the calming voice i'm gonna be the guy who's super chill who's not doing peaks and valleys because everyone else in the city is doing peaks and valleys all the time. I'm going to be the opposite of that. When your team is in a bad spot, either midseason or let's say it's in the middle of a game. Yeah.

Do you want a guy yelling at you and freaking out and smashing his stick in the dressing room? Or would you prefer a guy that has a very quiet confidence and then says, guys, this is what we got to do. That's right. We can't have anyone freak out out there, okay? We've got to keep our composure. We've gone too far. There's too much to lose. We've got to keep our composure.

There's a reason that clip is so funny, right? I mean, there's a guy losing his composure saying you need to keep your composure. And, you know, with Quinn Hughes, I mean, again, I don't know what he's like behind the scenes. Maybe he's a monster, but I don't think so. That would be hilarious. I would much rather have a leader that is like, guys,

and you know he's going to play well, you know that he's going to do his part and he's not going to be yelling at you and then breaking all the rules himself i'd much rather have a guy that has composure and a quiet confidence absolutely and to bring it back to the buffalo sabers right if you look at like the transformation of the culture and the leadership group here in vancouver a huge share of the credit goes to quinn hughes himself right he stepped up he wanted to be captain. He wanted to be a leader. He's gotten simultaneously, at the same time that he's become a really good captain, at least as far as we can tell, he's also become arguably the best defenseman in the game, which is really impressive.

Having said that, the management group and Rick Talkett, the coach they hired, had to create the environment where that could happen, right? They had to recognize that he was the right choice for captain. They had to, as you say, empower him. Rick Talkett had to coach the team in such a way that he played his part in building the structure and the culture in the room as well. And more than anything, I think that's what needs to happen with the Buffalo Sabres. It's fine to look at Rasmus Deline and say, like, you're the captain, and you're making $11 million a year. You need to figure out a way to lead.

Of course he does. But the team has to put him in a position where he can have success in that role. They have to empower him. They have to create the environment. And they have to build a better team. Rasmus Deline can be the best leader of all time. And if the team's not talented enough, guess what? You're probably not going to make the playoffs. And if you you do make it you're not going very far once you get

there so it really does have to be an all three levels thing where there are you know how much do we hear the word alignment right and it's like that's what the Canucks have from Quinn Hughes to the coach to the executives they have alignment I don't think Buffalo has anything close to that right now uh this guy's texted in this question a few times, so we will reward him for his perseverance. Unsigned text, but it says, I'm curious to get your thoughts on the narrative that Petey needs to be, quote-unquote, the guy,

the guy, to be at his highest level and whether you're concerned about his play regressing when JT returns. I have all the time in the world for this conspiracy theory, and I love it. It's very, very interesting. I read this during the break, and I know, I think our next guest, Sat, has talked about this, right?

This idea that Petey really wants to be the premier player. And first of all, okay, people are saying- What about the premier forward? Well, yeah, because I was like, even in Miller's absence, it's like, well, Quinn Hughes is the captain and the best player. He's still not the guy. You notice how much Petey is smiling right now? This looks like a big weight off his shoulder.

He's so happy. We all, this is not the first time that the idea of conflict between Patterson and JT Miller has been brought up, obviously, over the last number of years, right? And we've all heard. And they've admitted they're not besties. We've all heard different theories about what's happened, their relationship, how it's impacting their play, frustration. In this case, hey, does Petey do better if he's the premier forward?

The phrase that comes to mind for me, and this is something I tell my kids all the time, when they're squabbling over nonsense, what I always come back to say is figure it out. So like this show, pretty much? Figure it out. Yeah. Like, oh, she took my toy out at So like this show pretty much. Figure it out. Yeah. Like, oh, she took a big toy out at first. I don't care. Figure it out and stop annoying me right now. And it's like these guys, I have no idea what the backstory is or if Pedersen does do better when he's the guy in the spotlight or if Miller's frustrated with that or whatever.

I have no idea. Whatever's going on, figure it out and find a way to play well on the same team together it's really just those two guys need to figure it out do you think there's something to it like the patterson one specifically just something something about the dynamic there i mean yeah yeah i would say so like you know where there's smoke there's fire how much smoke has there been i usually tell the kids by the way figure it out or I'll figure it out for you. But then I have no idea how to figure it out. I'm like, how about some iPad time?

If you're threatening enough, it'll never get to that point. I will admit this was an empty threat. Do you think maybe they do need just some iPad time? Yeah, maybe some screen time. All right, Petey, do you want some screen time? All right. They're feeling big emotions. He deactivated all his accounts, right?

He misses his screen time. That's true, actually. No, but he's like smiling. He's happier. That's what happens when you put down the phone. Maybe screen time's the problem. We're going to chat some Canucks with our next guest from right here on Sportsnet 650. He is Satyar Shah.

Sat, what's going on, buddy? What's going on, gentlemen? So how are you feeling being help for it? I mean, yeah, being help for it this week. I love it. It's great. I don't know. No, it's going on, buddy? What's going on, gentlemen? So how are you feeling being Halford? I mean, yeah, being Halford this week. I love it. It's great. I don't know. No, it's fine.

I treat Jamie better than I treat Halford. He definitely does. Yeah. Well, it's always, we don't have the history, like the bad blood. It's kind of like a new partner, right? Yeah. Yeah.

You have to be with somebody for six months before you see their true side, right? Exactly. I like Jamie, you know? I think that would be the big difference. So, Sat, I know this is not what like a sports talk host is supposed to do, but I came in earlier today and I said, I want to hear everyone else's thoughts on the Canucks because I can't figure this team out.

And I don't know if they're having a good season or a disappointing season because I look at their record and it's pretty good. And then I watch some of their games and I'm like, oh, this doesn't look like a great team. But then I think, well, they're missing a bunch of guys. But then I also think, well, there's no guarantee those guys are going to be back and at top form. What are your just like opening thoughts?

If someone were to come up to you and be like, how's the Canucks season going? How would you answer it? I've been thinking about this because I saw the post you had on social media about this last night and the amount of responses to it. I think overall, the way I would view it is they're fine. That's how I would view it. They've done fine.

And I don't know if you can be overly negative. I know fans are a bit concerned about style of play of course right some guys have struggled it doesn't look 100 but i think if you don't look 100 you've had the injuries you've had and you're still kind of within the top three of the division and your point percentage is fine and you're almost a third of way into the season i don't know if you can look at that negatively i do agree that we haven't seen the ceiling of this team. What we've seen ceiling-wise hasn't been impressive. I don't think based on anything we've seen,

this team looks like a contender, but we haven't seen them be healthy. We haven't seen their top guys play at the same level before. And it's kind of like just a push, a third of the way into the season. And I think generally speaking, we have a good idea of what a team is when we get to this stage of a year,

or at least what they're trending towards being. And i think the reason why there is a lot of concern and unknown is because we just don't know and i think that's a that's a it seems like a bit of a cop-out answer but i don't think it is like i really don't think we've seen the true nature what this team is all about and what we've seen so far hasn't been overly convincing but it's all with the context of look at the injuries look at the situations going on with demko look at the whole jt thing you look at the code of joshua and it seems like it's one thing the context of look at the injuries, look at the situations going on with Demko, look at the whole JT thing. You look at Dakota Joshua, and it seems like it's one thing after another. And the head coach was mentioning last week

that there's noise that they're trying to block out of the team, especially with all the JT stuff going around before Jim Rutherford came out and kind of quieted all that stuff down last week with the comments to Patrick Johnson. So I'd overall just look at it and say it's positive, I think, because I don't think we can sit here with their record and considering the context of the injuries and talk about what a failure they are a third of the way into the season yeah and one thing we've heard

most recently from Friedman today on the latest 32 thoughts but we've heard from reporters in this city as well is that management kind of wants to see what this team looks like with either a full lineup or maybe a full lineup minus Filip Rona because he's going to be out for eight weeks before they decide what they want to do ahead of the trade deadline. And I guess I'm curious, you know, how long do they need to see the full team together, right? And what bar does the team need to hit in management's eyes before they decide, okay, we're going to be aggressive at the trade deadline?

Because, OK, it's great. Like, hey, you might get Demko back tomorrow. You might get Miller back this week. But to expect the team just to immediately transform into, you know, a Stanley Cup like team once those guys are back in the lineup, that might be a tall order. So, you know, I understand. OK, we want to see everyone together. We want to see how they look with all their players in the lineup, that might be a tall order. So, you know, I understand, okay, we want to see everyone together. We want to see how they look with all their players in the lineup. But, I mean, how good do they have to be and how soon, once that's the case, to kind of convince management to go out and be aggressive? So, I understand the entire point of they want to see everybody be healthy. I think they're not wrong.

I don't think it's wrong to to portray it as such but i do think that if they had a bit more cap space they may have already done something i think a big reason why they are being patient is they also have to figure out okay if we if we're actually moving out say a dance at heinen i'm just throwing this out as a hypothetical do we want to move him now or do you want to kind of see where he fits in because the hope had kind of been that he might be able to play up and down a lineup a little bit maybe play with jt perhaps even play with pedersen if need be we haven't we haven't seen that unfold we've seen him play down a fourth line for the most part especially his game

struggling these past couple weeks we know Deharnais for instance he's had his struggles I'm not even sure you can easily move that contract at the moment but I think it's maybe more about right now considering how capped out they are they can't make a trade without sending money out. People keep bringing up, why don't they trade Niels Hoaglander for Marcus Pedersen? Well, they can't do it straight up now to begin with. Hoaglander's making 1.1.

Pedersen's making over 4 million. And even if you ask Pittsburgh to retain half the salary, that's a huge extra price you have to pay for them to retain that much at this point in the season. I just don't see a pathway for them right now to make a trade without making money in and money out. And I think that's, that's what complicates things. If they had more cap space, I don't know if we'd hear as much about, Oh,

we're going to see what happens. Cause I think what we're going to see what happens means, do we have to move somebody off the roster? That's making a little bit of money to make a move. And right now perhaps you're not quite as willing to do that until you see some more information. But I think this, this front office, even as we speak, I wouldn't be surprised if they already got off the phone with somebody

looking at improving their team. I think it's going to be hard given their cap situation to do so before the roster freeze, and they're going to have to wait. It's going to take time. And as far as how this all works out, by the deadline, if you can accrue a few million, if you get healthy, and if you have to go with the LTIR, now you have more money to play with closer to trade deadline.

That's a lot easier for you to make trades. So I think a lot of it is positioning yourself for the best time to make a trade. But I don't think this front office needs to be sold, so to speak, on the direction of the team before they make trades. And I do think that they're going to do something at some point. And if this season isn't going the way they want it to go, I still think that they're going to do something at some point and if this season isn't going the way they want it to go I still think they'll make trades it just won't be the types of trades that people expected. So Sat I think a lot of people might be listening to this and being

like what cap space they got they got Hronik on LTIR this cap hits like seven million dollars why can't they use Hronik's cap space to make a trade well i mean they could but the expectation right now is for philip ronick to return in a couple of months so if he's going to be back say by the end of january or perhaps even sometime in february then you have to activate him off ltir you have to have the cap space to do so i know people look at it and say why not do what tampa did and yeah you could ltir somebody until the end of the season and bring him into the playoffs but right now that does not seem somebody until the end of the season and bring him into the playoffs. But right now, that does not seem to be the desire of the organization.

And it certainly does not seem to be the desire of Philip Gronick. I think a big reason why Philip Gronick took so much time to figure out what to do with his injuries is, a lot of it was, how can I take care of myself and also be back to play

before this regular season ends? So as long as the plan for Philip Gronick and the organization is for Philip Gronick and the organization is for Philip Hronik to come back and play for the team before the season ends, you really can dip into that LTIR space aggressively. Right. Because you could paint yourself into a corner then, right? Like you add, you add salary and then Hronik's ready to go. He's like, all right, time to activate me. And it's like, Oh, here's the problem. We got to move money. And then you, and then you're in a

tough position because the other teams are like, oh, you have to move this money. Well, that ain't going to be easy for you. No, exactly. And I think if the player was, say, slated to come back sometime in April, right before the season ends, you can easily be like, hey, let's just wait. He'll come in for the playoffs. But when that's not the case, you just can't add the money and then find a way to get rid of it. Because there's no way you can get rid of $7 million, for instance, if you add a $7 million contract by the time you get to the trade deadline.

Even if you cobble together a couple of, let's say, Desjardins and Heinen. Again, poor Dan's at Heinen. I'm throwing him under the bus today. But you add his salary, you add Desjardins, that's $4.25 million, for instance. But that still leaves you another $3 million. You've got to figure out how to create cap space for so right now i get it and maybe it changes right like we don't know how the recovery for cronix going to go what if we hear about a setback in a month or so and he's going to be out until the end of the season or at least end of regular season that changes the equation as we sit here and speak today the expectation

is philip cronix to be back before the regular season ends. So I always like asking you this question because I'm known as one of PD's biggest critics and you might be known as one of PD's biggest believers. Where are you right now with Elias Pettersson? I think it's kind of the pendulum he's swinging. He was really promising. We were talking about this last week and even a few games ago. But I these last three or four games his line hasn't been good enough and i think it you know not even offensively because they've scored you know on the power play they've had decent

production but i think defensively that line is getting killed you look at five on five these last four games they've given up six goals eight goals we consider even strength of empty netters going in i'm okay with that line not crushing and scoring you know two or three goals every game especially when they're going to have to tap the tough matchups and play big minutes i get it you don't have to jt miller i don't not expect you to go out there and have three or four points every night but i don't want you guys to get scored on as much as you're getting scored on and i know part of it is the defenseman again day harney's had his struggles and we've seen how that's kind of, you know,

gone a while when he's been on the ice with Branson a few times and that line's been with them when that's happened. But when I look at Patterson's game and I look at him being at his best, he's a two-way player and he's excellent defensively. In these last four or five games, sure, there's the power play production offensively creates some chances, but I don't think that two-way game is where it needs to be. So we're still back at that same point where we're not seeing Patterson

fully put everything together. He's far better than what he was, obviously, the first seven, eight, nine games of the season. But I don't think these past four or five games, that line, and him in particular, have been a strong enough two-way force. The word I keep coming back to is deferential. He's way too deferential like and i'm not and again i i kind of made this clear earlier i'm not just talking about shoot

shoot the puck you know whenever you get it shoot the puck but at least look like you might shoot and attack players more attacking you can attack by shooting or you attack by trying to beat a guy you know the kids like to say do your dekes like do that right and i don't know where that's gone but when i watch him on the power play he's just kind of uh yeah he'll get the puck and then he'll pass it he'll get the puck and then he'll pass it but it won't be like a a gunslinger pass it'll more likely to just be like all right pass it back to quinn at the point it's like you want to see him take some guys on right and I think when he's at his best he'll do that and if he takes a guy on you know create some space for somebody else because he'll drag

somebody else out of position and he's just not I don't know if it's confident I don't know if the mentality but he's just not doing that enough on the power play either and a lot of it is being deferential to Quinn it just seems like as soon as we can let get the puck to Quinn, and Quinn's going to do his thing. And at some point, you know, teams – and you're seeing teams defend it fairly well. And to be fair, I mean, the Canucks power play before, you know, yesterday afternoon against Tampa was clicking at 30% the past 15 games leading into it. So they've been doing fine production-wise, right?

But you're right. We're not seeing Pedersen take guys on as much. And there is a couple of instances where he has space to just take a guy on. It's not even about getting the shot off to your point, but if you beat that guy, then all of a sudden you create space for somebody else. And that's when he's at his best. He's dragging guys out of position and dishing it off to somebody else in

open space. And right now that, that type of belief in his game isn't there. Right. And I am a bit surprised that we haven't seen it grow the past couple of games, considering how much better he looked on the road trip yeah it really seemed like it was trending in the right direction and as you said taking a step backwards over the last few games uh I wanted to

ask you sat about uh Jonathan Leckermacky as well because he came up obviously came up for the five games scored a goal goes back down you know I think he was up just for a practice last week as well before they sent him back down. And when he was initially sent down to Abbotsford, he didn't kind of go immediately back to dominating like he had been earlier in the season. But over the weekend, back-to-back two-goal and one-assist games. So four goals and six points in two games over the weekend.

And, you know, I especially look at just the amount of guys the Canucks have cycled through in that fourth-line right with max sasson up now our steep baines has come up and gone back down right as you said like danton heinen slid down to a fourth line role i mean how long is it before we see lecker mackie up playing games again and could it be more of a permanent call up the next time he does come back up to the big club? I mean, I would be surprised if it is a permanent call-up. Because when I watched, like, for Mackey last time, and I went back and watched a couple of his games,

because Yannick really made me think when we had him on after the first couple of games, and he's like, he's just that fast enough. He's that quick enough. I'm like, is he not? Like, he moves pretty quick. And then you go watch his first few steps, and it's like, okay, that burst isn't quite there. He needs to get stronger, obviously.

I'm just not sure, guys, he's ready to have a full-time nhl role yet i think that he's he's a guy that still has to work on his game he has to get quicker he's got to get stronger and he can come up and play a few games and maybe he comes to states for say 20 and provides you a little bit something but i just don't know if he's ready to be able to handle the minutes and also to handle the up and down nature of the nhL as he's still trying to develop. Because the thing is, you're still looking at a kid who's 20 years old, who's still growing into his body, still becoming confident,

still mentally trying to get stronger. Do you want to have him be here full time and then go through the rigors of the NHL, the ups and downs, the, Hey, today I'm playing well, I'm playing with Pedersen. Well, tomorrow I struggled. I'm back on the fourth line. Now I'm playing with guys that don't have the same level of offensive contributions and now i have to play more of a grinding style i can't use my skill and that gets into a perpetual cycle of a guy getting down on himself and i just don't want to see him go through that and i'm not sure he's quite ready to play full time

yet and i'm okay with him coming up and getting you know a bit of a taste here and there maybe a few games here and there. But I don't think any of these young guys, you know, fellows, whether it's even Sasson or Ratu or any of these forwards, R.C. Bain, I don't think these guys are helping you win this year. I think they can help you get along. I think they can help patch together. I think they can provide you depth and call-up options,

and it's great for their experience. But I don't think these guys are going to help you in a meaningful way this season to win games in the playoffs it's probably pretty easy for yannick to say yeah he's not quick enough yannick yannick could say that about like 90 of the guys in the league he was such a good skater but it actually brings up a good question and someone texted this in earlier do you think the canucks as a team are fast enough they haven't looked fast enough the last couple games right like they've looked you know quite slower than they were and it's surprising because they looked a lot faster to begin the year part

of that of course is you don't have philip veronic transporting the puck as efficiently so you're not that quick getting out of your own zone without him being there and jt miller for i know you know sometimes when he's not skating he looks pretty slow he's one of the quickest most powerful powerful players in the league as far as burst goes and on this team he's not skating, he looks pretty slow. He's one of the quickest, most powerful players in the league as far as burst goes. And on this team, he's easily one of their fastest players. So when you replace him as your second line or one of your top two centers with a guy who's not very fast,

a few suitor, that's going to take your team speed down a notch. So I think this team is faster than what they have shown because of the injuries. But I am a bit surprised that on the wings, they haven't looked quite as quick considering the guys they have should be decent skaters sad here's a question for you which contract extension do you think more about brock bessers or rick tockets well you know recently i've been thinking more about bessers because talk it still you know you know the team will always say we have one more year for Tawkins with the team option or whatever. So you can kick that can down the road another month, another year.

I do think more right now about the Besser one because it's gone quiet. And I'm not saying it's gone quiet that they're not talking, but you're just not hearing a lot and you're asking about it. And I keep wondering, I mean, do we get to a point where this comes to a head? And part of maybe waiting to see how the season unfolds is how does Besser fit into this, right? Are you still confident that he fits in here long-term or not? If it does, great. If not, what do you have to do?

Because there's no way they're letting him walk as a free agent. I don't think they can be in that position. This is not like last year where you're loading up and you trade for Lindholm and you're okay with him leaving. I don't know if you're okay with Besser leaving for nothing when you get to that stage. So that's more immediately on my mind. But I do wonder about Rick Tockett as well, because he's the guy who's going to have a lot of options in a year's time.

And depending on how this year goes and the type of bargaining position the Canucks take with him, I am intrigued. Because I think having won the Norris Trophy and having been a guy who's, you know, had a couple of jobs, has a great reputation, I wouldn't be surprised if he's going to be a guy who's going to be wanting to do Tate as one of the highest Tate coaches. And we'll see what this organization does. And I think the team will have to feel very confident about the direction

they're in to fork that type of money over. But I think it could be a really, really interesting discussion about a year's time if the team has any hesitation about wanting to pay their head coach as one of the highest paid coaches in the league. Sat, always fun to chat Canucks with you. Sorry about the Browns, but I guess you got Chelsea? Yeah, Chelsea won.

It's hard for my day to get ruined when I wake up and watch Chelsea win. So I'm pretty happy still today. All right, buddy. Glad you had a good weekend and looking forward to hearing you on the station this week. Thanks, fellas. Chat soon. That is Satyar Shah. We're from right here on Sportsnet 650.

Of course, you can hear him in the afternoons on Canucks Central with Richo Satt also doing the pregame, intermissions, postgame coverage. We make Sat work an awful lot here at the station. He's kind enough to come on with us today as well. You're listening to the best of Halford & Brough.