Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 1/30/25

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, plus they talk yesterday's big win over the Preds with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Whoa. Wait a minute. Huh? Hold up. What? Oh, okay. Did we just lose a f***ing Canucks? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da You're listening to Halford and Brough. Bottom of the circle, cuts off the wall through to the back door, they score! Linus Carlson tips it in for his first NHL goal! Sometimes it packs, packs of people, positive people can overcome. There's a very low percentage of this that is smiles and glory hopes. I think if he was going to come, he probably would have come by now.

Good morning Vancouver, 6.01 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday everybody. Jerry Jones made an intro. It is Alfred in his bra. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintex studios and beautiful fairview slopes in Vancouver Jason good morning Good morning, a dog. Good morning. Good morning. Laddie. Good morning Hello, hello and intern Ryan. Good morning as well Good morning, Alfred and bruff in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers They have a friendly knowledgeable staff they can know with anything you're looking for sales Financing service or parts we are in our one of program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal

Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec Footwear and Orthotics, working together with you in step. Three guests today on the program. First hour is all uninterrupted Halbrows. We will look back on Vancouver, Kentucky's big victory in Nashville last night. Guest list begins at seven o'clock. Joshua Cloak from the Athletic NHL writer is going to join the program. We will talk to him about a feature piece he had out last week.

In the NHL, boozing is out Jason. Edible cannabis and video games are in. What? Really? Nice. It's true. So it's just some, the headline is very grabby, but there is some very interesting stuff in the piece about the sort of new style of NHL team bonding, what guys do away from the rink to socialize and to unwind. And the old guys are like, no, no, drink more. Do the stuff that's bad for your body. Drink. So we'll talk to Josh about that at seven o'clock.

Seven thirty Brandon Astle is going to join the program. Abbotsford Canucks play by play man. The Halford and Breft Jinx is alive and well. Yesterday I said, Hey, Abbotsford Canucks are on an eight game win streak. They're in Coachella Valley tonight going for nine. They had a lead going into the third. Let's get Brandon on the show. They lost that game five too. So the eight game win streak is over. However, Abbotsford has vaulted itself back into a playoff spot in the AHL. Been a great last couple weeks for the team. So we'll check in with Brandon Astle about everything that's going on

with the AHL Abbotsford Canucks at 7.30. Eight o'clock, Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk right here on Sportsnet 650. We will look back on the big win last night. Third in a row for the Vancouver Canucks. First time since early November that they've done that. We'll talk to the Drancer about that and everything involving JT Miller and Elias Patterson.

All the latest Thomas Drance will join us at 8 o'clock for that. Only a single giveaway today on the program. We are giving away a pair of tickets to the Clayton Public House and a $50 gift card to the Clayton Public House for the big football game on Sunday, February the 9th. All you got to do is be caller number 9 at 815 this morning. The phone number here 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650. Caller number 9 at 815-815 this morning.

We'll get a pair of tickets and a $50 gift card to the Clayton Public House for the big football game. Working in reverse real quick on the guest list. Eight o'clock Thomas Drance, seven thirty Brandon Astle, seven o'clock Josh Cloak is going to join the program. That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? Oh, what happened?

I missed all the action because I'm missing your life. What happened? You missed be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training.

Visit them online at bccsa.ca. Linus Carlson scored his first ever NHL goal. Vancouver Canucks beat the Preds 3-1 on Wednesday night. Demko 31 saves Hughes to assist. Here's the kicker. The Canucks have won three straight for the first time since November 7th. A span of 40 games and they moved ahead of the Calgary Flames

for the second and final wild card spot in the Western Conference. So back, baby. So back. Okay. The Canucks did open the scoring seven minutes into the first on one of their prettiest goals of the season. So back. After Elias Pedersen, great defensively, perfect positioning as usual,

blocked a shot in his own end and he started a rush with Quinn Hughes and Nils Holglinder. Petey passed it to Hughes, who passed it back to Peaty, who passed it back to Hughes, who passed it to Hoaglander, who made a really nice move to get clean into the slot. Remember the slot? Slot's really important. Got to get to that slot. Slot shots. And he buried it past Soros while Linus Carlson screened the Preds goalie. A lot of good stuff on that goal. Let's see more of that fellas. Now, unfortunately the Preds answered back soon after that goal when Susie tried to pinch in and well, he got caught.

Leaving Juleson back to defend a two on one, which is never a good thing. Demko stopped the original shot, but Tommy Novak was able to bury a big rebound when Pius, well he's not the fastest guy out there, Suter was unable to get back and tie up Novak's stick. Early in the second though, Linus Carlsen, you mentioned it here, scored his first goal in the NHL. Great job by him at the tender age of 25 and just a terrific trade by Jim Benning. What's Jonathan Dahlin doing these days? He over in Sweden?

Yeah. Or maybe. Tyler Myers got the assist with his perfect cross-ice pass to Carlson as the Myers post-suspension resurgence continues. Carlson was standing all by himself beside Soros, but I think I threw this out on social media. Great job by Holglunder and Carlson to keep repositioning themselves around Soros. And I was thinking of what Ray was saying on our

show earlier in the week where he was saying like, it's not always just the guy passing the puck, it's the guys who are receiving the pass, they've got to keep their feet moving. They got to keep moving. What happened was the Preds got caught puck watching when Myers got it on the sideboards and the Preds were like, Myers, this guy's hot. We got to keep moving. Uh, what happened was, uh, the Preds got caught puck watching when Myers got it on the sideboards and the Preds were like, Myers, this guy's hot.

We got to watch him. And they didn't realize that Carlson had moved himself right beside Saros. You know, Myers makes the pass and Carlson is wide open and he puts it in. Hughes, by the way, with another point on the play Pedersen with another plus. Fatshah Demko held on after that and he was probably the biggest story

of the game for the Canucks. Number one, the fact that he got the start when a lot of people were wondering if he'd get another start before the Four Nations break. But, you know, he didn't allow another goal after Carlson scored and made some great saves in the process. The Canucks did not have a great third period. They kind of sat back. He ends up stopping 31 of 32 shots in what was clearly his best start of the season.

And suffice to say, if Demko can find his game, the Canucks have a way better chance of making the playoffs. And in fact, this morning they wake up and they're in that second wild card spot. Now we got Drantz are coming up later on the show and he might say like, yeah, but based on points percentage, Calgary still has it by a bit, but come on Drantz, stop being such a Drantz.

The Canucks are in a second wild card spot right now. Yeah. So I think you're right of the numerous talking points in which we'll get to over the next 20 minutes or so, I think Demko right, of the numerous talking points in which we'll get to over the next 20 minutes or so, I think Demko was the number one story. I was very surprised when I saw Murph tweet out that Demko was gonna be the starter in Nashville last night.

He had lost four of his previous five starts. He was very sharp against the Predators. And here's the key, very sharp to start the game. He turned aside 12 of 13 shots in the first period and I don't know if everyone in Listener Land is aware of this or not but this team collectively has had problems starting games well this season. Goalies are otherwise. So for Demko not just have a strong game but to hold down the forward early that was a big step in the right direction. I want to play some audio now

because he did a walk-off interview with Murph in the aftermath. See if you can pick up some of the interesting nuggets from this one. Here's Thatcher Demko talking to Dan Murphy after a big win in Nashville on Wednesday night. You know I think we've been kind of battling that consistency all year and you know we had some internal meetings about it being that time of year. We got to string some games together here and getting the last three is huge for us so big test last leg of the trip here in Dallas and you know hopefully make it four. I know Nashville hasn't had the season they've wanted but with power play out there they've got a lot of different options

who can really hurt you don't they? Yeah I mean the league's funny that way you know there's so many good players and sometimes it just doesn't go your way one season or another but yeah they got a lot of star power on that first unit and throughout their lineup and obviously they got juice in it solid every night so it's not a team you can take lightly you got to show up and do all the right things. You get the win and you draw the penalty that leads the insurance power play goal which I joke a little bit but just what are the things you want to see more consistently

from your teammates or that you have seen the last few games that have gotten you guys in the right direction? Yeah, I think we've done a really good job just playing connected. You know, playing as five, it goes zone to zone. You know, the quicker we can get back for a breakout and help each other the better and goes through the neutral zone and then on the offensive zone too. So just continue that stuff and obviously special teams is huge. Internal meetings, Thatcher, whatever could you guys be talking about in

those internal meetings, whatever the case, uh, there has been a noted uptake over the last three games in certain areas. It's not a perfect product by any stretch and Taukeet, uh, I won't play the audio of that, but he acknowledged as such in the post game, uh, media availability. Taukeet didn't look super enthusiastic after the game. They relied on their goalie a lot for that one, a lot. And their goalie responded and Tauke did give a tip of the cap to Demko. I said he's a world class elite goalie.

This is what he's going to give you when he's on his game. You know who he was most enthusiastic about? Tyler Myers. Tyler Myers, yeah. His eyes lit up. Yeah. He's such a great guy. He said he loved, I said he loved Myzee.

I love you. I mean, fair enough. He's been loved. He said he loved Myze. I love you. I mean, fair enough. He's been lovable the last few games ever since coming back from suspension. And again, we've had people text into the Dunbar number text message in basket this morning being like, you know, Tyler Myers has been great over the last few games, but is any of this sustainable?

Is any of this sustainable probably goes for the entire team? Because we've been hoodwinked before. I'm trying to straddle that line between, um, you know, optimism, which is always a good thing. And you want to try and be positive despite the general tone of this show. And then the other part of it, which is, well, one, the looming cloud over this team, which is the JT Miller, alias Pedersen situation,

which has been exacerbated by what the president of hockey ops had to say this week. And the fact that for all the good performances this team has had this year, there's been an equal number of bad performances. And I know a three game win streak is good, and I know they haven't done it in a long time. I know you have to go all the way back to November 7th. Again, as I mentioned, a span of 40 games

to find a stretch where they bank points like this, But you got to build somewhere and you got to start with something. And if this is it, if this will be the start of where the team at the very least can put forth consistent efforts and not lay gigantic eggs and stinkers in between, then I'm a happy guy for at least one morning. I do enjoy that this three- game winning streak has made people go over and over and in their heads. What was Jim Rutherford thinking when he did that interview? Was it just,

let's take it as literal, like Jim Rutherford is sitting there, there's no solution, we're gonna try and trade one of these guys. Or was it, you know, a 3D, 4D chess that Jim Rutherford was playing like he was sitting there going, okay, well, trade market isn't very good right now.

We don't love the offers. So he was like laying out how grim it would be, even bringing into the equation, possibly losing Quinn Hughes and saying, listen, like, if we trade one of these guys, we're going to have to get a center back, but it's probably not going to be a good center. It might even be like a three C. I mean, he went all the way to pretty much, we were like, the team's going to suck for the next couple of years, right? Like he-

Repair is phrasing it this way. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. But like you went that far- I don't think he said suck, but like, I don't know. Aw man, things are going to be bad. He's like, well, it's not going to be bad for me because I'm probably going to just retire.

But you guys are going to be stuck with this awful team to the point where he whipped up such anger and frustration among certainly our show and a lot of the fans. Like, was that his whole point where people were going to shame Elias Pedersen and JT Miller into figuring out a solution for this?

Yeah, who knows what his MO was with the entire thing. Shame is a powerful motivator. It's true. That's how I was raised. Yeah. Shame, shame. And I turned out great. Look at him now.

You're Catholic too? Look at the heights that he's reached. Again, all I know is that there was an intentionality with what Rutherford was doing. There was very, there was no mincing of words. There was no ambiguity. He was laying it out, he was laying it bare for all to see. And I wouldn't be surprised if part of the MO with that was,

hey, we've reached everyone's breaking point. Maybe everyone's low point. Let's just be bold and let's just throw it all out there. And here's the thing, maybe he didn't know what the end game was gonna be. Maybe it was like a choose your own adventure, but let's see what happens here. But you gotta do something at that point.

I think that might've been his mentality on this because here's the other side of the coin. Yesterday in Nashville, JT Miller was approached by Preds reporters, not Canucks reporters because there's none of them on the road. Preds reporters asking about Jim Rutherford's recent remarks and if he had any response to them.

The back and forth was kind of testy and if he had any response to them. The back and forth was kind of testy and rather brief. Here it is now, JT Miller speaking to the Nashville media about what Jim Rutherford had to say to the Globe and Mail earlier this week. What's your reaction to Jim Rutherford's comments yesterday or this week on the situation with UNPD? I don't know. You don't have any comments?

No. Is there still all good between you two guys? I have no comment. I got nothing. I didn't think JT Miller had his best game. I think he did win an important face off at the end of the game. But overall, didn't notice him, certainly as much as some other players out there. I did think Pedersen had a good game. It looked like he was trying to do what the coaching staff has been telling him

to do and that's move his feet, have some energy with the puck, hold onto pucks, make plays, again, that first goal that he was actively involved in was one of the nicest goals I've seen the Canucks score all season. So, you know, I think that was promising. But you also have to consider the opponent, like Nashville has not been a very good team this year. And the previous opponent, St. Louis, they're likely to miss the playoffs this season. And, you know, after that Canucks game, it was deemed that they were such a problem that, and we mentioned this yesterday, but Brandon Saad

was put on waivers and the team got bag skated. I mean, people in St. Louis were not happy with that, with that performance by the Blues, trying not to take credit away for the Canucks, but let's set up, let's set up their, their schedule, before they go into the four nations break, when some things could happen, you know, that's a long time for guys to start talking trades. I don't know if there are any rules, roster freezes during the four nations, but you know, it's still time to, for things to be discussed.

Um, so Friday they play in Dallas against a very good stars team, but is Heiskenen hurt? Is, I mean, he did. Well, he got hurt. They still don't have word on what the, uh, medical diagnosis is yet. Yeah. Heiskenen.

Okay. Well. Stars of one three straight, including two over Vegas. Now they're home after that for two games against Detroit and Colorado. And then they go down to San Jose to play the sharks.

And then their last game before the four nations break is at home on a Saturday versus the Toronto Maple Leafs. Four o'clock start on that one guys, four o'clock start. Hope you don't get too angry with that. Um, so, you know, I did think it was interesting, but also kind of entertaining that when that Jim

Rutherford interview first came out, it was like, bombshell, this is crazy. He's actually saying all this and, you know, the immediate reaction was obvious. Like, you know, for us, for me, it was like, trade both these guys. But now that it's been out there for a while and people have been able to, you know, mull it around in their brains and, you know, media guys have come on and said things like this.

Have you heard this? Like Jim Rutherford never does anything without intention. You know? And then people are like, oh, okay, well, what's his intention? Is he playing a different game here? Maybe he's so out of answers that this is him trying to galvanize the team around something and maybe it's galvanizing it around disdain for management. I don't know, like the Preds last season, the team that Canucks just played,

they canceled a concert and everyone was like, there's your turnaround, right? Sure, St. Louis Blues and they won the Stanley Cup they were a dead last team in the NHL and they had a fight in practice and that flipped everything around. Sometimes those flashpoints happen. Here's where I'm gonna tap the brakes on that even though I said after a three-game winning streak we are so so back. This is not my theory by the way. My I just want to throw that out there that a lot of people are saying about it and I have time to hear it, but I still think like, they're probably gonna need to do something.

Yeah. Because the last three games, while great and fun at times, I mean, and Brandon in Vancouver, kudos to you for texting in exactly what I was gonna say in this moment. I think the biggest difference between winning and losing in those three games wasn't necessarily what the players did on the ice was the goaltending was exceptional. Like Lankton was solid, rock solid in his two starts.

I say he was great against Washington on Saturday night. Demko was fantastic last night. That was the sort of vintage Demko performance that you didn't get in that previous stretch where he lost four or five starts. So I don't think that, you know, there's, I don't think there's any correlation between what the president of hockey ops had to say to the Globe and Mail and then what the guys have done on the ice over the last few games.

I still think that there's going to be an element of what's in the room is broken and it's not going to be fixed. And it's a bit naive to suggest that wins are gonna fix it because the issue between Miller and Pedersen has gone on for so long. And I think the key to the Globe and Mail interview was that Rutherford acknowledged that they're not gonna fix it.

And in the subsequent followup article, Gary Mason had another one in the Globe and Mail, and we can get into that on the other side of the break as well, he kind of dove a little bit deeper, Jim Rutherford that is, as to specifically what the club has done to try and fix it. Like, you know, the talk it has been tasked

and might be a correlation between how exasperated he's looked at times this year to how much he's probably had to spend and expend a lot of energy working on an interpersonal relationship. Yeah, Rutherford basically said meeting after meeting after meeting with these players, trying to figure it out. Right. So imagine like an NHL head coach who has a laundry list of things that he needs to

get accomplished. You know, there's 23 guys on the roster. You've got to do a variety of things, meetings with your own coaches, and then you've got to take a lot of extra time and effort and energy to try and mend fences between two guys. Which is why there's been speculation out there and I've certainly wondered it.

I have no reason to believe it or believe it not, but like, I wonder if, if Taukett isn't back next season, is it his decision as opposed to the Canucks with all the stuff? Like if you're, if you're a head coach and Taukett isn't back next season, is it his decision as opposed to the Canucks? Yeah. With all the stuff, like if you're, if you're a head coach and Taukett would want a big contract extension, right? With term, lots of money, but also a chance to win. And if he's having all these constant conversations with these two players, like he's a grade six elementary school teacher.

Yeah. You know, and I don't know if he brought in the parents or anything like that, but, you know, it's one of those things where they, can I go to battle with these guys? Like I want to win a Stanley Cup. I don't want to just get to the playoffs, you know, can I win a cup with these guys? Can I compete with these guys on my team? And if not, I might have value somewhere else. And I could tell a pretty good story, coach of the year. And then, you know, my players were, well, you know what the players were. It's out there and like, give me a job with guys that are all committed

and all in the same team. I don't care if they all love each other, but they have to work well together. And I think I can do some good things. I mean, I think that question was answered with what Rutherford said this week. Because I'm pretty sure that at a certain point, the major task masters in the organization, let's say the big three, Rutherford, Alveon, and Tauke.

And they would obviously be intimately familiar with this situation. And you would think at a certain point, the three of them were like, okay, this isn't getting resolved. We've tried, we put in a lot of time and effort. And at a certain point the three of them are like, okay, this isn't getting resolved. We've tried, we put in a lot of time and effort. And at a certain point you're just chasing, you know, bad energy with worse energy trying to fix it.

So I still like, I'm with you on this. I, you know, unless it's something in the neighborhood of a 20 game winning streak where they're like, well, we can't break this thing up now. We're on pace to set an NHL record. You know, it always comes back to the same. It's like, don't be fooled by the mirage. Don't be fooled by a small sample size or a heater or anything. Understand that there's a big issue here and it does need to be fixed. That's where I think that it was just a breaking point thing more than anything else.

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for, sales, financing, service or parts. We are in hour three of the program. As the music suggests, Thomas Drance from The Athletic is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour three. Hour three of this program is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell & Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell-Pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec Footwear and Orthotics working together

with you and Step. To the phone lines we go go Thomas Drance joins us now on the Haliford and Brush show on Sportsnet 650. What up Drance? Good morning gentlemen. Good game last night for the Vancouver Canucks third win in a row. I noticed that on your answer didn't love it. He didn't love it. He didn't love the performance. He liked the breakout. I know that. Third period. He liked the breakout. Yeah. Let's start glass half full. But like, but also, I mean, we shouldn't be that excited about a breakout. And there's the glass half empty. No, we shouldn't, right? Like we obviously shouldn't.

We know this, right? Look, we spent the first half hour of the program. Dissing that one breakout? No, no, no. The general sense of, oh, we're so back and kind of poking fun at it, right? Like, I understand. I mean, look, I think it was me maybe or was you, I can't remember who said it was very early in the morning. But then she was like the number one storyline, I think for these, the three and winning streak is how good the goaltending has been, right? Like maybe the performances aren't that different thangame winning streak is how good the goaltending has been right? Like maybe the performances aren't that different than some of the losses But the goaltending has been real good and that's the reason they've won three in a row dead on

That's it. That's it. You nailed it. Like, you know, you'll remember I was on last week This team is not playing Because what they won one of eight when I did this hit last week and I was saying look like there's a lot of reasons to believe that they're not playing as bad as their results, but when you have bad vibes and no offensive juice, I'm not gonna cut you a ton of slack and They've had an awful lot go right across these last three games You know like for example, they played 30 minutes of tied hockey on this three game win streak. They've been out shot, but they're outscoring their opponents

for nothing in tied game states. It's like, okay, that's because of 950 goal tending and 22% shooting. And this is instructive because this team plays coin flip hockey. Like this team plays coin flip hockey and they're 50-50 to win every game. And they're 50-50 to win games, by the way, against the best teams in the league and the worst teams in the league, right? Because they don't really generate a ton

and they don't really control play. But man, if they get good goaltending, they're shooting well and if they get a couple breaks like if Justin Barron's hitting posts and you know that Tucker guy on the blues is getting goals ruled off for goaltender interference like man they're gonna look real good and and so that's it that's it and that's instructed because that's big picture what we've seen from this group for six years. They get a run of goaltending, a great run of goaltending.

They get a great run of finishing luck. They get both. Oh boy, we're talking, but they're not really making their own luck. They're not creating an environment where they're more likely on a durable level to outscore their opponents. It's coin flip hockey.

And frankly, I think that's the best way to view what we've seen, the frustrations, the perception going up and down, all the noise, like all of this stuff. It's like, yeah, they play coin flip hockey. They just haven't been good enough, durably enough. That's true this season.

That's been true for six years Is your sleeping giant theory dead? No, I don't think it's dead because and to be clear The the sleeping giant theory was a theory that you had to buy if the connects were gonna be deadline buyers that's how I presented it, but but I don't think it's completely dead because But, but I don't think it's completely dead because there is still a world where you get 920 Thatcher Demko. Like there is still a world where Thatcher Demko finds his form, right, and becomes, you know, Connor Hellebuck West.

Right? Like that's something we've seen him do repeatedly. He's an incredibly high level player and an incredibly talented player. This team gets the Apex-Thatcher-Demko performance over the latter 32 games of the season. Yeah, they can reel in LA, right? Like they can reel in LA. I don't know that they can go much higher than that in the standings, but they could be a not wild card team that enters the playoffs. I think the, you know, serious fly in the ointment is the part of Jim Rutherford's interview with Gary Mason where he says, to some extent, every time we seem like the characterization of this is a whack-a-mole issue. The idea that there's always going to be another national game,

there's always going to be another thing that happens that precipitates an issue in the locker room strongly suggests to me that the Canucks could win four of their next six before this four Nations break. And this very aggressive management team might still be looking to subtract from the group. So that's the fly in the ointment here is the Canucks actually getting worse in terms of their true talent level on the roster. I think that sort of limits the ceiling of the sleeping giant theory.

But that said, if you were able to make the deal and the deal's for a puck moving defenseman, and you're able to find a decent middle six center to replace one of the star guys that they go. Yeah, okay. Then, then I might be interested again. I mean, this team does play pretty good defense. And if you do have exceptional goaltending with pretty good defense, you know, I don't think you, I don't think you can win 16 playoff games with that, but a few things line up,

a few things go your way. We've sort of seen this team, um, show some ability to be clutched to sort of manufacture pretty incredible moments in the postseason. I think that matters. Uh, so yeah, I mean, you put those three things together. You can punch well above your weight in the playoffs and down the stretch. But there's a lot that needs to go their way. And I do think the Demco side of this, I mean, he was great last night, right? Like that wasn't just a good goaltending performance because a lot of the time we talk about good goaltending performances and it's bad shooting.

Like I thought Nashville shooters played well. I thought Nashville, especially in that third period had a lot of chances. I didn't think Vancouver played well in the third period. It wasn't a suffocate them and like like that was a Demko win. And man if he's playing like that, like if that's a sign of things to come or a sign of a player getting in rhythm, you get that and then if the team either doesn't make a deal or makes a series of the right deals. Yeah. I still think there's a fair bit of talent on this roster.

I still think this is at least, you know, a top 18 in the last with upside beyond that if, if Demko's on his game. Um, Durant, if I recall correctly and correct me if I'm wrong here, you always leaned on the side of we should probably keep Hughes and Horonik together as a pair. The connects have split them in the last little while. I can't remember when it started. Everything's a bit of a daze to me, but Hughes and Myers and Myers have been getting a lot of, you know, for his last two games have been really good. Yeah, his play roll.

Is this, is splitting Hughes and Hronik, is that their, is that their best chance? I don't know. I, you're still leaving some on the table. So Myers and Hughes have outscored the opposition 17 to 8 as a pair, so far, which is very good. So you're not losing that many clicks off your fastball to stabilize what you're getting from Carson Sousi, who's had a very up and down season

after being excellent, obviously, throughout last year. So I suppose the thing is, I guess, here's the problem that I'm running into Jason with it is you are taking clicks off your fastball. You're not controlling play as well. You're not generating as many shots. You're not generating as many scoring chances. But you're adding to your meatball. You are adding to your meatball.

Like you're, you're well, one of your pairs in the, you know, like if there's a fastball and there's a meatball. You're fattening your lineup. Yes. Yes, you're fattening your lineup. Yeah. Okay. If there's a fastball and there's a meatball. Yes. Yes, you're fattening your line. Yeah. Okay.

If there's a fastball and a meatball, so you're adding to your meatball, you're limiting the downside of those other minutes. Okay. Fair. But the thing is, is this team doesn't score enough, like this team doesn't score enough. So if you're reducing your top of the lineup gear,

I worry that that, like it looks great when you've won three in a row and are, you know, scoring on one of every five shots you take in a score tied game state. But as that sample expands, if you're taking clicks off of what you're able to do with Quinn Hughes on the ice, are you going to be able to score enough? Or, you know, when we reach the pointy end of this, is this going to be a series of games where the Canucks generate 16 to 20 shots and score, you know, 1.4 goals in, in the games that really matter, whether that's in the playoffs or, or on their way to them. Um,

my guess is, is that this increases the chances of those offensive outages lasting for a longer period of time, right? That, that, that would be my strong suspicion. You're not always going to get Joel Hofer, uh, you know, whiffing on the pew suitor rush chance, short-handed, right? Like that's not, that's not something you can lean on here. And, uh, you know, the, the other wins were two, one wins where it really, really could have gone either way. Um, that's, and that's with, like,

that's with the wind that this team's back. That's not enough. That's not enough. So does he, look, I don't think you mess with the winning lineup. You've got three professional efforts in a row out of a group that I don't know has strung together three professional efforts all season.

I like that the most about what we saw last night. You would have completely understood if the Canucks had played with a funky vibe yesterday, they didn't credit to them. But I'm not looking at this as having like, I don't know that the club has stumbled on something that's unlocked anything because they're not playing all that well. They're winning coin flip games. And I still think at the end of the day, the best version of this team has used in Huronic because that's the version of this team that's most likely to score enough. Okay. Let's talk about the other two. Miller and Petey, have you whipped up a drancy intake on Jim

Rutherford's interview with Gary Mason or do you just take what Jim Rutherford said at his word and there hasn't been a solution so far, so they're going to explore trades. No, I mean, I think this was pretty calculated. Um, you know, my take on Canucks talk was that this reminds me a fair bit of when Canucks season stabilized under Bruce Boudreaux. And then Jim Rutherford went on 650 and talked about the structure and,

and his disappointment with how the team was playing, uh, sort of salting the earth, creating a situation where I look like we're going to do what's right and I'm willing to take a PR black eye to do it. And I'm going to make sure that there's organizational pressure, both on the coach, but also in terms of what ownership thinks we need to do here. Like we can't, this isn't tenable and I'm not going to be fooled from what we think is necessary by a dead cat bounce wind streak in November. I think he was getting out ahead of that. Um, you know, I think the fact that it's Gary Mason is certainly interesting, right? Who, who got these quotes, um, you know, given that we know he's got close links to Canucks ownership. And, and I think this is effectively, you know, a, you manage expectations on the return,

B, level with your fans a bit. Right? C, I think you create an environment where it's like, hey, we're not going back here. Like this is something that's real. This is something that's happening. This is something we need to do if we're going to get our team over the top. And it doesn't matter if we win four in a row or five in a row or, you know, are safely in a playoff spot by the time of the four nations break. Like this is something we need to do for the good of the organization. And by saying it, I'm going to get out ahead of it. So I think those were most likely what was accomplished.

And frankly, it's a playbook we've seen, which just adds heft to how strongly I think that that's what was happening. So for the record- Is that a drance intake? Is that sufficiently drance in? Yeah. But for the record, we did ask Gary, you know, basically, I don't know if you heard him on our show, but we said, Gary, look, let's cut to the chase here.

You're known as the guy that knows Francesco Accolini. Have you talked to him recently? He said, no. And he kind of pushed back. He said, I've heard some theories, and maybe it was yours, about this being maybe orchestrated.

And he was like, look, it was simple. Like I thought this was an interesting story. I reached out to the Canucks. They set me up with Jim Rutherford and I wrote the story. So- Oh, well, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I mean, that's not how this stuff works. I'm not saying it was like planted and on and on, but there's a reason why Jim Rutherford was willing to go there that

explicitly and on record. Yeah. I think there's something to be said about it going into the Globe and Mail for sure. Um, and with, and with Gary Mason, um, a guy that, that paper of record, yeah, the paper of record. Oh God, it's too secrecy to say that, but. True.

But was there anything else that stood out to you in that interview? Honestly, the one that I keep coming back to is just the idea of this being intractable, the idea of this being something that we feel is contained and every time we feel it's contained, it's not, right? The idea that there's always going to be, you know, idea of this being something that we feel is contained and every time we feel it's contained, it's not right. The idea that there's always going to be, you know, and I think about this in the

context of Luongo a lot, right? Where like there was always going to be another heritage classic, right? Like it didn't matter for Luongo in Vancouver. There was always going to be another heritage classic. There was always going to be another, be another game five or game four versus LA or game three versus San Jose. Like this was all, it was always going to be another one. Yeah. Right. It didn't matter. There was no real world where he could have stayed at Canuck because there was always going to be another moment like this. And you know, I think we've

all had those situations, been in those situations, been in those situations with people over the course of our lives, like there's always going to be another one. And that just rang so in that rang out in such a familiar way to me that that, you know, I felt empathetic to the team over it. But also I just felt like it was instructive that, yeah, this is a this is a powder cake This is something that's Not going to be able to be fixed. This is not one of those things. We're winning salsas. Who's your trigger? Dran's is a Dodd. Who's my?

We were laughing we were laughing It's mediocre hockey. That's what triggers me, man. That's your trigger. There's always going to be another shortcut. There's always going to be another shortcut that drives me nuts. In covering this connecting, that might be it. We were joking, uh, earlier in the show and, um, talking about, um, how everyone feels like they

can comment on this situation because everyone has that toxic relationship in their life that they've either had to deal with or they're still dealing with it. Some people might not have a say on, do you think they should split Hughes and Horonic? But if you bring in something like a toxic relationship, they're like, I have something to say about this. You can't imagine the texts that we've got in from people talking about their work environment or their family environment. I mean, it just, I think it just like, you know, with some people, you just like, you can't change them and they're almost your complete opposite.

And every instinct that they've got is the opposite to the one that you've got. And there's just a philosophical difference that you cannot get and there's just a philosophical difference that you cannot get around. Yeah, yeah and it's like neither guy's the good guy, you know what I mean? But it filters through and people talk about it as if it's you know tectonic or ancient or there's like these icons like the bully right the sensitive one and it's like obviously it's not as simple as that but it's easy to filter it

through a very familiar lens and relate to one side or the other and on and on and so yeah I think there is an element of there's an element to which this is universal and and and as a result feels bigger, gains more traction, it is more interesting and elemental to us. And I think that's completely fair and you're right. I think that's a point well made and a point well taken. But also I do think that this is specific and I do think that this is becoming not completely unique, not completely unique because every now and

then we get like a Carlson Hoffman situation or a, or a, you know, Blake Wheeler, who was the jet that Blake Wheeler didn't get along with. All of them. Wow. I mean, Shafely, Lionel. Lionel, Shafely. Lionel, Lionel was the word I was looking for. Blake, Blake Wheeler, Patrick Lionel thing. So we get those on occasion.

All of them. But so it's not completely unique, but it's certainly, it's certainly got some unique elements, specifically with, you know, it being now completely laid bare prior to the deal, right? Usually we get the deal and then we get this, right? This is totally different. The real unique part for me is that seemingly every party involved with this kerfuffle, aside from the two main protagonists, has addressed it and acknowledged it

and admitted that it's real. But the two guys right at the center of it are like, nope, nothing to see here, nor will we speak on it publicly. What do you think? That one to me is, that's intriguing and unique. What do you think the first media avail back in Vancouver is going to be like? And also, do you think Rutherford might have timed it?

So the interview Gary said took place on Monday. Correct. Right? Is there any chance that the Connex timed it because they were on the road and they knew that there wouldn't be much media, Vancouver media or anything? They had to deal with that Savage Nashville media yesterday.

Oh yeah, people are like, the camera's too close to JT Miller, it's invasive. I think they got a zoom function. Or the, or the close to J.T. Miller, it's invasive. You gotta zoom function. Or the, or the, uh. Zoom function. Yeah. Or the, um, or the, what was it, the, uh, missing curfew pod had the tweet that was like,

what do you expect him to say? And it's like, so he shouldn't have been asked? Yeah. That was the biggest story in hockey. Yeah, definitely don't ask. Just ignore it altogether. Yeah. It's like, our podcast has filled six hours

with this story across the last two months, but why are you asking him? Cause you want to know. Yeah. Anyway, the, uh, yeah, look, so it's, it's a weird one too, because the team gets back and plays Saturday or sorry, Sunday against Detroit, but not at a normal time. So there won't be a morning skate. Like it's a 5pm game on Sunday at Roger's or you know,

when the connects return home. So it's not, there's not going to be a morning skate. There's usually a window when a game is at five to talk to players about two hours before the game, but that's not cameras. That's like an informal, you know, that's, that's an informal, like I don't even usually take advantage of it unless I really, really need like a final quote for a story and have been like trying to get a guy at practice and it hasn't worked out for whatever reason. Like it's not even an availability window

I usually use. I don't know if we'll even use it for this because that doesn't really serve anyone, right? Like this is not a quiet side conversation topic typically. This is like, these guys are gonna be so uncomfortable about it and we know that, but there's enough interest and it's fair game given the commentary of the GM for them to make some kind of statement, you know, scrum front of the room on camera. Is that gonna happen post game? I mean, it might be a post game thing.

In any event, it's not a post game thing in any event. It's not, it's not straightforward because the timing is not straightforward. I do think both guys will be asked by local media. I do think they have to be like they have to be, you know, it's, it's not something anyone wants to do. It's something that absolutely has to happen. It's the biggest story in the sport right now. It's the biggest trade story in the sport right now, a month out from the deadline. Like, what are we doing? Of course they're gonna be asked.

And yeah, what do I expect? I don't know. I think the outright denials, you know, I'm fascinated to know, because we had the huge, it was so interesting when we had the huge talkie dynamic of them sort of noting that it was a fair question and not denying it by any means. And then both players denied it outright.

Um, and now, and now Rutherford's come out and confirmed it. And those players have been put in a tough spot because they've been revealed to have been, you know, less than honest. And I always think that's the worst thing that you can be. Like, I always think that that's the thing you want to avoid the most as a player or as a spokesperson of any kind. You don't want to be, you don't want to be revealed to be the emperor with no clothes at any point. You can issue a no comment. No comments. Fine. No comment. No comment is perfect.

The one that's perfect. I don't want to comment on that. And comment's fine. No comment. No comment is perfect. The one that's perfect. I don't want to comment on that and I won't. The thing that was beyond the pale for me was both guys saying that it was made up. Right. Well, so that's what I'm saying. Yeah. And like whether or not it is, like I get it. You know, if I was in that situation, right?

Someone, if I was in that situation, it's like I either own up to this situation that's annoying and I'm annoyed by it. I'm annoyed by it in real life. I feel like it's beneath me that it's still a thing, but it is still a thing, but it's a media situation. I get it. I get it. I just think whether it's a no comment or whether it's a, you know, you're not going

to be best friends with any of your teammates, but I believe in our team. I believe in JT as a player. I believe we can win together and we've been working on it. Easy. You know, like it's not, it's not a huge soundbite. It's, it's not, it's not a huge sound bite. It's not headline news, but it's like something easy you can say quickly that acknowledges it while minimizing the issue.

And then when you come back to it, it's like, yeah, we're working on it, it didn't work. Yeah, yeah. Like throw your hands up. But I just, you know, I do think it's important when you've got a persona and a profile like that, to avoid this moment, to avoid this moment where it's like, hey, so that thing you said that was clearly untrue, what do you have to follow up and say about that? Like that's a tough one.

You should ask that exact same question. Yeah. Clip it, phrase it. And have your phone out real tight on Pedersen's face. Yeah. I'd say that I'd say at this point, I'd say real tight, yeah, and zoom in. And, uh, no, but I would say at this point, I

would say at this point, there is no benefit to either player commenting. I would, at this point, you know, comment. I think the last time there was ways to politically acknowledge and minimize. at this point, you know, comment. I think the last time there was ways to politically acknowledge and minimize. And now I think you're, you're stuck with no comment without question. Drancer, great stuff as always, but thanks for doing this. We appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the week. We'll do this again next Thursday. Cheers boys. See you. Thomas Drance

from the Athletic Vancouver here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.