Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 1/6/25

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at a busy weekend in sports, they chat Friday's Canucks shutout loss to the Preds, they talk about the trade noise swirling around JT Miller & Elias Pettersson, plus they preview tonight's 'Nucks road matchup in Montreal with Canucks Central host Satiar Shah. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da Oh my, it was checked, here's Lankenberg cutting in, center is shot by Nyquist, whoa, by Lankenberg with the left hand. Nyquist can't believe it. It was great playing here, but I'm opening the door tonight. I'm out, bro. Sucky, Sucky. It was a Sucky weekend in terms of sports day with a Sucky, a bunch of Sucks that never suck.

And I'll thank you guys, you come to the show every day, you just suck. Good, Barney MacGoover morning Vancouver 601, and Monday, happy Monday everybody. It is Halford, it is Brough, it is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studios in beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Hey dog, good morning to you. Good morning. Regular Zach, good morning to you as well. Good morning.

Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, be it sales, financing, service or parts. We are also in hour one of this program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling, Vancouver's premier metal recycler. Well, they pay the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. And we are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider,

powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Soraphi, what are you waiting for? Kintec, we got a lot to get into on the show today. We have a bunch of stuff to cover from the weekend. We have a bunch of guests to talk to. It's a Kinect's game night on Amazon Prime. So we got a lot to talk about here. Guest list begins at six thirty.

Eric Engel Sportsnet Montreal is going to join us. It is the Canucks. It is the Habs for 30. Note the start time from Montreal tonight on Amazon Prime. Of course, you can hear everything right here on Sportsnet 650. The Habs are red hot, red hot Habs. They have won games on the road in the last week and a half against Vegas, Tampa Bay, Florida and Colorado. The last four Stanley Cup champions. The Habs have beat them all in their own barns. Now they get to go home to Montreal.

Just in time for the Canucks. So we'll talk to Eric Engels about that at 630. 7 o'clock Mike Tanier our NFL insider. Two deep zones, sub stack, NFL regular season. It's in the books. That's it for football, man. We only got the post season left. Tampa Bay and Denver clinched the last two playoff spots yesterday.

That was a bad final weekend. Yep, a lot of people complaining. Trying to make the best of Tampa Bay or Atlanta not choking and then just like, okay, I guess this game for seeding between the Vikings and the Lions and it was a bad game. Denver with a nail biting 38 to nothing win to clinch its playoff spot. Detroit locked in the number one seed in the NFC.

We'll talk to Mike about all that at seven o'clock, 7 30 Adnan. Virk is going to join the program. He of course is working for Amazon. In Montreal covering the game tonight. I believe he is going to be speaking to Rick Tauke it this morning either before our show Or if not after our show, so we'll talk to Adnan set up tonight's game from live from Montreal And then at 8 o'clock Satyar Shah is going to join the program So get this today because of the start time on sportsnet 650 we have Canucks talk

With Dranson Dodd from 12 to 2 Canucks central with satin Dan from 2 to 3 Canucks pregame show from 3 to 4 30 puck drop at 4 30 with Batch and Randy post game show Takes you through to 9 o'clock. That's count them up 9 consecutive uninterrupted hours of Canucks coverage It's too much really you can think about it. You can only get it here on Sportsnet 650. It's just a hockey team. The lifeblood of this station. There's a pickleball show at the end though. Josh is doing a pickleball show from 9 to 10. Yeah, okay, so that's what's happening on the program today. Let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened?

What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca We go all the way back to Friday night, a game Jason Brough was in attendance for. Steve Stamcoz scored the eventual game winner late in the second period. Uc Saros, 27 saves for the shutout. The Preds blanked the Canucks 3-0 on Friday night at Rogers Arena. So maybe it was just the fact that I was there, had pretty good seats and I was enjoying the night that I thought it was actually a pretty good game for the first part of it.

Each team had chances and I was right in front of Lankenen and saw him make some incredible saves and at the other side, Yussi Saros made some spectacular saves. But the game went from fairly entertaining in my opinion, at least, to extremely frustrating after the Preds opened the scoring late in the second on a three on two rush that Steven Stamkos finished off. That goal started when Sherwood fell down as the third man high on the four check and that's never a good thing. Now, Breezeboi tried to help Sherwood out,

but it was a bad gamble because he couldn't get the puck deep and it set the Preds off to the races against Vincent De Arnay. Yada, yada, yada. Forsberg fed Stamkos for a one-timer that one, De Arnay couldn't block and two, Kevin Lankinen couldn't stop. So it's one-nothing Preds and in a vacuum, the goal shouldn't have been the end of things, but the Canucks missing a few key players as we all know. Quinn Hughes and Elias Pedersen couldn't crack UC Saros who was very good on the night and that was despite controlling most of the third period the Canucks did at least. The Preds added a couple of empty netters and that was it.

JT Miller shouldered a lot of the criticism after the game. He did have some chances, including a breakaway, but the puck just isn't going in for him right now. In fact, the last time he actually beat a goalie, not counting the shootout was all the way back on October 26th

versus the Penguins. He does have a couple of goals, but they were both empty netters since then, October 26th versus the Penguins, the last time JT Miller. It's last year. Man. And he said, clearly I'm a little snakebit right now, and he said, the hard thing is you

don't want to try too much. I always find that the easiest thing. Trying is you don't want to try too much. I always find that the easiest thing. Trying too much? Is not to try too much. Not trying too much. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I find that the easiest thing. It's fun too.

The easiest thing is not to try too much. And he said, you have to kind of let the game come to you, get on the inside and score some ugly goals. And I think get on the inside is a message for the entire team Not that JT Miller is trying to send it. I'm trying to send it because Watching that game. I was like is anyone going to get on the inside and get some chances or is it? Constantly just gonna go back to the point and they're gonna try some sort of wild shot on goal Hope for a tip. Hope for a bounce, hope for a screen.

Like I get it. That's how goals, a lot of goals are scored in the NHL, but it can't be the only way. It just can't be. You have to have something else in your arsenal. And right now it's, it reminds me of, well, frankly, all seasons remind me of the playoffs. Like, you know, like how hard it was for the Canucks to generate quality chances. Sometimes just shots on goal. Just get a shot on goal.

A lot of it is just, all right, defer back to the point, you know, try and get one through all the bodies and hopefully it'll go in. And it's just, it's and hopefully it'll go in. And it's just, it's not enough. It's not enough right now. It was hard getting shots for them on the power play when they had a man advantage. There was the two in the third period.

They failed to record a shot on that in either. And you're right, everything is a slog right now. Everything is a struggle. Everything is, there's real team candidate the world juniors vibes. Maybe not necessarily. I was gonna say that. I was gonna say that juniors vibes maybe not necessarily who's gonna say that Serious style of play, but it's just like you're just gritting your teeth and you're like This is tough to watch. It's really slow

It's predictable but not in the good Rick talk and predictable way The game was pretty quick actually to start but that when it when it when it slogs Yeah, just like oh my god, like they had chances to beat Soros. Garland had an amazing chance. He really should have scored and Soros was good, but that's, that's not enough, right? That's not enough to just be like, Hey, there was that one chance that they had was really good. I mean, JT Miller had a breakaway that he couldn't score on early to, but I

thought it was going to be a tone center, but I think the frustrating thing was when they fell down one nothing Against Nashville and playing at home It looks so difficult to create chances and Nashville isn't exactly the old Barry Trotz Nashville they can't I mean it well How many goals do they give up in the last in the games the preceding? I will say that was UC Saros is for shut out of the year which puts him second in the NHL I believe but he has like 13 wins or something like that and for vice yeah Donny is Donny and new West Texan on the Dunbar Lumber

text line shots on goal would be nice if they could hit the net I swear they missed the net more than any team in the NHL yeah and sometimes they seem like it seems like it's intentional like they're taking an angle on the shot. And it's just, man, it's, it's, it's tough to watch. And looking ahead to this road trip, let's talk a little bit about this road trip because it starts tonight in Montreal, where you kind of mentioned the Habs have improved all the way to NHL 500 with seven wins in their last nine tries.

And we'll talk to Eric Engels about that. How are they doing that? NHL 500 with seven wins in their last nine tries. And we'll talk to Eric Engels about that. How are they doing that? Uh, and then it gets a lot harder after that with stops in Washington Wednesday, Carolina Friday, and Toronto Saturday before the con, uh, the trip concludes Tuesday in Winnipeg. So Montreal's the easy one on the road trip and the

Habs are red hot. And then Washington, the surprise team of the NHL, I would say. Carolina, Friday, and then back to back, Toronto, Saturday. And then the best team in the NHL, that's how the Canucks end their trip next Tuesday. Canucks are going to be underdogs in all five of those games.

Yes. They were significant underdogs actually, if you looked at the betting line against Nashville at home because of all the guys that they're missing and their form. If Hughes and Pederson aren't ready to go tonight against Montreal, they'll be underdogs against the Habs. And frankly, even if they were ready to go, they might be underdogs.

It sounds like Hughes is more likely to play than Pedersen tonight. Both the guys practiced, but it was Hughes who was more involved in the special teams practice, i.e. the power play. So a lot of people thought, okay, well that, that might be a signal that he's more ready to go. Um, also of note from the practice yesterday,

Thatcher Demko practiced with teammates for about 20 minutes on Sunday before departing and yielding the crease to minor league call up Archer Silov. So I'm just reading that right off the article from Ian McIntyre. If you want to read that it's up on sportsnet.ca. Who knows when Demko will be back, but hopefully it's soon given the games this week and the fact that there is a back to back in there.

Yeah. I mean, you would hope that especially, I mean, it's the Friday, Saturday, Carolina, Toronto, which is going to be extremely difficult given you're on the road. You've got to travel in between. You're going to need two goalies in those ones. Cause you do run the risk of like burning out Lankton if you're going to play them excessively over the next little bit. By the way, friendly reminder, before we move on to the other news of the weekend 830 this morning our time 1130 Eastern the Canucks are gonna skate at the Bell Center for their morning skate and then Rick Taukett's gonna meet with the media for his usual meat availability. The only reason I mentioned that is we'll probably get word if Quinn Hughes is gonna play tonight. Right what did you

think of JT Miller's game on Friday? It was there. Well, you had chances, right? You had chances. I wasn't as, I wasn't as upset as some people seem to be. I saw a lot of people, a lot of people on social media in particular using the phrase checked out when they came to JT Miller. I didn't think that was fair or accurate. I didn't see that.

I thought he had his skating legs early on in the game, but I think it's a lot of, it's like he has these bursts of energy and then the energy just goes away and he could be out there just totally straight legged. Anecdotal. Or he'll just like, he'll take like a weird shift, right? He'll go crazy and then just like halfway through the shift at a totally weird time in the shift he'll just be, he'll take like a weird shift, right? He'll go crazy and then just like halfway through the shift at a totally weird time in the shift, he'll just be like, I'm changing.

Anecdotally, I don't believe there's a day that goes by now where I'm not asked, Hey, what's going on with JT Miller? Yeah. Every day now, every day I run into either someone I know or someone that comes up and introduces themselves every day. I mean, we talk about body language with this team way more than we should, but

JT Miller's body language sometimes is off. And we talked a lot about Elias Pettersson's body language and we have forever it seems, and the situation with Miller along with Elias Pettersson remains the talk of the league and Elliott Freeman said Saturday that all options are on the table and I saw in social media that some people were kind of poking fun at Elliott because he was like, he was like, here are the options here, you know, like they they trade both of them, they trade one of them or they trade neither of them and

people were like yeah obviously those are the options. But the fact that these options are all on the table, I think that's the point that Elliot was trying to make. Like they are on the table and it's gotten to the point now where we're hearing about what the Canucks might be targeting in a possible return in a trade. Here's what Elliot Freeman had to say. I think if the Canucks do make a trade, they're going to need a center in return. I know the Canucks fans right now are concerned

about the defense with Hughes and Ronek injured, but I believe the team has prioritized center in a return more than the blue line, because obviously they'd be trading a center if one or both was to go. So as part of the package, and I would assume it would be a package back for either of those two players, a center would be the priority as part of it. And Ron, one other thing, there've been some reports that maybe someone in Vancouver has asked for a trade.

I can find no proof of that at this point in time. Okay. I know there's a lot of Canucks fans that are exhausted by all of this and they don't like that we're talking about this every day, but it ain't going away until a there's an actual trade or B the team comes out and says there won't be a trade. When the GM comes out and entertains the possibility of trading Pedersen, it's gonna get discussed. They could easily put a statement out.

Miami Heat did it actually with Jimmy Butler about a month ago. How'd that work? Not so well. Not so well. But they came out and they said, we're not trading Jimmy Butler. And then things died down a little bit until they didn't. And now they have to trade. Now they have to trade them. But they could do

that. They could throw water on all these reports, but they haven't. And here's the thing. I think that's the point. I don't think they want water thrown on anything. They want to put these guys feet to the fire. They want to see how they respond to this. And if they don't respond, I think we're going to see a trade. I made a poll question last night on, on X. I saw it. I retweeted it. That's what they call it in the biz, retweeting. And I said, uh, what do you want the Canucks to do? Not what you think they're going to, or what they should do. What do you want the Canucks to do and the options

as Elliot Friedman laid out for us? One was trade Miller, one was trade Pettersson, one was trade both and one was trade neither. Trade neither won this poll with 40%. Trade Miller was close at 38%. Trade Pedersen was last at 8%. And trade both was at 13%. Now I think it was interesting that some sort of trade won.

Like that was- Trade neither barely won those. What, three, 2 percent, three percent? Like, that's like a lot of fans- Trade both is just like- Leaning on the trade miller bad way. Trade both is basically you're saying, I'm sick of this. Like, just get rid of both of them.

Because trading both is- But it was super close there at the top. Pretty impossible during the season. Yeah. It's funny, like, people ask, well, what did you vote? And- Democrat. Yeah.

I had a write-in vote for give me a new team. The thing is, I get all the options here. Some of them are more, I guess, convincing to me than others, but let's face it. Like trade neither is the one that should happen. Right. But like figure it out, play better. I don't know if it's the rift that's keeping these guys down or something else,

but whatever it is, figure it out. Because, you know, with these guys at the top of their game, the Canucks would be the envy of most teams in the league with the one, two punch down the middle. But that hasn't been like that for almost a year now. But like, I would probably vote if I had to vote, if you said, make me vote on this, I'd say trade Miller because he's the older player on this I'd say trade Miller because he's the older player and he's almost 32 and who knows you know this might be the start of a decline that happens at this age in a lot of players and I also

think you know they just they have to do something at some point and if they're going to do something, I would rather trade the older player. Now, does that make me feel good? God, no. Pedersen has been playing well below his potential for almost a full calendar year now. It goes all the way back to the All-Star game in February, which I always point out just happened to be the time that the Canucks started leaning on him to sign a long-term contract. We still don't really know why Pedersen's game has fallen off so much. There are people I know on social media that are absolutely

convinced that he's injured. And now he is injured. But they've been convinced that this knee tendonitis has been a thing for a long time and they say, look at his, look at his skating his skating stats they're well below it has to be an injury I don't know maybe but I don't think it's in the team's interest to force someone to play through an injury and if he would come to them and be like listen I'm injured like you have to give me some time off they go no no we we want to bury this massive investment we made you know like that's not i don't see that happening i just don't and people are like well

they're dinosaurs the way they the way they deal with it i was like yeah look at the way they handle dempco they were super careful with dempco So I have concerns frankly about the character of each of these players and and and and and so it gets me to the point where I'm like as hard as it would be and as much of a hole as it would create there are times when I think just trade them both. Because I can't deal with the body language. I can't deal with the post-game interviews where they look so hard done by

and they look just like, you know? Like it just really, really bothers me that these guys are playing for the team that I like and they look so bloody miserable all the time. I'm coming in hot on Monday morning, but I'm getting sick of it. Not tired of it, I'm getting sick of it. Something's got to give here because I'm not enjoying watching this team right now. You know who is probably equally frustrated maybe not coming in as hot although in a recent

interview with our very own Ian McIntyre kind of did is the general manager of the team. That was hot for Alvin. That was pretty okay look if you want to know the crux of this entire thing I'll just reread this section of his answer when asked about Elias Pettersson. This is Patrick Alveen talking to IMAC back on December 31st. You can see the article. It's up now at Sportsnet.ca. Petey has shown up to this point

that he is an extremely talented quality player that could and should be a number one center. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable, but he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is a trade possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.

To me, this is all about a general manager who's reached the end of his rope with a player that he, here's the key to the whole thing where he says, could and should be an elite number one center. And I believe in them. They didn't believe in them. They didn't think that he could get there. It'd probably be a lot easier to cut bait with them. Right? They signed them to a contract for a reason. If you work with someone long enough and you understand what they are and where their ceiling is, you know what you've got. And I think Patrick Alveen fundamentally believes that Pedersen is a bona fide top 10 elite

center in the NHL and that's why they paid him accordingly. Now what he's saying is, when you get to that level and you get $90 million from an organization, life does not get easier for you. You got paid and you're rich now, but that doesn't make your life easier. There's more expectations, there's more weight on your shoulders.

And as he said, you need to mature and you need to understand where those expectations are. He's weighted through last season, right? They were, the organization was pretty patient. They worked out the contract extension. There wasn't any huge criticisms of him when he didn't show up in the playoffs. The team went out and addressed the winger problem.

They shipped Ilya Mikhailov off to Chicago. They brought in Jake DeBrusk. Remember that was my, I stood on that one for months in the spring. Very hard to have Pedersen playing at a level when you've got these wingers weighing him down. They went out and did every single thing imaginable to make sure that he could have the type of success they envisioned he would have. And now it's not happening and look what's happening. The management is like- Are you taking the baton from me on the RIPP-PT? No, no, no.

I'm happy for you to take it. I'm not pointing out anything other than what's blindingly obvious. The general manager could have easily said- Was it not blindly obvious just watching his game? But here's the thing. They never took this tax before. They didn't, I wouldn't say it was placating him,

but they definitely were making as many moves as they could to make sure he was comfortable, financially paid, and surrounded by better players. And then when, I remember saying after they made the brusque signing, I'm like, well, you're kind of running out of excuses for the player. Now the management group appears to have gotten there. They're like, this is now firmly on 40, number 40.

Like it's on him. Like there's not much more we can do here, right? And that's why there are- I'd be furious of his management and ownership watching both these guys play. Well I think- And how they're carrying themselves. But I do think there's a difference between Miller

and Pedersen in terms, in their eyes. Like, I don't think they view them as the same. I think they view them as like, at least Miller has given us something after we signed them to a contract. Yeah. And we have not received any of that with Pedersen. I also think-

I think they're pretty frustrated with them right now. I also think that if you're gonna say who's the bigger let down of the two, I would say it's probably Pedersen. And I think that's because they anticipated that everything was going to move forward. I think in the back of their mind, the recesses of their mind, they knew that at a certain point Miller was probably gonna regress at some point. And I'm not saying that's what's happening now, but it might be.

But with Pedersen, I think that there's a high level of frustration starting up high with Rutherford and Alveon and it's trickled its way down You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough 804 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking

for, sales, financing, service or parts. We are now officially in hour three of the program. Satyar Shah is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour three. Hour three is brought to you by Campbell and Pound, real estate appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell and Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell-Pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider,

powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So our feet, what are you waiting for? Kintec, to the phone lines we go. Sat Shah joins us now in the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Sat? What's going on, boys? You know, just another Monday.

Sifting through trade rumors. You know how it is. Just another manic Monday. What a, what a, what a time it's been. How, how I got to ask you, cause you do this more than I think anybody on the station, talk about this team and then probably have to face more questions than anybody at the station about what the hell is going on. Uh, how much fun has this been for you, Sat? Uh, I mean I love what we do, right?

Like we get to talk sports all the time. And I trust me, this is far better than a normal job. I'll take it any day I can. Now, I mean, I am a little bit tired of the JT Pedersen thing. I'm sure everybody is to some degree because it's like the same thing that we're talking about and asking the same questions repeatedly. So there's been a lot of the same answers and we're all kind of waiting to see what happens next. But that's probably the one I'm

tired of because not a lot of movements happen. Ever since everything came out about, we've just been saying the same thing just in different ways for like two months now. Isn't that the whole point of this though, from the management perspective? They could stop it right now if they wanted to. They'll just say, we're not trading these guys. perspective, they could stop it right now if they wanted to. They'd just say, we're not trading these guys. Yeah. I mean, I think the message was sent by Patrick, right? When he spoke to, I mean, when we spoke to PJ, he said similar things too.

They got into a bit more detail, obviously, when he spoke to Ian, and it's clear that they're not happy. Otherwise you would have said, you're happy. You don't say you're glass half full, right? So it's clear that they're not happy with how things are going. I think they're being honest about not being happy about how, about how things are going. The thing that I'm struggling with is the timeline of something happening.

Cause every time you check in, especially recently, it doesn't seem like they're close to anything. Now obviously this can change quickly. We can sit here in a couple of days or a few hours and something came down the pipe and something happened. But you know, as early as this morning with all this stuff kind of happening, like doesn't seem like anything is close. And it's clear that we're still at the stage

where they're sending the message to these guys, but can they receive the message? Can we see JT and when Pedersen comes back actually play any different than they have? And can they take that step? And if they don't, then maybe that, that spinal breaking point occurs. How much of this is compounded by the fact

that it's really difficult to pull off a trade or trades of this magnitude in the current climate? Well, I think that's a huge part of it, Mike. And I think the other part of it, you know, I mean, tying into that is the Canucks have a pretty good idea of what teams have been prepared to offer them right now. And again, these things can change as you get close to the deadline. And I think the reason anything, something hasn't happened, again, Captain Obvious statement, there hasn't been an offer that's been good enough, right? And I think that the price for these players

is not what you want it to be. I think the other thing to consider is the Canucks have very poor leverage right now. Not only have they made it very public, or is it public, it is very public that there is dissatisfaction between a couple of players. The team is not happy with how things are going. And the team has struggled. They all have injuries in the back end. Right now teams are not helping

them out in trade talks. That's why they haven't even been able to make a deal to find some help on the back end. So they have zero leverage when it comes to try to acquire help, let alone trying to get maximum value on your two best or two of your best assets in Elias Pedersen and JT Miller. And until they play better, I'm not sure it changes their, that situation. And then you get to a point where you have to make a decision for the greater goods, so to speak, but I don't see a beneficial scenario currently, as you sit here on, on what January 6th, that the class can trade either JT or Elias Pederson and actually come away, come away ahead in that deal.

I think the team understands that. And that's the main reason why they're really trying to prod these guys to, can we get these guys back to playing the way they can? Cause as we sit here and speak, the best option we have is both guys fighting their games here. If you trade either guy today, we're probably losing that deal. Where did this all start going so sideways?

We threw out the All- star break last, like almost a year ago now in February last season. That's where I think things started to go a little sideways, especially with Elias Pedersen, but maybe you feel otherwise. You mean like this PD himself or like PD. Just the whole thing. Just the whole, like, oh, wait a minute, maybe

this is going a little sideways. Like I realized after that all star break, they went all the way to the second round with the Edmonton Oilers, but, um, there was something off about Pedersen's game and frankly, the Canucks, you know, even in the playoffs, like they had a lot of games that were reminiscent of the games they've had this season where it seemed like even getting a shot on goal was tough, let alone scoring a goal. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think that the thing with Pederson last year, which is really interesting was he was productive. But remember he had that hat trick game against the, the preds where he had a bunch of turnovers too. And, and then talk it after the game was like, well, you've got a hat trick, but those turnovers now you can't turn the puck over that many times. Even through the course of the early parts of the year, he was scoring a lot. But we were talking about how he doesn't look like the same type of impact player. So I think the, the all star break and him, the score is drying up as an easy time to look at it and say, well,

that's when something happened. But if we go back and actually dissect how he was playing and how he was scoring, I don't think he was playing to the level that you're accustomed to seeing. I don't think anyone's have an answer as that you're accustomed to seeing. I don't think any of us have an answer as to why that happened. And the thing that's been so strange is this whole notion that is he practicing hard enough? Is he prepared well enough? Cause what did we talk about,

about Pederson the first few years of his career, the amount of work he put in. I remember Bach outlined him breaking down his shot. It's like 11 different stages. They've worked at each one to make it this perfect one timer that was so accurate and got off so quickly and could be, uh, to fire about a hundred miles an hour. He worked on that meticulously. I remember talking to Pedersen.

He spoke about the only thing you can do is work hard and ask one to prevail. And why are we all of a sudden hearing about a player who needs to maybe work a little bit harder, maybe be a bit more dedicated to his craft? That to me is a question that comes down to the individual. And if that actually is the case, what happened with the individual for that not to be the driving force anymore? The thing is he's capable of doing, he's shown he is, right? Is this something that's going to get it out of him? The fact that coaching staff has been very big this year on, he's got to practice a bit harder, stay on the ice a bit longer. You do those things, you'll get better. Where did that happen? And I don't think that's, there's a flash point from last year. We looked at it and say, well, he stopped scoring at

the all-star break. It was a contract negotiation. At what point did his preparation change? And that to me is harder to truly understand. You kind of wonder, even though he was scoring last year, why the head coach was still critical of this game before he started getting cold and the production dried up. So what, what, what are you suggesting anything or here? Or are you just curious? Because I've, I've gone out on a limb here and I'm sure I'm going to hear about it. Cause I sat there in the last segment.

I was like, I'm still not a hundred percent sure he wants to be on the Canucks. Yeah, I know. I see it to me, like I be on the Canucks. Yeah, I don't know. It's just to me, like I haven't heard that at all. And I asked about that. There was a rumor going on that, you know, somebody asked for a trade, whether it was JT, whether it was, whether it was Pederson and asking around about that. It's like, no, no players asked for trade. JT hasn't asked for a trade.

I don't know. I wasn't part of that. Pederson hasn't asked for a trade. You had that chat with IMAQ this morning that came out and he mentions how he wants to be here. I don't think there's a situation where this player wants out. I just don't, I don't have the answer. I think this is why we're all sitting here trying to figure out what leads this player not being at the level that he's accustomed to being at, especially for now, it's going

on a year. It's been a year of him kind of going through this bit of a malaise. And when you keep, when the coaches coaches coach talks about preparation and he spoke about it through training camp and we heard and we read what Albina had to say. To me, it comes down to there's something he's doing or not doing a preparation or hasn't done that they believe is leading to him not playing at his top level, which I find strange again, because like I mentioned, that's something that he was very good at doing, or at least that was something that was a strength of his game, being prepared, putting that work

in and for whatever reason, why is that being questioned? That's the big strange thing. And again, like I think the players capable, I don't think he wants out. I'm just a bit shocked that we're here talking about these things. We're speaking to Satyar Shah, Sportsnet 650 is very own here on the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. I keep going back to where the executive and the collective term for Alveen and Rutherford and where they're at right now. And if you look at the chronology of the way that they've tried to either appease or fix or whatever you want to use for Pedersen. So, you know, the contract extension, they did that. He needs better players to play with.

They went out and addressed that. And I remember thinking that when they, especially when they signed to Brasque, that, okay, they've kind of done everything that they can do as a management group within their power. And now it's, they've kind of got to, I want to call it the end of the rope, where it's you just start publicly challenging the player

and not even making any bones about it. And after this is where it really gets interesting because then you're in the abyss. Like you've, you know, it's like you say you've played all the cards you can play. I failed to see what other one there is aside from a trade. But as we said, trades are the most difficult thing to pull off. Everything else they did was in their control. This one, it feels like you're really at the end of your rope. And unless you try and criticize them again and again and again, you're out of ideas. I think you've played your cards in season, right? Like, I don't think there's much else

you can do this season. What are you going to do? Just like name call them at this point and make fun of them. I can't, you can try to do that. I'm not sure that's going to go anywhere. Right. But I mean, I don't think there's anything else you can do. And the trade, if you are trading either player, you have to make sure you do the best trade possible. And I, right now, fail to see that coming together by the deadline. The way I look at it is, are they going to give it this season?

They push these players now, they made it public, everybody knows where everything stands, everybody understands what needs to happen. And if it doesn't happen this season, then this off season is where you make that decision. And the no trade stuff for Pederson doesn't kick in till July 1st. The draft becomes, you know, a big point. But the thing that I hear all the time when I talk to people with the team is,

Pederson doesn't have a no trade clause. But when he was signed, it was with the understanding of he's not getting traded in this one year where he's not getting traded in this one year where he's not eligible for the no trade clause. And there was like a, whether it was the handshake agreement or some sort of understanding between the parties that we're not doing this. So I don't think it's a situation where because he doesn't have a no trade clause, they'll trade them wherever.

I think even if they are trading him, it would be something where it's like, Hey, we'll talk to you about it. We'll try to find you a destination where it'll work. And I just don't know if that's going to happen in season. And the same thing for JT. And I think as much as a guy like Tauke it and the front office may love JT, I think logically you also have to be careful and look at it. And I think they understand this, that one player is 31, one player is 26.

And if you are having to choose between one player, maybe the player today that you want to choose is a 31 year old. Does that really make sense a year from now? And is that really what you're having to choose between one player, maybe the player today that you want to choose is a 31 year old. Does that really make sense a year from now? And is that really what you're going to do? So I don't even know if they've made that decision full stop. And I would still be surprised if Pedersen gets traded. But to me, it looks like, let's see what we can do this season. As long as we make the playoffs, let's see if we can figure it out.

And if it doesn't happen by the end of the year, then we'll see one guy get traded this off season. And I guess it's possible both guys get moved. I still look at it and wonder if they have to choose. I have a hard time believing in the summit that they would ultimately choose the guy who's five years old. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And I think the smart move would be to pick the younger guy,

but that younger guy is only going to have more pressure on him. Then if there's a move like that, that was made. By the way, I think it's important to keep stressing that Pedersen was not eligible for a no move clause, no trade clause in the first year of this contract because of the CBA. Like this wasn't something that management specifically did. And it's interesting that you point out that there

was possibly a handshake agreement that said like, listen, like you might not technically have a no trade clause, but don't worry, we'll work with you if something does like that does happen. And I'm sure they thought it was unlikely at the time that it would happen considering they just signed the massive contract, but I guess they

might have to, sorry, go ahead. So Rutherford came up, so Rutherford said to us, when we spoke to him, they headed them signing Pederson and we asked like, what, what are you looking for with Pederson a contract? Are you looking for short term, long term? His answer was whatever is, whatever Pederson is comfortable with, we're comfortable with when it came to the term of the contract, that's how badly they wanted this player signed a year ago.

Right? So like, it wasn't just this desire to get him signed on, which like, they really wanted to keep this player and they believe in this player. And I think there is a level of frustration that we got to this point and we're sitting here talking about these things. And yeah, they couldn't give him the no trade clause. And the other thing is Quinn Hughes is also represented by the same agency. And not to say that how you treat one player is going to lead to the other guy, but it

makes it a more thorny situation, especially when it comes to no trade protection stuff and the contract talks in terms of money. I think I don't see a situation where the connoisseurs trade him the Buffalo without his approval essentially. What do you think when Hughes is thinking about all this and how this season, I don't want to say it's slipping away, but it's teetering. Well, I'm sure he's frustrated, right?

Like it's like you see a guy whose preparation is second to none. He's putting together a better season than one he had last year. And we hear stuff Elliot mentioning about there's, you know, frustration from guys like Taukeed and Hughes. The fact that neither guy or at least Hughes wasn't afraid of at least acknowledging that teammates aren't best friends and we believe we can overcome these things. Him acknowledging that I think tells you that there is a level of frustration that this is ongoing, whether it's become a story or not. And the best way

to address it is head on, because it wasn't a story, if it wasn't bothering him, I think he's like, Oh, it's not a big deal. We don't worry about these things as immediate fabrication and whatever, but there's an acknowledgement of Yeah, we have to come together, we can do better. And I think he is frustrated because like, look at the dedication he has, look at the preparation he's had, look at the results he's having and look at the adversity he's played through.

He's played through injuries himself. He's played through not having his ideal D partner in Filipino and all he's done is excel and get better and better. And I don't care what his teammates are up to. If you're playing at that level and other guys can't get there, I'm sure that frustrates you, right? I mean, not to say Quinn uses Michael Jordan, but we know how Michael acted when players didn't play their best. Right. And I'm sure when it comes to, right? I mean, not to say Quinn uses Michael Jordan, but we know how Michael acted when players

didn't play their best, right? And I'm sure when it comes to these guys who are wired this way, they're not gonna be pleased when they see, you know, some of the most important players not pulling their weight to the level that they're supposed to. Is Rick Tauke more frustrated or more tired with this situation?

Oh man, that's a, I mean, I guess it depends on, I mean, I guess it could be semantic to some degree, right? But he does look frustrated and I think a lot of it does come down to how his team is playing. And I think for a consistent type of player that he was, like having the inconsistencies and having games where you're not as willing to sacrifice. And by sacrifice, I don't mean, you know, blocking shots, but getting on the right side of the puck, right? Battling from the net, getting in on the forecheck, you know, taking the extra step, you're skating a little bit harder to get off the ice. Like these are things that he lives by and they haven't been able to execute on

those things. And I think those things do frustrate him and, and not to mention the noise. I think the other part is he keeps referencing Sydney Crosby and this great leadership group with the Pittsburgh Penguins and that's all fine and good, but that's also maybe the complete exception. Like, you're not going to have a lot of teams where you're going to have a Sydney Crosby you're going to have the type of environment and the type of culture that Pittsburgh had and it may be if you're trying to compare everything to that level you'll always be left disappointed so perhaps he has to reframe some expectations to some degree but I do

think there's a real helpful frustration from the head coach. Not only that we have to deal with all this BS that's been hanging around the team, but he's had such a hard time getting consistency out of his club. Do you think that in light of Alvin's comments, which are really only a week ago,

that the head coach might be maybe emboldened to be as publicly critical as the general manager was. Cause Tocket, one thing he's been this year is very measured when it comes to talking with the media, almost to the point where he wants to avoid to say anything that might cause controversy with his remarks. I still think he's going to be a bit, uh, I think it depends on which player he's talking about. Like for instance, about Pederson, I just don't think he's going to give us his real

thoughts on Pederson. It's unclear by, you know, how he's reacted that he doesn't think it's worth, I think to criticize the player publicly because of how big a storm it becomes. Not only, you know, with the media stuff, but is that also the best way to get through the player? So I don't think he's going to change that approach when it comes to specific players. And I think that every time he's been critical of the team, not to say he's blown up in his face, but it's good.

It gets used against them a lot, right? Oh, you said this, you said this. Well, you know, the coach is saying this, how should we react? So I think he's very aware of that too. And I think there is a level of maybe, um, um, tired, being tired or frustrated that in this media market, no matter what you say, it gets used against you. It can get used against you in some degree. So I just don't know if he's all of a sudden

just gonna start ripping it off like it did before. I think he worries that him being too honest creates more talking points than not. Sure. What do you think of the job that Taukett's done this year compared to last? Man, so I think in general, as far as like, hey, they've been able to get some points

considering everything they've gone through. So I don't mind that aspect of it. The one thing that, you know, whether it's a coach or personnel, the fact that they haven't been able to evolve or get better when it comes to generating scoring chances and being a bit more diverse offensively to me is a bit of a problem. And I think for the team to really take a step, like they have to find a way to diversify how to create chances. They can't just be the same thing over and over again. And I,

and I understand that the coach also, you know, points to the fact that he's, he wants different things than what they're doing. But at some point, you have to find a way to get through to them or find a way for them to have a system or an approach where you're able to get them to do the things you wanted to do consistently. So I think it's been a bit of a mixed bag. The most important thing is you have a decent record. They've been getting a lot of results on the road and the teams ran a hunt and that's what you want more than anything. You've gone through as many injuries and problems as the connects have had,

nothing in the big picture. But as far as like his acumen, I do think it's fair to wonder like, what can this team do and its coaches and staff do to get more out of their special teams, especially their power play, but namely their five on five offense, because they're not generating and they're not even getting a lot of volume. And they're not giving a ton up, but they're giving up more than they gave up last year. Like they're not in the overall grand scheme of things. They're not generating to the level they did last year, and they're giving up more than they did last year. So their offense and their defense is worse than it was last year. And I don't know how you're going to compete unless you improve those things. Is it fair to suggest that this,

where they're at in the standings and where the season is going is just a natural byproduct of having a blue line that wasn't great depth wise to begin with and then losing the first and second guys off it? Well, yeah, I mean mean like I think not having Hughes and Gronach makes such a big difference to it, right? But at the same time, like when we look at how the Fords are playing, this kind of comes

down to JT and Pederson again, right? Like if those players are playing the way they're supposed to be playing, are we even sitting here and talking about the Canucks offense? Because the thing that you see is you could look at the chance generation and the shot attempts for both players. They're not generating as much or they're not shooting as much either as they did in the past. So how much of this is the chicken and the egg?

Is it the system that's not allowing these guys to be at their best or are these players simply not playing well enough? Because we saw them have success last year under this system. We know they can generate with this coaching staff. And I think for all the talk about the defense and of course, they need a top four defenseman. The sort of reminds me of the discussion we were having when Travis got fired, when there was all this talk of the defense, defense, defense.

And yeah, sure. The defense needs to be better, but what was your main reason that team suck was because Brock best at putting a score at JT Miller was, was barely playing, right? Pederson was somewhat struggling. Other guys are your best players were struggling. If your best players are struggling, like how good can you be ultimately? And I think a lot of it would be alleviated

if you had Pederson and JT playing better. I thought it was the PK that got Travis. Oh yeah, that, that was also bad. Yeah, that too. That too. If you love Satyarshah's analysis, and who doesn't really? A reminder, you can hear him today beginning at 2 o'clock

Canucks Central, Sat and Dan 2 to 3 Canucks pregame 3 to 4 30 puck drop is 4 30 tonight in Montreal You can hear it all right here on Sportsnet 650 you can watch it on Amazon Prime. Sat thanks for doing this today bud We really appreciate it Anytime boys and maybe next time we'll talk something actually happens. Hopefully. Thanks Sat. Satyarshah here on the Alfred and Ruff show on Sportsnet 650. So in case you missed the news today, uh, Dakota Joshua has been placed on IR and Jonathan Lekarmacki has been recalled from Abbotsford, the connexor

in Montreal to play the red hot, believe it or not, Habs tonight. Um, Dakota Joshua was hurt against Nashville. I think Teddy Bluger pushed Roman Yossi into him and he suffered a lower body injury. Bluger. Yeah. So that was unfortunate.

Joshua had to leave the game. He had a scrap center ice scrap. With Mike McCarran? Yeah, it was kind of cool. They were like, let's go to center ice and do this. What the hell? Yeah. Yeah.

Um, of course now he's hurt so. It's not as good. Right, but it wasn't in the fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're listening to the best of Halford and