Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 1/8/26

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they chat with former Canucks assistant GM and newly-minted Columbus Blue Jackets VP of Hockey Ops Laurence Gilman, plus they preview tonight's 'Nucks matchup at Detroit with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Here's Settlementing moving in. Back to Eklund. He's got it. He scores William Eklund from Becklin Celebrating. The Sharks win in overtime. Four to three.

Oh, no! No! You'll quickly wins it for Toronto. Three ball at the horn. Banked in. Paulo baked it in. Polo baked it in. And the magic, get out of here with a dump.

Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Good morning, Vancouver. 601 on a Thursday. What energy to start the show. It is Halpert and his broth in his Sportsnet 650. We are coming live from the Kintech Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes,

Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Hey, Daw, good morning to you. Good morning. And Ladi, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Bruff in the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Score a debt freedom hat trick, one no more interest, two much lower payments and three financial peace of mind. Visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour 1 is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle. You get paid. Visit the middle of 17 Powell Street in Vancouver.

We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studio, make 2026 your year to move better and step stronger with Kintech custom orthotics. Big show ahead on a Thursday. The guest list today, also known as the Duick Morning Drive. Brought to you by the Duick Auto Group begins at 630. Kevin Allen from Detroit Hockey Now. Longtime USA Today writer is going to join the program.

Canucks are in Detroit to take on the Red Wings tonight. 4 p.m. You can hear the call right here on SportsNet 650. Kevin will join us for a Red Wally Wing's preview at 6.30 this morning. 7 o'clock this morning, former Vancouver Canox's assistant general manager, newly minted VP of Hockey Ops for the Columbus Blue Jackets,

Lawrence Gilman is going to join the program. Longtime friend of the Halford & Brough Show, dating all the way back to the curtain blog days. He now gets to work with another long-time friend of the program, Don Waddell, the only general manager that will take our calls in the summer. and a very funny guy. He's great. They're going to have some laughs together.

They're going to be great. Lawrence is a good dude. I'm happy for him. Lawrence Gilman is going to join the program at 7 o'clock this morning. 7.30 Brady Henderson, our Seahawks insider from ESPN. No Seahawks game this weekend. Uh-uh. They're maxing and relaxing.

As the number one seed in the NFC, they get a buy right through this wild card weekend. Some Seahawks talk with Brady at 7.30 this morning. Losers having to play games in the wildcard weekend. Could you imagine? Not me. Eight o'clock, Thomas Dr. Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks Talk is going to join us at 8 a.m.

As mentioned, Canucks are back in action tonight and they now have to win four of their next five to keep my road trip prediction alive. We can talk to Dranser about that and whatever else we want because it's our show at 8 a.m. this morning. We have two giveaways on the program today as well. At 7.30 Vancouver Giants tickets for the January 10th game against the Wanchi Wild. The new look Giants. Yeah, that's right. They traded everybody. Not everybody.

Most players. They shuffled the deck. Quite hard. They are playing January 10th this weekend against the one at you wild. Caller number 5 at 7.30 this morning will win a pair of tickets. 604, 280, 0650. That's at 7.30. And then at 8 a.m.

We're giving away a pair of tickets to see Chris Stapleton in the All-American Road Show. July 22nd, 2026, Rogers Arena. Caller number 5 at 8 a.m. 8 a.m. this morning, 604, 280, 0.0.650. We'll win those tickets. I will win those tickets. best to remind everyone ahead of time when the calls are for the Giants tickets and the Chris Stapleton tickets. Anyway, that's the program. That's what's happening today. Laddie, without further

ado, to tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I will do. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training, visit them online at BCCSA.ca.ca. Jason, I have a question for you.

Would you like to start the show today with news that is positive and optimistic for Team Canada at the upcoming Olympics or negative and pessimistic? Let's start with the positivity. Let's do it. And let's focus on a good North Vancouver kid, Macklin Celebrini. Late last night, well past 10 o'clock. Macklin Celebrini set up the game winning goal after scoring the game tying goal in a very entertaining 4-3 win for the San Jose Sharks against the L.A. Kings in overtime yesterday.

Let's play the audio of the game-winning play in which Celebrini set up William Eklund for the game-winning goal. Campay's still with it, leaves it. Celebrini, it's caught in the linesman skates, but he's got it. Two-on-one with Eklund. Maclin, the pass. They score! The Sharks do it! They beat the kings here in L.A. Celebrini to Eklund in overtime. You missed the last part of the call. He goes, in overtime, it's over.

And that was the call. There's a huge delay before he says it too. It's probably why I cut it out. He kept on adding facts. In overtime, in L.A. 107. In the state of California. The largest state, based on population.

A land mass of 60,000. So we need to talk about Macklin Celebrini. In overtime, it's over! There it is. Celebrini right now has a 12-game point streak. During that 12-game point streak, he has nine goals and 15 assists. That's 24 points during the 12-game point streak. He is tied for the third longest point-street.

streak by a teenager, because remember, he's still only 19 years old. Crazy. Joe Sackick, Wayne Gretzky, and Jimmy Carson is in there as well. I don't know how, but good shout out to Jimmy Carson for being on that list. But three teenagers previously had a point streak this long in NHL history, celebrating becomes the fourth. I am so fired up for what he's going to do in February for Team Canada at the Olympics. And then eventually when he becomes a Vancouver Canuck five or six years down the road.

Very excited for that as well. Got to be patient, but I'm very, I love this story. I absolutely love this story. He is great. We've talked, do you know there's another celebrini coming to? RJ. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's playing at the North Shore Winter Club.

He's like 14. Yeah. Yeah. He's on a team that Carl Turr has put together. Oh, yeah, I read about this. Yeah, he's tearing it up right now. Yeah. I feel weird.

There's a certain threshold of age with hockey players. You know, like, junior hockey's fine. Like, it's kind of ingrained in the Canadian culture that you're watching, like, 16-year-olds run around. And back in the day, fight each other while you drank five dollar beers but now it's going younger and younger you can watch the brick

tournament for example where they're like nine and ten years old but the RJ Celebrini stuff was all over the internet Celebrini Macklin has 67 points in 43 games only two guys are above him in terms of points both of them

Canadians Connor McDavid was 75 points and Nathan McKinnon with 74 points I mean, those three could easily be the Hart Trophy finalists. Yeah. If you had to put a short list together, those would be the three. Those would be the ones, I think, right now.

And Celebrini also plus 17, which says something about him, but Moore says something about the San Jose Sharks. You know, sometimes if your best player is a big minus, it doesn't necessarily say anything about you. Like, Ovechkin had some big minus seasons. Sure. When the Washington Capitals weren't very good. because the best players on a bad team get a lot of ice time.

So are the sharks, what are they? Are they good? I don't even know. I watched them last night. Watch a game last night. Yeah. Maybe it says even more about Celebrini that they're a bad team and he is actually plus 17.

They kind of got caved in in the third period. The Kings took a lead on a crazy Joel Edmondson goal that got chocked off because on review he had knocked the puck in with his hand. then they scored again to go up three, two late. So you're thinking, okay, the Kings played better in the third period. They got their just desserts with 107 remaining. And, you know, Laddie texted this to the group chat as well, as did I. The play Celebrini made to get that thing into overtime was a complete solo effort, a singular effort.

And it was kind of symbolic of the whole year. Like they're not a great team. They've got their flaws, but he's playing at such a level that he's going to bring them to play is that maybe they don't necessarily deserve to be like where they are in the standings and then where they were last night in that game. He's so strong on his skates. Crazy. Because he's not huge.

And you can tell he's, he's fit. You know what I mean? Like he, he, um, he, I mean, it probably helps having a dad that's not only an athlete,

but also like a specialist in training and keeping your body healthy and that sort of thing. Um, but he, there's a reason why he draws so many comparisons to Sidney Crosby. You know, when Ray Ferraro does one of his games, he keeps, I feel like I'm watching Sid out there. And one of the things about Sid is he's,

I mean, he was the perfect for the era that he came into, which was pretty low scoring, and you had to be really, really strong on your skates. Like you still do, but there are players now that, you know, are not as big as strong as they had to be back in those days. That play, the goal that he scored, not only was it a great individual effort, it showed that he can get to the interior of the else.

Yeah, that's exactly what he did. Do you know? And I heard Dranzer talking yesterday about Gavin McKenna, and he wonders if McKenna has more to grow physically. and he's 17, right? And he looks pretty skinny. And he said, you know, well, maybe he's got the type of body that still has some strength to come, right?

Celebrini's already there. I know, that's the... At 19. That's why he's able to thrive the way that he is. Yes. If you want, the other part about last night, Badaard, when he first came into the NHL, sorry to cut you off, but Baderd, he was,

he looked, he actually looked younger than his actual age. Yeah. You know, and I think he's starting to get a little bit stronger now. And you're seeing the results on the ice for him as well. Yeah, well, you talk about the strength and the fitness and everything else that allows celebrating to play the way they did. He was out there for almost the entirety of overtime. The play that happened 308 in overtime where he set up William Eklund for the game-winning goal, he was at the end of a two-plus minute shift.

Like, he'd been out there for a long time, and he was able to steal the puck. I believe it was a fiala. go the other way, set up Beckland. And it looked like it was no problem. Like he could have gone another two minutes on that shift and stayed out the rest of overtime. There have been a bunch of goals where he's made a defensive play and then got those legs pumping and made an offensive play,

which is pretty good for a center. Yep. You know, and that's what the great centers can do because they're great skaters and they're in incredible shape. So that's the good stuff. Yeah. For future Vancouver, Kentucky, Conach, Macklin, Celebrating. For Canada.

Now, Jordan Binnington shut out the Montreal Canadiens the other day, and a lot of people were relieved to see that, unless you were a fan of the Montreal Canadiens. Because correct me if I'm wrong here, but Canada named the Olympic team, and Jordan Bennington was on it. And then approximately five minutes later, he allowed three goals in like five minutes against the Colorado Avalanche. That is correct. and had a tough night against the Aves. So got some criticism there, and people were like, oh, this is the guy who's going to be the starter for Canada? He ended with six goals on 43 shots in that game.

Yeah, it's the Aves, though. They're a good team. And then he shuts out Montreal, so you're feeling good about it. What happened last night against Chicago? Well, the big story for the teams, from the team perspective, is that the Chicago Blackhawks whipped on the St. Louis Blue 7-3 last night. Jordan Bennington was in net for all seven goals allowed. Now, where it got interesting was after the seventh goal,

scored by Louis Crevier, about midway through the third period. So you're looking at there's about 10 minutes left to go in the third. It's late, but it's seven goals allowed for Bennington. And this is a team of St. Louis Blues, who have repeatedly gone to the hook this year for their goalies. Well, lo and behold, after Crevier scores goal number seven, blues head coach Jim Montgomery

motions to Binnington to come out of the net you can actually pick it up on camera which was interesting the national feed that was playing that game where you can see him

mouth the words Binner let's go so there's just one problem Binner doesn't go he stays in the net and to make things even more confusing I guess the bench in Chicago wasn't big enough to hold

the entirety of the Blues team so Joel, Hofer was supposed to be standing behind them in the tunnel in case of emergency. Just standing there? The whole game? Well, he wasn't, Greg. Joel Hofer was nowhere to be found. Don't think of him a seat somewhere?

He didn't either. He was peeking around the corner. It was hilarious. Not right away. You could see Montgomery and Steve Ott, their assistant coach, looking at each other, being like, where's Hofer, what's going on? You could see Ott speaking into that little microphone on his lapel. And I guess he was either talking to one of the assistant coaches of the trainers,

trying to figure out what was going on. Anyway, you can see Montgomery getting visibly more and more frustrated, but also, Bennington never made a move towards the bench. Like, he saw his coach signaling for him and just didn't go. About five minutes later, they come back from commercial, and the broadcast crew is like, look what we picked up. And they show this camera shot down the tunnel of the Blues Room. And there's Joel Hofer peeking out around the corner, as if to look and be like, who me?

it was very strange are things not going well for Jordan and then he held up a single bush shrub in front of his face so do you think Bennington refused it or do you think he knew that there was no backup goalie to come out there was a backup goalie

but he just wasn't there in the moment and then it felt like the moment passed he probably looked at the tunnel and didn't see anyone coming so he's like I'm not going to leave until Ofer is on his way I'm not going to the craziest part in all of this is that I stayed up late

to watch the St. Louis Blues post-game media availability, nobody asked Jim Montgomery about what happened. They even asked a question about Binnington allowing seven goals and if he was having problem on screenshots. And I'm yelling at my computer. I'm like, there's a better question. Ask a follow-up. What about trying to pull him and Joel Hofer not being there?

Okay, I want to talk about Bennington. Just big picture here. Now, let's go back to the Four Nations and the decision to give Bennington not only a spot on the team, but the starting role. I wasn't in the camp of being super, super concerned because I didn't think Bennington had been that bad. His numbers were down a little bit last season,

but the season before, he actually had a very good year statistically, right, Lattie? Like, stay with me on this, right? That's correct. I had also watched that blues run to the Stanley Cup final very closely. And he was nails in that game seven in Boston for the cup. He was incredible. So he'd played on a big stage. I don't really care if he's a jerk or not, just be a good goalie.

So, you know, unlike a few other people, like I know Laddie was super nervous about Jordan Bennington being in there, didn't want him as the goalie. And for Four Nations, he played well. He played well enough for Canada to win. I'm not in that same position now. Like I don't think you can say, well, he did it a year ago with a goalie. And I've compared goalies to golfers a lot, just because there are some similarities. You know, Kevin Woodley does the same sort of thing.

There are golfers that you'd be like, yeah, I want this guy for the Ryder Cup this year right now with the form that he's on. And then the next year you'd be like, I can't, you know, he can't get off the tea or he can't, you know, can't putt or whatever, a short game's a mess, right? And you could not, you couldn't put them on the team. It'd be, it'd be ridiculous to do so, and it would honestly be unfair to that guy. I'm going to throw some numbers at you right now. Okay. There are 32 goalies in the NHL that have played in 20 games, not 20 starts, but 20 games. Jordan Binnington is dead last in save percentage at 871.

Do you remember Marky? He led in nine goals the other day. His save percentage is 878. Linus Allmark in Ottawa, who's on a leave of absence, and they're really worried about the goaltending in Ottawa, 8-8-1 for Linus O'Mark. So I don't know. how Team Canada is going to handle this, but it's a short tournament.

You know, it's really difficult to go over there, and Canada opens with Chequia and then plays against a couple of minnows, I think. So how are they going to determine which goalie is best by the time they get to the metal round in the elimination game where one bad game could end the tournament? I wonder if it ends up being a redux of 2010, which is where Binnington is the Broder. And then Logan Thompson, question mark, is it? Is it Logan Thompson? I think so.

Laddy, is he the guy the- It wouldn't be Kemper after what we saw against the sharks yesterday. He was okay, but I get what you're saying. It's got to be Thompson. Logan Thompson, by the way? Far and away the best goalie. Third in save percentage at 9.15, I think you got to give Thompson the first start

which would be against Czech Republic and listen I don't think you get to say well you were good for us a year ago so you're the goalie Sam Bennett could say I was good for you a year ago

I'm not even on the team yeah I agree I don't it's getting so extreme right now you know it's getting so extreme like sometimes you can have little rules well you know like you know, I trust you in big games and, but eventually your play becomes so bad that it outweighs

all that stuff, which I do think is important. Have you played in a big game before? Have you delivered in that big game? You know, that, that sort of thing. I do think that's important, but sometimes you get to the point where like, yeah, I know all that, but man, look, like, I think here's another thing. I think St. Louis is the worst team in the NHL. At the very least, I know that they've got the worst goal differential in the NHL. It's actually significantly worse than the second worst team.

Your Vancouver Canucks. So is that, does that reflect poorly on Bennington? Or is that an excuse for him because maybe the environment is so bad in St. Louis? Well, if you're asking Doug Armstrong, that's exactly what he brought up while addressing the goalie selections for Team Canada. So we've done a bad job in St. Louis of putting a good team in front of Binnington. They bend over backwards in St. Louis to protect Bittington. And they've done it over the last two years.

And part of me understands why he was largely responsible for the team's first and only Stanley Cup championship. And that carries some weight and quite frankly some time in a market. But I think that Armstrong's allegiances are a bit split on this one. I think that not naming Bennington would have been catastrophic. It would have been an acknowledgement that it's not just the team in front of them in St. Louis. It's the guy behind the crappy team. It's always interesting how these dynamics, the personal dynamics, whether it's Doug Armstrong with Bennington,

who, you know, Bennington helped Doug Armstrong win a Stanley Cup. Yeah. That's garbage, though. This isn't the blues. No, I know. I agree. I agree. I'm just saying it's difficult for some of these guys to separate.

You know, why do you think Sam Bennett is not on the team? Do you think it's because Horvatt made the team or because Sorrelli made the team and Koup went to bat for Sirelli? Who knows, right? Who knows? I would say Sirelli, right? That's just my thought on it is that if you're going to go and give the, hey, we're splitting hairs here, Koop, between player A and player B, you're going to, to go with the guy that you know, you trust, and you have a relationship with, as opposed to a guy, if you want to throw even more fire onto the conspiracy, more fuel

onto the fire, Sam Bennett plays for Tampa Bay's biggest rival in the entire national hockey league and a bitter rival at that, because the Panthers and the lightning hate each other. Now, put that aside for a sec. This Bennington's situation, as we get closer and closer to a profoundly important Olympics, is a huge issue because they're either going to give him the starting job right out of the gate, which quite frankly, he would only be getting on reputation, not on merit,

but on reputation. Or they're going to have him sitting there as the number two, and then it's going to be that thing where the moment, and I'm going to go with Thompson, I'm just going to say Thompson for the sake of argument, the moment Thompson falters, everyone's going to be looking to,

are you just, are you waiting to put Binnington in? Because he's the guy that won you in the Four Nations. It's a great dynamic from a drama perspective. Jordan texts in to the show, Dunbar Lumber Text Line 650, 650. Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and run a Warriors for over 50 years.

Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dunbarlumber.com. Says Bennington will play the first game for Canada and Thompson will start the second game and be the starter for the rest of the tournament. Not if he wins the first game. But Canada's playing, I think, France in the second game. So it's a second or third game.

They're playing France for sure. what will that prove if any of those guys go in there and play well against France? Oh, they shut out France. Hey, Alex Texier is on France. I think the other team is Switzerland, which has some good players, but it's still Switzerland. Canada should be able to control that game

and make it pretty easy for the goalies. I think the only one really are the checks, and that's the first game. So for me, the biggest decision is who gets the first game. I agree. And it seems like it's been hinted at that the job as Bennington's to lose, and that's what I'm pushing back on. I think he should have already lost it based on his play this season.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. To the phone lines we go, our next guest, as mentioned, the newly minted VP of Hockey Ops for the Columbus Blue Jackets, longtime friend of the program going all the way back to the curtain blog days. It's Lawrence Gilman here. on the Halford and Breff Show on SportsNet 650. Morning, Lawrence, how are you?

I got a kick out of that because if I'm not mistaken, and I don't think I'm mistaken, this is my inaugural interview or appearance on SportsNet 650. I was previously on the other team when the other team existed, but it is nice to, I know, it is nice to have an official interview with the artist formerly known as the Curtin Bloggers. How are you doing, Lawrence?

You must be excited about this new gig. I am. I'm extremely excited. You know, when I made the decision that I was going to move on from the Toronto Maple Leafs, I felt that I wanted to take stock of my place in the cosmos as the expression goes. And I knew that I had at least one more run in me in this industry. And I felt it was very important that at my advanced age, that I would go somewhere, that I would go somewhere that was a good fit, that would be a stable organization

that didn't have a revolving door on its executive suite and while the Columbus Blue Jackets haven't, you know, comparatively speaking, accomplished that much on the ice in terms of championships, they've been one of the more stable organizations

in the National Hockey League since their reception in 1997. Don Wendell's the fourth general manager in 25 years of the franchise and he's only in a second season and the guy that I'm replacing who moved on Josh Flynn was there for 18 years

So I am looking at this It's a long-term fit And I couldn't be more excited To become a member of the Blue Jackets Well we've had Don Waddell on the show a couple of times And the one thing I will say about him is he's hilarious He's really funny And why don't you tell us a little bit about your relationship with Don

How long have you known him And do you anticipate not only doing some good work for the Columbus Blue Jackets But having some laughs along the way Well, there's an article actually written today in the Athletic by Aaron Portsline that goes through sort of the genealogy of our relationship. Don and I first came to meet each other in the late 90s when I was in the infancy of my career with the Winnipeg Jets 1.0 and Don was an assistant GM with the Detroit Red Wings.

And we didn't know each other very well at that time. But he obviously moved on to become the president general manager of the Atlanta Thrashers. and our paths began to cross more often as I was, you know, at that time, you know, became assistant GM for the Phoenix Coyotes at subsequent for the Vancouver Canucks. And after I left the Canucks in 2015 and Ron Francis had, was no longer the general manager of the Carolina Hurricanes, Don contacted me and I traveled to Carolina and spent a very interesting 36 hours with him and Tom Dundon discussing their. vacant general manager position and they subsequently offered me a job which was ultimately not

the general manager position and at that time we could not reach agreement on suitable terms and I passed but that began you know sort of semi-regular dialogue between Don and I over the years and when he caught the job in Columbus I congratulated him and we had a conversation And I ask him, point blank, what are you planning to do here? And his initial response to me was, well, I'm not planning to do anything just yet. I need to get to know the people that are here. But in the event that we make changes, I could very easily see someone with your skills, skill set joining our group.

And, you know, essentially that that's what occurred. When Yeramo Kekekeleman got the job in Buffalo and brought his longtime assistant general manager, Josh Flynn, from Columbus to Buffalo, that set the wheels in motion. And like I said, I think it's a perfect fit for me. Don and I have a very good rapport. I think we see the hockey world the same way. And I think it's fair to say that we both, you know, look, this is a, it's a tough business and it's, you have to make hard decisions. But you've got to have a little fun along the way as well.

And as I like to say, and I've said it often, this business isn't really about splitting atoms or quantum business. And, you know, you can. Go about your business. It's like my time with the Vancouver Connects and, you know, Mike Gillis and Lauren Henning and Eric Crawford and Stan's Neil. Like, we worked hard, but we have a lot of laughs along the way. And I expect that's going to be the case in Columbus with, you know, the inner circle, if you will, which is Don, Rick Nash, and Chris Clark, who's the director of player personnel.

And it's, I think it's going to be good. I think they're a team that is clearly on the rise. I think it's fair to say that this season hasn't gone the way they've wanted it to. They have some things to tighten up, but they have a great young base of talent. They have some really good prospects in the pipeline, and I think they're a team that's better years or ahead of it. We're speaking to Lawrence Gilman here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Lawrence, of course, the former assistant general manager of the Vancouver Canox. And now the VP of Hockey Ops for the Columbus Blue Jackets.

I read the Aaron Portsline article that you referenced there, Lawrence. and it mentioned in there that you're going to be responsible for doing some contract negotiations and the Blue Jackets have a bunch of those on the horizon. And then Aaron points out that, you know, of all the markets in the NHL, there were at times some contentious historical negotiations. He name checks guys like Sergey Bobrovsky and Ryan Johansson and Pierre Luc Dubois and Josh Anderson, you know, that particular market. Historically, there's been some issues when it comes to negotiating.

Is that still the cases that's still the vice? fiber on the market, as you understand, or has that changed a little bit as the Columbus Blue Dacets have grown as an organization? Well, I have no idea, and nor do I care, quite frankly. You know, that's in the past. All I can tell you guys, you people, is, you know, there's a track record of my body of work, and I think it's fair to say that I have a reputation as a hard bargainer, negotiator, but a fair one.

And at the end of the day, you know, when you. negotiate hockey contracts in the National Hockey, the American Hockey or any league for that matter, you're generally speaking dealing with two parties that are trying to get a deal done. And, you know, my modus operandi has always been, you can bake more with sugar than you can with vinegar. And, you know, not every negotiation needs to be a win-lose proposition. And I don't anticipate there being any issues negotiating contracts going forward. If, in fact, these players want to stay in Columbus, you know, there's a marketplace. that needs to be adhered to,

whether that's as a restricted free agent who might have the right to salary arbitration or not, as the case may be, or if it's an unrestricted free agent who has earned the right and the opportunity to go play wherever they want. And I don't see any tension on the horizon in any regard, and quite honestly,

it's not something Don and I have even spoken about because I think it's implicit and it's understood between us. You know, it was funny, we've had Marty Walsh on the program a couple of times, the NHLPA, boss. And when we've talked about negotiations, he kind of alluded to what you were saying. Like, people get this idea that they always have to be adversarial and it's X versus Y or A versus B. But he said that it's often not the case. I guess maybe because he came

from a labor background where the negotiations were different. But with what you're talking about where, you know, sugar instead of vinegar, how do you go about achieving that tone or that mode in negotiations as opposed to it being super adversarial? Well, I think it begins with homework, quite honestly. You know, you need to be realistic when you begin the dialogue with the player's representative or whomever it is you're negotiating with. And if you haven't done your homework, that's when you can have breakdown right off the hop because, you know, the expectations of the other side, you know, you might not know what they are. And you may be so far off base and that gets you off to a terrible start. So really, if you have an idea of what the market.

market is. And if you're sitting in this chair, you don't, there's no excuse not to. So when it comes to, let's say, I don't want to take a particular player, but any player who's going to be an unrestricted free agent, they're looking at all the deals that are being done out there. And their agents are looking at deals that are being done out there. And this whole system is based on comparable contracts. And then, you know, other factors come into play. And, you know, to reference in my time in Vancouver, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we, we negotiate some contracts that people referred to with a hometown discount. And I'd like to think that that was more a function of having an understanding with the players

and articulating to them what our ultimate plan is, how we're trying to build a competitive team, and yes, they're entitled to go out and earn as much money as possible, but if they want to play on a competitive team, and in the case of the Vancouver, Conoxone, it was an easy conversation because we would say, listen, the athletes are going to spend for the cap. So whatever it is, it's going to be spent. The question is, how much of it gets allocated to you and how much of it gets allocated to a player that's going to make you better or make this team better such that we have a greater chance to compete for the Stanley Cup?

But that's how I think you need to come about this. And then players make decisions on a number of factors, not the least of which is, do they enjoy the team, the organization, do they enjoy the city, are their wives and their families happy? and do they think it's a good place for them to be for the next infinite period or finite period, whether it's two years, three years, five years, or eight years, whatever cases? Lawrence, when you look back at the time in Vancouver, what was the key to building such a strong culture? Well, obviously there were great pieces that were here when we got here.

But I really think, I go back to one story that occurred, one event that occurred right off the hop. and it was in our first training camp we had two young players in Mason Raymond and Yannick Hansen who clearly played well enough to make the team and you had two other players that were veteran players and they were on one-way contracts

and they were Matt Pettenger and Jeff Cowan and Mike Gillis and I had sat down with Francesco Aqualini and Mike explained that the players know who makes this team and if you really want to have a competitive culture these two young players need to be on the team

and we need to put Cowan and Petjure on waivers, and that means if they clear, you're going to eat, if I'm not mistaken, it was $1.8 million in salary for the Manitola Moose. And to his credit, Francesco Aquilini didn't flinch. And he said, do it. You put those players on waivers, and I believe that instance right there, established a culture that we made business.

And we came here to run this thing in a manner that was going to be competitive and that the money didn't matter. What mattered was the competitive nature of the team, in doing everything that we could in our power to win. And unfortunately, we came one game short of that. Yeah, but there were some good times along the way and some really big games that we all got to enjoy. Well, kind of enjoy.

I don't know if I enjoyed some of those games, but, I mean, it was the peak of sports fandom for me in Vancouver. I want to touch on the negotiations point that you made, that all sorts of guys have different things that they're looking for. Is there a wide swath of players in terms of, like, some guys, I just want to be on a winning team. And other guys are like, I just want to make the most money. Have you come across a huge difference in players,

or are they more mostly the same? No, I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. And without naming names, I can tell you early on, I'll tell you what I knew Mike Gillis was going to be a really good general matter. manager. In our first negotiating season, we were negotiating with a free agent who shall remain nameless.

And we were trying to get this guy to come to our organization and the goal line kept moving. And it kept, you know, if you go to X, I'll come. And then he shot that offer to the next team. The agent came back and said, if you go

to Y, we'll come. Finally, it got to the third time and it was if you go to Z will come. And Mike Gillis convened everybody that was a stakeholder in our group around the room and said, what do you think we should do? Should we sign this guy or not? And when it came to me and I'll tell

tales out of school, my line was, we've established that this guy's a whore. The only thing we haven't figured out yet is what's the price. And if that's how do you want to run it, then go sign the guy. And I watch Mike Gillis look around that room and he said, and I won't quote him directly because there was an expletive, but it was

essentially screw it. This is not what we're going to be about. At the same time. I mean, I don't have to, it's been discussed ad nauseum, but Henrik and Daniel Cudin left millions of dollars on the table because they wanted to remain Vancouver Canucks and they wanted to stay within the organization and they wanted to play in the city of Vancouver. So there you go. There's opposite ends of the spectrum of players, you know, deciding making decisions for every penny and guys making decisions for reasons other than money. One other thing I wanted to touch on with you is all the notes.

movement clause and no trade clauses that we see in the NHL. When did that happen and how do you look at that when you're negotiating a contract? Well, let me go back again to my tenure with the Connects. Of all the players that we had playing on that organization, in that organization at that time, there were only two players that had full no movement causes. and they were brothers, and the reason that they had no movement clauses was because they were taking such a discount.

You can't expect a player to take far less than fair market value without giving them some measure of assurance that they have control over their destiny. Now, that's a far cry from giving a player a no trade clause because the distinction, the most fundamental distinction between a no trade clause and a no movement clause is that you can always put a guy on waivers. with a no trade clause.

And whether that was Roberto Longo or Ryan Kessler, not that that was ever going to happen with either of those players, but that's a fundamental distinction. And we were very judicious in our tenure there. And look, I haven't been sitting in the Cap guy's chair for a number of years. So it's easy for me to sit on, having sat on the sidelines to cast aspersions or to have opinions. But I really do believe that teams have been far too,

far too easy, so to speak, and liberal in giving out no movement and no trade clauses. And all it does is it shrinks your market. And at the end of the day, really, when a player has any kind of trade limitation on their contract, you're turning a two-way transaction into a three-way transaction. Because when a player doesn't have any no-movement, no trade or no movement restrictions, you want to move them. It's a deal between a general manager and a general manager. Once you start adding trade restrictions, it becomes a three-way deal.

and it's a general manager, general manager, and the player. And to the extent that the player has greater influence or less, depends on how strongly worded the no trade clause is. Is it a complete no trade zero? Or is it a 10-team, no-move trade list, or is it a no-moving clause? But the, you know, when I was doing work for the NHL involving the expansion draft from the Vegas-Colven nights, it was fascinating to see the machinations between the NHL

the NHLPA or how do we deal with these no movement clauses and no trade clauses and everything in between because some of them were ironclad and it's like clear this guy is not eligible to be claimed in the expansion draft but then the area became a little great with certain guys that had you know

if it's 10 teams he can't move to or how does the you know where does an expansion draft fall in that category so it's interesting and it's clearly something that's evolved in this business and I'm certain that when I ultimately get down to Columbus in the next few days and we begin the process of negotiating, it'll be something that

will be part of the discussion without question. Lawrence, this was great. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this. We really appreciate it. Best of luck with everything in Columbus. We know it's going to go extremely well for you. And thanks again for coming on. This was awesome. Thanks, guys. And I look forward to my second game and I'm going to be in Columbus for we'll be against the Vancouver Connect. So I'll get to see some old faces and old friends. Looking forward to it. Enjoy it, Lawrence. Thank you. See you, Lawrence. Thanks, guys. Lawrence Gilman, former assistant general manager of the Vancouver Canucks,

currently in his second day on the, third day on the job, maybe, as the VP of Hockey Ops for the Columbus Blue Jackets here on the Halford and Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Thomas Drantz from The Athletic Vancouver, he joins us on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Drancer? Gentlemen, good morning. Let's start with Kiefer Sherwood. We were actually going to bring this up earlier in the show, but it was such an action-packed show.

We didn't have a chance to address a most recent article, courtesy your publication, The Athletic. I believe it was Vince McCogliano had the piece up there that the New York Rangers have expressed an interest in acquiring Kiefer Sherwood. What's your take on, one, that offer to the market for Sherwood? Is it heating up a little bit as we get closer and closer to the trade deadline? I mean, the New York Rangers getting involved in recklessly buying a 30-year-old winger. Yeah, go for it.

Chef's kiss. Yeah, yeah. They've got Carolina's first round pick, which I kind of took note of, right? because is that the market, like a very late first rounder for Kiefer Sherwood? Well, it's Carolina or Dallas's, right? So it's one of those weird conditional picks. But yeah, so it's the higher of Dallas's or Carolinas. So a couple contenders for whomever requires that pick to root against in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

But the, yeah, I mean, look, the, I mean, honestly, the Vancouver Canucks. The news that the Vancouver Canucks made a credible offer, right, to Keeper Sherwood recently, which made no sense, right, was just like, what are we doing here, right? Followed up by the news that the New York Rangers are interested in trading for Keeper Sherwood, which makes somehow even less sense, is just absolute perfection, right? It's incredible. And if you're the Canucks, I mean, I think that's the exact team you want. in the mix here.

You know, I don't think they've done a lot that makes sense across the last 24 months. So, yeah, I mean, I do think a late first plus for me is what you should be shooting for with Kiefer Sherwood. You know, we don't usually see late firsts move for guys you'd describe as middle six-wingers, you know, historically at the deadline. But, man, like, we also don't usually see

the NHL hits leaders that are pacing to score 30 goals and cost just $1.5 million against the cap, right? That's a unique situation here. The fact, too, that Sherwood's camp, you know, is looking at four times four or four times five depending on how you interpret Dolly Wall's report earlier this week and sort of, you know, knowing, knowing, because these are hyper-competent agents that that's light,

you know, I think that speaks volumes, right? Deadline last year, you had guys like Brandon Tanev, who signed for, what, three times two-five, and Anthony Bovillier, who signed for like 2.25-ish, right? I mean, 5 and 9 million in total value. Those guys were returning second-round picks. If those guys are returning second-round picks, and Kiefer-Sher-Wis market as a free agent is going to be literally,

double, then yeah, I don't think a late first plus is an unreasonable thing to expect him to return in a trade. And even if that costs the Canucks adding a fourth round pick into the deal or retaining on Sherwood or taking back an inefficient contract to juice the return, to put themselves in the driver's seat to get that type of return, you know, for me anyway, I think we should be able to look at what Sherwood has done, the $1.5 million of at all, the affordability, the grit and the production, right, that combination of factors and say, it's on the Canucks to figure out how to get a first round pick and we should judge them accordingly.

Like, this should be a huge test for Patrick Alvinan and Jim Rutherford to demonstrate that they're capable of monetizing veteran pieces off of a roster that desperately needs to be rebuilt. And if they can't, you know, I think that's telling. I think that's going to be confidence shattering. in terms of you know that their ability to do what it's going to take to turn this team around well in the case of the Rangers

they might want to the Rangers I'm talking about that might want to pull that trigger now because they've got some ground to make up and I just wonder if there's a there's a desperate executive in Chris Drury who knows that if his team doesn't make the playoffs this season he might be looking for a new job and

maybe for once the Canucks could take advantage of moral hazard yeah I mean that would be fantastic. I mean it's an incredible like it's so mystifying that the Rangers would be interested in this but also a gift. They do need speed

right? Like one of their things is they just don't have a lot of guys that can play more than a half-court game as it stands and you know this is this is the risk factor like the risk factor for the Rangers going into multiple of the last few seasons, right? I mean, one of the reasons I was so excited when the Canucks originally made the Miller trade

acquired for those like out, for that hour and a half before they sent that pick to Pittsburgh Penguins was, you know, the Rangers have so many guys all in that same, you know, age range between 31 and 33. And it's like, You know, you get to that point in a young man's game like hockey, and it's possible that you just see, you know,

like J.T. Miller has lost that elite first step that he had. He's still really good. He's still going to be a productive player. He's still going to finish the season at, what, like 55-ish points and have done a lot of good stuff, and he still made the U.S. Olympic team, and so did Trocheck. But, you know, Zabandajad's now not a two-way driver. He's like a power play.

right he's probably best suited to playing on the wing in the middle six as opposed to first line center and like all of their guys have just taken a slight age related step back all at once and you know it's it's sort of left them stuck like they're they literally kind of look like the pittsburgh penguins last year which i don't you know there's a mike sullivan joke in there but it's not on the coach it's it's just that that team other than that one guy i think it laba other than him, no one on that team can really move. Like, Sherwood can, right? Sherwood can still get up and down. He's still a 80th percentile skater. So, I mean, he would help them. There's no question about that. Transor, what are the connects going to do

with Brock Besser? Oh, man. I mean, I mean, like, this is an organization that we've spent much of the week talking about making an offer to keeper Sherwood, who's 30 years old, right? So, I mean, I think the Canucks should be very sternly looking through their options,

and I think it's very obvious that one of their highly paid late 20s wingers with some variety of trade protection, and that puts Garland, DeBrusk, and Besser, you know, sort of front of mind here. I think at least shedding one of those contracts for me would be like the bare minimum required for this to be a common sense approach to rebuilding, right? Like to me, that's not even, that's not even tearing it down. You know, like, that's the bare minimum. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.