Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 2/25/25

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Mike & Jason discuss the top NHL stories of the day with ESPN Hockey's Greg Wyshynski, they chat some puck with NHL analyst Ray Ferraro, plus the boys discuss what the Canucks might do with Brock Boeser. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Our next guest joins us from America, the same nation that finished second out of the four nations that competed in last week's Four Nations Faceoff. Joining us now, Greg Wyshinski from ESPN here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Greg. How are you? You know, I heard the ESPN scene you played sounds very much like the holiday band Mannheim steamroller.

And speaking of steamrollers, how about that team Canada? They squish any team that's down to 10 forwards and is missing the best defenseman in the world. They absolutely squished it. Might take overtime and a defensive lapse by Adam Fox, but they squish him like a steamroller. We, we have empathy for people that lose and we know you're just lashing out a little bit.

Um, and that's fine. Injuries are part of the game. Canadians actually just play through them, but that's fine. Uh, Wish overall, what did you think of the tournament? We were hoping our guys could play through them, but apparently, uh, some certain teams

that may or may not be located north of the border refuse to let their players get on planes even after the American coach says they're coming. That just sounds like poor communication on behalf of Team USA. It sounds like a lot of dysfunction in that association. The Minnesota Wild Dockers also handling

the communications department, I don't know. Who's to say? The Canucks kept Hughes out of their first two games for optics. So listen, I'll say this, like top five moment of Four Nations was Mike Sullivan getting on the mic and just being like, Quinn Hughes is coming. Like he's a poster for a new season of Game of Thrones.

It was awesome. Um, but so listen, the tournament was, what am I going to do? Put icing on top of icing on this cake? Like it was smashing success from the audience to the fact that Matthew Kachuck was on the Tonight Show last night after a mid-season, regular season tournament. I mean, like it's insane how big it got. I think we all know why it got big from the the three fights in nine seconds to the geopolitical, you know, spice on the tournament to the fact that, and I think this is the most important thing critically as a hockey fan, to the fact that when all the normies tuned in to watch the game that had the fights, they then saw like the best version of our sport. And then they're like, they're going to run it back next Thursday. I will watch that again. Maybe there'll be fights, but also it was super entertaining. And so that to me is the most exhilarating thing was the NHL was smartly got ahead of the Olympics and having a best on best that featured all

of these guys that have never gotten the chance to do it yet, whether it's McDavid or McKinnon or McCarr or the Kachaks or or matthews or whomever and they knew the quality of play was going to be off the charts and and it was and you got to give them credit and the players credit for pushing for for international best on best for as long as they have to know that getting this in before the olympics was going to be a really smart decision and and they got two usa canada games out of it and uh... and you know now they're now now that the all-star game might be dead What's the latest on Matthew Kichuck and what might the Florida Panthers do if he's out long term

Well, it's gonna get bit but but obviously Paul Marie said yesterday that it's not gonna be a season-ender I I don't I haven't gotten Intel as far as what a bit ultimately means. Is it going to be an LTIR special for the playoffs? Is it going to be back before that? They're pretty ensconced in a playoff spot right now, even though the Atlantic has gotten certainly a lot more interesting in the last months with Ottawa and Detroit both kind of making their moves to the wild card. They already played through the loss of Barkov this season. I think they've got enough on that roster to play through the loss of Kachuk for a little bit.

But listen, I mean, when it comes to trying to make the Stanley Cup final for a third consecutive season, they obviously need them healthy. And they also need a lot more on that roster. I've got the bubble watch on ESPN.com this morning looking at every team's playoff probabilities and they're pretty much a lock right now. But if you look at that lineup, I think they're pretty top heavy. They definitely need more offense from their blue line.

And I think that's probably where Bill Zito goes shopping. And so we'll see if it's with Matthew Kachuck's LTIR money or with the anticipation he'll be back soon. I want to continue on this Four Nations talk. I want to ask one more about Matthew Kachuck, really the Kachuck brothers. I'm really curious where they're at in terms of the pantheon of hot American celebrity right now.

Because Jason was in Sochi in 2014, I was back here and we were doing the coverage for NBC and I distinctly remember the level that TJ Oshie got to when he had the heroics against Russia and I watched a hockey player transcend hockey and become celebrity. Now I'm not saying. For about four days. It was quick, right?

It was fast. It was a good time, not a long time. However, I'm seeing that right now with the Kachak brothers, Matthew especially. And I'm just, cause I mean, you're there, you're in the States, we're not. I'm just curious about like. Could they fight the Paul brothers?

Yeah. Like is that where they, are they, are they the new version of the Paul brothers? That's funny. Jason sounds like he's asking a favor. Could they fight the Paul brothers? They bring their sticks. The US international glory part of this is interesting because you're right. I mean like Ryan Miller was a household name for four minutes. Right. TJ Oshie was a

household name for four minutes. In both cases, you know, it didn't result in a gold medal. And I think that's really when you become extremely transcendent is if you lead the US to their first gold since 1980, whoever does that, whoever gets the lion's share of credit for it will then become a household name. Like, I mean, hell, we're just, we're still trotting out Mike Arruzzione

and he was last relevant in like the Carter administration. So I mean, that's what we do. Like our sports heroes are forever if they lead us to the ultimate prize. But it's a good question about the Kachaks because I actually had an argument about this, a disagreement, I don't want to say argument because I'm about to talk about my wife. I had a disagreement with my wife about whether or not the Kachaks had become household names. And she said, she argued no. And I argued, well, I kind of feel like for a lot of people, the name Kachuck has suddenly become

synonymous with USA hockey because both brothers fought in that, you know, nine second span. And then they both played really well in the tournament until the end. Um, and she argued no. And then Matthew Kachuck ended up on Jimmy Fallon last night. And so she conceded the point, like, like they clearly something's happening here with the Chucks where they are now like more, much more mainstream than they were two weeks ago. Uh, to the point where, you know, tonight's guests are Chelsea Handler and Matthew Kachuck. So, uh, you know, something's going on here,

but ultimately to become like household name, uh, like a, you know, Megan Rapinoe or somebody who leads their team to, you know, the ultimate prize, it has to happen in Italy next year. Um, speaking of Italy next year, how much time have you spent thinking about the roster that was put together, what worked? Uh, I mean about the roster that was put together? What worked?

I mean, defensively, that was a very good performance and I think Jacob Slaven might be a household name in Canada now, but what didn't work and who might not make the next team and who might make it? Well, like what does the United States need to do? It's pretty close right now to get over the hump and beat Canada.

Well, it's, I had to think about it a lot because, uh, my editors wanted to publish a, a 2026 Olympic roster projection moments after the four nations final ended. So, uh, that's on the site. Covered in tears. Uh, you know, it's, yeah, it's like, uh, you know, everybody's, everybody's description is, well,

maybe if this guy could step up when it counts, then he could be on the team. Now, um, so like, I obviously there's two factors you have to remember here. The first is that these, this tournament will be played on NHL ice. This, this, this Olympics, it's not international ice.

Uh, at least that's the last word I heard about it. So yeah, I think Chris Johnson. You're going to add. Yeah, I think it was CJ that did it. So like, um, you know, the idea that you're going to add like Cole Caulfield because the ice surface is larger, uh, is, is a non-starter in theory, because they're going to play

these games on an HL ice. The second thing is, um, I think they're going to have to really make a call here on the bottom six. You know, they played really well defensively, but how much did like Brock Nelson, Vincent Trotschek and these guys really do and how much did they do that couldn't be replicated by maybe younger, more offensive players. So there's a bit of an expanded roster. So I imagine T.H. Thompson will be on it.

There's gonna be conversations to be had about Cole Caulfield and Clayton Keller and a few others. The defense, like you said, is pretty well set, but I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't, I wrote about this as well. I don't think Adam Fox's spot on this team is guaranteed I really don't I think he had an awful tournament You know, he didn't generate anything offensively. He wasn't I mean there are better

Power play quarterbacks by the time the championship came around came around. He his ice time had dropped For all the people in Canada that are pilloring Austin Matthews for that play on the McDavid goal, that's Fox's guy, Marner, that was left wide open and Matthews is trying to compensate for it on the play. And I think that there's a lot of observation internally that Adam Fox's mistake cost the US in overtime. So I think there are some people knocking on the door and I don't think Adam Fox's spot on this team is guaranteed. That being said, he's a ranger. He's still considered one of the best defensemen in the world.

I'm sure he'll probably make the roster, but he's nowhere near as cemented as someone like Warren Ski or Slaven is or Faber is at this point. Did you expect more out of Jack Hughes in that tournament? I mean, I'm always expecting more to Jack Hughes because he's like one of the most brilliant offensive players in the league. You got to remember he played the entire tournament at a position. Yeah, right. They had him on a wing.

He doesn't play wing. And so he had 11 shots on goal because he's trying to generate whatever he can off the wing. But you know, Jack is a guy that likes to puck. He's playing with another guy in Matthews that likes to puck. And so he's trying to adapt to doing something differently at a time when any mistake you make is going back the other way for a goal. You know, like, like the other side, it's not Ottawa on a Tuesday night, you know,

in the four nations, it's the best players in the world on the other side of the puck. And so I think, I think he made, I think he made some mistakes and I think that he had a really hard time adapting to playing a new position. I don't know what that portends for 2026. I doubt it means anything as far as the status of the team because again, the amount of players on that roster that do what he does are few and far between. But I mean, if you're looking for the reasons why he struggled, that's the reason is he was playing a new position and trying to be perfect because he knew mistakes would lead to goals the other way. We're speaking to Greg Wyshinski from ESPN here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet

650. So the 2028 World Cup of Hockey, I just wanted to look ahead because obviously the announcement happened during the four nations face off and we got some details, not a ton. I think they're anticipating that Russia will, the sanctions will face off and we got some details not a ton. I think they're anticipating that Russia will the sanctions will be lifted and they'll be allowed to participate internationally again by 2028 and then everything else after that sort of seemed like up in the air or we'll get around to figuring that part out Do you have any did you hear anything in particular about like what teams are going to be participating? Are they going to have a qualifying tournament? Where are they going to hold the games?

Any other details that we can look forward to? Because this and I talked to a lot of people about this. It was amazing that of all the leagues, the NHL was able to knock a tournament out of the park. That might have been the most shocking development at all of this. So there are going to be some anticipations for when they do it again four years from now. Let's let's just take a step back for a second, because I mean. I know circumstances help them, but they, I mean.

Well, I mean, we got, you can't just like, I mean, I love that this happened, and I'm so happy for the NHL and the NHLPA, but I mean, the geopolitical thing, the gap between best on best tournaments, the generation of players playing each other for the first time, the three fights in nine seconds, like there's a ton of things that are not going to be repeatable

in theory in future events and I think it's important to put that in context. Sure. The World Cup though, like as far as I know, they'd love to have qualifying for it, they'd love to have some games I think both in North America and overseas to really make it an international tournament. I mean I think they are allowing the bid process to include European cities. The Russia thing is a huge elephant in the room, but I think they are betting on the fact that the conflict will be resolved by 2028,

and I don't think that's necessarily a bad wager. And then they're hoping that the IHF, by 2028 and I don't think that's necessarily a bad wager and then you know they're hoping that the double IHF you know it has readmitted Russia back to things like World Juniors by then but the most fascinating thing for me about the setup is the declaration that this is not going to be a double IHF event right that it's just going to be the NHL and the NHLPA putting it on which means that all of the players that will populate the NHL and the NHLBA putting it on, which means that all of the players that will populate Germany and Switzerland and the Czechs and the places that need reinforcements

from outside the NHL to solve these rosters are going to come from leagues that the NHL will negotiate with themselves, which is a huge change from previous incarnations of the tournament. And, you know, there are some leagues that have this kind of break built into their schedules already and it won't be a big deal to shut down for the World Cup and there'll be other leagues that it will be a big deal for them to shut down for the World Cup and I think if I was going to speculate I'd say there probably have to be some financial machinations that are happening between the NHL and

those leagues to make that viable for them. But it is a huge change for the NHL to shoulder the populating of these rosters on its own versus inviting the IHF to the table. Wish, let's move on from the Four Nations and look ahead to the March 7th trade deadline. What's gonna happen with Rantinen in Carolina? Oh, I think he's staying. I understand why there is a lot of speculation about, well, if they can't, you know, get them under contract, then, you know, maybe they'll

flip them for something. But, but the ultimate goal here is, you know, is winning the cup. And I feel like this is like some cost fallacy. Like the idea that you've acquired a player ostensibly because of his talent in the regular season, but more importantly because he's one of the most accomplished postseason scorers in the NHL in the last 15 years, and you're a team that's been one goal away from playing for the cup for the entirety of Rod Brindamore's tenure.

The idea that you're going to punt on this season essentially because you're never going to find a player that's as good as Ranton if you flip them is something I can't wrap my brain around. I don't think that this front office, despite it being brilliant and despite it being forward thinking and despite it being like, well, if we can't sign them, we should get something for them, they bought him in to win a cup. And maybe their window is one year and maybe their window ends up being eight years, but they bought him in to win a cup.

And I can't imagine that the contract is going to somehow, you know, subvert that plan. Because again, who's Rantanen? Would they flip him one for one for Pedersen and then watch him spend the next four months trying to find themselves? Like, there's nobody out there that's gonna be as good as Rantnum.

And so, you know, even if you're not sure you can sign him, I think they keep him because they got him to win a cup. So on the latest Playoff Bubble Watch at ESPN.com, you've got the Boston Bruins with a 10.4% chance of making the playoffs. We were talking about this story yesterday. Boston.com had a piece up where it had a quote from Don Sweeney saying that unlike the previous, I don't know, 10 NHL trade deadlines, they're going to have a very cautious

approach. And everyone kind of read that as him waving a white flag on this season. Do we dare see the Boston Bruins in the rare seller mode going into the trade deadline? And then the obvious question is, would Brad Marshawn ever entertain leaving the team possibly at the deadline? I mean, it's always possible. And I think that people have to remember, I think people get blinded by the way that they treated Patrice Bergeron with such reverence

that they forget the way they treated Zdeno Chara. You know, like where, you know, once we didn't need you anymore, now you're a Washington capital. I do think that there is a lack of sentimentality sometimes within that organization when it comes to players like this, and as much as Don Sweeney has talked about Brad Marchand envisioning him finishing his career with the Bruins, the fact of the matter is that when you look at that roster, the number of players with true value at a trade deadline

is very short and Marchand's probably the top name on it. I mean, let's be honest, like he's a game changer. He's the quintessential playoff performer for a team that's looking to get over the hump. He's the last piece of the puzzle guy. And, you know, those guys always get overvalued at the deadline. And I think in Marchand's case, like he'd fetch a pretty a pretty hefty return from a team that believes they could be one agitating scoring winger away from from winning the cup. God, I absolutely forgot the final two years of Zdeno Charo's career were in Washington.

And then I forgot he was a New York Islander for the last year of his career. Yeah, I remember the capitals kind of. Everybody remembers them building statues for for Bergeron but like the arguably like the second or third most beloved player in that run for Boston you know ended up you know is that Zdeno Char or the Washington Monument I don't know but he's in Washington now like it's it's crazy yeah wish this was great bud thanks as always for taking the time to do this we appreciate it enjoy the rest of the week we will do this again next Tuesday. Anytime, boys. Thanks. Thank you.

That's Greg Wyshinski from ESPN here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Wish might have changed my mind about what the Hurricanes are doing with Rantanen. I always just assumed if they couldn't resign them, they were going to flip them, but maybe not. That's a hell of a risk to give away what they did to Colorado and bring in Rantonin who stylistically hasn't been a great fit with Carolina so far. Yep.

Still early. He could still find his game. Remember when Lindholm came to Vancouver, you know, different level of player, but he had a little trouble fitting in and then eventually found a spot on the Canucks. Um, but if they give away what they gave to bring in Ranton and then don't get it done and then he just

walks away in free agency, yikes. But then again, you know, as media members, how many times have we said like the problem with Carolina is as well as they play as a team and as disciplined as they are with the system. And yes, they've got some good individual players. They always seem to be lacking that big dog, you know, that guy who was going to get

them the big goal. And maybe that's Rantaman. I think I get what Wish is saying about the, especially the sunk cost fallacy. Like part of this very much was, um, for the, this season, the immediate, the present, the now is it, you've got a team that can win a Stanley Cup in an Eastern conference that I would say

is fairly wide open with whatever's going on in Florida. Maybe the most wide open I've ever seen it. I mean, I would still, if Florida's healthy, I'm still saying I like Florida, but the wear and tear of going to consecutive Stanley Cup finals, getting to three Stanley Cup finals in a row is an incredibly difficult task.

The top team in the East right now, based on points and goal differential, is the Washington Capitals, and a lot of people are still like, really, Washington? Okay. But I said this yesterday, they don't fit the criteria that we have traditionally had for a Stanley Cup champion. Who doesn't? Okay. But I said this yesterday, they don't fit the criteria that we have traditionally had for a Stanley Cup champion.

Who doesn't? Washington. Oh, right. Yeah. Okay. Like, yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. Can you win? But it's so wide open.

Yeah. Like they used to, to your point, the ease on, I think the whole league is wide open, frankly. So if you're Carolina, you're saying, okay, let's roll the dice. We already rolled the dice, bringing Rantan in. Let's do this without getting a contract extension locked in prior to the dice. We already rolled the dice, bringing Rantan in. Let's do this without getting a contract extension locked in prior to the deadline. We'll play it out and we'll just keep working away at this thing because we're confident we can get him signed.

That's what happens when you put a hundred plus million dollars in front of a guy too. You can change minds with that kind of money. I know that Rantan, he could probably have his choice of wherever he wanted to go in free agency. But if a team's offering him the, remember here, they can add them the eighth year. They're the only team that can do that.

And they're already talking about getting into, I mean, what, they're at 14 figures now. Right? I mean, the, the money that's being, uh, thrown around 13 and a half, 14 million per a hundred plus million on the contract. That kid. Did you just call it 14 figures though?

Yeah. So they're into the 14, 15 figures now. Because when Freage said they're into nine figures, right? I had to stop and I'm like, what is nine figures? And then I was trying to do the math in my head, like how many zeros that was. Yeah, they're not into the 14 figures.

Yeah, they're into the trillions now. They're going to pay him a trillion. He's going to be the first trillionaire athlete. They're going to pay him so... He's going to be the first trillionaire athlete. They're going to pay him so much money. But that's the thing is, is like, if you... They're willing to make him the highest paid player on the team more than Ajo, and they seem ready to do it right now.

Like, you know... But at the same time, he's thinking like, I can get that somewhere else. Maybe not that eighth year, but I'm still rich. Yeah, and that's what I... That's the counter argument. He's like, well, if he hasn't already agreed to that, agreed to some money now, would you add more?

Do you make him $15 million a year? Is that gonna make the difference? I don't know. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Ray Ferraro joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Ray, how are you?

I'm good. I just finished taking the podcast and now I'm talking to you donkeys and on my way to Los Angeles and I don't know, whenever the plane leaves. That's quite a come down, quite a come down from the four nations having to watch that and be, be a part of that, be in the building for that. And then Halford and Brff at seven oh three on a

Tuesday, on a wet Tuesday. So that game, the four nation ends on Thursday. I've got a game Saturday afternoon at three o'clock in Pittsburgh. And as I'm walking in, Sidney Crosby is driving in and I'm walking in, Sidney Crosby is driving in and, uh, you know, I'm walking in, he's driving to where the players park and, and, you know, we kind of see each other. And I just say, Hey, how are you doing?

And he's like, you know, like just a kind of tired, right? And I'm like, well, I'm exhausted. And I was just standing there. So like, I can't imagine how tired these guys must be to, you know, to just turn around after that. And we all feel it and we were just watching and they got to play. It's a challenge for sure.

How many times did you kind of take a moment to just look around and I know you were busy, but just appreciate the fact that you got to be kind of center stage observing that atmosphere and that type of hockey. Uh, well, I was there on the Saturday night, you know, in Montreal and I, you know, you turn around and the fans literally hang right over

the bench and you know, you look up at the bell center, it's so big. And, and I was like, man, this is like, it was amazing. It was a, of course that's the game with the three fights. It was just like a of course that's the game with the three fights it was just like a you know the noise was incredible the like the passion of it then to get to boston for the final and you know the rink is filled with the usa chance but like before the game and it was

it was a really special place to be like to be be in that tournament. And, um, I, Darren paying use this term. We were talking the other day, he said it was like a pop-up Christmas store. Um, you know, like you, that they put up in little towns and he's like, and all the great things of Christmas are there and then they're gone. And that's really what this was like. There's no way anybody saw this coming. No chance. really what this was like there's no way anybody saw this coming no chance no and it was I I think on every level it was better than what we all thought it could

be and now we're back to the season and you know we get through it and oh my gosh in two weeks here we've got this you know we've got this deadline and you know that's the the next phase of this whole thing. And then, oh boy, after that, you've got four weeks to the end of the year, like it's, or five weeks, it's going to happen super fast here. Um, let's talk about the Canucks top six. This is something that we were talking about

on the show yesterday. And as currently constructed, you've got Phillip Heidel, uh, between Brock Besser and Drew O'Connor, or Leas Pedersen between Kiefer Sherwood and Jake DeBresque. What, you know, there's so many people that text in and say, ah, this is boring, talk at hockey, he's got to find a way to get more offense out of the group.

If you're Rick Tauket, how are you getting more offense out of this group? Well, the one thing that people have to realize, and I read a little bit and I hear a bit about, oh, last year Pocket was coach of the year finalist and this year he can't coach. And like that's not possible. Like, right?

Like he can't, he didn't go to stupid school over the summer, right? Like, it just doesn't happen like that. So if you think he was a good coach last year, he's a good coach this year. Now, some of the things of last year aren't here, Miller in particular, and the Miller of last year, but they're just, offences is a problem.

And offense was a problem. If you look at them, you know, at the tail end of last year, and part of the problem is there. And I think they tried to address it a little bit with O'Connor's, they're not fast enough. So you have to get faster. You have to be more skilled. Well, where do you get more skilled? Nobody's giving you that.

It's hard to get if you don't have it. Um, so if I'm talking the one thing that I can do, and I'm sure he's blue in the face with it is try to get guys to shoot the puck, try to get movement in the offensive zone that creates shots. You know, what drives me crazy? It's the, um, the number of times there's a shot available and they shoot it for a shot tip. You can use the goalie as a backboard.

Don't shoot it where he can get his hands on it. Shoot it on his pads. There's a rebound, there's chaos, there's people around the front of the net. It's not going to be this all of a, there's chaos, there's people around the front of the net. It's not going to be this all of a sudden there's going to be great passing plays all over the place and you know you're going to you're going to look like the Oilers of the 80s like that's not going to happen. So you generate with speed, aggression and chaos and you generate chaos by shooting the puck.

The other thing is last, last game, um, but they had 15 shots. I think they missed the net or had blocked 36 times. Like the net guys has been in the same place for 200 years. It has not moved and it's frustrating to watch when guys are constantly, they miss the net. I'm not talking about a one-time shot from the blue line. Like, they're trying to get it around traffic and all that stuff, right? Like, and sometimes you just miss the net. But when there is a opportunity to get the puck on the net, it's got to be, there has

to be a more concerted understanding of that's got to hit the net first before I try to put it off the bar and in. And this goes through a team, it's like the flu. It's amazing. When everything goes well, pretty soon everybody's scoring, everybody feels good about themselves. When it's the other way, like it is right now, it goes through the team and the team is sick. Like offensively they're sick and it, it's a hard thing to break. It really is.

But the simple way you say about how did he, how do you generate offense? Well, the first way I guess is to get Quinn Hughes back because that, that certainly helps. Secondly, is a puck's got to be on the net. Their feet have to move to create space to shoot the puck. The shot gets a nice idea when it's there, but the puck to the net, the goalie is a backboard, the rebound, the fight for the puck, the jam around the net, that's how this team has to score.

And it's hard and it's ugly and that's just the way it is, but that's how it has to happen, in my opinion. So we ran the audio after the Utah game of talk and explaining, and he pointed out the exact same thing you did between the 21 blocked and the 15 missed. He said that's 30 something. I did the math. I'm like, it's 36 Rick. Shots that didn't get through and hit the net. And then he went very clearly and very explicitly through everything that they need to do in order to alleviate that. Like you said, like

move your feet more, get different angles to shoot the puck. Then when you shoot, the key is hitting the net, not missing it. I was like, that's a good point too. Like we should, they should definitely consider that. And then don't double clutch. He said that and I was obviously directed probably right at number 40.

Here's the thing. I feel like talk had said this countless times this season that within the framework of how we play, these are the things you need to do to hit the net. My question is why haven't they been able to implement those things yet because it doesn't seem like the biggest stretch like it's not he's asking him to reinvent the wheel he's just asking him to tweak the way that they're shooting the puck. Is that a mentality thing? Are

they not listening to the coach? Do they not have the right guys to do it? You said hit the net. I keep mixing this up. I was missing the net. My bad. Yeah. I think, okay. So they are, he is pointing out the obvious, right?

And I am pretty sure that I would assume these guys are in the NHL that they would understand that, you know, I'm not getting my shot through. Like you start looking at things less as a team and more as an individual. This is, you know, the old phrase, right? The weakest link in the chain. So the chain is the team, the link is you. And what am I doing to help this or not help this?

If you want an example of not moving your feet and of players that know better because we've seen it in the past, watch their last power play. Just go to it from last game and just watch it. Watch how many times they shoot the puck standing still and it gets blocked. And you're like, these these guys like if they look at it which they will and they'll you know because they'll be video and stuff they'll look at it and go you know what am I doing like it's amazing how many times you see yourself on video and go what am I doing and so now if you can understand it and again guys it seems so simple.

Like I'm telling you, I haven't had a pair of skates on in two years. I'm a way better player than I was when I played right now, because I never make any mistakes. Right? It's like, well, can't you see you should do that? And of course you should do that. When you're out there, there's a whole bunch of guys in the way. And your mind is the biggest obstacle to anything that you do. Like Brock Besser can't make himself faster, but he can move his feet.

I go back to when he first came and I thought that the one thing that's going to determine his success is can he get two feet of space to shoot the puck? Because the shot's never going to be the problem. It's going to be can he get the two feet? And there's sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. The other night he's one of the guys that shoots it standing still. He's a 30 goal scorer. He knows differently. And the reason you point him out is because

he's one of the guys that in this mix has to score. Same with Pedersen. Like, man, I don't understand it. I'm going to, you know, I think I said this before. I don't really quite understand the whole thing. Like what, like how does he go from 90 point guy to this? But his lack of mobility to shoot the puck. And again, I'm looking at moving two feet to get away from the guy that's checking you or to get around the block of the shot. I just don't understand it.

And it seems like it's pervasive through the team. Like they're wearing out shin pads right now. Yeah. And, and it's really, you know, they're frustrated, I'm sure it's frustrating to watch. And I'm sure it's frustrating to coach. Just watching how the guys in the four nations attack the middle of the ice.

I mean, there weren't many power plays, but, and I've watched Nathan McKinnon on the power play before and when he gets the puck, he's just, he's moving as he almost like before the pass gets to him, he's moving. He's kind of skating. Okay, but hang on. He's a different type of player, but.

Yeah, I was just going to say, let me, let me just, let me just say, that's a bad example because you're comparing, you know, like that's like saying, you know, your, your buddy's got a Porsche and you've got a Toyota Corolla. Why don't you drive the same speed? Okay. There's a couple other guys that stood out at

the four nations though, at the four nations though, like Jake Gensel is always moving. I thought Dylan Larkin had a really good tournament as well. And if you look at- You know who's a great guy there to compare with is Gensel because he's a good skater, not a great skater.

You know, like that, that I think that becomes, that becomes part of the equation. Like Larkin can fly, flat out fly. The guy, there were players in those games that I mean really great NHL players that looked pretty pedestrian at that level because of just the amazing pace that that stuff was played at.

So in here, as we're talking here, when you're on the wall, you have to have the realization in the one second that you have the puck that I can't stand here. I need to be 10 feet to the middle if I'm ever gonna score. And right now I think like that everything is just a little bit off. Like they have the puck, they have room, they think they've got space, but they're on the

boards. Like nothing happens. You know the way teams defend. They just leave you there and stand there all day. Nothing happens. You get six shots a period. Like the read of the play, the connection to do something, which is get to the middle, to shoot the puck, to move the feet around the blocker, like these things all have to happen together. And man, I'm with you. It's like, why doesn't it happen? It should happen. These players have done it before. Like, can they do it at a 40 goal level? No chance.

Most of them. It's not there, but there's, you can have a bunch of 22 goal scores. If that's the way you're built right now, but then your best boys, they better be your best. And so if Pederson's got no goals at 11 and Besser's got whatever he's got you know I don't know and Garland has gone really quiet and there's no Quinn like where the goals coming from right that I mean it's a legit question and you can depth players are depth players for a reason.

Like there's a reason guys score 15 goals. That means they don't score in 60 games a year. And if they all come together, then you've got a whole bunch of guys that are not gonna help you much offensively. We are speaking to Ray Ferraro here on the Haliford and Bruough show on Sportsnet 650. I do want to turn our attention to a team that has absolutely no problem scoring goals right now.

That was a team that you covered on the weekend, the Washington Capitals. You mentioned that game in Pittsburgh. You didn't mention that it was an 8-3 win for the Capitals. And then the Capitals decided for good measure, they were going to go out the next night and score seven on Edmonton. So 15 goals over two games against Cindy Crosby and Connor McDavid is pretty impressive. What did you see from Washington, especially offensively, and follow-up question, because we were talking about this yesterday,

do you see them as a bona fide Stanley Cup contender? Okay, Washington is an excellent case study. Because last year, I thought they were the most curious of playoff teams. I think their goal differential was like 37. It was crazy. They scored like 220 goals. They never scored and then they lost in four games to the Rangers. They had a couple of young players they were really excited about. Connor McMichael, Hendrix Lapierre, Alexi Protus. Lapierre hasn't hit.

He's back in the American League. McMichael and Protus. Protus had three goals in 56 games last year. And he's got 25 now or 24. Like he's a legit scorer, but he went away and they told him, you need to be in better shape to stay in the shift longer, that you don't run out of gas earlier. And so that was a lot of his focus. A lot was working on his shot. He's a new player. So those things hit for them. They got a couple of young guys that hit.

And then they had an amazing summer. Amazing. They trade a third and a fifth round pick for Logan Thompson. They signed Matt Roy as a free agent. They trade Nick Jensen in a second or third to Ottawa for Jacob Chickern. He's got 16 or 17 goals. They, they trade a second for Manji Apani. Uh, they signed Duhaime and then they make the big trade, Kemper for Dubois, which

was a pretty, you know, it took some courage to make that trade because Dubois now, you know, after a while there's not enough teams waiting for a guy with all the tools to hit. And he's been great. So they're, they are fast, they're aggressive. They, they are not fancy. Like they are not fancy at all. If you, if you watch their team, of course, I got the greatest goal score in the history of the game.

Stand in there, that doesn't hurt. And he's having an amazing year, but they just play fast and they for check and they're, they're in your face. And they're with Pittsburgh had no chance on Saturday. Um, so, and the second part of your question is, do they, are they a legit team? Yes, they are for me. They are. Uh, I think in the East there's four or five teams that you look at and you go, they're kind of all the same.

I mean, they're different, but they're all the same. There's no runaway super team this year. Anywhere. So anywhere. Yeah. the same. There's no runaway super team this year. Anywhere really. Anywhere. Yeah. So if you're in the mix, like if you're in one of those top five, six teams, I think you have to be aggressive here if you can. Like if you have

some assets to move because when is it going to be more wide open? You don't know, it might never be. Um, what do you think about the fit for Ranton in Carolina? I don't know how much you've been able to watch of his games, but I've seen a few things, um, where it suggests like maybe the fit with him and the system that they play isn't perfect.

Uh, I think that's a legit observation. I mean that's my opinion. When I think of Rantanen, I think of him holding the puck, slowing the play, moving around, looking for space, using his size, creating more room, and then around the net he finishes. Now, he hasn't finished very well and I do think that will you know that'll leave it its way out but the style of Carolina which is go and fast and straight and direct doesn't necessarily jive with him. And this is I mean this is not new I mean there are teams or there are really good players that don't fit with certain teams. And it just, sometimes it just doesn't work. And you're like, well, why is that guy so good here, but not there?

Some of it is stylistically the way it fits. And if I were Carolina and, you know, I don't know what the contractual discussions are all about right there. I'd be nervous. Like I'd be nervous that it gets to the end of the year and he says, yeah, this isn't working for me. And now you've traded Marty Natchez and you might not have him. I would be nervous about getting to that place. So I do think there is all kinds of pressure on this next two weeks

here, 10 days, whatever it is, till the seventh on Carolina to try and get a real understanding. Because I would be terrified of going to free agency with with ranting in right now, given what I've already given up and thinking, Oh, I might not get anything back. That that would be, that would be a tough one. You mentioned you're taking off to LA real quick. Did you happen to watch a game last night?

I did. Yeah. They look so much better offensively than I remember, especially last season when they really struggled to score goals. And we were, we had, we did like a five minute drew dowdy appreciation thing. I know obviously you got to watch them in the four nations face score goals. And we did like a five minute Drew Doughty appreciation thing. I know obviously you got to watch him in the Four Nations face off, but they just feel like a totally, I mean, I don't think I'm reinventing the wheel

with this analysis here, but they feel like a totally different team with him in the lineup than without. Well, there's personality and swagger and, you know, and F you, you know, I mean, that's basically Drew's whole game, right? He's always had it. Remember when he's playing in 2010 here, he's just a kid and he overslept the bus and shows up in the room, his hair is all over the place and, and, and then he plays great.

Like there's, there's something about that guy. Like he just, he just got it. But isn't it interesting, you know, Jim Hiller took over last year after Todd McClellan, he's, you know, doing a great job in Detroit and Detroit's scoring all kinds of goals. Well, how come LA couldn't score last year? This is, this goes back to the coaching thing again. Todd McClellan is not a bad coach.

Things didn't work in LA for whatever the reason was. They couldn't score. They go to Detroit. Now they're scoring like crazy. Same guy, different people. Systems probably the same. Jim Hiller was the interim coach last year and they were, man, you guys remember watching LA last year, you were poking your eyes out.

It was bad. And, and now you're like, they ran over Vegas last night. Like it was impressive in the third period, man. That was impressive. Well, if Byfield ever fully puts it together and he had a great game last night, that's going to be an even bigger help to LA.

I, I think, I think he's going to get it for, you know, when he got drafted and when he was on the world junior team, he was the youngest guy in the world junior tournament, two years in a row. Then he got drafted and he was the youngest guy in the NHL. And I mean, he's six foot five, right?

And you know, they played him on the wing last year, he's finally getting back to center, you know, time and patience and all the things that nobody likes to have, certainly in this game. And man, he looks like, he looks like a player. He really does. And it doesn't hurt that Kopi can still play. Yep.

You know, Kopitar can, he still plays, man. He is, he is the gold standard for, for that type of player for, you know, Colt Patarkin, he still plays, man. He is the gold standard for that type of player. For, you know, every team would love one of those, that's for sure. Well, you're going to get a chance to see all of them tomorrow. It's the Canucks in L.A. Ray, I know you got to get there. So travel safe, be well. Thanks again for doing this. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the game tomorrow night. Awesome. Thanks, guys. We'll talk to you next Tuesday.

Sounds good. Yeah a good one. Yep, thanks Ray. That's Ray Ferro here on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. With Besser, there is reason to believe he might leave some money on the table because he wants to be here. The question, I suppose, is how much money is he willing to forgo and how reasonable in his negotiations with all the leverage that he's got with his track record, with the fact that he's well liked,

the fact that he's still in his twenties. There's probably some team out there that's be like, yeah, we'll give you seven years. No problem. So how, how willing is he to be reasonable with the Canucks or give them a discount, especially considering the situation the Canucks are in right now.

It's not like they're right on the verge of winning a Stanley Cup or anything. I don't think the Canucks are all that interested in bringing them back. I think the die was cast five months ago. Remember that interview that Patrick Alveen had with Thomas Drance in the Athletic when they were talking about expectations

coming into this season? You remember the line that Alveen had for Besser? Or is it, you know, what was your off season message to Brock and it was that he scored 40 goals last year, but I told him that he could have scored 50. I felt he took his foot off the gas when he scored 30. I remember thinking at the time, like that's a crazy thing to say about a guy that scored 40 goals that when he comes in after the best season of his NHL career

and puts up 40 for your team, your response is, yeah, I thought you could have had 50. Do you think it's that surfer dude mentality? Like he's the rare surfer dude from Minnesota. Not a lot of, not a lot of, there's quite a lot of lakes there. A lot of water. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't know how water works. Not a lot of waves coming in on those. How lakes work. But he's got that kind of laid back mentality. And, and I wonder if sometimes that gets taken the wrong way is lacking intensity. I just don't think he's. It's gotta be inconsistency as well. Right? Like that's part of the message. Like he gets 41 year intensity. I just don't think he's going to be in consistency as well, right?

Like that's part of the message. Like he gets 41 year, 18 the next, like he's all over the place. Well, he's got 18 through 50 games this year. He's probably going to, I bet he ends up reasonably close to 30. What I'm saying is though, most goal scorers have that though. He's got that wave thing though, right? Like maybe that's part of their issue with him is like they sign him this eight year deal and you don't know what you're going to get from him next year.

Well, they gave Jake Nebraska big contract and he had 19 goals last season. That's true. Look I think that he wasn't close to what Besser is gonna get. No. I think there's two things here. I don't think he fits the particular playing profile that they want out of a winger moving forward and I think that goes back to what you were saying about foot speed and you know straight line skating ability. I also think that they're not all that worried about shaking up the core and the chemistry of this team. Cause if you've, I don't know if you've noticed, but there have been some pretty major moves already

in moving out. I mean, go through the list already, like Bo Horvat no longer here, JT Miller no longer here. Then start going through the rest of the core guys and identifying them as, oh, you know, are these guys gonna be here long-term? I'm not so sure. This, and this is meant- If anything, they wanna improve the chemistry.

This is meant, no, I think it's changing it up. Why, has there been dysfunction? Yeah. A little bit. Have there been rocky times? I think, and let me preface this by saying, I think Besser deserves a big lucrative long-term contract and I don't think he's gonna get it here,

but I think that the player, for everything that he's done, everything that he's gone through and the way that he bounced back last year, the way that he conducts himself, all of it. He's a great guy. And I think he's been a fantastic player in hitting 40 last year, which is a very, very tough thing

to do in the National Hockey League. And played well in the playoffs. Was great in the playoffs. Yeah. What would you say are the odds he's moved on the deadline? Oh, Halford seems to think it's pretty likely. I think if they don't move him at the deadline

and they do that thing, which they said they wouldn't do, which is you let an asset walk for nothing. Oh, they don't move them at the deadline and they do that thing which they said they wouldn't do which is you let an Asset walk for nothing. Oh, they won't you're listening to the best of Halford and brough