Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 2/3/25

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at a busy weekend in sports, plus they discuss the JT Miller trade as well as an overtime loss to the Wings with Canucks Central host Satiar Shah. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the goal, he scores! One thing now I think we've learned with Rutherford and Alveen, they'll do stuff like this. Yeah they'll do that. The only people who know Luke Udanchuk is the Dallas Mavericks. They must know something we don't know. Our bells ring out with joyous cheer, for Willie's forecast is crystal clear. Yes, an early spring is on its way! Good morning, Vancouver 601 on a Monday.

Happy Monday, everybody. It is Halford and it is Brough. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studios in beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning.

And Lydie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver.

We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. So there's so many different ways that you can consume the Haliford and Bref show. You can listen to it live on the radio. You can download the podcast. You can watch the stream on Sportsnet Plus. Currently, we are experiencing. I wouldn't call them technical difficulties, but you look so much larger than me. Now I'm the only person on the stream.

And now you just look bigger. If you tune into the stream, then you can watch Adog struggle badly to try and fix the shot. Yeah, I'm going to stop now. I got nothing All right, I can make it worse to complete failure. It's pretty great. It's not that bad. It just looks kind of funny every now I wonder why aren't we on TV and then I think of this moment Anyway, we do have a lot to get into on the show today It was a fairly eventful weekend in the world of sports particularly with your Vancouver Canucks The guest list today begins at 6.30.

Larry Brooks, Brooksie, long time Rangers columnist from the New York Post. He is going to join us after a wild weekend in which the Vancouver Canucks made a significant trade on Friday, not long after we got off the air. JT Miller to the Rangers, Phillip Heedle and Victor Mantini to the Vancouver Canucks. So we can ask Brooksie, like, what was the story with Heidel during his time with the Rangers? Because we only got that one game sample size last night, three, two overtime loss for the Canucks.

Pretty good sample. I was pretty impressed with Philip Heidel, you know, and Victor Mantini got to take the warmup. He looked fine in the warmup, but then I was told. Hey, he can skate and everything. We also got to ask Bruxy what it was like this weekend at Madison Square Garden the Rangers played games back-to-back JT Miller Two goals to assist four points in the two games

They got a big win over the Vegas Golden Knights on Sunday, so lots to get into with Bruxy at 630 He'll be joining the program 730 Marcus Fitzgerald who's the host of Basketball Central right here on Sportsnet 650. Despite the fact that it was a massive, massive weekend for the Vancouver Canucks, and we could probably fill all three hours with just Canucks talk, I think we'd be remiss not doing any NBA today,

because one of the most seismic trades in NBA history happened on Saturday night when Luka Doncic went to the Lakers and Anthony Davis went to the Mavericks. The reaction to that in the sports world, and that includes the players in the NBA, was incredible to watch because I don't know the NBA all that well compared to others.

And I was kind of like, well, that was interesting when I saw the news come down, but then like the people's reaction to that was almost bigger than the news to me. Because for a trade of that magnitude, for nobody to see it coming. Yes. Nobody, none of the parties involved had any idea

that it was happening. I mean, everyone was trying to do, what would the comparable be? And I'm not sure that there actually is one because of that dynamic. And trying to figure out the why from the Dallas side. Yeah, so we will talk to Marcus Fitzgerald at 7.30 this morning to try and get the why from the Dallas side.

There was another big trade as well, a three-way trade last night where De'Aaron Fox is now a member of the San Antonio Spurs playing with Wemby. So we can talk to him, Fitzy about all that at 7.30. Eight o'clock, Satyar Shah, you know him well from his time on Sportsnet 650. He's gonna join us at eight o'clock Satyar Shah. You know him well from his time on Sportsnet 650. He's going to join us at eight o'clock this morning.

I want to talk to Sat about what could be next for the Canucks because he mentioned this a little bit on the Canucks broadcast last night in the intermission, but also he tweeted it out that the Canucks are going to be in the market to add an impact forward. So I want to ask them like, who are you thinking of or how are they going to be in the market to add an impact forward. So I want to ask them like, who are you thinking of or how are they going to do that? Those sorts of questions, because there may be,

like, I don't know, does this, is this before the trade deadline that they're hoping to do this? Or is this more of an off season plan to add an impact forward to the Canucks because right now they're lacking impact forwards. And I don't even know, honestly, don't even know if they have one. Uh, and finally it is Superbowl week.

Of course, our Superbowl coverage is probably going to shift to the latter half of the week. We're going to have Mike Tannier, we're going to have Nick Schuch. We'll talk a lot about it as we get closer to Sunday. I'll remind you that all of our guests this week, including Moj, are a presentation of the Clayton Public House. Pre-game to post-game, the Clayton Public House is your home of football. Catch all the action on 15 screens and two giant projectors.

Visit them online at theclaytonpub.com. Working in reverse on the guest list, 8 o'clock Satyar Shah, 7.30 Marcus Fitzgerald, and 630 Larry Brooks is going to join the program. That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca.

In one of the most profound franchise altering mid-season trades in Vancouver Canucks history on Friday, the Vancouver Canucks acquired forward, Phillip Heedle, defenseman Victor Mancini, and a first round pick, although they didn't keep that for long, in the 2025 draft in exchange for JT Miller. Hours after that, while we had already consumed the JT Miller news and a couple beers en route to

see Shane Gillis Friday night at Rogers Arena, there was another trade. That first round picked we talked about, that's out the door. That goes to the Pittsburgh Penguins, along with Danton Heinen and Vincent De Harne. In exchange for defenseman Marcus Pedersen and forward Drew O'Connor, a very profound weekend

for the Vancouver Canucks. Jason. I was laughing actually thinking about it, because we did go out for beers before the Shane Gillis concert or whatever you call it, standup comedy. And the server was asking us what we thought of the trade and he was like, well, you know, you get

that first round draft pick, so you know, that's another guy to pick and all of us, me and you, and even ADOG was like, they ain't making that pick, brother. That pick ain't making it to Saturday. That is, yeah, that is not happening. Like they are flipping that and they flipped it within hours and obviously that trade was

somewhat already in the bag. So let's talk about the positives about this deal first and then maybe not necessarily the negatives, but like, oh, what are they going to do now? Positives. The positives, The positives. And I think it starts with an opportunity for the noise to die down and get focused on hockey.

Now granted, this is just an opportunity. You have to make, you have to take advantage of the opportunity and certain guys do have to step up. But I did think it was interesting what Rick Tauke had to say last night after the game, which we will get to in just a sec, but this seems bigger. The Canucks did play yesterday. Here's Rick Tauke talking about the fresh start that the Canucks are going to get because of this. I think there's a lot of games left. And there's some guys that have not,

say they're, whatever, not a year that they want. But there's plenty of games to turn the page and refresh. So as much as for the whole team to refresh, other guys can too, just, you know, this is kind of, okay, we've got the trades and stuff over for now. And this is our team. So we can just kind of like, let's start, every start at zero

you know I mean I think sometimes if you do that you reset even for guys that have struggled this year just reset your brain you know come up with a good attitude work hard you know those are the things that are gonna get you out of slumps but just new guys coming in adding some speed stuff I think it's contagious also too. Okay. The old brain reset. Reset the brains. And he also said we added some speed and I think we saw that last night, especially with Phillip

Hedl, maybe not on the back check in overtime, but you know, that was an homage to JT Miller. He was also very tired. Drew O'Connor and Phillip Hedl, both really fast players. And I think we saw that again last night and the Canucks needed to add some speed. They might still need to add some speed.

And frankly, I have always wondered if speed is one of the reasons they're kind of waffling on resigning Brock Besser, but we'll get to that later. Okay. Last, but so last but not least on, on the, the positives about this deal. Um, I think we can start to see the makings of a much better blue line with Quinn Hughes, Phillip

Peronek, they're already there, but then you add Marcus Pedersen and that's a big ad because that's top four guy, uh, DPD played really well last night. So that's another one. You've got Mancini and we can talk to Larry Brooks about him, but I was tweeting or DMing. I don't like to say I was DMing with this guy. You slid into who's the MC. Yeah, yeah. So Arthur Staple, I was asking him about the deal,

we were just chatting and he said that he likes Mancini and he thinks that he has quite a bit of upside. So, you know, that's another guy. And of course there's Tom Willender, who's could be, if the Canucks make the playoffs, he could be in the lineup for the playoffs or at the very least, I think he's going to be certainly turning pro soon.

So you've got the makings of a much better blue line. Absolutely. Um, and I would be shocked if the Canucks don't resign Marcus Pedersen. I'm, I'm, you know, they're, they were confident, they're confident that they can get it done, but if they don't, they're going to have to flip them.

Yes. You're going to have to flip them at the deadline because that's something that needs to get done. So I'll ask you, I went through the three positives, an opportunity for the noise to die down, much needed speed upfront, and then the makings of a better blue line with Marcus Pedersen and Mancini being added to the mix.

Which one is the most positive for you? Number one, number one, definitely. Really? Yep. Yep. Okay. Here's the thing. I think at certain points, this entire market Number one, number one, definitely. Really? Yep, yep. Okay. Here's the thing.

I think at certain points, this entire market got way too infatuated with the interpersonal dynamics of Pedersen and Miller. And at times, I think that it became almost a willing distraction to not pay attention to the on ice product, if that makes any sense. Like I think people were more than happy to dive into this unresolved issue because it was unresolved and it was almost an easy way to hand wave the problems that the team

was having on the ice. It's like well how are they supposed to play? How are they supposed to do the things that they can do with this huge elephant in the room? How are they supposed to focus on playing with the rift gone or with the rift still there? And I'm going to miss the endless trade speculation. Although I think, you know, like part of me was like when they completed the Miller trade and then turn around and made the Pedersen trade, I woke up Saturday morning scratching and like, you got any more of those trades? Like I wanted more. Well, they might. Yeah, right. And it still might happen. You know, they might. But the trade, I doubt Pedersen, first Pedersen, Elias Pedersen, we're going to have to figure that out by the way, but I doubt he's going anywhere.

I think that might be resolved for the time being. Not yet. For the time being. So let's get. Thanks, week. Anyway. Let's get to our, let's get to our specialty here. Worrying.

Yep. Cause the Canucks lost a really good player. This is a team that was already struggling to create scoring chances and one that already looked a little light upfront, soft some might say, compared to some of the contenders. Right now, do we see enough impact forwards on this roster?

So when you tweeted out on Friday and I actually retweeted it last night with a Simpsons gag, um, that the primary focus right now on this team is going to be who's going to score the goals and are they going to be able to score enough? That's going to be the, don't make me tap the sign for the rest of the season for this group.

Cause I think we saw it last night. Yeah. Like Rick Tauke mentioned when discussing the Besser, Pedersen, Debrecht line, he talked about specifically like they got to bear down and find the back of the net. Because the F1s and the impact forwards, you're those guys now, right? Debrecht, Pedersen, Besser, you're those guys. You're the ones that we're going to rely on for scoring. Let's hear Rick talk it after last night's game.

The same as you. Same as you. We had three on one, we had a couple of two on ones. We're missing the net connecting. I didn't think they had many chances all tonight, but they had a couple of rush chances. It's in our net net. So we got to really got to hit the net We got to make you know, we got we got to make those moments count. So there was a stat floating around last night I think it was Patterson's Since the calendar turned to 2025 the Connexia played six games at home in January they've scored three goals once and every other game has been two or less.

They don't score enough. And I think that that that stat was really exacerbated this weekend when you see JT Miller go to the Newark Rangers and have an immediate offensive impact and rack up four points in two games. Now, I know, I know that it's a different scenario and different situation and a player has moved on and he's got new energy with his new team, different dynamic, different line mates, all that stuff.

Whatever, the point being that when you talk about a team that is struggling to score and they trade away a guy that goes and blows up straight away after the trade, people are gonna look back on it and they going to be like, is this team, does this team have the capabilities to find the back of the net with regularity? I thought it was like the perfect thing that you said when you tweeted it out, who's going to score

for this team because that is going to be the focal point now, to be more pressure on more guys and quite frankly, more pressure on more guys that haven't got the job done this year. So the good news from last night is that I thought Philippe Hito was probably their best forward. So maybe he's a guy that with a bit of a change of scenery and fingers crossed that he can stay

healthy, can develop into an impact forward for the Canucks, but we'll have to wait and see on that. I'm sure he was full of adrenaline last night and wanted to make a good first impression. And as we know, you know, the key to being a great hockey player really is, well, being great, but also the consistency of being great. Also staying healthy in his particular case.

Um, the Elias Pettersson story, not Elias and not Marcus, Elias Pettersson story is very much unfinished in Vancouver. Can he embrace the pressure and find his game again, and if he can't, what's going to happen? Because last night, he looked the same. He looked the same. Not a lot of speed, not a lot of burst.

Tried to make a few plays, did make a couple of nice passes. Made a very nice saucer pass. Was it Besser? Well, there was. A little flip saucer pass. Yeah, I think that there was that one and then he also made a nice cross-ice pass to Besser,

which, you know, Besser tried to fire into the skates of Debrecht and really probably should have just put it on goal. Yep. Patterson had a chance in overtime too, didn't finish. But missed the net. Yep. chance in overtime too. Didn't finish. But missed the net. Yep.

But missed the net. Didn't finish. And I guess you could say, well, at least there are some chances, but he does not look as explosive as he used to. And I don't know why tendonitis not coming to camp in shape, maybe not strong enough, who knows? And at this point, I'm not going to say who cares, because I care, but he better figure it out. Because he will be gone in the off season if he doesn't figure it out. Like I have no questions about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't either anymore. Like the gauntlet has been thrown down like 50 times by not only the fan base, but his bosses and you know, I just don't think like, if he doesn't perform, there's no way they can keep him in this market because the vitriol coming into the Dunbar Lumber text line for Pedersen is already off the charts and it's been one official game without JT Miller. Yeah, they played against Dallas without him in

the lineup, but you know, like that, well, yeah, that, that, you know, this was the first home game and Filipino was like way better than Pedersen last night in terms of his energy. If you have any vitriol to send into the Dunbar Lumber text line, 650-650, you can text in, Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years.

Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dunbarlumber.com. Patrick Alveen over the weekend said, you know, he was asked about the added pressure that's on Elias Pedersen. And he said, that's part of being a professional hockey player, especially when you commit to that kind of contract, my expectation is higher on him than anyone else on our team.

And I expect him to meet my expectation and I expect him to meet his own expectation. And so far he has not done that. If you talk to him, he's disappointed, but he's aware of it, and I know that he's capable, and he will work at it. I think most of us saw the clip of Pedersen over the weekend going, yeah, I want that pressure.

I'm like, buddy, you got it. So the reason that when we were talking about the positives of this deal, right, and we were like, it's an opportunity for the noise to die down and get focused on hockey and You kind of push back you're like really that's the one well part of it is like I think that that positive Leads towards the resolution on Pedersen and just is like it's straightaway now, right? It's just looking right down the barrel at him and say hey Now there's even a time crunch on this entire thing. Because you floated the idea, I think it was about a week ago,

you're like, what if it works like this? The inevitable JT Miller trade comes to fruition, they get them out of the room, and then that gives this management group however many months, six month window before the Pedersen's No Movement Clause kicks in, where they can look at the entirety of the situation how many months, six month window before a Pedersen's no movement clause kicks in, where they can look at the entirety of the situation

and say, okay, now, now we've really got all of the excuses out, right? You've got your winger that we brought in in Nebraska, they were reunited again last night. We've given you time to get over the fact that maybe you didn't come into camp in the greatest shape and you weren't ready to go. We got rid of the problem that is JT Miller. Everything is there,

everything. And this is the time to analyze. And you know what? The other thing too is, um, like scrutinize, like all of the executives. And I think at a certain point, the coaching staff as well, and that's what talk was alluding to last night, or like, Hey, the bar's up here, right? We're no, no more dropping the bar, or no more looking for tiny little flashes of, is he back or isn't he?

This is the bar, this is where you gotta be, go and get it, right? He's the unquestioned, I hate saying leader, because it feels almost comical, given how he's played, but there's a very big understanding now that with Miller gone and what a driver he was, you're the game breaker. Like last night, I thought it was interesting.

I was listening to the post game show and Sap brought up an interesting point. He's like, Hughes is out of the lineup. So one of your game breakers is not there. In those moments, any team in the NHL is looking at its other significant game breaker to be a difference maker. In a 2-2 game against a Detroit team that was hanging on and was in the second of a back-to-back and the game is hanging in the balance, that's where your best, when you use that cliche of your best player stepping up, those are the moments when you do it. When the game's hanging in

the balance, you need something special to take over. You need someone to make a play, score a goal, do something above the norm. And it wasn't Pedersen last night. It was Philip Heidel, the new guy. Right. Yeah. And that's, and that's where I'm, I'm still very curious to see how this whole thing turns out. I think I know, I think personally, I know how it's going to turn out.

I find it with every passing day, I'm less, I know how it's going to turn out. Mm-hmm. I find it, with every passing day, I'm less and less optimistic that there's going to be this flick of the switch moment. Well, it's already exhausting and we're 22 minutes into Pedersen without Miller on this show. There's a bunch of people texting in saying, trade him. He's, you know, saying some mean stuff. And then people like Paul and the Okanagan are saying this fan him. He's, you know, saying some mean stuff. And then people like Paul and the Okanagan are saying, this fan base is never happy

and will find another whipping boy and now trying to increase the noise just after two days. Yeah. Welcome to the market. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. We just played, or we didn't play audio, you paraphrased it. I mean, that's a clip from the general manager. Yeah, I know, I know, I know.

I mean, it's a ridiculous sentiment. I mean, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? It's a ridiculous sentiment. Like, Petey says he wants the pressure. Okay. Alvin said the pressure's on, let's see if he can meet expectations.

I mean, instead of being scared of this, instead of being scared of this, be curious. And I was like, just be curious. This is a fascinating psychological profile that we're getting right now. I don't know how he's going to react to this. I don't know how he's going to handle this. But here's what I do know. There has not been a player under this much pressure in Vancouver since Roberto Luongo was here.

Yeah, and the wrinkle right now, I guess you could maybe say when the choice was made to keep Luongo over Schneider, like the choice here was you keep Pedersen over Miller. And fair or not, that's how a lot of people are viewing it right now. Like we were out of the Shane Gillis show on Friday, and anecdotally, while standing in line both to get beers

and in the washroom, I heard plenty of that. Plenty of it. It was a bit of a JT Miller crowd there I'll be honest with you too. Millerish vibes. Yeah, they were like laying flowers outside the arena in his memory. But now we're not at the show anymore.

We're looking in the Dunbar Lumbertex, Mr. Jim Basket and it's the same sort of thing. And I mean, people are asking that. I've had countless people go into this weekend, like, did they trade the right guy? And I'll refrain from what I said my answer was. I think the people asking the question, this is the important part of this.

Because, you know, that part of the equation has been solved. Like Miller and Pedersen weren't gonna get along. There needed to be a subtraction error. They made their choice. They made their choice. They made their equation. The aftermath, and we talked about this at length on this show before the trade happened,

was always gonna be, well, if one of them gets shipped out and one of them stays, what does life look like for the other one in the aftermath? Because it's always going to be in the court of public perception, you chose one over the other. And so the guy that sticks around is gonna have a lot of pressure on him

and is gonna have to deal with being the anointed one. And the guy that leaves is always gonna be monitored to see what he's doing elsewhere. I mean, I had it in the notes right away. I watched the game on Saturday when Miller made his debut for the, re-debut for the Rangers against Boston. Madison Square for the, re debut for the Rangers against Boston. Madison Square Garden made a big debut. Yeah, against Boston.

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Sorry. No, no, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was, that was one in Boston. That was in Boston. Sorry. And then Sunday at Madison Square Garden, like there was an energy there.

There was a shot in there. We'll talk to Brooksie about this because he's gonna join the program in a few minutes. Like they're excited to get JT Miller in the door in New York. They think that that's going to turn the season around. They think that that's going to bring the edge, the attitude, the intensity. You know what was funny?

The offense. I saw someone, I think it was, might've been a Rangers reporter tweeted out, um, JT Miller just smashed his stick on the ice. There's the energy that the Rangers have been looking for. I saw that too. Right? the energy that the Rangers have been looking for. I'm sorry. That's it.

Right? I was laughing so hard when I saw that. I thought we needed more of that. I was like, yeah, guys that care. Yeah. Guys that are willing to smash their stick. Can you yell at some of your teammates, please? Potentially practice?

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. 803 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour three of the program.

Satya Arshad is going to join us in just a sec here to kick off our three. Here we go. Hour 3. Here we go! Hour 3 of this program is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell & Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell-Pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintex Studio. Kintex Footwear and Orthotics working together with you and Steph. We were stepping over each other there. I wasn't.

Smooth, gentlemen. Smooth. I was doing my thing you're distracted by the baseline going for a walk someone was stepping on me that's how I saw it I apologize you don't apologize just acknowledge it you're a failure I acknowledge that best segment ever every time we have sat on it's usually in the middle of some passive I acknowledge that. That's the best segment ever. Every time we have sat on, it's usually in the middle of some passive aggressive moment where we're fighting with one another across the dinner table.

And saddest poor Jesse Pinkman, just trying to enjoy a meal. He joins us now. You're gonna wear that today? Again? Are you wearing a bow tie to impress Sat? Satir Shah joins us now on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Sat?

What's going on? I'm like Jesse from Breaking Bad watching a Walter and Skyler go at it. This guy drinking my water quietly. Gripping it as tight as possible. Like I hate every moment of this. Uh, where do you want to begin here? Where should we start?

There's so many things to get into. I know, I know. We've, I know. What's next for the Canucks? Because I know you tweeted out and mentioned this on the broadcast that, um, now that they've made a trade of JT Miller leaving and it looks like they've, they've short up the defense.

At least people are more optimistic about the future, both short term and long term of the Canucks defense. They're looking at this forward group now and going, I don't know if there's enough impact forwards in this group. Yeah. And it's, and it's pretty obvious, right? I mean, we all look at the forward group now and going, I don't know if there's enough impact forwards in this group. Yeah. And it's, and it's pretty obvious, right?

I mean, we all look at it for a group and it's clear that now with JT gone, they could certainly use another real driver and, and it's good to see he'll look last night, you know, we'll see how, how long he's going to maintain that level. Can you keep playing 18, 20 minutes a game and, and really grow into that role. So, so we'll see. But even with that,

the things that I've heard is they're very much on the lookout for somebody in that mid 20 age range. And I think preferably it would be a center. The biggest thing that's in their way. And I think they have a few guys that they would love to add. But the problem is a couple of those teams are in playoff pushes and playoff runs. And I know people always ask about, because Quinn Hughes and Josh Norris have been very tight glass, could that be a guy, so we heard Norris' name be out there. The biggest issue with a team like Ottawa is they're in a playoff race. And if they're trading a center in season, it's pretty tough for them. So does a team like that fall out of a playoff race?

And if that happens, does it kind of expedite things by the deadline? If not, I think the off season is going to be very interesting and then free agency is going to be difficult. So I think the trade market is the most realistic way for you to find that center long-term. And it could always be a wing. Like if Hedl, if they can't make a deal about the trade deadline, you get to the off season and they really feel like Hedl is the guy. Then I think the focus might shift somewhat towards finding somebody who's more of a wing that can score. But if you look at how the roster is built and as good as Garland's been, they clearly lack another forward that can drive.

And I think they're very well aware of this. And even before moving JT, I think there was a thought that this team still needs another forward, a guy that can score, whether that's a wing or a center. But especially somebody, whether it's a Lindholm type or a guy that can really put the puck in the net, they felt like they need one more impact guy. And with JT gone, that just creates more urgency around it. And the biggest question I'm going to have is what are they willing to part with to make that deal?

And I'm not sure anything is truly off the market for the right player if they can find him at some point here by the deadline or the draft. What did you think of Hidal last night? I thought he looked great. You know, he, he, he showcased all the things that people like about him. And he also showcased some of the issues some coaches have had with him as far as some of his defensive coverage and maybe not being the right spot, but as far as how well he skates and how he, like coach said, demands the puck and how

he wasn't afraid of cutting through the neutral zone. He was very direct. The one thing that was really noticeable from Drew O'Connor and from Hito, it was how often they drove towards the net. There was a couple of times where Hito had the puck by the wall, just by the goal line, and he drove straight to the net. It was no messing around, holding on, going to the point or going behind the net. He just drove the net.

One time he had a chance, the other time he passed it off to create a chance for one of his teammates. And I think having that directness is something that's forwarded because it really lacked, right? And I saw the jokes, people being like, well, it's because talking hasn't coached the offense out of him yet. And we'll all see kind of how that goes over the next little bit, but talking himself said, right, like you said, after the game, like he liked the fact that

Heidel was holding on to the puck, was driving through the neutral zone, was getting zone entries and creating chances. It's more about time and place, I think sometimes, if you have to end your shift, maybe, you know, be smart about it. But you also saw an overtime on that back check. Yes, he was on the ice for a long time, but those are the types of things that have led to some trust being eroded in the past and why he's never moved off being a third line center. And hopefully what we saw last night is something that he's going to be able to continue to do moving forward.

Do you think Tauchet does bear any of the responsibility for the lack of, of scoring? Like I, I'm mostly on the side of his players need to play better, but I do wonder if the, the mindset that was created last season, which was a defense first mindset has somewhat affected the players. Yeah, I think what's happened is there's a real

muscle memory right now, as far as just defer to doing the most basic, simple thing and the safest thing possible. Like there was a play in particular last night, simple thing and the safest thing possible. Like there was a play in particular last night. It wasn't the first period too. It was Drew O'Connor when one of his many zone entries and, and excavates in the, in the opposite zone where he hit, um, few suitor. He was kind of down at the bottom of the right circle.

And you could see suitor was already kind of looking at the point. He was already thinking that Drew O'Connor is going to pass this puck to the point. He looked for no moment thought that he might give me the puck here. And then Sudo didn't know what to do and ended up just skating himself into the corner by the blue line and loses the puck. But he looked confused as somebody found him in space. And it just seems like the guys are just constantly deferring this to club muscle memory doing the simple most basic thing. Right. And how much of that is on the coach? How much of that is on the players? And I do think some degree when a team is unable to break through its pattern,

especially that muscle memory pattern, it does fall on the coaching staff to find a way to break through that. And what are the reasons why you fell into it? Maybe the simple answer is you don't have enough guys that play winning hockey that can do it consistently. And I think maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, you've got a lot of stuff going on. They've deferred and done that. But what can the coach do to break you out of that spell?

And even if you want to don't want to blame him, when I hear a coach say repeatedly, I'm telling them them to do this, to do X, they do Y. Why does that keep happening? At some point, how do you find a way to get through to them doing something different? We're speaking to Satyarshah, Canuck central host here on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. It's a tough morning for Sat by the way, because Miles Garrett has requested a trade.

Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Did you know this Sat? Uh, I'm sorry, Miles Garrett has requested a trade? Yeah, he just asked for a trade out of Cleveland. Yeah.

Oh, sorry about that. I should just say it in bed. Oh man. Now he's off kilter for the rest of the interview. That's fine. I did want to ask... No, I'm sure the Browns will be fine. They're good. They're good. I mean, listen, we had a two-year stretch where we won one football game, so I mean... It's huge. It was a big game. It is pretty crazy that they will have had one of the greatest and most dominant defensive players of his era playing at his peak. And there's so precious little show for it, but I digress.

Let's talk more about the Vancouver Canucks. So the line with Pedersen and Besser and Debrusk, I kind of positioned it earlier that in theory it should work, but in practice it doesn't look like it will and I do wonder if it falls at the feet of Debrus like he almost needs to be the guy that's going to go in dig and retrieve pox and be the guy that gets in first and keep plays alive maybe he doesn't recognize it yet or he's not aware like maybe he needs a tap on the shoulder but I'm curious your thoughts on that trio after what you saw from them last night. I traded them

all for Miles Garrett. He's just sad as a rattle. Sad didn't hear any of that question. What are you talking about? Is it about Drew O'Connor? Right. I mean I'm with you though, like that line, they don't really have somebody that can dig pucks out, right? Like Debrecht is supposed to be that player and he has speed, but you're also seeing some of the reasons why Debrecht can be a player that's frustrating. Like you see him be on top of his game and he's skating hard. And if you look at, you know, by skating speed, by the age data, he's actually the third fastest skater forward on the team now behind Drew O'Connor and behind Fidel Lupito. But he doesn't always utilize that speed, right?

He's not always aggressive enough on the forward check and isn't always play with that urgency that you need. And I think aligned with Pedersen, we've seen the best versions of it. And in JT Miller's first year, JT Miller was an absolute forechecking demon the first year playing left wing with those guys, right? Like he was first on Pox, incredible among the walls. He would make plays into space from behind the net from the sidewall. And that's where Pedersen really shown and sort of better with his ability to finish. But you don't have that guy on that line right now. And as good as best there is, we know his pages in there. And I actually noticed him try to skate a little harder on the

four check recently, but just doesn't have that explosive enough push to get there. And I just, I'm with you. Like I'd rather see whether it's Sherwood, you keep the brush or whether it's even O'Connor on the left wing and you keep betteresser, I think you have to find somebody on that line that has speed and really digs tucks out. Even with Kuzmanko, when we have Mikheyev with them, Mikheyev helped do a lot of those things when they had some success before you had to bow out with a knee injury. I think having that type of player on that line would make it a lot more effective.

I just don't see the brusque being an aggressive and a consistent enough four checker to make that line work. So there's still a lot of the season left and a lot of the story still to be written, but I want to get your opinion on a couple of things right now. Is it more likely or more unlikely that Elias Pettersson is a Canuck next season. Ooh, man. Uh, okay.

So I will say more likely, but very slightly. Like, I don't think it's like, I don't want to say 50-50 because I think that's a cop out, but I'd say it's, it's more likely he stays just because the contract's big, his play hasn't been great, the valuation they have is high and they've already moved off JT and trying to replace both those guys becomes difficult. But it's still a big possibility here.

And I think the way he's going to play, he plays especially to the deadline even, because I think that's the first marker we have to pass. And even if he plays well, I wouldn't be shocked guys that we see teams circle back and it's next to at least listen. So we hear some more rumors in the next few weeks, like wouldn't shock me but one likely goes at the deadline but if we get to the end of the season and he hasn't played well right or even this team makes the playoffs and it's very much more of the same i can see there being real urgency to make something happen by the draft and i think that they haven't been obviously excited with what they've seen. They've all said it.

I mean, they talked about how he hasn't been good enough. Rutherford said it. Alvin has said it. And they said all the right things about believing he can do it. But when you are going on over a calendar year when a player has struggled, if you go to two playoffs, the player has struggled and now JT has gone and all these other things have happened, are they truly still believing in him as a guy to build around? And I think that trust has been shaken with how things have gone this past calendar year.

So I don't think just because JT has gone, guys, that it guarantees Pederson stays here. I think the rest of the season is monumentally important as far as his performance, if he truly wants to be a Vancouver Kenneau. But what complicates this is the worse he plays, the worse his value gets. So the Tex don't find themselves in a good spot here. I'll ask the same question about Brock Besser. Okay. So Brock, I think, so the one thing I'm wondering

about Brock guys is how much of these tactics, whether you call them hardball or not delving too far into it is the connects expressing a desire to move him and they're just keeping in that distance or how much of it this is. Let's see how badly Besser wants to stay and let's see if he's truly willing to take significantly below market value. But what that all tells me is that there's a number that they're not sure Besser wants to take that they would be willing to sign him for. And with the cap going up and with the situation being what it is,

and the closer you get to free agency, that's better just wrap its head around. You know what? It's been a gong show in Vancouver anyways. I know we wanna stay here and him and his partner is loving in Vancouver, but did he get to a point where he just realizes, I can make significantly more money elsewhere

and it's just maybe time to move on. If that happens, I think the talks will break off. I'd say right now it's more likely it gets moved and not by the trade deadline. I think it's a bit different than Pettersons because obviously his contract's up and as much as Alvin said, oh, he might be our own rental. If they're keeping him, I think that's with an eye to actually sign him. I just can't see them letting him walk, especially when they're so acid poor as they currently are. Do you expect Marcus Pedersen to, do you expect them to announce an extension for him anytime basically? Yeah, I mean because

they haven't really discussed terms with the agent, it still may take like a week or so, right? They have to hammer out what the number looks like and all the protections and all the payouts. Those things can take a little bit of time, especially when you haven't had discussions that they haven't, as they said, they haven't with the agents so far. But the expectation is to get something done there with them. Absolutely. I think Pederson has a desire to have a quiet life from this point on and he's had so much

respect around his situation with Pittsburgh. And I think if he if he's happy with Vancouver, he'd like to get something done too. So I don't foresee it being a big issue. My biggest question is, is there going to be some sticker shock ultimately when he signs? And I think you look at his contract now is making $4 million in a bit. The contract range is going to be somewhere in the four and a half to five and a half range. And if he gets five, like I don't think you should be overly shocked. I think that's just where the market is going with the fencemen, especially how few of them make its market nowadays.

Um, I'll throw this out there and you tell me whether, where this top forward rank in the NHL Hughes with Myers, Pedersen with, uh, Horonick. I mean, it's, it's probably considering how thin blue lines are in the NHL. It's the top half of the league top four. Yeah. Right. Like, Like it looks a top half of the league top four. Yeah. Right?

Like it looks a lot better with just the addition of Pedersen, doesn't it? It's amazing, but one legitimate top four defenseman can do for you, right? And I think the other thing is, if he can truly be that lynchpin number three, this is what Shane talks about, he calls the number three defenseman of lynchpin,

as long as that guy is good defensively, it's decent five on five with his puck moving, but can also play the matchup role. And that's exactly what Pederson has profiled to be. So if he can be that guy, I mean, you're really set as far as having guy that can handle a deep pair in a shutdown role. He was in Hughes, obviously. And if Myers can keep doing his thing, you're not worried about that. And for own, it gives you obviously a big edge on it too.

And your third pair looks fine at this point. But if you start looking around the league, I think people would be surprised how poor a lot of NHL blue lines are. The Cucks biggest issue, yes, I mean, with lacking in top four, but their depth was really bad too. They didn't even have guys who were credible really playing on the third pair.

Whereas a lot of teams had those guys, but this shoots them up significantly because that's how thin blue lines across the league are. That if you add a top four player, you probably move up at least seven, eight ranks. Yeah, we were talking about this earlier. My rule is if you can have two pairs that you feel good about, then you're fine.

Like your third pair might not be terrific, but if you've got two pairs that when they're on the ice and they're going to be on the ice for, you know, 45 minutes of the game, then you're feeling okay about it. And the Canucks just haven't had this, this season. And one of the big reasons for that is the play of Carson Sousi, who was a healthy scratch last night.

Do you think his contract would be movable? I think so. I think you can. I just don't think you're getting anything of significance for it, but I do think that you could move it, especially once you get to the off season. Like I think when you start looking at what's going on around the league and the needs to those

spots, I think you could probably get something out of the books in that way. Yeah. And how are you feeling about the youth of the defense? I mean, we talked about, you know, you got it for now, you got maybe a top four that includes Hughes, Hronik, Pedersen, and I guess Tyler Meyers,

if they want to put that pair back together, I thought, I think it's looked pretty good, those two together. And if you want to spread the wealth, Hronik down to the second pair with Pedersen. They've also got to be feeling pretty good about some of the young pieces they've got coming. I mean, Elias Pedersen, DPD is starting to arrive.

I'm sure there'll be some bumps along the road, but he certainly looked good last night. They've got Tom Willander waiting. They've got Victor Mancini, who they got from the Rangers and then other guys like Kudryasev down in the AHL. All of a sudden, like it's weird, but like all of a sudden I'm feeling significantly better

about the Canucks defense. Yeah, because I mean, and I think the big part about it is taking guys away from spots that can't handle, if you take a guy out of a spot where he's playing 20 minutes a game, but can't handle it, he's just going to be drowning. But if you put a guy into the third pair and he can just kind of play his game, I think you're

seeing far better performances. And I think they've done a good job, especially with DP getting into a fairly sheltered role and he's played really well. The three games he played so far in the NHL. But I'm with you as far as feeling better about the depth long-term. And I think that's what the organization feels too. But now that you've added Pedersen, you have Gronach and you have Hughes and Myers assigned with two more years, you have Bielander coming too, right? There's only so many spots on the team. Do you cash in on one of these guys at some point here? And, you know, we talked about the big piece, right? To try to add another forward and something Alvin mentioned already when they're talking to other teams, teams are asking them about even if it's not Bielander, if it's not Lech Gramacchi, Peterson's name comes up quickly,

right? So does Kudrat grace is a name like these guys are considered assets now from other teams in the league. And you just talked about all the depth that they have. You can't keep all guys. Now you always want to keep as many as you can because they won't all pan out and the hope is one or two do. And if they do, you're fine.

But that's the one area they have a little bit of depth in all of a sudden, right? Especially when we're through their prospect pool and with the addition of Pedersen giving them the real legitimate NHL depth, if you signed a five-year, six-year contract, like you're locked into three spots in your blue line for a long time, especially if Hughes does sign long-term, two in a year or two. So there's only so many other spots that you've got to grow into. So you feel great about it as far as you have cheap talent coming up, it fill up your third there and perhaps you have a succession plan now internally for a guy like Tyler Myers in a year or a year and a half and one of your

landers ready. And I think you also now have the ability to move one of those prospects or perhaps two of them in a trade or separate trades to improve other areas of your team. So I think it makes you feel a lot better about the on ice product, the long-term having the options But also now you have some flexibility because flipping JT and at least addressing blue line through it Save the other assets for you to go and address another need. There's no way Quinn You should play the four nations face off, right? I Don't think you should but I mean good luck trying to tell him not to I think that's the biggest thing

Yeah I know I I have a hard time getting a read on what the players are thinking about this tournament, because I've heard some speak glowingly about the anticipation of finally getting back to best on best. And then you also see things like Patrangelo in Vegas, where it's like, he says, well, it sucks that I can't play.

And I'm like, well, then just go play. Like, you're playing right now. So there's obviously something going on where the club is telling him, sucks that I can't play. And I'm like, well, then just go play. Like, you're playing right now. So there's obviously something going on where the club is telling him, like, he can't go. And I wonder if that's the thing that's going to come up as we get closer and closer to the tournament, is the team interviewing and saying, like, hey, we know you want to go and we know it's exciting,

but it doesn't make a lot of sense for us long-term. Yeah, and maybe it's a little bit different for a guy like Petra Angelo, who's been to Olympics as one goal has done all these things into his thirties. And maybe it's easier to convince him or maybe he's been less reluctant. He's more reluctant to go. But I think for a guy like Quinn, I think there's a level of excitement of being part of those groups, that group of players and being that type of tournament. And as much as the Canucks, you know, like even talk yesterday, kind of said,

well, obviously, I mean, if he's heard, you always re-rather him not go and play. I think it would have to be his decision. I don't know if the Canucks are in a position where they're willing to strong arm Quinn into making any sort of a decision, especially considering how the year has gone and what you're trying to do here long-term and not to say that you don't do what's best for the organization, but I don't think it's as simple as being like, Hey Quinn, I don't care what you feel. You're not going to this tournament.

I think if he really wants to go, I have a hard time seeing them telling him he can't unless that injury truly is holding him back. All right, Sat, thanks for joining us this morning. Very much appreciated. Uh, again, sorry about the Cleveland Browns and Miles Garrett. It's okay.

Sorry. Yeah. I know you're used to it. I know you're used to it. I know you're used to it. So, uh, anyway, hope you had a great weekend and, uh, look, looking forward to hearing you later on in the day. Thanks buddy.

Hey pal. You got it guys. Always love it. Take care guys. Satyar Shah, Sportsnet 650 is very own here on the Halford and Breff show on Sportsnet 650. Yeah, I'm on the, it's confirmed across the internet, the bastion of truth that is the internet.

Miles Garrett, after eight seasons and the reigning defensive player of the year, once out of Cleveland. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.