Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 2/6/25

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they talk the Marcus Pettersson signing and look ahead to tonight's Canucks matchup in San Jose with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance, plus they chat with Seahawks great and Superbowl champion Richard Sherman.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. The big news from last night, the Vancouver Canucks didn't waste any time signing newly acquired defenseman Marcus Pedersen to a six year contract extension worth $33 million for a $5.5 million average annual value. Yeah, it was interesting that Patrick Alvin in

his quote in the press release said, in just a couple of games, Marcus has already shown us the type of leadership poison character that we want in a top four defenseman because we got this text in to the Dunbar Lumber text line and it goes, it's unsigned, it says two games with the Canucks and a 33 million dollar contract. What was the rush? Desperation? No, these guys know Marcus Pedersen really well Maybe some desperation. It's so well some some the They know they know very well. They've been watching them for a while now. They knew him from Pittsburgh I think you know I think we said earlier in the week that we wouldn't be surprised if an extension got announced pretty quickly and

that we wouldn't be surprised if an extension got announced pretty quickly and Wednesday evening came and there was the press release. It is a lot of terms, six years for a guy who turns 29 in May, so hopefully he takes care of himself into his early 30s, but it speaks to a few things. It speaks to the leverage that quality defensemen have when they're on the verge of becoming unrestricted. And I also think it speaks to what the Canucks are trying to build on the blue line. They've remodeled this thing real quick and there might be still changes to come. Tuesday against Colorado, Marcus Pedersen logged 23 minutes of ice time, including a couple of minutes on the PK. I see him, and I think most people see him, of minutes on the PK. I see him, and I think most people see him, as a clear upgrade on Carson Sousi, who may be on his way out now, with Hughes on the top pair and Pederson on the second pair.

The Canucks are looking pretty solid on the left side in the top four. They've also got, below that, Derek Forebord, D.P.D., Prospects Kir Kujadzev and Soray Meneo who played for Canada at the World Juniors. The right side has some promise too. For now you've got Hronik and Myers but don't forget that Tom Willander is on the way soon and there's also Victor Mancini who they got from the Rangers in the JT Miller trade. I expect him to see NHL time with the Canucks at some point this season. Now, am I guaranteeing that the Canucks are going to have this great defense for

the next seven or eight years? I am not because there's still the matter of Quinn Hughes resigning in a couple of years, but compared to a few months ago, I'm sure feeling a lot better about the guys below Hughes and Hronek and that probably includes Hronik because, you know, he was out for a while and, and I think it's taken him a few games to find his game, but he played really well in the last game and the last two have been without Quinn Hughes.

Um, the problem now, really, if you're, if you're thinking about a problem and there's always kind of an area where you want to improve the problem, now he's a problem. The problem now is a forward group because JT Miller isn't there anymore. Um, and that's where really the biggest unknowns reside, will Petey turn it around?

And if he doesn't, what then? And then there's Brock Besser, a pending UFA that the Connex are hoping will take a discount to stay here. Otherwise he might be gone. And frankly, even if PD turns it around and Besser stays, I still think the top six is missing something.

I don't know if it's size, snarl, um, you know, the ability to get to the front of the net, you know, tonight in San Jose, the top six is going to include DeBrusk, Peders, Garland, new guy Drew O'Connor, new guy Philip Heidel and Brock Besser. So I think we've all been impressed with Heidel. We haven't been talking quite as much about Drew O'Connor, but we probably will after this game.

I guess we'll see what he can do in the top six role. Just don't get your hopes too high for this guy. He's, he's played 212 games in the NHL and has 31 goals. So, um, interesting to note though, that in Elliot Freeman's just published 32 thoughts, just published on sportsnet.ca a couple of things on the Canucks. two thoughts just published on sportsnet.ca a couple of things on the Canucks and Elliot reports that the Canucks out wrestled Western rivals, Edmonton and Vegas among others for

Drew O'Connor. And they will attempt to extend him as well as they did with Marcus Pedersen. So clearly there was a lot of teams around the league that looked at Drew O'Connor and said, that guy's got more to give. Yeah. I mean, when I brought it up yesterday about

him potentially, see, I thought the fit was going to be him elevating to a top line role with either, I mean, take your pick on what winger is going to get bumped, but it would have been Pedersen in Nebraska, Pedersen and Besser. And then O'Connor would have gone in and been the puck retrieval guy, the big body guy, the

four checker guy, the guy that, you know, brings a different element to that line because in the case, and it, my. He's not going to play with them though. No, I know he's, he's moved into a top six role. So it's going to be, I think based on practice yesterday, it's going to be Pedersen between Debrecht and Garland.

So Garland gets bumped up to that line and it's going to be, um, O'Connor with Heidel and Besser. Yeah. So two of the three new guys on a line together, which is interesting. With Besser. Yeah. Because man, remember he said after the last game

because they switched around the lines after that kind of sluggish first period and Besser said, yeah, I got a few spins with Heidel on O'Connor and it was hard to keep up to those guys. They're both very fast. I, yeah, I don't mean, again, I don't have any great hopes for O'Connor and it was hard to keep up to those guys. They're both very fast. I, yeah, I don't mean, again, I don't have any great hopes for O'Connor. I think it's interesting that he was in demand,

that the Canucks were able to land him and that he's already been elevated into a top six role. But it does sort of speak to where the forward group is at right now. And really it does speak to how impactful JT Miller was on the ice with this group because with Miller in there You suddenly feel and look a lot more dynamic even just looking at the when the lines get like put out on social media Like when batch tweets them out all of a sudden you're looking at it. You're like

It's definitely not as dynamic and it's definitely not as fear imposing as it used to be and that's just in terms of definitely not as fear imposing as it used to be. And that's just in terms of offensive firepower. They're just not, I mean, and you see the results of it on the ice at times. Um, they weren't a great finishing team this year to begin with. I can't count the number of times that Rick Tuck had lamented their inability to put Pucks

in with pretty good chances on that. For me, it's just like, they don't have enough guys that make things happen. Like, and that's great analysis, but, you know, JT Miller would make things happen. Yeah. Pedersen hasn't been doing that lately. Now, Phillip Heidel, I think we've all been as impressed

with his ability to get the puck and, you know, for lack of a better way of saying it, doing stuff with the puck. Just keep doing stuff, Phil. You're doing a good job of doing stuff. Do some stuff. So that is, let's put that conversation to bed for just a sec. We can always come back to it later in the show because I think a story that's going to start to get, already is starting to get a lot of attention is whether or not Queen Hughes will or should go to the

Four Nations tournament. Which starts. It's on the front page of nhl.com. Yeah. It's a big story. Which starts in what, six days? Yep. It starts a week yesterday.

So he's not able to go down and play for his own team, the Vancouver Canucks in San Jose today. They have one game left before the break and that is Saturday at home against the Toronto Maple Leafs. Uh, if he's not able to play that one, what's going to happen here? Well, let's hear from the head coach, Rick Tauke. And he addressed this yesterday after practice,

the status of Quinn Hughes confirming, as Jason mentioned, that Hughes won't be making the trip down to San Jose tonight when the Canucks take on the Sharks. And then Rick Taukett also looked ahead to the future, including the Four Nations faceoff. Here's Rick Taukett from yesterday at practice. It could be. Depends on how close is the plan on Saturday. That's really what it comes down to. But yeah, we're going to have to have a hard, long look at this. Like every player, you know, you're concerned about safety and healthy and all that stuff.

Just to be clear, he's wanting to play these games, right? He says he can play. Lagard games now? Yeah. Well, I mean, he wants to play, but you know, he can't play. Put it this way, I can be the bad guy, I don't care. He's not gonna play. Yeah, when he tried to gut it out, but I think he's a smart kid, too. He knows, like, gutting it out, it's not gonna help our team for us. Last game of the year,

I don't even know if he'd play, probably, but right now, the kid's got a big will to play, but he knows better than that. So Tauke went on to say this is a tough one. I know Quinn is a USA guy loves his country, wants to play with his brothers, a lot of positives to it but like I said he's a smart kid too and he understands what's at stake also. I know there's a lot of people including Rick Tauke, by the it. And you know, me that are worried about Hughes playing in the four nations.

And some are suggesting that the Canucks should just put their foot down and strongly suggest he doesn't go. I get it. I get that line of thinking, but it sounds like the way they're looking at it is like, look, we had to trust Quinn. He's a smart guy.

Trust him to make the right decision. I would probably advise against anything heavy handed, especially if Hughes really, really, really wants to go. He has already been through a lot this season in Vancouver, and this team does not need any more drama, internal conflict or hard feelings. Like Tucket said, Hughes is a smart, thoughtful guy. You have to trust that he's going to make the right decision and not put his health unnecessarily in jeopardy. The end of the day, this is your captain and he's one of the best players in the world.

Talk it out with them, let them know your concerns, but I think ultimately the decision should be his to make. I think it's gonna be really interesting. I feel like I'm talking about like a teenager. He's a good teenager and we have to trust him to make the right decision. If he was a bad teenager, we might have to make the decision for him, but he's a good teenager and he knows he needs to get that homework done.

You can just see mom and dad having the conversation behind the kitchen counter like, Don, you're gonna have to let him borrow the car, that kind of thing. And I do wonder, in this instance, if the parental guidance, which I guess is coming from Tauket in this scenario, the parental guidance, which I guess is coming from Tauket in this scenario, uh, isn't going to overrule. He did say, Tauket did say, I can be the bad guy. I don't care. That's a classic parent statement. And that's for the Canucks.

Not USA. That's for the Canucks. Is it though? Yes. Is it though? I think that's what you meant. Cause I think this is all about the Canucks, friend. I think this whole conversation is about the Vancouver Canucks.

I know. Guilt could be a good way. Guilt is a good know. Guilt could be a good way. Guilt is a good way. Guilt would be a really good, if you want to go to the Four Nations and risk injury for your team, you're the captain, so there's some responsibilities that come with it and you're the best player on the team, if you want to go and play for, not the

Canucks, another team, another team. Go ahead. You could guilt them the other way though. He was just like, okay, see ya. You could, you guilt them the other way. Go say, hey, oh, you want to let your country down? Okay, Quinn, yeah. You can just leave your American brothers behind. So.

Yeah, rest, rest that hand. Okay. Yeah, okay. I was thinking about this the other day. Well, it's more than the hand, right? It's true. He's got something else going on right now. Yeah, he's clearly banged up.

The hand, well, the hand was not keeping him out of the lineup, so he's got something else. I think it's a lower body injury. Maybe a hip, maybe a knee, could be a groin. Could be an ankle. All of those are in the lower body. It's an ailment of some sort. So I was thinking about this, I wonder- He's got a bad femur.

Can, because- Oh, my femur. Because Bill Guerin's the USGM, right? And I wonder if there's like an unspoken agreement among all these guys who are, because they're serving two masters here. Like, yeah, Bill Garan is working for USA Hockey, but I think more importantly,

especially for his finances, he's working for the Minnesota Wild. I wonder if there's like an unspoken agreement between the general managers where they're like, don't add any extra pressure to these guys, right? Like you're talking about the guilt from the USA side of things. Like, I imagine that if one of Garen's players

was in a similar situation, he wouldn't appreciate it if a fellow GM was leaning on his guy to go to the international competition because he needs him for Minnesota. You know, and it's different than if it was the Olympics and the International Ice Hockey Federation and all that. I think that's a different thing

because this is very much an NHL product. It's also an All-Star game. Also, that means a lot more, I would assume. I think so. The Olympics. Oh yeah, for sure. You also got to remember that Takut's on the bench for Canada. Maybe this is just like, Coop has said,

like, Takut makes sure Quinn doesn't go. Yeah. He's playing 18D chess right now. Yeah, Takut's like, sorry sorry dude, you can't go. But here's the thing. I'm fine. No, no. OK, just going.

It would be in your best interest not to go to this tournament. Right, just going around the room as Canucks fans, and I guess whatever lad he is, none of us want to see Hughes go to the tournament in the current condition. I'd like to see him play, but not given the circumstances. If he can't play for the Canucks,

he shouldn't go to the World Nations. He can't play for the Canucks. Tauke said to the coordination. He can't play for the Canucks. Like in talking stuff, like he can't play. Like it was definitive, like he can't play. All I'm saying is let him make the decision, or at least let him make him think he's making the decision. Sure.

Like you sometimes do. I just want the relationship between the Canucks and Quinn Hughes to be the best it possibly can. So as a Canucks fan, that's your primary goal. That's my primary goal. Out of all of this. Yeah, the relationship. Don't care about the tournament, that's your primary goal. That's my primary goal. Out of all of this. Yeah, the relationship.

Don't care about the tournament, don't care about anything. Just make sure that the relationship is strong. Yeah. Okay. I can get down with that. And then if he goes and gets hurt, he definitely has to resign. Yeah. He's like, oh, Quinn, I remember when you selfishly went to the four nations

and then you got hurt and you kind of ruined the Canucks season. There should be all these- Here's an eight year contract extension. There should be all these- Here's an eight year contract extension. There should be all these participation clauses, like when your kids go to one of those jungle gyms and they got to sign a waiver, it should be one of those. Like here's what happens if you fall and hurt yourself. Kids have to sign waivers to go on jungle gyms now?

The indoor play areas. Oh, like yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you got to sign a waiver and you have to buy their socks too. They get you with the socks. A lot of funny texts coming into the Dunbar Lumber text line, Tyler texting, the Canucks need to get them on a direct flight to four nations and pay off the airline to not say where the plane is going. And whoops, it arrived in Maui.

Canucks all inclusive. Yup. Yeah. I don't know. I, you know, it's funny, like I actually want to, I want to see him play in this tournament. Of course. I want to, I want to see him play in this tournament. Of course. I want to, I want to, even though.

Just not in his current state. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know, maybe there's a way that he goes and plays. Can you join the team halfway through the tournament? I mean, they could probably make it up as the, I bet they don't have like hard and fast rules. And you still got a bit of time, right?

What, it's another week? Like he could be fine by then. It's not that, it's extra unnecessary games for a guy that could use that time to recuperate from whatever's bothering him right now. Okay, that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's not just playing, it's that time off would be super valuable

at this exact moment, because he's going through it physically. Last night in the NHL, there were three games. The Rangers beat the Bruins. They came back from a 2-1 deficit and beat the Bruins, a 3-2 at Madison Square Garden. The Chicago Blackhawks had a comeback of their own, but they ultimately fell four to three to the Edmonton

Oilers in the McDavid versus Bedard Bowl. And then the LA Kings, are they turning it around? Is it two in a row for the LA Kings? Probably too early to say. May not be too early to say that the Montreal Canadians, thanks for coming out. They lost to the Kings six to three last night in LA. I am loving the playoff race in the East.

That game last night between the Rangers and Bruins. It was huge. It was huge. The Rangers are back in the race now. They're only four points back of the wildcard spot, currently held, the second wildcard spot, currently held by Tampa Bay.

Yeah, and Boston's on the outside looking in. Boston's on the outside looking in, but there are all these teams in the race. Columbus is in the race. The Islanders are in the race because they had a big winning streak. The Rangers, as all these teams in the race, Columbus is in the race, the Islanders are in the race because they had a big winning streak. The Rangers, as mentioned, are in the race. You know, I'm not, I think the Habs are gonna fall off now.

They're starting to fall off. You know, they're three, six and one in their last 10. They had a nice run there for a bit. Some of it was, or a lot of it, I think, was goaltending and timely scoring. I still like the future for the Habs, but they're not quite ready yet. If you look at that Atlantic division,

Florida is in first with 67 points. Boston is in sixth, seven points below Tampa. It's the best race going right now in terms of any. It's awesome too, because remember a couple of years ago where the eight teams, the eight playoff teams in the East were essentially determined by Christmas. Yeah.

We're going to get a bonafide playoff chase right down to the wire here because of the amount of teams that are involved. And because you've got new blood too, which is important, Ottawa, Detroit, you know, Columbus hasn't really been a factor the last couple of years. Like all those teams being in the mix is super important. And we are like, and I know there's so much to be decided,

but the possibility of getting a Toronto, Ottawa first round series would be amazing. I would love to see a new wrinkle to the Leafs losing in the first round every year. Having them lose to Ottawa would be great. Like a whole new dynamic that we never thought about because it hasn't happened. So yeah, I'm very much looking forward to that.

Can you imagine just like an energized Ottawa senators with all their youthful enthusiasm and maybe Brady Kachuck, if he can get focused enough on the right things, just. Well, you remember. I think that would be a fun series, man. You remember how. It would be a really fun series.

You remember how big a role his brother, Matthew Kachuck played in the Battle of Alberta. He was a driving force behind that thing. Brady could easily replicate that in the Battle of Ontario. It would be perfect. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. What up, Trancer?

What do you think of all these moves the Canucks have made? Yeah, I don't love the value on the second JT Miller trade, but I like the players they got back. So I'm, look, I think it's consistent with something I've been critical of this organization for across six years and of this management group across three or four, where my concern is a lot of these trades sometimes raise their floor, right? This is a team with a pretty high floor with a pretty solid defensive group, which man, been a long time since we said that, especially once you throw, I mean, we haven't even seen it with Quinn Hughes throwing into the banks. So, I like that, but I do worry that that, you know, they dealt the highest upside asset

and for me, it was the first they got back from the Rangers. To me, that's just, I just worry a little bit that ultimately you could get stuck in the middle with this approach. Right? That's always been my fear with Vancouver, you know, going after players, sort of not prioritizing, accumulating talent and building out your sort of hall of futures and, uh, trying to do at least a few things through the draft. Although, you know, I'm, my understanding is the Canucks are very reluctant to trade their own firsts. So, um, at least there's that. I don't think they're firsts as valuable as the Rangers. Like I think they're more likely to make the playoffs this year and just as likely to make the playoffs next year, given the state of the West.

Yep. So that, to me, I just didn't love the entire maneuver, but I liked, like I liked Marcus Pedersen a lot. I think Drew O'Connor is a really good player. It sounds like there was quite a bit of competition for Drew O'Connor too. Elliot Freeman reporting that Vegas and Edmonton

among others were in the mix for him. So maybe that's the price, right? Yeah, it was a significant price. They're good players. So anyway, I think you come out of it with a Canucks team where the build's a little flipped. We've been talking for so long about Vancouver having really forwards and some top endy, but not enough depth on defense.

And suddenly, Vancouver's top target over the next 12 to 18 months is going to be a top two line center. Yeah. Right? And- How are they going to find that? That's the big question. Let's say that, let's say that Pettersen doesn't dramatically improve and let's be generous

to Philip Heidel and say that he's got that, he's a 2C, that he plays up to a 2C. Even if you don't think he can, let's just say it for the sake of argument. So they're in a situation where they've got Pedersen, he isn't improving, so they really need a 1C. Like that is not an easy position to be in. No, and when we see those guys move, it's not frankly all that unlike the situation

that for example landed the New York Rangers their new 1C last week. Right? These situations that boil over that tend to be relationship-based as opposed to hockey-based where someone you don't expect to be available or to move suddenly ends up moving. Right? I mean, sometimes you can find it through a breakout candidate. Like, uh, like I, I mean, I wouldn't call him a one C, but like Sam Bennett to

Florida, where he hadn't been the player that he has been for the Panthers when the Calgary flames dealt him, they were able to get him for two seconds. So sometimes you can gamble on, you know, honestly, that's not different than, that's not too different anyway than what you're hoping for from Phillip Heidel, right? Yeah. That's not too different from what the Calgary flames are hoping for with Morgan Frost, right? So that's one way to do it is the, is the like lower end younger guy still has some

juice and upside. Maybe he can be more for us. So that's, that's the one way. And then the other way is the Jack I go JT Miller way Where something odd happens? What are those weird opportunities comes about and honestly, this is not that theoretical Like we see a couple guys move like this You know, I'm gonna say a couple guys a year, but we see it, you know, three or four guys move like that every five years But but you need to be ready. You need to be ready. You need to have the assets

to win the bidding, right? You need to be positioned and flexible and able to get it done whenever the occasion presents itself. And you need to be willing to take on the risk to do it. You need to be willing to do what the Rangers did in acquiring Miller. You need to be willing to bet on a player with a basically unprecedented like spinal surgery in their recent past in Jack Eichel. So you need to take on some risk and swing hard for an elite player. But those tend to be the ways that really, really good centermen get acquired on the trade market. If you're the Canucks, how would you game plan the Pedersen situation, knowing a few things, knowing that he's got the no move

clause that kicks in on July 1st, knowing that some people think that what he needs is a really good off season of getting stronger and getting more burst into his game and knowing that if you bet on that, then he needs a good off season that the no move clause date might be eclipsed. So. The, my focus on upside, just like my, my, my belief in it, my, my prioritization of it would lead me to be patient with Elias Pedersen.

Now there's sort of a couple factors that play into it. my prioritization of it would lead me to be patient with Alias-Peterson. Now, there's sort of a couple factors that play into that. The first is the no move clause is obviously inconvenient and to some extent saps your ability to build a market and get 100% value, right? But if I'm dealing in any way, I'm not going to get back an asset with more upside than Pedersen regardless at this stage. So that's baked in. There's no world where I trade Pedersen and get another player who, over his, like over the, his previous 12 months stretch, we know what this last 12 month stretch has looked like.

It's been 80 games and 57 points, right? Not great. The previous 12 months stretch was 112 points over 85 games, right? Ludicrous stuff from Elias Pettersson. And so I'm not going to get that much upside back if I trade him, whether the no move clause exists or not. And so I'd look at it as, okay, no move clause kicks in, I'm still going to probably be able to move the guy. It's just going to be a little bit like more, there's a little bit more complicated, a three-dimensional deal as opposed to one that I can make unilaterally, right? And so I would look at it as a risk for sure.

But at least if I'm gambling that Pedersen can find this form, or at least if I'm taking the organizational view, they're like, okay, everything we do here is going to be about finding a way to help this guy succeed and finding a way to get his skating burst back. Right? Like that's everything for us right now in terms of forwards. We need to figure this out. You know, like at least if I'm right, I get something really, really good.

You know, it's not like I'm gambling or the organization would be gambling on a 60 point guy even if that's what he is now. You're gambling that you can get at this player who's been point per game from the ages of 19 through 25. A guy who's hit a ceiling where he's had a hundred point season or hit a 12 month or an 85 game stretch where he's got 112 points and 45 goals. I mean, the level that he has been at is so high that I think you have to be super reluctant to get rid of it.

And if it requires you taking on more risk than you're comfortable with, more risk than you actually have appetite for, well, at least what you get is probably the single hardest thing to find in this league, which is a genuinely elite scoring one center who also has good two-way driving ability. It sucks. Whatever has happened is completely black box to me. I don't know. This does not compute. No, and it doesn't look good, right? whatever has happened is completely black box to me. I don't know. And this does not compute.

No, and it doesn't look good, right? Like it doesn't look good right now. So do you have any theory, like, do you have a, cause there are some people out there and you see it on social media, just the certainty that they say like, it's so obvious he's injured. I'm like, uh, I don't know. Like it might be a factor, but I think it goes beyond that. That's my theory.

Do you have any theories or even actual intel on how a player can like his stride has never been pretty, but he's had jump. He's had a burst and right now he, you know, he looks like he looks like a flat tire. You know, like that's so, you know, so people are like, shoot the puck, shoot the puck. Well, he's not opening up any shooting lanes because he's not moving. And the coaches, you got to move your feet, you got to move your feet. But even when he

does move his feet, you know, he's not moving them very well and it doesn't look efficient. And again, his stride has never looked super efficient, but it looks even less efficient now. So do you think the, do you have any ideas? Do you think the Canucks know actually what's going on? I don't. I don't. And I don't have any intel and I don't have any theories. I think the. That's crazy, man. Like I'm not, I'm not criticizing you. I was just like, I, I, I, I'm, it's crazy that there's no diagnosis of this yet, unless the Canucks are keeping something back from us.

Yeah. I mean, and, and the, the fact is, is that it looks physical to me, right? I think when you really hone in and watch his first few steps, it doesn't look like he used to, right? Pedersen wasn't fast, fast, but he had quickness. You know, like Pete Pedersen is quick, even if he's not fast. And that's not there and that's not there.

That's not there at all. So I, you know, I struggle with the idea that it's like, it's what's between his ears. Although look, there probably is an element. I'm sure there's a combination of that. I'm sure it's a combination, but, but there does look like there's something physical to me. And maybe that's had a bad off season and never caught up.

Maybe that's, you know, the other thing is if you go look at that NHL edge data, right, which everyone's talking about because his skating speed is down so significantly, his shot speed is down so significantly, right? All of his season highs in terms of burst, in terms of shot volume, were from like the first two weeks of his season highs in terms of burst, in terms of shot volume, were from like the first two weeks of the season. So you know, it's actually like gotten worse as we've gone along through this year. I don't have an explanation.

I don't have a theory, like not at least not a complete one. I just look at that and I watch him play and I watch the lack of burst and quickness and think there's got to be at least a physical component to this. Yeah. I agree with you, but is it the tendonitis or is it the, or is it the fact that you didn't show up to shake? Lack of preparation.

But sometimes, you know, it's sometimes it's your energy levels too. Like, you know, that can contribute to that. So I don't know, all I know is that I hope to God that the Canucks have some idea because if they don't, then they're guessing at this point about whether or not he can come back. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Look, and it's an uncomfortable spot to be in. The other, it's a deeply uncomfortable spot

to be in with an $11.6 million commitment that becomes a little bit more locked in come July 1. We have seen him have a 50 game stretch in that 2022-23 season, no, 2021-22 season, right? After the first 25 games with Travis Green, first 20 games with Bruce Boudreaux before he really clicked back in the year. And then, you know, we got 140 games of peak Patterson and then this last calendar year arrived. So, uh, we have seen this, I guess. Uh, we've seen stretches where this has happened and he

did get through it last time. I don't know if that gives you confidence or, or makes you more concerned that you've got a long-term commitment to a guy who's gone in and out and we've never really understood why. Um, but yeah, he, he does. You were watching him play right now and it feels like a dimming light or like, you know, one of those lights that doesn't have enough electricity. It's just kind of like, it's just, it's just not there in his game.

And yeah, that unnerves me. But again, this team's going like the logic of this team, the logic of this team now they're sort of entering this new upside down build relative to where they've been, where you look at it and say, okay, especially with the uncertainty that they've got going on, best are like where, where's the goal is going to come from? You know, like 10 years ago, 10 years ago, you could win a cup with the best defensemen in the league,

a really good defensive structure, a deep blue line and like, you know, uh, two second line quality, forward lines and two third line quality forward lines. And you're just like the deepest team with great goal pending and you control play really well. And that could could that could win you a cup but you need a dude now like you absolutely need in this era of McDavid and honestly the Panthers are a perfect example where it's like they had Barkov and this you know excellent team and they won the President's Trophy but they needed

Matthew Kachak to make two consecutive finals you need a dude you need elite talent to win with the way the game is trending and the way save percentage has dropped and the impact that star players are making on a night to night basis. And if that's not Pedersen, the Canucks do not have even like a bid in on a dude. So I just think this is one of those risks that yes, it's significant. Yes, it's unnerving and uncomfortable to be in this spot. But if the Canucks aren't betting on the guy they already have, who are they betting on? We're speaking to Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. The Marcus Pedersen contract extension. We covered all our bases there. We good? Is there any, any, any take you've cooked up in the lab you got on this one? You got anything for us here, Drance?

No, I've, it's decent. I mean, it's, Yeah, that's it, right? It's fine. Yeah, it's good. It's good work. It's good value. He's a good player.

Tough as nails, just in a different way. And man, it's going to like, you know, that I like the idea that this team's going to have a variety, like at least three quality defensemen, right? At least three guys that I think you feel really comfortable with playing top pair minutes on any given night. That's what you need, right? Like, I think that's, I think that's what this team has needed for an awfully long time. I think that's what this team has needed for an awfully long time. And I think it's going to look so much different from so much of what we've seen, especially once we get to see it with Quinn Hughes.

Now they're still going to need some juice, but in terms of what the backend looks like and in terms of the bids that they have coming to level it up further, both because DPD looks so much, so far ahead of schedule on his development track record. And then Tom Blander at some point, probably later this year, gives them, you know, another guy with pedigree who could make a significant difference. I mean, the state of this blue line is the healthiest, it's been in a decade. And I think fans are going to enjoy watching that. I think I'm going to enjoy watching that. I think I'm going to enjoy watching that. I think this team is going to be able to plug

players into a far more, like healthy hockey environment as a result of what they've added with Pedersen and what they should still add in the months ahead. It's crazy how quickly we've all gone to like, we've all gone to like, okay, we like our centers, but the defense is a problem. And now I'm looking at the defence and you know,

you got Hughes and Hronik and Marcus Pedersen, but also some young guys on the way too. I mean, who couldn't be excited about DP, DPD and Tom Willender. And we haven't even seen Victor Mancini yet. And there's Kudryasov and Sawyer Minio. Like, I don't know if those guys will amount to anything, but they're there.

And you know, you only have to find, the thing is that you only have to find four defensemen, right? Really, if you think about it, because you can, you can hide a bottom pair. I mean, some teams have gotten away with three defensemen, that's Chicago Blackhawks want to, want to stand like up with three really good defensemen and three other guys, right?

The forward group is, the forward group is more complicated, right? Like I group is more complicated, right? Like I think even if Pedersen comes back and plays well and Besser resigns, I'm still not a hundred percent loving the top six. Yeah, no, I agree with you. I mean, even right now, like if you try to make lines and there's no one out hurt, I still think

they're a top nine forward short. Yeah. Right. Like right now, I think there tonight against San Jose, I think they're a top nine forward short. Um, you know, Josh, Joshua played really well on Tuesday, but it's kind of been in and out and understandably given all the time he missed, right? Um, so I still think ideally, if you, if you were able to find a way for him to

play with like Bluger and Hoeglender on the fourth line for a little bit and the Canucks play their fourth fourth line relatively generously, like I still think you're still top nine guy short now, like right now. So yeah, I mean, and that's, and that's already with a center mix, you know, of of Souter and Bluger in your bottom six that I don't think is scary enough Uh, and that's, and that's already with, uh, center mix, you know, of, of suitor and blueger in your bottom six that I don't think is scaring anyone come

playoff time. So, no, I mean, I think upgrading upgrade is at center more, more depth and more talent, more elite talent on the wings. I mean, there, there's an element to which what you just described is an example of Whack-a-Mole where the Canucks had, you know, the strength down the middle with those three guys. They traded it for some strength on the back end, but the problems have just cropped back up. Right?

There's an element to which I think it's fair to describe that. The Canucks have been just sort of reallocating as opposed to aggregating overall talent in their lineup. And, and, you know, that's a tough spot to be in, but I do think that you can make lesser players look better, right? If you have a plan and a structure that makes sense and a blue line that can actually hold up. You know, there's not a lot of good, like the truth is, is that there's like 25 good NHL defensemen.

There's so many teams that don't have enough of them and the Connects might have three of the 25. That's a good building block, a good starting point, but you still need to graph the elite talent onto this lineup. Drantzer, thanks for this bud. We appreciate it. Enjoy the game tonight. Should be a good one. Cheers guys. Bye. Bye buddy. Thomas Drantz from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk right here on the Halferd and Breff Show on Sportsnet 650. We are very excited to talk to our next guest. He is a five-time Pro Bowler. He is a five-time All-Pro. He is a Super Bowl champion. He is one of the greatest Seattle Seahawks of all time. He's the guest speaker at this year's RBC JCC Sports Dinner, which will be next week, February 12th, the Hyatt Regency in Vancouver.

Without any further ado, very excited to bring Richard Sherman onto the program on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Richard, how are you? Good morning. I'm doing pretty good yourself. We are well as well. Thanks for taking the time to do this. We really appreciate it. We're both very big Seahawks fans. We're both very excited to get to speak with you. Before we get into all the cool football stuff,

I do want to ask a very important question about not just this dinner, but the JCC and your involvement with them. The JCC does help communities through sport. They offer a number of sports related programs for the community, for all types of individuals, including those with like learning disabilities and mental health challenges. Why was it important for you to be involved

with this type of initiative? Well, it's always important to give back. And, you know, we've given back to a number of causes over my time as a professional and even before, but my mom also, you know, worked with mentally and physically disabled kids for 30 years growing up. So, um, obviously I was, I was introduced to that at an early age and, and really, uh, it had a positive impact on me just being able to interact with them, help treatment,

therapy, and things like that throughout my time as a kid. And so, you know, just a lot of things aligned in the right way for this to work out. What was your childhood like and how did it shape you as a person and as an athlete? Well, I mean, you know, every childhood is unique, but you know, I think mine was pretty, pretty interesting, you know, rough neighborhood and good parents and, you know, sports allows you a avenue and a space to get away from that. And obviously sports has been a bridge for me to put myself and my family in a better place.

So it's, you know, to make a long story short, that's the breath of it. How are you enjoying the TV role with Amazon? Did speaking on TV come naturally to you? Yeah, I'm enjoying it a ton, man. It's a great crew. It's a fun show to do. It's fun to talk about sports, as you guys know.

And, you know, it came pretty easily. I felt like I'm built to talk about sports as you guys know. And, you know, it came pretty easily. I felt like I'm built to talk about sports and debate the facts and stats and everything we love and hate about sports. So I've enjoyed it since the moment I got on the set. We're speaking to Richard Sherman here on the Halifax and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. Richard, of course, is the keynote speaker. This year's RBC JCC Sports Dinner,

February the 12th at the Hyatt Regency Vancouver. Now that you're in your role as a media guy and work in the Thursday Night Footballs for Amazon and everything, who do you pay more attention to? The Seattle Seahawks or the San Francisco 49ers? You got to pay attention to everybody these days. designers uh... you have a good desire writing there's no i mean you know what's going to happen these games uh... but i was brought back to the uh... polls on both things while so could

also in tampa and can city and all the rest of these teams because uh... you never know who's going to come on nowhere and be relevant uh... detroit lions for example they are no we're built a really great team great culture and uh are perennially in the playoffs and contending. I'll have the number one seed before getting upset by the commanders. What do you think about where the Seahawks are right now? What's going to be the biggest challenge to make them a Super Bowl contender again? Just big-time players. That's what makes Super Bowl

teams. I think it's a pretty good coaching staff. I think Mike has a good scheme defensively. Obviously they want to make a change offensively and got rid of Grob and got Kubiak. But so I expect them to run the football, you know, inside and outside zone. Seems to be what the Kubiak tree does. But it's going to come down to big time players, you know, players are going to have to develop into superstars on the field. And at the end of the day, that's how you get Super Bowls.

You have Super Bowl caliber players that execute I think they have those kind of players on defense but it's gonna have to manifest itself in a bigger way obviously Leonard Williams had a huge year this year they got big expectations for Byron Murphy, Boye Mafay to develop into something with a spoon and Tariq obviously and then Ernest Jones coming in you know around midseason after the bye and made a really good impact so hopefully they bring him back and then offensively you got to find an offensive line. You got to find an offensive line to keep the quarterback upright. Richard, correct me if I'm wrong here,

but you came up at least once to a Canucks hockey game in Vancouver, didn't you? Yeah, yeah I did. Okay, so very recently the Canucks had an issue on their team where two of their top forwards were not getting along and they tried and they tried and they came together, they had lots of meetings and they just didn't get along. And it eventually led to one of them being traded away.

Now, we all know that there's been lots of talk about the Seattle Seahawks when you were there and did everyone get along? Was there a clash of egos? Was there preferential treatment by the coach? So I guess my question to you is what's it like trying to get along with everyone on a professional sports team? Well, that's a complicated answer I guess, but I don't know what their issues were, you know, it could be a number of things but Usually, you know if everybody's intentions are winning and winning is the

most important thing for everybody, then usually you can find a common ground, uh, along most of these issues. You know, I think, you know, the problem lies in, you know, like you said, we had issues with preferential treatment and things like that. That kind of, uh, eats away at the accountability and credibility of the coaching staff. And then you start to question everything. Once the culture doesn't apply uniform, uniformly, uh, down the line.

And so, uh, I think you gotta, you know, you gotta keep the main thing, the main thing, and if winning is the main thing, then a lot of times that, that can calm a lot of the frustration down and at least get it to a point where people can move professionally within building. Is it okay for a coach to treat players differently? If the coach knows that one player, for example, responds well to being challenged or doubted and he's got a, you know, like I'll show you coach

attitude while the other responds well to positive reinforcement. You know, there are some athletes and maybe more and more athletes, younger athletes now that kind of shut down when they're overly criticized. So how does a coach, how is a coach supposed to balance that and not have this appearance of preferential treatment?

That's the tough space to navigate. and not have this appearance of preferential treatment. That's the tough space to navigate. You know, I mean, I believe this generation has been softer, so, and I don't mean that in the kindest way, you know what I mean? I just mean that generally, it's soft. And so, you know what I mean? If you can't be coached

and you need positive reinforcement every stretch of imagination, every way, and you haven't, you know what I mean? And the rest of the team is getting coached in a certain way. It's not gonna come off well. It's never gonna go well. You gotta either, you know, if your culture is one way and that's the way you coach, you know,

10 out of 11 guys and the 11th guy gets coached differently, you're gonna create an issue. So, you know, it's unfortunate, but as the head coach, you have to keep the standard, the standard. If you were to tell a young athlete, it's important to be coachable. And I've actually tried to do this before and failed because I have a hard time exactly describing

what being coachable is. What would you say, or what were some examples that you point to about this is how you be coachable? Or what were some examples that you point to about this is how you be coachable? Being able to accept and criticism and correction and make a difference In real time being able to not take things personally Being able to be told something such as a weakness, a flaw in your game and not take that offensively and go into a shell but to take that as motivation to work on your craft

and to improve that facet of your game or your sport or whatever the case may be, your life, your writing, your math. I think that's the most important part of being coachable, being accountable when things aren't going great and not again, taking it personally. I think everybody gets into their emotions and feelings about things when it's business. Like, hey, am I doing the job? What can I do to do my job better? And then go out there and work on the things that you can do better and then execute it at the end of the day. When did you learn that? Did you learn that as a, as a very young athlete?

Was that always the way you were or did you actually have to like come to the conclusion that I need to be like this? I had really tough coaches when I was young, so I didn't really have a ton of choices to do with the program or don't play the sport. Did you have a particular favorite coach, either college, high school, the pros,

was there one guy that either stood out, in a good way of course, like that was someone that I really look up to as being the sort of like pinnacle or epitome of what I wanted out of a coach. Yeah, I mean, not in the moment. I didn't see him that way in the moment. I've seen him a much different way in the moment. But my football coach at high school,

Keith Donerson and my track coach, Darrell Smith, and both of them ran the dog work me to death. And in the moment, I'm thinking, man, this sucks. They are treating me preferentially in the worst way. It's like they're singling me out and working me like a dog. And I don't see anybody else out here on this field. There's only like three of us and we're the three getting worked like a dog.

But then you can look in the championship games and the championship meets and all that. And those are the three that are there. You know, those are the three that are making the biggest plays and going to college and getting scholarship offers and all that. But in the moment you're a kid, you're like, man, this sucks. Like, why, why, why can't I just get to chill and hang out on the side or go home

early or do anything? But, um, you know, like I tell my son, nothing comes without hard work and, you know, every, everybody is conditioned to take the easy route. Those who don't usually make it to the top. So this is a question that we asked KJ right, when we had him on a year or two ago and he was like, oh, that's a good question. So this has KJ's approval as a question.

So I'm going to ask you, are egos a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to team sports? Because egos can drive you to be better as an individual, but they can also be problematic in a team setting. Yeah, egos, egos the enemy. But, you know, I think some people confuse confidence with ego sometimes, you know, ego is self, self, self, self, you know, everything is self improving, you know, everything is about me, me, me, me. That's ego. I don't think ego ever wins. I don't think ego on a lot of teams really works. And I think people confuse that because they use the word so loosely like ego, ego, man, they have a lot of egos on that team. No, personalities may be true and confidence. No question about it.

But egos wouldn't work because egos would always think me before week. And so when you when you have guys that think we before me, then they're not equal to school, at least in my opinion. You know, I could be wrong, but this is the way I thought sports and the reason why our team worked is because no matter what, the weed came before the meat. So there's a certain teammate of yours, former teammate of yours that comes to mind and used to be a big fan of this guy.

And then he started talking about his legacy all the time and he, you know, there was reports that he really wanted to win an MVP and it kind of lost me. I'm sure you can think of the guy that I'm probably thinking of, but was I on the right track there? Um, I, that, that, that's something that I think

will go down in history as one of the most head scratching questions of all time. Because outwardly it doesn't seem that way, but on the surface, at least from what we saw and decisions made, you know, to throw a football that should have been run, there will always be that question. I don't think he's a bad guy or a bad person in any way but you know I think I think when you make decisions or decisions are made in a situation that seems pretty clear-cut and obvious and different decisions are

made that lead to losses then you know questions will be asked for a long time. Did he change as a person and a teammate or was he always the same guy? Well, I don't know if he changed. I think he just became more outwardly what he was going to become. I don't think anybody changed him as a person. I think he's a pretty straightforward guy, you know, does things right, works hard, but you know, as circumstances change, human beings start to become more of what they want to be done and what they want to be. And I think that's what happened. You know, I think, you know, you think you're a guy and you're a big time guy and you see other big time guys getting treated a certain way and you say, hey, I deserve to be treated that same way and I deserve to be looked at in that same way. And I think that's what he wanted.

And we're of course talking about KJ Wright, right? No, but yeah. No, but I can't be wrong. Very selfish. We are speaking to Richard Sherman here on the Alfred and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. Richard, your former head coach, Pete Carroll is back coaching in the NFL with the Las Vegas Raiders. I was listening to something you had with K Adams on Up and Adams a little while ago where you talked about Pete being a culture builder and the quote was,

I think everyone has gotten into this cutesy mindset of offensive genius or defensive genius and they forgot about building the culture of a team. What makes Pete so good at building a culture of a team and how does he do it? And he keeps the pulse on it. He's consistent almost to the point it's born. You know what I mean? It's robotic consistency, it's monotonous. You know, if you're there long enough,

you'll hear the same stories over and over. You'll hear the same coaching points, you know the same routines. And you know, sometimes routines are bad and they're like, Hey, you know what I mean, change something, but routines that are good and grounded in psychology and grounded in success can work, you know what I mean? They've been building cars the same way for a long time because it works. They build buildings the same way for a long time because it works.

And I think that's the thing that has allowed him that success in so many places because he knows how to build something that works and again for our success the reason it breaks is when you're building something and then you're like oh my god we got a new part uh we're not gonna we're not gonna build this part the same as we've been building every other part we're gonna build this one different and then when you do that the machine breaks and then you have an issue. Richard, this was great, man. We're right up against it for time, but we wanted to thank you for taking the time to do this today. We really appreciate it. Like we said, we're huge Seahawks fans,

huge fans of yours, some Allegiant of Boomsday. And it's very cool that you're going to be coming up here on February the 12th as the guest speaker of the RBC JCC Sports Dinner. Enjoy your trip to Vancouver. And once again, thanks for doing this today. We really appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me. It was a pleasure. Thanks, Richard.

Richard Sherman here on the Halford and Brough show on Sports Night 650. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.