Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 3/12/26

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they discuss the latest news around a Canucks practice facility (3:00), plus the boys look ahead to tonight's 'Nucks home matchup versus the Nashville Predators with Canucks Talk host and The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. We're a baseball show now, specifically a world baseball classic show now. Shout out to Canada Baseball. Canada has made it to the quarterfinals of the WBC for the first time in its 20-year history, beating Cuba soundly, I might add, 7-2 on Wednesday to set up a quarter-final matchup against Team USA, who finished second in their group. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, listen. Yeah. Just the opportunity to beat the Americans. Let's face it, it'll be cool. You're always the guy that says you want the big matchups.

Nobody still expects Canada to actually win this thing. So why not see if we can upset the Americans? Italy beat them. Yeah, it's true. Italy beat everybody. Italy is kind of a wagon. How do you say wagon in Italian? Yeah.

Italy was unbelievable in this. But I was really surprised how common. comfortable Canada's win over Cuba was. You know, when they beat Puerto Rico, it was like, okay, well, I don't know if Puerto Rico was throwing their A game because they actually had punched their ticket for real. Yeah. Like, for real. And they knew it.

And they knew it. And it was correct, unlike the Americans who thought they'd punched their ticket. But they actually hadn't, although they did get through yesterday. But that game against Cuba, I mean, Cuba is a country that has always advanced at the World Baseball Classic. and they were probably like, oh, we're playing Canada. They never advance of the World Baseball Classic, so we're going to win this.

And Canada just took care of business. It was a comfortable win. Cuba was not good. Finished with three errors, went one for seven with runners in scoring position. The Nailer Boys, Bo and Josh, each drove and runs. Owen Casey, who I like a lot, by the way. Another two RBIs. He's been swinging the bat really well.

And shout out to the Big Maple. James Paxton struck out six over two and two-thirds scoreless innings for Canada, who finished. the group 3-1. We had some audio. It was a great BC connection. I had audio of Maple Ridge's Tyler O'Neill singing the praises of Ladner's James Paxton, but unfortunately we can't play the audio.

But O'Neill was fired up. Paxton looked great in the work that he was able to do. I keep forgetting that they've got such stringent pitch count rules in this tournament. So you can only go a max 65 in the group stage. Right. And then I think that jumps to 85 and then eventually 95 in the finals.

So is that a max per game or okay it's not like you know not little league rules right yeah yeah it's not like per week they're right they're like big maple you cannot pitch for another week now no it's just it's through the and they're through the round robin now into the quarters i'm totally putting you on the spot here i love this but um you know you've been following this tournament closer than i have what is the potential pitching matchup tomorrow when the united states plays canada in houston that's a good question i don't know okay yeah we

were trying to figure it out before the show because it's such a short turnaround now. They finished the group stage yesterday. They get a day off today. And then it begins right away on Friday. And the U.S. and Canada in the prime time game. So it's 8 o'clock Eastern, 5 o'clock Pacific in Houston, which has been the site of a lot of the USA games already, including the wild game that they had against the Italians, which almost cost them getting through to the quarterfinal stage. And that big game against Mexico, where they won 5'3, they thought they had punched their ticket and then lo and behold, they hadn't. So the quarterfinal matchups right now. I'm laughing because I just saw the odds US minus 800 in this game. Yeah. It's a super tall order. Also because of the

dynamic that's at play now, the Americans were a little embarrassed with what happened in the group stage. Yeah. They're going to be locked in now. They're going to be angry and they're kind of going to be looking for blood because quite frankly, what happening is Italy was embarrassing. I know Italy's played really well and Italy finished atop the group. And I'm going to be honest, for his greatest stories Canada has been in this, the story of the tournament right now is what Italy has done. They've been remarkable. They've put up eight runs of offense in every single game that they've played so far.

Anyway, before we move on to the Canucks stuff, it's the quarter, can you hear me right now? You can't hear me, can you? No, I was talking to Lattie. We were talking about how great these quarterfinal matchups are because all four of them are fantastic. You got Korea and the Dominican Republic, and that's going to be in Miami. So you know there's going to be a decidedly pro-demachians. Dominican Republic crowd there. I can hear you now.

USA Canada on Friday at 5 o'clock our time. And then Saturday, you get Puerto Rico and Italy going in Houston. And then Venezuela and Shoha Tani and the Japanese team, that's a prime time game on Saturday as well in Miami. So the World Baseball Classic. So this whole thing, by the way, is facing, is kind of set up for Japan and the United States to meet in the final. As you would do.

March 17th in Miami. Yeah. But it's been a lot of fun so far. Man, honestly, I've had a blast watching it. Well, even the Venezuela-D Dominican game yesterday had so much electricity to it. Because the winner of that got to avoid Japan. So even though they were both through the next round, it still had something to it. And it was a really fun game to watch.

And once again, shout out to Canada. I had a couple people on Twitter reach out to me yesterday, and you're like, boy, you sound a lot more optimistic about Canada than you did during the Adnan Verk interview earlier this week, where I think both of us kind of said this would be very quintessentially Canadian if they beat Puerto Rico and then lost to Cuba and the winner takes all game. But they did the business. So good on Ernie Witt, good on, and specifically the BC contingent on the team

with O'Neill and Paxson and Paxson playing a huge role in that game yesterday. Shout out to Canada. Best of luck. Minus 800, you say? The Americans are in that game. We'll see. You never know. You never know.

That's baseball. Means Canada's got a chance. That's baseball. The Vancouver Canucks are reportedly close to a deal for a new practice facility. Now, Rick Dollywell mentioned the Britannia possibility on our show a couple of weeks ago. It sounds like it's close to reality, although nothing is official yet. Erfond Gaffar reported it for Canucks Army.

Then Patrick Johnston had a report for the province. Everyone reporting the same thing. It should be noted that the Canucks have been close to practice facility deals before, only for something to trip things up at the very last minute. The city so far has not been willing to share any details. The Britannia Community Center and its renovation and its revitalization has been a topic in this city for a number of years. It will surely be years before the Canucks can actually move into this new facility in East Van. But hopefully construction gets started sooner rather than later.

So honestly that we can put this topic to bed It'll be cool to see it Right? Like I want to see I want to see what they build And hopefully it'll help the team a little bit Not to mention We'll get at least one new rink for minor hockey in this city Which is badly badly needed at this point Having Britannia out of the rotation

And then there have been renovations at At the Agridome This is all you know Vancouver minor hockey that has been affected by this. And then, you know, there's the goldenized practice at the Agaradome, too. So that's taken away a little bit of ice time at times. It's been a mess in this city.

And, you know, I hope the Canucks will get a little goodwill from this. They can contribute to a community asset, hopefully, right? Like, hopefully this all gets done. Well, it's... Any thoughts on the practice facility, or do you want to just be? move on. No, okay. The practice facility story is, you know, at the same time, important and also hilarious. Well, it's a shrug of the shoulders because it really only brings them up to par with 31 of the other 32 teams in the National Hockey League who already have this facility built and

functional and for daily use for its teams. So this story is manna from heaven, man. This is going to be our talking point for the next six months. But it can't be. No, it won't be. But it can't be. Not on the show. Yes, it will. But it can't be because you can't

really laud anyone for getting on par with the rest of the national hockey. Congrats on doing the bare minimum. Well, it's not that. It's like, again, everything A-DUC says is wrong.

Everything you say is wrong right now. I think we all acknowledge the challenges in building it. Yeah, they're way behind in terms of having this facility. Way behind. Right?

But this should have been, yeah, it should have been done years ago. It should have been done years ago and it wasn't. So now that it's getting done, you can't really give them a huge round of applause for getting it across the line. But you also can't spend a lot of time.

What are you going to talk about, like, zoning permits or how they're going to deal with whatever the previous leak that they had at Britannia? Like, you know, it's got to get done. And then when it gets done, you kind of have to move on to the next piece of business to make them a functional NHL franchise in the sense that they're the only one without a practice facility and they're the worst team in the NHL in the standings. So everything needs to improve. Maybe it'll make it easier for players to get signed.

like UFA is, more inclined to come here? Maybe. Okay, maybe. It's just, yeah, but then the other players will be like, you know who else has a practice facility? Everyone else. I will tell you this. There are no free agents that are making the crux of their decision whether or not someone has a practice facility. Because 31 and the 32 teams have them.

So it's kind of a thing you have to have. They might make a decision if you don't have one or if it's a hassle to get to. And I remember, you know, all these suggestions that they could go out into the suburbs for this. And down in the States, a lot of the practice facilities are in the suburbs. And you know why that is? Because the players live in the suburbs, but they don't here. And I know Jim Rutherford and the Vancouver Canucks had said,

listen, if we put this in, let's say South Burnaby at the, the, what's it called, is the Mary Brown? Is it or is that the chicken place? Rosemary Brown. Barry Browns is a very thriving chain of fried chicken stores. No, no, which one is it then? Rosemary Brown. Rosemary Brown.

Yeah, Mary Brown is the chicken. Okay, that's the Newfy chicken place. Rosemary Brown is the newish community center in Burnaby. And I was out there a couple weeks ago. It's beautiful. And I was also like, they can't put the practice facility here. Because the players, you know, they, it's too long a drive. And the traffic in the city is only getting worse.

And, you know, I know Jim Rutherford and the Canucks will, we're like, well, wherever we put the practice facility, well, the players will just move there. I'm like, sure they will. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. We got a programming update. Adam Crafton, who we thought we were going to have on the program at 630 had to bail last minute. So we're going to have an entire first hour uninterrupted Halbro here on Sportsnet 650. So if you want to start weighing in now on anything, practice facility-wise, Canucks related, we're going to get into.

A lot of different, pretty interesting comments from yesterday's practice and yesterday's media roundup regarding the Vancouver Canucks and culture in the room and everything else. If you want to weigh in, the Dunbar-Lumber Text Line is 650, 650. We can jump into the Dunbar Lumber Text Line in the back half of this hour now that Adam Crafton from The Athletic is no longer going to be able to join us. What's going on today? Everything is breaking. Is it Friday the 13th? Like, geez, guest canceling.

Oh, man. Computers don't work. Did you know that tomorrow was Friday the 13th? Is it actually? Yeah. Well, today is Thursday the 12th, so logic would suggest. Yeah, okay. I do want to play some audio.

We'll have to wait and see, though. Like if we wait up, wake up tomorrow, might be the 14th. Yeah, you never know. You got to just see what happens. I actually really want to talk to Adam about some of the World Cup stuff. I want to know what's going to happen with Iran at the World Cup. Yeah, so their sporting minister said yesterday that they would not be participating in the World Cup. Now, he isn't the final say.

Obviously, he's not the head of the Football Association. and obviously I think FIFA will try and intervene. But that was the messaging yesterday. And I know that there are contingency plans in place. I think it would be to have the next top qualifier from the region, which I think would be Iraq, to go instead. Right. But there's also the qualifiers that still need to be played.

So there was some thinking that maybe they could just kick the can further down the road until May when the qualifiers were done and then sort of reassess. But still very much up in the air as to who's going to take that spot in the World Cup. Anyway, for the Vancouver, Knoch's. There was some interesting audio yesterday from head coach Adam Foot. Now in a media scrum on a practice day ahead of today's game against the national predators, Fult was being asked a lot of questions about what certain veteran players on the team were providing in terms of leadership. It was a fairly innocuous back and forth with reporters and I think a lot of guys who

were running out of things to talk about with this team. We're trying to look at the big picture. So in a rebuild, now that the trade deadline has passed, you still have some veteran players around. How are these veteran players going to mold the younger group and the younger generation with regards to what it takes to be a pro and how the room operates? Adam Foote was asked about Philip Heronik, and he took his answer in a very interesting way.

The question was pretty basic. What does Heronic mean as a leader to this group? Listen closely to what Adam Foote had to say about Heronic, and then the remainder, of his teammates and that room in the Vancouver Canucks or the Vancouver Connects dressing room. Here's Adam Foote from yesterday. Well, accountability. I mean, everyone leads different

or, you know, some do it on the ice and some just have a great practice house and be true pros that way. And he'll, in his own way, when he feels neat, he'll hold guys accountable. And I think he's doing it the right way. We trust him with that. And for me, it's nice to see

a room starting to take care of things themselves, which I think for years was missing here. And, you know, it feels a big part of that, so it's best. It's nice to see a room starting to take care of things themselves, which I think for years was missing here and fills a big part of that. That was the quote from head coach Adam Foote. And I just want to point out here that whether it's intentional or not, whether he's doing it on the sly or not,

there have been several times this season where Adam Foote is sort of off the Cuff mentioned that for years, this team has had a culture problem, a leadership problem, and a room problem. And he mentioned it before in the context of during games, when the team would allow a goal or things would not go their way. It's the veterans who would get defeated first. Yes. And he doesn't do it in a really sort of pointed way.

Like I can't imagine that any of this was planned. He's like, you there, reporter. ask me about Hieronics so I can take off on a spiel about how the room hasn't been great for years. Yeah, and of course remember that Adam Foote, while he wasn't the head coach the last couple of seasons, he was on Rick Tocket staff. So he knows he knows the room. He's not new to the organization. He knows everything that's gone on. So for a coach that for the majority of his time in Vancouver has been not all that critical of the team.

He's been, you know, I'd say overwhelmingly positive, given how bad the year has been. I do find it interesting that he continues to point this out. When someone who generally skews positive or optimistic says these sorts of things, I think they carry more weight. And I think what Adam Foote has really noticed, since the moment he got hired as the head coach, is that something was off with this group. You know, there was so much talk made right around the time of his hire,

how Foote was going to come in, and there was going to be a new vibe. There was going to be a new energy. There was going to be a new approach with the leadership group now that the PD and Miller's situation had been rectified. Remember, there was the golf match that Foote had set up in the off season with all the leaders on the team. Demko, Hughes, and Pedersen. And Foote talked a lot about... Do we consider any of them leaders now? No.

And you got to... I mean, Demco, it's hard when you're always recovering from an injury and you're not around as much. used is gone. And I think the ship has just kind of sailed on Pedersen being a leader. I just don't think anyone considers them that, including any of the coaches or teammates, whenever Foote's asked about who his leadership,

whose leaders are, you know, even in an offhand way, Pedersen certainly doesn't come up. Well, so, for example, the P.D. Miller Rift, when Adam Foote says that it's nice that the room is starting to take care of things themselves, you can kind of point directly

to that moment. And, at the very least infer that the guys around, Pedy and Miller weren't able to solve that situation. It was very clear that they didn't have the kind of room where a coach could say, I'm leaving, I'm locking the door, and I'm not unlocking it until this gets sorted out.

And it allows it. Comes back in, why is Peterson in the locker? Who's dead? And we joke, but. Who's dead? Yeah,

we joke, but there are teams where that has been done before. There was a very famous anecdote about the Los Angeles Kings under Darryl Sutter where they did the inverse. They locked Darrell out of the room. Put a garbage can up against the door

and they're like, get out of here, you're making it worse, we'll figure this out ourselves. And that's what you get when you've got a team with, one, a lot of guys that have won and know what it takes to win. And then two, veteran presence is that, and here's the key. They know what they can say, and it's usually most things,

and they're comfortable saying things knowing that there's not going to be like hurt feelings or blowback or residual effects. Like everyone acts like a grown up. And if you need to have the hard conversations and say the hard things, you can say it because the room is tight enough and the guys are tight enough that nothing said to one another is going to bring everybody down. And it's not going to fracture the room. And I, you know, I really wonder if the cuts have gone even close to deep enough

with this team as they enter the rebuild. Because I said at the deadline, after they traded Connor Garland, and there were so many people online arguing about, did they get enough? Was the return bountiful enough for Conner Garland? My response was, that should not be your focus right now. Asset value has actually taken a backseat for me in my thinking. Slightly.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to see them do the free card giveaway or whatever. Like, you need to get assets. I'd be okay with a certain player if they don't have to retain doing a free car giveaway. And I think that that might go for me. in age. Maybe more than one. Yeah.

Because if you're going to get rid of organizational rot, and it's fair to throw that term around, if the head coach is continuously pointing out the flaws of the chemistry and camaraderie in the room, then you have to go deep. It has to cut deep. If you use the renovation analogy, like you're ripping it back to the studs,

and if you're finding rot, you've got to go even deeper. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Let's admit it here. We're all essentially, like, what was the song called? Like, we're waiting for Trevor Linden. We're waiting for a Pat Quinn type to rescue this team. Yep.

Maybe it can be Gavin McKenna. Possibly. Well, they have a bunch of young guys that will be their leadership core, and they look like they'll be good leaders, but they're several years off from being that, right? Adog, do any of them? Like are any of them? William, Vellander, Coots, maybe,

and then if they are lucky enough to get a guy like McKenna. So there's like three or four guys that you could see being their leadership core, you know, in a few years, four years, five years from now, but you don't have anyone right now. The only problem with that is I don't know what all those guys are going to end up being as NHL players. No. But I'm just saying like if you were to try and target guys on the team now that you're like, yeah, I could see that.

Like Coots might be a really good player, but he also might top out as being like a 3C in the NHL. But I'm just talking about as your leadership core. Like the core group of players, good or not, just the guys that everyone comes to, in the room that sets the standard. Sure, but in the modern NHL, like, your leaders have to be elite players now. I'm convinced to that.

Like, there's very few teams where the leadership group is comprised of, like, role guys. You know what I mean? Like, what brought's talking about? You need a guy. A special. You need a hero. You need a hero. Seriously.

We do. We do in this again. We do. Say it. You need, you do. This team is waiting on a hero. Yeah, I know. They are.

I mean, it sounds so funny when you're not singing. it. But yeah, no, it's to that point. Yeah. Like, Zeeb Bouillon could end up being a really good quality NHL defenseman. He could end up being like just an offensive defenseman. Like we just don't know.

You don't know with any of these guys. And I know some people in the inbox are saying, well, Coots seems like he fits the profile. I'm like, he sure does. But here's the thing. It just might not work out. There have been much higher end picks than Braden Coots,

who everyone thought was going to hit in the NHL that just don't. And it's not necessarily the player's fault. They're working their ass off. They're trying to be it. It's just some guys make it and some guys don't. It also goes back to the original thing. The ethos of this, which is get a million prospects and talented guys in the door.

And don't count on one or two to make your team and don't rush it and don't force it. And see who takes the leadership role in it and embraces it. Like these things cannot be anointed. And I feel like one of the things that the Canucks did with a guy like Pedersen is they almost like forced them into a leadership role just because he was a good player. Yep. I think some validity to that. And it's like he's not that guy. You can't force it.

There are people that want to lead. There are people that go into the room and even if they're young, they want to speak up. They have that confidence in themselves. Some of them are control freaks. And they just want to lead. And those are the guys, not necessarily the control freaks, but those are the guys that should be your leaders, the ones who want it, the ones who want to stand up

and talk to their teammates, the ones who, you know, want to set an example for everyone else. That's what you need. From Kodak's Talk and The Athletic Vancouver, it's Thomas Trance here on. on the Halford & Rough Show on Sportsnet 650. Drancer, you might not expect this avenue of questioning, but I know you're a big fan of Nick Suzuki, correct?

Yeah, I like him a lot. Okay. How big of an advantage did Kent Hughes, the general manager in Montreal, have when he took over that job and he already had Nick Suzuki, and then perhaps you could... And Colchalky.

Yes, and juxtaposed the situation the Canucks have. in their rebuild. Yeah, massive. I mean, you know, the, yeah, having a guy who's become a first-line center, and what? So he was 21 the year they went to the cup, right? Because he was drafted in 2018. He was around there, yeah.

The first Vegas here. So he's 21 the year they went to the cup, and he's already playing in the league. And Cole Cawfield was 19 because he would have been drafted. 2019 and and both of them played and like played well for that team on their run to the cup in 2021. So that was a huge edge in that they had two potential first round guys, one of the one of whom they traded for, but both of them selected in the first round, both were great draft picks, right? But one by Vegas and one by Montreal. Yeah, so they had two potential first round guys who were tracking to be that.

And they had them already in place when they launched a rebuild during a flat cap era that allowed them to accumulate assets using devices that won't be available to the Canucks. And just overall, I mean, Suzuki and Coffield are one of the reasons

why the Montreal Path is not replicable for the Vancouver Canucks. But there's more, it's more than that, right? It's one thing to have two, you know, U-23 guys, when you launch your rebuild who are tracking like that, which the connects absolutely do not have. And that's an advantage for sure,

but also the ability to do the Sean Monaghan trade, the ability to actually, you know, bring in interesting talent and sort of speculate in interesting ways on talent that was undervalued because of contractual reasons in a way that players won't be now. Mike Matheson, Alexandra Carrier, right? A couple guys who played really well for them last night.

That, you know, even guys like Montembo claimed off waivers. So, you know, there was a variety of different things that Montreal was able to avail themselves of that the Canucks won't be. They got paid for taking on dead Dodonov and Monaghan and then paid and then got paid when they moved them. That's not going to happen for Vancouver. So, yeah, I mean, it is. is a different landscape and it is a different reality as they sort of begin their rebuild. And I do think that matters. You know, the other quick rebuild that I'd point to as a model, even though it didn't get

to the mountaintop or even frequently out of the first round would be the Toronto Maple Leafs, when they like very quickly were able to restock under Shanahan, right, with the Nealander draft, the Marner draft, and then the Matthews draft in quick succession. And then immediately, immediately after that, they've been a playoff team every year since. until now. But that's a decade plus. I mean, that's 11 years of playoff births. And while they kept getting frustrated in the first round, usually in game seven, they were a contender level team for four or five of those years, right? I mean, that year that they got beat by the Bruins, and then the Bruins went on to lose in seven games to the Miracle St. Louis Blues, 2019.

Like, that was the last year of Matthews and Marner's ELCs. It was the first year of Tavares. and if you go watch that series against the Bruins, they were the better team in five of seven games. And Freddie Anderson kind of choked in game seven, to the delight of Canadian hockey fans everywhere outside Ontario. And so it goes, right? But my point is that I would still consider, like if the Canucks can emerge as a team

that makes the playoffs for 11 years in a row and has like a five-year window where I'd say, hey, they're a legit contender level team if the bounces go there in the playoffs, I would consider that to be a tremendous success, right? Like from the vantage point that we're at now, I would consider that to be a tremendous success. So, you know, in the case of that rebuild,

they already had Cadre, who was like 24, 25, right? And Morgan Riley, who had been drafted in, what, in Pittsburgh, 2012. So he was 23, 24, right? they had those two pieces in place, and that was a huge deal. That's a top-pair defenseman. That's a top-line caliber center who often played second or third-line center for them. Yeah, the Canucks don't have that.

And that is probably going to extend this rebuild in addition to some of the dynamics that we're seeing play out as a result of the cap growth era. I think that has to be acknowledged, right, that this team does not have cornerstone pieces. They don't have, like, I remember. looking at it in mid-November or whatever. And, you know, they didn't have a mainstay guy on the roster playing top nine minutes or top four minutes on defense under the age of 25. They do now, but they're the worst team in the league by a mile. So it doesn't mean as much, right?

Like, Zibuyam, I've liked some of his games. Would he be playing more than a sheltered third pair role on a playoff team right now? Like almost certainly not, right? Yeah. Would Tom Blander be in a playoff team's lineup? Opening night of the playoffs? No, right? And so that has to be factored in.

Like, they're playing big roles for the Canucks, but would they be playing big roles in a more normal situation? You know, even Liam Ogren, right? Like, if you put Liam Ogren on the Buffalo Sabres, where is he playing in the lineup? Fourth line, maybe. Like, maybe, right? You know, would he be playing?

over Beck Malinstein, given Malinstein's similar attributes and sort of defensive utility and penalty killing? Like, probably not. Would he be playing over Zach Benson? No, right? So it's just like, okay, you know, there's a big gap that the Canucks are going to have to fill as sort of like a first wave of guys. And then beyond that, too, you know, I just think we have to acknowledge. Like, this team doesn't

have the cornerstone pieces that are likely to be the faces of the next great Canucks team. They hopefully have some guys that can be supporting pieces of that effort. And so everything should be focused around trying to find, you know, the two or three heart trophy level young guys that you probably are going to need to contend. And you've kind of got a five-year window to land two and a half of those guys and then a longer eight-year window to find like five and a half additional top line players. And for me, everything should be subservient to that.

I know I'm rambling here, man, but let me, let me, I was thinking about this as an example of like a rebuilding success story that I just feel like would never happen in Vancouver based off of how this organization is operated, how this team has talked about over the years. But we're only a year removed from there being like 12 months. 12 months ago, there was this really sick forward line that the San Jose Sharks had that was like driving them to be far more credible as a an NHL team than they had been in years past. And that line didn't actually feature Macklin Celebrini. It was Fabian Zetterland with Mikhail Granland and William Eklund. And Zetterland and Eklund were like best friends.

There was like lots of, you know, puff piece news stories about it. And that line was like outscoring people. And all of a sudden things started to look like, oh, hey, that's an interesting thing. San Jose killed them immediately. Like the moment Zetterland peaked in value, They were like two prospects in a second from Ottawa, great.

And Granlin for a first, and they had no compunction about being like, yeah, these guys are good players who are not our guys that matter for. And Granlin's 33 or whatever, you know? Yeah. And Zetterland is like fine, but he's like a good player. He's not, you know, he was part of the Tim O'Mire return. He's not a signature part of our team. He's probably a middle six winger. And they immediately went about monetizing him.

And that's the sort of thing. thing you have to have the guts to do. You can't get attached to the players in my mind anyway that are not those capital D dudes that you need. The two and a half heart trophy level guys and the five and a half top of the lineup guys. And the moment any guy that matches that description begins to have value, begins to have real exchange value. I think you need to pounce on moving them. And that's the sort of ruthlessness that this is going to take. In the meantime, lots of talk about culture. And as the guy that actually asked the general manager about culture,

now I'm like, are we getting out of control with all this culture talk? Like I do think it's important. I think it's very, very important. But what do you think about all this chatter? And even some of the things that the players have been saying because, you know, Patrick Johnson wrote a good article for the province. He and McIntyre had one for Sportsnet focusing on Brock Besser. and his... Are you criticizing me for not writing about culture enough?

No, I'm not criticizing you, but I'm asking... All your colleagues are writing about culture. What do you think? Listen, if you write a good piece, I will talk about it. Are you feeling needy right now? Do you need to... Your colleagues are far better in the room than you are. Thomas, you are appreciated. You're a valued member of this Looney Tunes media contingent that follows this Looney Tunes team.

just your thoughts on this I mean a lot of people have questions you know like is Philip Peronick so valuable as a leader that the Canucks shouldn't shop them because that's how the Canucks feel

apparently you know could Leas Pedersen be an impediment to the desires to improve the culture just things like that because these are the things that a lot of people are going to be talking about while the team rebuild Yeah, look, I mean, I fundamentally believe that any NHL locker room culture is going to filter down from their best players.

And I don't think the Canucks have the best players that are going to matter to the next generation of like the next competitive Canucks team, the next contending level Canucks team. Like the best players on that team aren't here. And when those players are here, the culture will trickle down from them. you know, and I do think you want to create an environment where standards are high in the meantime so that, you know, training standards and community engagement standards and what it means to be Vancouver Canuck Off the Ice and all of that stuff. Like I think that stuff matters and you can get that in place, organizationally speaking. I don't think this organization's had it in place.

So, you know, I think modeling sort of how you want players. to behave in the community and how you want players to behave in the media and how you sort of go about maximizing who you are as a player. I mean, that's stuff that you can begin to work on now. But like the fundamental feel of a team culture is going to ultimately be about how Vancouver's best players represent themselves, carry themselves, what they want a team to look like and how they function individually. You know, and that's not in place. It can't be because the players aren't here. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the fundamental truths of all of this, right? Is that like, you know, the, Kevin BX has talked about it when he did the sort of Siddine twin

roast, you know, the idea of this Sedeen culture, the idea of them being sort of the drivers of this. And, you know, I think he's right, right? Like the Canucks had a pair of hyper-competitive brothers who never had a bad day. And for 10 years were, you know, one of the best teams in the league. And, you know, I'm not saying that like, Allain Vino or Mike Gillis or whomever didn't have a hand in setting standards and helping them get to the absolute pinnacle

of who they became as players. It all starts with the players, though. It all starts with the players. Coaches can't hold players accountable in the contemporary NHL. The players make 10 times what they do. You know what I mean? Like, the coaches are way more likely to be gone

than a player with an NMC. There's only so many levers you can pull. a general manager can't really hold the players accountable, not day to day. They're not around. They're not the metronome. Their middle management focused more upward and in terms of value management than they are, you know, managing the day-to-day feel of a locker room. Yeah, they really are removed from the locker room. I think people don't really understand how removed oftentimes the management is from the room and the day-to-days of what's going on in that.

room. For sure. And they should be. Like, that's how it should be. So anyway, my point is, is we can focus on what culture you have and what, like, I think it's more, for me, what's interesting is like, how do you build a culture during a rebuild? Like, what do you want in your, in non-competitive seasons, right? Like, in seasons where you're not going to win the cup, what do you want your team to look and feel like, right? And I, I mean, I think there's a few things that do matter there that this team can work on, right? I think having some guys with real weight, right? I think that matters. And I mean like historic weight in the NHL. Guys who've been there, done that. Ideally, guys who've got cups, guys who've been star players, guys who've had a lot

of experience. I think having a couple guys like that around matters. I think having guys that hate losing and are willing to show your fans that they hate losing, especially on home ice, you know, I think that matters. I think having some toughness, I think having some toughness really matters during these rebuilding seasons because you don't want things to get silly when you're getting thumped on home ice.

You want some guys who are going to do like those, remember those Antoine Roussel, like late game temper tantrums, right? Like you want a guy who's able to throw some of those when you're getting beat 4-1 on home ice, both because then the other team stars will think like, yeah, man, do we really want to put up two more goals? Do we really want this guy running around at us late in the game?

Or do we just want to kind of go quietly into the night? Like, let's not take this chance. Let's not try to set up this three on two. Let's just, you know, get out of here. So you don't get as embarrassed. And then when the guy does it, he takes some attention off the fact that you lost. And usually those guys are pretty good quotes, right? And that becomes the story.

And they soak up some attention. And there's insulation that players like that provide. And that's sort of your Malensteens, your A.J. Greers, your Michael McCarrant to your guys. Curtis Douglas is a nice start. But ultimately, I think you want a guy who can play a little higher up the lineup. Maybe sort of be like what Derek Dorset was for Bo Horvad in that first rookie year, where it's like they're actually really defensively reliable and can play and offer some protection and insulation and also do some of that silly stuff that you're

probably going to want to have on your roster so you can put on something of a show when the show is not going to be winning. To me, that's the stuff that sort of matters more. the next culture of this team is going to be set by players that are not Vancouver Canucks currently. Yeah. And as for the, and as for the Philiparonic notion, like, I mean, wasn't he around when everything went sideways in that locker room? Okay. So, like, I mean, what are we talking about?

Right? Like, I'm sorry, I'm not, I'm not buying that anyone around is this indispensable leader for this team. If they were an indispensable leader, couldn't they have held it together? The more I think about it, the more I think it's like actually ludicrous that they're considering this. It's completely ludicrous. It doesn't make any serious. It's unsurious. I mean, and I like, you know, Philip Hironix seems to be trying more in the media.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. But part of what, part of what like the next captain of the Vancouver connects, I don't think, is here. And I don't think they'll probably be here for a couple of years. I think you want to sort of see what rises up. You want to see which prospects hit that level as a player. because I don't think you want a captain who's not one of your best players. You know, maybe they are on the team.

Like, maybe it is Tom Blander because he, you know, takes huge steps in his development from as a result about working everybody and becomes a different caliber of guy and on and on. Maybe it's breaking two. It's like, I don't know. But most likely, I don't think you've drafted the next captain of this team. And there might be a guy who comes in and is so undeniably the captain of your team that it's just like, what are we doing here? Like that's what's happened with Macklin Celebrini and San Jose, right? It's just a matter of time before there's a sea on his sweater and no one would even like think about anything else.

It's like, of course, this guy's clearly our captain. What are we talking about? Like, you know, I think you've got to have a captain during a rebuild. If you're getting, well, first of all, I don't think you need a captain during the rebuild, but I especially don't think you need one who's going to be like reluctant or uncomfortable selling the story of this. team the way we know Hironic will be, right? Like, Horonix had no interest in helping this team

interface with the public throughout his tenure. He's just had no interest in it. And I appreciate that he's doing more and stepping up and trying. And, you know, he's actually in the locker room now after losses sometimes. And, you know, credit to him. I think that's important.

I don't think that requires you to recognize it with the C on his chest. You know, and I also would say anything that makes you more attached to players that need to be probably moved on because they don't really fit the timeline of what you're probably going to be doing across the next five to seven years. Anything that makes that harder or less likely, especially for an organization that just fundamentally reveals to us time after time that they don't get the project.

Concerns me too. Like, again, to go back to the Suzuki thing, and we're relitigating this because we already talked about it early on the show and I know we've talked about it, but like, Suzuki coming by way of the Patcheretti trade. I remember distinctly like Patrick Reddy was coming off some injuries and he was a 35, 39, 37 goal score, but in the year

he got traded, he was hurt and he was down to 17 goals and they were still able to net a sizable return in the, you know, because they found someone that wanted that player and wanted that player right now. And I feel like if that dynamic in any way, shape, or form

exists right now with Heronik where you could return a bounty, you'd be foolish not to do it because the Canucks cupboard is so bare. We've talked at length today on the show about how you know you're starting from scratch in the truest sense of scratch. There's just not much there. The flames are ahead of them in terms of first round draft picks. So if you go to market and you're like I got a good, solid, right-handed D-man who is having a great year on a bad team and you get, you know, cost certainty and extended contract and he's only 28. Make me an offer.

I bet you'd get some pretty good offers coming back. I mean, we saw the prices for the right. I mean, John Carlson. John Carlson. Was what a first and a second? Yep. You're beating that by 40% with Philipronic, given that contract? You'd think.

Maybe more, maybe 60%. Like, I mean, honestly, I don't, given the premiums that teams were paying for right-handed D at the deadline, I'm like, I don't think you're probably all that far off from the Quinn-use trade package in terms of the value you'd return. Yeah, because you got the contract term on a very good number. You have to be open-minded to that sort of thing. Now, Philip Ronick has an NMC, by all accounts, he's settled here.

Yeah. But, you know, we know how things change as losing piles up and as conversations change internally. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, I mean, I just wouldn't remove, like, you can't remove weapons from the table with a team in the state that the, the, Canucks are in. You know, I don't think you can be like, yeah, we need to move everything, but not our best asset.

It's like, that's probably a tough place to start here, right? You probably need to be willing to do just about everything with the future in mind and in my point of view. You know, I would just say whether you keep Philopronic for the duration of his deal or not, the probability that he ever over the life of this contract plays in. another actually important game in Canucks colors is like 35%. Hey, before we- That's just the truth.

Before we let you go, because this is making some noise on the Twitter machine right now, Batman doing a 180 and rescinding the penalty originally handed down to Ottawa from the Dadov trade. Obviously, lots of Canucks fans are up in arms because the Canucks moved from 32nd to 33rd in terms of picks. But it's funny, I just screen grabbed two different media pieces from, year apart where Batman was adamant, adamant that he wasn't going to change his mind on this one. That, you know, the punishment was harsh, but it was fair. And he wasn't going to resent it. Michael Anlar actually promised to be his best friend.

He said, I'll be your best friend. And they were like, okay. Your thoughts? Credit to Anlar, because he's been blasting the league every chance he's had in public about this. Yeah, he has. You know, lobbying works. Being a pain in the neck works, especially when you, you know, took over for Melnick and have done just about everything you possibly could write

in a market that was facing significant challenges because of, you know, ownership level neglect. But the, like, if you didn't understand that this was a high degree of probability outcome, you just haven't been paying attention to the NHL's relatively arbitrary standards of justice. Now, gentlemen, will you update me on the history of this? Has the senators had the option over the years to surrender first round picks and kept making them. Yes. I think it was 2004, 2025, 2006. And they just kept deferring and kept deferring and kicking the can down the road and promising to be the commissioner's best friend. It almost makes you wonder if this was the plan all along by both parties. No, I don't, I wouldn't, I'm not going there. What I'm saying is

history tells us that this is how it works. Do you remember the New Jersey Devils had to surrender a first from the Ilya Kovalchuk mess? I remember that. And they made a pick. They held their pick and picked Stefan Mattoe at number 31, the year they went to the cup final in 2012. And it was like, what? Yeah. But Lou Lamarillo knew that just like defer your punishment for as long as possible

because the NHL will lose their nerve. And in both cases, the team sold. And then the punishment was rescinded. So like, if you find yourself in this position, just sell your team and you're not going to lose your asset. But it's ridiculous. And very clearly from reports, like I saw Pierre LeBron, my athletic colleagues say that, you know, ownership change impacted this. Management change impacted this.

So the fact that the league was being punitive to people no longer serving. That's so dumb. The franchise didn't change. Like the franchise is the franchise. Like you take on those obligations when you buy a damn team. It's, I mean, it's a joke. Like there's no other good way to say it. The punishment doesn't matter.

The situations have been resolved. The two situations like this that I can remember where a team violated the rule and was punished by the NHL, that punishment was later rescinded because new people were in charge. So there's no teeth to this type of enforcement. And it feels completely arbitrary. That said, paying a million dollars to buy effectively an early second round pick. Like they're buying a first, quote unquote, but they can't trade it. So it's not an asset value.

And it's like a early, second, late first. That's not a great deal. Like, it's not like that's like a great outcome for the senators here, especially as it looks like they're going to miss the playoffs because Linus Olmert can't make a save. So, you know, it's not a fantastic outcome by any means. I don't think Canucks fans should be up in arms about moving from 32 to 33rd. the marginal cost lost of that small leap back into the second round is minimal.

But I think it does sort of shine a spotlight on this standard of NHL justice that's pretty laughable at this point, especially since we've seen the same story play out twice across the last two decades. I think that's a bad look for what NHL enforcement means and how we should take it seriously when these hockey operations violations occur. Drans, here we got to go. Thanks, buddy. Cheers, boys, Mike. Thomas Dranx from the Athletic Vancouver.

Fatman was adamant, adamant that he wasn't going to change his mind on this one, that, you know, the punishment was harsh, but it was fair, and he wasn't going to resent it. Michael Ann Lauer actually promised to be his best friend. He said, I'll be your best friend, and they were like, okay. I can be very, very persuasive.

On Leaftown. No. I'll be your friend. No. Oh, you're mean. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.