Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 3/19/25

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Jason Brough and guest host Jamie Dodd look back at the previous day in sports, plus they talk a massive Canucks win over the Jets last night as well as a look ahead to tomorrow's road game versus St. Louis, as Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance joins the show. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Whoa. Wait a minute. Huh? Hold up. What? Oh, okay. Did we just lose a f***ing Canucks? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da You're listening to Halford and Brough. Brock Besser, he's invisible. He's invisible and that's the problem. Heavy drive, tip, they score. Brock Besser. He's not a difference maker and that's what's worrisome here with his field coming up. Marcus Pedersen with a long drive right on.

Stopped by Hellenbeck rebound, they score. It's Besser again. Let's worry some here with his field coming up. Marcus Pederson with a long drive right on. Stopped by Hellebuck, rebound, they score! It's Besser again! We just gotta take it one game at a time. I kind of live by saying if you ain't got no haters, you ain't popping, so hate away. Good morning, it is Halford and Bruff here on Sportsnet 650. No, Mike Halford, I'm Jimmy Dodd filling in.

Again, filling in for the rest of the week here on the show. Bruff, good morning. Good morning. Poor Yannick Hanson had just been pointing out the obvious and then Ladi uses his words against him. Ladi, right? Hey, bad timing, Yannick.

Running his own version of like ice cold takes here. Bad timing. Just rip in the intro. Yannick comes on, he does great content for us. He puts his takes out there. He's honest. When you put yourself out there, that's the risk you take.

You're gonna get punished for doing so. That's a lesson to the kids. If you haven't heard that, he's like, I took that seriously. How dare you? How dare you, Yannick? I took it seriously. Good morning, Adog.

Good morning. Good morning, laddie. Hello, hello. Halvin and Bruff has brought you by the Delarie family of Honda dealers experience the Delari difference today. Visit your nearest Delari Honda dealer today. This hour is brought to you by North star metal

recycling, Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal North star metal recycling. They recycle. You get paid 1170 Powell street. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step.

So yesterday at this time I came on and I said, sometimes when I say we've got a big show coming up, I'm lying, but yesterday really was a big show. And that was true. Today is one of the ones where if I said it, I would be lying. We do not have a big show coming up. We had five guests yesterday.

We used up all our guests. We've got two guests today. So it's 6.30. We'll talk to David Amber at Sportsnet. At 8, we'll chat with Thomas Drantz from The Athletic, my usual cohost on Canucks Talk here on the station. We didn't have to talk to each other much yesterday. Right. We're going to have to dig deep and really're going to talk to each other. And really like struggle through a conversation or two with each other. Frank Ceravelli normally goes today, but he's got a thing, so we're going to bump him to Friday.

So we'll have a big show on Friday. That's right. And of course, they're all big shows. Don't worry. We'll just make it big in a different way. I actually want to talk about the Canucks now. There you go. How about that?

That's true. Thank goodness. It's, we've got all this open time on a, time after a win when there's lots of positive stuff to get into, and we'll get lots of fan engagement, listener engagement. I was just going to say that with the lighter guest list, that means we need you, the listener, to help us out as well. Send your thoughts in, 650-650 to the Dumb Bar Lumber text line. You can send what we learned in early. We'll read those at 8.30. But just send in your thoughts about the Canucks as well because we'll have lots of time to

dive in to the inbox and read some of your texts. So again, 8 o'clock Thomas Drance will join us to chat about last night's win for the Canucks and the road ahead as they go out on the road. Now at 6.30 David Amber from Sportsnet will talk all things NHL with David Amber. Before we do that let's tell everyone what happened. Hey did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety

simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources and safety training. Visit bccsa.ca. We start of course with the Vancouver Canucks. They got a much needed, very impressive win against the high flying Jets on Tuesday and Brock Besser broke his slump with two goals and an assist as the Canucks won 6-2. I actually want to recap this game. The Canucks began last night with one of their best and most encouraging first periods of the season. All three of their goals. Yes.

They scored three times in a single period. Oh my goodness. They were nice to watch and nice to see. Let's start with the first goal was a beautiful rush goal finished off via one-timer by Drew, wait, Drew O'Connor? Started with a beautiful rush goal finished off via one-timer by Drew O'Connor. There you go.

All right. We knew it was going to be a good night then. Great pass by Quinn Hughes Drew O'Connor. There you go. All right. We knew it was going to be a good night then. Great pass by Quinn Hughes to O'Connor, that makes sense. And a great play by Linus Carlson, who had been called up on an emergency basis because Connor Garland was hurt. He took a hit to make a pass to a streaking Teddy Bluger through the neutral zone. Let me say that again.

A streaking Teddy Bluger through the neutral zone. Let me say that again, a streaking Teddy Bluger through the neutral zone. Um, so I mean, that was, that was a great start. Now future Canuck Nikolai Ehlers tied it with a nice goal of his own on a play that I'd say Marcus Pedersen might want another crack at. But Brock Besser drew a penalty, then scored on the resulting power play when he perfectly tipped home

Quinn Hughes' point shot. Obviously it was a big goal for Brock Besser, but shout out to Lekker Mackie for looking real comfortable on the power play and giving the Canucks a legit one-timer threat from the left faceoff dot. We'll get into that after the game recap. Um, side note, obviously the Canucks a legit one timer threat from the left faceoff dot. We'll get into that after the game recap. Um, side note, obviously the Canucks didn't want

Connor Garland to miss yesterday's game, but it did allow Carlson into the lineup and he made a nice play on the first goal and I thought played very well overall. And it also pushed Lekker Mackey onto the first unit power play. Um, I got a question on social media that said, who do you bring out if Garland is ready to go or when Garland is ready to go, whether it's in St. Louis on Thursday or Saturday in New York against the Rangers. So we can dive into that question later. Anyway, the Canucks' third goal was one of their prettiest of the season.

It was another rush goal. This time it was a rejuvenated Besser, you could tell. Yeah. He found some legs, playing give and go with Elias Pedersen, another point for Pedersen because he eventually found a streaking Nils Hoeglinder right down Main Street to redirect it by Hellebuck. That goal came with just seconds remaining in the first period, giving the Canucks a two goal lead

over the top team in the conference and maybe the top team in the NHL. Now the Jets did make it three to two about seven minutes into the second. And it did kind of feel like they might take over the game at that point. And we were all like, oh boy, okay, it's another two goal lead blown at home.

But a strong four check by Nils Hoaglinder led to another Brock Besser goal. And all of a sudden the Hoaglinder-Peterson Besser line had two goals at even strength. Plus Besser had already scored with the man advantage. Besser's second goal, not quite as pretty as his first one, more of a hard working goal after he went down low to help Hoeglinder on the forecheck, got it back to Marcus Pedersen for a point shot and then got his feet moving, got his feet moving to get to the rebound.

So not as pretty and not a great rebound by Hellebuck, but just as encouraging to see the jump back in Besser's step. That made it four to two for the Canucks. And I'm looking down on my laptop, possibly to Google whether this was real or a dream. And I hear Shorty yell out, they got another one. And I was kind of laughing at that. Uh, five goals in this economy. It was Pugh's suitor score in that one. And I was kind of laughing at that. Five goals in this economy.

It was Pugh's suitor scoring that one. His 19th of the season off a perfect cross crease pass by Kiefer Sherwin. Was this 20th or his 19th? That was his 19th. That was his 19th, right? Yeah, I think that was his 19th. Okay. At any rate, huge kudos to, maybe it's his 20th, huge kudos to Kevin Lankton, who made a number of big saves on the night and didn't give the

Jets a thing in the third. It was all around a very impressive performance. It was absolutely. And there's a lot of different things we can get into there. You alluded to some of the young players in the lineup lineup decisions, but I do think we have to start with Brock Besser and the two goals, the assist, and just the impact that you could see, as you mentioned it had on him, right? That little bit of confidence from, Hey, you tip home a power play goal.

And then all of a sudden there's more jump. He's moving his feet. He's playing with extra burst. And then all of a sudden there's more jump. He's moving his feet. He's playing with extra burst. And we all know Besser is never going to be a burner, but there's still a difference between him playing with burst and playing with jump and not doing it.

And I also think, you know, I think back to what we've heard from Elliot Friedman about what Brock Besser went through at the trade deadline wasn't just hard for him, it was hard for his teammates as well because he is a long tenured popular player. He was really, he was really faking his comfort because there is a few quotes that came out from Brock Besser before the trade deadline.

He was kind of like, you know, I've just, you know, I'm comfortable with it. Yeah. you know, I'm just, you know, I'm comfortable with it. You know, if I get the contract here, it's fine. If I don't, I'll just go to free agency and I'll get the contract there. I'm pretty comfortable with it. But, you know, in the wake of the trade deadline and perhaps two things combined to make him feel

a little bit differently. First of all, how he was playing. And second of all, how it all went down. Um, you know, he had some words afterwards where he's just like, that was actually really tough to go through, you know, and, and, and I get it. I understand. But, um, he, he did kind of, and I, I, again, I, I

don't know if he was just trying to act like it didn't bug him, but, or it was just a line, but before the trade-off, I remember thinking like, oh, Besser actually seems pretty at ease with all this, but I don't think he was. I want to play some audio related to Brock Besser. We all know the captain loves to talk up his teammates after a big game. He talked up Elias Pedersen after a big game a little while ago.

Here's Queen Hughes on Brock Besser's game last night. I mean, Brock's one of my closest friends and he's been someone I can lean on and just been a really quality friend over the course of six years that I've been here. And obviously you never want to see anyone struggle but in saying that I think you know everyone on this team's kind of gone through some ups and downs this year and as far as Brock and the message that you know everyone in here needs to have is

just you know every game is a new night and each game has a new personality and you don't know you know when you're gonna break through so hopefully he can kind of get on a roll here. So, earlier in the show, I was wondering, was that 19 for, for Suter? I forgot that he had an empty netter. That was, that was his 20th of the season. So Suter had two goals, Besser had two goals.

So those were the pending UFAs that the Canucks held onto. And if you want to call them their own rentals or whatever, they didn't trade them, they kept them and Brock Besser was struggling pretty badly. So it was a big game for him, but getting to 20 goals was also a big deal for Pugh Souter. And here's Rick Taka talking about Pugh Souter.

Yeah, he scored his 20th. I told him after the game, cha-ching, right? That's a cha-ching goal. But yeah, no, Suits is a really smart guy. And I've given him some tough assignments this year. That's a tough line to shut down. They're probably one of the best in the league. And he's just a smart guy. Everybody says,, and you know, he's just a smart guy.

Like, you know, I've never, he says, well, you know, it's foot speed, but he looks like he's fast out there to me because I think he's got a, he's got a good brain, right? Um, but yeah, cause score 20 goals, shut down the other team's best line is, is a, that's great for us. The fact that the Canucks didn't get, so they

say, great offers for Brock Besser and I don't know how much they shopped Pugh suitor. I have no idea because, you know, in my mind, in some ways he was more important than Brock Besser to them, just the fact they didn't have any. Well he's the centre. He's the centre.

And he plays on a PK that Rick Tauke had actually called maybe the most positive story of the season that we don't talk about much. Um, but do you think it had anything to do with the fact that neither of those guys is super fast? Well, I think in Pugh's suitor's case, it's not just the speed, it's the, like he's not big or fast, you know what I mean?

If he was one, if he was like six, two and not very fast and a center, he definitely would have, people would have like, oh yeah, we gotta get him, right? Or if he was 5'11", but really, really speedy, I think you'd see something different. It's the combination of not having either of the physical characteristics that teams value and really look for.

But as Tauke said, you can get hung up on the physical stuff all you want and yeah, in an ideal world, would he be bigger and faster? Sure. But he's still effective. And at the end of the day, that's what matters. It's his hockey IQ that carries you through. I think there's going to be teams that regret not going in on Pugh's suitor.

Like that's a guy, it's such a cliche now to be like the Swiss army knife thing. But don't you, isn't that exactly what you want in your lineup come playoff time? As a guy you can plug in anywhere, wing, center, whatever line, PK, and know like the matchup role and know that he's going to be effective. What if you have an injury? He can do anything. Absolutely. You know, like he was playing on their first line in the playoffs last year. He scored a massive goal against Nashville to win that series. Like he can do so many different things. He's performed in the playoffs.

I think teams kind of- He's gonna get the unsung hero, right? Teams, oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like he's gonna get, and people will be like, we talk about him all the time. We talk about everyone. Talk about everyone, okay?

People might, well, what about Kiefer Sherwood? A lot of people say Derek Foreboard's the unsung hero. No, we talk way more about him. He might be the, he might be. I hear that a lot. Kieff Souter? They're not gonna say Derek Foreboard. No, we talk way more about it might be You know, I hear that a lot you suitor or board is is an unbelievable penalty killer Yes, pew suitor is less sung than Kiefer Sherwood What about Derek Foreboard? No, Derek Foreboard? Yeah, like if you're just He should get your award yeah because you used to throw them in the same category as Day Harney.

That's true. We need more. Four. Port license plates. Okay, I did a little bit, you're right. Yeah, that's a fair four board. We were like, oh, Juleson and Day Harney and four board out there.

It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't put four board in that group. Four board is not part of that category. All right, guys, slow down, slow down. Um, Laddie, what was the other piece of audio? Oh, I wanted to play something on Nils Hoeglund because, um, you know, a lot of people out there think that Rick Tuckett's got

something against Nils Hoeglund, uh, the many critics of Rick Tuckett, which we're going to talk about later in the wake of our interview with Rick Tuckett yesterday. Um, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't like Nils Hoeglund. Does this sound like a guy that doesn't like Nils Hoeglinder? Yeah, that's a good point.

I think with Hoggy, he told me this a month ago, he just wants one or two points. And I think since we've been giving him one or two points, he's really starting to play well for us. I think the last month he's one of our best fours and just an overall intensity and stuff like that. Um, do you give him five points? He gets in trouble. So we'll keep it the one or two points for Hoggy.

Uh, I love the guy, but, uh, yeah, no, he's, he's a guy that he's really good on the four check, right? If he can be that first guy in the four check for best and PD goes a long way. I think he brings a real energy to Pedersen. Yep. That Pedersen needs. And when Tauke made the decision to put Besser up there, he was like, you guys figured out. Having Holglunder on that line really helps them.

Now Holglunder still does the odd, come on buddy. Like he had, I think an icing in the third period that was kind of unnecessary. But you know, like hopefully that stuff goes out of his game eventually overall. Man, he's, he's, he's, he had such a tough start to the season. I think you got to give him credit for hanging in there and just taking

his lumps and he's really found his game. And the important thing with Hoglender, you reference some of the plays that drive coaches crazy, can drive fans crazy, but now what you're seeing and really for the last couple of months is, okay, those plays are still there, but the positives are outweighing the negatives, right? He is, he's doing enough good things that, yeah,

would you love him to clean up those mistakes or those plays? Of course you would, but you're still getting positive contributions because he's doing enough other good things. And early in the season, it was, well, you're not, you're not doing the good stuff. You're, and we're just left with the frustrating

plays. We're just left with the offensive zone penalties or the turnovers at the neutral or the blue line, right? The penalties were just killer. They were brutal. So look, he's, he's never going to be a perfect player. That might always be an element of his game. Some of those plays that make you want to pull

your hair out, but he can do so many other good things when he's on his game that you can live with it. And I mean, we're talking so much about what the top six could look like going into next year. A productive Niels Hoaglander who earns his top six ice time, that could be a really big deal for this team that just desperately needs spark plugs, guys who can make things happen,

guys who can make plays with the puck and play with that energy. They need that at the top of their lineup. And if he can use this time down the stretch to kind of reestablish that confidence, reestablish at least being a candidate for that spot in the lineup, that could be a really big deal. That was funny yesterday when I asked you if

Tauke it should just put Besser back with Pedersen and we were both kind of like, I'm like, I guess he can try. Whatever. All right. But we weren't at all optimistic that it would work because neither guy was really driving play at all. Pedersen had shown some improvement in his willingness

to shoot the puck, but I don't think he was out there, you know, putting the team on his back or anything like that. Yeah. But I guess that's what Tau, talk had ultimately decided to do. And I think maybe part of the reasoning in, in this was, and this is the idea behind not taking them off the power play either is like, these are our guys. Yep.

You know, like we're right. We're either gonna, we're either going to win with them or we're going to lose with them. So here's an opportunity. You got the Winnipeg Jets, really good team, coming into your home arena. We're going to put you up together, Besser and Pedersen and we'll have Holglinder there too,

provide some energy. What can you do with it? And now I'm going into Thursday in St. Louis and going, I hope we can have a repeat of that performance. Yes. You know, and that, and that's the key, right? Cause we've seen some good performances from

the Canucks in one offs, you know, I think about two games in particular against Toronto, one in Toronto and one back here in Vancouver that were like almost as positive as this, you know, if equally positive and they just weren't able to follow that up and build off it. And they're still in a very desperate situation. And that, you know, I was bringing up with

Brock Besser that it was difficult, not just for him, but for the whole team. And I do wonder, can him getting out of the slump and producing and having that moment propel, not just him to a strong finish to the season, but can that lift the whole team, right? To see that guy, who, you know, he heard Quinn Hughes say, Hey, he's one of my closest friends, right? We know he's well liked, he's respected. He's an important part of the fabric of the team can seeing him get going have more than just an individual impact. Now having said that I'm also mindful you know as you said we've been constantly looking for these turning point moments in the

Canucks season where okay this is what this is where they they get the good vibes back and they get rolling and I think even just last week Elias Pedersen scores a massive goal against Calgary to tie that game they win win in the shootout. They come from behind in the third period on the second half of a back to back huge game, right? And Quinn Hughes is raving about Petey after the game and we're thinking, all right, hey, Petey's back. He's back. This is it. The good vibes are back. Quinn Hughes loves Petey. It's all sunshine from here. And then they go out and they play that game against Utah, right? And it's incredibly frustrating. So I'm mindful that I'm setting myself up to be fooled again here thinking like oh

Is this the vibe shift we've been waiting for but it's at least a possibility and at a certain point They they have to grab on to something They have to take advantage of these moments of these one-off and say, we're not going to let this be fleeting. We are going to keep doing the things that made us successful tonight, going forward, and specifically against St. Louis tomorrow. Well, Jamie, last season we had a lot of success at the beginning of the year, this show,

by popularizing hashtag The Start, which led the Canucks to one of the best seasons in their history. So I'm wondering should the Canucks to that. Yes. It was their history. Oh, so I'm wondering the Canucks to that. Yes You know, it was all such a go back to the well guys all us Big big go back to the well guy So with that said should we try and popularize hashtag the finish and maybe that's what the Canucks need to get the ball rolling With an extended win streak into a playoff spot. Okay. Well, let's let them win two in a row.

Yeah. Well, that's because we haven't done hashtag the finish yet, that's why they haven't done that. So later on in the show, we're going to talk about what else happened in the NHL last night, because there were some very interesting storylines to follow. The Canucks are going into St.

Louis on Thursday and St. Louis has won three in a row and they're one of the teams that's in the race with the Canucks for this final wild card spot in the west. So that's going to be a desperate team that the Canucks are facing. And then Saturday they play the Rangers who are coming off a dreadful performance last night to

Calgary. Calgary went to Madison square garden, absolutely dominated the Rangers and the Rangers got booed off the ice. Um, so I don't know what's going on there. What's Miller done the last eight games? Yeah. Zero goals.

Um, well, I mean, we'll see. You tell them laddie. Yeah. Well, we'll see, we'll see what he. Just stirring it up. What, I mean, I can't wait for that game on Saturday morning. Here's Rick talking on, uh, what's facing

the Canucks coming up. Well, we're going in some desperate buildings, right? St. Louis is desperate, Rangers are desperate, Jersey wants to hold what they're trying to do, Columbus, these are desperate teams. The building's going to be loud, there's going to be a lot of heat on you

when you have a puck or to make a play, and I think this is good for us to be able to, you know, know that if we do the right things, it's okay. They'll put pressure on us, but if we all stick together that we can get through some pressure. So yeah, it's going to be a good test for us. A lot of desperate billions we're going into. So it's going to be fun down the stretch. Hopefully the Canucks can pull it off. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and brough. The reprogramming the brain thing. Yes.

I noticed caught on, on social media and a lot of the critics of Rick Tocket, basically they're, what they were saying is like, who does Rick Tocket think he is to try and reprogram the brain of a guy that's had a hundred point season and showed incredible hockey IQ over his young career. And, um, talk would probably say to that, it was

like, Hey, fair enough. You know, if that's, if that's what you think. But, um, you know, I, I think, you know, the goal that the Canucks scored, the pretty goal that they scored when it was Besser, Pedersen and Hoaglinder. It's funny because there was a regroup that Besser led, but I think that was more like recognizing there's not much time left in the game and there

was an opportunity to regroup and create speed through the neutral zone. And that's exactly what they did. And they made some really nice passes, including some East West passes. Yes. But the thing is, is like, they got themselves going north. Yes.

They were playing with speed through the neutral zone. Through the neutral zone. And I think that was the key on the first rush goal they scored when Lienis Carlsen made that nice play along the wall and Teddy Blugger was able to skate onto that pass and he had the neutral zone essentially all to himself. He got it to Quinn Hughes, Quinn Hughes got it to Drew O'Connor for the one timer and that was

another nice goal, but it all started with speed through the neutral zone. So just to back up a little bit, what did you think about when Rick Taukett said, we got to reprogram Petey's brain a little bit. Did you have a feeling that that comment was going to take off on the social media? Well, I took, well, yes, first of all, I was not surprised, but that was the thing that kind of got the most traction from that interview on the show yesterday. My initial reaction though, it wasn't that they were trying to get him away from the things that led him to have a hundred point season, led him to be extremely productive.

If anything, it's we got to get him back to that. We got to get him back to doing some of those things because it's not as if Pedersen was never capable of playing a fast game, playing off the rush. He scored plenty of goals off the rush. He's been a very effective player. Yeah, when he was cruising through the neutral zone with the puck and confident and was decisive. So to me it wasn't like, oh this guy when he was at his best was playing the wrong way and we're going to fix that and we're going to change that. It was this guy hasn't been at his best in an awfully long time and we need to reprogram

him to get there. Now, I think there's also an element of we want you back to that version, but with some other things added, right? With some other or maybe a slight shift in focus that we think will make you a more winning player come play off time or in really meaningful games. But man, the whole talk at conversation in this market, I think has gone off the rails a little bit. And I think the reaction. I saw one comment was like, but the talk, it's trying to turn PD into a third line checking center. I'm like, he's not, he would actually prefer the hundred point version.

He would very much. And you know, people are sharing clips of goals he scored off the rush and like, because there's an East West pass in it, it's like, well, I'll talk, it won't let him do that. It's like, guys, if you think because Tauke it is saying, we want to play a North South style, that he means literally, you're never allowed to make a horizontal pass.

You're only allowed to make vertical passes. You've lost the plot. And those two goals in the first period are great examples. Do you think Tauke is sitting on the bench pulling his hair out because they made some horizontal passes off the rush? Of course not. Carlson, what are you doing? Get it north.

Because they were playing with speed through the neutral zone, which is the whole thing that he's talking about. That's what he wants. That's what he wants. That's what he's trying to emphasize. So I have no problem whatsoever with him saying, Hey, let's not try to slow the game down so much. Let's play with speed because you know what playing with speed does. It gives Pedersen the chance to flex his creativity, to be dangerous.

When you're backing up the defenseman, you got that creative. You have the space, you have the time. When you're standing still, it's not so easy. So I just, I, I get it. Look, fans are very passionate about the team. It's been a super frustrating year. And at a certain point, I think what happens is you're making jokes on social media, but then

like the jokes stop, you, you, you like believe the jokes at a certain point, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden you're just saying wild things that make no sense. Like, oh, I bet he hated that goal. It's like, no, because it was a good goal scored with speed off the rush.

That's more of what he wants. Um, yeah. I mean, the whole notion that Tauke it wants to turn Pedersen into a checker. I just don't know where you get that. He's been talking about how he wants Pedersen to attack space and how he wants him to shoot the puck. Like it's just not true. I think one of the issues with like a radio interview and fans listening, and it's totally understandable.

You're not, the fans aren't able to have the conversation with the coach and we aren't able to have the conversation with the coach and we aren't able to ask every possible follow-up question. Like one of them won't be like, well, that doesn't mean you don't want any East West passing or any horizontal passing as you put it. And you'd be like, of course not. Yeah. It's like that's part of scoring off the rush.

Yeah. And you, and you, and you can't, you know, the fans aren't able to have that conversation with Rick Tucker where he Tauke where he's like, where he's able to say, well, that's not really what I mean. Yeah. But by that, so it is, it is tough, but listen, I think, um, I think this, this is a conversation

that the Canucks are going to have to have. I mean, first of all, with Rick talking about whether or not he wants to come back and, um, you know, whether or not, um, you know, they can come together on a contract for him. They do need to talk about the style of play and whether or not they are ever going to be able to progress to the type of team like a Colorado

Avalanche or the Winnipeg Jets when they're at their best or the Florida Panthers, because those teams don't play the same style as the Canucks do. No. They don't. And what the Canucks have looked at is their roster and they've said, well, on a night to night basis, on an average game, I don't think we

have the horses to play the same style as a Colorado. Now you never know. Maybe they're wrong about that. I don't know. I I've been wrong before, but I don't see it myself. I don't see the speed through the neutral zone. Um, I don't see them having enough real play drivers upfront, but I don't know.

Maybe you take the shackles off and they can do it. But don't forget why Rick Taukett had so much success last season. He taught this team how to play a structured game. They were a defensive disaster before he showed up. Now at some point you do want the team to progress and that's going to be on management to get better players upfront and more skill and more creativity

and more speed. But right now, I would wager if that the Canucks open it up and said, okay, we're back to, I don't know, for lack of a better way of saying it, Bruce Boudreaux style hockey, I don't think it would go well. No, it wouldn't. They need to keep that defensive foundation. And I'd also say, look, there are personnel limitations holding the Canucks back from being a more dangerous rush team. Dranter. Yeah. How surprised were you by that performance from the Canucks back from being a more dangerous rush team. Drancer, how surprised were you by that performance

from the Canucks last night? Well, I was, I mean, look, entering the game last night, Connor Hellebeck was a 9-2-7 save percentage on the year. Um, you know, he, he's very rarely allowed more than two goals in the first period. Right? He, here's the thing, right?

A nine to seven save percentage. I mean, we used to see Roberto Longo do that like every other year in this city. Right? But the difference is, is that when Longo was doing that league average save percentage was regularly like nine 15, nine 13, nine 11, right? Nine, nine Oh one to be a nine to27 goalie on pace to play 60 games in a 900, say, percentage league, in a 4-3 league, I mean, that's, you know, those three outrageous Dominic Hashig-level seasons in terms of the value you're providing, in terms of the amount of goals you're preventing

by simply being the best goaltender on the planet. And, you know, Hellebuck was very, very human last night. Right, I think the first goal, it's off the rush. It's got East-West movement to it, but it squeaks by him, right? The Niels Hoaglander goal likewise, off the rush, East-West movement, but it squeaks by him. He's flailing on that save, falling backwards basically into his net.

And then of course, failing to cover that pock that really iced the game. Right. I mean, that was the key moment because, uh, Nikolai Ealors had just hit the post on the other side, right? You were literally a half inch from three, three, and then Besser pokes that one home. It goes to the net hard. I mean, I mean, Johnny on the spot from, from Brock Besser, who had a great game and that kind of, that's kind of, that's kind of it. Um, so I think more than anything,

I was surprised by how human hellabook was now look, you're going to get those games every now and then it's still, you're still a goalie. It's still the NHL. Uh, even the Canucks have finished. Even the Canucks are going to have games like that over an 82 game season. Um, but yeah, I mean, I thought it was, you know what it was? We haven't had a lot of nights where I watched a Canucks game and I thought what the Canucks are trying to do is all working and

what their opponent is trying to do is not. And last night felt like what the Canucks were trying to do, it all worked. And what their opponent was trying to do, none of it did. And it is still impressive because it is the Winnipeg Jets there. They entered the game as the best team in the world and in the league, which is the best team in the world to this point in the season. But yeah, I mean it was a big one for Vancouver. Obviously a lot of focus on Besser getting the two goals and the assist and he just desperately needed that. But Niels Hoaglander playing with Pedersen and Besser, you know, Bruff and I were talking on the show yesterday, like can Pedersen and Besser get each other going

if you put them together? They, they need it so badly. I think Hoaglander is a really important ingredient in making that line work though. And you know, Tauken had some praise for him after the game. If he can establish himself as a regular fixture in the top six, providing positive value for this team. And not only that, but help Pedersen and Besser get going

That is a potentially really significant development for the Canucks going into the playoff push this year But also really as you start to look at how their top six make shape up next season as well Yeah, I mean Holglander speed is required on that line, right? Especially with Pedersen not driving through the neutral zone with the same sort of verve to, for lack of a better word, than he's typically had this season, right? So I think what Hoaglander brings in transition has been really big on that line. And then I think part of it, you know, there's sort of two things that I think he has to do if he's going to stay there. And I think he's been able to do them. The first is he's got to play his game, right? He can't adjust who he is,

right? He needs to still be doing some of that Energizer bunny, or I guess Rick, Rick Toggett would refer to it as a buzzsaw, right? He needs to be a buzzsaw. He needs to play a physically assertive game. He needs to win those battles. He needs to, you know, play that marauding style that he needs to be effective. He needs to be a dog, right? He needs to win those battles. He needs to play that marauding style that he needs to be effective. He needs to be a dog, right? He needs to be a dog. Well, the four check you made on Besser's second goal.

Exactly. Perfect gives Besser time to get there and help him out. And then Besser gets it back to the point. And Hellebuck, as you mentioned, didn't play it well, but they had a goal there and it all started with a Nils Hoaglander four check. Yeah. Hellebuck, as you mentioned, didn't play it well, but they had a goal there and it all started with a Nils Hoaglinder four check. Yeah. Well, I'm like, you know, I had a conversation with Rick Cockett on the road trip, the last road

trip where, you know, team Canada's coaching staff, for example, was struggling to figure out who they should play with McDavid. We all saw it happen in real time, right? That Reinhardt, Miner, Marner combination, like didn't work really, right? Marner and McDavid didn't work until, oh boy, did it ever in the final game, right? And so they were trying to figure out who to put with McDavid. And there's all sorts of those classic LSAT logic games restrictions,

right? Where it's like, no, we need this guy on that line. No, that, that doesn't work. You know, finally they stumbled on Braden point, right? But that was a tough one for them because Cooper prefers Braden point at center, right? Like Cooper likes brain point at center and, and talk. It was saying, you know, he was sort of, um, like hammering the hammer in the table, being like, what about Brandon Hagel, Brandon Hagel, Brandon Hagel? So, uh, and, uh, So, and, you know, one reason they didn't go to that was, you know, when Hagel plays with Kucherov, right, there's this idea in Tampa that he doesn't play his game. He doesn't play the game that makes Brandon Hagel, you know, a beloved Canadian hero. And so, so I think there was, I think there's been some reluctance to bump

Hoaglander up in part because what Hoaglander does that this team needs, right? In terms of playing that game can go away or has gone away historically when he's been given opportunities, especially to play with Pedersen, who is a good friend of his, they both like playing with each other, right? Like Pedersen loves playing with Hoaglander, but if Hoaglander plays a skill game, there's this belief that the club like loses him, right? And so continuing to do that, that's going to be essential.

And then the other side of it is he's got to avoid the mistakes. Like he's got to avoid, you know, the penchant for bad penalties, the penchant for turnovers, just when you enter the offensive blue. Yeah. Like he's got to avoid some of those mistakes that have really held him back from getting the sorts of opportunities that I think his talent is clearly warranted across his entire NHL career.

Like this guy arrived in the NHL already made top six forward and it's really just sort of a little bit of hockey IQ stuff that has held him back. But I will, I don't think Codeland has poor hockey IQ. I know that his work rate is, is high. Like I know that his preparation is highly admired by the organization, obviously at a great summer, right? So there's no reason he can't get there. He just hasn't to this point. But if he can hold that down, man, that would be huge for this club.

Drantz, I'm curious to get your comments on what Rick Tuckett said on our program yesterday. I assume you've heard the interview and you've seen some of the conversation around Tuckett's remark that they're trying to reprogram Elias Pettersson's brain to make him go a little more North as opposed to regrouping. Yeah. I mean, I've obviously been listening to every moment of your show this week, uh, while playing, I miss you, um, you know, curled up into a ball on my, on

my sofa. Um, no, look, the, the, I was a little surprised, I think by the reaction in the market. It would be one thing if you were talking about, you know, quote unquote, reprogramming Pedersen, you know, in the middle of the 2022, 23 season, I think it's a very, a very different thing to be talking about it now, given some of what Petterson has dealt with across an extended stretch that had even his most vociferous believers and supporters really questioning some of, some of their takes, right? And by the way, I'm speaking for myself, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean, Pedersen's needed to be coached this year.

Surely. Right. There's no one who would have watched his performance over the course of the season and thought, yeah, it's fine. This guy doesn't need work. Like this guy doesn't need support. This guy doesn't need help. This guy doesn't need to, you know, have things sort of just flipped a little

bit to view them from a different angle. Right. Like clearly he has. know, I have things sort of just flipped a little bit to view them from a different angle. Right? Like clearly he has. And so, I mean, I thought that was really what talk it was getting at was just like how we're trying to get them back on track, how we're trying to coach this guy up. And I don't think it's like up for debate that

that's been required over the course of the season. Surely. Yeah. Move your feet and attack space. That's, you know, that's okay. Like do some things to get you going, you know? Like that's, that's kind of it. I don't think it's that Pedersen needs like a

fundamental, you know, um, like crash course in how to play winning hockey, but I do think he's needed some, some, you know, I'm sure over the course of the season, some guidance on just like little things you can do to put yourself in the right positions to start to get lucky, to start to feel good about your game, to start to play free, to start to make a difference. And look, the last five games, uh, he's been way more productive and this club needs that to continue, like absolutely needs that to continue because, you know, as we know, this team has a pretty high floor

with the way they defend. They don't need to be an elite offensive team to outlast the Blues and Calgary and Utah, but they do need enough offense. They do need enough. And Pedersen, Stern, the drink a little bit is going to be absolutely required if they're going to get enough.

Driancer, you and I are both on the same page on one thing. We both look at Jonathan Leckermackie on the power play and think that guy looks like he belongs on an NHL power play. Do they keep them in that spot if Garland returns to the lineup? They have to.

I mean, I don't know if they will, but they have to. to the lineup? They have to. I mean, I don't know if they will, but they have to, and you know, like he, I mean, he looked like a young Thavo Taravainen out there. Um, the, uh, the, the level of composure and details, and one thing I really liked about that

sequence was one thing that now it's even more important when you're on your downhill side so when a righty is on the right side flank the lefty is on the left side flank then the way they were running it last night where they're both on their one-timer side which is in line with talk its preferences it's more important when you're on your downhill side than on your one-timer side but I think a big issue that the Canucks have run into on the power play generally is the flankers don't move the puck quickly enough. Yeah.

Right. And, and you see this a lot, especially with young players in the NHL is the puck goes to the flank and the guy like skates around a bit, right. Where, where if you can keep the puck moving, right? Um, you'll keep the defenders moving and eventually you'll have that room to skate in side as opposed to just like up or down, right? Or, or back, right? Cause you, what you want to do is get inside and get a better angle for the shot. And I just thought he showed a lot of discipline and actually a lot of

maturity, like an incredible amount of maturity in that the puck was off his stick right away each time. Often he picked the pass before he got the puck. And I thought that level of nuance in terms of how he was operating five on four, I mean, that's uncanny for a guy who's played as few NHL games as he's had, who's played as a few power play one minutes with those other two guys up high, Patterson and Hughes, as he has to just sort of fit in seamlessly and then have the confidence to execute simply, I think is, yeah, a really fun indicator of sort of where his hockey brain is at in terms of stationary attacking situations.

And, you know, I do think you'll see, you know, there's some, I think, some like, on the awareness side, some like young player limitations that Le Caramacchi is going to work through here in terms of contributing to the build-up, right? I think he's pretty reliant on attacking downhill, and I think he's pretty dynamic in attacking downhill. But I think when it comes to like five-on-five play and contributing to the build-up within a team concept, I think there's, and this is again very common, especially for young players these days, I think there's some stuff that he again, very common, especially for young players these days, I think there's some stuff that he's leaving on the table

that's going to be a work in progress for him. But on the power play, there's none of that. On the power play, like you can just see it. You can see the comfort level, you can see the composure, and it was the rapid puck movement that really stood out to me as something that is very rare to see from a guy his age at this level. So yeah, I mean, I want to see more of it. I think the shooting threat matters, right? I mean, we didn't see it last night, but this guy can absolutely launch it. And I think

that helps. I think that's an edge that he has over Connor Garland in that power play spot. And especially if you keep them on the flanks, right, then that diminishes the advantage that Garland would have over him, which would be on puck retrievals, right? So I liked the way that they ran it last night and I think the power play is an interesting thing. Sorry, I know that this is where I go on too long, but really quickly, power play has 11 goals in 17 games since the four nations face off. And I know that the Utah four minute, right? Like absolutely did

nothing. Power play sequences stand out in people's brains. And that we're sort of thinking about the power play as an area where the Canucks have not been especially dynamic. And I don't think that's wrong, but I do think it's worth noting that, you know, while the conversion rate's been like just below average, 21%, I know like five, 10 years ago that would have been really good, but now it's like 18th in the league over that stretch, given how good power plays have gotten and how good shooters have gotten. So the conversion rate is ticking away at like a rate slightly below average, but the results have been fine, right? The results have been fine. And here's where again, the Canucks have this high floor.

They don't need the power play to be explosive. I mean, if it is fantastic, obviously, but if it's, if it's scoring 11 goals over a 17 game stretch and the Canucks are only a minus two goal differential on the power play or sorry, on the penalty kill across 17 games, which they have been right now that their penalty kills elite. Well, that means you're winning the special teams battle on a lot of nights. Yeah. this like stretch in which the Canucks have, you know, basically played just over 500 hockey, but have very much kept their playoff lives, you know, sort of, they've kept the heartbeat going on their playoff life. I think that's been crucial because they've been outscored five on five and we've watched them play and they haven't played that great. And this has

kind of bailed them out is Is this combination of the power play being just good enough and the penalty kill becoming suddenly elite. That's been an essential ingredient that's allowed this team to keep their head above water. Big part of that penalty kill is Pius Suter. He also got to 20 goals for the first time in his NHL career last night with a pair. And so much of the conversation post-deadline understandably has focused on not moving better. Alvin's commentary, where that goes, but Pugh Suter, a really significant part of this team who's also a pending unrestricted free agent, given how the emphasis we expect to see on them adding true top of the lineup talent at forward in the summer and what that

means for their salary cap spending. Do you still see a path forward to retaining Pugh Souter beyond this season? Well, I do. And I think the Pugh Souter, the decision to keep Pugh Souter was slightly different than the decision to keep Brock Besser. I mean, one thing I was told, and I was never able to confirm like I was that Besser was never that the connects never received the offer of first round pick that Besser was never, that the Canucks never received the offer of a first round pick for Besser. I was never able to confirm like what the Canucks were offered for Pugh suitor, but my

understanding is that there was interest, right? Like I think the decision to keep Pugh suitor was slightly different. There was less of that like price enforcement angle to keeping Puse. And I think the explanation there is I do believe that the club thinks there's a more, well not a more, but a relatively straightforward path to keeping him in extension talks either before the end of the season or this summer, before July 1 anyway. What you learned in the last 24 hours in sports, you can sext it into 650, 650. anyway.