Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 4/1/26

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, plus they set up tonight's 'Nucks game at Colorado with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Sterkin and Markstrom. You don't see this. Gibson keeps it out. Good morning, Vancouver, 601 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. It is Halford.

It is Brough. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming live from the Kintech Studios in beautiful Mount Pleasant in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Ada, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well.

Hello, hello. Halford and Bruff of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Do you have payday loan debt? If you do, Sands and Associates could cut your debt by up to 80% with no upfront fees. Visit them today at Sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour 1 is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Banker's Premier Metal Recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal.

North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle. You get paid. visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to live from the Kintech Studios. Step strong with orthotics and footwear from Kintech. And if you want to text in to the show, you can text in 650-650 on the Dunbar Lumber text line trusted by contractors and DIY champions across Metro Vancouver

for generations. Find them at three convenient locations or visit Dunbar Lumber online today. It was brought to my attention yesterday that we are no longer operating in Browell, broadcasting from Fairview slopes. We're like two blocks out of the boundary now. So hello Mount Pleasant and hello to all of you in listener land.

I didn't realize that. Fairview slopes. So long, stink town. I didn't realize that like science world's like right over there. Science world's right over there. I didn't realize that. Like I couldn't understand our location. Like, oh, it's like four blocks from us.

Just keep pointing. Science world's right over there. It's radio. They can see where I'm doing. The direction that means nothing to nobody that's listening to right now. You couldn't understand it? Yeah, I just didn't have my reality. Realty.

the reality of your location. Yeah, I didn't have my bearings. You didn't have your bearings. Yeah, I'm like, oh, I'm four blocks from like Maine and like walk down Maine. There's science world. I just didn't realize it. You're all twisted around. Yeah, I mean, I'm in a really new strange world. Maybe you should go there and learn some stuff.

I should. You're like a dog that got off leash. Where am I going? God, he's going on about gravity again. Weren't you, man? I want to. All right. It's time now for the morning guest list.

It's the Duick Morning Drive. Brought to you by the Duick Auto Group. It begins at 630 this morning. David Amber. Canada. SportsNet NHL host is going to join the program. Three games in the NHL tonight, including your Vancouver Canucks and the Colorado Avalanche on Scotia Bank Wednesday night hockey. There is also a very big game in terms of playoff jockeying in the West tonight between

the ducks and the sharks. David Amber is going to join us at 6.30 to talk about all that. 7 o'clock. Frank Sarah Valley, our NHL insider from Victory Plus, is going to join the program. Busy night in the NHL last night with 10 games, a ton of developments in the Eastern conference playoff chase. We can also get Frank's intel on the GM situation in Toronto. Yesterday, Keith Pelly, meet with the media after dismissing Brad Tree Living. We can talk to Frank about all that at 7 o'clock. 7.30, Adam Jenkins is going to join the program.

He, of course, is the lead play-by-play commentator for one soccer. Canada finally knows its final opponent for the group stage at the World Cup as Bosnia, upset Italy and penalties yesterday to join the field. Canada also had an eventful friendly against Tunisia yesterday. I say this despite the fact it was a nil-nill-nill score line. One of my favorite soccer scores, nil-nil against Tunisia. Can you imagine showing up to that game? And then it was, what, an hour and a half lightning delay?

And then it was like, but don't worry. Once a game gets started, it'll be awesome. I waited around for this. Nil-nil. It's midnight. I've got to go home now. Bye. Okay.

So Adam Jenkins is going to join us at 7.30 for some Canada's soccer talk. 8 o'clock Thomas Drance. It's going to join the program. Canucks talk, Athletic Vancouver. You know him. Well, Canucks has mentioned in Colorado tonight. It's a 5.30 puck drop. Note the start time.

You can hear it all right here on SportsNet 650. We can talk to Drans about that. We should also discuss the Canucks front office situation in light of what Nick Kiprios said on our show yesterday about the future of GM Patrick Lvian. So Dranser at 8 a.m. Laddie, you look like you're just waiting to chime in. Is it an April Fool's Day thing?

Well, I wanted to make clear that we're not. pulling any pranks today. We're not going to be one of those shows. Well, I'm not wearing any pants. Other than that, other than that, we're not doing anything goofy for April fools. I forgot there are other people in this building now. I want to have the trust with the listener, you know?

We're not going to pull the wall over their eyes. Thank you for that disclaimer. So no April Fool's, lots of guests, lots of stuff to get into. Without further ado, Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened?

I missed all the action because I was. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.com.

It was a busy night in the NHL yesterday. We're actually going to skip over the Canucks entirely as we phase further and further away. I don't even know if they practiced, whatever. They may have. They may have not. That's up to you guys to find out now. It's not on us. There's too busy a night in the national hockey league. last night. We need to get into everything that happened.

And I guess we should start in the east because there was a ton of teams in action yesterday. None of them more successful, I would say, than the Boston Bruins. Yeah, the Bruins got a big win and gives them a six point, actually an eight point cushion on that last playoff spot. So it's them and Columbus still hanging on. But if you go up and down what happened last night, you know, Columbus actually lost to Carolina. The Flyers got the Halford and Brough jinks

because we had Kevin Kurz on yesterday to talk about the run that they were making, then they go into D.C. and they lose to the capitals. Sorry, Philly. The Red Wings got pumped in Pittsburgh. That's some nice alliteration. What did you do in Pittsburgh? We got pumped in Pittsburgh.

In a hockey game. The aisles lost in Buffalo, and there was, I don't know, what I'll claim a yikes loss by the Sends in Florida who were down 5-0 to the Panthers, a team that's not going to go to the playoffs and is kind of stripped down their team.

They were down 5-0-0 in the first period. It was awful for Lina-Allmark. But you know what? I watched the highlights of all five goals, and look, you never want to concede five goals in a period, but the Sends were terrible in front of them. I always look for, and Lattie, you'll appreciate these, like the East West goals because the East West seem past goals. Like there were a bunch that he was, you know, having to dive to his left or his right

to save and he couldn't come up with them. And there were some goals where the Sends just couldn't clear the puck. You know, there were second chances, third chances. Look, has he been good this year? No, he went through some stuff. Obviously some mental health issues. I know there was a story about him in the game. Tampa that preceded the Florida Panthers game.

And the story was like he needed rest. And that seemed to be coming from him. Like he was like, I'm not ready to go. But correct me if I'm wrong on this because that seemed to be the narrative that was built out there. And meanwhile, you got a guy like, I don't know, John Gibson for the Red Wings, who's just playing game after game after game after game. Also struggling right now. But people are saying like, yeah, which might be related to that, right?

but people are saying, listen, man, like you're our big money goalie. These are massive games for us down the stretch and like you need a rest right now. So I don't know what they're going to do with Linus Arm Allmark in Ottawa, but, you know, that was a disaster of a game last night. And Travis Green, the head coach came out and said, look, none of us were good. None of us were even close to good. But, you know, look, you lose in Tampa Bay and then you would think that you go, Florida. I know they're the two-time defending Stanley Cup champs, but Travis Greenwood would have been like, look, the Canucks beat these guys a few weeks ago.

Anyone should be able to do this. Anyone should be able to beat them and to be down 5-0 after the first period. That's a bad one. But, you know, back to the Bruins who did get it done. We haven't really talked much about the Bruins, but, you know, they hosted Dallas a good team yesterday and they beat them six to three. They've been better than expected this season. And I think if you look at their lineup,

it helps that they've got difference makers, difference makers, right? One of the Canucks have? No difference makers. Well, the Bruins still have difference makers. Up front, they got Posternak. On defense, they got McAvoy and in goal. They've got Swamen, who's playing well again.

Yeah. I do wonder if the Bruins are somewhat stuck where they are and stuck in the middle of the league, you know, the upper middle, but still in the middle. and I know it's kind of boring to keep pointing this out, but it is worth pointing out, can you win a Stanley Cup without an elite center? They had, the bees had Bergeron and Creachy in 2011.

Bergeron's going to be a first ballot hall of famer. Creachy led the playoffs in scoring for two consecutive post seasons. You know, what do the bees have right now? What are they down the middle? I think Fraser Minton might have been their one C. And they've got, is Fraser Minton, Pavel Zaka,

and good old former Vancouver Kenakalias Lindholm down the middle. And then Sean Corolley's there for us. So some good players, like Fraser Minton's been a really good story in Boston and Pavel Zaka, who was linked to the Canucksian trade rumors a few times. He's having a good season.

And then you got Elias Lindum, who's a solid player, right? He's a good player. He's probably a 2C or a 3C in the NHL and he's good. But there's no, there's no Selky trophy winning Stanley Cup. type on that

roster like Barkoff on Florida or Bergeron when the Bruins had him and I would probably point out considering how well they're playing right now Nick Suzuki on Montreal who's got a pretty good running made in Cole Coffield but like

Montreal right now seems to have everything covered and if they can get the goaltending to continue to be covered I think they're going to be a really tough out in the east. Boston to me is the strange team that's had the amount of success that they've had in the Eastern Conference

because if you look at the makeup of the roster, you're right. There's no really high-end elite center. Some of the names of guys that are contributing on a regular basis, like remember, I geeky got off to the great start of the season. He slowed down a bit. Casey Middle Stats, now a second-line winger. Lucas Reichel's a third-line winger. They're Vancouver-Connect legend,

Lucas Reichel. By all accounts, they shouldn't be where they're at. But if you look at the standings, they've won four in a row. They're on 94. points. They're really not all that far behind Montreal and Tampa Bay in their division. Obviously, there's some very strong work in net. You got to give credit to what they've been able to do. I think the sum is greater than its parts, that old saying, but. But Posternak can drive the line. He can. You know, he's a winger, but he's the, he's the second

best winger in the league, right? Like you got Kutrov, who I think most people would say he's the best winger. Post had three assists last night. And then, you're right. I mean, there's a reason, Morgan Geeky is calling up goals. Like Geeky's a good player, but I think it's helped him playing with Posternak. Anyway, what happened in the West? Well, we'll go through some of

these other ones real quick in these. I know you ran through all of the scores, but I did want to mention the Sends game and all of these losses that you talked about. Interestingly enough, no one lost considerable ground on that final wild card spot in the East because so many of the results

went against the teams that were chasing. For instance, since the Islanders lost to Buffalo, that one was a killer because they lost that with three minutes left in regulation and weren't able to scratch out a single point. So that's a second loss and second consecutive night for the aisles, but they still hang within two points. I think the Red Wings might be cooked. I think they might be the one team right now that if you look at their recent run of results and where they're at in the standings, yeah, points-wise, they're still within spitting distance, but they've got a lot of teams to jump over. They don't look good right now. And we mentioned the goaltending in Ottawa with Allmark being an issue.

John Gibson was pulled for a second straight start after allowing three goals on 14 shots. It was actually a pretty quick hook by Todd McClellan last year as he tried to get that one back on the rails. It didn't happen. They lose 5-1 in Pittsburgh. So now the Red Wings have lost four or five. Yeah, they've got a couple of winnable games coming up.

I mean, Philly's been playing better, but they play Thursday in Philly and Saturday in New York against the Rangers. So they could get back in this thing pretty quickly. I got a feeling that the wings are out. Yeah. I think Philly bounces back, even though they had a disappointing loss yesterday. Because the thing is, that loss that the Flyers had in Washington,

in which, by the way, Alex Oveckin scored two more goals to get to 30 for the year. Washington is, again, on the outside of this thing looking in, but they're still fighting tooth and nail. So that was not a layup game for Philly. Washington's now 5-1-1 in its last seven. They've won three, so they're kind of hanging around the edges of it. The other team that you've got to keep an eye on right now, going in the wrong direction is the Columbus Blue Jackets,

because they are in the midst of their first real struggle in the Rick bonus era. The hurricane scored three times in the third period yesterday to beat the Blue Jackets 5-2. Columbus lost its fourth in a row. It's the biggest slump of the still relatively new Rick Bonus era. And they got to go to Carolina

on Thursday. The old rare Carolina back-to-back. Yeah, that's weird. The scheduling in the east is a little weird. And then Saturday, they host Winnipeg, which is maybe a team that we should mention. Well, we're going to mention them right now because we are going to go to the west. Here come

the Winnipeg Jets. The Jets recovered yesterday to beat the Blackhawks in overtime, moving one point back of the wild cards. But do we have the Kyle Connor goal, the audio of this one? So I don't know if you guys saw this or not, but yesterday, Kyle Connor and Connor Hellebuck went to the Cubs game and they got shouted out by the fans for being part of the U.S. gold medal winning team. They chug beers at Wrigley. They got on the big screen. So the vibes were high. Kyle Conner carried that over to last night's game. Here's the game winner in Chicago, Kyle Conner, for the Jets, and there's a reason that we're playing Winnipeg Jets audio. Let's hear it now.

Goes back out towards Sennar Eye. Shafley will pick it up. Turns in north, crossed over that line. Shepley, back out in front for Connor, a shot. He's scoh-three seconds into overtime. Kyle Connor, we'll get a goal. His 34th of the year. Jets win.

Jets win. Jets win. In overtime tonight. Now, if you're wondering, why the guy's so excited about a win against Chicago, two non-playoff teams this late in the season, don't look now, but the Winnipeg Jets are one point back of the playoffs in the Western Conference. It is incredible what they have done. And I'll add very quietly, very quietly from when I'm not even like a crazy winning streak or anything.

They've just done generally better than everyone else. They've won six of their last 10. They're the hottest team of the West. Everyone's like, look at them. They won six of 10. That's incredible. They've won two in a row, and all of a sudden, they are one point back of Nashville for that final wild card spot.

They might do this. They might do this. They absolutely might. You know, they might just be the best team of that group of Nashville, L.A., San Jose, Seattle. Seattle might be cooked. Like, okay, I want to mention Seattle here because Seattle is two points back of the playoff bar.

So with a single win, Seattle would be even on point. points at 77 and they'd be right in the mix for that playoff spot. Seattle is awful. Like, I don't know what they're like. Seattle's lost six of seven. They lost last night to the Oilers three nothing. Connor Ingram with a 27th save shutout for the Oilers. And yet somehow the Seattle Cracken are still right in the middle of the Western Conference playoff chase.

I know we talked about the Pacific Division being a pillow fight, but I think you got to look at that final wildcard fight as being the bigger pillow fight because at least the teams in the Pacific are winning a game now and again. Like this thing is an absolute snail race And Winnipeg has been able to play itself back into it And I mentioned that game I bet Colorado's like please don't make the playoffs jets Yeah, that's an interesting question

You've got the Connor Hellebuck factor I do want to carve out some time At the end of this first segment To just talk about the press conference That Keith Pelly held yesterday in Toronto There's a couple takeaways from that One was his big, long kind of answer about the requirements for the next leader of the hockey

ops in Toronto. And he said that the next leader will have to really understand data and the importance of data and where data is moving. Data, data, whatever. I can go with data. Every single decision that we will make will be evidence-based. evidence-based decisions are never wrong. Okay.

That's not to say that there's not room for the heart. That doesn't mean there's not room to check culture, but it's evidence-based. So you need to, you know, those guys that... Got to show your work. Play with a big heart. They actually have to put the heart on a scale and weigh it. It can be dangerous, you know.

And then determine whether or not they have a big heart. And, yeah, sometimes that's actually... Too big. It's going to be lethal, actually. What do you think of that pressur yesterday? Okay, the other thing that he said was that the Leafs are probably not going to rebuild. He said, a rebuild is needed when you are starting from scratch. Canucks are like, yeah, we know.

And then he went on to say, we all know the Toronto Maple Leafs have foundational pieces in place. And he went on to say if they can surround those pieces with the right structure and culture. and culture, then it's a retool and not a rebuild. Now, having said that, he left himself a bit of an out. Should the new head of hockey ops convince him otherwise? But my response to that was, will the new head of hockey ops get the job if he disagrees with the main thrust of Pelley's argument?

Yeah, that's the big question there for sure. Because I don't think I'd get that job, even if I was qualified, which I'm not, obviously, but I don't. think I could go in there and and give him the honest answer of yeah you guys don't need to rebuild because you've got Matthews and Nylander like I I don't know I don't know how anyone could make the moves over the next year or two really to take advantage of having Austin Matthews and William Neelander and put them in selves in the position to be Stanley Cup contenders which is what MLSC will want.

Austin Matthews is a really good player still, but he's not the Austin Matthews of a couple of years ago. Nielander's soon going to be into his 30s, and he's a bit of an odd ball anyway. Are those, those are your two foundational pieces that you're hoping to win a Stanley Cup in, and you've got very limited prospect pool, you've traded away first round picks.

I honestly feel like kind of similar to what I've, said in the past when the Canucks have said, we don't need to rebuild and this was, you know, I don't know a year ago. I'm like, well, good luck with that. Good luck with that hybrid rebuild or retool on the fly. Yeah. It's very, very, very rarely works.

So I had a bit of a different takeaway on this. And I think that, I think that they're open for whatever. I know that Pellie and the takeaway from everyone was that he said retool, not rebuild. I actually think that all of this, this caught that organization by surprise to a certain degree. It's very obvious to me.

I don't know if maybe you'll disagree, but it's very obvious to me that they were not anticipating having to do all of this, the dismissal, the press conference, all of it this week. I mean, we had Nick Krippreels on the show yesterday, and he talked about how it felt like announcing Bradtree Living's dismissal an hour before a puck drop before they took on Anaheim. It felt like it was rushed. Frege alluded to the fact that they were worried about the news.

out. It seemed like Tree Living put them in a position where he said, if you're going to think about getting, or you are thinking about getting rid of me, do it now. Yeah, so I can go to Cabo for a bit. Right. And then maybe to Nashville to take the job. So there was that there was, right. I think that this is an example of an executive being forced into a decision that he wanted to take more time with and not having the answers. Quite frankly, he needed to have yesterday. Everyone that I talked to after that press conference said the same thing. We're not really sure what's going to. on here. And it didn't get a lot clearer from what the president had to say yesterday because

that was very up in the air. There was a lot of, we think we want to do this, but someone could come in and show us something different. The only, my biggest takeaway was if you are a data-driven guy and you can show your work that you do need to tear that thing down and back it up with evidence, you might be in line for a tear down in Toronto. Also, two names. And it's the same guy. Mike, you'll Okay, before we get to that, the other thing that could totally change things is if Austin Matthews went to them and said, I want out. There you go. That could absolutely tilt things in a certain direction. I know a few months ago or whatever, he said, you know, I'm on board with any changes, but, you know, a few things have happened.

Since then, Mike Gillis. Yep. I think he's going to get interviewed for that position. And I'm sure he's going to be able to make his presentation. slide show. And, you know, it does sound like, I don't want to say the perfect job for him, but like an opening for sure when Keith Pelly said that stuff about being data-driven and evidence-based, and that's Mike Gillis.

There are some owners and some, you know, high executives that do the hiring on NHL teams that are like, I want a hockey guy with pure hockey instincts, right? Like, I'll feel more comfortable with that. And then there are others, you know, maybe you could say the more corporate types that are like, I want you to do with your hockey team what we do in business when we have to, you know, start a project and people make their, make their cases. And it's not like, I've got a gut feel about like, I don't know, 5G or whatever. I don't know, right?

Like I, it's like, okay, here's our, here's our expenses. Here's, here's the risk profile. You know, this is what could happen. here's some what-if scenarios, you know, but I think, you know, here's something that you can point to that where it's worked in the past. And like, I don't know how much evidence you need, but, you know, I'm willing to give you more than just like, I've been in this game for a long time. And I know that this guy is something that we need. An example that just popped to mind would be Chris Drury going like, we need J.T. Miller.

Yeah, right. We need a J.T. Miller type for this team, you know, like, oh, yeah, where's your evidence? It's like, it's in my gut. It's hard and my soul. If you want to give me surgery and look into my gut, you're going to find the need for J.T. Miller and some donuts that I had 10 minutes ago. So I mean we need to make a horrible decision? Yeah.

My gut instinct. That's what that feeling is. It's too much coffee. So I will say this. Patrick Johnson from the province wrote a piece that I believe is online now about the possibility of Mike Gillis getting that job in Toronto. It's a strong advocacy piece for hiring Gillis. And I think part of it, there's some informed speculation that goes in a lot of this,

because you, I mean, Pige isn't the first guy to throw out there. Hmm, the guy that they're talking about in Toronto sure sounds like a Mike Gillis type profile. But I want to make it clear, there are countless other guys in NHL circles that are also data-driven, data-based. It's not just Gillis, but Gillis has the profile. And he's been out of the game for a long time. I think everyone's wondering when that right opportunity would come along for both parties, for Gillis and for the team that's willing to take that kind of chance, because it is a chance. thinking a guy that hasn't had a job in 14 years.

The perfect thing for Gillis would be that he could go to an organization that spends money. Yeah, absolutely. It'd be like, do you want, do you want a mine room? Yeah, yeah, we can pay for that. I know, we can pay for anything you want.

You want to bring any sort of sports science specialist. Yeah, sure. Like Keith Belly was talking about it. He said there's no team out there that will spend more money on non-salary. hockey ops than the Toronto Maple Leafs. They're already heavily invested

in analytics and data and all that sort of stuff. So if Mike Gillis were to go in there and convince him that he's their guy, I think he'd have the blank checkbook. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Our next guest from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk.

It's Thomas Drance here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Dranser, sir? Gentlemen, good morning. Hey, Drenser, are you going to that analytics conference? You just happened to be in Denver and isn't on right now? Yeah, yeah, it just ended. It ended yesterday. But yeah, I did a live show of the PDO cast with Dmitri Filipovich with Jared Bednar,

which was fascinating at the conference and obviously spent some time shaking hands. I also did my radio show from like a suite yesterday near where the conference was taking place to accommodate my schedule for the last. live show, but yeah, it was a really cool event. Part of league meetings, too, the NHL for the first time ever held league meetings for R&D staff, which is a pretty fascinating, you know, signpost of how far analytics have come, the, how, like, how thoroughly they've been embraced effectively, and then how quickly we're moving forward to a totally new era in which, honestly, you know, between AI and the mathematical

and technical proficiency of some of these folks working in the field now. I mean, I'm a dinosaur. Like, you're walking around that convention and you're hearing conversations about SaaS, like LinkedIn post stuff, you know? Yeah. It's a whole new world from, you know, my generation or my era of sort of analytics, curious folks who knew how to manipulate the URL on time on ice.com. Like, this is a totally new level.

What were some of the topics, the big topics? Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of discussion, obviously, about sort of player tracking, some interesting discussion about like the development of new knowledge in silos now that so much of the best data is private or in-house, right, versus the behind the net era where it was all public. some conversations about applications of AI. Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of interesting meat on that bone. AI can help in player tracking, can't it? I mean, I know it's not going to be perfect,

but some of the stuff that I guess analytics folks still do when they're tracking the games manually. Can any of that be done by AI? I mean, in terms of tracking itself, like sport logic has always been based somewhat on, machine learning, for example. So, I mean, I think there's applications of it. You know, my experience messing around with Clode and with ChatGPT is that like AI is still

in a trickster phase when it comes to specialized hockey knowledge. I find that it doesn't really help me bin data or build data sets, cohort sets, the way that, you know, even a tool like hockey reference player season finder does. I often find that it slows me down, that I'm faster working by myself or, you know, maybe getting some help on a spider, but then just sort of pouring through and binning the data set myself. Right. And that's, you know, I mean, you can try it.

Like, you can go on to any of these services and try to ask it like a hockey research question. You know, like here's one that might be relevant to. the next fans. You know, find me a player who produced like Elias Pedersen through 2024 and then fell off like he has since 2025, right?

Like, and you'll see. Like, you'll see the limitations. That said, you know, I'm not someone who pays for like the pro versions of these tools or has the more powerful in-house tools. You know, I don't own data stack. Like I've built my own data stack with which to sort of

through it. So I'm sure there are NHL teams using it with better dexterity than me, but, you know, I find that where some of these services are really useful for drafting emails or producing like corporate communications, obviously building code, they're sensational at, you know, making funny logos for your fantasy football team, like there's stuff that we're all using AI for. but the but the like the raw hockey knowledge I just think the internet is still like at least the public the publicly available hockey data like I still think requires a very high level of expertise that I just don't think the AI tools are that great at accessing yet but look it's coming okay let's get to something that Halford and I are more comfortable with that and that is gossip What are you hearing about what's going on in the Canucks front office and maybe above the front office because Nick Caprio's came out with a report and he said that and he said that, you know, he heard that Patrick Galvin was telling people that he's not going to be back.

And then we had Frank Saravalli on this morning and he kind of hinted at the possibility of Patrick Galvin being the man going forward. Yeah, and I mean, to me, that's no surprise. Like, I think the only thing that would surprise me is if the Canucks know exactly what this looks like on April 17th right now, I would expect that they don't. And I don't think that's a problem. Like, I don't think that's, you know, like, they don't know what they're doing. Like, that's not what my goal is here, right?

Like, I think, I'm sure when when a season, goes this badly. There's often a lot of jockeying behind the scenes, some administrative backfighting. There's cases to be made. There's evaluations to be conducted. And, you know, like decisiveness has not necessarily been a strong suit of Canucks ownership. Right? We've seen them both move too quickly and move too slowly. We tend not to see them move at all until they have an answer, which I think is bad process, right? I mean, I think if you do end up conducting a pretty significant change,

like a thorough change of Canucks hockey operations leadership, I think a search is essential for this franchise to conduct given that ownership has never done so across their 20 years. I think lining up 10 or 15 of the smartest people in the industry and getting a

360 degree view of what best practices look like throughout the business. soliciting feedback on the role of ownership, right? Like really trying to learn from what the best teams are doing and cribbing ideas from the best and brightest. I mean, I think that's bare minimum. Sorry to interrupt, but why do you think that's never been done

by this group? Because we were talking about that yesterday, and I didn't want to come across as not thinking that Manny Mahalcher could be a good NHL head coach or not thinking that Ryan Johnson could be a good NHL general manager. But it just seems to me that, you know,

whether it's internal or external, the Canucks seem to get locked in on guys before the interview process. I think about, you know, Jim Benning. They locked in on him. Maybe even Mike Gillis before that, you know,

they locked in on him based on some, from recommendations. And then, you know, I don't know if Jim Rutherford was, you know, the NHL maybe said, you should look at Jim Rutherford, but they did. They locked in on him and then they hired him.

What is the issue which is being like, or even hiring a search firm? Because I think the Leafs are going to do that. I think I heard Keith Pelley say, we're going to engage a search firm and the search firm can do all the kind of annoying, dirty business and then give their recommendations on some candidates that should be considered.

Yeah, you know, I don't know precisely, but I suspect it has to do with winning the press conference. I suspect it has to do with like a bone deep personal discomfort with being, you know, when you replace hockey operations leadership, that leaves ownership exposed. That leaves ownership talking for the hockey team at a, you know, decision where there's been a firing. Like the last time Kinnock's ownership gave a press conference, right, they did two in one week. and it was after Jim Benning and Travis Green were fired. And the first one was with Bruce Boudreau because they made sure to hire a coach, even though they didn't have the president of hockey operations in hand.

And later that week, when the president of hockey operations agreed to a deal that was already in the works, but was delayed because of illness, they spoke again. So it's like they literally couldn't even go through, what, five days with like Bradshaw and Stan Smeil as intrams. They weren't even comfortable with that. They had to have the coach. They had to have the answer, right? So I think there's like a probably, probably based on that fact pattern, that fact pattern, that fact pattern. There's probably a, you know, genuine like philosophical and or personal distaste for being in the limelight to that degree and having the pressure as the top organizational decision maker, even though that's always present, you know, squarely

trained on ownership personally. And so I think that's got to be part of it. But, you know, like, I'll just tell you from this is, this is partly why my view of this is so dogmatic. When I was in Florida for that, that two and a half, three seasons, it was pretty messy, right? I mean, I was hired by one group of people. By the time I actually cleared through all my immigration processes and was down there, like Dale, Dale was the chief decision maker again.

And then there was... He took it back. Yeah, and then there was sort of a mini house cleaning. And, you know, by sort of the spring of that of my final season there, like Dale's power was sort of on the wayne, but he managed to get sort of the authority back to make a bunch of big free agent moves. And then, you know, within 12 months after, well, I guess it was more than 12 months, but only because the season was postponed by COVID.

He was replaced, right? Like, you know, and during that time, I would say, in my experience and in my opinion, like, I thought ownership was kind of in the way. Yeah. And then what happened? They conducted a massive search. Like, you know, Mike Gillis was part of that search. I know his name has been in the news. Lawrence Gilman was in that search.

There was a ton of other people. And they ended up hiring Bill Zito. And Bill Zito was a little bit of an off-the-radar pick, right? I mean, a former agent. He'd been an AGM in Columbus. Columbus had had success to some extent in that torts era. I mean, they'd pulled off that massive upset over the Tampa Bay Lightning, but it wasn't like overwhelming, right?

You know, I think Chris Curry was part of that search. I mean, they cast a wide net, and they talked to a lot of people, and Canucks ownership was directly involved, or sorry, Panthers ownership was directly involved in those talks. Bill Zito gets into power, and not only did that search clearly produce the right, for their organization, but you don't hear

anything about Panthers' ownership being in the way. You know, like, I don't just think they found the best candidate. I think they learned a lot. And I think that was really, really good for them. And I think it would benefit Kinex ownership similarly.

We're speaking to Thomas Drans from the Athletic Vancouver here on the Halford-Inbroad Show on SportsNet 650. Do you want to work through your piece that just went up live? I believe 33 minutes ago here, actually a little bit longer than that.

I had to laugh because the headline is, what went wrong for the Vancouver Canucks? And my answer was, where do you want to start? And then you go on to say, yeah, everything, just the whole thing. But he's narrowed it down four paths of potential. Lydon Carlson. You're not wrong, right? It's like bright spots of the connect season.

It's like, Linus Carlson and. Drew O'Connor. I'm ready to put Drew O'Connor is not like a shining light, like a flickering one. But it's a right. The problem is, the problem is. The problem is. Yeah. Thinking about the 11th overall pick last year in a trade for Drew O'Connor and Marcus

Pedersen. So it's like even the Drew O'Connor ones complicated. I take it back. I rescind my earlier remark. Anyway, that's okay. So what did go wrong? I guess the answer really isn't what went wrong. It's coming up with these four paths of potential organizational decisions.

Walk us through this, answer. Well, I just wanted to walk through, you know, thinking it through from an ownership perspective, like what are the four options that the club could consider in the wake of this dismal season, right? And the truth is, I think as you go through, or as I worked through this piece,

I think there are benefits and drawbacks to most of the answers, with one exception. And that's sort of the first path forward would just be like, stability. Like, we're just running it back. Yeah. Same coach, general manager, and president of hockey operations.

And I'm just not sure you can sell that to the marketplace. Like I just don't think, I think there's too many compromised messengers in an era of, or a moment for this franchise where it's pretty important that your non-player personnel folks be able to sell hope. Right. And this is something I brought up on Canucks talk yesterday too, right? There is a chance, a 25-ish percent chance. There's a Vancouver Canucks win the draft lottery. and by mid-May, you've effectively got like a new face of the franchise

with which the fan base can invest and pour their hopes and dreams into, right? And that would be huge. But there's a 75% chance or at least a 55% chance if you don't win either draw where the guy you drafts not going to be on the team next year and the team is going to be bad again next year. And in that situation, it's absolutely vital. that this club be able to have spokespeople that can sell a process, that can sell a vision

in the absence of on-ice results over the short term to this fan base. And I don't know that Fult and Alvin can do that. So I think that's the major drawback with that, in addition to the fact that it would sort of signal that the organization is tolerant of the sorts of results that they got this season, a season that they entered hoping to make the playoffs.

Yeah, no, it's an interesting thing. to bring up because Montreal had it obviously. I remember Marty St. Louis at the beginning of that was pretty pragmatic and was well spoken about what this is going to look like. And if you want to go all the way back, and I know Mike Babcock and his era hasn't aged well, but you remember when he came aboard

in Toronto? Absolutely. What was the kicker line? It was, you have to brace for pain. He was going to be pain, right? And Babcock was a lot of things, but one thing he could do is command a press conference, and he was just in charge. And there was and there was things that he would come out,

and he was going to say regardless of whether or not he got the question. I know that sometimes people think that we're being self-serving media guys when we talk about the need to speak well in public. But it is very important for running a business and very important for selling hope. I think Jim Rutherford does have that ability at times, but he also gets himself in trouble with some of the things that he says.

I think back to Jim Benning when he was running and public speaking wasn't his thing. I remember the first time he spoke, I was like, oh my God, this is the GM. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't, it is important, especially when, like you say, you are in a situation like the Canucks are in.

And you just want the fans to know that someone capable is in charge. Yeah, and I think brother, Ford, excuse me, my voice cracked. I think Rutherford has that weight, but he doesn't do it all the time. Like your head coach, you hear from daily. He's the primary spokesperson for the organization. And, you know, I mean, I don't know if you guys read the comments under Kinnock's post-game presser tweets and on and on.

But, like, I just don't, my senses is that, you know, I don't know that foot as a vessel for selling hope is going to work after how this season is gone. you know, not to mention how he's presented himself. I think the same with Alvin. Rutherford maybe could do it, but you'd have to step up the frequency with which he's heard from. And heard from locally. And so, you know, anyway, I think the... Rutherford has also lost some credibility.

I mean, you know, like, there's a, there's a, there's, even if he were to present the, you know, like you get of like a Winston Churchill speech and be like, yeah, but you still lost Quentin. he is, right? You know, like that sort of thing. Well, it's a results-based business. Yeah. From that perspective, and everyone involved with this season is going to wear it, and that includes current Connects players, right? I mean, I think it's one of the reasons why,

like, rushing to name a captain this summer is so baffling to everybody outside of, like, a select group of national media people who seem to be manufacturing consent for it. No one thinks it's a good idea. Like, you can't find a single person in the industry that thinks That's not absurd. Anyway, the second path is the, you know, you change the coach, but you keep management intact, right? You know, and I mean, I think there's benefits to that. I think there's drawbacks to that too. You know, the truth is that if you just replace the coach, I do think it's spotlights the question of like,

well, didn't you just hire this coach, right? And that's sort of where the discordance really emerges. You know, that said, like, I think there's, I think it's hard to evaluate coaches so much of their job we don't see publicly. But I would say there's a few things that stand out to me in terms of where we should focus our attention in evaluating a coach, especially during a season that's gone this badly. And it's things like, you know, have the young guys developed and has. their deployment made sense, and I don't think the Canucks leap over that bar. Has the club's work right night to night been consistent? Are these players still playing hard for this coach?

And I don't think the Canucks have left over that bar. You know, and then you get to the messaging angle that we already discussed. And so, I mean, I could see this one. You know, the club has a lot of draft picks. Alvin has been putting in the legwork to scout the world and watch all these guys, especially at the top of the draft, live and in person. And, you know, we need that scouting acumen. You know, you sort of sell it.

Like, we all need to be better. But Patrick's the right guy to lead us forward. I mean, I guess I could see it. I guess I could see it. Certainly Alvin's armed himself with the argument, with the argument that, like, I've put in the work to make this pick. Okay. So I guess that's how you land there.

But, you know, I don't know if you buy it or not. I'm just sort of going through sort of the drawbacks and benefits. And then, you know, I think there's the everyone under the president of hockey operations gets replaced path. And, you know, in this article anyway, I do sort of note the Ryan Johnson Malhotra factor here. And, you know, I even get into it what you did, brough, where it's like, oh, so the organization just had the answers on the bench. He just happened to be working for us already. This 32nd place team had the answers. They just weren't listening to them, right?

I do think there's like an element of that that's fair, but also, you know, if the Toronto Maple Leafs were to move on from Craig Brubay and hire some young innovative general manager, and that general manager hired Manny Malhotra, I think I'd be like, man, I think that's a good hire. Yeah. Right? Like, I think Malhotra has the profile of like the Dan Mews, the Spencer Carberry,

you know, the American League coach who in his very first American League season hit it absolutely out of the park, grand slam walk off, right? Won a championship. I mean, there's a lot to like about what we've seen from Malhotra. And I think he's an engaging personality. So I, you know, and by the way, like if Nashville were to hire Ryan Johnson, I'd feel the same. I'd be like, I think that's a sharp hire. So if I would feel that way, if those gentlemen were poached by other organizations, it's hard for me to, lean too heavily into this idea that like the the well the connects just had such a deep bench this organization had all the right people like i do think they're talented guys i do think they have weight and i do think they're good communicators so you know i think that part of it does need to be noted um because if i'd like the hires for other teams well i think i i can't just be cynical right

about the fact that it may not represent a like great enough rate of change or organization accountability here, right? So that's a sort of a tricky one to work through, but it is a potentially elegant solution and sort of casts Jim Rutherford remaining as like, as a mentor to Ryan Johnson, and this is part of a thoughtful succession plan and on and on. And then the fourth plan is the, or the fourth option is the clean house and hopefully conduct a real search plan, you know, which, I mean, may be called for. I think I'm probably poised. to be a Jim Rutherford apologist in the years ahead here, mostly because I don't think we should underrate

the importance of successfully executing the first Canucks tank job in 27 years. You know, the Canucks might wrap up top draft lottery odds tonight with a loss to the avalanche, which I think we expect. And, you know, that's with eight games to go in the season, this organization that, like, is kind of the New York Giants of hockey, The moment they're truly dead and out of it, that's when they tend to win and sort of their draft stock, right? That has not happened at all this year. And I do think we owe management like at least some measure.

Certainly I do, given how insistent I've been that this club needs to get a high draft pick. You know, I think there's an argument to be made that the club showed real wisdom in timing the Hughes trade the way they did and how they did it. So that said, obviously it hasn't gone well. And I've largely disagreed with the club's direction the last three and a half years, four years. But, you know, I do think that Rutherford is still a competent operator for the most part. I think they've run extremely cold in their decision making across the last 12 months. And so, you know, I don't think we'll be surprised to hear more rumors, more contradictory reports from a reliable sources. Like, I think that this club is going to consider everything.

And I think they kind of have to, given how this season has unfolded. So I just wanted to sketch out sort of what four of the potential options could look like and some of the benefits and drawbacks involved in each. Drans, so this is great, bud. Thanks for doing it. Thanks, boys. Cheers. Bye.

I was Dr. from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on the Halford and Brough show on SportsNet 650. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.