Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 4/7/25

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at a busy weekend in sports, including Ovi's record-breaking goal, as well as a pair of Canucks games, plus they talk some more 'Nucks with NHL.com & In Goal Magazine's Kevin Woodley as the club gets set to take on the Dallas Stars tomorrow. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na Oh that's good has it he scores he scores Alex Ovechkin scores 895 there's a new goal scoring champion The craziest son of a bitch you've ever seen The Pacific division leaders from Las Vegas the Golden Knights take it 3 to 2 How you handle adversity builds confidence too If you can handle adversity you should be a confident guy Good morning Vancouver 6 o'clock on a Monday.

Happy Monday everybody. It is Halford, it is Brough, it is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintex Studios, the beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning.

Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000, 3,000 five-star reviews. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. Almost got through it. We are in hour one of the program.

Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you and Step. It was a very eventful weekend in the world of sports. Right from Friday when we got off the air, news was breaking left and right. A bunch of stuff happened over Saturday and Sunday, so we got a lot to get into on the show today. Guest list today begins at 6.30. Greg Wyshinski from ESPN is going to join us. Now you might be asking, on a Monday? Really? Yeah. Greg, on

a Monday, because he was in the building yesterday for Alex Ovechkin's history-making goal. We'll get a firsthand account of the atmosphere and the energy as Ovi became the NHL's all-time leading goalscorer. Greg's going to join us at 6.30 to talk about that. 7.30, first-time guest on the program, longtime Vancouver-based journalist Bob Mackin is going to join us. He covers news and sports and business and politics for The Breaker. We're going to discuss the news that broke late Friday

when the Whitecaps ownership confirmed that they are currently in discussion with the city of Vancouver regarding the construction of a stadium at the PNE fairground site. So big news there, we'll talk to Bob, he wrote about it on Friday, a couple of follow-ups news and notes as well. So we'll talk to Bob at 7.30 about that.

Eight o'clock, Kevin Woodley, NHL.com and Ingole Magazine is going to join the program. Busy weekend for the Vancouver Canucks, a 6-2 win over the Ducks on Saturday, followed by a 3-2 loss last night to the Golden Knights. And we got to see both goalies this weekend, so we can talk to Kevin about that. We will ask him the question though,

and we're going to ask ourselves this question and the listener, what interests you with these last six games of the regular season for the Vancouver Canucks? There's six games left? That's one of the answers. There's that many? Followed by a long awkward pause. I thought they played like five this weekend. And there you go.

So working in reverse on the guest list, eight o'clock Kevin Woodley, 730 Bob Mack and 630 Greg Wyshinski. That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened?

I missed all the action because I was... We know how messy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources and safety training.

Visit them online at bccsa.ca. We will begin with the Washington Capitals and Alexander Ovechkin. Ovi can finally call himself the NHL's all-time leading goalscorer. He set the mark Sunday morning for us Sunday afternoon in New York overtaking Wayne Gretzky's Mark with his 895th goal. We played the John Walton call in the intro. Let's hear the one from TV. Here's Joe Beninati calling

Alexander Ovechkin's historic goal. Strome criss-crossing with Chickren through center. Send in Wilson on the flank, cross-ice Ovechkin, fires! Scores! Chikrin through center. Send in Wilson on the flank. Cross eyes, Ovechkin fires. Score! The chasing days are done! Alex Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL. Washington Capitals will go on to lose that game 4-1.

Yeah, you know what I was thinking is about all the people that gambled on paying big money to see him on various days. Yeah. You know what I was thinking is about all the people that gambled on paying big money to see him on various days. The ticket prices were bid up all the way to the end of the season. And then against Chicago, he scored two goals and tied it and didn't want the empty netter. And then the next game was against the Islanders and tickets were being bid up to like 2000 bucks a pop or whatever. What if you go there and just see like an Islanders caps game?

You know, you're just like, well, this was a pretty good game. That was terrible. Ovi was awful. But so he got it done for those people that paid big money. You know, I had a lot of thoughts when Ovechkin broke the record, but I think most of my thoughts just went back to

earlier in his career, especially when he started and was this incredible superstar that the NHL absolutely loved having and the fact that they could pit essentially for marketing purposes, Alex Ovechkin versus Sidney Crosby, and that just created this, you know, incredible narrative that got ridiculous at some points, how much the league would, would push this narrative. Um, it's not like, you know, they, they hated each other or anything, but like they did have very different personalities and, um, early on, Sid had a lot more team

success and, you know, the, Ovechkin provided throughout his career, some incredible storylines. Yeah. You know, uh, all, whether it's individual accomplishments or team accomplishments when the Caps finally got over the hump and won the Stanley Cup with him in 2018. That was incredible, but you know, it took longer than a lot of people expected to happen with the Washington Cavaliers with Ovi's success and also the team's success. You know, the times that Ovechkin struggled too. I think those are worth looking at.

And maybe there's a connection there that we can work in because what's incredible about Ovechkin is that it looked like he was following the typical aging curve when he started getting into his mid to late twenties. I remember back in 2011, 12, that was the year the Caps fired Bruce Boudreau and replaced him with the more defensive minded Dale Hunter, the Rick Tauke of the times. Seriously, man.

Ovechkin was 25 or 26 that year and finished with 38 goals in 78 games. The year before he'd only had 32 goals in 79 games. So he was still a good goal scorer, but he wasn't close to winning the Rocket Richard Trophy those years. And there are a lot of questions about this guy. People were questioning his fitness. They were questioning his commitment to defense. They were calling him, do you remember the one phrase that got thrown around a lot? One dimensional player. Yeah. And there was a theory that D-men knew how to play him, or at least they knew

better how to play him on one-on-one rushes. Um, and the cap says the team had disappointed in the playoffs and, and that in the shine, now this is, that's a while ago now, so over a decade ago, some people may not remember it or may have kind of intentionally forgot it. The shine was very much off Ovechkin at that time. And the notion that he could one day break Gretzky's record was frankly ridiculous. Then there was the lockout in 2012, 13 that ended up with half the season loss, which was going to

make it even harder to break Gretzky's record. But again, people weren't really talking about it at the time. I remember what people were talking about, and it was about whether the cap should trade Ovechkin. Oh yeah. And things got pretty ugly for Ovechkin during that time. Sid was this hero. He was winning back to back cups, or he was winning cups at the very least with the Pittsburgh Penguins,

and he had just scored, this is 2010, so he was coming off the golden goal for Canada at the Olympics. But there was a resurgence. There was very much a resurgence. The Caps brought in Adam Oates as head coach for a couple of years, then Barry Trotz got the job. And I actually remember interviewing Trotz in 2014 at the draft in Philadelphia. That was the, was that the draft where you nearly got run over by a bus?

No, that was at the winter classic in Philly where I got run over by a bus. Yeah. Okay. That might've been the one where I lost three credit cards. Anyway, it doesn't matter. At any rate. Um, Barry Trotz said, and I remember the scrum, he said, and he was new, new coach, Alex has got a bit too much glide in his game.

When you're standing still, you're really easy to cover. In other words, he's got to get his feet moving. Does that sound familiar? No. A couple of years later, Ovechkin was back to winning goal scoring titles and Trotz was taking a victory lap. And he said, a few years later, I did feel there was too much glide in his game. I thought he could be way more productive if he could get his legs moving to get to

spaces he wasn't getting into last year. Trotz continues. He got married and once he came back from his honeymoon, he recommitted to getting into the shape so he could play that way. There's the answer. Now it's funny because if you want to call this a narrative or whatever, it is fuel for both Pedersen and talk at supporters. Explain Jason.

On the one hand, the Caps didn't trade Ovechkin. They recognized his unique talent and he decided to keep, and they decided to keep working with him. On the other, Ovechkin wasn't beyond criticism. Yeah. He needed to make some changes to his game and look at him now.

So it's funny because you mentioned when we were working at NBC. So I went back and looked through the archives of our old site, Pro Hockey Talk, and there are articles, blog posts, whatever you want to call them, six years apart talking about Ovechkin trade rumors. Do they need to trade Ovechkin?

Like we're talking 2011, which was one of their, uh, Stanley Cup playoff failings all the way up to 2017. One of those articles was written by a young handsome upstart journalist named Jason Brough back in 2011. You wrote one and said, yep, this is the headline. Yep, we've reached the point where people are talking about trading Ovechkin. And sort of being, I mean we were boots on the ground for a very very large swath of the Crosby versus Ovechkin era which I mean it's still going on but it's the Zenith and the height of it was when we it was the early 2010s like in that that part of the decade where Crosby was way out in front

Let's just call it what it is. Yeah, Crosby was way out in front when they were in their 20s. The rivalry was always there, but it was always understood that Crosby had a leg up in the rivalry. He won the Stanley Cup. He'd won internationally, right? He had had all the success. Obie had individual success in his 20s. He won three heart trophies. But like you mentioned, it took him all the way until he was 33 years old to win a cup. And in a very weird way, the way that Crosby dominated the rivalry in their 20s, you could make the argument that Ovechkin's kind of roared back in his 30s. I mean, if you want to talk about trade rumblings, who's the guy that's got his name more prevalent

in trade talks now for entirely different reasons and under entirely different circumstances? We talk more about a potential Sydney Crosby trade in the modern times than we ever would about Ovechkin. But back in the day, trading Ovechkin was a very real and a very repetitive conversation that happened time and time again, first with his, when his on ice production plummeted and especially during the Dale Hunter era.

And then later when the caps kept failing in the playoffs, it always fell on Ovi. And that lasted right up until he won the cup Hunter era. And then later when the caps kept failing in the playoffs, it always fell on Ovi. And that lasted right up until he won the cup in 2018. Now for him to get here, and it's wild when you look at the numbers and the way that he's done it. And he's the fourth leading goal scorer in the NHL this year.

Joe the Sparky Texan. But Jason, Ovechkin still doesn't move his feet. Um, what Trotz was talking about with Ovechkin was a little bit different than. It was also 11 years ago. Well, yeah. When, no, but. I know what you're saying. I know.

But what Trotz was talking about with Ovechkin was more on the back check. And he kind of extrapolated with, uh, or he expanded on, on what he was saying when he said he has too much glide in his game. And it was more that Ovi was gliding on the back check. And it wasn't necessarily gliding to put back pressure on the puck carrier or whatever. It was just like he wasn't getting back in time enough to get the breakup passes from his demon, essentially. If the puck turned over, he was still gliding back. I don't think we should-

I don't think that's the point, though. I don't think we should dive too big into the comparisons and all that sort of thing. I just wanted to throw out the narrative of Ovechkin as kind of a slight comparison to the Pedersen thing. I wouldn't mind continuing though. There are gonna be differences in their stories because they're different people, but I do think it's worthwhile to paint a little picture for people that maybe don't remember,

maybe they're a little younger and they don't remember Ovechkin's, the start of his career, where he could do no wrong, but then the time where he very much struggled yeah, and the team struggled and he had a lot of critics and You know there were people saying he's got to do this No, he's got to do that and then there were people saying you shouldn't criticize him at all He's Alex Ovechkin How many people were out there like saying like just let the guy do whatever he wants

You know, he's Ovi. He's a natural goal scorer. Don't try and coach him. Like there were people that said that Yeah, and it kind of reminded me of the of what Rick Taukett said when he said, you know, we're trying to reprogram Pedersen's brain go north south and people like that, you know, don't do that. Like for me, it's just like, there's a bit of both. Like, yeah, you've got to allow these unique players, these incredibly talented players to show off their talent, but nobody's beyond criticism. Right. And Barry Trotz and Alex Ovechkin won a cup together.

Well, I mean, you want to talk, the beyond criticism thing I think is really important in all this because you want to talk, the, the beyond criticism thing, I think is really important in all of this because you got to remember last year, Alex Ovechkin faced a pretty decent share of criticism. I mean, when we talked to Tarik El-Bashir and a handful of other reporters that were covering the team, they said like Spencer Carvery was pretty vocal about Ovi not being in good enough shape last season, right? It's been an issue with him his whole career. Let's be honest, the guy has played at like 265 pounds.

And frankly, there are some times you looked at him and I'm like, I think that, I think he's more. The point I'm trying to make is that when you talk about a guy that's not beyond criticism, last year at age 38, you would have thought that in addition to everything else that you put out there, there would have been an addendum being like, wow, he's in the twilight of his career

and he's really just trying to get this record and then maybe he'll dance off into the sunset. I don't think we understand how good of a year he's having this year. He has 42 goals in 61 games. He answered the call of his head coach last year at a time in his career where he could have said, you know what, I'm going to kick back. I'm going to score 20 on the power play for the

next couple of years. I'm going to break this record. Don't forget. He broke his leg this year. Yeah. Like it's, you know, so credible when you talk about a guy that has answered the call from his coaches and done so in a way where it wasn't polarizing or he didn't necessarily push back. Like he took the coaching of Barry Trotz and he took what Spencer Carberry had to say. Like that's the mark of a true greatness is when you're not satisfied with what you've done and you're still willing to push. Where there's almost really no reason to. You're Alex Ovechkin.

You're going to go down as one of the greatest players of all time and he's still pushing himself like that. You know what's always struck me about Ovi's game? His enthusiasm for it. Yeah. Man, he loves being out there on the ice. He loves scoring goals. And it looks like he's a pretty popular teammate.

And again, let's get beyond the comparisons between Ovechkin and Pedersen. I just thought it was interesting because I was thinking back a lot as he broke that record. I was like, I can't believe he did that. I remember having arguments with people like there's no way he's going to do that. No chance. Take the L on that one. A big L, but I'm happy to do it because it was pretty cool to see him break that record.

Again, like I, you know, 10 years ago, it hasn't been smooth sailing for Ovechkin. And he's brought so much to the game. And I know he's got his critics for off-ice reasons, but on the ice, he has brought so much enthusiasm and joy to the game. The man loves to score goals and he's just got that big personality. He can still barely speak English, but he's got that great big personality.

If you think about what he's meant to not only the NHL but like one franchise. If you think of the Washington Capitals, that's Ovechkin. That's what you think of. You think of Ovi and I know they've had some great players in the past. Nick Baxter, who was his linemate for many years. And even before Ovi, the one thing I always remembered about the Washington Capitals in the 80s is they would always make the playoffs. And Mike Gartner would always score 30 goals.

Rod Langway. You know? The Minister of Defense. Peter Bondra. They had some really good players. They had some really good players. I mean, they had Jagger for a bit. Peter Bondra with the breathe right strip. Classic. Yeah. But there's all those guys.

Can't beat that swing. There's all those guys. And then there's Ovechkin at a whole different echelon. Before OV, the Washington Capitals as a franchise in DC were struggling big time. They went to the Stanley Cup finals somehow against Detroit. And I remember that arena was half filled with Red Wings fans for the Stanley Cup final. Like it just really wasn't all that big a deal in Washington. And then OV came and frankly, the Capitals have

surpassed some teams in DC. Yep. Like I think the Capitals are more popular than the Wizards. Yeah. We used to have that conversation too when we were at NBC because you'd cover it from an American perspective and they were always in the shadow of the football team, commanders, Redskins, whatever they were at the time. I forget when the name change happened.

Pretty much, you know, we're second fiddle to a lot of college sports because it was a big college basketball town. Obviously second fiddle to the Wizards at that point. Are they bigger than the Nationals? And then the Nationals were sort of this transplant team. They had a rich history of baseball. Nice stadium. Yeah, but it was. It's okay. Yeah, but it was also just sort of, it was just sort of a time where Ovechkin became

on par with whoever the best player for the commanders would have been at that time. And they were a central focus for like Sports Talk Radio and the sports pages, because they were permanently in the playoffs. And it did have a compelling narrative from a journalistic perspective, because they always fell short with this amazing player in the lineup.

So it was a constant source of storylines and narratives and critiques a lot of the time too. You know, it's funny you were mentioning that you, you never thought he would break the record. Do we have the audio here? This is a very old clip of Alexander of Etchkin himself suggesting that it would be dang near impossible to ever beat Wayne Gretzky's mark, which he did yesterday. How long ago is this from laddie? Do we know the date of this one?

It might have been his rookie season. Yeah. It's very, very early on in his career. Here's Alexander of Etchkin from many moons ago talking about how impossible it would be to break Wayne Gretzky's goal scoring record. The NHL record for goals is 894. Wayne Gretzky. Do you ever think about that being number one ever? I don't think somebody will beat this record. In this hockey right now, in this league, I think it's impossible. Impossible to catch gradski?

It's impossible. You can challenge it. You might be able to do it. I have to have six seasons for 50 goals. I don't know if I'm going to be able to skate in six seasons. So like, he had that personality. He had that sense of humor way back then. And laddie, I mean, there are two big factors here.

Number one, OV being a force. And the number two is that there's more goals scored in the NHL now. percentage at the peak of goaltending excellence in 2014-15 and 2015-16 was 915. That was league average save percentage 915. It's gone all the way down to 900. That is a huge factor in this Ovechkin story. And it's not taking anything away from Ovechkin because you look at the goaltending averages when Gretzky was putting up like 92 goals a year and league average was 875. Yeah.

So the league changes in the goal scoring, whatever the reason is, technology, better shooters, worse goalies, I don't know what it is, but the save percentage has fallen significantly. And Ovi's talking about, you know, in that clip, he's like, in this league, in this hockey, not breaking Gretzky's record. No. The fact that the save percentages have fallen this much since in the last decade, without that,

Ovi's not breaking this record. And I think that's why back in the day, I was so convinced, like there's no way that this is going to happen. No chance it's going to happen. There's a chance he could have broken it earlier, you guys. Like I want to say shame on everyone involved in

the two lockouts in Ovi's career, because we would have been talking about this breaking the Gresky thing two years ago. And right now we'd be talking about him closing in on 1000 goals. He could have got there. I do wonder if he's going to. He could have got there with two more, or a season and a half under his belt. I wonder if he's going to get to 1000 goals. He could have got there. I do wonder if he's gonna- He could have got there with two more,

or a season and a half under his belt. I wonder if he's gonna get to 1000 still. I really- You think he's gonna keep playing that long? I don't know. Why would you stop playing right now? He could be there right now though. Like that is so infuriating.

I mean Greg. We could be talking about a player with 1000 goals right now, but the lockouts took that away from us. Yeah. Kevin in Port Moody texts in, "'It must hurt you deeply, Bruv. "'The amount of slander and negative criticism criticism of Ovi from you was way overboard.

Ovi has surpassed every expectation and all along the way you dogged him every time. Kevin was following your career. Kevin, first of all, that's kind of psycho stuff. But second of all, did you just... Well I did criticize him. I did criticize him. When Barry Trotz got the job, I said, Ovi's not beyond criticism. He needs to make some changes.

And Kevin, guess what? He did. He did. He worked with the coaching staff. He committed himself to getting into better shape and look at him now. Slightly better shape. Like it's, like it's, it's kind of like.

Moderately better shape. Did I criticize him back then? Yeah. And then he made some changes. He took some accountability for himself and look at him now. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Benchken 895 career goals!

7.03 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Who's that? That would have been Islanders Radio, right? We've had the guy on the show before. What's his name? I'm forgetting this now. Sounded like a Muppet. What does that say? It did. Well it did.

Like you know when Kermit's like, yeah, I know who the Muppets are pal. I know but Kermit specifically, you know. His voice got high pitched. He surpasses his record. Alexander Ovechkin, 895 career goals. Hey, piggy. He is never coming back on the show again. His arms waving, frailing.

Greg Pickert, I think his name is. Well, we'll never have him on our show again. I hate doing this now, but if you Google it, Islanders Radio PXP, the third result that comes up is a subreddit. The Islanders Radio PXP the third result that comes up is a subreddit The Islanders radio PXP guy sounds like Mickey Mouse. I don't know it's out there Mickey Mouse. Yeah, I think he's more of a Kermit. Anyway, great call. They have similarities All right, you are listening to the Halford and Brough show for some reason on Sportsnet 650.

Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five star reviews. Visit sans-trustee.com. I will tell you right now that I am going to mangle that read because I am not going to be able to do dash trustee. I'm going totrustee.com. I will tell you right now that I am going to mangle that read because I am not going to be able to do dash trustee. I'm going to say dash trustee repeatedly. But it's not.

Sean Connery. Sean Connery. Yeah. But it's not. It's dash trustee. Sean-trustee. Don't confuse the issue.com. We are in hour two of the program. Hour two is brought to you by Jason Hominock at jason.mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around

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That's not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. Hey, not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. Hey, Dost, our sponsor. It was bad. Well, it was a nice sponsor we had once. Vancouver Canucks played twice this weekend, by the way.

Didn't talk about it in the first hour of the program. Gonna do it now, though. Saturday, definitely the better of the two days for the Vancouver Canucks, a 6-2 victory over the Anaheim Ducks, in which the Vancouver Canucks set a franchise record for the fastest five goals at any point in a game. Four minutes and 30 seconds to turn a what was a one-nothing lead for the Anaheim Ducks into a 5-1 advantage for the Vancouver Canucks. It was also the first goal for D. Petey in that five goal barrage. And then yesterday, the Canucks kind of came crashing back

down to earth with a 3-2 loss to the Vegas Golden Knights, a game in which it actually was probably closer on the scoreboard than it was in reality, or at the very least on the shot clock and shot counter. Canucks marching closer and closer to being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. Yesterday put them one step closer, a 3-2 loss to Vegas on Sunday night at Rogers Arena. I have a request for the Canucks. Yeah. Just

give Quinn Hughes some less ice time. Yeah we don't need to do this anymore. Quinn Hughes played almost 27 minutes last night. By the way in this extended ice time for a very clearly not 100% Quinn Hughes. Yeah. It hurts me as a, you know, aficionado of the plus minus. He was minus three last night. Quinn Hughes is now a, what do you call it when a player is zero and plus minus? Even. Even?

Yeah, yeah. He's an even player. He's not a plus player. He's not a minus player. He's an even player now. He's zero. He's a par. I don't like it.

It's not befitting of a reigning Norris trophy winner. Why did he play 22 minutes and 36 seconds against Anaheim when the Canucks were up 5-1 in the first period? That's a great question, Jason. What's going on? I know this isn't a big deal, but I'm trying to find things to be interested in about these.

I'm trying to find things to complain about. Final few games I didn't watch on Saturday. I looked at my phone and I was like, oh, good for them. They scored some goals. Uh, watched last night, kinda, but it was out of the corner of my eye. I was mostly focusing on prepping for other stuff during the show and, and you know, they lost with

a few minutes left and I was like, well, like it, you the Coles though, it's version of yesterday, if you like. No, I don't really want. I know they beat the Ducks and they lost to Vegas and I'm kind of with, I know Yannick Hansen was on the show last week and he said, or on the station last week, and he said, you don't learn anything as an organization from these meaningless games. So, you know, whether, you know, is Ahtu Rautu playing some good hockey? Yeah. Does he still have some things to work on defensively? Yeah. We saw that, I guess, in the Vegas game. I have liked what some of these young guys have brought, but it was funny. I texted Murph last night during the intermissions.

I was like, I'm getting Benning era vibes from these segments. And I kind of joked like, and I put in quotation marks, you know, can Marcus Grandlin build on this season? Yeah. You know, like it's kind of like, it's like that type of question time where. What did we like from Griffin Molino tonight? Yeah, right. You know, that, that sort of thing. And, you know, look, they're going to have these

conversations because you got to and you got to fill it with something. But for me, like my focus on the Canucks, the actual games, I'm very much in my head just to like get to the after season press conferences and let's hear what you guys are saying. very much in my head just to like get to the after season press conferences and let's hear what you guys are saying. And, but I really do think like, stop playing

Quinn Hughes so much. No, I'm with you on that. You know, like I know they will probably say, they'll probably say until we are officially eliminated, we're going to be trying to win these games and, you know, the coaching staff can come out and say, you know, I'm going to try and find out who's 100% in or who's 100% not. I was like, that's cool for you, but whatever, you know, like it doesn't, it doesn't really hold my, my interest.

Yeah, I, part of this is like, I thought we were, we were past this as a, as a people in this society, the, the meaningless games down the stretch. I thought that we were, we had moved past this and last year brought so much hope and optimism that brighter days were ahead. And now we are sort of back in a Benning era-esque funk at the end of the season where, I mean, I listened to Rick Tuckett's post-game media availability

after the 3-2 loss to Vegas. And he was talking about the important reps that Victor Mancini and DPT were getting young players getting to cut their teeth at the NHL level. And I was like, we're back here again. We're doing this after a year in which you guys were one win away from going to the Western conference finals.

We're now talking about young guys getting their reps and learning their trade, which I don't love. I'm with you. I would love for this to be over and for them to get to the off season, which Also has similar vibes to previous lost seasons The Canucks once again fell short of their goals there was way too much losing for everybody's liking and

most worrisome as other Offseasons of years past where they missed the playoffs There's a ton of uncertainty about the future and what that future is going to look like. So there are going to be some residual tremors, like fear, like, ah, this is all too familiar. It feels too familiar. And that's exactly the position that the franchise is in, going into a very profound,

and again, very uncertain off season. Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and Ingole Magazine joins us now on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Kev? Not much boys. How are we this morning? I heard you spent a lot of time talking about Obie. So I got a question because I know that the fans are

really happy you haven't talked about the Kinnock 's home warning. Yeah, go. So has anybody talked about how his shot actually curbs? What? We've talked about this before. Seriously, you guys spent a full hour and you didn't talk about the reason goalies can't figure

it out when they all know it's coming. Enlighten us, Kevin. Is he throwing junk? He actually is. Yeah. So we've all seen the hook and as Devin Dubnik once told me, cause he has a sign stick, this thing, it's a banana. And then the toe on it is like straight 90

degree toe pick. Like it's crazy. And so as a goalie, you come across, you know, it's coming and you're trying to read the release but it will actually change what type of shot it is depending on where he gets it on that wicked curve and if he gets it on the toe it will actually and can actually curve and if you're moving to your right you think you've got it covered on the glove side it's actually like a breaking ball that'll go around the glove and in.

And on your blocker side, you think it's coming right at you, but it will curve down and away from you. And the spin and the curve on it, which is combined with the velocity when he gets all of it, it's why it goes through so many guys. So a lot of them have talked about, you know, he never misses the net. That's one of the big things lesson to be learned there for a certain number 40 who likes one timers on this team, like, oh, he always makes a goal, he make a

save, like he almost never misses the net. But yeah, because of that curve, and I've had like seven or eight guys, guys like Ryan Miller that faced him a ton in their career, Braden Hopel, you saw him in practice. They're like, you don't know whether it's going to be, you know, Braden Hopel, you saw him in practice. They're like, you don't know whether it's gonna be 100 miles an hour and he won the hardest shot contest one year at 101. 100 miles an hour or the 70 mile an hour curve

and you can't tell, there's no way to read what part of the blade it's gonna come off. Same with the slinging wrist shot he scores. Where he releases it, depending on the curve, will change the effect of the shot and that's what makes it so hard for goalies to read, especially on the one tee, even though they all know what's coming. Um, what is the most incredible thing about Ovechkin breaking the record?

And you know, 10 years ago when Leakes league average save percentage was 915, did you ever think he had a chance to do it? Oh, that's a good question. I don't think I thought about it because it seemed so far-fetched just because of the age thing, right? To me the most incredible thing is that, was he 40 this year and he scored 40 goals

and he missed like 16 with a broken leg. So it's like the durability and the fact he's still scoring at this rate. He's finding different ways to score at different times but the anchor to it all is, as I said, a shot that doesn't change, it doesn't change in its unpredictability. And as a couple of guys told me,

it is the most unique shot in the game that they've ever seen, probably in the history of the game. And I think that's part of what's allowed him to have that consistency to still score all these years later. Let's talk about the Vancouver Canucks. We've been throwing this question out to the listeners. What is the thing that you're watching as the Canucks finish off the regular season. It's probably not the standings anymore. Is there anything compelling down the stretch or are these just meaningless games and

we should take them as such? No, I mean you got a bunch of young players in the lineup that you figure are going to be a big part of this team or have a chance to be a big part of this team moving forward. Although the Karamakis not in night, you know, that upset some people. Um, but I think he probably is going to need some more time in the American league anyways. Um, so you look for how they perform. Uh, we see, you know, last night, the prime example, uh, Ratu scores. And then it looks like he's a little slow in the back check on the winning goal.

Right? Like, can you look for the positives and then can you live with the negatives that inevitably come with young players learning the game at this level? And you know, you're gonna need your goal tend, that's the other thing, like, if this is the way it looks moving forward, you're gonna need goalies to erase a lot of those mistakes.

And if you're looking for positives, I thought Kevin Lankin was definitely one of them last night. That looked more like the guy we saw early in the season It's been a tougher goal for him You know obviously and as well as the adjusted numbers since the Four Nations and that's understandable given This is the most he's ever played and a lot of this is new and again There's not a lot of margin for error unless they can figure out how to to sort of

You know add on some offense to this team next year. It kind of looks like that may be an issue scoring goals and giving your goalie some margin for error. It's a really tough way to play. And that's something they're going to have to figure out as well. So Demko's return to form outside of the Seattle game has been a real positive. Seeing Kevin Lankin and play like he did early in the season to me is a real positive. We know how good he can be. It's just the reality is with the workload and with the four nations and coming off it, you know, the numbers just fell off a cliff. So that's a positive. And then as I, like you

said, it's, you know, not all in the positive directions, but you're looking like, hey, like what does the Pettersson-Heronik pairing look like as they move Mancini up to play with Myers out to play with Quinn Hughes the last couple of games? Are they better splitting Hughes and Heronik? And honestly, I'm not, there's been times where I think we've, we've seen positives. But also, you know, in terms of the goals they've been on for against, and it's not always them, sometimes it's forwards and back checks and things like that. But the totals are really high for Phil Horonick since the Four Nations break. I think he may be on for more goals against than any other

Canucks defenseman since then. So I'd have to look that up. But it just you're looking for those things. You're looking for things that could move into next season. And you have to look at them from both lenses, positive and negative. But chance to experiment, chance to try some things, chance for younger players to get their feet wet and potentially show they belong. Does bringing back Demko for next season and having a Demko, Lankin and Tandem, is that

possibly the Connex best chance to get back to the playoffs? Yeah, having a league goal-turning is going to be important. When you take a look at around the league, what the options are going to be like in free agency, I think that's your easiest path to it. We've seen signs here before and after, before and after the six week absence because of the groin injury, we've seen signs of the old Thaddeus Demko, the Vezna trophy level Thaddeus Demko,

and getting him back combined with early season Lankanen, which was, you know, for the first month and a half played at a Vezna trophy level. That's a pretty good recipe, especially since the first guy hasn't made it through a full season healthy in his career. So games played is obviously important, not getting them up too high. And we saw what happened when Lakin has games played got up. Again, that's a big adjustment for him. He's never done it before. And there's going to

be a learning curve there. And I think he'll be better and more prepared for it next season to sort of maintain that early season level. And yet having both prevents you from having to push those boundaries, assuming you can keep both healthy. So I do think it is their best chance to have elite goaltending every night, especially if they're going to, you know, sort of tag on some young defenders on the back end and, and, and make some of these stays, you know, I don't, I don't know that'll be Mancini, but has, has Elias Patterson done enough to, to, to be a part of this next season?

Um, obviously Tom Villander is probably going to get a chance, you know, late this year, maybe to get a couple of games. We'll probably be in the picture next year. Um, you're going to need really good goaltending behind that and that's your best chance of getting it. What it looks like beyond that with Demko's expiring contract, I can't tell you, but both in terms of their chance to succeed next year and frankly, his trade value, if indeed that is the end game, I would suggest they both improve with both of them going at the start of next season here. Well, you beat me to my follow-up question. What do you think, just to throw it out

there, what do you think Demko's trade value would be this off season? It's a really good I don't have the answer because I don't know how other teams view the obvious upside that we've seen against the risk of injury. And normally my default would be there's never trade value for goaltenders because really there isn't, right? Like they're just, they're hard to predict they're kind of a depreciated asset when it comes to trades and usually you can just have your pick of them on July 1st as the entire league plays its annual game of goalie musical chairs and the goalies are usually under pressure because as we saw with a guy like

Lankett in last summer once the music music stops, if all the chairs are full, you're kind of in a bad spot. This off season might be a little different, like everybody re-opped. And so, you know, a lot of the guys that were supposed to make it to unrestricted free agency didn't, and now you've got a list that's like highlighted by Jake Allen and Freddie Anderson. And Freddie Anderson's still capable of elite numbers, but again, another guy that has issues in terms of staying healthy and with games played so I you know is there a team out there and I haven't looked around so like I'm not sure I can do this on top of my head that like absolutely needs a bonafide number one and they're willing to take a roll of the dice that Demko can be it or

they feel they have a 1B in place that would allow them to limit their games and you know give him a better chance of getting through a season because again all these injuries started when he played down a 65 game pace for like six weeks last year everything was fine up until then so it's all about keeping the minutes reasonable I don't know if there's that team out there because with everybody re-upping to take out the UFA class it means a lot of teams settled their goaltending. They saw what the market looked like and they decided they didn't want any part of it. Better the devil you know. So that's it's a good question. My

hunch is the value of goaltending is typically low. Would the Canucks trade him to a team like the Edmonton Oilers who are a group that needs a number one? I don't know what that looks like. I would suspect though that given the history injury wise, it might not be as high as the value you get from a full season of him and Lankton as a tandem. You keep beating me to my next question because I was going to ask you, is Edmonton's goal-tending situation the one situation to watch in this postseason? Just scanning all the playoff teams in my head as we go around, for sure. Yeah, I do think it's

going to be really interesting there. And again, it's not hindsight, I get to say it because I said it on the air on my weekly hit in Edmonton around July 1st. Like that was a team that I thought Kevin Liken would have been a really good fit on and that they should have maybe made the investment in giving him one of those spots before the musical chair stopped because it's nothing against Calvin Pickard who they loved there. Like teammates love him, he fit in the room, he won them some big games and he has won them some big games, but he's also a guy that probably could

have gone on waivers and gotten to the American Hockey League again for him and been a number three in a call up option. And so Stuart Skinner, this year has not been as good as last year. Last year he progressed steadily. This year it's been tough for him to get any momentum going. And now here we are a few weeks away from the playoffs and he's out with a head injury. Which is never ideal when your job is to track a puck around the zone with 10 people flying everywhere. Not ideal to have neck and head injuries. So yes, the short answer is yes. We've seen that what they have is capable of getting them within a game of a Stanley

Cup Championship. But what they got out of Skinner last year, he hasn't quite gotten there this year. They haven't defended as well, especially off the rush, which is kind of a statistical bugaboo for him. You know, skating, lateral skating is not the strength of his game. He's a spot to spot goalie when he's at his best. And so that's definitely worth watching in the playoffs. And then frankly, beyond, you know, to sort of, I guess, because he got there last year, it was easy to say we have everything we need. But I thought they were a team that

could have used an upgrade alongside Stewart Skinner, both from a risk mitigation standpoint, but also just like you've got a cup contender. And the idea, whether it's even if you couldn't foresee him struggling, the possibility even just of an injury to not have a security blanket with maybe more upside, to me seems like a mistake. And yet, if they defend as well as they did last year, and we've seen glimpses of it, and they defend as well as they did in the playoffs,

maybe they can get to a cup final again with Pickard or Stuart Skinner. What do you expect from the Maple Leafs in goal when the playoffs come? I guess they're still at least publicly toying with the idea of a rotation. I can't imagine that they'll do it, but they have played well in Stolar's pretty,

not evenly, Stolar's gotten more, but it's been a pretty healthy split there. And it's also kind of scary to think that Leafs could be going into the playoffs with actually pretty good goaltending, which is a very scary thing. I just want to see them progress. But that's interesting because I've heard and

seen reference to Craig Borubei saying he just wants one guy. Yeah. Right? And but why have they had good goaltending this year? Because it's been balanced. Because they had two.

Yeah. Right? And I get it. I get why everybody just wants to pick one. If it works the other way, you know, like look at look at the remember Boston with their dream season You know like where they set all the records and then lost in the first round Yeah well

They set all the records going back and forth between two guys and then in the playoffs they felt they needed just one and So they stuck with him even though he was not healthy 100% They stuck with him right till the end and then they changed at the end. So what did that do? And beyond costing you the series potentially, not only did you go away from what worked, but by the time you went back to it, the other guy had sat for two weeks. Yeah.

So it wasn't part of a rotation. Here's one for you. Let me give you a list of the top six goalies since the Four Nations break by adjusted save percentage. So in other words, relative to shot environment on a shot by shot basis, who've been the best goalies in the league. Here are the names.

Anton Forsberg, Casey De Smith, Philip Gruber, Scott Wedgwood, James Reimer, and Freddie Anderson. There's your top six. What do they all have in common? Their second string guys. They have not played hardly at all this season. Some because of injury like Anderson. When the best guys in the league for the final, like we're now at April 7th, so this is like

month and a half of this since the Four Nations. When the best guy's in the league, like then you get into the Kemper, who by the way has really been overlooked for how good he's been this season because everyone assumes the Kings are a wagon defensively and they're good, but they're not as good

as they have been in the past. He's been excellent. But you get into the Kemper, Vasilevsky, Gustafsson and Wolf after that. But even then you're sprinkled in with some, But you get into the Kemper Vasilevsky, Gustafsson and Wolf after that. But even then there you're sprinkled in with some, you know, Eustace Ananen's. If the guys that haven't played much are playing the best down the stretch,

what does that tell you about the value to go back to the Leafs of we need one guy? Yeah. So I don't understand it from a, I don't want to get fired as a coach by making the wrong goalie decision at the wrong time. You know, I want to provide boulders and board material. Hey, this guy's one, two straight, but we're not playing him in game three and the other team storms back. I get all that, but nobody's getting through the year with one guy. So what makes you think you're getting through two months of games every second night with one guy? And so even if you're not gonna go with a straight rotation, I would suggest if that has been part of your MO all season,

you better think about mixing the other guy in at least one of every four, if not one of every three, especially if you've had them all year. And teams like Washington and teams like Toronto, again, I know people like oh it doesn't work, well actually I'd point to Boston and say doing it all year and then not doing it in the playoffs doesn't work either. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.