Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 5/12/25

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at a busy weekend in sports, they talk a wild few days of NHL playoff action, plus they chat the latest around the 'Nucks with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na Carlson will center and it comes in front of the net! Smith! Scored, but the period was over. I don't think it was. I think it was. I don't think it was. This is my nightmare! Bennett with Bernagy.

Bennett drags it, moves it, he scores! What a goal! Sam Bennett! Good morning, Vancouver. It's six o'clock on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody, it is Halford and his brofitties, Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studios in beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you.

Good morning. Ladi, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and brofitties, the morning is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver.

We are in hour one of the program, hour uno. Hour one is brought to you by Sands & Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help. With over 3,000 five-star reviews, visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. We got a big show ahead on a Monday, big guest list,

lots to get into from a crazy weekend in sports guest list. Today begins at six 30. Greg Waszynski, our NHL insider from ESPN is going to join. We will look back on the aforementioned wild weekend with Greg. He was in Dallas for that controversial Stars-Jets game yesterday. We can talk about that with Greg. We can also look ahead to tonight's action. Carolina, Washington, game four of their series. Canes hold a 2-1 lead there.

Also, Edmonton in Vegas tonight, game four as well. Edmonton holding a 2-1 series there, or series lead there. Lots of drama in that series as well. Seven o'clock, down goes Brown, better known as Sean McIndew from The Athletic is gonna join us. So when we did our last show, and I wasn't here for it,

but when we did our last show, the Leafs had a two-nothing lead in their series against the Florida Panthers. What happened? They even had two two- two goal leads in game three Greg And now they're tied to two and it's best of three so we'll talk to you Down goes brown about how he's feeling about all this at seven o'clock asked him about where is Austin Matthews? He's probably feeling great. Where's Austin Matthews feeling great?

We'll talk to Sean about that at 7 7 30 Brandon Astle is gonna join the program The play-by-play voice of the Abbotsford Canucks for the first time in franchise history. Abbey is off to the third round of the Calder Cup playoffs after beating the hated Coachella Valley Firebirds. Artie Silov is the hero of that series, was fantastic over the final two games. They will now take on the Colorado Eagles featuring former Canucks legend Jason Megna. Yeah, he's back. Yep. You know who else the Colorado Eagles, featuring former Canucks legend, Jason Megna. Yeah, he's back. Yep. You know who else the Colorado Eagles employ?

Who? My favorite player, Ivan Ivan. Oh, I love that guy. He's the best. His middle name is also Ivan. The man's so nice, they named him thrice. Are they the hated Colorado Eagles? Like they were the hated Coachella Valley Fireplace?

No, no. They were somewhat disliked. Yeah. Until the series gets underway. At eight o'clock, the Drancers, speaking of hated. Yeah, until the series gets underway at eight o'clock the drancer speaking I hated the drancers gonna join us at eight o'clock Offseason Canucks talk with the drancer. What have the Canucks learned? What should the Canucks have learned? What can the Canucks learn from the playoffs so far? We'll talk to drance about that at eight o'clock. We do have a

ticket giveaway Every single day this week Jason. We're giving away a pair of tickets every day to see The Who. Who? The Who. What? The Who. The what?

The Who, the band. Who's on first? It's just The Who. Okay. Every day this week, they're gonna be at Rogers Arena September 23rd. At 8.15 this morning, we're gonna do caller number five. Caller number five at 8.15 this morning.

The phone number 604-280-0650, that number again, 604-280-0650. Tickets go on sale this Friday, so in the lead up to Friday we're going to give away a pair of tickets every day this week to see the Who. Very cool, that'll be coming through Vancouver on September 23rd. We've got so much to get into,

I'm not going to run through the guest list in reverse. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools Resources and safety training visit them online at bccsa.ca We're gonna begin with the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Florida Panthers I know they played on Friday But we got a review last night's game because it was the more pressing important of the two Sergei Barofsky

23 saves for the shutout. The Florida Panthers win two nothing against the Toronto Maple Leafs on Sunday and even up the series at two two, it is now a best of three between the Panthers and the Leafs. Yeah. Toronto was a goal away from making it a three nothing series lead when game three went to overtime and then their old friend, Brad Marchand

banked a lucky one in. And now it's 2-2 headed back to Toronto. I have a question. Do they keep stats for own goals? Because this, they don't, but this. Hold on. This playoffs must have a record number of own goals. I'm just thinking about. The weekend.

Yeah. All the goals that have, you know, I mean, one win in off Hellebuck, there was a couple, one in the Toronto series and one in the Winnipeg series that banked in off a defenseman's skate. Like they just threw it out in front. More than Riley for the Leafs. Yep.

And you mentioned the Hella Watt goal already. Yeah. And you haven't even mentioned the big one of the weekend. Right. Leon Dreisaitl. Leon Dreisaitl. Yeah. I mean, it is, it is, it is just a crazy number of weird goals and a lot of them

have been real turning points. Um, Austin Matthews though, he's not even putting pucks in his own net. Not scoring in any net. Um, will he be though, he's not even putting pucks in his own net. Not scoring in any net. Um, will he be showing up at some point? He's going to have all the focus on him in game five because all the stats are out there. Like he, he can't score once you get past the first round. I, does he ever have a second, second round goal?

I mean, the Leafs haven't exactly made a habit of getting to the second round. Right. He hasn't had a ton of opportunities to do so. I mean, he, I know he's getting some shots away, but none of them are hitting the net. That's a problem. Um, but I just don't, like I see Nylander out there

and I see Marner out there and I see them, you know, being active out there, you know, they're noticeable. Matthews must be hurt. Like he can't be a hundred percent. I know he's kind of battled injuries all season. He scored 69 goals, not this past season, but the season before, and he just has not been himself all season really.

So I don't want to make, I'm going to say this right away. I don't want to make everything about Leah's Pedersen and I don't want to make this about Pedersen. But it's hard not to look at the similarities between the narratives right now. So after the game yesterday, I went and I listened to a bit of Toronto radio and I watched clips of Leafs talk with our boy boys, JD Bunkus and Sam McKee and Justin Bourne. And I watched Kippers hit on sports.

I was doing all kind of research. So many of the lines, if you just took out the team and then the player name, you could have applied it to what people were saying about Pedersen all year. And a lot of it was he's playing through something. We don't know what it is. And in Toronto right now, the question that a lot of people are asking is what is the physical breakdown that allows Matthews to play a lot of minutes, stay in the lineup, win face-offs and play pretty well in his own end,

but not produce whatsoever. They're like, what's the maybe has the yips? What's that physical ailment? Is it the yips? Is it tendonitis? Do we know? Do we have the modern medicine to diagnose? We don't know. But it is funny, the commonalities there, because at the end of the day, it's the same general narrative where your star top line, highly paid center is not producing in the clutch. And in this series, for Matthews, in this series,

it's being exacerbated by the fact that a lot of different Florida guys are showing up and putting points on the board and putting pucks in the back of the net. There was, you know, and it's all the guys that have stepped up for them in playoffs past. So you've kind of got a foil. Is Carter Verhege one of the most underappreciated players

in the league? If he was on Vancouver, would he be their best forward? So you threw this out there over the weekend and I thought about it for a while. And I was like, it can't be right. The Carter Verhege right now, if you just took him out of Florida and plopped him in Vancouver, it can't be right. And Carver Hager right now if you just took him out of Florida and plopped him in Vancouver like it can't be right and I thought about it I'm like well you know. It scores a lot of goals. Scores a lot easy. You have 40-40. You don't exactly have a ton of players that score goals. I know

oftentimes you know what listeners. He gets to play with good players but. Listeners do the thought exercise if you're in your car or you're shaving or you're eating breakfast do the thought exercise, if you're in your car or you're shaving or you're eating breakfast, do the thought exercise yourself. I think it just goes to show how good the Florida Panthers top six group is and how far the Canucks have to go in order to reach the level of, well, the Florida Panthers are the defending Stanley Cup champs. And you don't think about Carter Verhege first,

you think about Bark first, you think about Barkov, you think about Kachak, you think about Reinhardt. Sam Bennett. Sam Bennett. E2 Luster Aydin, maybe not him, but the rest of them, yeah. But there's four guys you think of before Carter Verhege. Lundell. And the guy just scores goals. Marshawn. Right? I mean, yeah Marshawn Marshawn

Marshawn is doing his thing, but you can tell he's he's a few steps behind what he used to be but he still manages to make an impact impact just because He's so smart. Like he's such a smart player. He's got eight points in nine games Yeah Marshawn like that's that's the thing He's a third liner the Panthers right now, just to give you an idea of how good the forward group is to continue on this thread, they have eight players that have eight points or more in the playoffs. Eight!

That's remarkable, they played nine games. They've got eight guys that are almost going at a point-of-game clip. So I threw this out on social media. The Panthers can't let Bennett go, can they? It would dramatically change the look of their team if they lose Sam Bennett. I realized they'd still be good.

But Sam Bennett is the definition of the guy that you need in the playoffs. He scores big goals. He loves to get involved. He is always involved in some ways. He's big. He's tough. He goes to the hard areas of the ice and he thrives in a playoff type game. They can't let him go. Are they going to regret acquiring Jones? Are they going to regret that deal? Let's say they managed to, I know some people were wondering if they did that

just in case they're not able to keep Echblad. And then fair enough, if they can't sign Echblad, then they better sign Sam Bennett if they don't sign Echblad. But Jones, I think, has a full no move clause. So he had to approve that move to Florida, right? Like he had to approve it. Now would he approve like let's say they were like this isn't really working for us so like I'm not saying he's been terrible but he hasn't

been hasn't been terrific nobody's pit isn't as punitive now because the Chicago retained and Jones is still 7 million yeah but as the cap goes up a seven million dollar defenseman okay well minutes yes anyway well. Anyway, well, bring it back to Bennett. They can't let this guy go. Well, I don't think he's going to leave. Here's the thing. If you built a winner and a perennial cup contender like Florida has, that's an attractive recruitment right there.

You come to Florida, you got a chance to win a cup. Now, the flip of that would be like, if you're already in Florida, don't leave or winning cups. They've also got the added advantage of no state in state income tax. So if you take a haircut on your contract and you're still making more scratch than maybe you would in some other places, even if you're making a little bit less, is it worth it in exchange for super nice weather,

minimal media and the chance to compete for a cup every year? I could see them being one of the places that makes it really easy to retain free agents. Yeah. And if you're Sam Bennett, here's the other thing. Sam Bennett goes to another team, let's say goes to free agency. And they bring a man as this like prized ballyhooed. He's going to give us that edge that we were lacking. That's a big ask because in Florida, he brings it, but he's got other guys to do a lot

of the heavy lifting with him. He's not, if he goes to Vancouver, he's responsible for all that stuff. Yeah. Honestly. He's like, you need to fight, you need to hit, you need to score goals, and you need to win us some games, go do it. Oh, and leadership.

Yeah, all of it. In Florida, there's Kachak, off or Hagee go down the list There's not raining all the time and you know, it's not raining one more point because I don't want to get on to some of The other series one more point about the Toronto series It is hilarious from a Vancouver perspective to see all the appreciation for Chris Tanev. Like everyone back East just learned that he's really tough. Eastern bias is real. I mean, it is.

You don't want to pay attention. It is funny. I remember reading one scouting report from back East on Chris Tanev. And he's like, he's gonna help them. Like he's a rugged physical defenseman. And I'm like, he's not a physical defenseman. Like he doesn't throw hits.

That's not his game. It's like people really didn't understand what Chris Tanev was all about. And Chris Tanev is a, he is an elite defensive defenseman that just knows how to break up plays. He doesn't use it. Like he's not throwing body checks out there. He's not out there like breaking up the cycle with his big body, which is I think what some

people expected of him. He's just really smart. And when he gets the puck, like you see how many times he just does these simple reverse plays with his defensive partner. And you know, it looks easy and he makes it look easy and he's so good at making that first pass he's also really good at taking hits which sounds weird but it is a skill he can take a take a play and he and but he

just takes hits I mean Florida is trying to tee off on him at any time, just because they realize how important he is for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I just find it entertaining because how many years when, you know, like the Canucks should've traded him for something. I mean, the shocking part, or we signed him, the shocking part is they let him walk for nothing

I mean, it's just it's just I get but they don't do that anymore. I actually get ya. Yeah Yeah, the new management group doesn't do that anymore until they did the new regime I just like it was so they couldn't have to let him go in any worse way where Not only did they not retain him and keep him, and he was a valuable member of the team, especially from a leadership perspective, they let him go to Calgary and they let him feel underappreciated. Yeah, they can't, they, they let him. The disrespect is not.

It's the killer. Anyway, I'm going to get too angry about this, but, um, it is, it is funny that Toronto people have finally woken up to Chris Tanev because Chris Tanev should have been a Leaf six or seven years ago. They should have made an aggressive move to get him, paired him with Morgan Rielly when Rielly was still, I mean Rielly can still play, but I don't think he's playing at the elite level that he was. They should have got him.

I'm telling you, it would have made a huge, huge difference. But oh well, it's Toronto. You know, so the Canucks let Chris Tanev go. You know who's having a hard time right now looking at the guy that they let go? Anyone who employed Miko Rand and specifically the Colorado Avalon. So Miko Rand, yet again, had another monster game last night.

I'm burying the lead a little bit here, but I want to start with Randon. A goal into assist. Dallas Stars beat Winnipeg 5-2 in game three of their second round series yesterday. Now, Randon is a big story. He has, I had to triple check this, he has 17 points in the last six games. 17 points in the last six games.

Nine goals and eight assists in the last six games. He is on fire. So you're thinking, how are you burying the lead? What could possibly be bigger than Miko Ranin? Well, there was some massive controversy and we will get into this mostly with Wyshinski coming up at 6.30, cause he's in Dallas for this series.

In the third period, games tied 2-2, Alex Petrovic gives Dallas a 3-2 lead when his shot, and I'm going to call it a shot for now, from below the right face off circle bounced in off Connor Hellebuck's stick. Now I'm using the word shot because it wasn't a shot. Alex Petrovic very clearly and according to NHL officials clearly kicked the puck towards the net. Now you can't-

But it wasn't going in. It was more a cross. It was like a cross, which is very soccer. It was, yeah, he squared it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He put it into the box. Almost a cutback. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

However- Like Dry Saito's goal, or sorry, Riley Smith, that pass wasn't going in. The shot that Dry Cytle put in. Riley Smith's shot was not going in. It was not going in and that kick wasn't going in either. Right. But the rules don't, and this was, now for the record.

I think they were trying to figure out the rules there. I think they were trying to figure out the rules. They were like, uh, what's going on here? So the crux of this entire thing is if it's a kicking motion and it's judged to be a kicking motion, can any puck go in? And this is sort of where the kicking motion thing gets weird because if you kick a puck directly into the net and it's a direct distinct kicking motion, that's no goal, right? That's pretty clear.

But if you kick the puck towards the net and the goalie sort of fumbles it and bats it in his own net. But it wasn't going in. I think that is very key. Like it wasn't close to going in, was it? It was because he kicked it from the... He almost kicked it from the goal line. It would be impossible for it to go in. Here's where it gets tricky. He kicked it backwards, right? Would you say he kicked it backwards? I would say it was close to being a lateral, almost like the Music City miracle, the Tennessee Titans.

I think it was backwards. It was it was very tight. Put it this way, when I watched the replay and I watched the play, I was like. Rulebook aside, that should count as a goal because the spirit is in general, the spirit of the kick is that you don't want and the kicking rules in place, essentially essentially so guys aren't flailing their blades All over the ice and it runs the risk of danger you open up kicking Do you want them hitting crosses into the box kind of?

Definitely went back. Sorry. Yeah, it was like right at the goal line and The cut yeah, yeah, it was a cut back. Yeah, so it definitely went backwards a little bit, right? So our Neal's argument was that there's nothing in the rulebook about a goalie, cause they use the word propelling. They said, they said Hellebuck propelled the puck into his hand. He's like, but there's no nothing in the rulebook. He kind of ramped it up his stick, right? Yeah. But they said the, he said,

the referee said and that he propelled it and Arneal's argument was there's no rule in the rulebook that suggests what the goalie does with the puck matters. It's that there was a distinct kicking motion that rules it out. So I'm with you on the replay, which by the way, took nine and a half minutes in house, which is a long, long time to sit and wait. I think the extra beer served though, in that time. Right. There's always a winner. I think they were trying to figure out the rule.

So I do want to mention the Euler series before we go to break and we can talk about all this with Greg Waszynski on the other side. I think he was in Dallas. He was in Dallas, yeah. The dry sidle own goal with 0.4 seconds left, it's goals like that that and not just specifically to dry sidle, but just the absolute panic in the oilers end. It's goals like that, which make me wonder if the oilers can really win the cup with either Skinner or Pickard in goal and all the glaring defensive

breakdowns the oilers experience. That was sheer panic by Edmonton. Yep. Including Skinner. There's no way that puck should have been able to make it into the slot. You know, when, when there was the four check from Vegas.

I'm not talking about. Carlson. Carlson was in the four check. I'm not talking about the Riley Smith pass. No, before. I'm talking about the original one that went to Riley Smith and there's no way that Smith should have been that wide open in the high slot.

And I know it's easier said than done to keep your composure in that sort of situation. I guess in fairness, they played it well enough to force Smith wide and missed the net with his shot. The only problem is that his shot, which was clearly going to slide through the crease without going in the net was deflected into the net by dry saddle. But I want to play some audio from Chris Knoblog because he was asked, he was asked, was that goal kind of emblematic of the way the Oilers defended in that game?

Chris was the last play of the game, perhaps a microcosm of some of the challenges you guys had in a lot of the night where they did a lot of the little things that help you win games and you guys didn't manage situations sometimes with the puck, the amount of turnovers through the first two periods and even in the final seconds very well. Yeah, anytime there's a you know turnovers in the neutral zone you don't want you know we're not a team that's can always dump and chase and put it behind. You never want any mistakes, but it is the game and you try and limit those as much as possible. The game winning goal, you know, we're in good position. We've got, really it's a one on three.

He dumps puck and they retrieve it and we're just playing a little desperate to try and make the play, block the shot and what happens is they make a play and unfortunate that that's the end of it. It is amazing to watch the Oilers on a nightly basis. They've played, I mean, game one they played terrific, but after they surrendered are two nothing lead. And they checked really well, but it's almost, I don't want to say freebies, but it's the goals where you're like, the defensive breakdowns are shocking.

But that's what makes them so entertaining. Oh, they're so much fun to watch. They're way more fun to watch. They are way better to watch this year than last year. I know last year, part of it was because they beat the Vancouver Canucks, but this year they are so flawed. They're like us. They're imperfect. They are very imperfect, but they're unlike us

and that they've got immense levels of talent that can compensate for a lot of these problems. Like that goal that Leon Dreisaitl slash Riley Smith scored, that's the first time I've ever seen that. Like I've been to Oilers, and it's tough to do stuff that you've never seen before in hockey. We've pretty much seen, I think I've seen it all. Right, you're gonna have a hard time showing me something

that I haven't seen yet. You'll remember that. Yeah, I have never ever seen That I've never with point four seconds left in a playoff game See it and I know you I know you want to go off on Skinner Well, I was gonna say they are a very human team. I see a lot of myself in Stuart's And not in a good way. What was he doing there? Like I guess he was just saying like there's not much time left So I'm gonna go so aggressive here and just saying like, there's not much time left, so I'm going to go so

aggressive here and just almost like kill the play. Well, his internal clock was off, right? He obviously thought there was less time. Yeah. Than there was, because you don't make a bold move like that unless. That was very bold. Like maybe with one second left, sure, go for it.

Very bold. With four seconds left, obviously it was a little too much time left on the clock. He misjudged that one. And Dry Saddle had a rough game overall. I mean, he was trying to make a play there. He was trying to back check. He was trying to make a play.

It didn't go his way, but I think that game was a rough one for him. We did not mention the Carolina Washington series on purpose. I'm actually disappointed at both these teams for how boring they've been. They've got a chance to make amends tonight, but the first three games of this series

have been a total dud, and it's a shame because the other three series have been full of drama and intrigue. That one is not. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. What we just have to call Thomas Drantz Erotica Corsi Thomas Grange Erotica Expect of goals

Thomas Grange Erotica Doth model Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, 803 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford rough sports net six 50 half and brother the morning. It's brought to my sans and associates BCs first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3000 five star reviews. This is the online.

It's sans dash trustee.com. We are now in our three of the program. Thomas Drance from the athletic and Canucks talk right here on sports net six 50 is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off our three hour three is breached by Campbell and pound real estate appraisers trust the expertise of Campbell and pound. This is the money internet at Campbell dash pound dot com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintex studio Kintex footwear and orthotics working together with you and step. Let's go now to the hotline powered by Power West Industries. Thomas Drance joins us now on the Halford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. What up Drance?

Gentlemen, good morning. Good morning to you. How have you enjoyed these playoffs so far, Thomas? I've really enjoyed them actually. I think the products is in as good a place as we've seen in a long, long time. I love that anytime you're watching and it's like, you know, even last night when after Sam Bennett scored, you had the feeling that it was a dagger

because of how the Florida Panthers were defending, but not to the extent that you could turn it off. We've seen so many late comebacks. We've seen what teams are doing at six on five in terms of quickly eliminating leads. You can be down two in the third period of a game seven and oh boy, that game is absolutely still liable to turn. I think how difficult it is to defend, I think the way that star players seem to be having the most decisive impact shaping outcomes. The fact that you're not just like looking at these teams and saying, oh, that third line is the best third line in the NHL like that,

they're probably going to win. I think that's all really good for the sport and there's been a ton of fun to watch. So in light of all of that and what you just said, what sort of lessons could the Vancouver Canucks be learning about what's gone on through? And we've only been through basically around and a half a playoff so far. Yeah, I mean, I do think that we're in this interesting moment

generally where the league's got a couple of things that are all changing basically all at once. Now, some of this is a change in how the data is collected, right? And the way that they're like assigning shots that are missed shots versus shots on goal and really like drilling down, mostly because of prop betting to sort of make sure that the stat counts are accurate. But one thing we're seeing is like a massive drop in shot volume in this playoffs, but also sort of across the league. So 19 teams last season generated more than 30 shots on goal, right? 19 of 32.

Before the pandemic, it was 23. And this year, this past season, it was just four, just four teams managed 30 shots on goal or more per game. And all of them are still playing, right? We're talking Florida, we're talking Carolina, we're talking Edmonton, we're talking Vegas. And I think what that creates, right, is an emphasis on teams that generate as opposed to what's often been the hockey bromide especially at this time of year the idea of defense winning championships right and look no

one no one disagrees like you need to be really good defensively to win too but in a in a world where shots are at such a premium right the ability to generate them the ability to regularly generate looks creates this sort of dynamic where, well, if you can't do that, you can't solve the problems that are inevitably going to crop up over, you know, two and a half months of playoff hockey, right? When you're trailing and when it's two nothing because Nathan McKinnon just stuck a dagger in your heart in the third period. Do you have enough? Are you able to reliably enough sort of generate these shots and, and ultimately quality looks to stress out your opponent and give yourself a

shot to come back now from a Canucks perspective, obviously, we know that this Canucks team has not generated looks at a good enough rate. Uh, even when they were, Pacific Division winner a couple of years back. So sort of an emphasis on that top talent, right? On getting guys that can generate effectively. And really in Vancouver's case, finding ways to generate when Quinn Hughes isn't on the ice because this team generates a lot when Quinn Hughes isys is on the ice, right? Like he can drive those sorts of outcomes. He is the type of player that we're talking about that teams need at this time of year to be that game breaking piece.

But those non-Huys minutes, like this team has been just praying, right? Like you're just praying for goals in minutes where Quinhuys takes a breather and that's got to be something that this team finds a way to sort of raise the floor on, which obviously won't be easy this summer. Well, then it comes back to the old argument. Is it system or is it players for the Canucks? Yeah, it's always been players though.

I agree. Not the market doesn't though. I know, but the market doesn't, I mean, coaching has been the probably the area frankly across the last well you know post Willie D anyway who like coaching has probably been the area where the Canucks are closest to you know being like among the better teams in the league across the Canucks are closest to, you know, being like among the better teams in the league across the last 10 years, right? I mean, Travis Green is a good coach. Bruce Boudreau is a good coach. Not my flavor, but a good coach. Rick Tocket, good coach. Like, you know, this team hasn't had a great blue line through all those years. They haven't had,

well, they mostly had really good goaltending, but not always. Uh, they definitely haven't had like likable personalities you can relate to and want to see when, uh, but they've had competent coaching. Uh, they haven't had the horses. They haven't had the horses in 15 years. Yeah. And that's it. Like, I don't, I don't know how anyone can say that coaching is the issue unless you're just watching the game in that like negative space that hockey

fans watch games in where you're mad at every mistake that your team makes, mad at every missed call or bit of contact that you're, you know what I mean? You're just like literally watching it, yelling at the TV and then occasionally celebrating a goal. Isn't that Canucks hockey though? Isn't that how everyone watches? That is how everyone watches hockey, I think.

How else are you supposed to watch it though, Dranser? No, if you watch hockey that way, just understand that your takes are going to be warped. No, yeah. Sorry, I went to watch a Leafs game with a buddy who was in town. I took him to a local bar that is like a, the Leafs bar. And I was stunned because I'm just not used to watching hockey this way anymore. Right. But I was stunned by just how negatively.

Like these people were having a good time and it was honestly kind of charming to be around them too. Like it made me think that what I really want when I watch games is also to have like a homer track. So I want to like hear the crowd, I want to hear the announcer, but then I also want to hear the biggest homer group of fans for that team be like, oh Marner, you know, like nice, he's so good. that team be like, Oh, Marner, you know, like, nice, he's so good. I still remember my conversation years ago with the Leafs fan who was just convinced that Tyler Bozak was a one C.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the main thing they were convinced about was that the officiating was like criminal, criminally dead set against them. Yeah.

And I like the whole bar, just losing their mind at every time like a Panthers player breathed on a Maple Leafs player. And then, you know, you see like behind the play some Panthers player gets run. No one comments on that, right? And anyway, I just think if you watch hockey that way, like it's fun.

And like, I think if you have that release to your frustration you know on a thrice weekly basis like that can't be a bad thing that's fine and like you know you enjoy life the way you want to but I do think if you watch hockey that way your takes are gonna be bad and you're gonna miss appreciating an awful lot of the skill like tactical ingenuity that we're seeing on a regular basis because there's a lot of cool stuff happening in hockey, in NHL hockey game, game to game that was absolutely not commented on by anyone in that bar. It was a real like reminder for me of what it was or what it used to be like as a fan anyway. Well, I mean, we were having a conversation earlier in the show about the Florida Panthers top six group

and you think about Barkov and you think about Ryan Hart, Sam Bennett, Matthew Kachak, conversation earlier in the show about the Florida Panthers top six group. And you think about Barkov and you think about Ryan Hart, Sam Bennett, Matthew Kachuk, obviously, but like his cover for Hagee, would he be the best forward on the Canucks right now? Oh my God. No. Do you know what I mean though? Like he's why, if he, why do you, you can't dismiss it straight out of hand. Like who would right now? Who'd you write now? That's not signed who'd you say is better like let's just make it real simple who would be better

Better than Carter Verhege. Oh, man. I will I mean I go no I'm curious like run run through it I'm not either for or against arguing I'm not willing to live in a world where I say the following words out loud You're right Carter Verhage is better than Olias Pettersson. Like I'm not willing to live in that world. Okay Chance, okay. I'll take keep going Really yeah over for the guy who scored 42 goals a couple of years ago and scored 11 goals in the playoffs last year? Okay, but I don't want to argue every one of them.

Sorry, sorry. Carter Verhege, I mean, look, I thought last night was the best game that he's played in a long time. Also, a shout out to Ray Ferraro, who thinks that Carter Verhege is on the verge of breaking out. I never want to argue with Ray, but that's one of his pet takes, and he was very excited after the Verhege is on the verge of breaking out. I never want to argue with Ray, but that's

one of his pet takes and he was very excited after the Verhege goal yesterday. But I mean, Verhege is like that contract is massively regrettable. It's a lot. The one that the Panthers signed him to. He's been awful all year. And he's been really bad in the playoffs for the most part. But I will say he's one of those guys who just like, I do think is like perfectly wired for big moments. Yep.

You know what I mean? Just because I think he approaches them all the same way. I think he's one of those guys. Like the, what are the stakes guys? I think he's one of those. And so he's been a nice complimentary fit there, but I also feel like he's a guy that like 50-50 the Florida Panthers you're reading in June about the Florida Panthers like trying to trade Carter Verhage and being willing to accept

virtually nothing in return to keep better that is coming okay so let's Vancouver so we can become the third best forward. Well, he's got an NMC, unfortunately. Yeah, right. To answer, it was my mistake. I shouldn't have got caught up on Carter Verhage, but I think my point was- They're loaded. The Canucks have so far to go.

Like, take Verhage out, Barkov, Reinhardt, Kachuk, Bennett. And let him go. Yeah. And he's their three seed, right? Like, I mean, it is, I just keep coming back to this, this, this challenge that the Canucks have this off season to add in Jim Rutherford's words, three forwards.

And I don't think anyone is sitting there going, he's talking about the bottom six. He's talking about adding three forwards to the top six how are they gonna do this? I mean like I don't know the long and the short of it is I don't know it's they are premium positions to add you have to be you have to swing right because you you know the truth is is that when they acquired Reinhardt, it still cost them a first in Devon Levi, but that's a selkie nomination, nominee 50 goal scoring winger, right? When they, when they traded for Sam Bennett, it was for two seconds.

And that's, you know, Canadian hero Sam Bennett. Um, I mean, as much as I'd be nervous about it, given that Sam Bennett has never hit 50 points in a season, I mean, I'm not probably going to jump up and down and turn red in the face and be too critical of the team that signed Sam Bennett at 10 times eight, You know, like he's pretty cool. That was a great goal last night. Um, but you have to find those guys before they're those guys, or you have to bet on those guys before they're those guys, right? Like that's, that's the key.

You've got to find some guys who are distressed because you can't, the amount of talent that this Florida Panthers team has is silly. Like it, it, it's hilarious. It's absurd how good they are. Right. And, and, you know, I think Lundell being the three C's, the perfect example where it's just like, I mean, not that he's a high end offensive guy, there's zero cheat in his game.

He's always on the right side of the park. That's what makes him in loose terrain and so effective. But when you watched earlier in the season, when Sasha Barkov was out and he was operating on power play wine, you're watching it and you're just like, Oh my God, like this guy, for sure can be a 30 points 70 or 30 goals, 70 point center. I mean, for sure. He could, could could be if he was, you know, 20 minutes a night, right? Like if he's getting 20 minutes a night and all the first power play in it, like he's

going to be a 70 point guy and he's in their bottom six. They've been scratching of like this Mackie Semiskevich guy. And it's like that guy is going to be a 20 goal scorer probably next year as they have to adjust to some departures. Um, and after they moved for Hague. So, you know, I think the, I love this has become the Carter Verhage show by the way. No, the level of the level of talent that some of these good teams have is, is ridiculous. Like not just the Canucks. This is not from a Canucks perspective. There's 18 teams in the league for who this, they're playoff teams for who this applies. Where you look at where their roster's at and then you look at where the Panthers,

I think the Oilers, I think Carolina. Dallas. Dallas. Yeah. Have you seen Dallas is pending UFAs? Like, holy, holy crap. And it's just like, how? How do you ever get from here to there? And the only way is to take on an awful lot of risk, nail it in terms of selecting it the draft for years, like for years. And, you know, I ideally have some,

look, it doesn't hurt to have low state income tax so that players actually want to Push their way to play for you I mean those those are three ways to do it or you get McDavid and dry saddle and just go nuke on everybody But yeah, I mean it's it's silly how much talent these top teams have and it's Preposterous that anyone thinks like oh the problem is the Canucks will be fine if they just get the right coach in it's just like Canucks will be fine if they just get the right coach in. It's just like, Canucks will be fine if they just get the right mix of 10 to 12 additional guys that aren't currently on the roster. Uh, Dranser, can you allow that, uh, I'm sure you will allow this, uh,

that Carter Verhage's, a lot of his production is a product of who he gets to play with. I mean, that's definitely part of it. Okay, I don't want to go any further than that. That's definitely part of that. Okay, you'll allow it. Good complimentary guy. How many players do the Canucks have

that make the guys better around them? And I think about, you know, I have all the respect in the world for Alex Burrows, but he wasn't gonna score like that unless he had chemistry with the Sidines, right? The Sidines were a large part of his career. So who do the Canucks have that are going to be able to, you know, elevate the players around them?

Elevate the players around them. Well, so, you know, look, listen I want to get into this because I find this a fascinating concept right and for example I think it really applies in terms of like lessons people should internalize about how far the connects are away personnel wise because when you think about like what's the NHL's current answer to Alex Burrows probably Probably Zach Hyman, right? Especially when he plays with Dreisaitl and McDavid. Sure.

But there's another guy on the Oilers who's really funny to hear people talk about because for me anyway, he is also a beneficiary of environment as opposed to a driver of environment, but because he plays defense and it's Evan Bouchard and McDavid and Dreisaitl play forward and he's not their line mate, people don't often think about Bouchard as being a caddy for McDavid and Dreisaitl, right? And the way that I've sort of begun to frame it and think about it is the environment that McDavid and Dreisaitl create like could not be better for massive shooting, slick offensive defensemen, right?

To come in and make sure that that environment counts on the scoreboard, because that's the other thing. You can create as great an environment you want. You also need to be able to finish. Like you also need to have the cutting edge. And so for example, I would suggest to you that the Canucks have one true environment creating player, and it's Quinn Hughes. And I would suggest to you too, that they had one true environment creating player last season, and it was Quinn Hughes. But they did

have a guy in JT Miller, who I think was like the forward Bouchard, perfectly calibrated to make the environment he was created count on the scoreboard because of just how sharp he is at shooting through traffic and the plays that he was able to make. Even last year, I wouldn't have been like, JT Miller is the answer of guy who can elevate his teammates. I would have said he's a guy who can take the environment created by an engine like you and make that environment count in terms of outscoring opponents and driving goals. So yeah I would say the Connects have won and it's Quinn but you know a lot of teams have have one or two and then it's like, do you have some guys who are good enough? And then do you have some guys who can make that environment count? Right? I mean, one thing about this Panthers

team is like, Barkov is the is that creator, and he's really the only one for that team, in my opinion, anyway. Kachuk is just a nails playmaker, completely unique. But if you're watching that second line and like, as you watch this series, watch how reluctant Maurice is to have that line out against William Nylander. Yeah. And, uh, and now the, the two O goal was scored in those minutes off of a great job that Kachuk did shadowing Nylander in the neutral zone. So it's not like it's a liability matchup for the Panthers by any means,

but to have success that Bennett Kachuk-Verhege line, they need to cheat a little bit. They need to cheat a little bit to create that offense. And that's part of what makes them so bad ass. Isn't there like they have such a good sense of, of timing and the dramatics, they're all winning players, but you do that a little bit against Nylander, he's liable to get loose against you off the rush. And Maurice clearly knows it because he's, you know,

sickening Barkov, not on Matthews and Marner, but on Nylander. Well, Nylander's their best forward. It makes sense to put Barkov out there against him. Yeah, I mean, I still think it's Marner, but Matthews is clearly not right. Have you actually heard the conversation in Toronto around Matthews? It sounds like Connex fans talking about Pedersen.

Said it this morning. We said that exact same thing this morning. Did you? Yeah. Yeah, exact same thing. Playing great defense though. Yeah, when it pays off, playing great D. It's like, cool, this is the greatest goal scorer of his generation. We would like more than that, please.

Anyway, yeah, so point being the, what was I, well, I don't even remember how we got here. We were just randomly talking about Carter Verhege. There was some Quinn Hughes love part spread in there as well. You know, I know- Point is, point is it's only Hughes. Hughes is the environmental creator, but that's okay.

You can have different types of players around that guy to win. What you definitely do need though are some guys that help compliment and make that environment like sharper and more productive and more likely to outscore your opponents. And I think that's also something that connects lack right? Dr. Answer, always fun buddy. Cheers guys. Are you off for a bit? Yeah, yeah. I've got a destination family wedding. So I've got two more shows at Canucks Talk.

Thank you guys for having me earlier in the week to accommodate me. And then yeah, I'll be back late next week. So all right, buddy. Enjoy the destination. Enjoy the white lotus. Thanks. I'll try not to be the one that they tease at the start of the series. Thomas Jantz from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on the Halford and Brough

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