Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 5/15/25

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they discuss the Canucks naming Adam Foote head coach as well as Rick Tocchet going to the Flyers, they talk about if a Canucks coaching change might help Elias Pettersson, plus the boys tell us what they learned. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Br Mikala makes it 4-0 Florida. Well, I don't think they came any harder than they have. To be honest with you, I think we let them come tonight. Well, you know, I mean, we stood around and watched. We know that they're going to be coming all over us everywhere on the ice. nursing guys reflected in the stretch of team. It's loose, it's in, it's in! It's won the game and the series!

Good morning Vancouver, 6-0-1 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday everybody, this is Halpern in his bra, Fitties Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studios in beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Ada, good morning to you. Good morning. Ladi, good morning to you as well.

Hello, hello. Halpern in bra for the morning is brought to you by Sands & Associates, BC's first entrusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five-star reviews. Visit them online at sands-trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid.

Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec Footwear and Orthotics, working together with you and Step. We got a huge show today. I don't know why sports decided to cram everything into yesterday, but they sure did, specifically the National Hockey League.

So we got a million things that we need to get to the guest list today begins at 630 It's our good buddy Sam McKee from fan 590 in Toronto real kipper and born Leafs talk Oh, I want to find Sam's tweet from last night And this came in During the Leafs game. It's just five words Actually, I don't know if I can read it. Can't say the first two. No, I guess a family show it is have some pride And then who referred to and then a religious figure and then J and C and then JC. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

He was upset. He was irate He was hot last night Unlike his hockey team real good performance by the Leafs last night lost the squeaker 6-1 and home to the Panthers in game 5 of their second round series we'll talk to Sam at 630 about What the Leafs do from here because it sure felt like they barely had a pulse last night in a very pivotal game 5 in that Series that's at 637 o'clock Jordan Hall from NBC Sports Philadelphia is gonna join us because Rick Tuckett is the new head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers. His introductory remarks yesterday Tuckett said that he's always been a flyer at heart

and he got a pretty big paycheck to follow his heart. So what I want to know and we'll ask Jordan this at seven o'clock what are the expectations for the Flyers this season this year coming up with Rick Tuckett behind the bench. What are the expectations. We'll talk to Jordan Hall about that at seven o'clock. What are the expectations for the flyers this season? This year coming up with Rick talk at behind the bench, what are the expectations? We'll talk to Jordan Hall about that at seven o'clock eight o'clock. Tyler, your REM Chuck is going to join the program. Oh yeah. The Edmonton Oilers eliminated the Vegas golden Knights last night. That also happened late. They punched their ticket to their second straight Western conference final third

in the last four years. Uh, and of course the oilers did it by winning a super tight defensive battle, one nothing in overtime where the heroes were Stuart Skinner and Casperi Kaepernick, just like we all expected. So the oilers were on their way to the Western conference final. We'll talk to Tyler about that at eight o'clock eight 30 sat to our Shaw is going to join the program. Very busy day in Cannock land yesterday, Adam foot named the 22nd head coach in franchise history. Satyar Shah is going to join the program. Very busy day in Canuckland yesterday, Adam Foote, named the 22nd head coach in franchise history.

The club then agreed to terms with prize prospect Tom Bielander. I don't know why the Canucks decided to cram all this stuff into yesterday, but then again, I don't know the rationale for a lot of things, but we're going to talk to Sat about a very busy day in Canuckland yesterday. So working in reverse on the guest list,

8.30 at Sat, eight o'clock Tyler Uremchuk, seven o'clock Jordan Hall, 6.30 Sam McKee. We are giving away tickets to see the Who like we have every day this week. I will announce the details about that in the seven o'clock hour. The call will happen, caller number five at 8.15 this morning.

That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was. We know how messy your life can be. What happened?

Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. In the end, Jason, the Vancouver Canucks

didn't look or go very far to find their new head coach. The team announced on Wednesday that Adam Foote, former assistant coach to Rick Tauket, has been elevated to head coach, becoming the 22nd head coach in franchise history. Yeah, and I think the statement that Patrick Alveen sent out when the news was announced said a lot of things. And it wasn't just, you know, the usual nonsense that you get in a press release quote.

Alveen noted that Adam Foote has already gained the players' respect. He knows the group better than anyone else and he brings, here are these words again, structure and accountability and he has a process that will send a clear message to our group about the way we want to compete, practice and play hockey. So for anyone that was looking for a brand new philosophy or system, completely fresh start in the way the Canucks play hockey, well, you're not going to get it with Adam Foote. Durant's reported that Durant's reported in the athletic that Foote has already discussed his views and plans for what this club should look and feel like when it hits the ice next fall, his input on the next Canucks

roster was part of the process when he was interviewed. Um, so I'm pretty sure that this means that Elias Pettersson will still have to move his feet and that the reprogramming of his brain will continue but with a different doctor. Okay, so I listened to, same approach. The reprogramming will continue until morale improves. New physician, his name is Dr. Foot. There was a lot of conversation obviously yesterday

on the station, this news broke right after we got off the air and then the 16 Canucks branded shows that we have throughout the day dove into it with great emphasis and great detail. And there was a lot of feedback from the listeners. Canucks IT had a lot of coverage. Yup. Canucks happy hour went deep. They were into it.

I understand that Adam Foot is taking over a team that's in crisis and had a very, very disappointing and dysfunctional year. I also know that a lot of people and in part because of the statement released by general manager Patrick Alveen are expecting a talk at clone, both in style of play, personality, and then whatever, whatever else Adam Foote is gonna bring from behind the bench. There's a text that came in this morning, and I did just kinda wanna start there,

of only to get it off my chest. It's an unsigned text, so it's from Gary, and he writes, "'I'm already tired of the crowd that is so sure "'that Adam Foote as the head coach is the wrong move. "'Gary, I am with you. I don't know if it's because I'm getting old and I'm just tired of the constant sea of negativity, even though we've, you know, swam and bathed in it for years here at the Halford and Brough show.

But I actually I hate the way that he's come into this job. I hate it. I hate everything about it. I feel bad for him because I think he has to deal with a lot of the skeletons, which he got to experience last year. I mean, make no mistake about it. I feel bad for him because I think he has to deal with a lot of the skeletons, which he got to experience last year. I mean, make no mistake about it. He was on the job for a lot of this stuff happening. But if you ever talk about giving someone a chance and a fair shake and a clean slate, I feel that at least from market perception, he's not getting it right now. And that sucks for him. It really does because he should be allowed to be judged as a head coach on the merits of what he does

After he gets a job, and I know that's a Pollyanna Approach because some people are gonna say he's forever tied to talk it. He was the guy's assistant He was his right-hand man and the statements suggest that we're gonna get more of the same I understand the vitriol, but it's a bummer I'm gonna ask a question that's probably gonna get me in trouble. No, nothing here it's a safe space. Are there any people out there that are both harsh critics of Pedersen and harsh critics of talk at slash foot? Now are you suggesting, like to me it seems like there's a bit of tribalism here? Yeah.

There's a one or the other? Like there was a, there was, there was tribalism before in the Elias Pedersen versus JT Miller debate. And now that seems to be like, talk, it was responsible for whatever happened to Pedersen or talk, it's system or style didn't suit Pedersen. Like, I understand, like you could be anti--pettersson and also anti the system that they play I would understand that because the connects offense was a problem But the way I look at it the connects offense was a problem because of the players

Like in the first half of last season they couldn't get the puck out of their own end because their blue line stunk They couldn't get the puck out of their own end because their blue line stunk. Pedersen was bad all season. And then the second half of the season, when they fixed the defense, you know, they lost all their, they lost all their scoring punch up front. Like find me, find me a coach that could have done anything with that forward group last season the way it was constructed. They didn't have much talent, they didn't have much speed, they didn't have much shooting ability. I mean, they were one of the worst top sixes in the NHL.

And that texter that texted in said, after saying I'm already tired of the crowd that is so sure that Adam Foote as head coach is the wrong move, he said the biggest issue that must be addressed is what are they gonna do about Pedersen and how are they going to improve the top six and that is 100% correct. Yeah.

Now I understand a lot of the reaction that happened yesterday. I don't know how much you caught of it. I don't know how much the dogs caught of it either, but every host that we had on the station kind of said the same thing. It's like, Hey, we actually have a glass half full text.

What a refreshing change of pace. There was a lot of negativity in the market yesterday about the hire. I don't think we should try and ignore that or escape it. actually have a glass half full text. What a refreshing change of pace. There was a lot of negativity in the market yesterday about the hire. I don't think we should try and ignore that or escape it. And there's a lot of different reasons for that. One, the head coach that the organization wanted left. And on the same day, and I don't know whether this

was coincident or not, but on the same day that Adam Fook got named head coach, the coach that the Canucks wanted, Rick Tauke, was being anointed the new head coach in Philadelphia. So there's a sting to that. Did you, there's a lot of, I don't know if the Canucks Twitter has infiltrated Philly Twitter, but like they don't like this hire much either. They're like, what's this guy ever done? I'm like, look at the teams he's coached. Does no one bring this up? He coached a basket case Tampa Bay Lightning franchise.

He hopped over to a basket case Arizona Coyotes franchise, and then finished off with what he thought he's like, oh, I'm coming to Vancouver, it'll be fine. And they might've been the biggest basket cases of all. Yeah. You know, I remember him getting lots of kudos in Arizona early on. And he certainly got lots of kudos in Vancouver when he won, you know, coach of the year. Is he a perfect coach?

No, show me a perfect coach. I don't think it one exists. Well, maybe Coop, but you know, you know, it's like, it's like, sometimes I wonder, are you, are you watching the games? And if you are, do you have any idea what you're watching? Because to sit there and say that Rick Tocket doesn't allow his players any freedom while still watching Quinn Hughes is like, what? Like what is Quinn Hughes like a, oh, there's Quinn Hughes is like, what?

Like what is Quinn Hughes like a, oh, there's Quinn Hughes glassing out and dump it in every time, right? Like he'll give freedom to the players that deserve it. But unfortunately on this roster, that happened to many players that earned their freedom. Okay, so just to play devil's advocate there, I do have time for the criticism that Rick Tuckett faced last year

when offense dried up and goals were at a premium. There wasn't a significant philosophical shift or strategical change to try and generate more offense. Oftentimes, and too often, even for my liking, and I had a lot of time and patience for the way Tuck had approached the job, I thought way too often it was, well, we've shown the guys how to do it

and they're not getting it done. Or the answers were, we have to bear down in front of the net, we have too many block shots and too many miss shots, we need to be more finite with our shots. And I'm like, okay, that's probably right, and that's probably accurate, but if you trot that out time and time again,

at a certain point you have to say, maybe we don't have very accurate shooters and we need to try something different. And that, there was a stubbornness there at times. I think there was an exasperation there at times. Well, yeah, there was an exasperation watching the team, but a lot of it came down to like, why aren't you hitting the net?

I mean, you're not paid to ask the questions, you're paid to answer them as a function. Fair or not, that's the entirety of the job. I get it. I understand it, I understand it, but for me- Someone texted in, Tauke also said, I don't know a lot. There was a bit of that, there was a bit of the throwing

the hands up in the air, and I understand people's frustration, but I'm with you through the day. If you were coaching Pedersen, would you have thrown your hands up in the air a few times? Maybe privately. I'd be throwing them up like I just don't care. Maybe privately. You're dead.

Like, it must have been, it must've been, it must've meant, and now this is another, now this is the job for Adam foot. Right. So part of the, part of the response that the foot hire got was based on those factors that I already mentioned coming into a kind of an acrimonious situation, not the organization's

number one choice kind of felt like, Hey, here's a guy that is already on payroll, knows where the bathroom key is, has a parking pass already, let's give him the job. It was going to be him or Manny, as a lot of people suggested. And I think to some people, that was underwhelming. I hate that it's clouded what should be at the very least, something that piques people's interest and curiosity because even though it's fraught with risk having a guy that's never been an NHL head coach before, there is some intrigue there.

You get to see what his staples and his tenants and all that stuff is gonna be and how it's gonna differ from talk it because they are not gonna be the same head coach. They might be similar. They might have a lot of similarities with the stuff that Alvin mentioned in terms of structure and discipline, but there are going to be differences. That's only natural. And I'm curious to see what those are going to be moving forward.

Do you think he'll put his foot down a lot? Oh, there's the foot pun. The first of many foot puns that I thought everyone got out of their system yesterday, but apparently no. So Adam Foote has a media avail at 11 AM this morning. a few questions that he might get asked. Why do you think you're ready for this job? Like what did he learn from his stint as a head coach in the WHL, if anything, but that did not go well and it did not end well.

So maybe there'd be some conversation about that. Remember, this is a guy that, he was in the Colorado system for a bit as a coach. Long time. But he wasn't, I don't think he was on the bench or anything like that. Player development primarily. Yeah. And then wasn't an assistant coach with the Canucks for long. And now he's the head coach of the Canucks. He went from getting fired in Kelowna, and again, the junior is different, but it didn't go well there.

And just a few years later, he's head coach in the NHL. So why do you think you're ready for this? Did Quinn Hughes lobby for you? How much are you going to lean on your relationship with Quinn Hughes? Obviously a lot. What about your staff? What do you want to bring in to fill out your staff? Because I think that's going to be very important.

First, with his lack of experiences in NHL, What about your staff? What do you want to bring in to fill out your staff? Because I think that's going to be very important. First, with his lack of experience as an NHL head coach, but also, you know, the, maybe there's a guy that can help the Canucks create some offense. Speaking of that, is the system going to change? What needs to improve? Adam Foote might have some different ideas from Rick Tocket. You know, I don't think we should just assume that he thinks the exact

same thing about Tocket on everything. This is a big one for me. What style of players, cause I think this, this'll, this'll tell you, um, about, you know, what kind of hockey he wants to play. What style of players would you like to add? Yeah What have you free agencies just around the corner Adam? What have you advocated for? And then finally will you be flying to Sweden to chat with alias peterson? I think that was a plan for talk it so Get on that plane Adam

Buddy one for me like how is he gonna handle alias peterson like more than any other question? I have more than coaching style the system will deploy like I really want to know what he'll do with Ep40 assuming ep40 is still a member of the Vancouver Canucks. This is true. Yeah, there's always that possibility Okay, we got some other things. It's like why are you asking me about peterson? Oh, I've said too much This piece of paper here. In other Connexuses yesterday, the Connexus have finally, finally welcomed Tom V. Lander into the fold. The team signed the Boston University defenseman to a three-year entry-level contract yesterday. I don't know the exact structure of his A bonuses and B bonuses all

the way down to his Q bonuses, but apparently they were able to come to an agreement on what kind of money he wanted because Tom V. Lander is now a member of the Vancouver Canucks after signing his three year ELC. Alveen in his statement in the press release didn't really say much. He said, now is the perfect time for him to take the next step and join our organization. The hard work starts this summer and we look forward to seeing where Tom is at, at training camp. And so that was pretty vague and not surprisingly so. I'm not sure what to expect from Willander to be honest.

When we're talking about next season, the boring prediction would be that he starts next season at Abbotsford. Learns the pro game and is ready for NHL duty when he's ready. There are two exciting alternatives though. Let's go. Number one, they fast track them to the NHL and consider something wild, like trading Philip Peronac to address the forward group. We kind of discussed this yesterday.

I'm intrigued. Maybe you bet on the young guys like Will Ender, DPD, Mancini. You still got veterans like Marcus Pedersen and Tyler Myers. You let Quinn Hughes carry a pair, maybe with Will Ender. If not, maybe with Tyler Myers or Mancini, or you go on to free agency and you get a cheaper right shot defenseman that can handle some stuff. That is an exciting alternative, Jason.

What's the other one? They use them as a trade chip this off season. Oh my God, that's exciting too. She'll be like, nobody, nobody makes Jim Rutherford look like a fool. You're gone. Give you a schedule T bonus for trade. Yeah, so I don't know.

I think all those options might be on the table. I, you know, if they, you hear through Drantz that they've essentially made DPD untouchable as one of their prospects. And if I were a team looking at the Canucks and maybe I'm doing a slight retool with my team and I've got a top six forward that I'm willing to deal and I want pieces, I'd be, first of all, I'd be like, okay, well I'll take a first round draft pick this year.

15th overall. Yonk. Fine. Yonk. And then I want a prospect. Yeah. And between Willander and Leckermackie, I mean that team might have specific needs that they want to address, but I'd probably take Will Lander.

I mean, I'll be very curious to see how quickly they start moving now in terms of let's address this top six forward problem. Because in addition to everything else that dropped yesterday, there was the Jim Rutherd interview with Stephen Brunt that made a lot of waves in the market about another very candid sit down interview from the president of hockey ops, talking about how trying this past year was, how they thought they were a contender and then they got reverted to a team in transition. And now they're trying to transition out of being a team and

transition back to a contender again, all signs point to getting this thing right back on track. Now that they've quote unquote unquote solved the JT Miller, Elias Pedersen situation. So we'll be very curious to see what happens there. Uh, before we go to break, let's try and get these scores in from last night because it was another very eventful night in the national hockey league in the Stanley cup playoffs. I'll save the Toronto stuff for Sam McKee cause he's coming up at six 30, but I do want to mention that it was Casperi captain in seven 19 of overtime. Let's get the audio ready that it was Casperi Capon in 719 of overtime. Let's get the audio ready. Lattie.

The Edmonton Oilers eliminated the Vegas Golden Knights in five games with a one nothing overtime victory in the second round of their Western Conference Series in Vegas on Wednesday night. Here was the hero Casperi Capon in overtime across dry saddle saucer. First, it has. It's. It's. What the game and the series. Casperi.

In overtime. I wanted to play the audio because of all the slapping and clapping of sticks. It was the it was the greasiest slap happy. It was a jam play and all jam plays then the game and it was Casperi cabinet and Stuart Skinner leading the charge for the Edmonton Oilers who took care of Vegas rather emphatically. I know it was a tight series, but a five gamer is a five gamer. It was over faster than a lot of people thought it was going to.

Obviously, Vegas was nowhere near 100 percent. Mark Stone didn't play last night after limping through the previous game. Edmonton off to their second consecutive Western conference. I thought, I thought dry side. It was awesome last night. Yep. Pot Coles are made a nice play on the winner too.

The blue line. They get contributions from all those guys up front. That plucky oilers team gritting out a one, nothing victory. It's crazy, right? We all thought they were going to do it. Yeah. I mean, I did not see back to back shout outs for

Skinner. You told me the beginning of the series when Calvin Pickard was the starting goalie, that they would end it in five with Stuart Skinner posting back to back shutouts. What happened? Do you know who scored the last goal for Vegas?

Tri-Cidal. Right into his own net. Forgot about that. And the four seals went up. So long ago now. It's it is remarkable that what they were able to do. And I did not see the defensive prowess coming this quickly. I saw them winning games but outscoring their problems.

I did not see them turning into an absolute wagon defensively. I mean, if they play Carolina in the Stanley Cup final now, every game's gonna be one nothing. They're both the two best defensive teams in hockey. Crazy. Yeah, I don't know what Vegas is going to do this offseason, but the Mark Stone situation has been tough for a few years.

He's such a good player, but he can't stay healthy. Patrangelo's getting older. I'm sure his body is starting to wear down a little bit. They need to add some speed. They look slow. They look slow. I thought Eichel played really well yesterday, but he just couldn't buy a goal, Skinner.

Just doesn't have it. See, he doesn't have it. Skinner made a really nice save, a shoulder, shoulder save off of, off of him. But he looked like he was, he was skating well, Eichel yesterday, but the others did a good job. You know, there were three or four times when, um, you know, a Vegas player beat an oiler defenseman one-on-one, like just like dangled the defenseman and Skinner was there every time I did it in the third period and said, I'm out and how'd you get a fan on

the shop? But also I think Skinner got a piece of it. Um, it's funny though, cause you mentioned how great the Edmonton Oilers forward group was in terms of depth. Like you've got Casperi Kapanen, not a factor against Los Angeles and comes into this series, scores a huge overtime series winning goal. The flip side of that is that the Vegas got nothing out of their depth forwards. They just really did. I mean, the guy that came in last night for Mark Stone,

one of my favorite names, Cole Schwint. Cole Schwint came in at forward. And I think that is just sort of cherry picking on my behalf. Sure. But also symbolic of how much depth Edmonton has it forward. But the fact that they can go to these guys in different moments and they give them things with regularity. I mean, think of the guys that starred for them in this series. Adam Henrique, Evander Kane, Pod Coleson had a big series, Caspery Kaepernick scores the series winning goal.

Like that's depth, that's what you need in the post season. Okay, so remember yesterday, right at the end of the show, I said something along the lines of like, I don't really believe in momentum in game to game in the playoffs. In fact, I believe more in anti-momentum in that there's usually like a bounce back between games and maybe the team that won the last game gets a little comfortable and the team that lost

it gets a little desperate. And I said, well, I expect the Leafs to come out and have a pretty strong effort tonight. Well, I picked them to win. That was 6 billion percent wrong. Could not be more wrong. By good old Halford and Brough. And you know, if you're going to be wrong, it might as well be funny.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. This is why I wonder if Adam Foote has a different idea on how to get through to Pedersen. Ian McIntyre had a tweet yesterday that kind of came out of nowhere and I don't know if this is just iMac. Like here's a thought.

Okay. Or if this was an informed tweet, but he just said, for those who think Rick Taukett was too hard on Elias Pedersen, don't expect Adam Foot to be any less demanding or insistent on accountability. Are there people out there that think that Tauke was too hard on Pedersen? Yes, many. That's crazy to me. That is absolutely wild.

And also his coaching style was not able to mesh with Pedersen's play. I'm more surprised. You're surprised by this. So, so when Tocket, like I thought it was more just like their styles don't mesh as opposed to being too hard, right? And the whole reprogramming thing and the dumping it in and everything. So when Pedersen would double clutch with the puck and he'd defer, defer, defer, and he'd pass off and he never even looked like he was ready to shoot.

How do your brains that want to blame Tauke for anything explain that? Was that, was that Elias Pedersen going, oh yeah, my coach doesn't want me to shoot in this situation. Tauke didn't give him the confidence to succeed. The confidence. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.. Hold on hold on. You didn't give him the confidence. There is something between that making it black and white like he was either too overbearing or. I don't agree with that by the way I'm just saying. Okay. That's the narrative.

But Rubé had something interesting during this series when he was talking about Willie Nylander. When Nylander was going, he said, I don't talk to him. And then he said when Nylander's not going, he's like, I don't talk to him. He's like, he's a guy that wants to be left alone. So I leave him alone. Now I'm not saying that that's applicable in every scenario, but there is something about grinding a guy down to a nub. When we, and you heard Tauke at speaking about, I can't count the number of meetings that I had with Elias Pedersen, right? At a certain point, every parent out there right now

is probably nodding along. They're like, yeah, at a certain point, you're just spinning your wheels. Like you've had the 10th meeting and you're already booking the 11th meeting and you know that the 11th meeting's not gonna have any more impact than the 10th, but you're doing it anyway. So you're saying Brubay's just gotta leave him alone,

let him do his thing? Brubay, sorry. Foot needs to leave, just like Rubé did with Nylander, Foot needs to do the same with Pederson and leave alone. As much as I love the inherent sports talk radio idea of it has to be one or the other. Nylander has a tad more swagger than Ilias Pederson. Yeah, they're different players.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not black and white, but I think it's important to introduce a lot of different layers and facets to it, because I don't think it's as black and white. And to be honest, I've hated the way that this coaching thing has turned out where it's like foot is the anti-pedie guy whereas Manny would have been the pedie guy I'm like like where did that come from? You're just dreaming stuff up at this point you're making it up as you go along to fit some sort of

you know what it is it's like people people look at Manny Mulcher and see it say like he looks like a nice guy probably you know he's a nice guy he's so he'd be nicer to Pederson there's a certain percentage of the fan base that will blame everybody but Pederson that's just that's how they're wired that's how they see it you won't be able to convince them otherwise and Petey can do nothing wrong and he'll be fine. That's fine. But I also think there's so-

That's the way it is. Here's the thing. After last season, whatever approach Tauken and Pedersen had to the job collectively, I think universally everyone can say that it didn't work. If it's a two-pronged approach where both people are equally responsible for the relations, just the relationship, I think it's fair to suggest that whatever approach both of them took collectively and what both brought to the table combined, it didn't work. Pedersen wasn't happy, didn't play well, didn't love his season.

Tocket wasn't happy, didn't love his season and left. That much is fair to say. So hindsight being 20-20, there should have been a different approach at some point. They never found that common ground. And at the end, it's probably not the worst thing that they parted ways in terms of that relationship. No, I agree. I'm starting off somewhere with that.

Adam Foote is gonna have to completely reimagine it then. That's a fair assessment, is that he's gonna have to look at this and say- You should go over to Sweden and be like, you know, I didn't like talk at either. Kind of a jerk. Wasn't a nice guy. Big bully. I'm with you. I'm going to put you on the spot, which is sometimes dangerous,

but you do it all the time. Yeah. Um, why have players like Marner and Matthews been unable to succeed in the pressure moments? They're weak minded. Selfish. Selfish. So I, we didn't get into this with Sam McKee

from fan five 90 in Toronto. We had him on the show in hour one, download the podcast. It's a great show. What do you mean we didn't get into it? That's a question I asked him right off the bat. Let me finish. Let me finish.

We didn't get into this with Sam McKee, fan 590 in Toronto. Download our one of the podcasts if you love Schadenfreude, because it is some great bathing in the tears of the Toronto Maple Leafs. We didn't get into this on their show the other day. They were talking about Marner and I think Matthews more specifically because of his sort of unique route to the National Hockey League. And they said at times it seems as though these guys grew up in a hockey environment where they never played or participated in a big stakes game, that every game, every rep,

everything was always the same, that there was never any highs and never any lows. And you never let the highs get too high and never let the lows get too low. So you always focused on the next game. It's a mentality thing with young athletes. I don't think it's specifically exclusive to Marner and Matthews. But there was always this sense of. Have you ever had to lay it on the line? Have you ever had to get out of your comfort zone? Have you ever

had to do the things that you weren't accustomed to doing to win? Or was it every game was like game 43 of the regular season? We always use the Tuesday night in Columbus, but every game was the same. If you go out and you use all of those classic power of positivity tropes, you stick to your game, you believe in your principles and you go out, you you play the same time, same way, same game, every game, that eventually the process will win out and you'll achieve your goals. The problem with that thinking is that in the playoffs,

that timeframe doesn't exist. There is a time crunch and there is an immediacy that you need to be able to break out of the mold and say, I can't wait for the next game. And the flushing part was really interesting to me. You can't sometimes flushing it isn't the right idea because there needs to be an inherent pressure.

You got to look at what's in the toilet. I believe this is, you have to look at what's in the toilet and learn from it. Yeah. Ooh, corn. Um, I don't know. I didn't have corn. I didn't even have corn. I don't know. Is this a medical issue? I don't know if the approach that these guys have taken through their nine plus years in Toronto was a flawed one from day one, because there is very much a sense of these guys saying,

hey, I'm not gonna let the noise get to me, I'm not gonna let the negativity get me down, I'm not gonna let it permeate my bubble, I'm gonna go and keep doing the things that I do. Have they had great levels of success in the regular season? Unquestionably. had great levels of success in the regular season? Unquestionably. It's a fantastic approach to the regular season, but there's something

different about the playoffs. And I think part of it is the immediacy of it. You have seven games and four wins to decide if you're going on or not. So there's no, well, we'll try again next time. Because eventually the next time runs out. Here's my thoughts. I think. This is why you asked me the question, right? No. So we could get to this point? No. Well, just so I could give my thoughts. Yeah. Oh, I'm curious about your thoughts. Thanks, buddy. Pressure players see big moments as an opportunity. Yeah.

It's excitement. Like they're like, I cannot, this is, this is why we play the game. Non-pressure players see it as a threat. And I think in a place like Toronto, maybe early on, those guys saw it as an opportunity, this is cool. I'm going to play these big games. That's what I dreamed of as a kid. And then when those moments start to pile up, the failures, then it's like threat time.

And this is a threat now. And you're going to do things, you know, I think it's paralyzing. And I think about Rory McElroy, who just completed the career Grand Slam at the majors. And it took a while. And that for me was the definition of these majors as they piled up on top of each other.

Cause remember he hadn't won a major in a decade, which is crazy considering his talent. The moments would come, especially at the Masters, because it was the one he needed to complete the career of Grand Slam, and it was like, oh God, it's the Masters again. Right? Yeah. Now, he finally got over the hump and that was why it was such a big deal. But I think if you ask him, the Masters,

every time it came around, every year, when you can think about that as the playoffs for team, it was like, oh, God, what's going to happen right now? It wasn't like, I can't wait for that because that's my opportunity to show everyone that they're wrong. And even when he did win, there was still criticism, right? Like Bryson DeChambeau was like, you didn't say a word to me on the, on the, you know, and Rory said

the other day is like, yeah, I was trying to win the Masters. Like he was so, he was so focused on that. And I think Rory has been particularly fascinating to observe as a golf fan because he is, um, not only not only ultra talented, right? Phenom kind of like Tiger Woods, but he's also

very open about just what he's going through. And his life is not super consistent. Like early on he was really focused on this live thing and you know, he was really, he spoke out about it. And then he was kind of like, ah, if the Saudi money comes, you know, uh, fine. And then, and now he's just like, I'm not even involved in that stuff.

Like, and he said the other day is like, I don't care. He's not involved in any of the rules community or anything. He just got back to focusing on golf. And I just think, you know, to get back to the whole point of like pressure and you either wanted or you don't. Yeah.

Um, you know, that's a big thing with, okay, we're going to bring it back to Pedersen. Like, does he really want the pressure? Cause he said he wants the pressure, but in order to actually embrace that pressure, you got to go work and you got to go prepare yourself. And sometimes when there's a threat, there's this threat, there's a natural inclination to kind of like avoid things. And I do wonder if last off season, I know there was an injury involved, but I wonder if last off season

It ended so badly after the contract was signed He didn't play well and they were like maybe he'll play better in the playoffs and he didn't right and I think that might have reignited some things with JT Miller and then Elias Pettersson goes back to Sweden for the summer and Put yourself just try and put yourself in his shoes. Isn't there a part of you that would be like, I'm just gonna hide for a bit, you know? I'm just gonna get away from the game. It's like, you know when you had a big test in school and you're like, I should be doing this. And I remember when I had my exams for university,

for some reason, it always came when TBS had the James Bond marathon on. Got to watch it. And I was like, ah, I know I should be studying for this. Like this is really important. I should, I got to be studying for this. I got to graduate.

Yeah. But Moonraker is on again and I would much rather just watch Moonraker than, than actually, actually study because it's a threat. I don't want to think about this exam. It makes me nervous. Yeah. I'm sure that element exists and that's fine.

I don't think that that applies to the leaf situation so much. I think the leaf situation is about expectations and winning and having never done it. Never. I think when the chapter's written, and the Marner chapter could be written as soon as Friday, that could be his last game as a Toronto Maple Leaf, it's going to be about 10 years

of unfulfilled expectation and promise. Because they're gonna look back on it, and they're gonna say, we got to the second round of the playoffs twice. But do you think it got harder as it went along as the failures piled up? Yes. The issue is, and unlike Rory McIlroy, is there was no past experiences in history to suggest that they had the capability of winning. Right. What have they ever done?

The McIlroy story was fantastic because it was this one tournament that he couldn't overcome. But no one was ever doubting that he couldn't win it because he had won every other major. Yeah, it was there was some any close and there was some mental hang up and hurdle with the green jacket and the Masters. With Martin Matthews. The playoffs are it they've never done, they've never done a single thing.

They're going to go down as two of the greatest players to have never advanced to a conference final. Think about that. A conference final. Right? It is wild. Someone texted in, Jason, would you still study

the same way if someone was paying you $11 million? Honestly, maybe. Cause I think that makes the pressure more. Is the 11 million guaranteed? Yeah. Then no. No, I think, I think, I think Pedersen really

cares. I think they need to do a better job working with him and working through whatever he's going through. Well, let's go back to what we talked about in the previous segment then, because that's perfect. And I think what they did last season was like,

can I remember the Simpsons clip where Chief Wiggum is like, I've been poking and prodding at the dogs and. Singing off key. Singing off key. Me me me me me me. And then they attack him, right? Like, I think they were kind of hoping

for Pedersen to do that. By calling these guys out, they were hoping to get the, well, I'll show you response. And instead he just turned his brain off for the summer, didn't do anything? Well, I think he shut down. I think there was some poking and some press, some, there was poking and there was prodding.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is- Like some kids, I mean, I know, and this gets to a bigger issue, by the way. If he reacts like that, maybe he's not the guy, right? And that's fair. But I think you gotta try and motivate players in different ways.

Any parents out here that have kids in sports and they're really excited to play their games because they just love it. They love the game, right? And then if you throw some of them, not all of them, but if you throw any criticism at them and you're like, ah, you didn't do very well on that, you can see that they're like, oh, I don't really like hockey anymore. Like that happens. And I know there are parents that are listening right now that walk a

real fine line because sometimes when you're watching the kids play and they're not doing what you think they should be doing, it will kill you to watch it. But sometimes you just have to let it go because if you make a big deal out of it, one of the things I find in kids hockey that they don't do is they don't move their feet.

Right, gotta move your feet. You gotta move your feet meetings But if you say but if you go out there and you're like you got to try harder like you're not trying hard They're like I don't really like hockey anymore because they're kids and but some adults are like that I've certainly noticed it if you criticize them. They're like shut down. Yeah, I do that You're are you a shut downer? I was kidding a shutter downer a shutter downer Oh, but but going back to what you're saying though like so does that mean that foot should approach? Pederson differently that I think they need to understand them as

Best as they can and not do it just from from their perspective. I've had the right answer the whole time trade them. Yeah Again and I know it sounds really blunt and kind of caustic but I do firmly firmly believe There's too much Residual scarring and damage and that the damage has been done with this team with this market in the room I don't think that the surgical removal of the JT Miller Whatever you want wanna call it, lump, whatever, I don't think that that solved everything. I think that Rutherford talking about it publicly like that

is wildly naive or he's just trying to put a positive spin on it, but you don't just cut something out and then expect everything to go back to normal. It's like surgery, there's rehab, recovery, scarring, there's damage, there's pain, all that stuff. I don't, we have covered this league for a long time. You and I, we've existed in a world where we have heard the term fresh start a thousand times when discussing a trade or a move or anything.

People will often say, sometimes you just need a fresh start. And I don't know why anyone would suggest otherwise with this. I think you're right. I keep coming back to this. I think trading them is a lot harder than you're making it sound. I don't know how many teams are out there that would- No, no, no. I never said that it wasn't hard hard what I'm saying is that every option on the table is difficult None of them are gonna be easy. None of the paths forward but trading them might be an actual non-starter Like might not be an option. You shouldn't have to coddle your star players. No, you shouldn't be a very difficult situation This is what Adam foot is inher inheriting. Difficult.

That should not be the makeup of your team. Your best forward shouldn't have to be treated like a prima donna. Like he should just want to win and want to work hard. Be like Quinn Hughes. I mean, not necessarily be as skilled as Quinn Hughes, because you are, but have that mindset, have that mentality. And I get it's easier said than done because not everyone's wired that way. Hey, Don, it would be so easy to say, hey, have his mindset. And I get it's easier so than done because not everyone's wired that way. Hey, it would be so easy to say like,

hey, have his mindset. Yeah, I know. I get that not everybody's wired that way. It's not just a mindset either. It's a way of living. And the work ethic and all that. I understand that, but if you have identified that you're best forward, cannot do those things,

then you have to move on from them. Because like, how are you going to win with them? Like the same thing's happening in Toronto right now. There was a head coach, there was a head coach in Vancouver. His name rhymed with Brick Bocket. Who? Who decided I can't win with him.

Yeah. So. That's why the trade route is the right route. Yeah. And you're not going to win, and you're not going to win the trade and it's going to suck because you're not going to get back the value that Pedersen would have at the best of his. They've already gone down the road of we're going to take an L on this trade. They did it with one half of the tumultuous in-room relationship that they had.

But at the end of the day, maybe they just don't have a choice. But if that's the case, well they have to do it before July 1st, otherwise it's pretty much impossible. I'm still keeping it in my mind that Pedersen could bounce back next season. There is always that chance.

For sure. For sure. But that's what goes back to me asking, like, well then what's Foot gonna do? Yeah, well, I mean, look, sports is unpredictable. You know? Um, I don't think. But I, but I, but I, but I don't think any of us, I think here's the thing.

None of us know what makes PD tick. No. Like none of us know. And I think the Canucks have been trying to find out all season. And that's, that's the frustrating part where you're like, talking at an interesting remark, it is End of Season press conference.

He's like, I hear all these people say, go out for some beers and just hash it out. And it's like, you don't think we thought of that? I'm sure they've gone through the whole gamut of like, be nice, be mean, funny funny hat day I don't know like and at some point tried inviting more to play some video games and at some point you're just like hey man I'm out of answers the only person and sometimes the best thing to do it really is is, is leave the guy alone.

And he's either going to solve his issues or he's not. But one thing I have learned in my life that I am still trying to learn, you cannot control others. You can't, like I, when I, when I started this in in sports radio I always wanted to be in charge of the show and I wanted this to be done and this to be said and this to happen and at some point like you're just banging your head against the wall trying to make other guys do what you want them to do and you have to leave them alone at some point. Is this about us now? Yeah, here's a trade them.

Hey, hey. In Columbus. And if it doesn't work, you make changes. Yeah. Because you can't make someone into someone who they're not. And people have texted in, I think this is a good point, they want him to be Sidney Crosby, he's not Crosby.

He's not. He's Lee's Patterson. And it's like, bring in a new coach, try and motivate him. Bring in new wingers, maybe that'll motivate him. Play him with Holglinder, aren't they buddies? Get Quinn Hughes to sit down with him. Anyone going through anything, you can help them, but it is 99% down to that person making the decision one day, okay, this is what I'm

going to do. Yeah. Can't control it. It's so frustrating because you want to control the situation and if you're the coach and you're the general manager, you're thinking like, it's my job to control the situation, but you can't. They're going to act the way they're going to act. I'm with you actually.

You're convincing me. Maybe the best thing to do is this time to do nothing because they've tried everything and it hasn't worked. Yeah. It'd just be like, hey, we've set our expectations out for you. It's up to you now. It's up to you now. It's up to you. And if you come back and maybe go out and say that, like if I'm Adam Foote, maybe I was just like, hey, Petey knows the deal. I'm not going to go over and babysit them in Sweden. But you realize the risk with that, right, is that if they do this and it doesn't work,

they can't trade them then at that point because... Yes. So that is the risk. It's... Like they haven't told July 1st... The risk is already there, man. Yeah, I know, but I'm saying they haven't told July 1st to decide exactly what they're going to do.

Yeah. And after that, that's it. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.