Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 5/7/26

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, plus they discuss the latest 'Nucks news with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Boys, Ack could get it out in front, they score. And the Ducks score the first goal of game two. Here's Byram right up the middle of the shots. Go! Who's Bobo, sir? Bobo?

Bobo? I meant Lobo. Sheriff Lobo, they never should have canceled that show. Good morning, Vancouver. 6 o'clock on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. It is Halford and his Brough. It is Sportsnet, 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studios,

a beautiful Mount Pleasant in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adon, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Brought for the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates.

They're open seven days a week and open late to help you get debt free. With no judgment or upfront fees, visit them today. It's sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle. You get paid.

Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming live from the Kintech studio. Step Strong with orthotics and footwear from Kintech. If you want to text into the show today, the Dunbar Lumber text line is 650, 650, trusted by contractors and DIY champions across Metro Vancouver for General find them at three convenient locations or visit Dunbar Lumber online today. We will go now to our morning guest list. It's a Duick morning drive brought to you by the Duick Auto Group.

It begins at 7 o'clock this morning. Adnan, Verk is going to join the program from MLB Network. Tough times for the Jays right now. Mired in a four game losing street got swept in Tampa Bay. But it might be okay, Laddie, because the American League is so very bad right now. Just two teams over 500. You're going to discuss what the heck is going on with Adnan.

That'll be coming up. at 7 o'clock. 7.30, Eric Engels is going to join the program. Montreal Canadiens Beat Reporter for SportsNet. Montreal opened its second round series with the Sabres last night in Buffalo, a 4-2 loss.

What was a big night for local boy, Zach Benson? Did you know Zach Benson's family or carnival folk? What? Yeah, they own or they own, I don't know if they still do, West Coast Amusements,

which is a company which rents carnival gear to local, like, fairs and county fairs and things like that. I don't know what to say to that. Zach Benson. He did the bearded lady thing for a while. Zach Benson used to do mini donuts. That was his job.

True story. How could you not just like overload yourself with mini donuts if you're working the mini donuts stand? He knew one for me. One for me. He knew one day he'd be a playoff hero and he did not eat the donuts. So what went wrong for the HABS last night? What did they need to do to bounce back in game two?

We'll talk to Eric Engels about that at 7.30. 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance from the athletic bank. Vancouver and Canucks Talk is going to join the show. We can talk about the Canucks, lack of lottery luck. Jim Rutherford stepping down. Who's going to be the next general manager? All these Caducs convos and more. That'll be at 8 a.m. with Thomas Strance.

That's the guest list. That's what's happening. So without further ado, Laddy, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was.

We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies, investment tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.ca.ca. We're actually going to start today's show with the Vancouver Whitecaps. And there was some pretty interesting news that came out of Victoria yesterday.

BC jobs ministers at Ravi A Calan said that the provincial government has been approached by a local group that has expressed interest in purchasing the, Vancouver Whitecaps. Why do they approach the government instead of, do you think they approach the team? Well, that's interesting now, isn't it? It'd be nice if they approach the team. Because the other bid for the Vancouver Whitecaps,

as you all may well know, is a group out of Las Vegas, who of course went through more normal channels, i.e. Major League Soccer, in announcing its intention to bid on the Vancouver Whitecaps. This one came out of, again, Victoria, courtesy the jobs minister.

So it led to a lot of different speculation, partly because of where the sourcing came from, but also because said source, Ravi Cowan, didn't have a ton of other details when describing this yesterday. Yeah, he said the bid so far seems interesting. It seems like it's grounded in a plan to keep the team here. I don't want to get my hopes up, but at least it's something, right? I mean, we hope it's a legitimate,

bid that is first of all has a plan to keep the white caps in Vancouver because Axel Schuster himself said there's been a bunch of groups that have approached the white caps and he said you know none of them likes the books you know they none of them

none of them see it differently than the white caps currently see it in that you know it's a problem right now for them playing at BC Place and the hope I have is that it's not some group that's looking to low ball the white caps and maybe sees an opportunity to slide a bit under there that in no way is going to satisfy the current white caps owner but maybe if MLS is very insistent on the white caps staying in Vancouver and maybe they are thinking that they can get this across the plate I I don't know I again I don't

want to get my hopes up, but at least it's something because the White Caps and we, as fans of the White Caps, needed somebody to step up and actually put a bid forward. And I bet Axel Schuster would like it too

because he was put up in front of the media yesterday. And did he have anything new to add? Why was Axel talking yesterday? Well, for fans that were hoping for any sort of update, honestly, positive or negative, just something.

They left disappointed yesterday because Axel didn't have a lot of new news. And a matter of fact, they have any news period for people. I had the feeling that the club was under such intense pressure to have a senior official and a front-facing official speak publicly that they just sort of appeased the masses yesterday by putting sporting director, CEO, Axel Schuster out there. You know, Axel did say that right now, BC Place is their first and prime. option because it will be the home of the white caps

for the foreseeable future. Now the memorandum of understanding at the P&E grounds is still, I guess for lack of a better term, active. It expires at the end of 2026. It doesn't seem like anyone's done anything there. Because they need a buyer first and foremost for the team. It's

almost like, you know, well, it's great that you've got a place to build the stadium. How about an owner that owns the team that wants to build the stadium? And they're not at that stage yet. So this is why there's been, a sort of pivot in discussions back to BC place when I think a lot of people when the MOU was first signed automatically zeroed in on oh, the future at the P&E.

Now, I'll say this. Just a couple more notes on what Ravi Collin did have to say yesterday. He said that this interested group was going to unveil itself sooner rather than later and that he wasn't in a position to do that. He also said that they reached out to the provincial government when putting their bid together and did not seek any help from the province. Now, the only thing I'm wondering is that

is this sort of unique path to communication have anything to do with BC Place. Yeah. Like, do they want to buy BC Place? Or do they want to be the people who spearhead a more favorable operational plan? Like what we've seen, the Sounders in Seattle or TFC at BMO, where they become the primary operator.

I mean, have the white caps not been trying to do that? I don't know if the white caps could do it into the current form. Like, I just, I don't know. The thing that's complicated about the white caps right now is that they've got an ownership group that would very much like to cash out right now. Yeah. That's the clear, you know, M.O. from

Kerfut to, you know, the other two co-owners, Mallet and Nash, is this is their time to cash in on what some people have called a Ponzi scheme. Well, Greg and Pitt Meadows text in. He says, Jason, I think you have it backwards, possibly. I think the current ownership group is actually willing to accept a lower bid that keeps the team in town. It's MLS that will want a higher bid in order to keep club values high. Possibly, or maybe we both have it wrong in that neither the ownership group or MLS will accept a lower bid.

Right. If you're the Whitecaps current ownership group, yeah, you want to keep the team in Vancouver. You also want to cash out and make something off of your investment because I know that you didn't pay much to get the expansion fee. But if you believe what they've been saying, they've been losing millions every year. And they want to recoup that. Yeah. I will say this. I firmly believe that MLS, if they were pressed for a decision right now and it was a very simple, like, would you prefer the team stay in Vancouver, leave?

They would want it to stay. Of course. Relocation isn't good for a league. ever. And they can get expansion fees for Vegas. You never want you never want to leave a smoldering mess behind in a market if you're a league. It's the reason that

Batman held on to, I mean there's a lot of reasons why Batman held on to Arizona, but one of them was like he wanted to make it work and he went above and beyond trying to make it work. And also his massive ego. There was that too. Yeah. No question. But Vancouver is a good market. Yes. And I think they know that. And it's going to be a World Cup host city.

And it doesn't look good for the league. Not at all. Not at all. So I guess we'll wait and see on that. On to the other local team in Vancouver, Jim Rutherford spoke further with SportsNets, Ian McIntyre about his upcoming exit from the Vancouver Canucks said he's stepping down because he wants to be closer to family in Raleigh. So he's going back to North Carolina.

and he wants to reduce his daily responsibilities. Now, I said his exit from the team, more like his exit from the role of president of hockey ops, because he says for now, he'll remain an advisor and an alternate governor. He acknowledged mistakes during Vancouver's rebuild, but, or just during his time here, but believes the Canucks now have some promising young players

and direction. Now, about his exit from the role of president of hockey ops, and, you know, all the things that we've been wondering what's going to happen with this team, are you really starting to wonder what's going on behind the scenes at Rogers Arena? Starting to. Like, you know, I listened to Kevin Woodley on the station yesterday, and he was hinting at maybe some power dynamics. changing in the upper echelons of the Vancouver Canucks.

I don't know anything about that, but Woodley was hinting at it. And, you know, during this whole thing where they've been looking for a general manager, you know, you hear that Jim Rutherford wants Ryan Johnson. Okay. But we've also heard that ownership isn't so sure about Ryan Johnson

and maybe wants an experienced general manager. and we're wondering like, okay, well, like, who wants what? You know, like who is, and we hear about what, four or five different people interviewing these candidates. Like, okay, who are those candidates? Are they all aligned or do some people want different things? I mean, I don't know if that, you remember what we were talking about, like, three different lists that were going around. Now, I don't know if that was, that was a real thing or just. some confusion in the reporting,

but like, how much influence does Rutherford still have? And how much more influence is he going to have once he departs after the draft? Another great question, because if they only hire a general manager and Jim Rutherford is still around as an advisor,

is he just going to be like, well, you can call me if you want. I'll be like drinking lemonade on my porch back in Raleigh. An Arnold Palmer, perhaps. You know, or is he going to have influence because the general manager sees him as, you know, well, this guy's still here. He's the alternate governor. And, you know, maybe he still got some influence on the team.

Maybe he was the one if it's Ryan Johnson. You know, Jim Rutherford will have pushed for him to get the job. speaking of Ryan Johnson, who is running the day-to-day operations of the team right now? According to Dollywall, Ryan Johnson is going to run the scouting meetings. Yeah, saw that. That's going to be awkward if they don't pick him as the next general manager.

And also according to Dollywall, there could be big changes to the scouting group soon. Now, is that where someone like Martin Madden could come in? And we talked about him yesterday, and Elliot Friedman talked about him on the 30. Thoughts guy, 32 Thoughts podcast. He's the 32 Thoughts guy. Yeah, yeah. Martin is with the Anaheim Ducks. Currently, he's their director of amateur scouting. And he's a guy that, you know, Elliot said maybe he's a candidate for the GM job. Now, Elliot also said that,

you know, Martin Madden has kept kind of a low profile and maybe intentionally so. Maybe that's the way he likes it. Well, if he comes to Vancouver, are you going to put this guy who wants to keep a profile as the front facing guy. Those two things don't jive. You know, it's just, there's, it's, it's actually hard to keep it all together. You know, I have to write all this stuff down for a reason because there's names flying around, there's rolls flying around. We really don't know what's going to happen.

But Rutherford said something interesting yesterday in his interview with Ian McIntyre. He said, I think when it all plays out, people will understand. Yeah. And I was like, I saw that too. Okay. That's interesting. Like, are we all going to be slightly ominous? No, I think, I think it is kind of ominous.

It is ominous. People will understand. You'll understand. Once it's done, you'll understand. Right. And then, but will we get to next week and we'll be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Or will we get to next week and be like, how's this going to work? Because the, how's this going to work is what happened in Toronto.

even after they introduced Chica and Matt Sundin, it was like, okay, well, wait a minute, who's reporting to who? And what happens in this situation? What happens in this situation? You know, I mean, they were like, yeah, Matt Sundin, he didn't even know his title when he signed on. It's like, are you bragging about that?

Like, you should, you guys should know about this sort of stuff. You need to know the structure. You need to know the hierarchy. You know, you need to know who's got the final say. and this sort of stuff because, you know, eventually that sort of stuff will come to a head. And I think we're really wondering the structure in Vancouver. It's just everything that's going on with this team right now. Yeah, it was funny that you framed it as are you starting to feel this way?

Are you starting to question what's going on behind the scenes? And I was like, starting to. I mean, lest we forget that just over a month ago, the athletic released its player agent poll in which the Canucks were a decided winner, and I don't know if winner's the right phrase, but the decided winner of the vote for worst run NHL franchise. And here's the

thing. Came as no surprise to anybody. Yeah. Because there's been a constant dysfunction around this team, but even just look at the last year, you finish dead last and 32nd in the NHL by a mile.

You're the worst team on the ice. So your product on the ice is the worst in the NHL. You don't have a practice facility and by the way, is one of Rutherford's legacies here going to be that he came in, promised that he was going to get it done, and then left before it got done? That hasn't been asked yet. I don't know of being the alternate governor allows you

to work on some construction in Vancouver while you're living in Raleigh. But again, don't have a practice facility. He's also the alternate drywall guy. Seriously. I don't know how that works. You know, one of the quotes from one of the agents in the athletic piece was they really don't have the infrastructure that players need to remove

excuses. And that was almost a direct shot at, I think, the practice facility issue. Well, never mind. Go back even earlier. Midseason, you're forced to trade your captain because he doesn't want to be here anymore. Prior to that, your head coach who had won the Jack Adams not too previously to that

wanted to leave because he didn't trust the future of the team. So when all of these things happen, you have to look at the highest reaches of the organization and say, what's going on here that is, is one, allowing this dysfunction to continue, and two, and most importantly, not putting a stop to it. Now, putting a stop to it right here is the removal of Patrick Alvin

and the stepping down of Jim Rutherford. You would hope. But whoever comes into this job has a lot of mess to clean up. And coming into this job has probably gone through an exhaustive job search and interview process where they're like, man, this was elaborate. a lot of this played out in public. The 24 hours in which Pierre Dorian went from being one of the leading

candidates for general manager to vilified online. That was certainly a moment. I almost felt bad for Pierre Dorian in his situation. Yeah. Maybe some of the stuff in Ottawa. Yeah, it was his fault. But that's and then all of a sudden you start peeling back the layers of well, how did that happen? Why did that get leaked to the media?

Who leaked it? Yeah. What was the reason for the leak happening? And you get back to this thing. Do you remember when we were like, are the Kinnock's clueless or is someone trying to trick us? I mean, that's, that's what's kind of has been wrought in all this,

in all this. By the way, I wanted to add to your great point about the agents, it's like another complaint that we'd heard is that they call up the Kinnock's, another GM calls up the Kinnocks or maybe an agent. It's like, who's in charge here? And you didn't know.

you know is it is it is patrick alvin the general manager is or is is jim bouncing back and taking things over again even just the lv they can't have that they can't have that situation there needs to be clear roles clear reporting orders and a clear power structure speaking of alveen there's no clarity on what his position is with the team oh yeah that guy i thought he was fired but apparently it wasn't he was just offered a very public demotion he's not fired he's not fired he's not still hired. He's a weird third thing. You're not the general manager. You're not the general manager anymore. That much is clear.

So you can't get into the upper reaches of the building with your past key anymore. However, you can still access the parking garage and parts of the building because we might want to keep you around in a scouting, you know, facilities. So I, hey, what about all these potential changes to the scouting group, which I imagine even could involve Patrick Alvin, potentially? Wouldn't that be his role if they were to bring? them back. Like, maybe they're not expecting them to come back to the organization.

I'm certainly not. But if Dollywall is hinting at big changes to the scouting group, I would like them to chop chop on that because they have a pretty big draft coming up. And Jim Rutherford was the guy who said, if our staff nails the three or four picks that we've got in the top 41, this could be a real game changer for the Canucks. You know what would be really important is to have a staff. Well, I will say this.

About the scouting staffs, there's sort of this common knowledge, one of those unspoken and unsavory parts of the National Hockey League. And I remember this from when we used to be on the road for the drafts, is that a lot of teams will turf their scouting department the moment the final pick is made in the second day of the NHL draft. Sure. Because guess when your scouting staff is least valuable to you,

the moment the draft ends. Yeah, yeah. You know, they always have those dinners after the first night of the draft. and it's kind of like the last supper for the scouting department. So they ordered the good wine and the expensive stakes. So what the Canucks might be doing there is just what is pretty commonplace in the NHL. It isn't uns, when I heard about it at first, I'm like, really? Yeah, but are they saying they don't have confidence in the scouting group heading into this very important draft?

No, but oftentimes the contracts end at that same time. So I wonder if Rick is sort of correlating a common NHL practice with what the Canucks might do. soon as the draft is over. But you get what I'm saying, right? Like if the contracts are up and they're like, we got to get rid of these guys. But first, this very important draft. Yeah. Which we're doing the draft. You're like, thank you all for your hard work. Try the veal. That sort of thing. But who know? I mean, I don't know what that entails. Hey, maybe next week, like Rutherford says, we'll be like, huh, we do understand. It all made sense. That is an unbelievable process that the Kinex just went through and they nailed it.

You know, I'll also add this. When you interview as many people as the Canucks have interviewed, a lot of information is going to get out. Because a lot of the interviewees, they're not beholden to the Canucks. If you're on a Zoom for a couple hours with, you know, whatever ex-member of the Canucks front office, you're probably going to get off the Zoom and then go tell some people what you talked about. I mean, there's confidentiality, but only to a certain degree.

Yeah. And this is the danger of having this open and transparent to search is, there's going to be a lot of information that gets out. And a lot of your candidates, the names are going to get out there, and a lot of information is going to be inferred. Sometimes you can't win. Sometimes you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. I think some of that might apply to the Canucks,

but a lot of the messes that have happened they've made and now they're forced to clean them up. Like, for example, you know, this past week has been a wild one where we got the Dorian news and that kind of overshadowed the fact that a couple of other candidates, including you mentioned, and Madden and Frege mentioned Scott White, the assistant GM in Dallas.

Like they came late to the party. They were interviews that happened within the last 72 to 96 hours indicating that this search for the Kinecks is still very much on. Yeah. Like I'm not sure how close they are to a decision. Yeah. Jim Rutherford only said we hopefully will have a decision by next week. Yeah.

Like I think that this process is still very much underway. And we don't know if they're going to hire just a general manager and then that general manager would report to a guess ownership or are they going to hire a buffer of sorts? Are they going to hire a president that can kind of let the general manager do his own thing while handling the you know the the needs of ownership? What are they going to do here? I wonder if this now outgoing regime of Rutherford and Alvin will give the organization pause like do we want to do this again. Do we want to have the president of hockey ops

and a general manager and then two assistant general managers? Because it, at times, there's a crowd of front office. And as you pointed out on a couple occasions in this opening segment, teams would call up and be like, so who's in charge? Right. Who do I talk to? Yeah. And then, you know, the switchboard operator would be like, if you

have a minor deal you'd like, you don't press one for Patrick Albion. But functional. If you'd like to talk about Quinn Hughes, please press two for Jim Rutherford. But functional teams will, like, they could do that. And it's just everyone knows. Sure, yeah, yeah. Like, sure.

You call this guy for this stuff, right? And that's what the switchboard is there for. Functional teams know how to do that. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. From the athletic Vancouver and Kinnockstock, Thomas Drans, the Dranser here on the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. Morning.

Thomas, how are you? Gentlemen, good morning. Good morning. There's so many things to unpack that have happened. in the last 24, 48 hours. I think we want to start, though, with Jim Rutherford's announcement that he's stepping down from his role

as president of hockey ops, and we'll be moving into an advisory role, and I guess alternate governor role as well. He mentioned this in his pre-draft lottery presser, followed up with an interview with Ian McIntyre. Any big takeaways here, Drance, on Jim Rutherford's stepping down as poho? Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's a huge change.

He's going to be very much less involved with the day to day. It's not clear. In fact, it seems he's not going to remain in Vancouver, both from what he told Ian McIntyre and from what I hear. And, yeah, I mean, I think this is, you know, this is regime change, like full regime change, right, in that Alvin is already gone. And Jim Rutherford is going at some undeterminate time. and the fate of Adam Foote, the next head, you know, will be determined by the next general manager

and presumably the next leader of hockey operations, whatever sort of shape that takes. I mean, that's full regime change. That's a full house cleaning. And we should remember it that way or look at it that way, given that it's happened gradually, right? It wasn't done immediately at the end of the season. But following a 32nd play season, the Canucks are better than even money. I mean, I would say favored at this point to enter next year with a new president of hockey operations, a new general manager, and we'll see about the coach, but I would still expect changes there. And so that's, I think, the biggest takeaway is that, you know, in the wake of the season, Alvin was dismissed, but that was kind of it.

And that seemed, I think, surprising to those of us that had watched it unfold. And yet, you know, I think by the time we get to June, most likely this will have been a full house cleaning. And I think that's understandable, given the rupture that this season represented and the fact that it sort of marks a change in direction, a change in franchise direction, that includes the club actively rebuilding and accepting that they're rebuilding in real terms. How much influence do you think Jim Rutherford still has and how much do you think he's had during this GM search? I think his influence has still been significant. And I think the extent of it, like I'd like to hold off on judging the extent of it until I see who the new general manager is. I think the GM pick will probably speak volumes. Specifically, you know, if it is Ryan Johnson and some experienced hand being brought in as a president, then I will have said that Jim Rutherford's fingerprints are all over it.

Yeah. If it's someone like Evan Gold, I would say, that's a sign of diminished influence for Jim Rutherford within the organization. Right? I mean, that's like, let's see. Why Evan Gold and just because, have you heard that Jim Rutherford is not an Evan Gold guy? No, no, no, no.

Not that. I'm just saying if it's someone less experienced a little more new age, that would feel to me like a sign of change. That would feel to me like decision out of line with how Rutherford has operated. Right? So it's more, you know,

it's not me pretending that I'm like, Well, on that one, that's the guy on Dax Akelyne's list. Like, I'm not doing that game. I'm just sort of saying that would be something different. And if it's something different, that would mark to me that Jim Rutherford's influence has not been as

seriously felt. Have you heard anything about a, and this is something Kevin Woodley was kind of hinting at. I don't want to call it a power struggle, but just different dynamics in the Kinnock's organization right at the top? Yeah. I mean, I think

inevitably, when the team finishes 30 seconds, you're going to have different opinions of what to do next. And so I do think that there's an element of that. You know, power struggle, viper's nest, multiple lists. Yeah, there have been whispers about different views of what direction this franchise should take going forward. We know that Dax Ackleini has been part of the interview. process actively.

So that also, I think, speaks to, you know, perhaps changes even in the ownership suite, right? I mean, forget sort of any front line being drawn between Rutherford and Michael Doyle, the president of business ops and hockey ops, but also, you know, potentially multiple ownership representatives being involved in this, right? I mean, you put four or five people in and the Canucks will say this has been a collaborative process with lots of people involved. And that might be true to some extent, but that has accompanied at least some organizational

or some whispers from without the organization about who exactly has their hand on the wheel. And that's why, you know, I think this general manager search is going to tell us a lot, right? Like, is it, does it feel continuous? Does it feel of a piece with what we've seen during the Rutherford era? or does it feel like something even newer than that? And if it does, you know, why? And who was the power broker? Who had the final say?

Who was the decision maker that made that happen? I think that's going to be an active question and something to unpack for sure. I think I'm going to have to go rewatch succession to get a handle on what's going on with the Vancouver Canucks. Not the worst idea. Why did you read that book twice? Trancer, we were talking about this earlier in the show,

and I know the Canucks haven't established who's going to be their general manager, who's going to lead their hockey ops, but they're going to be faced with decisions like, do you call up Anaheim and ask about Mason McTavish, or do you call Seattle and ask about Shane Wright, or the Rangers with Lafranier? Where are you on these types of moves in the Canucks rebuild Halford is very out on them

and I think it's just based on experience like he doesn't want to see the Canucks go pick up someone else Yeah the age gap And I think we're all a little bit scarred by the age gap As we should be era

Are any of those guys of interest Or to you Should they be of interest to the Canucks? They're of interest to me as by lows But they're not of interest to me as go pay the premium required, right? And that's the key here. There's a lot of talk about building through the draft,

and there should be, because the Canucks have struggled to do so, not just because they've picked in ways that you can absolutely backseat drive and second guess, or honestly, in the case of a lot of their picks across the last six years, picks that I've been frustrated by as we saw them occur, but you can't really fairly analyze

like the work of Todd Harvey and company without noting how few picks they've had. Right? Like how rarely the Canucks have like picked in the second round at all or how rarely they've picked in the second round and the first round and the third all in the same graph. Yeah, you might even call it ridiculous. The volume has not been there for us to fairly say

that this is solely on the work of the amateur scouting staff even if I like think that more. One issue that they've had is going for athletic profiles too early, right? And then going for hockey profiles too late. By which I mean, like, Yermot was more athletic than Sortif. Volander was more athletic than Benson. Klymovich was more athletic than Stancovin. Right.

So in the second and third round in the first round, right, they've been like, let's take the Tulsie guy. He projects, right? And it's like, just take the good hockey player. When there's good hockey players still left on the board. and then later on in the draft you get you know the time euler type picks and it's like i'd rather see you guys swing for athletic profiles once the really good hockey players are off the board right so it's like they've almost had that balance wrong that would be my global criticism of the picks themselves

but again the bigger problem is that they haven't picked enough they haven't picked enough they haven't valued maximizing kicks at the can yes to get sort of the highest upside bets that you can place in the game which are draft picks right and there's a lot of the same you can place in the game which are draft picks right And there's been an arrogance to it that they don't need them because they've got such a keen eye. And I feel like we're seeing that play out with this upcoming draft. And Jim Rutherford making comments like if the staff can nail our first three or four picks, it's like, okay. I mean, I hope they do.

But I hope you're not. I know, but I hope you're not assuming that as soon as you make those picks, you've got your foundation and you're ready to roll. It's going to take years of this. It's going to take a long time. And yeah, so I mean, yes, it's going to take a long time. It's going to take longer than the organization is prepared for, I would say. Like, as disappointing as the draft lottery results were this week,

the truth is that they'll be there again. But I want to come back to draft picks and people saying there's nothing guaranteed with draft picks, right? And that's true, of course. but if you buy Mason McTavish, right? Your best case scenario is that you get a top six forward out of it, right? Yeah. But we already have seen enough, like Mason McTavish, when he was drafted at third overall, there were already concerns about his skating speed, right?

Yeah. Can he stay at center, right? Now he's what, 22, 23, and he's legit one of the slowest skaters in the league. Like that's just not changing. now, right? That's not changing now. You know, like when you're 18, that might change. Yeah, even Mitchcock is blowing past him.

Well, Mitchkov at least, Mishkov doesn't separate, but at least he's got that East West stuff. Whereas, like, McTavish is going to have to survive as like a down low Tanner Pearson style, you know, um, yeah,

below the hash marks. Jack Skilly just came to mind. Jack Skilly. Right. And by the way, he can do it. Yeah, yeah. He's a big body. He works hard. He's super skilled. Like, he's sick.

I'm not against Mason McTavish being a really good impact player at the NHL level, but it's not going to be most likely as a first line center. Like that outcome is off the table a little bit, right? Like the upside there is not significant. So if you acquire him and you pay the price to acquire him, there's still a chance that he provides value, right? But the value that he provides is unlikely to be exponential, right? you very rarely get this sort of like, well, this thing was worth two cents and is now worth

75 cents, right? It's more like this thing is worth 50 cents and if everything breaks right, it's worth 75, right? That's a very different equation. I feel like the J.T. Miller trade is a good example where the Canucks pay 90 cents on the dollar for a dollar. He becomes a hundred point two-way center, which is absolutely not what he was acquired as, right? He was acquired as a second line winger. So you've probably added 50 cents. And then they traded him and they probably got a buck 25, buck 30 on the dollar. Right. Okay. That's awesome. You've added 35 cents to your portfolio, right? But if you draft in the, you know, late first or early second, like if you draft Fraser Mitten, right, and he becomes, he goes from being the 37th pick or the 43rd pick or whatever he was

to being a legit top six NHL center who's 21 and cost controlled, you've gone from a, 15 cent asset to a $2 $2 asset, right? Like that's, and those are the gains that you need to make when you are in 32nd and need to out accumulate 31 other NHL teams across the next five years, right? Like that's, you need to have those draft picks, not because you need to build your team with them, but because you need to rehabilitate the assets that you have so that you can pounce on opportunities and improve your team on the trade market.

Like teams aren't built through the draft. but wealth is built through the draft, right? The assets you need to improve are built through the draft. The Minnesota Wild are a really good example with the Quinn Hughes trade. Like we're kind of living through it where they made a huge volume of picks, partly because they were trying to manage that Perise, Ryan Suter, buyout, crunch. Yeah. And then, you know, Ogren, it's not a perfect pick, but he's something.

Marco Rossi, he's not a star, but he's valuable, right? William, he's trending well, right? And boom, you have a lot of value in-house to pounce on the unique opportunities that come around. And there's going to be unique opportunities that come around, right? And by the way, there's going to be unique opportunities four or five years down the line with players that are probably pretty eager to sign and play in Vancouver, right? I mean, Badard's Celebrini are obviously the headliners there, but it's also wood. And, you know, a variety of these guys, Benson. It's a variety of these guys who grew up locally, a golden era of hockey.

coming from Western Canada, right? That's four or five years down the line. And it's like the time to make those deals where you're buying Winnow players are once you've turned a bunch of pennies into a bunch of quarters. And that's the focus for the next few years. That's what you build through the draft.

You build a baseline of wealth through which you can problem solve and team build. Because right now the Canucks have like a combined like 10 bucks in their checking account. They have no savings. They have no RRSP. They have no TFSA.

they have no investment portfolio, right? And so this is what the Connucks are trying to do. They've got a little bit of crypto, but they forgot the password. Yeah. And also is crypto, right? Meanwhile, the Anaheim Ducks have loaded up on rare charzards, and they're killing it. And so this is where the Connux are at,

and the draft is where that wealth accumulation starts, and that must be the focus. Like, that has to be the focus. That's why picks have to be the focus, right? And I guess I'd only add this is like, the Canucks do have some toys. They do have some boats and some cars, right? Like, this is the product of living large and beyond your means. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, they have a jet ski in the driveway. Yeah. And they might have a private jet in Philopronic, right? But like, the time to sell your Lear jet is before it's 10 years old, 15 years old, right? Like, that's the other part of this. And that's the other part of this that I don't think they're really prepared to account for. Like even what we saw toward the end of the season there, gentlemen, right? Like, there's an organizational narrative, one that is believed at the highest levels.

That, you know, because their young guys sort of seized control of the room and because the vibes were better down the stretch. That the veteran players have bought into being mentors and that the locker room is fixed. And by the way, that might be true. It felt true to be around the team. I don't care at all. I just care that this organization is clear-eyed in viewing even guys like Heronic, not as like future pieces of the next great Canucks team,

but as depreciating assets that they need to manage in a certain way to maximize their future values. Same goes for Marcus Patterson. Same goes for Jake DeBress. Same goes for early as Patterson. Like all of these guys, even if they bounce back, same, by the way, same goes for Marco Rossi, right? Like, even if Marco Rossi...

I'm so serious. I know. Markle Rossi becomes like a quality second line center. He's two years out from getting paid, right? By the time you pay him on a five, six year deal, right? He's probably an inefficient contract by the time you built the next core. Do you think anyone in the organization does or will think of the Rossi? or like an investment portfolio,

kind of like you're doing right now? I don't know how you can't, because this is how the best teams in hockey are now thinking of it. I would tell you this, like when you look at the investment portfolio managed by Pierre Dorian, right? Yeah.

The fact that he's getting to the last round of interviews. Oh, very seriously, right? I mean, 25-year-old Eric Carlson, 23-year-old Mark Stone, 22-year-old Mika's advantage at, right? And then you make the playoffs once, in your first year as general manager, very Jim Benning coded,

and then never again before you're fired. It's like... Yeah, it's not great. Do you remember when you traded for Derek Brassard? Didn't he give a Zabanaged for that? Yep. Yeah, Zabandage it and a second. He topped it up.

Yikes. No, they were a goal away from the Stanley Cup final. So it did work as a win now move, but the cost was obviously too high given the age of his core. Yeah. Right? Anyway, my point is, is do I think anyone in the organization will think about it this way?

No, but I hope they find someone who will, right? Like, I mean, you'd have to think guys like Evan Gold would, right? You'd have to think that guys like Martin Madden Jr. would, right? You'd have to think that guys like Ryan Johnson would. So, I mean, I just think it's so important that this organization really processes how little they have, right? and sort of accepts the nothing of it all and then goes about solving that as an intellectual challenge. How do we go from last in the league with very little of value

to out accumulating 31 NHL teams to the point that we pass them, even though the San Jose sharks who have 14 more wins than us are in the division, have a kid that looks like he's the next Cid, right? And are picking ahead of us now. Yeah. It's 28 points clear yet somehow drafting ahead of us. How do we out-accumulate that team over the next six years? And it's like, you got to be bad.

You got to be bad and you've got to hope they screw up. And it's like, that's it. Like that's, you have to be willing to be bad. You have to accumulate futures. You cannot possibly waste anything of value that you have on the roster in terms of accumulating those futures. You cannot make sentimental hockey-focused decisions right now. Everything is value. Everything is future.

And I want the club to identify a leader who sees that in a clear-eyed way, can communicate it to the market and can manage ownership on exactly what they're doing and sell that vision. Because like selling that vision to the market's important. There's a gate-driven business. But selling that vision up the line seems to be way more important given this organization's issues. God, this just just seems so important. Such an important decision. Like, are we going to keep doing what we've been doing for a while? Are we going to change it up?

And I think I understand why you had the reaction that you did when you learned that, wait a minute, Pierre Dorian might be a legit candidate here. I mean, he was. He was a legit candidate. Like there's nothing else to it. And yeah, I had a very harsh reaction because I can't do this again. I mean, honestly, I'm not a fan of this team, but I am someone who struggles.

I don't know if you guys know this about me, to suffer fools, right? like I struggle with that. I'm actually worried that you're going to get a concussion from banging your head against the wall. Yeah. I'm also worried about the wall because I've seen your head. Too big concerns. My size eight ball cap that my wife prefers to as a melon.

Yeah. No, like I just don't, I don't want for myself and I don't want for Canucks fans more. of what we've dealt with, right? Like, I can't do another five years anticipating stupidity, right? Like, I don't want to be analyzing a team where one of the baseline assumptions that I'm working through, I'm like, this would be a smart way to approach this. But I know the Canucks won't do that.

So this is probably what will happen, right? Like, I don't want that. We end up doing that on our show. I'd love to be covering a team where I'm like, this would be a smart way of doing it. And then they find a solution that's smarter than what I'd imagined. Like that's what I, you know, that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking to be surprised every now and then. And there's people in this league that can make it happen.

And there's some of those people, I think the Canucks have spoken with. I think there's some of those folks who the club has left on the sidelines of this process, which, you know, is somewhat concerning. Let's hope they land on someone who can do that, can communicate it to the market and far more importantly can sell it up the line. I got to, I got to tell you, man. I am growingly concerned with all these little Easter eggs that Rutherford and everyone else keeps putting out there about how we did have that one candidate that told us we might be through the toughest part of the rebuild

or you know we had this other guy we talked to who said that the dark days. Did you ask him if he was insane? Yeah, the dark days might be over. And he keeps putting him out there as if to say like I'm not alone in this vision. Yeah. And I don't know if Easter eggs is the right.

Doesn't that feel like managing up? No, it feels like I think they genuinely believe it at certain levels. and all they're waiting for is someone else to validate their feelings. So what I've heard, what I've heard is the candidates have been informed that the club is very much prepared to be top five in the NHL draft lottery for at least a couple more years. That's like well accepted.

That's good. The other thing that I would sort of suggest to you is that when the club is discussing rock bottom, as Jim Rutherford did, right? Yeah. part of what they mean is this idea of like tolerating the level of confusion and disorganization that Canucks fans were treated to night to night this past year. Okay, I was wondering about that.

Yeah, okay, okay, good. This idea of like explicitly tanking, right? And, you know, by that the club means, let's just get through the season with the top lottery odds. We're not going to worry too much about the fact that every seam is open every time an opponent comes into our room, or end of the ice. That era, what he's saying is like,

that era is done. That's rock bottom. Like, rock bottom is painful to watch. Yeah. That we can't have anymore. Disfunction, essentially.

Disfunction. And dysfunction behind the scenes, too. Like, that's over. We're going to have team feeling. We're going to play organized hockey. You know, we're not going to allow the bus to crash

with the same level of, acceptance that we did this past season. That's what he meets. And so that's fine to an extent, although I still think there's going to be a lot of years over the balance of this decade, where the club's best interests are going to require the team to make tough decisions in a way they haven't

characteristically done at the deadline and then allowing the bus to crash in the last quarter of the season. Like that's coming then. Like I don't know what else to say. Like this is where this team has landed. And there will be a lot more seasons that involved the club needing to make that decision willingly. But at the very least, from a planning perspective, the club wants to be more ethical in the way that they end up at the bottom of the standing going forward. And that's fine by me because I thought this was a really unique year from the perspective of it looking like nobody knew what to do on the ice most nights.

Drancer, great hit, buddy. Hang in there. Cheers, boys. Thomas Trance from the Athletic Vancouver and Kinnockstock here on the Halford & Brough show on Sports Night 650. You're listening to The Best of Halford and Brough.