Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 5/8/25

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Jason Brough and guest host Jamie Dodd look back at the previous day in sports, plus they get the latest 'Nucks news from Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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He just said he has it, takes a shot and he scores! Good morning, welcome to Halford and Bruff here on Sportsnet 650. But no Mike Halford today, I'm Jamie Dodd filling in for Halford for the day. I will see you about tomorrow as well. Bruff, what's going on man? Good morning, how are you buddy? I'm doing great. Halford's just a little under the day. I will see about tomorrow as well bro. What's going on man? Good morning. How are you buddy? Yeah, great. How far it's just a little under the weather. So I might give them today and tomorrow We'll see we'll see if he takes the weekend as well a dog Hello

Laddie what am I supposed to say to you? Hello? Just my name. Hello. Hello. Just laddie. Just you don't even want hello Have to honestly Sure, I like Alfred does he just says laddie. He don't have to, honestly. Sure. But like Alfred does, he just says laddie. He just points at you. Yeah, he points at you. Hello, hello. Well, hello, hello.

You got it in the books. Well done. Well done, laddie. Howlford and Brough, brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first untrusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five-star reviews. Visit sands-trustee.com and this hour of Halifax and Breath is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling, Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal North Star Metal Recycling. They

recycle, you get paid. 1170 Powell Street. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studio, Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step 650 650 is the Dunbar lumber text line and we got a lot going on on the show today first I'll run through the guest list here 630 Luke Fox from sports net. Of course, he covers the Leafs who Are up to nothing in their series against the Florida Panthers with another win last night. So we'll talk to Luke Fox about that. 7 o'clock Adnan Virk from MLB and NHL Network will get into the world of baseball with Adnan. Maybe a movie question for him as well.

7.30, looking forward to this. Derek Lalonde, former NHL head coach who's been doing some great work on these Sportsnet, HockeyNet, and Canada panels during these Stanley Cup playoffs. That's at 730 at 8 o'clock. My regular co-host Thomas Drance from Canucks Talk here in Sportsnet 650 and the athletic as well of course. Now beyond the guest list we've also got a pair of giveaways. So first we're giving away a pair of tickets to the Vancouver Canadians, the Saturday, May 17th game, I believe it's the women in sports game. Hazel May will be there in attendance. So you get to see the Vancouver Canadians and Hazel May. If you

want those tickets tickets for the Cs and Adog just seconds before we went on air told me we're also giving away a pair of tickets to see the Who. The Who? The Who? Very exciting, the Who! And I have no information. When is this? This email literally came in like 558? Which I now don't have in front of me. All right. Well, anyways at some point in the future How old are those guys? Yeah, seriously. What is it Pete Townsend and Roger Daltrey? Still still with the their final North American tour September 23rd. That's what they say. Yep Well, September 23rd of them's 81

They just brand every every concert is the final It's a September 23rd at Rogers Arena All right So and a pair of tickets to see the who? September 23rd at Rogers Arena and these are early tickets were given out because the actual tickets don't hit the box office until May 16th There you go. Seriously. Is there like a doctor that is keeping all of these guys two of them are heads and jars ACDC just came through and they're on this crazy world tour and the energy it must take I mean I saw

This is a couple years ago now. I saw John he had a game credible energy like how did these guys? I saw the Rolling Stones in like 2005 and I was like wow these guys still do it? How do they not have the stones? How do they do it? I saw the Rolling Stones in like 2005, and I was like, wow, these guys are old. Yeah, right? 20 years ago, and they're still doing it. These guys are all still doing it. Oh my God, it's awesome. I thought you were gonna say like,

is there a doctor on tour with them, just in case? Like standing by. Of course there's a doctor on tour. No, I thought that, is there like a doctor's like, it's like, take this. What is it? Just, you need it. Inject them with lots of bugs

don't ask questions 10 seconds before they go on stage push them out there anyway so September 23rd the who are coming to Rogers Arena you can beat the box office we're giving away a pair of tickets today caller 5 at 8 caller 5 at 8 for the tickets to the who 604-280-650

so if you want the tickets to the who your caller 5 at 8 if you want the tickets to the who 604 280 650 so if you want the tickets to the who your caller five at eight if you want the tickets to the Vancouver Canadians be caller five at 815 and again 604 280 650 is the number all right I am going to ignore Halfords normal routine of doing the guest list in reverse and instead we're gonna go right into what happened. What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools resources and safety training visit bccsa.ca

And of course we start in the NHL Stanley Cup playoffs two games on the schedule last night and if you're a Leafs hater and I know a lot of our listeners are It's time to start getting concerned because they took a two nothing lead in their series, thanks to a four, three win over the Florida Panthers. Mitch Marner scored the winner just 17 seconds after Anton Lindell had tied it in the third period. And they held on to win.

And as I said, lots to be concerned about from the perspective of a Leafs hater. Yeah, I was listening to this, uh, this game in the radio coming back from the golf course yesterday and Joe Bowen was very excited, especially when Marner scored right after Lindell had tied it. Uh, there are a lot of Holy Mackinaw's coming

out of the broadcast last night and Joseph Wohl, uh, got a couple as well. Um, he played very well, uh, in replacing Anthony Stolarz and we'll have to kind of keep our eyes on the, on the goalie situation, but if Woll's going to play fine, then the Leafs are going to be fine. And frankly, if I'm concerned about any goalie in

this series, it might be Sergei Bobrowski. Certainly there were concerns last night with the one. Paul Maurice said he didn't really like his game one either. And, uh, his game two wasn't terrific. Um, but you know, overall the feel for me, and maybe this is just me talking up Craig Borube too much. Maybe I'm projecting a little bit, but I think he's the perfect type of coach for them because I think the word composure comes up over

and over when I think of how Craig Borubey just handles his business and handles his team business. And we talked yesterday on the show and you know, a few people were wondering, well, I wonder if they'll do anything for Sam Bennett. And I'm saying that is not Borubey's way. Maybe if the game gets out of hand, they'll do something.

But this is a guy that I remember when he was the head coach of the St. Louis Blues, I thought he handled things perfectly when it came to things that didn't go ideally your way in these games. And that is going to happen in the playoffs. And he just says, accept it and move on to the next task because there's nothing really you can do about it that's going to help your team. No.

Right? Like what are you going to do? What, get suspended? You know, what are you going to do to Sam Bennett? You know, if the game's out of hand, sure, go up and say, I'm very happy with what you did or maybe even drop your gloves. But when you're trying to win a hockey game and

when you're trying to win a Stanley Cup, that sort of stuff is a total waste of energy, a waste of focus and the best thing to do is win the game. And that's what the Leafs have been doing. Um, and I think he, I've been noticing in, uh, in the analysis and people, what people are saying on social media, Berube is finally getting his dues.

Like people are saying, maybe this guy really did change the culture here, right? Maybe, and now look, there's still time in this series left and Florida is going back home. So I don't want to, you know, throw a parade for Craig Berube or the Leafs quite yet. Um, but you know, even though the Leafs had a good regular season, I didn't hear Craig Berube's name much in the Jack Adams conversation.

Like it just, I don't know, it didn't come up. And maybe it's because the Leafs have had plenty of good regular seasons. But don't forget, they won their division, right? That, that, that's quite an accomplishment when you're in a division with Tampa Bay in Florida and Florida had some injury issues, sure. But Toronto, maybe they didn't look all that impressive during the regular season, but the

results were there. And I think it's just like, it's the consistency. They just, there's no huge ups and downs anymore. And we didn't talk much about the Leafs this season It's the consistency. They just, there's no huge ups and downs anymore. And we didn't talk much about the Leafs this season because there was nothing much to talk about. It seemed like they just, to steal a phrase from torts, they just went about their business. Even the, like Marner's a UFA and even that didn't

really become a big distraction or a big story or anything without. Yeah, well, Tavares is going to stay. Right? Yeah. You know what I mean? I know. Yeah. Okay. Whereas Marner Yeah, well Tavares is going to stay. Yeah. You know what I mean?

I know. Yeah, okay. Whereas Marner feels like there's more uncertainty. I wasn't that impressed with the Leafs in the regular season to be perfectly honest. I feel like part of the reason there wasn't more discussion about Craig Barubei was, as you said, they've had good regular seasons. The test was really going to come when the playoffs rolled around. It was hard to say, hey, Bar Berube has done this really impressive job until

you see it in the playoffs, until you see it look different for the Leafs in the playoffs. And that's exactly what we're seeing now. You know, you brought up the composure. I think that's a fantastic point. How many teams, I think especially teams that have the reputation for, Oh, are they big game performers? Do they get it done in the playoffs? Do they have that dog in them?

Would feel the pressure to go make a big stink about Sam Bennett, right? And would let, because they have that reputation, they would think, well, we got to go prove that we're not like that. We're tough. We're big, tough guys. Just like the Panthers.

They've been trying to try to prove this nonsense for years and years and years. And they always get distracted by it and they always get their backs up because of the criticism. Just go win the game guys. Yeah. And the fact that they didn't do that at all, really impressive.

The other thing that stands out to me, and one, they trailed in that game a couple of times, fought back and tied it both times. The immediate response goal from Mitch Marner, right? No hang in their heads that they've given up the lead in the third period. And then I thought closing out the game six on five, uh,

Florida having the empty net and Florida is a really good team with the empty net. They were great. Just very calm, controlled. I mean, we've seen like, look, St. Louis gives up a goal with a couple of seconds left, right? Like we've seen teams panic LA or lose their heads in these situations, in these playoffs and the Lord didn't do it at all. For like three minutes with the goalie out. And although, you know, they had the puck, so there were nervous moments, I'm sure for least fans. You're right. There were never even like, There weren't a lot of like great aides. Oh my God.

No. Like what happened there? There's the one where Wohl like poke checked it away from Marshawn so he didn't even get a shot off. There's a couple of their looks, but it wasn't hair on fire, like how did that stay out type defending? It was just pretty much calm and, and in

control, which is not what we're used to from the Leafs. Uh, okay. So, um, uh, I don't love saying all this nice stuff about the Toronto Maple Leafs and I, and I don't love the idea that this could be the Leafs year or could be the Oilers year. So I want to have one negative and I'm going to read it from superintendent Steve who texted

in to the Dunbar Lumber text line. Can we all agree Toronto's playoff crowd is one of the worst in sports? Yes. It is horrible. And again, I was listening to the, the, the radio call and Joe Bowen is like, this place is hopping. The people are on their feet. Oh, they're on their feet. Oh my God. People are going nuts. They're applauding. They must

be exhausted. People in the front rows looked up from their phones for the first time in the game. Yeah, it was crazy. This guy said guy said, I got to call you back on this deal. It was absolutely amazing. It's pandemonium in there. Yeah, the Leafs crowd is not great. I've actually never been to that rink, but maybe there's something about the rink, but it's the crowd. Don't give them excuses.

Okay. All right. Just put it on them. All right. So that's the one negative about Toronto. And by the way, Justin and Tawasin says, don't worry guys, it's in the script. The Leafs are gonna blow a three nothing lead

and lose in game seven. That would be a new level of playoff misery for the Leafs. That would be awesome. I do wanna play one bit of audio, and it's not praising Craig Borube, but it is Craig Borubey praising one of his players and that player, I mean, I was very, I thought he was the best Leaf last year in

the playoffs and his ability to deal with the Toronto market is very impressive and he just does his thing, doesn't feel it and I think he's become one of the leaders on the Toronto Maple Leafs and it's Willie Nylander. Everybody knows the talent level that William Nylander has but it's another thing to do it on this stage at this time

of year the way he's doing it right now. What have you, if anything, learned about him? Just leave him alone. Nothing gets to him. I mean, I think of anything, like he doesn't feel pressure, there's no too big a stage for this guy.

Like he thrives on this stuff, in my opinion, and he looks forward to it, and he wants to be in all those critical situations. And when he smells something, he's there. You know, that goal is just, that's as high end as it can get, in my opinion, with hands. He's a high end player. He really is.

I mean, and I don't think that he feels pressure or anything like that. He just plays and he doesn't want me to talk to him. So let's leave him alone. I probably should just leave him alone. So that's Borube on, on Nylander. Uh, we got a text in, you guys are fine with Toronto walking away and not sticking up

for each other, but you guys get all upset when the Canucks don't stick up for teammates. There is a massive difference between the regular season and the playoffs. Yeah. And you, it's just, it all comes down to situational awareness. I don't know what to say.

Like we were joking yesterday. It's like, we were talking about the mistake that, uh, Byfield made not getting the puck out. And it's like, well, you know, sometimes you rip players for just putting it glass and out, uh, instead know, sometimes you rip players for just putting it glassing out instead of making a play with the puck. And at the end of the day, the right move is just the one that works. That's right. You know, like, and I just think you just have to, in the moment, be able to balance

what is good for the team. Sometimes there's moments where you need to stick up for a teammate and you have to weigh everything. There's a lot of things that go into that. And there are other times when you just come together as a team and you say, we're not going to let this bother us because this is what they're trying to do to us. This is what they're, this is, they're trying to get us off our game.

I think the other big difference. Let's not play into that. Is being in the moment versus the next game. You know what I mean? Like if you're on the ice as a Canucks player in trying to get us off our game. I think the other big difference. So let's not play into that. Is being in the moment versus the next game. You know what I mean? Like if you're on the ice as a Canucks player and Quinn Hughes gets blown up, you want to see a response. You want to see an emotional response. And it doesn't have to be something that's going

to be suspension worthy, right? Or an eye for an eye, but you want to see a response. But once the moment passes and now you're into a new game, and as you said in the playoffs, like there's no point proving. There's no like, hey, we're going to send a message about how much we stick up for each other on this team. You're trying to win the game.

And the worst thing you can do is let it carry over into a new game and become a distraction and make that the focus of your efforts rather than just winning the game. So I'm going to be laughing at you. Yeah, it's a massive difference doing it in the moment on the ice when it happens versus letting it continue and carry on.

I think that's one of the reasons you want to see the in the moment reaction is because it finishes it. It's like, okay, we stood up, it's over, now we're moving on and we're doing the rest and we're trying to win the game rather than letting it carry over from game one to game two in the playoffs. What did you think of that Bennett play on St ours? I don't think it was that dirty

First of all, there's like a elbow in the back of his like I was more like the glove. Yeah, it's like a goalie interference penalty Yeah, that that it was It's a minor sucks that he had took the shot too. So that that's bad, but it wasn't that dirty He was going to the net with the puck. Yeah, it was weird. The whole thing was weird. Yes, it was. And I think there was more to it than just that one play. Let's talk about Dallas getting a win in

Winnipeg last night. The Stars win 3-2 and obviously the story is ranting in. But I just had this quick thought that, you know, on this show, we talk a lot about us not wanting the Canadian teams to win. Could Dallas be our savior? Oh, absolutely. Because they could take out Winnipeg. And then Edmonton next round. And then Toronto.

And then Toronto. They're the only team still alive that could take out all three Canadian teams, which would be ironic because Halford and I often say like, we don't care about Dallas. Like, Dallas is boring to, I don't know, for whatever reason. We have new ungrateful guys. Yeah.

And now we're like. Coming to the rescue. Yeah. We're coming crawling back and it was like, come on guys, get it done. Come on Dallas. This ranted in story is incredible. The natural hat trick yesterday coming on the heels of this

incredible performance in the first round against the Colorado Avalanche. He's the first player in Stanley Cup history with multiple three goal periods in the same postseason. Yeah. And he did it in back to back games. First player in any show history. He's been in on, did I read this correctly?

The last 12 Dallas goals. 12 straight Dallas goals, which is a playoff record. The previous record was Mario Lemieux at nine. Do you think Chris McFarland in Colorado is just like, I'm going to take a quick vacation. So I need to get away from, I need to just unplug a little bit. I've been thinking about this a lot. Imagine if this was playing out in the Canucks or in the Colorado position.

Like they had traded not just a good player, like they didn't even trade Brock Besser at the deadline and they weren't going to the playoffs, right? But imagine if they traded like a guy who had been elite in the league. You also have to imagine that they'd won a cup with him, which is hard because the Canucks haven't won a cup. He ends up back in your division, eliminates you with a game seven hat trick against you in the playoffs and now like might be the front runner for the Con Smythe.

Imagine if Dallas wins the cup and he wins the Con Smythe. Is that, like are people gonna look at it as the worst trade in NHL history? Is one of the worst decisions in NHL history? And I don't, like I think the process is still defensible. The idea behind it is defensible. It's not like on its face laughable from a value perspective like some other bad trades, but if that happens the same year,

he eliminates you and goes on to win the Kahn Smythe, it's got to be up there. And I just can't help thinking like, if that was happening to the Canucks, what would the conversation be like in this market? What would the reaction be? Would a GM here in Vancouver be able to survive? I don't even think the process is defendable. Yeah, they're a playoff team. Why would you trade Mikko Rantanen if you're a playoff team?

I don't even think, because I think Neches, he's a good player, but I don't think he's. Too big a drop off. Yeah. It's too big a drop off and it puts Neches in a tough position as well. Um, he's not Rantanen. And the way, the one thing that I took out of all

of this was, and it's carried through with me, was how upset, um, McKinnon was when Rantanen was traded and how he looked like, what the hell just happened? We traded Rantanen? And then Rantanen goes and signs a deal. Now granted taxes might've had an impact on that deal, but if he signs the deal in Dallas that he got in Colorado, isn't everyone happy in Colorado?

I would think so. Right. It feels like the number one thing that happened there is they made a bet that it was like 90% McKinnon and McCarr driving ranted and success You know what I mean, and they were like, ah, he's good But you know we plug a really good forward in and what happened and now you're seeing it and then yeah It looked like they were gonna be right right where it struggles a little bit in Carolina struggles when he gets to to Dallas Initially and now you're seeing what he's capable of doing on his own.

Like he goes to a team that already had good forwards, Jason Robertson, Rupé Hans, and you see the difference he's making. Again, if that happens in Vancouver or really probably any Canadian market, I don't know how the GM survives. Like I don't know how the person who makes that decision survives a trade like that when it immediately bounces back on you like this. Well Well how's this for context for that as well? Well, Migu Renton got the hatchery yesterday, he moved into seventh all-time in points per game in the playoffs in NHL history. Sixth place is Nathan McKinnon. So Colorado could have had the sixth and seventh all-time points per game

in the playoffs players and they decided to trade one of them? Yeah. That's tough. That's a weird move. It's not ideal. Text in McFarland, slight defense, Rantonon cannot be paid more than McKinnon, but that's, he's not being paid more than McKinnon. Yeah.

And I guess the report is. His cap hit came in under McKinnon's for Dallas and JD and Coquitlam, yes. Vegas could also eliminate all three Canadian teams. But I was just thinking about the way things are trending. Right. Don't give up hope on Vegas.

They look slow, man. They look slow. A Edmonton man. Yeah. McDavid and Dreisaitl. It's a lot. It's a lot for any team to deal with. I know.

I don't know if Dallas is going to be able to deal with it either. Don't you think though that Vegas looked slow? Yep. Yeah. I think Florida's looked slow too. Yeah. I don't love it. God. Don't like this. Leafs Oilers. Did we just panic a little bit?

We did. We just froze up. We're like, oh my gosh, what are we going to do here? Another ranting and stuff that was going on, making the rounds on social media. I don't know if you guys saw yesterday, but four players in NHL history have scored multiple one period hat tricks in the playoffs and Renton of course just did it four days apart. Yes consecutive games. Yeah ridiculous Incredible by the way just quick update from the a HL as well called her cup playoffs Abby Canucks beat the Coachella Valley Firebirds 3-1 in game three of that series last night in Abbotsford. So they'll have a couple of chances to close out their second game series at home.

It's a best of five. They just need to win one more. And it was Nate Smith, Kyril Kudryasov and Phil DiGiuseppe. Remember him? Phil DiGiuseppe getting the empty netter. The goal scorers for the Abbotsford Canucks and Lekaramaki was back in the lineup. He was back in the lineup. He had an assist on the Kudryafsa goal. And Archer Shilov's played well again for Abby in that one. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. What do you think about this notion that the Canucks are going to add two or three top six forwards and they're going to do it not liking the unrestricted free agent list and they're going to do it with kind of limited assets in which to deal with. They've barely made any first round picks over the last little while or second round

picks for that matter. You don't really want to trade away your few blue chip prospects. And yet that's what they're going to, that's what they said they're going to do. Although you also listed, and I know Drance has kind of reported this, like they, you know, he had the piece of the athletic this week, like DPD, probably untouchable.

Yeah. Right. I don't know if they have a lot of appetite to deal with Volander. We'll see about the standoff where that goes. Maybe he becomes an asset, but Volander or Leckermache. So it's like you start taking, you don't have a ton of assets and then you're taking some off the table, which makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I don't want them to trade PPDR. Promising young players. No, absolutely. He's awesome. Like I get why, but it's, you're also taking your best trade chips off the table and then you factor in, you know, Minnesota, who we we might talk about later they're in the market for a center for center help right you look at Montreal probably in the market for center help

those teams have more assets to work with than the Canucks so it's gonna be difficult to outbid them when you start to really do the calculus and look at it I think where I land is they it is going to have to be distressed assets. It's not going to be, oh wow, this guy had a great season last year and we just acquired him. You know what I mean? It's gonna be the capitals essentially, like okay, we'll fine, we'll take two points.

And that's why, and people get very angry when I bring this name up, but like the name I've brought up a lot is Trevor Zeigars. Yeah. If you're just like, okay, we gotta take a swing, I know. well, and so it is like go great. He'll bring his cellies here Rough kind of layer the people on shell Did you see that gritty yeah, I understand it though, right? Like because and it's not like that's their first choice

But you're gonna get outbid on your first choices if they they, if those guys even move. And those get, and the, and the perfect guys won't be available. That's the thing. There, there's going to be something about these players, probably something significant where a team is willing to give up a center that's 23, 24, 25 years old. It's not going to be like, he's perfect.

Yeah, no, he was great. We love him. We hate ourselves. We are, we're going through a midlife crisis right now. He's a great leader, he was productive last year, no injury concerns. Actually on a really team friendly contract too, do you guys want him?

It's like, oh yeah, sure, absolutely. Yeah, no, that's not happening. There's going to be a lot of boxes that are not checked for the player, and that's the market you're shopping in, and you hope that they can turn it around. You can unlock them here. That's what it's going to look like. Now can they do that? Add two or three players of that ilk? Maybe. And then you just got to hope that you find the right coach who

can figure it all out and go from there. But it's an uphill battle, I think, to say the least. Thomas Grange Erotica Expectal Goals Thomas Grange Erotica Tough Model Thomas Grange Erotica Regression Thomas Grange Erotica P.D.O. Thomas Grange Erotica Veronica. Petey. Thomas.

Veronica. All right. Welcome back to Halford & Brough here at Sportsnet 650. Jamie Dodd here filling in for Mike Halford. Halford and Brough brought to you by Sands and Associates BC's first untrusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five-star reviews visit Sands-Trustee.com this hour of Halford and Brough brought to you by Campbell and Pound real estate

appraisers trust the expertise of Campbell and Pound visit Campbell-Pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec Footwear and Orthotics, working together with you in step. Just before we go to the hotline powered by Power West Industries, as a reminder, now you've probably already missed your chance

for the Who tickets to be caller five for those. We'll get the winner announced by Andy in a second here, or after dance I should say. But at 8.15, we're giving away a pair of tickets to see the Vancouver Canadians for Saturday, May 17th game at NAP Bailey. Caller five at 8.15, 604-280-0650. Caller five at 8.15, and again,

continue to send your What We Learn submissions in. 650-650 to the Dunbar Lumber text line. Now joining us on the hotline powered by Power West Industries, my cohost on Canucks Talk and of course, also working at the athletic, he is Thomas Drantz. What's going on Drantz?

Gentlemen, good morning. How are you doing buddy? Did you think Rantanen's twerking was pretty good last night? He had another twerk trick. That was pretty good last night. He had another twerk trick. That was pretty good. Yeah. I mean, I mean, look, everyone knows, um, having

a large butt is a huge advantage in hockey. That is amazing that you didn't know, first of all, what twerking was, but then you somehow managed to think that, what did you think it meant? I think you know what twerking is. You just, you, like you were trying to say, there's no way you didn't know what twerking is. What are you talking about?

And how did you think to use it? I honestly, I was looking for twerking and I just threw an extra W in. Yeah, okay. And that's like when Adog said, retired instead of extinct when it came to the mammoth. He was like, we asked him what a mammoth was and he was like, it's a retired elephant. That's not what it is. Uh, snowbirds and bokeh. My favorite, my favorite

part about using twerking though is that you on air looked up the definition to see if there was like an alternate definition you were thinking of. Yeah. Cause I can't be wrong. No, it says it's a dance that involves thrusting the hips. I, I, I 1000% did not immediately accept defeat, despite knowing that I should.

Well, in all seriousness about the Avs, do you think they made a bet that a lot of his production was tied to playing with McKinnon and McCarr and maybe if they were going to resign him to a contract, he might be a little overvalued and they could replace him with someone else that would get some point inflation by playing with those two. And now they're looking at their situation and going, we've made a big mistake.

I think that when it comes to players of this caliber, I think the idea that they weren't going to be able to get them signed. I know people will say it was over 250 K or 400 K. Like the truth is, is that they'd been having those contract talks. They entered the season with them and for whatever reason that discomfort grew about their ability to get them extended long term. And you know, I think sometimes in those talks, it's less about like the money and more about the flow of conversation and how confident you are that you can actually get the deal done. And I think once they thought, hey, there's a chance we're not going to be able to sign him. They thought this is a piece too valuable for us to risk going into the playoffs and losing for nothing. Like this is, we are talking about,

you know, one of the 10 best forwards in the sport. We cannot allow this to sort of pass without us getting value. So let's pivot our plan. We'll rebuild our team. We'll, we'll net multiple centers and quality assets for this guy. And we'll, we'll try to win nonetheless this season. Like we'll still try to go all in, even though we are going to have to take a step back and they dealt into Carolina and Carolina quite similarly I think looked at it as well first of all I think Carolina was eager to sell high on Martin Natchez who always had issues with Rod Britton Amore like that was always going to be an issue and also

just like they are looking very very long and hard at trying to graft elite talent onto their project. Like that's what they tried to do with Gensel. They tried to extend Gensel. They couldn't get Gensel done. Then they traded for Rantan and it didn't fit. It didn't fit for them in the locker room. It didn't fit for them on the ice. And Rantan wasn't going to be willing to sign there. And then they made the same decision that the Colorado Avalanche did, which is as much as we think elite talent matters more than anything else, we cannot afford to take one swing. We need to now net assets, extend our window,

get a younger piece and keep our powder dry so that the next time a situation like this comes about, Rantan and Argenzel will once again be positioned to trade for the guy because we're going to accumulate everybody else at the draft and we're going to have these assets and we're going to have a high baseline and a high floor team that always makes the playoffs and in fact always wins around every year for the last seven seasons. But the key is not just to have elite talent but to have elite talent with like a set window, multiple kicks at the can for them to go nuke at the right time.

And then Dallas finally was able to step in, pay the price, and most importantly, get this nine year run with Rantanen, which he's pretty much immediately delivered on with back to back hat tricks, three or four of the most astonishing performances we've seen. This side of Connor McDavid and the Stanley Cup playoffs the last five years, and sort of that brings us to where we're at today. So I think honestly that Dallas and Carolina fundamentally showed us, or sorry, Colorado and Carolina fundamentally made the same decision with Randin, which is that as much as we think he could help put us over the top this year without locking him in, without the certainty, the value of the asset needs

to be monetized here. We need to recoup value as opposed to just renting a player of this caliber. And I think that's a fascinating decision from two of the, you know, brightest, sharpest NHL front offices in terms of what best practices look like going forward. And then obviously Dallas landing the top guy and randans breakthrough this season, I think has just given us a really high quality look into, in my opinion, the changing nature of the game where, you know, goaltenders are losing the battle finally to skilled guys.

And you kind of need a top player. You need a top player who's going nuke at this point to really sort of stand out and, and last through the Stanley Cup playoffs. And that's pretty different from where we were at, you know, 10, even five years ago in this league, but, but these days, I think, and I think Dallas is a perfect example, especially when you look at the state of the right side of their blue line, like, transcendent talent trumps a well-built team right now, just the way that the league is going.

And that's, I think, pretty different from the hockey experiences that most of us have had watching this sport across the last 25 years. But I do think it's real and sort of becoming more real, largely as a result of sort of dropping, say, percentage across the last few seasons. So it's rare that I get Drance and Dodd together at the same time and sometimes when I do- It's not that rare.

Well, me, me personally me personally on the show. And so I'm going to ask you this question and it came from Sheldon from Surrey. I think this is a good one. Hypothetically, if Elias Pedersen, the forward, were a UFA this summer, what do you guys think he would get on the open market? Wow, that's a funny one. It's a tough one. It's a good one, isn open market? Wow. That's a funny one. Tough one.

It's a good one, isn't it? Yeah. It's a good hypothetical. I think if Pedersen was hitting UFA this summer, coming off a 44 point season, I still think he would probably not be as highly sought after as Sam Bennett would be if Sam Bennett hits, but I think he'd sign for the second most total money among all NHL sentiment. So I think he'd still come in at 9 to 10 or 9 to 11 million on a long-term deal. Don't you think also though that there would be in this hypothetical a strong chance?

It's almost like after a player gets bought out and they're like, well, I'll do the one year deal and then I'll reestablish my value and then I'll see what my options are. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's a crazy hypothetical, so it can't actually play out that way. But if you're a Leas-Peterson and you believe in a bounce back,

you're taking the one year deal, right? Like, hey, okay, one year, eight million to go somewhere. And then I'll hit a home run next year once I score 80 points. Unless you don't want to work out this off season. That's true. That's a good point. Or unless the offer is just there for like, you only sign that, well, there's two reasons you sign that.

One, you wanna like truly maximize your income, right? And what we're talking about is one year, 13 million, right? One year, 15 million, right? Then you consider the one year deal. Like it has to be at a level that you can't get on a long-term deal or the larger offer has to not be there for you. And I think because of Pedersen's age, track record and the premium position he plays, I suspect that despite how miserable it was to watch him play over

the course of the past 12 months, despite, I still think that money would be there because teams are so desperate to take upside shots on, you know, this caliber of player, even if their form, you know, and behavior hasn't been at the level that you want from a, from a top player across the last 14 months or so. So, um, you know, the, the two year, like I, I'm still, I'm still wondering if someone does that, right? Like I'm still wondering if someone in that Marner Ehlers, Bennett tier really does look long and hard at doing two times 18 with the Chicago Blackhawks, for example, um, you know, especially if you're a player

Marner's age and can then hit unrestricted free agency again in your twenties, like I really am curious to see if anyone has the stones to do that, right? Make an ungodly sum on a short term deal and then hit unrestricted free agency again when they're still in their late twenties and when the cap is $115 million as opposed to $95 million and sign your long-term deal there. Sell your 30s there. To me, it's such a clear play for one of those top guys to look at strongly this summer. And I'm really going to be fascinated to see if that comes to pass. I kind of think it will. You got to be real confident in your ability to bring a similar level of play to a team.

Like let's say it's Chicago, you know, it can be hard to stay motivated in Chicago. Uh, although I guess putting yourself in that contract situation would do it. And you got to be very confident that you can stay healthy. Like go ask a guy like John Klingberg, whether or not that's a good idea.

Do you know what I mean? Like sometimes when the money's on the table, you got to take it. Yeah. Well, and that's how I think a lot of hockey players have thought about this for years and, and as they should to some extent, right? This is a pretty dangerous game that they play

without question. And so I think that's why you've seen guys sign early. That's why you've seen guys sign early. That's why you don't see too many guys even make it to unrestricted free agency, right? You know, in certainly in Eler's case, right? Like he's been pretty motivated to make it to unrestricted free agency.

So why would you, having pushed the ball to this point or push the boulder to this point up the hill, you know, summited a little bit further. And again, it's not like we're talking about, you know, I'm not talking about guys signing for two years at 5 million total, right? Like I'm talking about generational wealth secured and the prospect of like really maximizing your income in your playing days.

It does take you assuming some risk that shouldn't be underplayed here. I'm just, I'm curious to see if we find like a new mode of making business, right? There's an extent to which I do think going a little bit shorter term, especially with what we're expecting the cap to do in the years ahead, you know, can like really add, we're talking like 20% to a player's career earnings over the course of a two and a half year span.

And I'm just, I'm going to be really fascinated to see if anyone has sort of the business sense and the stones to make that type of bet. My eyes kind of glaze over sometimes when we talk about players making like 20% more. Like you've already made 80 million, can you make 20% more? I don't know, that's just me, but I get what you're saying. Drancer. You know what? and can you make 20% more? I don't know, that's just me, but I get what you're saying. Dranser. You know what, I totally agree with you

because the money is so ungodly, but I also know that when I think about it for myself, I'm like, 20% more, I'm like, let's go. So I just assume that other people are wired in the same greedy way that I am. Yeah, well, fair enough. Dranser, let's get back to the coaching question when it comes to the Canucks.

Um, I think we can all admit that the Canucks would prefer that Rick Tauke would have stayed. Is there any way this could be a blessing in disguise? I think so. Yeah, I think there's absolutely a way that it could be a blessing in disguise. And frankly, I think even before he left, there were organizational or internal conversations, you know, about as the club just grappled with the possibility and it started to feel

like a realer possibility to organizational leadership. I think there's a sense, for example, that, you know, one of the strengths that talk it brings is he raises your floor, he improves the way that you defend, right? There's a level of organization and structural sort of integrity to his team's games that obviously the club admires and values highly prizes. There's also a sense that, you know, a lot of players step up and will play really, really well for them.

And a lot of those players tend to be guys a little lower down your lineup. You think about Sherwood and Lafferty and Nikita Zadorov, right? And some of the players that have really hit high levels of form under Tocket. Dakota Joshua would be another. Connor Garland would be another. Guys who on paper you might put on your third line and under Tocket you get an awful lot more of them. Now one thing that this team didn't get, aside from Quinn Hughes, during Tocket's tenure was it's not like their absolute apex performers,

right? The guys at the top of their lineup, you know, had similar sort of growth trajectories outside of Hughes. Hughes did, Miller had the one good season, but Miller's just an odd year player. So is that talk it or is that just cause it's an odd year? So it's one of Miller's a hundred point seasons as opposed to one of his 80 point seasons. And then we all know what's happened with Patterson. So I do think there's an extent to which, you know, one thing the organization honestly does think about this is in our next coach, can we prior to talk its decision and thinking about prior to talk its decision.

So that would be sort of the one area that stands out to me as an opportunity here is can you find a coach? Can you identify a coach who can, whether it's partner more effectively or just get more out of Alias-Peterson, help Alias-P peterson get back on track and you know given where this club sort of sits in its team building cycle this this sort of brittle moment that the franchise has entered uh... with all the uncertainty looming uh... around not just like their roster but their three best players stoop for for injury reasons you know just uh...

mysterious deterioration of their abilities reasons reasons, or contractual reasons. Um, you know, can't, can they find a coach who it helps them get more out of those three guys and, and what does that mean? Right? I think there's an opportunity there and I think that's one that the club is conscious of. Uh, ESPN's Emily Kaplan just tweeted out the Ducks

are hiring Joel Quenville as head coach per Darren Drager. She also reports that David Karl had a two day interview with Anaheim before extending with DU. We knew about that. We didn't know that he had a two day interview with the Ducks. Also interesting, Emily reports Jay Woodcroft and Rick Tauket were the other final candidates for the job in Anaheim.

Any thoughts on that news? Well, look, there's been a pretty widespread expectation that this was going to be Joel Cuenville, regular Connects Talk. Listeners know that I've been talking about it for, I don't know, Jamie 10 days. Sure, something like that. So, you know, this is not a huge surprise.

Uh, I think the, uh, the, the talk inside of it, uh, you know, I'm not, I'm not surprised that they reached out to him to have a conversation, um, was it due diligence given that, uh, you know, I, I think a lot of people thought that Cuenville and Anaheim was the marriage that was going to happen. Were they just making sure that we talked to Karl, we talked to Tauke, we talked to Woodcroft, and in some ways we were already well down the road with Q in doing so, but before we made this decision, we wanted to at least reach out to some of the other top candidates. Anaheim, that job was really appealing. Like, I think more than anything what this tells

you, if Carl was willing to take a two-day meeting before extending in DU, if Taukeit was willing to go down the road with Anaheim, if Woodcroft was as well, like, that's basically a who's who of the top candidates. And then you land Joel Quenville, now a more controversial hire, but certainly a guy with a ton of pedigree, especially with younger teams, given his time in Chicago, given his time in Florida even. And so, I think what this would scream to me anyway, beyond anything else,

is that Ducks job may be viewed as one of the top vacancies in the cycle by NHL head coaches ambitious about winning games. Like what the Ducks have built despite what it looked like in the first half of last season, and despite the fact that Greg Cronin had them playing brutally conservative hockey to the point that none of their top players had breakout campaigns at all, they still finished with what? They must have flirted with 80 points, like high 70s, mid 70s point totals, a ton of young talent, a ton of guys like Mason McTavish who you can look at as a leadership type of building block, um,

and assets to move assets to move, to improve over the course of the summer, calf space to improve and Hey, you want to come live in Orange County and play for a good young team on the rise. A pretty good pitch to make town restricted for agents this summer. Like more than anything, the quality of the names and ball stands out to me. Like this ducks job I think was very appealing to NHL head coaches, which, you know, given that they're a Pacific division team, maybe a Pacific division rival as soon as next season, now that they've got a coach like Quindle,

who, you know, I think we can fairly cast dispersions at his record, given his role in the Brad Aldrich scandal. You know, I also think we look at his resume as a hockey coach and think, yeah, he's going to improve that team. And there should be very little doubt about that in my mind. So I think that's sort of the biggest Canuck centric takeaway here, honestly, is like, this ducks team among people who really know this sport looks to be a team with a pretty bright future here. Trance thanks for doing this man, sorry about leaving you high and dry on our show today but you'll get through it. Yeah yeah I'm fine. Cheers. That is Thomas Trance on Sportsnet 650. You're listening to the

best of Halford and Brough.