Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 6/12/25

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, plus they talk the latest rumours around the 'Nucks and Elias Pettersson with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa a a a da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da Now drives forward with the left hand floating to the glass. No! But why ES? As Toppett pulled it off the front of the rim and flushed it with two hands. The Pacers rallied and were able to finish this one off. 116 to 107. The talking heads on the major platforms, I couldn't care less, honestly.

Like, what do they really know about basketball? Good morning, Vancouver. 6.01 on a Thursday. It is Halford and his bruv. It is Sportsnet 6.15. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studios and beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason is here, but he's currently in disposed.

Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. And Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. I would have done a bruv impression if you just went along with that. We'll wait He'll be here in a minute halfer to bruff for the morning is brought to you by sands and associates BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five-star reviews visit them online at sands-trustee.com

We are in our one of the program our one is brought to you by North Star metal recycling Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. Jason is now live in studio, so we'll do this in reverse. I've already said good morning to the dogs, Jason, and now I say good morning to you.

Good morning, I got too chatty in the break room there. It happens. Yeah, you know me. I just love to chat. He loves to gab. Some say he's too personable. Many people say, uh, you owe us a Kintec read in a moment, but I can start going through the rundown of our guests today. The guest list today begins at six 30. Liam McHugh is going to join the program.

NHL on TNT host a reminder that game four of the Stanley cup final between Edmonton and Florida. You can hear it right here on sports net six 50 starting at five PM after Canucks central with sat and Dan Liam of course will be live on location in Florida for a very pivotal game four of this Stanley cup final. Do you have all your gear ready to go here? Should we try and do a mid rundown throw for Kintec? Do you mean the part where I say we are coming to you live from the Kintec

studio, Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you and step. That's real good. Real good boss. Seven o'clock Adnan. Burke's going to join the program from MLB network. How about them? Toronto blue Jays, the hottest team in baseball, 12 of their last 14 games are wins. Laddie, a sweep of the 14 games, are wins, laddie. A sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals, laddie. They are now eight games above 500 with a 38 and 30 record, despite the fact

that they're missing maybe their best player this season in Dalton Varsha. Yeah, and do you know who else is on a heater within the Blue Jays organization? Who's that? The Vancouver Canadiens. Ooh, tell me more. Yeah, they've won 14 of their last 16 games.

So the whole organization is just doing great. Well, speaking of the Vancouver Canadiens, Ladi, it's 7.30 this morning. We're going to have Pat Borders on the show. Remember him? Two time World Series champ with the Jays, 1992 World Series MVP. And you're like, well, what does this have to do with the Vancouver Canadians that Laddie was talking about? Borders and Todd Stoudamire will be at the NAT

this Saturday, June 14th. They'll be on the concourse signing autographs at the C's game. And if you're in attendance for the game, there's gonna be a giveaway for a trip to Toronto to see the Jays. If you wear your Jays gear, go to the NAT this weekend, meet Pat Borders and Todd Stoudamire. You could win a trip to Toronto to see the Jays. If you wear your Jays gear, go to the Nat this weekend, meet Pat Borders and Todd Stottlemyre.

You could win a trip to Toronto. Get this, Adog prior to the show asked if Todd Stottlemyre was somehow related to Toronto Raptors guard, Damon Stottlemyre. I looked it up, he is not. Wow. Probably because they spell their names differently. Yeah, two completely different people. people spell and pronounce their names very differently

Yeah, so Todd you know what I remember about Todd Stottlemeyer man brother Damon. He had a temper. Yeah, he was Intense covered in dirt big wad of tobacco in his cheek I can picture it now and he was a fiery dude and we had borders with a big wad of tobacco fiery dude and we had borders with a big wad of tobacco. Stoudelmeier was the one that did the slide and he like busted up his chin, right? Doing my research, I looked up Pat borders on Twitter and he doesn't have Twitter,

but he had, there is an account called Pat borders chew. Yeah. So that made me think, Oh, this guy must be synonymous with tobacco. So Pat borders, sorry, I got confused. I thought you were talking about Todd Stoudelmeier. I was talking about Pat borders and his chew. He's going to join us at seven 30 to talk some J's and everything else that he's been doing long past his career. And then of course, his trip to Vancouver this weekend,

eight o'clock Thomas Drance from the athletic is going to join us and Canucks talk right here on sports net six 50 a couple of recent pieces up at the athletic. We can dive into what is the trade value of Vancouver's 20, 25 first round NHL draft pick considering many think it could be already on the block. They also do the Canucks notebook over the athletic catching up with Manny Malhotra and Abbotsford's run to the Calder Cup final, which of course gets underway tomorrow night. Uh, we are also once again giving away, uh, two packs,

four packs of tickets to see the 2025 CONCACAF gold cup at BC place Tuesday, June 17th, Canada, Honduras, Jesse Marsh has called on us, four packs of tickets to see the 2025 ConcaCaf Gold Cup at BC Place. Tuesday, June 17th, Canada, Honduras, Jesse Marsh has called on us. Show up, support your Canadian men's national team. So we're giving away tickets every day this week. Uh, we're retaking calls at 805 and 815 this morning. Caller number five in each instance will win the tickets. The number here, 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650.

Finally, I have a question for all of you. Have you bought your tickets to the Sportsnet 650 Jays Care 5050 for Challenger Baseball? If you have not, you need to do it. It is supported by Tiltown, proudly Canadian owned and operated since 1971. Visit them online at mytiltown.ca. Our goal is to raise $100,000. We are a ways from that at 15,000. We're going to give away a signed Quinn Hughes jersey to spike interest in this thing. Buy your tickets now at jayscaregolf.rafflenexus.com.

Again, it's the Jays Care Sports Net 50-50 for Challenger Baseball. A very good cause, a very good initiative, and you get a chance to win some money as well. jayscaregolf.rafflenexus.com. Buy 50-50 tickets right now. Okay, that's what's happening on the program today. We got a lot to get into. So without further ado, laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was.

We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies

the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. We are going to start very briefly with the national basketball association and the national hockey league. We will look back at last night's game and then look ahead to tonight's game. Last night, the Indiana Pacers in their first NBA finals home game in 25 years inched that much closer to what would be an all time upset in the NBA finals home game in 25 years inched that much closer to what

would be an all time upset in the NBA finals, giving how big a betting underdog they were a one 16, one Oh seven Victor over the Oklahoma city thunder in game three last night of all the Canadians taking part in this NBA final. It was Benedict Matthew with a game high 27 points off the bench. And that was one of the big stories in this one. The Pacers bench outscored. Okay. Seas bench by a whopping 49 to 18. And then it was one of your favorite players, TJ McConnell,

sparking the way on defense five steals in a game in which the Pacers really dominated on the defensive side of the ball. So this is going to be very confusing for the odds makers because this went in, this started as, uh, you know, Oklahoma city was favored by a lot. It was like minus 700 to win the series. Um, and then they split the first two in Oklahoma city, but the second one, Oklahoma city showed up and, you know, controlled the game.

What a pretty. So the odds makers had Oklahoma City as a five and a half point favorite in Indiana for game three, because they figured, okay, well game one was the blip game one was just a blip. Something happened. Maybe Oklahoma City was nervous or it was just one of those nights for the thunder. Um, so I wonder how they do things going forward. Do they maintain this Oklahoma city is a clear favorite because if so, then for

game four, Oklahoma city in some way should be an even bigger favorite because you have that bounce back factor where, you know, in game two, I was like, Oklahoma City is gonna blow the Pacers out of the arena. And they did. So, which way are you leaning on this? Is there something that the odds makers and the experts didn't take into account in this series? Well, first off, I wanna throw this stat at you. That is probably gonna tilt the entire thing.

Over the course of the history of the NBA, teams that win game three of a 1-1 series tie in the NBA finals have gone on to win 80.5% of the time. It means nothing to me because most of the time, sorry. It means 80% of the time to me. 80% of the time, it's right, 100% of the time. But you don't apply it to this series because most series, if it's 1-1 and game 3 like you

used to be like well yeah the favorites probably won that third game. In this case so maybe Indiana is the favorite Jason. Okay maybe Indiana is the favorite. Well do you believe that? I bet you straight up. I'll bet you straight up that Oklahoma City will still win the series. Yeah I'll take that. Yeah okay. Yeah all right. I'll take the team with that Oklahoma City will still win the series. I'll take that. Yeah, okay Yeah, all right the team with a 2-1 series lead. Okay, who remains unbeaten after all that's a good

Here's the thing everything that Indiana has done throughout the playoffs. It feels like everyone is dismissing it They just kind of keep coming back and doing it. I want to play some audio. Okay. Here's the bad by the way Here's the bet. Here's the bet. Okay If I win, yeah you buy a hundred dollars worth of Jays care 5050 tickets, but for me and if I win the opposite Probably a catch here somewhere, but we'll see. Okay, yeah, that works. Yeah, yeah.

So something goes to charity, but we also have a chance to win even bigger. I like the way you think, bruv. Okay. All right, I got Oklahoma City, which kind of sucks for me because I am now- What a stupid idiot. I'm now cheering for the Zombie Sonics.

Yeah, but you're also cheering for two Canadians, although I too am cheering for two Canadians. But we're cheering together for Jay's Care. Right too am cheering for two. Yeah, but we're cheering together For Jay's care right challenge your baseball yet directly against one another. Okay, so the other be called the zombie sonics, by the way That's a way better name. They're thinking about it. So I thought about it. The branding would be cool Okay, I know right so the talking points going into this were Okay sees a huge favorite. Whoever comes out of the East is just going to be cannon fodder for whoever comes out of the West. Tyrese Halliburton and the Indiana Pacers are both pushing back against that vocally and obviously with their play on the court, because they've been

pretty good through this first three games in the NBA Finals. Here's Tyrese Halliburton yesterday taking shots at all, talking heads says they don't know basketball and they don't know these Indiana Pacers. The commentary is always going to be what it is. You know, most of the time the talking heads on the major platforms, I couldn't care less, honestly, like what do they really know about basketball? The commentary is what it is at this point. You know, it doesn't matter.

You know, we're here in the NBA finals, two wins away from an NBA championship. So you just got to stay with it. Put my head down, keep working. And as a group, we just gotta keep learning from our mistakes, see where we can get better, and take it a day at a time. There's another team that's two wins away from its respective championship.

That's the Florida Panthers. They're in action tonight, hosting the Edmonton Oilers in game four of the Stanley Cup final. Lots of storylines going into this one. Most of them, I think, seem to focus on how the Oilers are going to respond to getting blown out in game three, sixth and one, how they're going to handle it emotionally.

Are they going to remain more disciplined and can Connor McDavid and Leon Dryside will get back after two very quiet games, each individually in game three. And also the changes that the others are probably going to make to their lineup. Is Troy Stetcher for sure going to come in for Klingberg?

Um, and what is the status of Ryan Nugent Hopkins? Because that seems. Perhaps. No, he wouldn't do that. He would not start Calvin Pickard. Not this game. I think our guests have been right on it. If this game goes poorly, then we're going to see Pickard.

You know, even then though though are you like I? Know I know what the thinking would be but in the elimination game Did go to Calvin Pickard 6-0 Calvin Pickard? Yeah, that's why I think they might I mean Logically speaking it does kind of make sense to go to him right now because Because hey, Skinner's given up 10 goals in the last two games. I would sooner go to him now. Yeah. As opposed to like, OK, everything is on the line. Elimination game.

Here comes Calvin Pickard in both for the Edmonton. No pressure. Yeah. I think that would be insane. You've been injured. You got like a handful of minutes last game to try and get you or I I don't think they're gonna Do it crazy enough to work though imagine the story. Oh, I know it's just kind of stuff You dream about as a goalie Dabore is like do it. Yeah, do it. You should do it

Wait till you're down to nothing and then a rift skinner and I make a rash decision while doing it. Okay, so there's your NBA look NHL look I think what we should do here is start getting into some of the silly season and maybe monger some NHL rumors. Now, Pierre Lebrun, Venerable NHL insider from the athletic, had a very meaty, meaty notebook up yesterday with Petey, meaty with Petey. He had a lot of different things that we wanted to parse through. Some of them can actually related, some of them not.

I tried to get as many sort of Canucks related or Canucks adjacent ones as I could, because there's a lot of really good talking points here. And I mentioned Petey. Let's start right there. The reporting on Alias Pettersen. I'll just read these verbatim and then we can spin off them. Never say never. But all signs point to the Canucks keeping Alias Pettersen, whose full no movement clause kicks in July one.

The Canucks are encouraged by Pedersen's approach to this off season. It then goes on to say while his production has dipped over the last two years, and there are teams monitoring him in light of how light the UFA market is, it sounds like Vancouver wants to keep him. This is something that we've heard as well.

Yeah. And the, and the encouragement part, um, is that, you know, one of the things which we reported earlier and had actually had a chat with Adam Foote about was his conversation, Adam Foote's conversation with Elias Pedersen where he was impressed with what Pedersen had to say and the Canucks are betting that Pedersen, you know, pride is going to be a factor here and he's going to go back to Sweden and have a great off season and work hard, maybe with some changes to his off season plan, but also that he's going to be feeling like it's a fresh start

because no JT. Right. And no Rick Tauken who, like, I don't know if Rick Tauken and Elias Pedaukett who like I don't know if Rick Taukett and Elias Pettersson ever had like the falling out but I think there was from what from what we've heard Elias Pettersson just didn't feel like Rick Taukett liked him as a hockey player, which Was like, you know those vibes you're getting,

Petey, they're bang on. Yeah, it's not so much a vibe as it is the truth. And so with Adam Foote, I think the feeling is a little bit different. And perhaps that's because Adam Foote didn't have to be the bad guy last season. And Adam Foote wasn't the guy coming down on Elias Pedersen.

He was the guy probably having more friendly conversation. He was the good cop. So that's going to be an interesting dynamic to monitor because Adam Foote is now the head coach and you know, we've had conversations with him about, you know, now you're not like the good cop all the time and you're not the guy that the players can go talk to after they get, you know, ripped by the head coach, you're the head coach now.

So that dynamic will be interesting to monitor, but Adam Foote also knows like, I gotta get through to Elias Pedersen. So I think that relationship is being considered a positive from the Canucks. They're not actively shopping Pedersen. This is what we heard. You know, they're not, they're not on the phone saying like,

Oh, we've got this Elias Pedersen guy. We'd like to move them. Give us your best offer. But. However. I also think they're still open to receiving attempting offer for him. Like they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not,

they're answering the phone and they're considering it. And one of the things that you have to remember is that, and they've made this pretty clear, like they didn't choose one over the other. Yep. So people might be like, well, what are you, what are you talking about here? Yeah, they did. They traded JT Miller. No. Ultimately, JT Miller came to them and said, trade me.

Yeah. It got to that point where Miller came to them and said, I want out of here, please get me out of here. Okay. I'll go to the Rangers. They actually had a trade they thought was done with Carolina for Pedersen. So in their minds, they have actually already pulled the trigger on a trade. Sure.

But what happened was Carolina said, hmm, that's interesting. Let's see if we can shop this package that we're going to give for Pedersen to Colorado for Miko Rantanen. And they did that deal instead. So the Canucks aren't against trading Pedersen because they already, in their minds, they've already done it once. It just didn't come to fruition.

Um, now some people will say, well, it's going to be a lot different after July 1st. If this no move clause kicks in and all of a sudden PD controls the situation, what they say, and I'm not a hundred percent on this, but what they're putting out there is that, um, if it gets bad next season, Pedersen isn't going to block any trade. He'll want out too. He's not going to be like, I'll only go to one place. Right?

He'll be as motivated as the team would be for him to move on, would be the idea. Now, the issue I see with that is, is he then just untradeable? Right. Because if you come back and you've said, okay, well, you've had the off season, you've had the, you know, the coaching change, there was the JT Miller trade. So basically all your excuses are gone and you come back and there's no discernible difference in your play, but you've still got this big contract attached to you.

No move clause or no no move clause, you might be untradable at that point. There's a big risk in both. I think there is a bit of a moral hazard issue at play here because this current management group knows that Pedersen returning to form is their highest upside bet. Because if they're trading Pedersen, what they're gonna get back at this point does not have the upside that Pedersen at his best does have. Yeah, return wise, it could be a Miller 2.0 situation.

Well, return wise, yeah, I don't even know what the return would be, but you're going to look at the Canucks top six and go, like double, because you're already kind of going, you're kind of already going, you know? So this management group is kind already going, well, you know, so, um, they, they, this management group is kind of like, well, um, you know, that's our best bet. And if it doesn't work out, we're probably not back anyway. There's probably going to be wholesale changes in the organization. So there is that factor to consider. Like if they weren't under intense pressure to return the Canucks to

playoff form and keep Quinn Hughes. You know, might there's thinking be a little bit more long term? It's a great question and a totally viable one for the situation there and with Patterson, right, because the situation with PD is super simple. Do you bring him back or do you try and move him? And then what you add on to that question is, what if your motivation was different? Would your answer to that question be different?

What happens if things were a little bit more harmonious? Maybe not necessarily with him and the fallout from Miller and then talk. It's dismissal, but there's so much riding on the season that goes beyond just Pedersen getting his game back. Right. I mean, the huge thing, you already mentioned it. There's a real organizational push to be a playoff team yet again, improve that year one was closer to what this team is actually all about than you.

So I'm talking about the years of the talk and regime. And it's a great question because I don't know if they would make the same decision if they weren't on the hot seat, if there wasn't so much pressure coming from all these. I don't want to say outside sources like Quinn Hughes is within the organization, but that's, you're not serving the team and the market

and your owner at that point. You're also serving your captain and his future and his contractual future, which is entirely up in the air. Well, could the reason be that they want to hold on to him now is because the offers also just haven't been good? Yes. Like, he probably just doesn't have a lot of value.

And they're like, these offers suck. And we're not gonna get back at anyone even close to Pedersen's highest potential, as Bruff was saying. So why would we risk trading this guy for peanuts when there's a chance that he could bounce back and get 100 points again? Yes. Right.

And the counter argument to that is you might not even get peanuts. What's worse than peanuts? If it gets... What's an inferior nut? Yeah, yeah. Macadamia, Brazil, those are expensive. No, those are good nuts. Macadamia is like...

If PD gets to Macadamia... If there's a Macadamia on the table right now... Yeah, you take it. Yeah. PD for Macadamia nuts is a great trade expensive. No, those are good. Macadamia is like, if Petey gets to Macadamia. If there was a Macadamia on the table right now. Yeah, you take it. Yeah, Petey from Macadamia Nuts is a great trade. What are you gonna do with that walnut over there? Anything? You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.

And what we just have to call Thomas Dranz Erotica Corsi Thomas Grange Erotica Expected Goals Thomas Grange Erotica Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas,

Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, and 802 On a Thursday happy Thursday everybody half for the prep sports that 650 Half of the morning is brought to you by sands and associates BC's first and trusted choice for dead help with over 3,000 five-star reviews visit them online at sands-trustee.com We are an hour three of the program Thomas Drance from theic Vancouver and Canucks Talk is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off our three. Our three is brought to you by Campbell and Pound real estate appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell and Pound.

Visit them on the internet at Campbell-pound.com today. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. Guests on Sportsnet 650 call in on the hotline, powered by Power West Industries. Don't get caught in the dark when it matters most, visit them at powerwest.ca today. They keep the lights on.

Let's go now to that Power West Industries hotline. Thomas Drance joins us here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Drancer? How are you doing, gentlemen? We're good. We need your help with something. What do you need my help on? I'm happy to oblige.

We're trying to figure out the, how do I phrase it properly? I'm not good at talking on the radio. The cost that it would be to acquire. Yeah, that's called the acquisition cost. That's the one, the acquisition cost to get Marco Rossi out of Minnesota. Do you have any thoughts on this? I know you do. I do, but I don't have like a straight answer for you that history tells us it

would be this, that, or the other thing. I think the truth on Rossi is that his profile is odd enough that we're probably not looking at, you know, a valuation that matches his deployment or production or overall profile last season, right? You know, the, I think Rossi is one of those guys where from a Canucks perspective or from any other team with center needs, you know, it's a don't overthink it profile. You know, he's 23. He had 60 points last year.

He played top line minutes for the Minnesota wild. Um, you know, that's what I would bet on in terms of a profile and, and, and a player with that profile typically is not available, like don't, doesn't shake loose. So it's pretty difficult to, um, set. Sort of evaluation on the trademark it in, in part, because it's pretty difficult to, um, set the sort of evaluation on the trademark in, in part, because it's like, yeah, that's like that, that guy should go for more than Ryan Kessler.

The thing is, or sorry, it's more than Ryan Kessler, more than Bo Horvat. Right. Like that, that's a Bo Horvat type return based on that profile. The thing is, is that that's not really the profile, right? He's five foot nine and we don't see a lot of first or second line centermen who are five foot nine, right? There are teams that would view him as not an ideal fit with how they want to play. Um, he barely produced in the playoffs and barely played in the playoffs, right?

He ended up being a fourth liner in the playoffs, which is a big part of why we're here. Um, and he's about to be really expensive on a second contract valuation. And that would all, I think, restrain his value. So, so realistically, what it's going to come down to is how many bidders are there, how many teams are willing to make the bet on an undersized top six center whose own team didn't think he could hack it in the postseason. My view is, my view is like every single guy who shakes loose, whose team

thinks he's not a winner in the playoffs is exactly the profile that I want. Like that's exactly the profile that I want. And that's what Buffalo felt about Sam Reinhart. That's what the entire industry felt about Jack Eichel. Um, you know, that that's what people said about Matthew Kachak during his time in Calgary. Um, like Nick Benino, remember Nick Benino who couldn't get it done in the playoffs, right?

Like that's the profile I like more than any other from the perspective of an acquiring team and whether it's Rossi or Jason Robertson, you know, there's a lot of guys who are, we're going to be talking about for the next three weeks, who sort of match that description. So sort of put it together and maybe like a premium version of what the Chicago Blackhawks netted for Kirby Doc when they traded him to the Montreal Canadians. That was the 13th overall pick and an additional draft pick, an additional sort of third rounder,

something in that mold, like something between that and what the wild netted for Kevin Fiala when they got a first round pick and Brock Faber a couple years back. Now Brock Faber wasn't Brock Faber then, right? Like that sounds like a huge prize to pay. But at the time, like LA was looking at him as like a signing risk college free agent who had potential, but also hadn't produced a ton in college. So he was, you know, like more, more like a Volander profile. So somewhere between Volander and 15th overall and 15th overall in a third round pick, kind of in that mix with sort of the second asset being

where, where the two teams would haggle and try to find a price point that both are a little uncomfortable with. Are there any players that match Rossi's profile in terms of young centers that could be available in a trade? Not up, I mean, Trevor Zegress, if you want to consider him a center. But he hasn't had the production that Rossi has.

Well, he's had more production. He's had more production at a younger age with better underlying numbers and fewer elite line mates to play with. It's just you have to go back a couple of years to get there. I mean, he's two years older, but when he was 23, he had two consecutive 60-ish point seasons with a bigger play driving impact. And his best line mate was Sonny Milano, not, you know, Matt Boldy or, I always want to say Kuznetsov, it's such a disease, Kaprizov. Right. or I always want to say Kuznetsov, it's such a disease, Kaprizov. Right. And so, yeah, I mean, I would argue anyway

that like actually Zegras's profile is more, actually I would argue that Zegras's profile is more impressive in some ways, right? It's just that he's a couple of years further along in his career and maybe comes with larger red flags. I also don't know if he is gonna stick at center, right? Like he wins like 40% of his draws. So he's a guy who's capable of giving you minutes at center,

but I don't know that that's where he's gonna fit long-term on a winning team. What would be the price tag relative to Rossi for Trevor Ziegres, do you think? Well, I think there's a greater degree of motivation probably to move Trevor Ziegres, do you think? Well, I think there's a greater degree of motivation probably to move Trevor Ziegres. Ziegres' profile is one we see move more commonly. You know, guy who's out of,

he's extension eligible in July 1. It's pretty clear like the, whether it was that Montreal Canadians traded the draft that Elliott Friedman reported a couple of years ago, or all the rumblings every time we hit a deadline or, or, or a draft period. Really ever since he signed that three year bridge contract, there's been rumblings that the ducks are prepared to move on. We just saw them acquire Chris Crider.

We kind of know what direction Pat Verbeek wants to steer this in. And it's a, it's a more physical direction, I think. Um, you know, generally speaking, maybe a faster direction to Zgress is, you know, a strong skater, but not a burner. And so, yeah, I mean, I think you'd be probably looking at, you know, I mean, I think you'd be looking at a mid first round pick, maybe, but, uh, but it's possible that it would be even less than that, uh, given sort of the overall profile and how long he's been available on the trade market for, um, you know, he, he

honestly might be like first round equivalent sort of trade value and he might even be less than that, given some of the question marks that surround him at the moment. Um, how easy is it going to be to sign some or find some guys that bring some size and strength to the top six. And you don't want to try and fit a guy in just because he's big. That rarely works. But you know what I mean?

Like he's big. You got to be good. You got to be able to play. You got to be able to play and you can't just chase size and strength. With all my instincts saying the connects got to get bigger. I also know you can make your team worse if you try and chase those things. Do any names come to mind of players the Canucks

could go after? Because look, I mean, there's no question that, you know, the Canucks could use some bigger dudes out there. I mean, I wish I had an easy answer for you, but I look across, for example, this free agent market and I don't see much in the way of big physical guys who can also score. I don't see a Zach Hyman player type necessarily available on the unrestricted free agent market. So you're probably looking at trading for a guy. Realistically, I think you're probably looking at speculating on a guy. You know, like trying to find some guy who's, you know, whether they're at the HL level or the, you know, early in their career,

kind of looking for that, you know, looking for a reverse facility pod goals in trade, effectively. But yeah, I mean, you know, and like chasing size and athletic traits, I don't really have a huge problem with it provided that the opportunity cost of that chase doesn't leave too much hockey sense on the, on the table. Like I still think when it comes to, for example, drafting pod Coles in ninth overall, um, you know, you can sort of look through guys who went after him, whether it's like Cole Caulfield or, or what have you, I guess Matt Boldy is the one that hurts, but, uh, and sort of second guess that decision. But you know, you, you've seen, despite the turnover in game three there in

Florida, you know, you've seen what pod Colson can do at this time of year. Like you've seen how important his sort of wide bodied high work rate, defensively responsible style of play has meant to the Oilers as this playoff run has gone along. Right. And that's what the Canucks were hunting for explicitly with that pick. Right. I mean, they'd, they'd sort of built this young core group around a bunch of slider players and they felt that they needed a bowl. They were hoping for more offensive upside obviously and obviously his development was I think botched by multiple different coaches and multiple different regimes and frankly the KHL factor too. But that doesn't change the fact that you know when you when you

look at it from the perspective of like what were they betting on, that's not one of those picks that I think is fair to look back on and be like, Oh man, that, what were they thinking? It's like, I know exactly what they were thinking. And when I watched the Stanley Cup playoffs, I see what they were thinking. And by the way, I don't have a problem with placing that bet, right? Like that's to me, that's the level of chase that you need. Um, you know, and, and in terms of doing that again, this off season or, or looking for bigger body players, I mean, you know, one, one guy that I'd like a couple of guys that I'd point to is you, you've got guys like Carlson and Archdeep Baines who've done some pretty special things in the Calder Cup

playoffs here, and I know it's the HL and I know they're older guys and they're probably not like breakout stars, but they wouldn't be the first guys that we've seen crush it in the American league level have sort of play out, play off breakouts, you know, teams look at it and think like, yeah, but they're probably just a ham and egg or, but you know, go, go look at, go look at players who have led their teams to the Calder Cup final with very little profile in the past five, six years.

And you'll see a lot of guys like Jalen Chatfield who weren't sexy. And it turns out as a pretty damn good player or Trevor Moore in Los Angeles, um, you know, who was, who was sort of a running mate for Andreas Johansson on that Marlies Calder Cup run. And everyone thought it was Johansson that was the future star, but Moore has been the guy who's been a consistent

20 goal scorer and hit 31 year, right? Um, Mason Marchman was kind of an out of nowhere guy from those ranks. Like I think speculating on size in that manner, uh, you sometimes get hits because, you know, even if those guys aren't like the fastest guys, like Marchman's not the fastest guy. Um, there, there's some uniqueness in that profile and it's not uncommon for those guys to sort of put it together kind of late.

So, I mean, that's sort of one approach, but I don't see a lot in free agency that's worth chasing, especially because it's gonna be super expensive. You're gonna end up paying like a premium for a Yakov Trenin caliber guy. And I don't think that gets you any closer to winning. You're better off hoping Joshua bounces back, you know, really, really committing to blooding guys like Baines and, um, and Carlson next season in my view.

And then, you know, if you're able to find a bigger trade target, yeah, that, that would be sort of, especially if it's an unproven guy, right. That reverse pod calls and profile. Like that would be sort of, especially if it's an unproven guy, right? That reverse pod Cole's in profile. Like that's how I'd go about addressing it. Because I do think if you're just pretending that a guy is Zach Hyman because he's six foot three, I think that's where mistakes get made that are genuinely costly.

What about cap dumps or salary dumps? It might not necessarily be a cap crunch, but maybe a salary dump. Um, or it might be both. I don't know where William Carlson's game is, but if Vegas gets aggressive, and they usually do, I wonder if William Carlson might get moved. I know he had a down season, but he produced a little bit in the playoffs for Vegas, and he's a guy that's done some really good things in the NHL before.

Yeah. I mean, my rule on cap dump players is look at the players that you want from X team that might have to move a player for cap reasons and then know in your heart that they will find a better option, right? Like, you know, the, the Tampa Bay thing, for example, over the years during the flat cap era, where it was like, how can they keep all these guys? And then it's like, they're trading Ryan McDonough, like they're going to trade their old defenseman, you know, that's, that's basically always the answer.

I mean, you're already starting to hear rumblings about like Nick Hague, um, you know, in terms of players being available, uh, with Vegas Carlson may have had a down season by the counting stats, but when push came to shove and they needed an answer, um, you know, in the, in the first round against, um, who did they play again? They played, uh, no, no, no, sorry. They played Minnesota, Minnesota. Yeah. And they needed when they needed an answer at the top of the lineup, because Boldy and Kaprizov were running rough shot over them in the first three games of the series, the answer that Bruce Cassidy

went to and that worked was throw Carlson onto the line with Jack Eichel, right? That team doesn't act as if William Carlson had an off season. They acted like he was the solution to their problem in the first round and he was. Um, so I would lower my gaze sort of further down the lineup, you know, the, uh, golden Knights have a lot of attractive players. I think you're right to be thinking about like, what if X team wants to clear space to take X big swing? I think that is going to be a source of talent, like a secondary market for for player acquisition this summer.

Not unlike the Nate Schmidt trade, the trade that brought Nate Schmidt to Vancouver because the Golden Knights were signing Pietrangelo. But for the most part, it's good teams that'll be making these bets. It'll be good teams making these bets with a knowledge edge of knowing which players that are disposable or dispensable and not, right? Knowing what areas of the roster they want to upgrade. And so I'd sort of lower my sights beneath a William Carlson. I think if Vegas wanted to save money to acquire high-end wing talent, I feel like Carlson's

not where that discussion even starts for them, right? I think they'd be, I think you're talking about guys far lower down the lineup. I think you're talking far more likely about, honestly, even Ivan Barbachev who really struggled to finish in the playoffs, even a Nick Wah or Brett Howden or Nick Hague caliber guy. Like I think the idea of Carlson,

like I'd be shocked if Vegas was interested in doing that. Carlson's just too good defensively, too important to what they do and his contract is too attractive. I just would be shocked if they view just about anything as an upgrade on having him in their lineup. What do you think about what's going on with Dallas right now? We hear Jason Robertson's name in trade rumors,

obviously, but I wonder if they might look to move out guys like, I don't know, a Mason Marchment. I know he's only got one left on his deal, but if the acquisition cost is, you know, a salary dump cost, then maybe that's an option for the Canucks. I know it wouldn't necessarily be kind of a long term thing, or maybe it could be, but I just wonder if the Canucks are going to have to make a few deals like that where he might not be here for a long time,

but hopefully it's a good time. Yeah, and I think Marchman's an attractive option for a club like Vancouver to consider. I think there's ways to structure it so that you, uh, at least get an opportunity permission to talk to his representatives beforehand and gauge, you know, his openness to an extension, uh, in a Canadian marketplace. Um, he's a really good player. Like he's a really good player.

He's been a pretty consistent 40 plus point guy, six foot five. I mean, there's a lot to recommend Mason Marchman and he'd certainly bring a unique element to a team like Vancouver and stands out on that Tampa Bay roster or sorry, that Dallas stars roster, especially if they're going to try to keep guys like Grandland and do Shane as a player, they might have to consider moving, uh, you know, one other option, other option with Dallas that I think is worth keeping in the back of your mind is if you're willing to take on one of their bad contracts, right? I mean, that might be the cost of acquisition, right? In fact, maybe you can get another piece if you're

willing to take on like Matt Dumbuz, 4 million. Now, Vancouver has a pretty loaded blue line. That would be a difficult one to do. You'd be spending most of your cap space right there. has a pretty loaded blue line, that would be a difficult one to do. You'd be spending most of your cap space right there. Uh, but yeah, I mean, there's all sorts of ways, I think, to make deals, whether it's for Robertson or, or Marchman appealing for Dallas. And I'd imagine that there'll be a couple of teams that are very much willing to consider doing so, especially those teams with like 40 million in cap space.

I mean, if you're a team like Columbus, right, you're already this fun rush attacking team and, and there's a way to get Jason Robertson without messing with your Kent Johnson, Marc Chenko, sort of core group of young players, right? Like multiple first round picks. And we're willing to take the two years left on the Bushkins deal. And we're willing to eat Matt Dumba's contract. We're willing to do both. Hell, we're willing to do both. We have 40 million in calf space. You know, I think that's one of those deals where I think a lot of teams and maybe even Vancouver, although they don't have that level of cap flexibility,

they don't have that ocean oceanic level of cap flexibility. Like, I think those teams should absolutely be willing to do it to land a player of that caliber. But yeah, I think you're right to identify Dallas as one of the biggest wild cards given, you know, that they are clearly willing to be very aggressive to revamp this team. I mean, Rantan, the Rantan trade is a clear signal of intent. Firing Pete DeBoer is a clear signal of intent. Like this is a team that wants to get over the top now.

Like they're tired of knocking on the door now. And, and I'd expect them to significantly reimagine that roster over the course of the next few months. We're speaking to Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on the Halifax and the Rough Show on Sportsnet 650. Speaking of the loan coaching vacancy in the NHL right now in Dallas, let's turn our attention to Manny Melhotra and the Abbotsford Canucks. They will begin the Calder Cup final tomorrow. That's Friday in Charlotte. Now I want to ask about what this run means and who's gonna

benefit from it. Let's start with what it means for Manny Melhotra and his coaching future because I know you wrote about this recently on The Athletic. Yeah I mean the main thing is the American League is a developmental league for everybody. And the history or the recent history of coaches that lead their team to the final makes it abundantly clear that this level of team success, right, causes the vast majority of head coaches to move on. And that's not a bad thing. That's not a negative thing.

That's not taking a positive story and putting a negative spin on it. That's just the reality that an American league head coach is going to get an opportunity. Often that opportunity falls within the organization they're already working in. Three of the last eight coaches to work a Calder Cup final ended up being the head coach for their own organizations and HL team within a year or two.

A fourth, Ryan Worsofsky was poached by the San Jose Sharks to be an assistant for a couple of years and is now a head coach. But yeah, I mean, we see a lot of these guys move on, you know, seven of eight, like seven of eight moved on from either their job because they got promoted or left their organization within a year or two. So head coaches who have this level of success at the American League level, it's often a signal that they're damn good at what they do, like that they're damn good at leading a hockey team and as a result that ups their leverage internally and that ups their profile around the league and tends to result in them moving on eventually. I think from sort of more holistic sort of point of view, what I'd say is, you know, the Canucks took a pretty big gamble moving on from a elite American

league bench boss, right? Like a guy with a ton, a big track record of success and a ton of experience in Jeremy Collin, uh, to hire Malhotra in the first place a year ago. And that looks like it's been a absolute, like no doubter knew it off from the sound of the bat, uh, over the fence home run. And you know, that's a, that's a overwhelmingly positive thing. You, you're very happy to look at what, what success Malhotra has helped that team have and, and sort of know that the Canucks clearly have, you know, a pretty

talented bench boss in the organization at the moment at the American league level. That Dallas vacancy obviously is going to loom large here and in the event that they go in a different direction, which I think we'd expect, but anything can happen. Malhotra sure certainly has the profile of a guy that could take an accelerated path to the NHL. But yeah, what's clear is that beginning in the fall of next year, everyone's going to be talking about Malhotra as like one of the hot candidates

for every vacancy that comes available now going forward. Like that's that's coming, whether it comes over the next two weeks or whether it comes over the next two years. Like that's that's coming. And this run has solidified it as it should. He's done an incredible job. Uh, now we turn our attention to the players, which players will matter at the NHL level from this Abbotsford run.

Yeah. And sort of coming back to what I was saying about Baines and Co, like when you look through teams that make it to this level at the American, uh, in the American league playoffs, so the Calder Cup playoffs, you know, generally speaking, there's like, there's there's a player or two that matters at the NHL level a few years down the line. And you look back at that roster and you'll be like, oh, yeah, oh, they have, of course, they were good. Like they had that guy. We just didn't know how good he was. There tends to be a guy or two like that on just about every roster.

And a lot of those names are familiar to connects fans. So Chatfield comes up to me in Carolina, but like Dakota Joshua with the Springfield Thunderbirds a couple of years ago is another example where, you know, like, oh, man, this American League players having a great run in the playoffs. And, you know, within two years, we're watching him be 20 goal per 82 rate stat guy at the NHL level and make a difference playing top six minutes for an NHL playoff team. And it's like, Oh yeah, he's probably just good. Right. I think he was

probably just good. And I guess what's sort of difficult is when you kind of go over the history of these lineups and what they look like, it's kind of difficult to tell. Like it's hard to know who's actually driving the success of this team, right? Or the success of any American League team that makes it to this level. And so I think one kind of takeaway from that is oftentimes we'll see teams react to their club success at the American League level by kind of like moving on from some of these guys, either selling high or maybe not knowing what they have. Like a lot of these guys who break out in the playoffs, have good runs, end up sort of being, you know, and not just like low upside NHL players either, not just like Luke Glenn Denning types, although that's another good example, but also guys like Marchman,

guys like Trevor Moore, guys who are top six players, top line players, unique profiles, grinders of the highest order. And so I think you have to be open-minded to the idea that while we often look at guys like Sasan and Carlson and Baines as being like low upside if they ever make it, right? The fact that this team's enjoying so much success increases the probability that one or two of those guys

are actually like actually might matter in the NHL over the next couple of years. Right. And I wouldn't overestimate our ability to sort of parse that for ourselves, right? Like I wouldn't say that I can tell you which of those three guys it is. So I just kind of think what what this means for the players in my view anyway, I think the Canucks should just be betting in bulk on this group. Like they've obviously got a group with enough dog in them

to go deep in the Calder Cup playoffs. That tends to matter. It tends to tell you something about the talent level, the hunger of this group. And I think betting in bulk on that group, on this sort of cohort of players, like it's far more likely, for example, to produce, you know, one impact NHL player who can play top six for you, then, you know, like using the fact that they've had a strong sell-off playoff run to like sell off some pieces for mid-round picks or marginal value or to boost

the attractiveness of some packages for win now pieces. I'd sort of bet in bulk on this group. I'm impressed in what they've done as a group. And I think there's actionable takeaways from that for the organization. Drancer, this was great, but thanks for taking the time to do it. Cheers boys, be well. See you later. Thomas Drantz from the Athletic Vancouver here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.