Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 6/18/26

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, plus they discuss the latest 'Nucks news with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. The Vancouver Golden Eyes select from the University of Wisconsin, defenseman KK Harvey. It's that time of the year. Lots of chatter the teams are calling about Elias Pedersen. I am shocked, shot. Shot!

Well, not that shocked. Got it. Louis Barlin dominates the Red Sox here in the bottom of the ninth inning. Good morning Vancouver, 601 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. It is Halford. It is Brough. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming here live from the Kintech Studios in beautiful Mount Pleasant in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Hey, Adah, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie. Good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Are you drowning in tax debt if you are? Sands and Associates can often reduce your debt by up to 80%

with no upfront fees. Visit them today at sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Banker's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal recycling, they recycle you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming live from the Kintech Studios.

Step Strong with Orthotics and Footwear from Kintech. If you want to text into the show, show today. Maybe you're nervous about the Canada Qatar match and need a little support. The Dunbar Lumber Text Line is 650, 650, trusted by contractors and DIY champions across Metro Vancouver for generations. Find them at three convenient locations or visit Dunbar Lumber online today. Okay, let's get into our morning guest list. It's the Duick

Morning Drive brought to by the Duick Auto Group begins at 630. John Molinaro is going to join the program, Sportsnet Soccer Insider. 3 o'clock from BC Place, Canada taking on guitar, as Jason mentioned, in a massive match to see who gets out of their World Cup group. John's going to join us at 6.30 to preview the game. 7 o'clock, Adnan, Verk from MLB Network. We actually really need this hit with Adnan today because with the World Cup starting and all the hockey news happening, I am absolutely lost with baseball right now. Just have no idea what's going on.

Adnan's going to help us with that. Get us up to speed with the Jays. Does Vlad Guerrero have four home runs yet? We're going to find out at 7 o'clock with Adnan Verk. That's going to be your lead question. What's going on with baseball? Deal with baseball these days. Adnan Burke from MLB Network is going to join us at 7.

7.30 sportsnet golf analyst Adam Stanley is going to join. As if we needed another major sporting event right now, the U.S. Open is underway from Shinnock Hills in New York. Play got underway about an hour ago. There was a fog delay this morning. We'll check in live from Shinnock. Adam's there on location. He's going to join us at 7.

That course is going to be a beast. Between the weather, it sounds like it's very challenging. I didn't, I didn't do a ton of research into Shinnock, I'll admit, but I read a little bit about it last night. It seems like it's going to be really tough. 8 o'clock Thomas Trance is going to join the program. Athletic Vancouver Canucks talk. The Canucks rumors really took off yesterday. Multiple NHL insiders reporting the team is ready to move on from a lot of players, a lot of veteran skaters.

It's not even a tear it down to the studs rebuild. It's a burn it to the ground. round rebuild. What's Dranser hearing? We're going to find out at 8 a.m. Also at 8 a.m. We are giving away another pair of tickets to the Outdoorsman and Conservation Festival. That gets underway on June 26th in Squamish.

It goes the 26th and the 27th. Visit them online at OCFFest.C.A. for more. Caller number 5 at 8 a.m. this morning, 604-280-0-650. You go to that every year, don't you? Oh, what a lineup. You can't wait. It's one of your favorite.

outdoorsman and conservation festivals. It may be the best one of them all. So caller number 5 at 8 a.m. 604, 280, you'll win a pair of tickets for that. We got a lot to get into on the program. Without further ado, Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was, we know how busy your life can be. What happened? I missed that? You missed that? What happened is brought to you by ATS traffic.

start with a career path in traffic safety, receive competitive wages and training at one of Canada's best managed companies. Visit them online at aTS traffic.c.c. Despite all the stuff going on in all the sports, we got to start with the Vancouver Canucks and the rumors are heating up as we get closer to the draft and the start of free agency. Yeah, the draft is next Friday. And it's Thursday today. So, eight days away. And there were multiple reports yesterday from the likes of Rick Dollywell, Thomas Strant, Pierre Lebrun, that suggested the connects were looking to unload more contracts this offseason and that players like Elias Pedersen, Brock Besser, and Jake DeBresk were available to be traded.

Now, that DeBrusk is available is no surprise. He probably made himself available, given his hints last season that he didn't really want to be part of a rebuild. Well, be sure in one now. The situation with Pedersen and Bessor is a little different because despite what was said publicly, we weren't really sure what the Canucks were thinking with those two or what those two were thinking about their future with the Vancouver Canucks. LeBron went on Edmonton radio and said the Canucks, quote, want to tear it all down. he also said

and I think this is very important that he think this is this is news okay if he's right I'm leaning in that he thinks the connects would be willing to retain salary on a Pedersen trade which is something that's thought to have been a non-starter under

the previous regime which of course signed Pedersen to his current contract not too long ago but right around the time Pedersen's game fell off a cliff. LeBrun did qualify that a team he spoke with wasn't sure that they could get Pedersen back to a level that would justify a trade, even with salary retained. And that makes sense because nobody sure if Pedersen will ever rediscover his form. It's a bizarre situation with him, and it would take a big gamble to pick up his contract,

even at a discount because of how long the contract is. But at the same time, the payoff could be huge if a change of scenery reignites something in him. I just want to get a few through a few things here. Yeah, go ahead, man. Yeah, we haven't spoken as much about Besser, who just a year ago looked like he would be signing elsewhere. but you'll remember the Canucks struck out in free agency

and came back to Bessor's camp with an offer that he signed on July 1st and here we are today and the Canucks are apparently looking to move that contract. So why are the Canucks trying to move these players? Well, lots of reasons. One is that they want to change the culture. And to change the culture, you often have to change the personnel, especially the highest paid personnel. They also want to bring in some new,

players and give those guys an opportunity, whether those are young players or high character veterans, they sign in free agency or acquire in trades. Finally, you have to wonder if at least some of this has to do with saving money. Sure. The Canucks, sounds like they're going to be running a pretty lean operation over the next few years. Sorry, Dranser, but I don't think they're going to be going out and spending crazy money in free agency. Yes, they still need to hit the salary cap.

floor, but they also need the budget space to go out and acquire new players. Okay. So the big news yesterday really was that, you know, the Canucks want to keep dismantling. And they might even be willing to retain salary on Elias Pedersen, which, which again, if LeBron is right on this, um, that's. That's news. Can we just pause a moment and appreciate what a massive indictment this change, of course, represents? I'm willing to pause and reflect.

I really want everyone to stop and think about what the Seneens and Ryan Johnson must have been thinking about this team over the last few years, even though they worked for the team. they weren't making the decisions. They've already basically said it without actually saying it, but bad culture, bad leaders, not involved enough in the community, not a team the fans could be proud of.

I mean, other than that, things were great. I think they thought, you know, Linus Carlson made some, nice strides, but, you know, other than that, I mean, they probably felt the same as we did, about the team. Probably. Yeah.

The proof sometimes is in the pudding, Jason. Yeah. You're seeing the pudding get made right now. So I guess we also have to wonder what happens if the Canucks aren't able to move Pedersen or Bessor. I'm confident they'll be able to move to Brusk.

Are they willing to retain on Besser 2? I really don't like the idea of retaining on either of them, to be honest. These are long-term contracts. And you only get three retention slots. They're already retaining on Tyler Myers for next season. Sometimes you need those slots. Sometimes you need them for, I don't know, not too long, but sure. The trade deadline, right?

Okay, we'll retain for the rest of the year, right? Like, I do not see them retaining on Bessert and Pedersen. And frankly, I still think that they're going to be hesitant to retain, but if they are willing to retain, that just says so much about how they think, like, some guys just, like, no, we got to move on from this player. How awkward is that going to be, though, if they can't trade these guys that they're like, we want, we want to move on from. Could they maybe build like a separate dressing room for the players

who aren't going to help build the new culture, but more renovations and Rogers. But also aren't movable? I mean, I don't want to use the word shun. And I don't think they need to wear a scarlet letter. anything but okay never mind that's a bad idea if they're part of the team they're part of the team but I'm just trying to

I'm trying to I'm getting thinking you're thinking creative I'm just I'm just throwing out I'm just throwing out these ideas okay I'm an ideas guy just trying to come up with stuff but you know RJ listing fiercely scribbling down notes I do

I mean they can't buy Pedersen out the contract is it's buyout proof and like they're not going to do that and he he they shouldn't have to okay with with all the teams out there looking for centers and if they are willing to retain salary you know they they they should be able I guess they should be able to to trade them depending how much salary they are willing to retain but if they ultimately don't decide to do that and they've tried it so many times like it's not going to get any more normal

with peters okay here's my my my thinking on this and I do believe that the previous regime, in part because it was their signatures, like, you know, theatrically speaking here, on the Pedersen contract, right? It was... They were the ones that strong-armed them into it. You know, I've often said that I think the Jim Rutherford era in Vancouver, now that it's over, is largely defined by the fact that he did the Pedersen. Okay?

I honestly don't think we're critical enough of Jim Rutherford and what he did. Yeah, we just don't have the bandwidth for the... this morning. It is crazy. Because we're trying to look forward. We're ideas guys now, right? We're trying to figure out how we can help this thing along. I think the previous regime was always convinced

that they made the right move with Pedersen, that the contract wasn't an anchor, and that when they entered into these contract negotiations, sorry, trade negotiations and talks with other teams, it was never about freeing themselves from Pedersen.

It was always about what are we going to get back and return and what you know how tangible an asset is this for us in a trade you know what i'm saying like they never viewed it as we need to get rid of this because in part i think there was some hubris involved absolutely absolutely it's it's you that they'd have to admit they made a mistake then i think the new regime is freed from all of those ties and you know what i thought about when you know you were going through all of these different notes from yesterday was what shana goldman said on our show yesterday about Darnell Nurse, talking about his ticket and how the Oilers might have to retain. And she's like, you know, if you can break down his game into it sort of, and you can compartmentalize the parts of what he's decent at,

you could make an argument that his ability to skate and his strength and his reach, he becomes a viable four or five defensemen at a reasonable ticket if you retain some of the money. And I thought, can you apply that same logic to Pedersen with some other teams right now? Like, hey, we know at 11.6, that's a lot to swallow. But at a reduced rate, can you talk yourself into a guy that's probably going to give you 50 to 60 points, is going to play reasonably sound defensive hockey and might rebound even a little bit more? I just want to throw something out there. Because if you go on the premise of Petterson, goes to a team and he's the third line center, right?

So is that your premise? Maybe a two? Okay. But let's say he's the third line center. Yeah. Okay. Or even the two. It doesn't matter.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So if he's the third line center on a team, he's not playing with the best wingers. He's not getting as much ice time as he did in Vancouver. He's not on PP1. This notion that he's automatically going to put up 50 or 60 or 60 points is wrong.

But that's the, that's the cell. That's what you're selling. That's the sell. Also, he's never played with good wingers. Put him with good wingers. Maybe he generates more points. I'm just saying that's a narrative that's always out there. That was the only part of your hypothetical

I would have pushed back on him. Like you always hear that. He wasn't playing with great wingers ever here. He piled up so many secondary assists this year by passing the puck back to Heronic. Yeah. The power play. And Heronic would shoot it in either score or

get tipped in. Be like another point for PD. He's not going to get the opportunity to do that on other teams. Yeah, but you put him with a decent winger, like a to Foley or something, and not saying he's playing with that. That kind of a player, he's talented enough that he could generate points. But let's not get... He has a good vision.

Let's not get bogged down in this part of that. So maybe that's how the Canucks could sell it, though, I'm saying. It's like you talk to a GM, hey, you guys got good wingers, but you don't have a good center. Well, this center can make your wingers better and vice versa. So there's your cell. This center is not going to make your wingers better, though. Well, it's a good playmaker.

Let's not get bogged down in this part of it, though, because I think the major takeaway from yesterday, and what you appropriately phrased is the news of the day, is the report from LeBron that they were willing to retain on a deal. So we just had a text in unsigned to the Dunbar-Lumber text message in Baskin. It said, boys, they aren't going to trade him now while his value is at its lowest Pab. Or they shouldn't anyway.

His value can still rise. And realistically, the Kinnock can still want extra picks in the 20-29 draft so that they're staggering ELCs. there's so much time. To the texture, I would say this. You're looking at it from a purely analytical perspective in terms of what the asset means. I think you need to look at this in terms of the damage

that he might do being around the group and what the Siddins and Johnson have talked about in terms of culture, work ethic, habits, preparation, and what they want this group to be. I'll even go so far as to say, this might not even necessarily be just solely a Pedersome problem. I think to your earlier point, they want to gut this thing like a fish. And I know I've used that before because I've said it before.

But when the team is this lost and has so little soul and spirit and heartbeat to it, sometimes you need to do major surgery. And sometimes you need to deal guys at a loss. I understand that you would be trading him at his lowest debt. But I also understand that in order to, in order to truly move forward with a rebuild, sometimes you just have to say we're clearing the decks, we're getting rid of it all. And I know this is counterintuitive to a lot of analytical liens

who would say, you can't do that. You have to treat every asset as if it's an asset. But I would push back on that notion. Also the text is assuming PD will bounce back. Well, this is the notion that I'll disagree with. What's that? Because this is what we heard last year, or previous times when there's been considerations of trading Pedersen.

well his his value can't get any lower yes it can there there there is downside risk if you can actually trade him this offseason then i think they should do it because if you wait and you're like let's wait and recover his value how the hell is his value going to recover on this team i mean adog you're talking about the you know he's never played with any good wingers look at this team now well yeah but if you trade him, then maybe he will. No, no, no. You're not going to play with him on this team. You're not getting my point.

You just kind of came in too late there. But I'm talking about if you keep him, if you keep him, people seem like, oh, well, his value is going to go up. Not necessarily.

His value might go down even more where it's like, no chance. He's traded, like, no chance. Oh, I agree with you about that.

Like, none. Yeah, and you're not getting out of it, no way. You know, like, it could get to that point. Things could always get worse.

There's a downside. There's a downside risk to keeping him. And some people seem to think, like, this is as bad as it's going to get. No, if you can trade him right now, even if you have to retain a few mill, that's, it's like people say, you know, if your stock goes down from like 100 to 50. Well, I'm going to hold on to that because, you know, it's probably going to go up, right? It was at 100. now it's at 50. I mean, at 50, it's like, yeah, but what if the company is broken, right? Then you know what it goes down to? It goes down to zero. That's the next number.

It's Homer with the pumpkin stock. From one Vancouver franchise player to another. We now turn our attention to what happened last night at the PWHL draft. The Vancouver Golden Eyes have a new franchise player. Caroline Harvey, the first overall pick at the 2026 PWHL draft yesterday. The 23-year-old Harvey widely considered the best player in this draft class and appropriately. at least she went first overall. The first defender to be selected number one overall in PWHL history. Now, for a little more analysis on this pick, let's turn our attention to the number two pick taken by Seattle.

This is Abby Murphy out of the University of Minnesota, a rival of Caroline Harvey's in NCAA hockey. This is from the Spit and Chicklet's podcast with Ryan Whitney. Here's Abby Murphy talking about the newest member of the Vancouver Golden Eyes, Caroline Harvey. Caroline Harvey to me, like I was like, holy shit. Like seeing her skate. I know you guys are both O2.

She's a rival at Wisconsin, but how long have you kind of known her and realize, like, she has to be the best skating women's player, right? Yeah, dude, she's insane. I mean, she's on a whole other level, you know? Whoever taught her out of skates got to get a hell of lot of other people to learn from them,

but just the way she moves and her agility is incredible. I mean, when I watch her, like, work on the blue line, it's like putting people literally in blenders, like, back and forth. It's like they literally cannot keep up with her, but she's so impressive up there, you know, like watching her with the puck, Like, yep, let her do her thing and something's going to happen out of it. And it's just going to be like, holy shit.

Like she just did that. Like her goal against the Swiss. I don't know if you guys saw that. Yeah. Absolutely just down the wall made the goalie look like an idiot. Just like she's like Quinn Hughes. Like it was the same way. Like just such a better skater than everyone else.

And it's not even matched either. Like it's it's here to here. So props to her. But love playing with her hate playing against her. You know, so really cool. So the cool thing about the PWA draft. Just drafting near the top of it is that at 23

and having a bunch of Olympic experience, you're getting one of the best women's hockey players in the world. Like, it's not someone that needs to go in and cut their teeth at the professional level. We got the Quinn Hughes of the PDAO. Left shot. So she's gone in five years. Please never leave. Can we stop those comparisons now? Yeah. Before it gets any further.

So what do you like, she's such a good skater ladder. Yeah. But what do you? You've seen her play. It's, it is, it is unbelievable. And she's immediately going to become the most entertaining player on a team that I think we can both admit needed a little bit of like a structure from the back end to start the rush perhaps or just

structure sure but like more just like entertainment wow wow factor do we want to as someone who goes to a lot of goldenized games I'm very excited to see your play many many times do we want to try and work through the Quinn Hughes comp given how complicated it is of Vancouver market to deal with this right now? Because it's accurate.

I believe it's an on-ice comp. I know. Does Minnesota have a... I don't know if you would compare... Does Minnesota have a PWHL team? They do. Oh, gosh. We shouldn't do this.

We shouldn't do this. That makes it even more complicated because it's like the on-ice comp is pretty bang on. Can you imagine? It's hard not to make it. Right? But there's...

And honestly, it does give the market a sense of, like, yearning. Like, I remember that, right? And now we're going to be reminded of it. on a pretty regular basis. I think she's going to be terrific for the franchise. I think this Quinn Hugh stuff is funny, but it's a completely different league.

And I think she's going to be great. And the Golden Eyes, I think, did a great job last season off the ice. And everyone who went out to games there, Lattie, you went about to buy. Everyone said the same thing. So much fun in the building. And it was juxtaposed a little bit

to the Vancouver Canucks, right? And it was like, yeah, there's just such like a positive atmosphere in the rank. Everyone has a good time. They do a good job. It's kind of fun to be back in the Coliseum again. But their play on ice wasn't great. Remember, I mean, they were with the talent that they got in the expansion draft. Remember at the beginning of the year, they were the favorites to win it.

Everyone was angry at the expansion teams. Yeah. They stole all the talent on that turn out. You know, and it just, and it didn't work out for the, them and it didn't work out for Seattle either. I mean, it's hard to, it's hard to say, all right, you're all this is your new team. Now go, right? It is difficult.

And now they've changed their coach and they've got Caroline Harvey and hopefully they keep the same atmosphere at the golden ice and that carries on. But they need to do better on the ice now. They also drafted a messy A too, but we won't get into that right now. We don't have time or the bandwidth for that right now, Laddie. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. We just have to call Thomas Drance Erotica.

Thomas Grant's erotica. Coorsy. Thomas Grant's erotica. Expecting goals. Thomas Grant erotica. Dog model. Thomas Grant erotica. Regression.

Thomas Drands, Geronica. PEDY. Thomas. 801 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. Halford, Bradford, Brough, Sportsnet, 650. Halford & Brough of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Are you drowning in tax debt?

If you are, Sands and Associates can often reduce your debt by up to 80%. But no upfront fees. Visit today at sands dash trustee.com. We are now in our three of the program. Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Kinnockstock is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off our 3rd. This hour of the show is brought to by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies investing tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.ca.ca.ca.

We're coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Step Strong with Orthotics and Footwear from Kintech. We have a quick correction to address here on the show prior to break. Adog referred to Super Nintendo Chalmers' assistant from the Simpsons as Leon. Got it so wrong. It's actually Leopold. All right, you listen up, you little freaks.

That was my principal skinner got replaced. Keep going. That was the Armin Tanzarian episode, if I'm not mistaken. He's been in a bunch, the one where Marge was one of the, oh my God, the PTA is just abandoned. Oh, yeah, that's right too. Anyway, apologies to all of the Simpsons. Grave error. I know.

The Simpsons enthusiasts out there. People texted in right away. Very on brand for her show. to all the non-Simpsons enthusiasts. They're like, what are they talking about? What the hell is going on right now? What percentage is that really? Like 2%?

Who is the Leopold? Anyway, let's go now to the ABLE Auctions hotline. Our next guest, Thomas Trance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on the Halpernbrenbred Show on SportsNet 650. What up, Trancor? Gentlemen, good morning. Good morning to you. Things are really happening, eh?

Last 24 hours. A lot of news, a lot of notes, a lot of rumblings as it comes to the Canucks and what moves they may be making as we get closer to the draft and free agency. Yeah. And, you know, the new look for an office has spoken about a patient rebuild, about being willing to, you know, take the long view. And in terms of what that means over the course of the next three weeks, like the reports that veteran players with lots of term left on their deals are, you know, available, are that the club is trying to move them. I mean, isn't that just a match for what the commentary has been? I think we haven't had a ton of like really hard insight into sort of the specifics

underpinning that big picture vision of a patient through the draft, accumulate extra draft capital rebuild that Ryan Johnson and company have been discussing. But in terms of the big picture, like, yeah, I don't think we should be surprised that the Canucks are considering this. I mean, this is not only the only rational path forward to execute something that aligns with what Ryan Johnson's been talking about, but, you know, I think it's necessary, right? Like, it's, it's completely necessary. Pierre LeBron went on Edmonton radio yesterday and said that he thinks the Canucks would be willing to retain on Pedersen's contract, Have you heard that?

What do you think of that? I haven't heard it. I think it's complicated. I think the devil is often, as it often is in the details, especially when you're talking about, you know, any transaction that evolves, Elias Pedersen, before you even get to taking money back, you know, we're talking about 69 million nice in. salary cap liabilities. And we're talking about $64 million in salary liabilities through 2033, something like that, 2032, 233. We're talking about a massive contract. And when you're talking about a massive contract like that and you're talking about a player that's struggling, right? You're not talking about a player that's, you know, played well. Like, it's not like he went to the Olympics and lit it up,

right? Like, it's not like his struggles have only lasted for six months, right? Like, you're betting on rebuilding a guy who's paid like a top five center in hockey. Yeah. And hasn't looked like a dynamic, you know, top of the line up forward in two and a half years. So, you know, additionally, you're talking about a team that's talked a lot about wanting to reset their culture. And I think you can completely understand why incoming management, especially incoming management, who are folks that have at a front row seat to how this core has carried themselves in what's happened here,

would want a fresh slate, would want a clean slate. I think there are real risks from a value perspective to retention, obviously. specifically, this is a team that I think should be looking to aggressively rebuild value and short sell on assets across the next few years and retaining through basically the end of time. Like past the end of this CBA, sorry, past the end of the next CBA, which doesn't kick until September 15th, limits your ability to do so in real ways, right? It's going to limit your ability to do so in real waste. And additionally, Pedersen's contract itself over the course of the next two to three years, I think is likely to become an appealing trade asset on its own, whether or not he bounces back,

simply as the logic of cap growth works its way through the system as contracts swell, like their value of contracts swell. and as he gets to a point in 2029, so three years from now, which is, you know, granted, a fairly long chunk of time where he gets to the point where it's massively cash under cap, right, where he's only paid 7.8 or whatever in the last three years of the deal, while the contract itself is at 11.6. Factor in his signing bonuses, like there's going to be this moment where there's like a $15 million dollar gap between his cap liability and his salary liability.

And for teams that may be sputtering, struggling, unwilling to spend to the upper limit when it's a $140 million cap world, right, down the line, that could be a very appealing, a super appealing trade asset. Depending where he is, though, man, depending where he is, there's all these people that assume that it can't get worse. It can get worse. Well, okay, it can. course, but that, but you're also, I think you need to factor in that no matter what, once his

signing bonus is paid in those last three years, like the first signing bonus or whatever, so he's got two years at 7.8 plus two million in salary, right? Um, but he's taking up $34 million against Catholic. If I take back, uh, like a player with more salary than that, um, you know, even if it's a shorter term, like there's going to be ways to solve the problem that are straightforward or more straightforward than retaining, you know, a million, two million, whatever it is for a really hefty length of time, right? Like that's scary. That's scary to me. Now, that said, I think the way we should look at this in terms of sort of drawing lines in the sand before a trade, I think is to say that in the event that Ryan Johnson and Henrik and Daniel Sadine come to the conclusion that they can't move forward and execute their project with Pedersen on the roster, I think we should probably trust that.

Right. Like, my inclination is going to be to trust that, especially because if there's one thing that I do trust Ryan Johnson and the twins to do pretty unequivocally, it's to like assess leadership ability and the caliber of, various characters. And I'd sort of view it, regardless of the details, as being akin to when Bill Guerin came into Minnesota and bought out Parisian Souter. Right? He's like, I can't do it with these guys, even if it's going to hurt my team, even if there's going to be workarounds, even if there's costs, I can't do it like this. And I think if they come in and do that and that's their decision, my inclination is probably going to be not to look too much at the fine print and to just say, okay, like these are really experienced professional hockey players

you know in Johnson's case a 15 year executive the sedans are special people and if they think that this can't work with this guy here my inclination is to be like yeah trance we're losing you a bit here but yeah something's up with Thomas drance's phone we'll drop the call I think it might have lost connection to his microphone or something like that we are speaking to Thomas drans you're listening to the Halford & Brough show on sports net 650 a lot to parse through from yesterday so

just to recap, Rick Dollywall, Pierre LeBron, a variety of different insiders talking about how many moves the Canucks may make in terms of getting off some of these veteran players on longer term contracts, specifically, I don't know if you want to coin them the big three, but the three of Jake DeBrasque, whose name has already been in trade rumors, including those with Ottawa, Brock Besser, and then Alias Pedersen. The wrinkle with Pedersen now, and this was according to Pierre LeBron on Edmonton Radio, is that the Canucks are willing to entertain the idea of retaining salary on Pedersen. Whatever the case, this seems like tearing it back to the studs might not even be the proper descriptor

because this could be something where they just want to, I know I use burn it to the ground a couple times, but just get rid of everything that's been around. And I want to make this clear, not entirely an indictment on these individual players. culture eroding and the rot from within is a collective thing. You can't pinpoint one or two guys. It's unfair. These things don't just happen overnight. It doesn't just happen with one brief instance. It's a collection of people that you put together and the rot happens over time. The point of being...

Yeah, look at the station. Exactly. Right? It happens. It happens. There's rot. This is rotten. And then one day they shut you down. Yeah. With some lovely music playing in the background. But whatever the case. You can't, so I know it's going to sound harsh when we're like, get rid of Nebraska, get rid of Pedersen, get rid of Besser.

I just want to make it abundantly clear. Like individually, all these players are unique and different from one another. And this is no way finger pointing to one particular player for what's gone on over the last few years. But when you're cleaning house, it truly means cleaning house. Are we going to try this again? Go back now to the Able Auctions hotline. Thomas Drance rejoins us here on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Do we have you, Drancer?

Yeah, excuse me. I kept talking and then I guess we got disconnected. I didn't notice. Okay. A dog then calls me to get me back on the air. And I screen his call being like, oh, that's so annoying that someone's calling me.

I'm on a roll. I'm killing this. No, I mean, I think we got your general point about, about PD and, you know, comparing it to the situation in Minnesota where Bill Garon went in there and said, like, look, Yeah.

I can't do this. And, you know, so that's enough about PD for now. Sure. I want to talk about Besser. Because PD's value we can debate all day. DeBresque, I think most of us assume that the Canucks can trade his full contract as long as he's reasonable about places where he'd go. Maybe there'd be a bit of a debate about the return.

But we haven't, on our show at least, talked much about trading Besser. and if he'd be willing to go. And what his value would be? Because, I mean, look, if they're going to retain on PD, they can't retain on Besser as well. Like you can't tie up two retention slots for the next whatever, five or six or seven years, whatever it is. So with Besser, is that a contract you think could get moved in its entirety?

Yep. I'll be honest with you, gentlemen. I've been looking over rosters. I've been trying to think through different angles and ideas and what to expect and come up with smart lists of trade targets and UFAs. And I don't know that I can find a single immovable deal in the league. Like, you know, and I think the key part of this, so I put together, for example, a trade targets board.

And the first half of the board was like assets that would really excite Kinnock's fans, excited about the future, right? Like top 10 picks in the 2026 NHL entry draft, a future first, conditional, hope that it becomes way higher than the team you're trading with, you know, assumes it will be. Mason McTavish,

Maverick Bork, right? And then the bottom half of the list is like every bad contract in hockey, right? And it was funny to read the reaction because people are like, I like the top half. But why are you talking so frequently about trading

Horonic, they're not going to do that. And it's like, well, your only access to those is as we traded heronic pieces, right? And your access to the bottom ones is we traded the veterans you want to trade. Right? Your Scott Mayfield, Pierre Engval combo, right? Those guys take up a combined three point, or sorry, 6.5, they both have three million plus contracts for four years, by the way, four more years beyond this one. But you bundle those guys together and it's almost seven million. And if you're sending Besser in exchange, right, the Islanders start to look at that as a relatively cap neutral upgrade for the long term. Well, now you can start to get real assets for Brock Besser, right? And that's the key. Like that's, that's, that's the skeleton key here. Right. When, if you're

trading Brock Besser, it's not going to be easy, but if you can find one of those teams that has that sort of situation and you can put them in a position where like oh we're only spending 1.5 million in additional cap space but we're turning this bad money into Brock Besser who we think can help us for the long term all of a sudden you potentially have a stew or at least a way to make a Besser trade that's realistic that's palatable yeah to potentially both sides maybe not Brock Besser get Bo Horvat on the phone to talk him into it maybe right and And, you know, but that's how you have to think this through, right? Like for, you know, if you want to get, and for the Canucks, like if they want to get the maximum returns here,

they should be shopping in a grocery aisle that basically just like, you know, it's like, laundry detergent, rice, all the worst contracts in hockey, right? Like, that's the aisle you want to walk down. And, you know, I hope that the organizations wrap their head around this. And I hope, too, that management, like, I'll tell you what, the worst trade that you could see, I think, for the Canucks over the next two weeks is not the deal that returns Trent Frederick or Scott Mayfield or Darnel Nurse or, you know, Ilya Lubushkin or whatever bad contract you want to name. The worst contract you could see is the Canucks trading the full freight. of Brock Bessor's deal for like a conditional seventh in 2029. Right.

Like that's, that to me is a worse outcome. The pure we shed resources. Just because like I think you want to take players back. I think you, I think talent is going to be so scarce in this cap environment. Yeah. That you're going to actually. Like,

because you could make the argument that your trade would be. get rid of that and then sign a guy and that's kind of your trade but there isn't there isn't a great crop of free agents well also i'm not certain how the club's going like a there's not a huge crop of free agents be the competition for those free agents is going to push most of their valuations to you know extraordinary levels see you need to be mindful of the floor still right so and and d i'm not if the club does those sorts of moves having already done those sorts of moves with Garland and Myers, right? Like, I'm going to be worried about whether or not they have the resources to go spend.

And so, you know, like, I don't, we've arrived at this moment. It's kind of this, I had a little rant about this privately to Patrick Johnson after hearing his hit on a rival program. Lucky Patrick. And yeah. So you're going to get it now. So lucky you. And it's like.

If the Canucks are really belt tightening, and I think evidence is mixed enough that I'm going to wait and see and declare what I think, you know, once this offseason portion, the silly season has closed. But if they're really tightening the budget to a significant extent and it's going to affect player personnel spend and they're really battening down the hatches and going to be super disciplined about spending, I think in some ways that's the most Canucks thing ever. because if at any point over the last seven years, they'd gone into a single off-season at any point and operated with that sort of discipline, we wouldn't be in this spot. They wouldn't be in this spot. And yet now, at this moment,

at this moment, to do so is death. Like at this moment, to go into this off-season and not spend, to go to this off-season and be reluctant to take money back, right? But you understand, have you come to acceptance yet that you're not going to be able to will this into existence? Like it is not going to happen. But it's more philosophical that they're not going to do my fun free agent idea.

Yeah, they're going to be like our revenues. They're going to match the revenues with their expenses. No, no. Okay. I get it. But they're, and guess what? Their revenues are always going to match their expenses then. Because in this climate, in this climate,

right, where everyone has cap space, right? Like the new cap space is money. You need to use what's scarce if you're going to get ahead in the efficiency contest that is the hard-capped NHL. And the new cap space, like the new thing that's not players, that's not talent, that has as much or more value than players is cash. Cash, money. Like the willingness to spend the space to eat bad contracts,

that is how you can create value in this marketplace. And so, you know, if you're a big team in a hot Canadian market with millions of generational fans, many of whom in this city have deep pockets, right, if you have one of the most favorable radio broadcast rights deals and television broadcast rights deals in the league, right? And term on that deal, a big season ticket base. one of the highest ticket prices in the league, despite being in the circumstance you're in, despite having basically abused your fans across the past decade. And why do we even countenance that there's like business realities?

The business reality is that if you don't spend now in this environment, you're going to need like a worldwide rupture, like something bad to happen in real terms to change the economic dynamics of the league and get you back. to a point where you have a shot to contend. Otherwise, you're going to end up being Buffalo or Detroit or Chicago. Like, this is going to take forever. You need to use the scarce resources. If you're going to out-accumulate 31 teams, you know, by a significant enough margin that you catch up,

given that you're 20 points back of everyone else right now. Dr. Answer. In a reasonable time frame. Like, that's it. I don't know what else to say. You have to spend. Dr.ancer, you know what? I get a kick out of.

and when I say you get a kick out of, it triggers me so badly, is when you get the people that are like, of course they're going to cut their spending. It's a business. And I'm like, do you know how a lot of businesses start? And do you know how a lot of businesses build for the future? They spend. They operate at a loss.

They spend. They operated a loss. Like, I want to show you Amazon's books from about 10 or 15 years ago, because let me tell you, they weren't making money. Did you hear about that big SpaceX IPO? They're, you know, they had some upfront investment. And I know the Canucks aren't starting over because they've been around for a while, but they are starting over.

Well, also, this is a business. It's a sports and entertainment product. You know, like, it's a sports and entertainment product. This is not, you can't really compare it in some ways to, you know, private retail business or a private space launch business or what have you, right? This is entertainment. This is sports and entertainment. The truth is that you need to be competitive.

You need to be somewhat relevant. You need to excite fans. You need to give them a reason to believe. And for the Canucks, I mean, I don't think they need to win a ton of games. I don't think they need to make the playoffs to make fans believe. But I also don't think they can just like be a floor team that. it's not doing the sort of creative stuff required to excite fans during a rebuild. And the sort of stuff that excites fans during a rebuild is smart moves that gain future assets, right? Accumulate a

prospect system that fans can invest in, play a type of hockey that promotes young players and, you know, in which you can see like you could in Montreal over the last five years, like the, the, you know, thin outline of how a team will compete and how they'll play differently and what a team identity will look like now imagine it with better players right i mean that's that's the that's the goal here and i just don't think the avenues to accumulate those assets exist without this team spending into the skits so you know i think without that you're going to get especially in a market as savvy as this one um i think you're going to get fans that can see the seams that think the organization is cutting corners that think ryan johnson and henric and daniel sadin while

while the market likes them, aren't being put resource-wise in a position to succeed. And I think if that happens, that creates brand risk, especially in the absence of losses. And brand risk, trust, right? Between any brand and its customer base is a vital resource that needs to be carefully managed. One thing we've always been able to say is we trust that the Canucks will spend. We trust that they'll spend at least on player personnel. I think you're taking a significant risk at this moment in franchise history business-wise if you begin to risk that, especially in a moment when that's going to be how teams separate themselves.

Drancer, great stuff as always, buddy. Thanks for taking the time to do it. Enjoy today and enjoy the Canada match. We'll do this again next week. Yeah, it should be fun. Cheers, boys. See you later, dude. That's Thomas Drans from the Athletic Vancouver and Connect Stock here on the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

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