Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 7/6/26

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

Halford & guest host Greg "Laddie" Balloch look back at a busy weekend in sports including Canada bowing out of the World Cup as well as a wild England win at Mexico, plus the boys get a Canucks update from NHL.com & In Goal Magazine's Kevin Woodley. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You're listening to Halford and Brough. The wide, wide world of sports is going on here? Well, I'm off to destroy Canada. They've had it too good for too long. I believe Freddie Quimby should walk out of here a free hotel. Brennan Bachelor has been in the wave or some sort of weird dance now.

It's coming home. Good morning, Vancouver, 6-1 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. It is Halford. It is Brough. It is SportsNet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studios in beautiful Mount Pleasant in Vancouver. Now I say, Halford and Brough from the morning.

But today, very special day. Greg Ballick, better known as Laddie in the co-host chair. Good morning, Laddie. Hello, hello. This is going to be a weird way to do it. Good morning, A-Dog. Good morning. And regular Zach.

Good morning to you as well. Good morning. Halford and Brub in the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Their clients often say, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off of me. Don't say it. If a jet is weighing you down, visit sands dash trustee.com for more. We are an hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to by North Star Metal Recycling.

Banker's Premier Metal Recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal recycling, they recycle you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We're broadcasting live from the Kintech Studio steps strong with orthotics and footwear from Kintech. And guests on Sportsnet 650 call in on the ABLE Auctions hotline, email sales at ablyleauctions.ca to get your business assets sold and your building cleared. Good job, buddy. Hell is going on. What is happening here? Greg will be with us in the co-host chair for a couple days while Jason is away. We got a big show ahead. We got a big guest list ahead.

It is the Dewick Morning Drive brought to by the Duick Auto Group. It begins at 630 this morning. Adam Jenkins, analyst from one soccer is going to join the program. As you may have inferred from Zach's intro. Canada's run at the World Cup is sadly over. The Canadians fell 3-0-0 to Morocco on Saturday to bow out of the round of 16. We'll talk to Adam about that and everything else from the World Cup at 6.30. 7 o'clock, Felix Sikard is going to join the program. What a name. Felix Sikard. He is from the Crash the Pond podcast, an Anaheim Ducks podcast, Dan McKean's Hockey, crazy weekend in Anaheim for the Ducks, Leo Carlson, Pavell Minchikoff, all sorts of big contract wheelings and dealings.

Felix Saccard is going to join us at 7 to walk through what's going on. 7.30, Zach Worden, Blue Jays writer from Sportsnet, tough, tough weekend for the Jays in Seattle. No rest for the Jays. Of course, they get back into action tonight in San Fran as their West Coast swing continues. Zach Wharton for some Blue Jays talk at 730. Finally at 8 o'clock, Kevin Woodley, NHL.com, and Ingoal magazine, Canucks talk,

goalie talk. We'll go around the biggest stories of the NHL weekend. our goalie guru Kevin Woodley is going to join us at 8. Won't work in reverse on the guest list. We got a lot to get into. So without further ado, Zach, to tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No.

What happened? I missed all the action because I'm... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened is brought to you by our good friends at ATS traffic. Safety is not a shortcut you want to take.

From design to execution, ATS traffic. is your full service traffic safety provider. Visit them online at aTS traffic.ca. We are going to begin with everything that happened in the World Cup over the weekend, but first and foremost, Canada, bowing out in the round of 16 after a 3-0 loss to Morocco on Saturday. It was a valiant effort from the Canadians, especially through the first 45 minutes,

but ultimately their lack of finish and quite frankly a lack of quality. And we'll get to the Alfonso Davies stories as well. It ended Canada's very successful world. Cup in the round of 16 with a 3-0 lost to Morocco. Your thoughts on the match, Lidde. I want you to dive deep into soccer here. Well, you're the soccer expert, so I'm going to defer to you mostly. But I do have a lot of questions, as do a lot of Canadians after what happened.

First and foremost, I think you mentioned the Davies conversation. And we've had a lot of texts coming in the inbox already about that. And do you think Jesse Marsh's hands were tied? I know you have a unique perspective on this, but there's got to be a reason he didn't come in to that final game. All right. Let's unpack this. It's Alfonso Davies. Let's unpack this. We'll start with the decision to not put him in that match, as Addog likes to say, in a vacuum. So let's just focus on the Morocco match.

Davies told the gaffer he wasn't ready to go. Now, after the match, Marsh did say that Davies had a clean MRI during the week, believe it was on Friday, and that there was a hamstring injury that crept up, I believe it was on Thursday that had Fonzie worried about his availability for the match. So that's the backdrop to this. During the match, became pretty apparent that Davies tested it out

in a little bit of a warm-up. He had the Theragun going to try and loosen things up. It wasn't going to happen. It became more and more evident as that match went on. For those that were saying, can't he suck it up and give his country 10 or 15 minutes in the biggest match in Canadian soccer history? From a purely technical and tactical standpoint,

it's bananas throwing a guy on in a substitute troll that's hurt. If he goes in and let's see, he blows out his hamstring in the first four minutes, now you've basically wasted one of your substitutions and you only get the five. And you've wasted essentially two changes. Let's say, for example, the Davies went on for, I don't know, Richie La Rea in that match. And you have to take Davies off.

Well, now you've wasted two substitutions filling one position on the pitch. when you might have been able to leave Richie out there for the full 90. And now your hands are tied in a match where you're chasing goals and chasing results. So from that perspective, totally understand why he wasn't used in that match. And Alfonso Davies, his special power is his speed, is it not? Yes. So an enhancing injury, I feel like would play a big part in affecting his speed, which is his main factor anyway. Sure. Now, people will say, but he appeared against South Africa in the round of 32.

And when he came on, you could tell that the lift that he provided to his teammates, even though he clearly and visibly wasn't at 100% was impactful. I do not argue this point. I think that his presence in the South Africa match gave that team a lift in terms of spirit, fighting ability. I will probably have to ask around even more than I have to eventually get to the bottom of this. But here's what I think. I think that physically and mentally

he wasn't there and pushing him to get into that South and him pushing himself, let's make no mistake about that, to get into that South Africa match was a lot. I think mentally, he's grappling with, and it's not just an injury that he suffered once and needs to get over. It's the recurrence of the hamstring injury.

I also think that his manager grew more and more frustrated with, the situation throughout the tournament. And I think that's why Marsh said in his post-match scrum on Saturday, all that stuff about the clean MRI and it was Fonzi's decision not to play.

I think Marsh, to a certain degree, one and to, one, wash his hands at the situation. And two, have an explainer at the ready for why he didn't come on as a sub against Morocco. Do you think the fact that he came into that game against South, South Africa, he sort of realized that he didn't

have anything in the tank. worth World Cup quality to play in that game against Morocco? I don't think that was necessarily it. I just think the fear of re-injury was that high. I think it was probably just as high as it was in the South Africa match.

You could just tell when he came in that he was at 65, 70%, such a tease, though. It was such a tease. Very labored in the South Africa match and couldn't go at the speeds, like you said, his superpower.

And here's a thing, that this is probably the most bothersome of it all. Alfonso Davies really shouldn't be the biggest story coming from Saturday's match because there's lots of other more intriguing, more compelling, quite frankly, more useful conversations to have. But I noticed it right away in the aftermath

and it really took off on Saturday afternoon and evening following the match. It was the story that everyone glommed on to and rightfully so. It's your best player. It's the biggest match in your country's history. he's not there for it. It's the most easy and obvious conversation to have.

But I think what a lot of people are left with in the aftermath is not a lot of really great answers to their questions. Like right now, I'm sure some people have listened to the first nine minutes of this show and have said, I'm still not getting a full sense of why he couldn't just go out there and play. It is super layered and super multifaceted. For sure. I think there's about eight or ten different things going on,

including the Byron influence in all of this, which I think played a role. I'm not saying Byron came in and specifically said, do not play against Morocco on Saturday. But Byron did just sign a shiny new young left back who could be a Davies replacement. Byron did have one of their staff doctors with Davies throat the duration of Canada's camp at the World Cup.

And he's done this injury and he mentioned it as well. Davies did in his post-match media availability that he's done his hamstring three times in the last 12 months. That every time he thinks he's getting back and he's ready to go, he does it again. I think that mental hurdle ultimately was the one that he just couldn't jump over, possibly because it was hamstring. Well, it's not an injury you can really hide in the game of soccer. I forget the player you mentioned last week, but he said he ran 14 kilometers during the World Cup game.

Andres Kubas. Like, if you have a hamstring injury, you're not coming close to running 14 kilometers. Like, I'm sorry, you can't reasonably expect somebody with a hamstring injury in the game of soccer to just jump in there. Yeah. Like, it's just not, it's not hockey. you can't battle through it. It's just not something you could do and expect to compete against the team like Morocco.

Okay, now let's turn our attention to the other major talking point following Canada's loss to Morocco on Saturday. And those were Jesse Marsh's remarks afterwards that he felt that Canada was a better team and that he would rather have been after a 3-0 loss, still us rather than them. Now, Brough really hated this comment. So if I'm in Brough's chair,

do I have to take his stance and just dig in about how much I hated that Jesse Marsh comment. Did you hate the Jesse Marsh comments? I kind of did. I kind of agree with Proff. I think you don't come out and say, even if you believe that Canada was the better team in that game, you don't come out in the media and say it.

How do they really think that? How did he actually think there's a better team? It's just fodder, right? Okay. So ridiculous. Fair. Okay. I think obviously we're not.

I think our team. First off, Jesse Marsh should not be doing media immediately following a match. There should be some sort of cooling. off period and especially for him, I believe the one great line from a guy that wrote from the telegraph this weekend is that he overdoses on emotions. And he really does.

He would be wise to just take a beat and not talk so passionately like he does to his players. Like the media of the first half. First half was pretty good. What he was trying to do was he was trying to say that he was proud of his guys, but he went about it in a way

that was super hyperbolic. I think we can all agree on that. And kind of dismissive of the opponent. I was going to say insulting to Morocco which didn't give them any credit for what they were able to do in the second half. That being said, first half of that match,

Canada outplayed Morocco. They were the better side. I don't think they were a significantly better side. I don't think they had enough quality chances on target to say that they should have been up more than one, but they should have been up one. And if there's any lesson

that Canadians watching that match should have taken away, sit at the highest levels to be a top 10 ranked team in the world like Morocco is. You need that extra little bit of quality in the few fleeting moments of a 90-minute match where impact needs to be made. Taniola O'Shea in the first half did not capitalize on his chance. Now, a few things went into that. One incredibly good stop from Bonham, Montreal, by the way, who's a very high-end keeper, quality keeper. those differences in a match where you've got a world-class keeper.

He makes a save. You don't have a world-class finisher. He doesn't put it in behind. Match takes on a totally different vibe if Canada goes up one in the first half. And we talked about this last week as it related to the big upset in the round of 32 when Paraguay beat Germany. They were able to score first. They were able to capitalize on a chance.

And it tilted that match on its head. The other one, the near upset in the round of 32, the biggest. one was England Congo, where Congo was able to score early, was able to capitalize on their early chance, and it threw that match into arrears and almost caused the second biggest upset of the round of 32. So from that perspective, Canada didn't follow the script. Canada also didn't follow the script because there were too many mistakes made in the second half. A lot of self-inflicted wounds. Well, not scoring first is the big one that stands out and they only did that in the one game and it's hard to win when you don't score first and you get scored on as Canada likes to

apparently in the World Cup but I saw a lot of comments after the first half in that Morocco game people saying what a great first half as good as you can expect from Canada against Morocco and I just had this pit in my stomach saying they didn't they didn't get one on the board and that is going to come back to haunt them because we know Morocco is going to come out on fire after the break so what happened exactly that Morocco comes out and gets scored scores the first goal so the fact that they didn't get one even though they had decent amount of run of the play in that first half just just crushed them I feel like it's gonna bury their chances like they just couldn't finish it was very similar to the World Cup match against Belgium yeah in Qatar in

2022 where they were raving about how great they played in the first half and they were down one-nil and if you want to look at this tournament now and you talk about the two highest ranked teams that they played and that was Morocco who were in the top 10 and Switzerland who's in the top 20. Canada was outscored 5-1 on aggregate and we're only able to find the back of the net once in the second half of the Swiss match. They went

180 minutes and were only able to find the back of the net once against the quality opponents that they had. They filled it against Qatar as they were expected to. By the way, Qatar match also the only match in which Jonathan David found the back of the net in this tournament. That was a major

problem. They had issues in their attack. Tanyolououiche played a lot this tournament. No goals to show for it. Promise David left on the bench until very late in that match against Morocco was probably their most consistent finisher across all of the matches.

Kyle Laron, very erratic tournament for him in terms of finishing. Scored the huge goal against Bosnia and the opener off the bench, got a handful of starts, didn't really feature all that prominently in others. they don't have that last little bit of quality yet, which is fine because it's an emerging footballing nation still Canada is very much. But when you're talking about it at the highest level in the fine lines

and all those cliches, you do need someone who's going to be able to execute when those moments come along because you can't just keep relying on gusto and vigor and grit to carry the day. It'll get you and win you, the battle of expected goals, which is what I think Marsh was kind of alluding to in the aftermath, but it's not going to actually win you the match.

And it's a big point that Canada, just, even when they were healthy, probably didn't have the quality that you're speaking of. It's a very good point, Greg. I forget the stat that I saw, but I saw that, I think it was just high priced players past a certain threshold. Morocco had 11 of them. Canada had three. And that just tells you that they just don't have the, and the two of those three were

players that were injured for Team Canada. So, okay, you are bringing up a good point here. Like, they definitely didn't have the depth of squad to, the Davies lost for sure. The Kone injury was killer. Although I thought Niko Sigur was terrific in that last match. But that would have to kill your expectations, would it not, if we're, for sure.

Honestly, here. It should, but despite all those injuries in the first half across any metric, I test, expected goals, fancy stats, basic stats, whatever. no one's arguing that Canada wasn't the best team in the first half of that match. So even with Kone, now doffing his crutches and able to hobble around and Marcella Flores still with the torn ACL and Davies out, despite all that, they were still able to put forth the first half where they were the better team and they should have found the back of the net. Now, the problem is that they didn't.

And when you started to go down the line and it came time to bring in quote unquote impact subs to try and chase goals in the second. second half. Now you're looking at, well, can we squeeze 15 minutes at a Jacob Schaffelberg? Are we going to bring Liam Miller in? How many strikers can we throw at them? What else do we have to try and get a spark? And you saw it, they didn't have it. They just simply did not have. Gary, the atheist brings up another point that I wanted to make. So talk about the set pieces. Absolutely terrible. How many corners did they have? I think it ended with 11. 11 corners? I think it was finished with 11. And was a single one of them even remotely dangerous? No, it was very. very poor. It was very poor.

And I did think that there was an opportunity to bring Promise David, who's just an absolute Goliath, a specimen of a man, to bring him in earlier to try and cause more chaos on set pieces. It didn't happen. The set pieces all tournament were

they were lacking. You know, especially in the second half of the Swiss match, I thought, with all the chances that they had from corners and from long throws. I feel like there's been a problem for a while. Has it not? Yeah, nothing really material. realize from them. I know a lot of people were giving you Stacchio grief for his service

and I didn't think it was ideal, but it didn't seem like they had the way the modern game has gone with how much pressure you can get offset pieces, particularly corners, and you see in the Premier League all the time. You see the other teams doing it this World Cup. Yeah. It just didn't feel like they ever

had the right kind of setup, the right service, the right guys crashing at the right times to try and make life difficult. It was very disappointing. and Morocco seemed more than content to concede those corners because it felt like they were never going to have a hard time defending it

and that was a problem as well. Okay, we'll put a bow on the Canada talk. There's a couple other massive stories from the World Cup right now. The one that is taken the world by storm and we're still getting updates on this right now is U.S. President Donald Trump's role in FIFA's stunning decision

to allow U.S. striker Filar and Balagan to be eligible to play tonight against Belgium in their round of 16 match. Now, Baligan, in case you missed it, was red carded in their round of 32 win over Bosnia. With that red card comes an automatic minimum one match suspension. Only yesterday, FIFA announced that the suspension had been suspended through Article 27 of the FIFA bylaws and guidelines for this tournament. there is a, I would call it an obscure ruling, which they have used in the past to be fair, which allows the disciplinary committee

not to overturn a red card, but to suspend the suspension. I think that's the important thing here. Nobody is saying that we have rescinded the red. What they're saying is they're going to kick the can down the road on the automatic suspension. It may be served at a later day. We don't know, but it won't hold Balligan out of tonight's match.

Now, as you can imagine, there's a lot of bad. story to this. Belgians are upset. Uaifa's upset. Former FIFA president SEPBladder took to Twitter this morning to express his dismay in the decision. There are multiple reports from various outlets in the U.S. With sources who claim that Donald Trump did make a call to Johnny and Fantino. Now, the nature of those calls, it seems very ambiguous at this point. There are some reports that on the advisement of his lawyers, he made the call to inquire more about what could be done and how the ruling works.

There are others that, of course, are suggesting that it played an influential role in Infantino then making the call to the disciplinary committee to get the red card overturned. I do not think that this saga is done by a long shot. FIFA gave Belgium until 5 and this morning the opportunity to wait for it, appeal the suspension of the suspension. We all got that in listener land. Belgium gets an opportunity to appeal the suspension of the suspension. So if it's successful, they'll suspend the suspension of the suspension?

Yes, that's right. That's correct. Very well done. I don't know what happens to that suspension then. Then that gets suspended. Or it just gets deferred. I don't know. There are reports from the athletic, Adam Crafton, who we've had on this show before, by the way, has been all over the story for the athletic.

He has reported that according to his sources, that Belgium has filed that appeal. again, this is all happening right now. Belgium had until 5 a.m. this morning to file their appeal. This is, of course, 12 hours before, you know, the match gets played tonight. Belgium, U.S., round of 16, 5 o'clock tonight from Seattle. Again, now, if you're, if you've got questions about this

or you would like us to dive into it more, text in Dunbar Lumber text message in basket is 650, 650. Man, I just hope the U.S. gets absolutely smoked. That would be awesome. So that's, you bring up a really interesting wrinkled all this, is that the match still needs to be played. Now, Balagan has been the U.S. best player in this tournament by far.

Shocking that they would overturn his suspension like that. It's crazy, right? Didn't see it coming. He is vitally important to what they do, but this is still a Belgian squad with a lot of quality and will still give the U.S. a test whether Balogun was in the lineup or not. The fact that he's there,

if U.S. is to go on win this. There's going to be a massive asterisk beside it and I don't know how the rest of the term plays out with that hanging in the backdrop. If they don't win, it is going to be one of the more intriguing subplots moving forward because now they've opened up a can of worms.

For example, there was a red card in the match yesterday for Gerald Quanson in England in a match we haven't even talked about yet, but was fantastic at Azteca. Every red card now comes under scrutiny and has opened up this Pandora's box about whether or not you're able to rescind. Because here's the crux of this whole thing. They've never said,

and FIFA doesn't have to open up the black box as to why, the reasoning behind overturning this particular red in a tournament that I believe has had 13 red cards now. They're not used to having reasons for the decision. Or giving reasons for their decision. Because they're not overturning the actual decision. They're just suspending the suspension. And part of this is, yes, absolutely.

They're making it up as it goes along. I mean, there are some people that are saying, this appeals process that the Belgians have been granted is just kind of been drawn up out of thinner. They're like, yeah, sure, here's an appeals process. We made it up overnight. Yeah, sure. But it is it is one of those things where you kind of

knew at some point, a tournament hosted in the U.S. was going to have political overtones beyond we got this because of who we are. And flexing your muscle politically in the footballing realm is a timeless thing. right there are countless countries that have done this before corruption has been widespread it

was long before in the world cup right fifa is no stranger to corruption no stranger to political influence so to suggest that this is the first time this has ever happened it's kind of laughable people will point to christiano rinaldo being available for the start of this tournament when he should have had a three match ban for what he did in qualifying yet somehow that also got article 27 away. Right? This falls at the feet of Johnny and Fantino and FIFA. And if I know

anything about FIFA, it's that in the face of controversy, like me trying to get through a read, they'll just power through. That's right. Just go right through it. Just power right through it. Speaking of reeds, I need to tell you about Jan Pro. Not satisfied with your current cleaning service. JanPro delivers consistent results and

responsive customer service. Start clean, stay clean. Visit them online at janpro. That was tremendous segue. witnessing that segue in person. They pay me the medium-sized bucks,

laddie, let me tell you. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.

I'll tell you this, Kyle, here's another one I've wanted a boat. And that is Patterson. Elias Pedersen from the Canucks. And remember,

he has control, but I, you know, look, all of a sudden, Look, he's got to play better in that 11.6 is everyone's been talking about that. I know. But again, the ground has shifted here in a huge way.

I've sat there and I said, where could he go that could be good for him? I don't know. I wonder if the penguins with Crosby and Malkin might be good for him. 801 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford, Brough, Sportsnet, 650, but it's not Bruff in the chair, it's a shock, dare I say shocked, Greg Ballack. Laddie, we played that audio earlier in the show, so it's mostly theatrical. Yeah, there it is, but. It's Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and InGol magazine here on the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Woods?

You want to talk about shocked. Me and Greg, Greg Ballack hosting? Uh-huh. Like, like, I feel like this is an episode of, this is like independent George and relationship George cannot be in the same place at the same time. This is, this is world colliding. World colliding. You know, when I saw Woodley's name on the rundown, I thought, it's great we're having Kevin on.

He's surely not going to embarrass me whatsoever during his hit at any point. Right, Kevin? It's adorable watching you to interact. Also, Greg. It's about time, Greg, that's all I got to say. There we go. Greg got to do Blue Jace talk and now goalie talks. Amazing.

The cipher is complete. Before we get to any of that, though, that audio that we played right up the top, that's from the latest 32 thoughts from Elliott Friedman. And I said, look, I don't think the biggest takeaway is necessarily the landing spot for Elias Pedersen, although he did say that Pittsburgh might be one. I think, you know, Frege is zeroing in on something here that he's been working on through the Leo Carlson offer sheet and through writing on SportsNet, and through the podcast, it's that there are big things happening in the NHL right now.

It feels like the landscape has significantly changed. Teams are not shy from making the big move. Teams are not shy from pulling the trigger. They're not shy from making offer sheets, obviously, and that this may be the right landscape and the right time and the right environment to finally make a move on Elias Pederson. Your thoughts on that, Kev. Well, I mean, Leo Carlson at 18 million.

Like, you're right. everything has shifted. Everything has changed this summer and somewhat dramatically. So would it be as shocking as it would have been a year ago to find a landing spot, especially after another year where he underperforms the contract? No. Does Pittsburgh make sense for a lot of the reasons? Yes. Because Crosby and Malkin won't be there forever. Would you like to have him there seeing how things are done before having him potentially, obviously not really. place, but move into some of those spots they're about to vacate. Like, I can see how they're, the market, as everything else shifts, so will the market on Elias Pedersen. Not to the point where he's a positive asset without retention. And that's a big part of this. But if they're looking to move from him, just move from him, then that increasingly becomes

possible as the cap goes up. And the contract looks less and less onerous. where it goes from here, we'll see. But it seems pretty clear from all the reporting. None of me, just reading the actual people who are insiders, that efforts have been made and that that's the intention on this end. And as that market shifts, the possibilities on the other end seem to increase or at least, at least become plausible without retention.

Yeah, I also got to wonder if... Not likely, but plausible. Well, retention or no, I've almost moved past that into the sort of, the motivational part of it from the organization standpoint. Like the cuts are happening. The rebuild is well underway. The tearing back to the studs is underway.

Is this sort of an inevitable? Does this move have to happen? Because that was the other sense I got from listening to Free Speak as well is that if they're truly going to move forward, this is the one move that needs to happen. Almost from a, I don't know, like a philosophical standpoint.

Like can you truly move forward and embrace new culture and a new room and a new identity with that big a piece of your past hanging around. Oh, that's a fair question. And he's certainly not the only one. Like, it's funny because I... He's definitely not the only one.

That's a good point. And this is the thing, like, every time you talk about culture and locker room and stuff, like the internet immediately jumps to, and guys still being around that were part of not necessarily great things. Everybody jumps to Pedersen, and it's, there is more than that there. But that's a really good question.

I don't know. Obviously they're trying to, and that would tell you that they feel maybe not urgency. And retention is important because of the cash value, because of everything right now is cashing cash out. That's what it appears to be. So that becomes an important part of this calculation. And I guess if you're moving off on the salary, then not taking anything back.

I mean, I don't know. At the end of the day, they seem motivated to do it. Motivated and must do are two different things. There's a lot of summer left. There's a lot of guys that haven't signed yet. I'm as curious as everyone else, but I don't have any answers about the likelihood of it happening this summer. But I agree with you on the premise of a clean slate.

And this organization sort of truly rebooting and starting it up again, I'm just not sure we're there yet. in terms of how dramatically this market is shifted for it to become, again, go from plausible. It's become plausible, but likely I'm still not sure I'd be holding my breath waiting for it. Kevin, you talk about tearing it down to the studs. And a lot of what you just said about Patterson and the reasons they need to possibly move past him, I feel like that can apply to Demko as well. Like what is his thought process going forward now as a member of the Canucks currently?

what is he even planning going into this season coming up seeing the type of roster that he's going to be playing behind he can't be happy and what's his next move? I never thought of it like honestly I think his focus

is just entirely on getting healthy I never thought of it in terms and you know like how deeply you believe it depends on who you talk to but at the end of the day he's always said nothing but the right things

in wanting to see this through but you're right like this is going to be a difficult task. That said, like this lineup, as bleak as it looks, will probably defend better than the one that came into last season with playoff aspirations and a total lack of cohesion from a system standpoint. Right. Right.

Like from a goaltending standpoint, you look at it two ways. Like, oh, yes, the future is not bright. We're not going to make the playoffs. I'm not winning a cup here. That's one hand. The other hand is like from an environment standpoint, it might actually get back. I actually am quite willing to bet that when we have this conversation a month and a half into the season, despite a roster that is clearly not as good on

paper, that the metrics defensively are better than what they were at that point last season. Right. So from a team being organized in front of you and we talk a lot about goaltending not existing in a vacuum, you know, I think you'll actually see improvement there, even if the names on the roster sheet don't look as good, just with the coaching change. So that's the other side of it. I think his focus, and let's be clear, I haven't talked to him.

I haven't talked to him in quite some time, but I think his focus is just on getting healthy. And, you know, the fact that he's back on the ice, I mean, inevitably in this market, when a goal he's back on the ice, you know, doing stuff privately because there's no ice at Rogers Arena, I hear about it. And, you know, he's, you know,

two weeks ago, I won't say where, but, you know, like, he wasn't just on the ice. He was, he's already butterflying. Like, he's doing butterfly drops. He's doing skate movement that includes down movement. And as you know, Greg, that's a major step. It's one thing to be on the ice and skating upright and just he pushes and shuffles. It's another thing when you start dropping to your knees and moving around from your knees. So, you know, which is why I asked Ryan Johnson whether, you know, and he was non-committal to it.

But it sounds like he'll be ready close to, if not. for the start of training camp. And as much as I fully understand the consternation around, again, more surgeries. And as much as he's the only goalie, I haven't been able to find any other examples of goalies having their hips done twice. As you know, Greg, like goalies getting their hips done, that's common. Yeah, it's not the end of the world.

Right, most of them come out on the other side and a lot of other things feel better. You know, like, I mean, I, there's, there are literally past examples of goalies going through seasons with, you know, repeated groin injuries and knee pain and stuff like that. I've actually, there's a couple of examples where I've been on record, like, has anybody checked his hips? And like six months later, he's having hip surgery, right? Like, so there's so many of the things in the chain tie into the hips. And, and he talked about a zero internal rotation, you know, clearly there, there was damage there. and anytime, but when you watched him, that butterfly was still like wide enough to make most goalies jealous, right?

So he may not have, he was forcing that rotation if it wasn't happening naturally. And so that's going to affect other areas. So the fact they fixed that, you know, again, there are questions around the fact that he's done his hips twice now. Again, not a lot of examples.

But if this was the first time, I'd be buying into the, hey, we think we fixed everything. Right? Like if it wasn't first. the track record of so many injuries. I think a lot of people would be like, hey, like, this is this quite often a goalie has this done, and everything else gets better.

So I think there's still a hope on their end, on his end, that that's where they're at. The fact he's doing what he's doing on the ice already bodes well. And beyond that, I mean, I can't speak to what his mindset is about this team being, you know, frankly,

in a rebuild again, even if it's the first time intentional, because it, you know, it's not the first time it felt like that from the player's perspective. I would think that 100% on the focus, he's here in Vancouver. Like, he stayed in Vancouver this summer to do the rehab and do the work and do it under their eye. And that's a pretty significant commitment on its own because he's not a guy that typically stay.

I mean, very few of them do. But, like, that's a major disruption to his off-season routine. And it's all designed towards making sure he's ready to go at the start of the season. So where this goes, I don't know. But whether he wants to stay or wants to go, the only way option B becomes a viable alternative. We talk about the market shifting on Pedersen and changing that possibility is for him to play games

and show the league that he's healthy, right? Because I guarantee you, in a world where the USA market had two goalies that had positive goals saved above expected, Daniel Terrace off barely, and the other one, Connor Ingram, unsigned. if he shows he can stay healthy for even three quarters of a season with a moderate workload, there will be interest.

I think Rick Dollywell has already reported there are teams that poked around this summer. So there will be interest if he plays games. And if, this is not me putting words in his month, but if that's something he won. Yeah, I think that's why tantalized by the Demko story, because if he gets healthy and he starts contributing, the return could actually be quite good, you'd think, for a guy like Demko, you know, with the, a little amount of goaltending talent available,

but like you said, it really hinges on him getting healthy and just proving to other GMs that he can play in NHL games. Well, I wouldn't get too excited about the return because I think one of the reasons there hasn't been a Connor Hellabuck trade yet is because the Jets haven't liked the return.

And so let's wait, let's wait and see what the three-time Vezna winner with a sterling reputation for staying healthy. Let's see what he fetches before we start talking about return on a guy who has yet to make it through an entire season as a number one healthy, but I'm with you in terms of what he's capable of.

Absolutely. When he's right, and it's been a few years now, but when he's right, there are very few that do what he does. And listen, I know there's a lot of, like, do you guys, can you guys tell me which team had the best goaltending last season in the entire NHL? I should know this. I don't, Greg was behind, he'd have the Jeopardy music going by now.

He's on the other end. He's so sharp. It's the Calgary playing. after a slow start after a slow start from decimal hey listen in a bad environment if you outperform it you're going to rock it up the goal team Coolly was very good too

right Coley was the best goalie on a rate stat in the entire NHL last year and Wolfe after a tough first month finished top 10 so where does elite goaltending on a bad team get you it gets you the sixth draft pick

instead of a guaranteed spot in the top three so at some point you have to ask that question too if you're the Vancouver Canucks like where are we in this review build. When we come out of it, what age will these guys be? Will they still be able to contribute? But for now, the focus should just be on making sure Demko gets and stays healthy and all that work is being done and managing the minutes properly, maybe rolling with three goalies to make sure you've got some insurance because they don't have a lot. They don't have any veterans signed for the American

Hockey League. And I will say this. Like as much as people worry about can a goalie, wreck or two goalies, two good golies, let's not forget because I think Kevin Lichen and we'll get closer to what we saw to Kevin Lanken and again this year, like what he's capable of. Two good goalies, can they wreck a rebuild? No, but they can prop you up longer than you probably should

actually be as a team. But it does matter. I buy into the idea that young defenders need to be able to play with a certain level of freedom out there. where they're not worried that every mistake ends up in the back of their net, where they can get bailed out, where they can go out and build some confidence

and not worry that every turnover results in a face-off at center ice after the next whistle. So, like, I think that matters. Like, goaltending provides leadership. It provides a backbone of a team. Obviously, I'm biased on the importance of the position, but sending all these young players in this rebuild into a season without the type of goal-tending they might get out of these two,

there's problems in that as well. Now, from a team that has not a lot of expectations in terms of playoffs and doing any damage to a team that has a lot of expectations, a Canadian team, the Edmonton Oilers, I know you're a big Frederick Anderson guy. They sign him to a pretty team-friendly deal, one year, $1 million. They also bring in Devin Levi.

What's your take on the due tandem in Edmonton? Well, I mean, I don't think they're the tandem. There's Tris and Jari's going to get a part of it. I guess you throw his name into the mix. I think you're going to see more teams. Like, I think we're finally at that point where after years of the knee-jerk reaction to three goalies being three doesn't fit into two, you can't manage it.

And even Yarmulkeke-Kleana takes over in Buffalo, and one of the first things he says is we're going to end the three-goly experiment. And by the end of the year, Lindy Ruff's telling media that, no, it worked. We made it work, and we'll probably do it again. Like, I think you're going to see more teams if they have the cap spaces, as the cap grows, especially if they have a guy like, you know, Levi requires waivers, total appeal requires waivers.

And this is the danger of being a team that's recounting. Like, this is one of the things, like, you used to be able to sort of count on certain guys hitting the waiver wire and your ability to sort of stock up your depth by claiming them. But as more teams consider this and have the room to do so, and I think Edmondson will probably be one, you know, it's twofold. It's these guys don't hit waivers. So you sort of can't count on it. And there's some good names that are going to hit waivers.

We saw Toronto make a move just to make sure Hildaby didn't because they knew they wouldn't keep him. You look at Levi Merlinan, like Ottawa had me scratching my head a little bit with the Erison move, certainly with the Arison contract. And now if they don't keep Marilinen and they put him on waivers, like I'd make a strong, as bad as last year was, the year before we, was really good. And there are a lot of guys who this time last summer,

and when I say guys, I mean goalie directors and goalie coaches and goalie scouts who had him ranked in the top 10 on the prospect list, I would think somebody takes a flyer on him. So in Edmonton, I think they hold three. Honestly, it's really hard to answer who's going to have success there because I have no idea how they're going to play. And hopefully they do.

Like hopefully they baked in. We're way past. that, and this is part of the Connor Hellebuck discussion too. Hopefully, and for most teams I think we are, but certainly not all, and I have examples, we're way past the days of he's a good goalie, he'll be a good goalie here. Hopefully you have an idea how you're going to play, how you're going to defend in Edmondson. Every team gives up chances, but you get to choose sort of which ones you're willing to live with. And hopefully that fits the guys they have.

I do know who I feel sorry for, and that's Peter Aubrey, the goaltending coach. Because if they do keep three, you could not have three more different styles. And so working with each one to sort of figure out what makes them feel good and what their strengths are and then sort of managing that throughout a season, like that's going to be a task. It's one I know he's up to, but it's not going to be as it's really not going to be as easy as most people from the outside would just assume. Freddie Anderson had an 868 expected say percentage in Carolina last year. So everyone's like, oh, he's going to a bad defensive team from a good defensive team. Well, listen, Carolina was good defensively in terms of quantity. they didn't give up quantity.

They gave up quality. 868 was the lowest expected say percentage, the toughest by shot quality environment for any goalie in the entire NHL last season. So he can handle that. What I worry about is if Edmonton spends a lot of time sort of collapsing in their own zone, like Carolina was so aggressive,

they give up these rush plays and rush chances, but they didn't get hemmed in their own zone much at all. And if Edmonton does, if they decide to play more passive, sort of collapse to the front of the net style, and the puck's being zipped around on the perimeter, that's a lot of wear and care on a big body that has already struggled to make it through seasons healthy. The need, it kept him out in the final, kept him out here during the regular season, just based on a bus ride when their charter broke down from Seattle to Vancouver.

So the injury risk is real there, but obviously I like the goaltender when he's healthy. I think everybody saw what he's capable in the cup final. Devin Levi, exceptional talent, needs to back it up. Take notes. Go watch Dustin Wolf. And this would be my advice for Peter Aubrey, too. Six-foot goaltender, everybody talks about, including Levi, these guys can succeed. They can't succeed by being aggressive. The stereotypes of small goalies needing to play further out are dead.

If you don't play a contained game, you can't survive in today's NHL. Like, I truly believe that. And what I saw of Levi in the American League, there was just still too much aggression to succeed in the NHL. So that's one of the big adjustments they have to make there. frantic at times is how I would describe it but moving up to pull it off the speed to pull it off though he does we've seen it at the world juniors so hopefully he can put it together maybe not against the canucks but uh i'd like to see him succeed at some point uh one final one from me woody uh the surgy bovowski

signing in toronto three year deal for the 37 year old uh can he get it done and is that tandem that he's got with stolars working is that going to be a positive thing for the leaps moving forward. I like how they built their depth chart, right? Like clearly I thought Hildeby, when they made the move to move out wool, that Hildaby will be stepping up. Akiyamoff

outplays, gets the net ahead of Hildaby in the American Hockey League championship run. So like it's your perfect storm. Kind of a new jerk though, is it not to give Hilda B the boot as soon as one other prospect kind of leapfrog him there? Well, I mean,

yeah, I would have probably had him in as backup. His adjusted say percentage was top 15 in the league this past season. But I just, you know, we just talked about Levi-Marinen. Like, they would know Curtis Sanford as good as he is,

Henny Toevin in the American Hockey League as good as he is, and he's going to get an NHL job soon with the work he keeps doing in the American League. They probably have, like statistically, he'll be absolutely, it would have kept him. But we said the same thing about Maryland and then when the pressure,

when he had to be the guy, rather than just the guy coming in to replace the guy, it just folded in Ottawa. Maybe they see something where they don't think there's a bigger role. Maybe they just seem more upside in Actaamov. And they're clearly in a win-now mode with what's going on with Austin Matthews and they get McKenna. So I understand it.

You're right. I would have kept the two younger guys and one older guy as opposed to two older guys, one of whom's injury prone. And Stollers may not be 37. like Bob, but he's, you know, he's been around a while. At the same time, those two's a tandem were great. I put out a tweet after the Bob signing, made $70 million in Florida. In six of the seven years, his adjusted save percentage was below league average.

In other words, he was a below league average goal thing. He underperformed his defensive environment. A lot of the years, you could hardly see it because the defensive environment was so good. but he got outplayed by Anthony Stollers, his backup when he was in Florida that year, which led to Stollers more opportunity. He got outplayed by other backups. Regular season Bob

hovers right around or just below league average. And I'm not, I wonder if the Leafs can survive that to get to the playoffs, where Playoff Bob is one of the best in the league. And even regular season Bob, as much as, as much as the overall members aren't as flattering, he still has this ability to make these game

and momentum-changing, page like we saw in the playoffs. But at the end of the day, the overall numbers aren't nearly as flattering as a contract. He's still a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's still a guy whose work ethic is going to absolutely rub off on Acta.

The impact for him on Actauma may be worth $21 million, himself, if you believe in the talent of the kid, and what having an example like him around, heck, Patrick Demko, we talk about his hips and everything he's been through. Let's not forget that Bob through his years in Columbus was also injured a lot.

and he started to evolve his game, ironically, under Ian Clark. So if it was urgent situations and he had to get back to the post, you did it how he've always done it. But where there was less urgency and it was just a standard recovery, watch Bob go back to his post. He doesn't slide in on his knees anymore. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.