Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 7/8/25

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they talk to The Athletic NHL's Sean McIndoe about the end of the Mitch Marner saga in Toronto, plus they preview Sunday's BC Lions matchup at Edmonton, as starting quarterback Nathan Rourke joins the show. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best to talk about Procter. He is just my favorite thing. He's a former Little League coach. Nathan Lucas hovers his last time up. And he gets a butt down. And the run will score. We the North, let's hang there together. And as a city, as a nation, as a team, we became champions.

Good morning Vancouver! 6 o'clock on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday everybody. It is Halford and his brough at his Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studios in beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. Basketball fan, good morning to you as well. Good morning. Halford, good morning to you. Good morning. Basketball Ben, good morning to you as well. Good morning. Haliford and Brougham in the morning is brought to you by Sands & Associates,

BC's first and trusted choice for net health with over 3,000 five-star reviews. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. Got a big show ahead on a Tuesday. Sounded like we had a dearth of clips in the intro this morning there, basketball band.

Was it tough? I had a lot to work with. It was, what happened? Is that you, Jerry got slid in there? Summer time. We do have a big show ahead though. We got a lot to get into on the program. Guest list today begins at 6.30 McIndoo better known as down goes Brown

Is gonna join us senior NHL writer from the athletic? I did not realize this when we booked them But this morning Sean published something that really relates to us. It's about being old and feeling old and feeling nostalgic It's a new article. Let's get old. Yeah. Five NHL off season things he misses from days of yore. For example, things like not caring about salaries and the salary cap.

When it used to be okay to sign old players because we weren't all hung up on age and being old. It was called veteran savvy back in the day. Yeah. Well, the guy doesn't hit his prime until about 37. Those were good days. That's when all the smoking finally paid off and they're like,

you're going to hit your peak now at 37. We're going to talk to Sean about that. It's six 30 here on the program. A fair bit of hockey talk on the program today, seven o'clock. Greg Wyshinski, our insider from ESPN is going to join the program. He has a bunch of stuff up on free Agency, the four biggest lessons from Free Agency thus far. We'll talk to him about that.

We can also talk to Greg about the biggest news from the hockey world yesterday and we will get into this and what happened. Gavin McKenna reportedly on his way to the collegiate level, NCA is going to be playing for Penn State next year, not made official, but it sounds like that's what's happening. So we'll talk to Greg about that at seven o'clock, seven 30. We're going to move over to Alberta Sportsnet Flames reporter, Eric Francis is going to join the program. We'll talk to him about the youth movement of foot in Calgary. I think we should actually discuss both Alberta teams this AM because there was a bit of news yesterday

about Zach Hyman and the Oilers and then Eric and Mark Spector did a similar thing looking at the depth charts of their respective teams. I don't know if it looks very good for Edmonton going into this year so we can talk about the two Alberta teams throughout the show today as we kind of break down cup contenders throughout the NHL, what the Pacific division is going to look like as it relates to the Vancouver Canucks. Eight o'clock this morning, Nathan Rourke is going to join the program, starting quarterback for your BC Lions.

Leos are coming off a big 21 to 20 win in Montreal last weekend. No rest for the weary. They're back on the road this weekend. They had to Edmonton to take on the Elks for the second time this season. So we'll talk to Nathan about all that coming up at eight. Also in the eight o'clock hour, eight 30 this morning, we are going to announce the winner of this year's sports net six 50 Jays care 50 50 for challenger baseball supported by Tile town. The draw was last night. The winner is going to be announced this morning.

We're going to reveal that in the eight 30 hour of the show, just before we get into what we learned. And that's actually a friendly reminder to everybody. Start sending in what we learned now. The Dunbar number text line is 650650. Tell us what you learned over the last 24 hours in sports, hashtag it WWL and then to kick off that segment at 830. We will announce the winner of this year's Sportsnet 650J's

Care 5050 for Challenger Baseball. Working in reverse on the guest list, 8 o'clock it's Nathan Rourke, 730 it's Eric Francis, 7 o'clock Greg Wyshinski, 630 Sean Mackindoe. That's what's happening on the program today. Basketball Ben, let's tell everybody what happened. Did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how messy your life can be. What happened? You missed that?

What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. You heard it in the intro. We do need to start with the red hot Toronto Blue Jays. Joey Loperfito, one of my favorite names in the bigs. Homer drove in three runs. The Jays rip off their ninth consecutive victory with an 84 win on Monday night

against the White Sox. Couple things of note happened. One basketball Ben's jinx did not come to fruition. The Jays did manage to keep the good times going against one of the worst teams in the American League and up seven one, as we also heard in the intro. In the sixth inning, the Jays decided, you know what? We love bunting as much as Mike Halford loves bunting. And they got across the run to make it eight one in the sixth. I don't want to say they broke the unspoken rules of baseball by bunting across a run to give themselves a seven run lead

But it was a good night for the Jays as they ripped off their ninth consecutive win We're gonna have to get on this bandwagon here for not already Jason I was watching yesterday, and I thought of you when they when they bunto that run home Would have loved that they broke about four unwritten rules in one single play. Don't do that. Don't do that. But they did it. It was great.

They are now three and a half games up on the Yankees and four on the Tampa Bay Rays. I bet Jay's fans are, I'm certainly feeling like if they really want to have a chance at the division, make hay right now. Get as big a lead as you possibly can because they're probably going to lose a few games. No, they're just going to win for the rest of time. In the next 80 that they've got to play or whatever, 70 that they've got to play, and the Yankees are probably going to turn it around a little bit. But yeah, it's fun to watch and it's certainly as all the hockey news dies down and let's be honest, this summer we don't have a big event. We don't have an Olympics, we don't have a World Cup.

We already squeezed as much as we could out of the Gold Cup. Yeah, I mean honestly. And with hockey news kind of coming to a crawl now, it's good to have at least a compelling story and early in the season the Jays weren't looking very compelling. They were just looking like a middling team that you'd be like, well, if you like baseball, you can watch the Jays. Do you like baseball, you can watch the Jays. You know, like baseball, but if, but if you want to watch winning baseball, you know, it's hit or miss sometimes with the Jays, but yeah,

they're looking good and it's exciting with, uh, with the all-star game coming up and, uh, and the trade deadline coming up. Um, we'll see if they make any moves. We'll see if, uh, management or ownership is emboldened by this team to go out and do something big. And even if they don't, I think you're going to have the excitement of at least holding on or letting go of that first place in the division. So the big talking point right now is that the Jays have ripped off 27 wins in their last 37

games and this has vaulted them from being a sub 500 team to as Jason mentioned tops in the AL East with as Ben pointed out yesterday an opportunity to pad that lead a little bit given the last two series prior to the break. They should be able to collect some more wins. It's the most wins in franchise history before the all-star break at 53 and 38 longest win streak for the team in a decade. So you got to go all the way back. I find that incredible. But that's the most wins they've got. I mean, it's franchise history when you go. It's a 37 game run where they've only lost 10.

Like this isn't just this 11 game win streak, which, by the way, as I mentioned, the longest since August of 2015, like this in the historical context of the club, this is some of the best baseball that this team has ever played now with a plus 16 run different. And that's OK. I'm glad you brought that. OK, Michael. OK. OK, Mike. Right. So everyone knows the Michael K and Jamie Campbell stuff

that happened over the last weekend when the Blue Jays surpassed the Yankees in the standings. And there was a bit of a verbal joust back and forth. And the run differential thing came up. Right. And there's a sustainability factor where a lot of people say, hey, how real is your record? Well, you're winning a lot of close ball games and over the course of 162 game, regular season, that's going to even itself out.

Is it a lot of those one run games are eventually going to go the either way? That's just the nature of the sport, which is why when we were talking to Shulman yesterday, I was really trying to emphasize like this is a team, though, that I think understands it's probably going to be in a lot of those games. Can I just say how predictable this is ever since analytics came into sports, like whether it's hockey or baseball, like we have the same arguments over...

The Mariners did this a few years ago, didn't they? They got off to a great start with the run differential, wasn't that? I can't even remember the exact details. And so the doubters outside the market will say it's unsustainable. And then the people that support the team or want the team to succeed will come up with all the reasons why for this team it's different it's different like this well there with the Jays though it is different they're they're they're built to win one run games that's that's

just how they operate they're special they're're special. They're not like all those other teams that fooled their fans with the low-run deferential. This team is different. It's just funny to watch how it plays out. And it's so predictable because it happens in hockey too. We've seen the teams that either go on a PDO bender or win a lot of close games or whatever, their goal differential is different. People in the market, they'll be like, no, no, no, no, no, let me explain. You obviously haven't been watching this team.

This is what this team does. A little different. Can you buy your way to a World Series? Yes, dancers, yes. Well, exactly, right? All those other teams with the problematic run differential weren't bunters run differential weren't bunters. They weren't bunters. Small ball. These guys manufacture. I love that saying. Yeah. You know,

there's a selflessness about this team that other MLB teams don't have. And it is why I brought it up with Shulman yesterday though, because you do, if you're going to play that style ball and they make no mistake, they do play a style of baseball where it's like in these very clutch moments. I think that's why they're perhaps practicing their squeeze bunt when they're up seven one on the lowly white socks in the sixth inning is that I think they realize that they're not built to go up and, you know, have everyone at the plate mash.

There are there are going to be times where you have to manufacture runs and it is a you know it's kind of a cliche but it's funny as well especially in the postseason right and you know what with this Jay's team in particular if you go back to post seasons failings in recent years past one of the things that undid them on a number of occasions was sloppy base running and the inability to get guys over from second to have them cross home. So I do wonder if there was a philosophical shift there along the way of, hey, if we really

make this a priority and stop wasting these opportunities, we can win more ball games. Okay. Let's talk about Gavin McKenna. Sure. He's expected to join Penn State and he was largely expected to leave the CHL and go down to the NCAA. This isn't something that broke yesterday. They're like, oh my God, he's going to college? What? There was talk that he was talking to Penn State

or Michigan State. He ends up in Penn State, which in terms of elite hockey programs down in the States is relatively new. Sabres owner, Terry Pagula, I think funded a lot of the Penn State in the States is relatively new. Sabres owner, Terry Pagula I think funded a lot of the Penn State program. They only entered Div 1 hockey in 2012. So they've only had a Div 1 hockey program for just over a decade. So I saw a clip online, I think it was through spitting chiclets or something, of the Penn

State facilities, their hockey facilities. Even the Canucks were like, well, that'd be nice. You know, like it is really, really incredible what some of these programs have. And, you know, we're, we've seen the programs that, uh, the football teams have, or the basketball teams have, or in the case of, uh, you know, basketball, Ben, who's more of a golfer

Ben, I'm sure you've seen the facilities at Arizona state golf team. I mean, it's incredible, right? Like it looks like, it looks like a fantasy camp basically for, for golfers. The hockey stuff at Penn State really doesn't look any different than an NHL team would have. They have really nice dressing rooms,

great gym, medical facilities, training facilities, it's all there. And I think this is what is concerning or should be concerning to fans of the CHL because I don't think the CHL can keep up with this. Like these are, these are like $50 million facilities. Then he gets to go to like the whiteout. He has to be on campus for a bit.

Yeah. The experience of, uh, of, of going to, to college isn't going to be for everyone, but man, the ability to go down there and make some extra money too, like Gavin McKenna is going to make a lot of money in his professional career, but it's nice to get started early and he'll be able to go down there and there's certain rules that will apply to Canadians that you can get around, but he'll probably make,

uh, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars in, uh, name, image and likeness. And like, if you're a player like him, like think of how much Connor Bedard was worth to the WHL. Yeah. When, when he was, you know, playing out his final season in Regina, you know, he would go around and it would set, he would playing out his final season in Regina, he would go around and he would sell out games.

Gavin McKenna could have done that next season, but now he's gonna go down to the NCAA and play for Penn State. So to give everyone that's listening right now an idea of why this story is so significant and important, it's because of McKenna. He's not the first star player from the CHL to defect to NCAA hockey.

As a matter of fact, like his medicine hat teammate, Kaden Lindstrom, a top Columbus Blue Jackets prospect, he just recently confirmed his commitment to leave medicine hat and to go to Michigan State. McKenna is different because this is, if you want to talk about generational talents, and I know we throw that term around a lot, but he's the third youngest player to win

Canadian Hockey League Player of the Year. The only guys that were younger to do it, Sidney Crosby and John Tavares, who won it at 16, McKenna won it at 17. McKenna's year, if you didn't follow it at Medicine Hat last year, was off the charts. He had 129 points in 56 games. So this is unquestionably unquestionably the most high profile superstar in junior hockey, leaving the Canadian hockey league and going down to NCA hockey. Now the other part of this and Jason Jason touched on it earlier, is he's not going to a traditional powerhouse.

He's not going to one of these teams that's a perennial final or frozen four contestant. He's going to one of the up and coming programs. So on two fronts, you've got a guy leaving Canadian hockey and leaving it not for Michigan or any of the big historical programs. He's going somewhere new in his to a certain degree. And that's where a lot of people have raised eyebrows and saying, you know, what is this going to mean for the landscape moving forward? There's a lot of Canadian hockey team CHL teams right now that I think are genuinely concerned about what their future is going to look like, not that they're going to have a lack of players because with player movement comes player movement.

There's gonna be guys that are gonna go to the Canadian Hockey League still. It just feels like the path is going to be spend one year in, I don't know, Regina. Then I try my opportunities at a big NCAA school and I get the best of both worlds. For the player, I don't think anyone can argue that this is hugely beneficial and a win. Players get the opportunity to try different things, play in different places, experience different developmental paths,

and as you pointed out, get the opportunity to get paid before they go pro. There was something maybe a bit off. I think a lot of people will say that Connor Bedard was a traveling road show for the Regina Pats and wasn't you know really benefiting from that financially other than whatever stipend he got sure Pats along the way. Yeah he got some extra subway. Right here's the $5 footlong card it's

got all the stamps and you enjoy that Connor for your pregame meal you know it's there's that there's that element of it. I guess if you are a traditionalist and someone who cares about the rich history and the fabric of junior hockey in Canada, you probably be moaning this because there's probably a lot of small towns across Canada that, you know, where the team is the backbone of the community and into the cultural fabric.

And they're going to, there will be a struggle. There will be a player drain and an Exodus. And some of that star talent will get lost to this behemoth, this Goliath that is NCAA hockey. What do you think is the, what do you think is the main factor? Do you think it's for McKenna, I'm going to go down to Penn State and I'm gonna play against older players to help prepare myself for the pros? Do you think it's the facilities that Penn State has? Do you think it's the nil money that that he can make? Or do you think it's the college experience going down there, maybe playing fewer games,

not having to bus around as much as you would in the dub? There's quite a few factors at play here. It's funny, I don't know what... And I actually don't know the answer to this. I don't know what... Well, I think the answer is the total package. Is if you look at it, you're almost saying,

how do I not do this? Because you just rattled off four things that, quite frankly, he's not able to get if he puts another season in at Medicine Hat. Like what, yeah, I mean, what more does he have to prove in Medicine Hat? Was he gonna go back next year? He's like, yeah, I fell off a little bit, right?

Like he had a hundred and twenty-nine. He could win the Mem Cup, there's that, right? Yeah. had a hundred and twenty nine. You could win the men's cup, there's that, right? Yeah. But I get this part of it. I think we are entering into a very interesting moment in the pathways for development for these players. And I think this is gonna be fascinating to watch play out because the one thing I don't, like for me-

Someone texted in, also get an education. Ha! I mean, come mean, that's not it But he's gonna be a Penn State. He's a Penn State for one year. Yeah He's taking introductory introductory PE and maybe like a class where he does some pottery and then that's it. Like he's not I Saw some people yesterday our good buddy Sam McKee actually from fan 590 at Toronto threw it out on Twitter And he was be moaning the drain of players going from Canadian hockey league teams. And you know, the guys in Ontario,

I do think that there's a little bit more of an affinity because the OHL is such a big thing. And a lot of the dubs big here. I know, but it's just different, right? I think it's different anyway. But Sam's one of those guys that grew up like in one of those towns, following one of those teams. You know, a lot of them had aspirations that you want to go play junior and

like wherever, Peterborough or whatever. I don't know. But the point being, you know, they watch Youngblood over and over again. And that's that that's very much it's a generational thing and it's a cultural fabric thing where guys, that's just the path that you took is you played youth hockey, you went and played junior and then you got hopefully a chance to go play in the national hockey league. That's changed now. And again, I if I look at it from the players perspective I'm saying this is a great thing because you want players to have the opportunities to try different ways to Get money

Figure out how they're gonna develop and get the experience. Yeah, I mean, that's a big part of it. Yeah. And I but I understand that some of these Canadian teams might get left behind and it is a risk that you run now. The real interesting thing for me is how fundamentally different college hockey is going to look because we're getting to the point now where it's going to start being a circuit that you're going to have to pay attention to with regularity. You know, I do wonder about the, I mean, right now,

like college hockey on TV is like nil. Like there's not a lot of it, especially in Canada, right? Like I wonder if that's going to be another phase. So you don't have the big 10 channel. I don't anymore. Right. It was funny when we were in Calgary on the weekend, the big 10 channel shows really old historical programming and they had the 2014 big 10 hockey championship on. I was like, we have to watch that. the week and the Big Ten channel shows really old historical programming and they had the 2014 Big Ten Hockey Championship on. I was like, we have to watch that. So we didn't we didn't watch it.

We didn't watch it. So I'll be very curious to see what this does for collegiate hockey moving forward and how big it truly gets. Because the next the most logical leap on the horizon is that you start getting more of these gigantic schools that don't have D1 hockey programs, getting D1 hockey programs, right? Like how long is it going to be before they have a West coast version where we've seen the rise of Arizona state hockey, for example, right? Where they're now a fully fledged program and the allure of going there

between the weather and the facilities. We talked about Arizona State, they've got a div one hockey team. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Can you imagine? What do you do? I play hockey in college. Where do you go? Arizona State. Mm-hmm. That sounds amazing. Yep. It is. Yeah, and then the next one.

And every once in a while they'll let us over into the golf program and I can hit balls there. The next logical step I guess would be like you start looking at when do the UCLAs and USCs start getting involved with this. Are the girls prettier at Arizona State or Moose Jaw? Yeah, you can find out. You can play in both now. That's the great thing about this. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Sean McIndoe, better known as Down Goes Brown from The Athletic joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Sean, how are you? I'm doing good. So I was gonna start just with the article which appeals to us very closely as old people, like yourself, but I want to start ahead of that

with the Mitch Marner thing. I think if anyone has the writing chops and the history of contextualizing things and writing the narrative, now that that chapter has been closed, where are you on the Mitch Marner era, now that it's over, in Toronto? I think I'm on board with,

I don't even know if I'd say the consensus, but it's something that I have seen percolating up from both the fan base and then concurrently in the media is this idea that this should have worked. This should have been a slam dunk. I mean, Hometown Kid shows up with little pictures of him when he was four years old toddling around in a in a leaf jersey uh... and comes in at the exact right time new era is beginning uh... everything's fresh and new and optimistic

he should have run toronto the way that doug gilmore did back in the. I mean, forget about being the most popular Maple Leaf, he should have been the most popular athlete in that city. Yeah. And it just didn't work.

And I know that there is a very appealing narrative here to point the finger at the fan base and say, you guys did this. You guys were unreasonable. You guys drove the local kid out And and there's certainly some element of that I mean you you guys know you get any fan base you get any group of people that's large enough There's gonna be some idiots in that group and those idiots going to shove their way to the front and make themselves hurt. But I mean, when you look at it, I'm not convinced that a fan base that we

typically point at and say, they're not demanding enough, uh, suddenly was too demanding on one particular player. I just think at the end of the day, Mitch Marner and the people around him were not suited for that role that seemed like such a slam dunk and on some level never wanted that even though they probably thought they did. They didn't want any of the stuff that comes with it and now they get a fresh start somewhere else. Look, full credit to Mitch Marner. He delivered in regular seasons to a level that Leaf fans are not used to seeing. You know, regular season stats, he's one of the greatest Leafs of all time, even

though he only had nine years there. Playoffs, obviously a very different thing, and that's a huge part of the story too. But at the end of the day, I mean, this is, we can go back and forth on whose fault it is and that sort of thing. But this was a breakup that needed to happen. It was time. And I think both sides will be happier for it, maybe not better for it, but at least in the short term, they'll feel like they got what they wanted. You mentioned that the playoff performance was a huge part of the story. Was it the entire story of why things went wrong

between Mitch Marner and the Toronto Maple Leafs and the fan base, or was there more to it than that? There was more to it, but I'll say this. I think the playoff performance at both an individual and a team level, that was the first crack in what should have been the perfect scenario because if it had played out the way it should have, then you know, I said Mitch Marner would have owned the town. Lots of athletes own towns and they have all sorts of warts, both in terms of, you know, themselves, but, you know, in terms of their game, in terms of, there's, there's no such

thing as a perfect hockey player. There's no such thing as a perfect athlete. But all that stuff gets looked past because the city looks at a guy and says, that's our guy. And the, the playoff stuff was kind of that, that first crack that said, okay, you know what, maybe we're not doing the, maybe it's, this isn't a perfection. Maybe we're not doing that. Maybe we're not going to even pretend.

And then that's when I think a lot of the, the other stuff started to rear its head. I mean, you know,'t know give you an example mitch barter was not great with the media put it lightly he uh... you know he he would be would sit down to say things that sometimes they came out wrong where they came out in a way that he should have no one were we're going to be misinterpreted or or maybe maliciously interpreted

uh... you know like saying that our work're treated like gods in this city okay not not actually incorrect statement but the not not the sort of thing you typically say we've just been knocked out of the playoffs uh... that sort of thing he he also had a tendency sometimes come across kind of petulant and sort of you know like he was like he was complaining maybe even when he wasn't that's fine lots of people are great at the media certainly lots of people in the in the NHL don't

come across as super charismatic guys when you point a camera at them fans would have looked past that but when he's already wearing the Goat Horns from a playoff collapse suddenly people latch onto that and it happened to him over and over with people again fairly or unfairly latching onto things that he had done wrong a lot of people would have been able to shake that off a lot of people would be able to turn that into motivation mitch marner and the

the people around them for whatever reason did just were not wired to do that they sought as uh... your personal insults lack of respect however you want to phrase it and uh... d they work at a let it go personal insults, lack of respect, however you want to phrase it, and they weren't going to let it go. And they didn't know how to let it go and eventually that meant that they had to go. I think he's the epitome of the athlete that you hear this saying a lot. He just rubs people the the wrong way. Like that quote about, you know, we're treated like gods here. I mean, he, you know, if you, if you read it without hearing him say it, it's kind of like, oh, you think you're a

god, but that's not what he intended by it. Not at all. He was, he was trying to say like, we're so lucky here and we're so privileged, but it just came out the wrong way. And like, is that the way you took it as well? Yep, absolutely. I mean, he wasn't, what he was trying to express, any fair interpretation is, was,

was not wrong. And you're right. He, he was basically saying, Hey man, this is a great place to play as a player. And you know, we're treated really well. Uh, and, uh,'re treated really well and it just it just came out badly or even you know there were other times where during regular seasons the Leafs would maybe get off to a slow start that

happened a couple years in a row and you know Mitch Marner would would say something that I think coming from someone else's mouth with sound defiant it would sound like circling the wagon playing we all believe in ourselves where you know we're not going to let any of this noise get to it it would sound like what you want to hear a leader state but the way he would put it it sounded tone deaf it sounded like no everything's great

who cares that we're losing games were fine don't need to change anything no need for any of this it it just didn't quite come across right and and again with some of that nitpicking by a fan base that at this point had maybe started to get frustrated with them, sure. With some of that a media that in in a big market like Toronto there's always going to be somebody who tries to find a different angle on something and maybe takes it in a negative way. Absolutely. But some of it was on him as well and you know it just added up over time. Any one of the individual things you would look at and you'd go okay I get why maybe some

people are upset about that but you're not going to run a hundred point player out of town based on him saying that you know they're treated like gods or whatever else he said but it just kept adding up and adding and there never seemed to be a moment that put the fire out and again you know we can point at dozens of things that Mitch Marner in his camp did quote-unquote wrong in Toronto. One good playoff run, one Stanley Cup, one Con Smythe, we're not talking about any of that, ever. It would get whitewashed out of the Mitch Martyr story

and it would just all be about the statue on Legends Row. Just never happened. Nathan Rorick, BC Lions starting quarterback joins us here on the Haliford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. Morning Nathan, how are you? Good, how are you guys doing? We're good, thanks for taking the time to do this. So we're gonna get a vibe check

in how you're feeling first. How are you feeling just emotionally in the wake of a very, very stirring comeback victory on the road in Montreal on Saturday, courtesy of that Sean White walk off? Yeah, feeling good. Obviously, you know, a lot of things to clean up, a lot of things to get better on, to get better at, but ultimately, you know, when you come out with a victory against a really good team in Montreal in a tough environment on the road, you can't be complaining too much. And how are you feeling physically after the game?

Yeah, I'm feeling good. Feeling good. I think I held up pretty well, so certainly not as banged up as some guys, so I got myself pretty lucky. When you're dealing with an injury like that, where part of it is obviously pain management and tolerance, how do you personally straddle the line between knowing that it's a long season, you don't want to aggravate anything, and you've got to sit out for a little bit anyway, knowing that you got to be healthy for the remainder of the season, but also the competitive drive and fire watching your team as opposed to being out there, which is what you truly want to do. How do you balance those two things or how did you balance those two things over the

couple of games that you missed? Yeah, I think it's hard. I think ultimately you have to trust the healthcare professionals, the ATs and the doctors and work within their restrictions, which is sometimes difficult. You want to go out there and I wanted to get every rep to practice and you're just not able to do so at the time. So it's about, I think, having some patience and like you said, the bigger perspective of it's a long season and You know, you're trying to you know Make decisions with what's best for the for the long term. So I think It is definitely striking that balance

I watched both the postgame media Availabilities from you and your head coach Buck Pierce afterwards and you guys both said the same thing about needing to clean some things up And if there was a sense of being happy but not content with the victory. From your perspective, what are some of the things or what are maybe the one key thing that you feel that needs to be cleaned up moving forward? You guys take on the Elks and Edmonton this weekend. Yeah, I think there's a couple of things.

I think offensively, we have to figure out a way to put up more points, start faster. I think ultimately that we have to figure out a way to put up more points, start faster. I think ultimately that comes down to me and to making sure that we're executing at a higher level. But I think as a team, the biggest thing that stands out to us is the penalties. We've had a number of games here in a row where we've had a number of penalties. And the other night was no exception. We had, I think, 11 for 140 yards. That kind of stuff is really gonna set you back. We just can't expect to be able to win too many games

when we're giving them that much free yardage. Especially the stuff after the play, I think that kind of stuff can really be cleaned up. So I'm confident we can, and I'm glad that we're able to make those mistakes early and still come out with a win at this point in the season. Nathan, what was your view of the big fight after the game? Yeah, I didn't get too good of a look of what happened and what started it. Not quite sure even to at this point

that it hasn't been addressed in our locker room. And we're trying to, you know, I guess we're just waiting and seeing what's gonna come out of it. But definitely nothing that you don't like seeing that kind of thing. And I don't think it has any place in the game. So let's bring it back to you and your performance so far this season. It's probably tough to judge

considering you've had to deal with this injury but when you talk about things that you need to clean up, can you get specific on that? Is it just the chemistry that you've got with some of the receivers or are you just feeling that you're not making all the chemistry that you've got with some of the receivers or are you just feeling that you're not making all the throws that you need to? Yeah, I think first and foremost, I think you just got to do better job taking care of the ball. You never want to be able to give them any type of opportunity to have an extra possession. I know we're having a series where we're kind of feeling like we're out of rhythm so you know I think the combination of those things was just having some cleaner execution I think you know going

into any kind of season where you have a new offensive system and a new playbook you know there's going to be some corn pains here and there and so hopefully you know when you make mistakes, you know, that you can execute better, you're looking for, you know, you're looking to improve. And I think, you know, hopefully in hindsight, we're looking back and saying, you know, I'm glad that we had those type of mistakes so that we could, you know, learn from them and ultimately be better because of it. So that's kind of what my headspace is right now. But I think the biggest thing is, yeah, we can't,

can't turn the ball over and gotta put more points up. We're speaking to BC Lions starting quarterback Nathan Rourke here on the Halford and Bref show on sports net six 50. You know, Nathan, you talked about starting on time and putting up more points early and scoring more in the first half. And it's funny, we talk about starting on time a lot across all sports that we cover here with the Vancouver Canucks. It was an issue this year where the games would start slower. They'd come out of the break and start periods slow.

I'm curious for you and for the offense, is that more of like a an actual feel like how you're feeling mentally, physically going into a game or as a slow start more not about the feel or the vibe, but about, um, what you guys are doing in terms of play calling and trying to design things to get points on the board early. Is it more of a tactical thing, or is it more of a feel thing with regards to slow starts?

Yeah, I think sometimes it can be a feel thing. Sometimes when it's a tough environment, it takes us a little bit to kind of get going in that regard. Other times, they're coming out with something that we haven't necessarily prepared for. We kind of have to take some of the best series or two to adjust. But ultimately, I think that we've been put in some really good positions from a Fugic standpoint and ultimately, we just kind of put it together.

Like I said, it starts with me. Nathan, we've had your throwing coach Rob Williams on the show before. And I, I find this stuff fascinating. Um, can you take the listeners through your, your, your journey with Rob in how you used to throw the ball, the technique and how you throw it now? Yeah. Um, yeah, started working with Rob, um, in, and, uh, beginning of, uh, 2021, um, just moved to BC.

Um, and, uh, we're connected over social media. Um, you know, I was, uh, I was a guy and kind of growing up my entire life, never really the strongest arm. I, I was, uh, definitely an arm thrower, you know, all the know all the spin and the spiral that I would put on the ball came from and all the power really came from my arm. So when I was in college I had a lot of arm pain and you know it was really almost a week to week thing and you know I'd feel sore by the last day of practice and then I get treatment for it and hopefully feel better for the game. That was the kind of the regular thing and obviously I didn't you know put up a I was in a super

explosive throw or I didn't get a ton of looks in the NFL the next level so you know so but when I got started seeing Rob I just immediately kind of started seeing you know some some improvements been able to you know throw some improvements, been able to, you know, throw the ball with a little bit more velocity, a little bit more power, add some distance. But also I started, you know, really not having any arm pain. I really don't have a ton of arm pain at all. When I do, I know that something in my mechanics is flipping. And so it's probably time for a little bit of a tune-up with Rob. So it's been kind of life-changing in terms of the personal experience of just having

been able to just throw and continue to throw and throw. And there's guys that come in that I work with who are on the Lions or people that I've worked with, teammates that I've had that are just kind of amazed that I'm able to have the volume of throwing that I usually am able to. Obviously the oblique injury is kind of put a wrench in that, but normally I'm able to throw and not really have any issues with it or any arrow pain.

So I think that combination has been pretty special and I'm very grateful for Rob's involvement in that. How difficult was it for you to fundamentally change the way you throw the ball in, like you can do it in practice when there's no pressure on or where you're not running around, but to actually change something that you've been doing your whole life and then take it into a game.

How challenging was that? Yeah, it's still difficult. You know, I think ultimately what we're trying to do is, is re write, you know, the code of how I think about throwing, right? I think that's ultimately what we're trying to do. And, uh, there's still habits that come up and that you try to try to work on. And I think it's so easy to do it when we're in a session, Rob and I are, you know, we're throwing into a Vancouver in the off season and, you know, there's nobody around, but it's also another thing

to do it in a game when, you know, Sean Oakman is trying to, trying to tackle you or trying to bat that ball down. Right. So I think, um, I think it's just about trying to make sure that all those habits, those things that I'm learning, all those cues that Rob gives me, um, trying to make that part of my natural reaction, making it an automatic thing. My guess is that's going to be a continual thing throughout my career. I think that's just part of what's fun about the position and what's fun about getting better is really the pursuit of it all.

That's really fun for me. And like I said, I'm grateful that Rob's along with me for the ride. One more before we let you go. I'm just curious because I kind of remembered him from his days in Arizona and then, you know, he bounced around the NFL a little bit and landed with you guys in the Canadian football league with BC. Your wide receiver, Stanley Berryhill, the third, you guys have developed a bit of a connection early here in the season. What can you tell us about Berryhill III? Yeah, he's an awesome guy. Super, super glad for him. Are super happy for him. You know, the way that he started the season, he's a very explosive, brings a lot of speed, gives us a vertical threat that you need in a CFO offense to be able to stretch and stress the

defense. He's just a super fun character to be around. He provides a lot of energy for us. After the game, he's bringing donuts in for everybody. He's just a really great vibes guy for the locker room. And we're very thankful that he's, you know, we missed him for a couple of weeks. So he was, he wasn't healthy. And so we're glad that he's back and we'll open that, uh, we'll continue to give him

the ball in space cause he's a, he's a real threat when he gets it. Well, hopefully the good vibes continue this weekend. The lions are in Edmonton to take on the Elks Sunday July 13th 4 o'clock kickoff Nathan thank you very much for taking the time to do this today we appreciate it good luck in Edmonton this weekend thanks guys appreciate it yeah thank you that's Nathan Roerich BC Lions starting quarterback here on the Haliford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650 reminder games this Sunday July 13th 4 o'clock kickoff Lions in Edmonton to take on the Elks for the

second time this season already. That must be, I do, you know, you know, I find this stuff fascinating about how the guys throw the ball and. Football's version of the golf swing coach. Yeah. But can you imagine trying to change your, your motion playing quarterback in the CFL? You're like running for your life and then all

of a sudden, don't forget to rotate your body the right way. I mean, one of the, if you follow quarterbacking, there's all the documentaries, there's countless documentaries like QB1 and a lot of them following the high school and collegiate quarterbacks because the quarterback position has become the most lucrative position in sports, I guess.

So I mean, you've got count there's in the US, there are countless quarterback gurus and coaches and throwing coaches and all this kind of stuff. They've all got different ideas. It's like the golf swing. There's a million different ideas because the position has evolved so much and through the throwing of the football has become really like it's the golf swing. You know, and it's the same thing.

And then and there are-offs to each way. Like you can get more velocity one way or, you know, in the, in the case of Nathan, he was like, my arm was hurting all the time. Yeah. Because that's, you're, you're just using all, you're all arm. Right.

I mean, you hear about the golf swing, right? You're like, oh, your swing is too armsy. You're not using, you're not using your body enough, you're not using physics, you're not using the turn enough. And I think that's generally the idea of what he's working on. And it's funny because if you, I mean, and Mahomes has sort of redefined the conversation. Though if he asked Tom Brady, he says that he was doing it way back in the day anyway,

but changing arm angles to find different throwing windows and all of this stuff. Once it gets introduced by one guy, the trickle down effect is almost immediate where everyone is getting on board with it, right? Where this is the new way to pass and to run an NFL offense and to play the quarterback position. And it's gotta be a tough decision though to make. First of all, who do you go with?

Sure, there's gonna be a lot of inherent trust in, hey, you're going to help me redo the one thing that got me to be paid to be a professional football player, throwing the football. And that's what it is, right? And also, you want to make sure that you don't throw any of your athleticism out. Speaking of the golf swing, I heard a recent interview with Paul A. Zinger, who's an old golfer. Zinger, who's an old golfer. Zinger. And yeah, and his point was like golf instruction right now is over the top. It's crazy and it's almost too much because you've

got, first of all, you've got video, so everyone's videoing their swings, seeing what they look at, but you've also got the track man's, I mean, okay, basketball Ben. Basketball, golf man. You're a really good. Ben's a scratch golfer. How much do you use Trackman? Like, do you know what your spin rate is,

your smash factor, all that sort of stuff? So I know what the numbers are, but I'm not looking at them and paying attention to them every time I go practice. Right. I've never bought into that. I've always been more of a field player. And I think that there's too much, too young right

now of like, you need your swing speed to be this much and you need to have this shaft in your club to generate that speed and whatnot. And there's so much instruction to your point. And a lot of it now, what I tell people when I play with them, like, what do you think of, why am I slicing it? I'm like, okay, well, you're a tennis player.

Pretend you're hitting a forehand cross-court. Yeah. You're going to move your wrist over. You're not going to leave your wrist open to try to go cross-court, hit a baseball to left field. How do you do that? Like, I think playing other sports at a young age and not just honing in on one sport is so

important because you develop the acumen to do I think playing other sports at a young age and not just honing in on one sport is so important. Yeah. Because you develop the, the acumen to do different things. And then when you specialize later on, you can actually get better at that. But if you are just honing in on one thing, there's a reason why people that play in the Little League World Series oftentimes don't make

it to the MLB because of the burnout rate. Their arms get destroyed. What Nathan Rourke did is fantastic and amazing, but it's a bit risky too, because if you change something so substantial, you change your golf swing when you're already a pro. That's pretty crazy. I think he might've been hinting at some things,

like I wonder how the oblique, if that was- I wondered that too. Anything related to your throwing action, because he's like, I might need to tune up with the throw. Right? You never know about that sort of stuff because- He's trying to get the rotation maybe more. Yeah.

I don't, I don't- Ben did a little hip swivel when he said that. So he's changing his style to work around the injury. Is that what you're saying? No, I'm, I'm suggesting- Make it the video today. Yeah. Yeah.

I, I- Say something controversial. Well, no, no, no. Like I, I would just be curious. Like if maybe he thinks, okay, maybe I'm having oblique pain because I'm throwing this way. Or whatever. I was just thinking about Demko, like with his injury, like how he had to

change his way of playing based on his injury and like, is that a similar. Demko's felt like it was just the, he was working too hard. Like it was just like, you're going to burn your body out. Right? And Laddy's talked about this a bunch that the goaltending position, like it's all the unnatural movements when you're amplifying them in terms of aggression of practice and the volume that you're doing it, it's just going to be a wear and tear thing.

Ben brought up a good point, which is rare for our producers on this show. But thank you. When you talked about, you know, playing other sports and using those as reference points, that's really important because I found when especially young athletes specialize in one particular sport, the jargon and all the references are within that. And so it's almost like you're teaching them to do something and using a bunch of vocabulary and adjectives, like what were you saying?

Spin rate, smash rate. Smash factor. Smash factor. What's your smash factor? Yeah, what's your smash factor, bro? What's your smash factor, dude? And then it means nothing to nobody. That term was made up specifically for golf, right?

And it's interesting because if you were to say, well, do it like you would do it in tennis or if you were gonna hit go oppo and baseball or anything, that's something that people are like, oh, that's some that's a real life, real world example. Right. Where you can say, OK, I've actually done this elsewhere. I can try it as opposed to like you need to. And it gets yourself out of the rut. It lets your mind go to something different.

We're like, OK, I understand what that feels like. Imagine telling an 11 year old, it's like you need to upgrade your smash rate by 12 percent. They're like, okay, I understand what that feels like. Imagine telling an 11-year-old, it's like, you need to upgrade your smash rate by 12%. They're like, I don't know what any of that. So the idea is you want to know what your smash factor is in golf and baseball. Smash factor, I'm sorry. I don't know what is a smash factor. I don't even know. It's how close to the sweet spot you hit your driver or any club, your driver especially.

Can't that be applicable to tennis too? You should be able to have a smash factor in tennis. And baseball as well. It's basically the efficiency of your swing. Yeah. How much energy you're creating and how much is getting transferred to the ball. 1.50 is perfect.

Yeah, if you're above or below that, you're done. I'm 1.51, get outta here. We're learning a lot today. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.