Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best Of Halford And Brough 8/22/24

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

Jason Brough and guest host Josh Elliott-Wolfe look back at the previous day in sports, they talk the latest Canucks news w/ The Athletic Vancouver's & Canucks Talk host Thomas Drance, plus the boys tell us what they learned. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Well hit, deep left, in the Oroksos 12, nine unanswered runs by the Reds. I may never play a game for the Toronto Blue Jays. I may never wear a major uniform again. I am officially retired from baseball. At the end of the day, I feel like I'm dead in the past in my homes. Are you better than me?

Well, I never met you, but yes. Good morning, Vancouver. 6 a.m. on a Thursday. It is Halford and Brough. No Halford for a couple more days. It's still Josh Elliott-Wolfe here with Jason Brough. Good morning. Good morning.

Adog, good morning. Good morning. Laddie, good morning. Hello, hello. I'm trying to sneak in a Simpsons reference every intro just for you. Yeah, and I've gotten none of them. That's okay. Halford and Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family

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6.30, Adnan Virk, MLB Network, and the Cinephile Pod. I want to talk to him about Shohei Otani. He is all but certain to join the 40-40 club, and he's going to do it much sooner than anybody else has. I feel like Joey Votto is the first name that I want to discuss with Adnan, and we'll get into that with what happened. But my question for Adnan is, is Joey Votto a Hall of Famer? And I think that's a debate that's going to be had uh over the next little while considering what happened yesterday do you

think it's a debate I guess we could get into that um seven o'clock Charlie O'Connor covering the Flyers for Philly sports uh we'll talk about the Ryan Johansson situation and everything going on with the Flyers uh 7 30 Steve Young Steve Young, Wally Little League head coach. They were at the Little League World Series back now, but we'll talk to him about the experience. His son was on the team, kind of how that was, how special that was, and just the overall experience of being at the Little League World Series.

And at 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance covering the Canucks for The Athletic and co-host of Canucks Talk. So working in reverse, 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance, 7.30, Steve Young, Wally Little League head coach. 7 o'clock, Charlie O'Connor to talk Flyers. And 6.30, Adnan Virk will talk Joey Votto. He's of the MLB Network and the Cinephile Pod. That's what's happening on the show.

Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that?

What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit bccsa.ca. So we mentioned it. Joey Votto. We played it in the intro.

Ten seconds on Instagram. He goes on, posts a video, says, I'm done playing baseball. I officially retire. And it feels very sudden, but Joey Votto is now retired. So what was your reaction when you heard this? We'll include Laddie in this. Laddie's wearing a Blue Jays top.

I know Joey Votto, he was a Cincinnati Red, right? But I think the story that everyone was hoping for this season is that Joey Votto would go out in his hometown playing for the Toronto Blue Jays. And when the Cincinnati Reds came to town just recently, I think a lot of people wondered, will he get in at bat? Will they call him up? Will he get an opportunity? He didn't. Some people were angry about that. but by the sounds of it,

by the sounds of what Joey Votto had to say, he didn't really want it unless he deserved it. And that's kind of the biggest thing is you look at the timing of it and you're like, well, was he waiting to see if he would get a call up because he retired right when the series against the Reds was over? Yeah. Was there a reason for that? And it did seem like that. Well, over. Was there a reason for that?

And it did seem like that. Well, I think there was a reason for it. He wanted to say goodbye to his teammates, and he still considers the Reds his team. Exactly. That's his team. But also, I'm sure he was pushing to potentially return for this series as much as he could. And the thing that he has been very firm on throughout

his entire blue jays tenure has been that he only wants to get a call-up if he deserves the call-up and he's smart enough to know if he deserves the call-up or not um and his numbers to be fair were bad in buffalo and so i think for him... He could play for the Seattle Mariners. Like that's... He'd be their best bat. That's how bad his numbers were. Yeah, they were really, really rough. And from everything,

there's an article up on sportsnet.ca from Shai Davidi. And basically everything that he has from Votto in there kind of makes it seem like he was very aware and kind of felt like the game was passing him by to an extent. 41.

Yeah. It'll happen. It'll happen. So it comes as a surprise, but I think for him it's probably not that much of a surprise based on what he's been going through for the last few months. Yeah, just as we all predicted, right, his career would end filming a video in a buffalo parking lot that's probably not how he thought he'd end up but but you know that's joey vato yeah right like joey vato is uh he's a different cat and there are times when um you know i i don't what is

like here's the thing laddie like like you're a Hamilton guy for me, like the guy, the Canadian baseball player was Larry, Larry Walker. Cause he was from maple Ridge. Joey Votto was appreciated by me. And I think appreciated by a lot of people in BC, but he was Ontario's guy.

Does this make sense? Like, and, and like, and he was Ontario's guy. Does this make sense? And he wasn't, like I'm looking at his stats right now, he played 11 postseason games in his career, right? So it was tough in a lot of ways, unless you're a real hardcore baseball fan that loves this stuff and loves the story of joey vato to really i don't want to say get to know joey vato but to really have him top of mind as a sports fan in vancouver maybe a little different on ontario well for the first half of his career he had a bit of a like a prickly reputation right he wasn't really known as being

mr friendly even after his mvp award i think the last half of his career he made a conscious effort to i think you know play to the media a little bit more and go along with the games a bit more i think maybe he just reached a point in his career where he thought you know what do i have to lose by you know starting to act nice to people and i think he saw that he was going to be kind of a cusp hall of fame guy and he knew that if you buttered up the media a little bit, he might get put over the edge and actually make the Hall of Fame. So it was kind of a story of two careers almost for Votto,

with the first half being sort of standoffish. Even with Baseball Canada, he was a little standoffish for a while, and then he kind of softened up and became the lovable nice guy that we all know him as. But he was still like the lovable nice guy, though, but when he did those things, there was still like the lovable nice guy though but when he did those things there was still a bit of an edge yes like his humor was like like he did that famous interview with mad dog where he kind of put on an act like uh

you know like i heard you were saying i'm the hall of very good. And for the first bit you're watching that, I was like, Oh, is he, is he like mad here? And then as the bit went on and I don't know, maybe we can play that audio if we've got it later, but,

um, or you can just go Google it. Then you realize, Oh, he's just having fun here. And mad dog loved it and everything. And, and,

and it was just kind of a bit, but he had that sense of humor humor that was a little bit off. Is that fair to say? Yeah, and you can see it on his social media too at times. Oh, just the way he retired. Just the way he retired was like, all right. Is that supposed to be like, is he mad? Is he mad?

So all of yesterday, I think a lot of people were wondering, you know, is he mad that he never got a chance? Is he kind of leaving in a, is he leaving in a huff? Like, what's going on here? Because everyone connected the dots. It's like, you know, the Red Series had just ended. He didn't get his chance. Now he's out in the parking lot saying i retired like is he mad about this and i think it became obvious that if there's anyone he was mad at it was you know

father time that he couldn't you know find his game and he didn't really deserve a shot and he didn't he didn't want that token at bat i still still want to know. I still want to know from the Blue Jays' perspective. I want someone from the Blue Jays' organization to walk us through this. Just be like, hey, did you ask him if he wanted it at bat? How did that go down? Did you consider it at all? But from what Joey Votto had to say, he had no bitterness towards the Blue Jays or anything.

He was just upset that he couldn't find his game at the Major League level in order to deserve a call-up. I think the big thing for him, like, he left Buffalo after the game to go to Toronto to actually meet with the media and meet with his former teammates. And I think maybe that was his game plan the whole time, was he wished he was up with the Jays already, played in this series, and then could have retired as a Blue Jay and then done all the meetings with

the media because this is the only time Cincinnati media is going to be up up in this area yeah so he wanted to obviously meet with those people talk with those people at the end of his career but it just happened in a weird way where he was in AAA still and then had to retire drove up from Buffalo and then met with the media and everyone. Have you got that interview you did with Matt? Yes. Let's play this because this is, when is this from? I retweeted on my account last night. I'd actually never seen it, but apparently a lot of people had. I have no idea when this is from, but it's pretty funny.

A couple of months ago, you said that Zach Greinke and I are a hall of very good ballplayers. I think Zach and I would agree. You may be right. But I get the gist of what's going on here. I know what you're doing. You're looking down on us. A couple small market Midwest ballplayers, just because we're not big city just like you. Mr. New York City Sirius XM radio star. Mr. National Television ESPN star

with your Fifth Avenue ties and your crisp pocket squares, your tailored suits and your polished shoes and your hair. Your perfectly coiffed Broadway hair. Must be nice to sit atop that Madison Avenue ivory tower looking down on us with those luscious locks. Not everyone can be the next Roger Peckinpah, Mad Dog. You should be ashamed of yourself. You're a disgrace.

I mean, so I don't know who was with Mad Dog, but his co-host, she was sitting there with a look of like, oh, what's going on here? This was from July of last year. July of last year. Yeah. At any rate, it was very funny. A very unique personality in Joey Votto has retired.

He is a Hall of Famer, right? Yeah, I think so. To me, it's like maybe it's the Canadian of it all in me, but to me, it's not really a question because he has the MVP and then for, I think it's like four other years, he was top 10 for MVP and received MVP votes in other years as well

and was often an all-star. He had a gold glove mixed in there too. Age of analytics too. They'll have a lot more respect. I think the writers that are voting for the Hall of Fame will understand what made Votto so good, which I don't think would have happened in the years past. Maybe in the 70s, 80s, he doesn't get in.

Are you guys, is it, I mean, no Hall of Fame baseball career is sad, but is it disappointing that he never really got to play in a big game? What was the biggest game he played in? I forget how far the Reds even went when they went to the playoffs. The most playoff games he played in a year was five. Yeah. I don't know.

I guess in baseball, I feel like it happens so much more frequently that really good players just never do anything in the playoffs. No, but his team sucked. Sure. Right? He chose to re-up there. Yeah. No, I know.

Throughout his career. So you can't really blame, oh, he played for the Reds. Like I said, he chose to go back. He chose, but I mean, I'm sure he wasn't like expecting them to be. I mean, when he chose, he was probably like, hey, do you think we could get better? You know what I mean? They were like, yeah, for sure, we'll do it.

And it didn't happen. I don't know. I don't know if it's too disappointing. Like, ideally, yes, he would have liked to see him on another team and have an actual chance at it. But it's the same conversation, I think, with Mike Trout that we're having right now, where it's like, this was his choice. Yep.

And we can all tell that the Angels are run poorly, and for a long time, the Reds were run poorly. And that's just kind of, you chose to stay there. So, I love Vancouver. Dunbar Lumber text line, 650-650. Here's a few texts that we received. This is boring. I'm falling asleep.

Talk more hockey. And another one. Who is Joey Votto and what is baseball? And also, Pumpkin Spice lattes are back. Let's go. Oh, someone texted that in? That's important. Okay, well.

It's too early for that. What's going on here? It's 9 September. And I love Pumpkin Spice. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. It's important. Okay, well. It's too early for that. What's going on here? It's 9th of September. And I love pumpkin spice. August 22nd. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. It's crazy.

Too early. You are the seasonal stuff expert, too. Really? Right? Cozy, cozy. Anything cozy? Wait a minute. Is a pumpkin spice latte?

Is that? Yes. That's cozy, right? That feels cozy. Oh, absolutely. I'm more of a, like, I'm not a. Sipping that with a nice blanket on. And like a.

Around the fireplace? How about a grilled cheese? Oh, dude, don't even get me started. I haven't had breakfast yet. The Ian Clark news did hit Vancouver pretty hard yesterday. The news broke yesterday during our show. What's going to happen today? It's been two days of just...

Look at us go. iMac came off his vacation to write an article on this. And here's a sample of what IMAC wrote, and you can read the whole article on sportsnet.ca. Here is what we know. Earlier this summer, Ian Clark went to Patrick Alveen with a proposal to remove himself from daily coaching duties. Now, that was not in the press release yesterday,

but IMAC is reporting it. So this isn't something that happened like last week or anything. Yeah, all there was was the asks. Yeah, he came to us, right? So it was earlier this summer. I've been told it was a couple months ago. IMAC goes on. Yeah, he came to us, right? So it was earlier this summer. I've been told it was a couple months ago. IMAC goes on.

The request was at least partly driven by chronic knee and shoulder problems that Clark endures. Injuries not uncommon for coaches and former goalies who have devoted their lives to the position. Management has a strong belief in Tarinius, that is the new goalie coach, who helped develop key goaltending prospect Archer Seelovs. He was also Shisterkin's goaltending coach?

Correct. In the KHL. In the KHL. Okay. IMAC goes on. As of Wednesday afternoon, the Canucks were close to finalizing a deal for Tarinius' replacement with the Abb, the Canucks were close to finalizing a deal for Terenius's replacement with

the Abbotsford Canucks. Okay. Although Clark had his director of goaltending title removed, management is expected to lean on him beyond his new scouting duties. And I think this is the key part here, uh, for my Mac. He says,

what we don't know is where Clark will base himself. What other factors contributed to his request request for reassignment and what his future will be with the Canucks, um, beyond his current contract. Um, I've heard, yeah,

a few other things about maybe, um, Clark for whatever reason, uh, won't be in Vancouver full-time. Like he won't. And that's why IMAC is writing this. What we don't know is where Clark will base himself. So the thing we said yesterday when there were a few people texting and saying like, this doesn't seem like a big deal.

He's still with the organization. He can still help. It is. doesn't seem like a big deal he's still with the organization he can still help it is because he's not going to be on the ice day to day with the Canucks goalies and I always and and Woodley agrees with me on this like this is not just me like bringing up um golf because I love golf but if you watch the golf channel sometimes a big story will be like Tiger Woods or one of the other big golfers has a new swing coach. Or he's moving on from this swing coach for whatever reason. Maybe they had a falling out. Maybe the player isn't playing very well. He wants to do something.

Or maybe the swing coach has injuries and he needs to move on. Or he needs a change. He needs a change, right? It's a big deal because the most famous swing coaches, like you think about the guys that work with Tiger, a guy like Butch Harmon, right? He helped Tiger in a lot of big ways become the Tiger Woods that he is, or he was, you know, and this Hall of Fame career.

I'm sure this Tarinius guy is a good goalie coach, but we don't know if he's going to have a good relationship with Factor Demko or if it's going to work. I'm sure he's going to have his own ideas about how the position is going to be played, right? Like every swing coach has his own ideas about, you know, how the golf swing should work. So for me, this is just like, it's not the end of the world, but it just adds another unknown to the Thatcher Demko narrative of this season. And that narrative includes, right now, a new goalie coach, his injury, his health status, when he's going to be back, how it's going to look when he's back,

whether or not he's going to be able to stay healthy. And then I would add to this narrative the decision the Canucks could theoretically make next offseason when they have the option to extend his contract yeah there's a lot that plays into it and the thing about the goalie coach part of all of this is when you when you look at Marco Terranius you're like man best case you end up being Ian Clark but there's a lot of like area in between there and so when you're going from someone who like it's a sure thing with Ian Clark so that's that is why it's a it's this this can't be interpreted as like not a big deal but with Thatcher Demko and and the um questions around

him it's just like I said it yesterday but this has long been the one position where canucks fans could look at and been be like okay that's stable don't have to worry about it everything else can be a concern but that's a demko is going to be good ian clark's going to be there this is fine and now you look at it and there's all of us all like it's probably the area of the team where you have the most questions going into the season and that's not a familiar spot for Canucks fans to be in for the Canucks to be in and it'll be interesting to see how they adjust and how that kind of plays into training camp because one thing we've seen as well when there's been questions around Thatcher Demko has been that the Canucks at least in games tend to

play a little bit more conservatively. And so I wonder if, and it probably won't, but I wonder if it changes how they approach trying to improve things offensively. I was just thinking that. Yeah. I was thinking that because the narrative heading into the training camp this season was going to be, okay, they got the structure thing down. Yeah.

Right? They met pressure with pressure, but now they're trying to take another step and that step um based on what happened in the playoffs last season was going to be okay how can we create a little more offense off the rush and rick talk it said well maybe and this was at the end of last season. He said, yeah, I'm going to do a deep dive. I'm going to be doing some thinking about stuff. And maybe this training camp is more about creativity. Maybe it's more about how we can create more scoring chances.

And if you don't have Thatcher Demko there, you're kind of like, maybe we should go over the structure stuff one more time yeah like it is it does definitely throw um a wrinkle into things um i noticed last night just to uh end up uh end off uh what happened that uh jt miller was trending on social media and now for a while i got very used to jt miller trending on on social media it was now for a while, I got very used to JT Miller trending on social media. It was like every day he was trending. But last night I was like, oh, what's going on?

Do people want to trade him again? What's going on? He was trending because of some list that the NHL network put out with their top 20 NHL centers. I love these off-season lists. Oh, my God. This is what Moj talks about. They're the best.

He's like, I hate lists. They're so stupid. They just get people fired up for no reason. That's the point, yeah. That is the point. And I don't want to break it to Canucks fans, but JT Miller is not considered a top 10 center by NHL Network. What?

That's malarkey. I think we should probably cancel the season. It's brutal. But here are the top 10 centers according to NHL Network. JT Miller is at 11, so he nearly cracked it. Number one, Connor McDavid. Fine, we'll give him that. Nathan McKinnon is number two.

Austin Matthews is number three. Leon Dreisaitl is number four. Alexander Barkov is number five. Anyone have a problem with those five going over JT Miller? Those guys are pretty good, right? Sidney Crosby. He's like a good player. Yeah.

He's at number six. Number seven, Braden Point. This is when some people might be like, I'd take JT Miller over Braden Point. This is when some people might be like, I'd take JT Miller over Braden Point. I personally wouldn't, but I get. Jack Eichel coming in at number eight for the Vegas Golden Knights. Jack Hughes at number nine for the New Jersey Devils.

And by the way, Nico Heischer was number 20. I really disagree with that. I think he's better than that. Last season, not last last season, the season before, he was number two in the Selkie Trophy voting. He's a really good player. Here's an interesting one. Number 10, Elias Pettersson.

So according to NHL Network, the Canucks have two very good centers. The 10th best in the league and the 11th best. That's good depth. First thing Petey says to Miller at the training camp, he's like, can you imagine? Check out the NHL Network list, eh? You see that?

Rolls in with number 10 on the list. I'm changing my number to number 10. Sorry, Pavel. Makes JT a Jersey's number 11. At any rate, if you want to number 10. Sorry, Pavel. Makes JT a Jerseyist. Number 11. At any rate, if you want to text in about this, we take these lists with a massive grain of salt. I know some people. No, these are definitive.

I know some people don't. They're like, it's outrageous. Somebody should be fired at NHL Network. No, this is the definitive list. It can't be debated. This is it. This is it. This is it. The NHL Network, the gods of hockey have put it down.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Mark of the Office texting in, right now I would take Bedard over Petey in a one-game take-sale. Yeah, that feels a little... Like, people... Dude, we're going way overboard with the Pettersson stuff. Would you take... Hold on.

Would you take... Yeah, let's ask Ruff. Ruff has thoughts. I can see you, like, thinking it over. Ruff, why is there steam coming out of your ears? Number one Petey discourse leader here. It was bad, man. I know.

It was really bad in the playoffs and down the stretch. Like it was, I hope it was an injury. I hope he was, I hope this off season he's able to reset. That's what I expect of him. Like I'm not saying that he's going to come back and be bad. Like I expect him to be good. I expect him to figure it out physically, mentally, whatever he needs to do, uh, and

come back next season and honestly be shot out of a cannon to start the season. That's what I expect. He's being paid like that. We've seen him do it before. Um, but since you put me on the spot, I don't really want to talk about this, but I've had many conversations with people where my point is,

I don't think people appreciate how bad he was. Sure. There were times where if he was a rookie, he would not have been playing. Yeah. He was that ineffective. And that's fair, but at the same time... I've never seen anything like it, put it that way. Yeah.

I really haven't. It was crazy that someone... Because even when people are playing injured, when star players are playing injured, you're like, you can still tell that they at least have something going for them. But it was. He had no fight to his game. There was nothing there. He had no second effort to his game.

His defensive play was off. He was obviously off, along with the rest of his teammates, when it came to things like the power play. It was bad, yeah and it's and it's frustrating because i think if he was on they could have beaten the oilers i and i think to to start the season to your point he has to be the hardest working player on the team because like think like bounces whatever they might not go your way but you have to at least be putting in more effort hell in training camp so the tone there yeah and honestly scratch i think a lot of it that needs to change this year is the body language on the ice we've talked about it with jt miller and it's

obviously different in the way they express things but i like i just don't want to see a player be visibly disappointed in themselves on the ice after missing a shot I think it's a distraction for the team when you got a guy sitting next to the bench pouting yeah and again I'm I would say I'm probably a Pedersen defender I I think that he's going to be fine I don't really have any concern it's funny like I am too in the because the reason I'm so hard on him is that we've seen him play at such a high level. We know he can do it. Yes.

It's not like criticizing, you know, Vertanen or whoever these, Goldobin, or all these guys that have been kind of like flashpoints, even Podkosiner, Hoaglander. You criticize with love in your heart. No, I wouldn't say that. I criticize with expectation in my heart because I've seen it before, right?

We never saw Jake like, wow, that guy's incredible. What a complete game this guy has. There's a reason we were talking about Pedersen the way we did earlier in his career. This guy could be, he's Datsoukian. Yeah, that's the frustration. And then you see him playing like this and, and,

and then it got, it got weird when there was that disconnect when he said, yeah, I've been dealing with some, I've been, I had, I can't remember if he said tendonitis or if Talkett said tendonitis, but he said it.

And then, um, Talkett seemed to kind of, I don't want to say blow it off, but I also kind of want to say they blew it off. They definitely downplayed it. They downplayed it, yeah. They didn't take it.

And everyone else on the team, like Hronik, nearly fought J-Pat because he was like, I wasn't hurt. Yeah. You know? Man, that press conference was weird because Pedersen went first, too. That was the first question, and he was like, yeah, I got tendonitis and money, and Because Pedersen went first, too. Like, that was the first question. And he was like, yeah, I got tendonitis and many.

And then it felt like he didn't get the memo. And every other player on the team was like, no, I'm not hurt. Like, Quinn Hughes, remember, there was worry about him being injured. And he was like, no, I'm fine. If I'm playing, then I have to hit a certain level. And, yeah. Well, the team doesn't want to make it look like they're making excuses, right? So they just tell all their guys probably be like, just don't. That probably starts with the players, though, right?

Don't tell them you were injured. Yeah, sure. You know, this is our culture now. Yep. So we got a text saying, God, this fan base is going to be even more insufferable over the next eight years. Why are you blaming the fan base? I don't understand the text of blaming the fan base.

The Canucks have made a massive commitment to this guy. It's the fan base's fault Petey isn't playing well. It's all the fans' fault. We all want him to play well. Of course we do. We got the Let's Go Petey chant going. Yeah. Everyone wanted him to play well.

Anyway. And he never got there. Do you know how many times I've ended the Petey conversation with? Anyway. Moving on. Thomas Strance covering the PD conversation with? Anyway. Moving on. Thomas Drance covering the Canucks for The Athletic joins us. I appreciate you taking the time, Drance. This week has kind of been like a return to hockey feel,

like hockey season feel. Do you agree? Well, there's been a lot of news, right? It's been an interesting week, I think, hockey news-wise. Really, since the Holloway-Broberg offer sheets, there's been a lot of news right it's been an interesting week i think hockey news wise really since the like holloway broberg offer sheets it's been a steady drumbeat you know you get the maddie bernier's extension uh you have some canucks news that's pretty hard to decipher uh overall uh some of it concerning um and then you have you, the Lion-A trade, a variety of other things. So, you know, I think you've got, I assume, management teams arriving back in their home cities and preparing for training camp and some news trickling out as a result.

And yeah, I think that plus the weather in this city. Yeah, I think it's natural that we're feeling like training camp is around the corner because, you know, in fact, it is. Drancer, what have you heard on the Ian Clark situation? Have you heard anything in addition to what we already know? Yeah, much the same. I mean, I was surprised by the news because the Canucks were surprised by the news, right? Like this happened fast. I don't think this was expected by anyone until about 10 days ago.

And so, you know, this is a relatively quick pivot. The good news for the Canucks, obviously, is that Clark and his sort of book in terms of scouting goalies remains with the organization. Marco Terranes is highly thought of. You know, like Ian McIntyre, I'm hearing not just that the Canucks will replace Terrenius in Abbotsford, but that they're in the red zone with a candidate. So, you know, I don't know that I have a ton to add in terms of overall news. I do think this is a pretty significant change in terms of the day-to-day experience for Canucks goaltenders.

You'll recall that Thatcher Demko lobbied hard for the organization to extend Ian Clark back in the offseason of 2021, when he was a pending free agent, along with a variety of staffers, sort of at the tail end of that, you know, pandemic season. And, you know, there's a reason for that. Like, this is a guy who's gotten tremendous results across, what, 15 years with the organization, right? Whether it was with Luongo or even Cloutier, sort of his first time out. And then, obviously, what we've seen with Markstrom and Demko, both emerging as, you know, as a finalist quality goaltenders

during his second stint with the Canucks. I mean, this is a pretty tremendous loss. One of the most highly regarded goaltending coaches in the sport. And, you know, him sort of being shuffled up, which, you know, I do think that the injury stuff or the or the body stuff, given his age, I like I think that's real, you know, in terms of the on ice demands of being a goalie coach. I do think he was sort of approaching a moment where that wasn't going to be a realistic, um,

sort of role for him to fill. Um, and then, but you know, I don't really understand the, like losing the director of goaltending title, uh, in the move.

Um, hasn't really been explained to me beyond sort of the idea of what you actually do, your, your job description versus your actual role that, you know, it's not seen as a big deal. But this definitely happened. Like one thing I checked was, did this happen earlier and I'd missed it? Right. But no, it did. It did, in fact, happen last week or this week as a result of the shuffle. That sort of adds just just like a veneer

that's difficult to not shrug at and sort of be like, what's going on there. Um, because it doesn't seem as simple as, you know, 60 year old plus goaltender asks for diminished responsibility. Uh, and the team accommodates him.

Like it does seem slightly more complicated than that as a result. Uh, are you hearing anything on Thatcher Demko himself with regards to his health, uh, status for training camp or even the start of the regular season oh I don't think training camp is probable at least not at the start of training camp um you know the way it was sort of framed to me was the timeline you know hopefully matches up with opening night like he, he'll return for opening night.

But, you know, the way that I sort of interpreted that was maybe questionable to start the season, right? I know you can put a more hopeful spin on it, right? Like, it's absolutely accurate to say the team's hopeful that he'll be in the lineup on opening night. But, you know, they're not certain of it, for sure, at this point. There's sort of a cone of silence around exactly what's happened here. Certainly no one that I can reach or chat with about it will confirm surgery or exactly what's going on here.

But I do know that it's related to sort of the the lower body injury that he sustained in the playoffs last year so i i don't know if that's a sort of a continuance or or if this is like rehab from a from a surgical procedure um but yeah i mean it's interesting and it's a bit concerning because we all know that this team's ceiling case, right? Not, not just in the regular season, but, but in the playoffs, uh, leans pretty heavily on the goaltending advantage they have almost every

night when Thatcher Demko is in net. Uh, I still expect him to be in that a lot of games for the Canucks this upcoming season, uh, whether or not they have him out of the gate. You know, I,

I do think that's a matter. Um, you know, I, I think that's a question. Like, I, I really do think that's a question um you know i i think that's a question like i i really do think that's a question i i think the team views it as a question at this point and how do they kind of react to that is this a hey pto situation and and see if demko is ready for the

start of the regular season or could they be looking at maybe adding someone on a one-year deal and then potentially giving archer sheil off some more time and administrative need. Yeah, they're discussing their options. I mean, they have Patera, they have Seelovs, they have Votor Pito and Nikita Tolopilo. You know, I'm sure you'd love to add a veteran name. I know Kevin Lankanen's a name that keeps getting brought up and that's a good one because I think he's actually pretty good. Aside from puck handling, I think he's a really good puck stopper. The puck handling's problematic, but that's, you know, something you can work around, hopefully.

Well, and look, I don't want to diminish it, right? Like, one thing Cee Loves and Demko both have is they're both really good puck movers. So it's not like we've seen the Canucks sort of cope with that, a more limited puck handler on the back end in a while. And given sort of some of the mobility concerns we might have with their defense, I do think that's notable, right? So not perfect by any means, but yeah, there's still names available. And I do think that they're talking about

and exploring their options um i haven't heard as explicitly as rick dollywall's reporting that you know they're they're really aggressive in the goalie market but i trust him i trust dollywall on that so i wouldn't shock me at this point the club does have some more contractual flexibility in the wake of the pod coles andson deal to bring in a body like that. You know, Patera will require waivers, but Shelovs won't. And I still sort of look at Shelovs not requiring waivers as a weapon that the Canucks can wield to really enhance their goaltending depth if they decide to slow play. Sort of his emergence as a full-time NHL backup.

You know, which also carries the side benefit of him playing more games overall which I do think matters given his age and frankly given like this isn't skepticism about she loves this is you know we've seen a guy who looks to me like a player who maybe has like starter ceiling at the NHL level well that's a guy I don't want wearing a ball cap for all but 25 games. Exactly. So I sort of look at their goaltending options as being fine without an ad. I won't be stunned. That said, I won't be stunned at this point if they do make an ad,

especially if, you know, depending on how Demko tracks over the next week or two weeks or 10 days and sort of how they're feeling about his probability of playing in October. So we'll sort of see exactly how they navigate this. What it will sort of put a premium on is this Canucks team maintaining their defensive form early in the season, right? Like, I think that's going to be essential here because, you know, I think the way that this team played defense

is part of the Shelov story that we saw in the playoffs last year, right? Like, the fact that they were able to survive with three goaltenders in that Nashville series. Not just survive, but win the series in six. The way Shelov was able to play is they pushed the Oilers to the brink. You know, all of that, I think, is obviously a credit to Shelob, the credit to the game of his life that Casey DeSmith gave them in game three in Nashville before his injury, but also, I think,

to the way that this team was capable of locking it down. If they're able to play like that again, if they're able to maintain that form, even with, you know, Zdorov and Lindholm's departures, and I buy it, like I think they will, you know zadorov and lindholm's departures um and and i buy it like i think they will um you know then i think patera and shilov should be enough provided that demko is not missing more than like four or five weeks to start your campaign yeah your answer we were laughing earlier we were gonna expect uh rick talkett to come out and say the uh creativity part of training camp has been canceled and we will be now back to structure and pressure meets pressure. Like,

I just wonder how much this does change the, the focus for training camp. I'm sure, you know, obviously they're still going to be like, we've got to figure out the power play and we still got to get more chances off the rush. But,

um, you know, it does add a bit of a wrinkle into things. Well, it does, but I also think you need to, you know, so first of all, I think the creativity thing is, is an evolution, right. Of sort of what talk it's able to do in part because the, the staples quote unquote, right.

Have been implemented to a point like when was the last time you heard rick talk and talk about a line change remember you know remember early on in his tenure yeah like the simplicity of the things he was focused on you know what i'm saying like i do think there's level garbage goes in garbage can like it was like the homer parenting class guys when you're making a line change it's really important that you skate fast to the bench because when you skate fast to the bench, the other guy can get on on the ice quicker and that's important. A hundred percent. But it's like, you know, they started with garbage goes and garbage can. Right. And like this past season, it was like we get the best results using the

washing machine when we use white vinegar instead of bleach right like they got to like a higher level um and and you know i think this uh adding the offensive creativity to it is is another level that i think is natural and needs to come i'd add this like you know arguably this team is not going to be as deep right on defense as they were last year i mean i know what happened to cole in the oiler series but that shouldn't obscure how good he was prior to getting cut, right? Like prior to him sustaining that cut in that series. But like in the Nashville series, he's tremendously steady. All season long, his defensive game was through the roof. And I don't need to say too much about Zdorov.

You know, I think there's a lot of Canucks fans that are still working on the statue of him uh from his playoff run um but you know you lose those guys and i don't know that i don't know that they're like significantly more limited having brought in forbert and you know kept tyler myers um brought into harney i mean there's there's an there's a path to being just as good on the back end, but there's risk there and some uncertainty replacing two really steady, big-bodied contributors who played really well for this team throughout last season,

in Zdorov's case, especially in the playoffs. And this team tried really hard to keep Elias Lindholm. Going 1-2-3 down the middle, Miller, Patterson, Lindholm, when we saw this team in the playoffs, gave them some of the best center depth in the league, right? And like three really good, especially with how Miller played last season, three really good two-way options at pivot. Well, that's kind of gone, right? Like you've got a pretty clear top six of two and a pretty clear bottom six of two and you know i like suitor in the middle i like bluger in the middle but there's that you know neither of them is elias of like closing space on uh skaters and winning a ton of draws

as a righty and being an excellent exceptional penalty? Like, there is a downgrade there. This team, however, has upgraded significantly on the wings. Well, right there, like, you need to be more of an attacking team than this team was in the playoffs last year, in part because that's how this team is built now. Like, this team is built to still be able to play Rick Tockett quality defense, don't get me wrong, but their strengths are a little bit different than the team we saw last year. I don't know that we've talked about this very much in this market,

but I think there's a need to be a team that's a little bit more aggressive, that's a little bit more, that tries to bring a little bit more scoring punch and creativity to the on-ice proceedings, because I think that's what this team is built to do now in some ways. Is the defense built to get the puck into the hands of those forwards? Well, certainly the top pair is, you know, and, and I think, I mean, I mean, look, I don't think the team, I don't think the defense was built to get the puck into the hands of those

top forwards last year either. It worked right. So, you know, one of those things where having seen it work uh having seen that the Canucks were able to withstand Ford like it wasn't even even when you think about how that series turned against the Oilers um like it's not like they were forechecked into oblivion it's not like teams had the same level of success where if you were able to attack the Canucks at the stem of their breakout they had no answer and and coaches you know Boudreaux and Green uh preceding talk it sort of kept having to make these choices they're like of like are we going to defend or are we going to

attack and we can't seem to do both effectively um you know this team still wasn't in my view um great or dynamic at generating scoring chances but they made it count then they made it count sufficiently enough that they you know got to within a game of the conference final so um you know it worked last year uh and i don't know that it's like significantly worse i do think zadora brought real secondary puck moving ability yeah skating ability yeah yeah and that marauding sense of like oh this guy oh we you know this guy could just skate it in and go around the net although you know it's worth noting that teams often when they game plan for zadorov are like comfortable to let him handle the puck do you remember that time he tried to go coast to coast and gave it up at the blue line?

I can't remember who it was. I mean, it was kind of funny, but it was also a classic Zdorov. Yeah, but in the playoffs, he was so good at avoiding those moments. That was really where his game took that step. Now, so, you know, I do think there's, look, you know me, I'm always concerned about whether or not the Canucks have enough puck moving on the back end. And, you know, I'd add this, I'd add this.

I think they do, given how dynamic their top pair is. My concern has always been with the way that this team sort of builds in their depth, what does it look like if Hronik and Hughes don't combine to play 163 of 164 possible regular season games next season right like do they have you know this is also why i've always been like i really like a guy like brandstrom for like i love the idea of this team having some insurance yeah so that they can still play the same style with that top pair on the ice

in the event that one of them were to miss a couple weeks or just miss some time, which it feels like an inevitability for defensemen in the NHL. Or even if you just need to mix it up once in a while, like bringing in Broberg for day RNA like the Oilers did. Right. And, you know, we'll sort of see exactly where this goes. You know, I'm not I'm not certain we won't see them experiment a bit with Hronik on a different pair. Right. Like I still think that's a priority for this team to see. I think they want to challenge Hronik to drive his own pair. You know, and when Alvin said that, it was like it probably was partly motivated by the the negotiation dynamics of a horonix expiring deal but i also think it was like fundamentally this belief that when you play horonix with hughes

he defers to hughes a little bit too much and that this is a player who can actually do more and grow more um if he is a little bit more assertive a little bit more decisive as like um you know a straw that can stir the drink for this team as a puck mover and as sort of an offensive contributor. And I think there's, you know, sort of skepticism internally about whether that will ever happen. And because your best play when you're on Hughes's right side is usually to just pass the puck left. So, you know, it's going to be interesting to see exactly how the Canucks line up and whether or not Hughes and Roenick are as much a fixture next season

as they were this past season. And then, you know, as sort of a sub-point to that, a sub-header, as it were, like, does this team have enough puck moving, given how well Cole makes his first pass and given the losses of Doroff's sort of secondary puck-moving push? You know, that's an open question. And I do think it's fair to note that uh that certainly we should be looking at this team as as not necessarily a lock to jump over the bar that they absolutely were able to uh throughout last

season transfer we only got a couple minutes left so i might regret asking you one more question but yeah um what do you think Quinn Hughes learned from the playoffs interesting um you know look I want to ask him that directly um before I sort of get too much into his mind um I think the one thing I'll say is that I never knew before watching that series that Connor McDavid's rush threat actually has defensive impact. Like I never knew before I watched that series and watched Quinn Hughes that the way McDavid can get on you, the way that any mistake you make can, you know,

result in a bullet train heading all alone and on your goaltender changes the sort of like risk reward ratio. Yeah. I'm just going to stand at center actually. You know what I'm saying? And I think for Hughes, you know, you, you've got a thinking man's player. You've got a guy who literally is out there like out spatial problem solving his opponents. And, and all of a sudden he's doing. You've got a guy who literally is out there like out spatial problem solving his opponents and all of a sudden he's doing it

for seven games with you know McDavid watching film and trying to figure out ways to get loose and I do think I do think there was a you know like a chess match element where maybe he wasn't as aggressive as the Canucks

needed him to be, especially from a goal scoring perspective as that series went along. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.