Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Best of Halford and Brough 9/23/25

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, plus they chat with CFL Commissioner Stewart Johnston about the sweeping and controversial rule changes coming to the Canadian Football League. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Jackson hands into Henry. Five balls out. Picked up by the lion. They've got it inside the 20-yard line. DJ Reed with a football in his hands. going to throw it to Jared.

I've never sat on the bench and said, well, I learned a lot today. First pitch, Vermean swings, lines it into center field. That'll do it. Freddie Vermean walks it off. And the Padres are headed back to the playoffs in 2025. Good morning, Vancouver. Six o'clock on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody.

This Halford, it is, bro. It is SportsNet 650. We are coming you live from the Kintech Studios and beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well.

Hello, hello. Halperin Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Get out of the penalty box of debt and back into the game with a financial fresh start. Visit them online at Sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. North Star Metal Recycling. They recycle you get paid.

Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studio. Kintech, footwear, and orthotics, working together with you in step. Big show ahead on a Tuesday. It's a four-guester here on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Guest list today begins at 630. Greg Wyshinsky, our ESPN, NHL, Insider. It's going to join the program.

We'll go around the league for some of the bigger stories of the week already. Out of Vegas, turns out Alex Pichangelo's career might not be over after all. He is not ruled out returning to the Golden Knights. We can also talk about a hilarious story. out of San Jose where the sharks put up a banner for a trophy they did not win. What? Talk to Wish about that. What's the deal with that? Wish also wrote about some of the American players

who've just returned to training camp talking about their snubs from the Four Nations tournament, how they're using that to fuel as motivation for the Olympics. So we'll talk to Wish about all that at 6.30. 7 o'clock, Brandon Bachelor, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks right here on Sportsnet 650. Canucks had a day off yesterday. They returned to practice today at UBC.

We can get batches, reflections on Sunday's 5-3 loss to the Cracket in Seattle. Also do an early look ahead to tomorrow's game, the next preseason game. Wednesday 7 p.m. from Abbotsford, Jason, as the Canucks host the Calgary Flames. 7.30 is a big get for us on this day. Stuart Johnson, CFL Commissioner, is going to join the program. And what was a monumental day for the league yesterday and the first major move of his tenure as the commissioner, Johnston and out sweeping changes to the CFL that are going to be phased in over the next couple of years.

Lots to get into about field size and rouge amendments and the repositioning of the goalposts and the play clock. We're going to talk about it all. He wants to turn it into the NFL. We're also going to talk about how Nathan Roark hates it all. That's all coming up at 7.30 today with CFL Commissioner Stuart Johnson.

Speaking of Nathan Roark at 8 o'clock, his general manager, Ryan Rig Maiden, is going to join the show. So at 7.30, we're going to have the CFL commissioner on to talk about the biggest set of rule changes, possibly in the 67-year history of the CFL. And then at 8, we're going to get the general manager of a team where I think has the most outspoken critics so far of these rule changes. It wasn't just Nathan Rourke popping off in the media yesterday about CFL changes. The Lions Kickers, Sean White also took to Twitter to voice his displeasure. So Ryan Rigmaidon's going to join us at 8 right after,

We talked to Stuart Johnson, CFL Commissioner. So it's a very CFL heavy show, which I think is befitting, given how big a day it was for the Canadian Football League yesterday. Working in reverse on that guest list, 8 o'clock Ryan Rigbaden. 7.30, Stuart Johnson, 7 o'clock, Brandon Batchelor 630, Greg Wyshinsky. That's what's happening on the program today. Greg, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. No, what happened? I missed all the action because I was. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance,

making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.ca.ca. So as we've already mentioned yesterday, a profoundly league-altering day for the Canadian Football League, a shortened field, an amendment to that single point known as the Rouge and a bunch of other rule changes

are coming in over the course of 2026 in 27, a two-part plan on Monday announced by CFL Commissioner Stuart Johnson. So I'm glad we have the commissioner on the show today because I want to ask why. Like there were some kind of

broad press release-y type answers yesterday that we got, but I don't know in your reading or anything if you came across anything but it's just it's just why

like what are we what are they trying to accomplish here okay well with which particular rule because each rule has a sort of very thorough explanation attached to it the why questions you're asking I think can also apply to why do this now in the middle of a season

why do this without apparently consulting with a number of the key stakeholders meeting players because it sounds like the players were totally caught off guard. In the release, Stuart Johnson did say that this was pretty much a collaboration between himself, team owners, and the chairperson. So this was done at a very high level. At the governor level. The very high level.

Which governor, would you like to shorten the end zone so that every stadium can accommodate the correctly sized end zones? They all checked in with their butlers before they made a decision? No, like I did think it was interesting. at the same time, it does kind of make sense because the commissioner does serve at the best of the owners. I mean, that's who he works for. Now, why they decided to do this midseason

remains unclear. What the changes are designed to do, I mean, if you want to break it down into the sort of Coles-nose versions, it's definitely to lean a lot less on special teams and to remove how profound a role of special teams play in the CFL regular season games.

There's also a non-reesome. to increasing the speed of play, the amount of offense scored not with rouges and field goals and missed field goal returns, which some people argue made the game distinctly and uniquely Canadian. The fear, of course, is that these changes are with an eye to what, Jason, making the game American, turning it into the NFL.

And my, at first blush, I would say, it seems like a bit far-fetched to suggest that because some of the key tenets of the Canadian game still very much remain, still three-down football. The field is still, and it will remain wider than its NFL counterpart, and it's still 12 players on the field as opposed to 11. And those are big, big, big things that make the game Canadian. The phrase that I read, the way it's being sped from, spun from a league level was trading field goals for touchdowns. How does that happen? Does that mostly have? happen because essentially you're going to add 15 yards now to any field goal attempt because

correct it's part of it the end zones are going to be 15 yards deep now and the the the goalposts are going to be moved behind the end zone like they are in the NFL there's okay let's be clear here because I actually don't have a problem with that there's a lot of theorizing and a lot of projections from the league on this yeah so with regards to changing field goals for touchdowns There is a thought that too many teams settle for field goals in the Canadian football league because they're relatively easy to hit. Part of it has to do with where the goalposts are. And I'll be honest, I think it's kind of ridiculous when you have a, like,

and here's a 17-yard field goal attempt, right? There is that to be considered. There's also the point, and this one is being hotly debated, at the player level especially, about the goalpost being an obstruction in the field of play. Because we will play the Nathan Rourke audio yesterday. He shot that down. And as a signal caller, I tend to lean towards his field of expertise. He's a quarterback.

He throws balls into the end zone. He says it's almost a strategic thing where you can use a pick play, man. You can utilize it. However, in the release, the CFL said that the projected gains of reposition goalposts would result in 10% more end zone completions and 60 more touchdowns per season. Now again, I don't know the math that they used on these projections. They did not unveil the math. We will talk to Stuart Johnson.

today about it. They also had the thought that while retaining the 65-yard width of the field, reducing the size of the end zones would ensure that scoring remains high and the kicking game remains relevant

but the teams again would try and alter the course of their offense because of it. Now there's also the point that this would also ensure ligwa uniformity of the end zones because the large end zones according to where you were playing were sometimes like amended a little bit

I suppose see you know I think there's there's a lot of CFL fans hardcore fans that love the quirkiness of the CFL yeah do you know what I mean like

okay let's talk about this for a second you go into one stadium and you're like watch out for that end zone because it's you know it's not rectangular or whatever there there's a little cutoff in the in the corner there because There's not enough room in the stadium. And they like that.

They like the idea of the referee, you know, having to blow in the time clock start. And it's going like, hurry up, come on, man, let's go. Okay, let's discuss this because it's a kind of a weird conversation to have because when you start talking about the individual rules and the sort of arcane breakdowns of what they're going to do, you might lose some people because they're like, whatever, like,

okay, you've amended the rouge. The bigger picture here, I think the more interesting conversation, the more profound conversation, especially in light of what we've gone through over the last year, is the Canadian identity being threatened. Yes. Yes. So that is 100% the issue, the main issue.

Like there might be a little bit of like, you know, discussing the minutia of all this stuff. But like what hardcore CFL fans are worried about is losing the identity of the game. And that's why. that's why the owner of the Argonauts, which is MLSC, Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment, same guys that own the Leafs and the Raptors, the same guys that made a marketing deal with the Buffalo Bills just a couple of weeks ago

and then all of a sudden this comes out are like, wait a minute, there's a new commissioner in and I don't trust this guy. I don't trust that this guy isn't eventually going to take us to where we are some sort of minor league or feeder league to the NFL, and then all of a sudden the Canadian ratio is done, all of a sudden we're at four downs, oh, they're going to narrow the field down,

and, you know, because Stuart Johnston also said, like, I won't guarantee that we will never go to four downs. And he couched a little bit. He was like, I just don't ever say, like, never. Sure. I don't think you should ever say never. And, you know, people are like, okay, this, there's a lot of, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence out there that 20 years from now or something, it's just going to be American football.

So it's probably a good time right now to play the audio from Nathan Rourke yesterday. So it was a pretty explosive day by the standards of BC Lions, media relations on a day-to-day base. since this is that Nathan Rourke was asked about the changes that Stuart Johnson had implemented across the league that were going to take place in 2026 and 2027. Nathan Rourke, to put it bluntly, went off yesterday. This is about just over two minutes of uninterrupted Nathan Rourke audio

where he is very emotional and very irate about the changes being made and the damage that it might do to the Canadianness of the Canadian Football League. Here now is BC Lions quarterback Nathan Rourke. Today talking about the CFL new rule changes. New rule changes are garbage. It's garbage.

I, as many people did, fans and people who play in this league, grew up watching the CFL and loving the game. I grew up in Ontario, played C-Canadian football rules all my life, was aware of the, and was a fan of the league down there, but was a fan of the CFL because of its differences. I went down to the States.

proud of the game, being able to explain the differences, what I, the, the waggle, the yard, the extra person. These are the things that are unique about the game that make it different. And there's, the rule changes to me make it sound like we want to be let league down south. We want to be that league. And from recent history and years past, leagues that have tried to emerge, try to be like the NFL haven't existed very long. That CFL gain has existed for for longer than the NFL. And there's a reason for that. It's unique.

The fans love it. I grew up loving this game. And they're changing that. They're getting rid of a lot of things. The worst part I think about it, honestly, is the fact that the people who play football, who have the football knowledge, were not consulted about this. Players weren't consulted to coaches, management. Nobody was insulted.

This was done on their own accord. This was done independent of asking anyone who actually knows football. what they want to do, what they think would be better. We have a commissioner who hasn't been here for a year who's already trying to make, trying to change the game. And I don't believe he loves football as much as I do, as much as many fans do, as much of people

who grew up loving this game. I don't think you cannot make adjustments like this and tell me that you like football. You love the Canadian football game because you're changing it. And what we're moving towards is not the Canadian football game that I grew up loving, that I'm passionate about, that I came back and played.

I went down and played in the NFL in that league. And I came back knowing that this is a game for me because of the uniqueness of it, what's special about it, and we're changing, we're getting away from that. And that, you know, frankly makes me pretty pissed off. So there's a lot, obviously, to unpack there. First things first, that is the most passion I think I've ever heard Nathan Rourke talk about anything. Anything. And we've had him on the show.

We've heard countless scrums with him. Been pretty exposed to him from a media side of things. He unloaded. And he, I mean, he put Stuart Johnson square on the cross airs. where it almost got to be a personal attack. And I think that speaks to how passionate and how emotional he was yesterday. And I was watching some reaction from the,

I will say the TSN side because TSN's a big part of the CFL. And a lot of people are wondering if they were part of this. Are they pushing for these changes? Well, it make for a better TV product for them. And the reaction from the likes of Luke Wilson, who has become a very interesting character of all this. Absolutely.

And I think it was Davis Sanchez. They were kind of like, they were quite critical of Nathan Rourke. Yep. For his, so you know what? All of this,

it's actually kind of interesting. It's the most interesting the CFL has been in years. It's great for the league. Great for the league. It really is great for the league because when Randy Ambrosia would come up with his pie in the sky,

ridiculous ideas about, you know, global domination or whatever for the CFL, like, it was kind of like, all right, you kind of made fun of it. But like this stuff is, because also and you also you're like you know he'd talk about expansion and that sort of thing and then

nothing would happen yeah right like this is going to happen this is going to happen they're they're they're they're going to make these rule changes you know the the ambrosy stuff was always like yeah that might happen in five years but like nothing was done to the game and my my issue with ambrosi was that like things needed to change in the CFL you you need to do something in the like focus on the teams that are there, focus on Canada, and, you know, John in the township texts in and he says, this is why I love Rourke, best player in the league. He shares the same passion as myself for the league.

I don't mind the changes, but I love seeing his passion for the Canadian game. And I think there is a lot of passion for the Canadian game. And, you know, especially, and you kind of mention this right now with our relationship with the United States. And there's a lot of people that are looking. Some people like it. But there's a lot of people in Canada. The majority of people in Canada looking at the United States right now and going, I don't want to be like this. Even football.

Even football-wise, I don't want to be like them. And I understand that knee-jerk reaction to the news of yesterday, that all this is is the Americanization of Canada. I just think it's a little too reactionary and it's not grounded in reality enough because here's one thing you got to consider. Every major sports league in North America has undergone significant rule changes over the last little bit. I was thinking about baseball. I was watching the Padres walk it off to get into the playoffs yesterday. They clinched last night and I'm looking at it and I, you know, sometimes I forget that not too long ago, extra inning games did not start

with a runner on second base to speed things up a long, not too long ago we would have 17, 18, 19 inning games not with regularity, but enough to the point where they decided we cannot do this anymore. How about regular regular nine inning games that were three and a half hours long?

Baseball fundamentally changed the way the game is played. They sped it up. And why? Because they wanted young, young demographics. They were getting all their fans stolen by the Savannah bananas. They said, we've got to do something to speed this thing up. So I want to read some quotes from Keith Pelly,

who is now in charge of MLSC, but has a long history with the CFL, including being in charge of the Argonauts, I believe, for a few years. And he said, to the overdrive guys,

he said, I've come back 20 years later and I go, nothing's changed in the CFL. We need to make change. We need to grow. TSN does a phenomenal job of promoting the CFL and the fact that you guys are here is greatly appreciated, but we need to do more. You need to take chances. You need to make changes and you need to take bets.

I'm sitting there saying the NFL is the biggest football league in the world. How many Gen Z NFL fans are there compared to how many Argo Gen Z fans there are? So that's about getting the younger players. But that's where the critics will argue, oh, so you're trying to make the CFL more like the NFL in order to attract the younger demographic that doesn't have as much interest in the CFL. So you can say, like, I agree with you. You have to appeal to the younger fans because you're losing younger fans. and we all know about the demographic challenges of the CFL, but you're just kind of conceding there

that you want the CFL to look more like the NFL to appeal to those fans. Here's another interesting thing that he said. We need everybody's help selling tickets, including the diehards. There are only three types of fans. There are the diehards, and there's fewer and fewer diehard Argo fans right now. Then there are the bandwagon jumpers.

When you're winning, they get involved. And then there's the second bucket, which is the biggest bucket. And those are fans that come because it's fashionable, it's cool to be at. That involves corporate and consumers, and that's the bucket that we need to grow. So the question becomes, are these rule changes going to make the CFL cooler? I don't see that, but I very much agree with that. sentiment. Okay, my thought on everything that, you know, I talked to people yesterday, read as much as I could yesterday, listened to as much as I could yesterday. As far as I understand it,

these rule changes and call me naive if you want, are not meant as the first step in trying to turn this into CF or NFL North or some sort of feeder league for the NFL. I think they are genuinely designed to improve the product to make it more aesthetically pleasing, have more touchdowns and try and change the way the game is currently played because I don't know if you've been paying attention to this or not but one of the pundits that you talked about Luke Wilson has spent the entire first 11 weeks of the CFL season talking about how poor the quality of play is and how boring the games can be and there hasn't been any significant rule changes to amend that in 67 years not significant to the point where the national football league has

made massive changes to everything and does it on a near yearly basis now where they review all sorts of game operations to see if they can make the game more aesthetically pleasing. They don't even try and hide behind it it. Because all the stuff that Rourke was saying like he's like, the extra guy on the field, the waggle, which is the running start, I think, for

at the game, that all remains. That all remains. Yes. Right? So he was complaining about stuff that is still in the game. He was going down the slippery slope argument, I think. Yeah, but I think that's a lot of it. So I think that's when we have our conversation with Stuart Johnston.

I think the main focus should be like, how do you reassure CFL fans that the CFL will always be unique? And that's a very loaded question because uniqueness is almost in the eyes of the beholder. You know what I mean? It's like, well, we still have some things that make us unique. It's just less things than before.

Yeah, but you got to keep the least. league from dying. So, like, you got to make these changes. And I think that... The league will die if you don't change. Yes. Like, Stuart Johnson himself said seven of the nine teams lose money. Correction. The league... It's a non-sustainable business model. The league will die if the changes don't work.

There's no guarantee that these changes will make the product better. There's no guarantee unfortunately. Yeah, but if you don't do anything, if you don't do anything, you retain the thing that people like right now. Their ideas, there could be more people that like this. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you think there were, I think they were, I think, I think they were, I think there was a walk-off rouge. Wasn't there last year?

I seemed to remember a missed field goal. They wanted that out of the game. Because that was embarrassing. They found that, I think they found that embarrassing because that would sometimes go viral in the States. There was enough people yesterday. The Saskatchewan Rough Riders who scored only four rouges all last season, Jack. So there were a lot of people yesterday saying that the league's biggest fear is that one

day a gray cup will be decided on a missed field goal. and the damage that that would do to the shield and the brand and everything else and that they said fine you know it's amazing that it hasn't happened yet but eventually it will because like everything the odds are just eventually that will happen and it will pop

and it will damage the league so they cut that out at the knees by modifying the Rouge okay we're up against it for time we're gonna I want the I want the Grey Cup to end now on a missed field goal with the guy with the receiver tackled in the end zone just trying to get out of it I actually think that would be awesome

Very unlikely considering it's now a shorter end zone, but I think that would be awesome. Also, the teams aren't on the same sidelines anymore, which, I mean, I don't even, I couldn't believe that they hadn't thought of like, should we change this earlier? So thank God they got rid of that. Very small minor rule, but it's something that kind of set, like it suggests that it's been a long time since they've changed anything in this league, anything. Yeah. And there is an element of what Addox talking about. Like, if you don't change and you don't adapt, you do die. You need to look at the trends and where things are going.

and at least try to make things different. But I also understand the hardcore CFL fan and them going like, is this the start? What was the word that was getting thrown around? The Americanization of the CFL. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough. Our game must continue to evolve and modernize

for our players, our fans, and our partners. partners. Today, we announced a significant step towards achieving our vision for the future of the CFL. 732 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody, Halford Brough, Sportsnet, 650. Halford and Brub in the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Only a licensed insolvency trustee can cut your debt by up to 80% with no upfront fees. To learn how, visit Sands-Trustee.com. We are in our two of the program. We're at the midway point of the show. That voice you just heard, that of CFL Commissioner Stuart Johnson.

Stuart Johnson's going to join us in just a moment here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Hour 2 of this program is bratsy by Jason hominock at Jason.morgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason. To the Power West Industries hotline we go, our next guest is the commissioner of the Canadian Football League. Stuart Johnson here, now live on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Good morning, Stuart. How are you? Good morning. I'm doing great. Thanks. How are you?

We're good. Thank you for taking the time to do this. Let's start with the big picture question about the changes announced yesterday to the Canadian Football League. What were the main ideas, Stuart, behind these changes? Well, I think we were looking to really focus on the entertainment value of our game. We've got such a fabulous game. The CFL brand of football is amazing. And we're having a wonderful season. scoring is up, and we've had some outstanding finishes.

And for me, when things are going well, is exactly when you think, how can we expose this even more? And so the spark really came from, I would say, the one change that really sparked almost all of them was moving the uprights to the back of the end zone. And what that will do to allow, A, a better presentation of our game by taking an obstruction out of the middle of our most important part of the field, but also we think encourage a lot more throwing across the middle because all our data

shows us that 80% of all passes into the end zone are to the sides, and only 20% are over the middle. And we want to encourage more opportunity to score touchdowns. Have you reached out to Nathan Rourke at all? I'm curious what you thought about his comments yesterday. And I guess the other question that you can touch on, if you would, is why didn't you consult the players with this stuff?

Well, I'll start by saying Nathan Rourke is a top superstar in our league and an important voice in our league. And on a personal note, you know, well before I came into this position,

I was just a fan. I was a fan his first time around in the league, and when he went down south, I was almost obsessed with cheering him on from afar, hoping he'd get that opportunity to shine like I was absolutely certain he would. And then, of course, I certainly love having him back in the league and having a historic season like he is. So it's important for me to really reach out to Nathan because I think we should, we should chat like he was responding in the moment he is absolutely entitled to his opinion um i think some of the things may you know maybe there's some misunderstandings i do wonder

you know some of the reaction that seems to be focused on hey is this a step towards americanizing our game and um i got to say i was taken a little aback by that and and in second thought i guess i shouldn't have been but the reason i was taken aback is because nothing could have been further from our thoughts as we worked through this. We actually don't think there's anything here that points to an Americanization of our game. The only, only thing that's the same is uprights at the back. And that's it. Our field will be 33% bigger than an NFL-sized.

And all those amazing rules that keep our, that are definers, I would think of our game, number of downs, width of the field, 12 players, motion, yard off the ball. All of that's there. So I was taken aback and maybe part of that was kind of leaking into some thought process with Nathan just in a first reaction. And, you know, I also would say that I get it. As someone who's been a fan of this league before he was commissioner of this league, I was also one of those fans who put my shoulders back and defended the CFL on any type of comparison against the NFL and that sort of thing. And so I get it.

We all have, I think, a little bit of history in that, all of us who've been fans of the league. And I think that bubbled up a little bit. So why weren't the players consulted on these rule changes and who was consulted? well we had a team of a number of football operations experts people who've been around involved with this league for an awful long time we had stats we had data analytics we had communications and PR and we had some some other operations folks from the team that they're more involved in scheduling and such so it was a tight group but it was all the right expertise to work through the proposals and understand what it is our recommendations would be.

And you can imagine that on topics like this, we've seen the reaction in the last 48 hours. They're pretty sensitive. They're pretty sensational. And when you expand the circle too large, obviously there's more chance for just it to get out. And a lot of discussion that happens before you've even come to what you're recommending, let alone a decision. So we felt very strongly. We had the right minds in the room,

working through it, doing the analysis, all the background work, and then ultimately recommending it to our board of governors and the board unanimously approved these changes with absolute enthusiasm. I think there's a lot of skepticism

about intentions and whether that, That's fair or not to you. I'm not really here to say, but I can tell you in our text inbox, there's a lot of people that are worried that this league is at some point not going to be uniquely Canadian. And I'm just wondering if you could speak a little bit more about that and maybe touch on the partnership between MLSC and the Buffalo Bills that came out a couple of weeks ago. and maybe just a little bit more on MLSC because I think there's maybe there's some paranoia

about that group because, you know, people hear that they want the NFL at MLSC, they've already got the NBA, the NHL, etc. I know I'm throwing a lot at you here, but I'm sure it's nothing you can't handle. Well, thank you. And no problem. I'll try, if I miss any pieces,

let me just point me back to them, but I'll try and take those one at a time. First off, I get it. You said skepticism. You also said, you know, something along the lines of fear. I think there is some fear. And I get it. I understand it.

I hope I can reassure your listeners and CFL fans across the country that not, there were no other rules that were under consideration as we worked through this. This was it. This is the package. We are super excited about other things we're working on. Some of them are little, you know, grind away bit by bit ideas. Some are a little bit larger, but they aren't about the rules. And there is not 1% of my brain that is looking at other rules or affecting what I think is the Canadian uniqueness of our game.

That's it. This is it. It's all we were considering and we're moving forward. We hope we've got lots of excitement. writing announcements coming, but they aren't about that. That is not our focus. It's not in anyone's intention. And so I'll leave it at that.

And then MLSC's announcement with the bills was absolutely, of course, unrelated to us. Timing was close, but unrelated. And I think MLSC's done a great job in describing that relationship. The Buffalo Bills, through NFL policy, have the GTA, the Greater Toronto area, as an international market that they are encouraged to market too. And they're excited by that. And there's nothing to stop the Buffalo Bills from coming into Toronto and a market that's significantly bigger than Buffalo and looking to grow the game of football and grow fandom for the Buffalo bills. And I think MLSC has done an outs

any job in describing, hey, the Buffalo Bills are coming in to market football. Why not do it together instead of perhaps in a competitive fashion? So, you know, now it's bills and Argos marketing clinics to youth in Toronto. And frankly, I'm so interested in growing the game of football at the youth level and so excited about the growth and explosion of popularity of flag football. The more partners we have focused on that, the better. I just want as many footballs in the hands of young people because they will fall in love with the sport,

and then they will fall in love with CFL. We're speaking to CFL Commissioner Stuart Johnson here on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Stuart, you mentioned timing there. I am curious, why did you guys decide at the CFL that the timing to do this announcement was now, as in yesterday, or a month away from the end of the regular season. And there's players and coaches that are focused right now on the playoffs,

which will start on November 1st and jockeying for those playoffs. Why did you guys decide the timing was right for now to make this announcement? We were working on this for, we've been working on this for a number of months. And we got it in front of the board. The board approved it unanimously. And at some point, you would decide why. would we sit on it? This is a decision that has been made. It's been well thought through. It's been measured and thoughtful. We're excited, extremely excited about where it can go.

And we have some major infrastructure projects in front of us as we consider moving goalposts, building footings, working with our turf, giving a year and a half's notice to start working on that seemed appropriate. It also allows amateur football. a year and a half to think about what it is that we've done at the professional level and whether it's something they want to emulate at the amateur level. And we felt that was a reasonable time to give with a year and a half before we start. So a number of reasons, and frankly, we're working on a lot of things at the league office. And this isn't the last you're going to hear from us.

It is we are here to elevate and expose our game and enshrine the CFL as a major league professional. national sports property in North America. And that's what we're going for. And that's what you're going to hear from us. I'm curious, in your listening tour, how do you get more younger fans of the game? Because there's a demographics challenge there. And the NFL is a big monster. And, you know, there's a lot of young kids who like the NFL,

but they don't necessarily follow the CFL in Canada. I'm sure these rule changes are part of it, but there's got to be more, right? There's no one single answer to that question. These rule changes are intended to elevate the entertainment value of the CFL. We think more touchdowns are going to be scored, or they're going to be scored on an unobstructed viewpoint, and the touchdowns are some of our greatest highlights

or interceptions in the end zone are some of our greatest highlights to share through social and push out and gain recognition and win the fight in the attention economy. So we think that's going to be a help, but certainly not the full and complete answer. It's multi-part.

It is how are we positioning our league from a marketing promotion standpoint? How are we working on our in-stadium experience? What is the tailgating that's being put in place in and around our stadiums. What areas are we, how are we growing the game of football with the youth so that when they get to learn the game, play the game and fall in love with the game, that will translate them wanting to watch and come to a game.

It's all of those things together. There's no one answer. This is a big job in front of us. And I'm incredibly excited because we have the nucleus to win this. It's called the Canadian Football League. This is, we have it. We just, you know, we got to take all those steps and execute well to get us there. Keith Pelley was kind of hinting on this, hinting at this idea on a radio program yesterday.

And he was talking about how there's kind of three buckets of fans. There's the hardcore fans. There's the bandwagon jumpers. And then there's the people that go to the games just to be seen because it's the cool thing to do. There are some markets in the CFL where the CFL is a cool thing, but I know it's not in BC and it's not in Toronto. And for those people that are listening and saying, hey, I think it's cool. I think I'm cool. The definition of the cool factor would be when the Canucks are good and people go just to be because it's like the cool thing to do and you want to be seen at these

games and it's a status thing. How can you get the CFL to that point? is that something that you focus on? Well, I don't know if I'm focused very specifically on status seekers who would find it just a cool to be seen. I certainly want everyone to think our sport is cool. I do. And I think there are definitely significant number of fans in both of those markets who'd say,

hey, we feel like we're a cool set and we do love the game and we have a great time at the stadium. When I think about Vancouver and what Amar has done there with Dwayne, I mean, I'm so impressed the investment they put in.

They have created a really nice experience outside. The stadium feels great when you're there. So look, I think it's one step at a time, but I really like the steps that have been taken. Yeah, no, Amar Doman, for the record, has done an unbelievable job. The Snoop Dog concert was a lot of, fun and one of the funniest things I've ever seen also.

And he's got a great arm. I couldn't believe in throwing those football. He's a football guy. He's a football guy. Yeah, he threw to the upper deck. That was pretty impressive. It was. Why were you unwilling to guarantee that the CFL will never go to four downs? Those are absolute terms, right? Guarantee and never. I just don't speak that way. But what I can say is that I and we have no intention of even thinking about that,

let alone enacting anything on that. So it is, it is, I just, if I could reassure everyone that these changes were simply making the canvas that we play on, which is 33% bigger than an NFL-sized field, that much more open for the great CFL game that we have, that's what we are aiming to achieve and we're excited and think that's what we will achieve. It's taking our CFL game that is so entertaining and allowing it to be exposed in an even cooler fashion.

And then from there, again, I'm working on other parts of the business. So I don't know anyone who can say absolutely. in this world in any industry do I think it's going to happen absolutely not I don't see that happening I just don't speak in absolutes are you and the board of governor

surprised by the response good bad and otherwise that you've gotten or was this pretty much what you expected I think this is probably what we expected we expected you know a number of folks who kind of watch that video we put out and said oh yeah that seems logical that's you know there's a lot

a common sense there. And then a lot of folks who struggle, who just struggle with the concepts or didn't like them, which is their opinion. And that's fine. What we tried to do in my words, but who cares about listening to me. But if you watch that four-minute video, we really try to walk through the logic and the background that led to the decisions and hope that people can recognize that's just what it was and change you know change there's no human being that's comfortable to change not maybe babies with a wet diaper they like change yeah but outside of that nobody so i i we i totally get you know it's going to take some time to digest and i'm here to talk to you and talk to any fans and talk about exactly what i've said today and what i said

yesterday and what that video says is this is about the entertainment value of the game. Stuart, this was great. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this today. We really appreciate I know it's been a busy last 48 hours and it sounds like there's going to be some busy hours ahead as well. So the next time you have a major announcement

feel free to do it on our show. We're always here. Sounds good. We'll do. Thanks. Appreciate it. That's Stuart Johnson, Commissioner of the Canadian Football League here on the Halford-imbrough show on SportsNet 650. So I actually cut it a little bit short because we may as well address a couple things here. One, I do not

think in our time at SportsNet 650, not a CFL rights holder, not a station or an entity that talks about the Canadian Football League a lot. I don't think we've ever spoken as much CFL in a singular show before, and we have never, I can guarantee it, received as much feedback as we have this morning.

The Dunbar Lumber text message in basket at 650, 650 is jammed, loaded, continual waterfall of text coming in about these rule changes. On one hand, I say, that amazing for the league. In the no bad publicity vein, this conversation has absolutely helped and amplified the Canadian Football League. That being said, there are a lot of angry people.

There are a lot of angry people. I think it's, I think a lot of it is misguided. I think a lot of you out there right now with the geopolitical climate and your concerns and fears and worries about being Americanized have really projected that onto this. Now, maybe we're just being naive. Maybe I think that this really is about the entertainment value of the league and trying to make the on-field product better. And it's not the first step down a slippery slope of, well, now we're the NFL junior. I believe that. But there's a ton of skepticism right now out there that that's what's happening. Okay. So those of you that have been listening to this show for a while know that we're not a show that just agrees with authority, agrees with commissioners just because they're the commissioner. the previous CFL Commissioner, I had some interviews that were a little testy with, and I wasn't afraid to tell him that I don't agree with his ideas. So I just wanted to throw that out there because, you know,

I do think about these things and I do have opinions on these things, and I'm not afraid to share my opinion just because someone disagrees with me if they're in a position of power. I'm okay with these changes. I really don't see this as a slippery slope situation. Why do you hate Canada? Where you're getting closer to the American game or trying to become the American game.

I think that the commissioner has a very strong broadcast background and a lot of these people in broadcasting see the game very, you know, It's all visuals, right? And I think, for example, the field goals being in the end zone. For a broadcaster, it's a bit of an, it's a bit of an eyesore to have that. And he's talking about, like, you know, even being in the stadium. And there are sometimes where you have to kind of like crane your neck around the goalposts

in order to see the play. He doesn't want that. I think this is about making it cleaner for the broadcast. and not like, hey, why does that end zone look different than the other end zone? And like that doesn't look good. Let me jump in here.

Okay. So there was a play in BC this year that went viral. It was the Robert Carter Jr. pick against the Thai cats, right? Remember that one? The amazing one-handed grab that he made in the end zone?

I have talked to enough people and actually they referenced this in the rule change layout yesterday. There are a lot of people that said the league was furious because there were multiple camera angles where the catch of the year was impeded by the goalposts. And if you look at the stills that they put out at CFL.ca. It's very interesting.

There's this amazing play that you should be splashing over every platform, web, social, or otherwise. And the big, dumb goalposts in front of it. And several camera angles were impeded by the goalposts. that is folks the most clear cut straightforward example of what he's talking about moving an impediment an impediment whatever you want to call it but also with real time examples and this isn't just something that they dreamed up and they can't point like part of the ambrose experience was pointing to a bunch of pie in the sky ideas that were never based in reality yes this is very much like this was a play that you guys in bc will remember Yeah. And it's the kind of play that gets you, and I, whether you think this is important or not, but gets you on ESPN or on Sunday night football or look what's happening. Or on sports net. Or whatever. You're listening to the best of Halford and Brough.