Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Blue Jays Are Having A Season To Remember

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

In hour two, Mike Halford & guest host Jamie Dodd chat with the Toronto Sun's Rob Longley (1:19) about the smoking Blue Jays, who are currently among the top teams in the entire MLB, plus they discuss the sputtering BC Lions, as 3 Down Nation's JC Abbott (24:37) joins the show.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Music 7.02 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough with Jamie Dodd on Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough for the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal can get you on the road to being debt free in just two weeks. Visit them online at Sands-steve.com for more. We are now in hour two of the program. Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun is going to join us for some Jay's talk. Headed to the big series tonight, Jay's Yankees from Toronto kicks off in just a few hours time. Our two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominuk at jason.mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to

find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Sorfi, what are you waiting for? To the Power West industry's hotline we go as mentioned from the Toronto Sun. Rob Longley here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Rob, how are you? Pretty good guys. It's an exciting time around the city right now with this baseball team doing some fun things.

I was gonna say, like, so I was scrolling through your most recent articles at the Sun. You're talking about like roaring, roaring ratings for Sportsnet. Way to go, Sportsnet. Talking about, you know, the fans in attendance, the attendance numbers are up, the viewership numbers are up,

the teams won 10 straight at home. We played a Vladdy Guerrero clip in the previous segment talking about we're going to bring the World Series back to Toronto. The energy and the excitement level are high. What's it been like actually, you've been on the beat for a while, but you know, you know, realizing that the Jays are serious about contending for the first time in over a decade. So this, my first year on the beat was 2017. So I saw some of the 2015 and 2016 season, which was pretty electric, but I wasn't around, you know, throughout the summers, each of those years.

Right. And you know, since that time, this is by far the most exciting, I think. There certainly was a taste of it in 2021 once they got back here from COVID, but the place wasn't full. Made the playoffs in 2022 and 2023. But at that point, those teams were kind of like sneaking the playoff

kind of wild card teams. But for the first time since, you know, 2016, the city is really abuzz with what's happening here. And I think it's because, um, all of a sudden they're not playing like a team that's going to squeak in the playoffs in a wild card spot. They're playing like a team that not only could win the division, they could be the top seed in the American league. They're just a game and a half, uh, behind the Tigers.

They have the second best record in the American league right now. And the fourth best record in all of the majors, which is crazy. If we were talking about this as a possibility a month ago, we would have laughed at it. But what is also happening is they're finding all kinds of crazy ways to win games with the bottom of the order contributing. Guys that were basically destined to be Buffalo Bisons most of the year contributing as much as guys like Viagra O'Jr. and Beau Bichette. Um, but they're winning over the fan base because of that.

This, this team is, is, uh, exciting to embrace. Um, you know, we spent so much of 2023 and 2024 with a team that emphasized defense first, which is boring baseball. You shouldn't aspire to win two to one every night. And then they bought them out last year and finished in last place. And all of a sudden this turnaround, you get the feeling being around the team that something special is happening. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. And as you said, the turnaround from last year, but even just from kind of the early stages of this year, not that they were terrible, but it didn't look like they had

this type of run in them. And it really has been powered by what they've been able to do at home. 10 wins in a row now, which began with that sweep of the Yankees before the All-Star break. And we heard Vlade on the field last night referencing, or yesterday afternoon, I should say, referencing kind of the love from the fans and all of that.

What is going on with the 10 games in a row at home? Is it as simple as, yeah, it's home field advantage and their fans are into it. Why have they been able to kind of capture that magic playing at home specifically? They're probably a confluence of things. Certainly those two factors, um, you know, early in the season, the sense was that it was going to be a bit of a wait and see season for fans. The ticket sales

were going into the season were lower than they had been the last couple of seasons. But once the team, you know, caught fire in May, the place has been mostly full almost every night. There's 30,000 plus at least and then most nights 40,000 and I think we're gonna see that pretty much the rest of the way because people want to be a part of what's going on. Great place to play in the summertime when the roof is open. The renovations have made it more fan friendly and as I alluded to earlier the fan base is I think that they're getting excited at the style of baseball that's

being played. And it's reminiscent of those years of 2015 and 2016 when it was Jose Bautista and Josh Donaldson and Russell Martin and guys like that doing it. These guys are playing with a lot of fun and a lot of energy and a lot of resiliency. So it's easy to get behind that kind of effort. And I think physically, one of the untold things about the renovations at the Roger Centre is what they've done on the player side and on the player performance side. There's a lot of amenities in what is the biggest clubhouse in the major leagues right now. It basically takes, it seems like it takes up a third of the basement of the Roger Center. And they've got all the highest end and highest tech hitting type machines in there. They've got hot pools, cold pools, they've got restrooms, they've got all kinds of things.

And it's basically a barber shop. The guys have their own barber shop and a barber there every day. It's like, there's a real comfort level there. And a lot of the amenities, not just in terms of being, working in a luxurious environment, but in sort of enhancing their performance environment.

And I think we're starting to see some of that stuff pay off. And some of the players have alluded to it, that the prep work that they can do at the Roger Centre is dramatically different than what they can do in basically all of the visiting parks that they go to and and they're taking advantage of that and they're riding the momentum up a little bit. We're speaking to Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun here on the Haliford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. I don't want to make it about the Leafs, but I do have to ask, is there a sense in the market that this team and the way that they're playing baseball and the way that they're winning games,

especially at home, was something that the market was almost kind of crying out for given how poorly the Leafs season ended. The visceral reaction in the game seven loss to Florida with the jerseys being thrown on the ice, the distaste that a lot of had people had left in their mouths and then the Marner Exodus as well. It feels like this was almost like the Jays are a perfect elixir for a sports market that was, it was pretty down on the biggest team in town for a while. Yeah, I think, I think there's, there's some fairness to that, to that sense, because, you know, people are sort of fed up fed up with how things have been going with

the Maple Leafs. Expectations were modest at best going into this season after 74 wins in bottom of the division last year, but it really turned into a perfect confluence of things because when the Jays started their hot streak was basically June 30th. You know, in my mind, that was the sort of the turning point when they swept the Yankees the previous time they were here in that four game series. So you had that they won the first game on the 30th. The second game was July 1st, which was it was always a huge celebration and a great day to be in that ballpark. It really is. You really feel proud to be a Canadian and the Blue

Jays do a wonderful job setting it up. Finish off that series the next two days, so July 2nd and July 3rd, and by that time the whole Maple Leaf mess is behind you, right? Marner's gone, we knew it was happening anyway, but he's gone. Free agency is basically over. And now all of a sudden you turn your attention to the Blue Jays and look, they're in first place in the American League East. They just swept the New York Yankees. They're a lot of fun to watch and through the entire month of July to this point that hasn't abated. People didn't want the All-Star break to come because they had just finished off that 10 game winning streak and dropped three or four before the all-star break and then they bounce right back with yet another home sweep, the third consecutive

series that they've swept at home. So I think it's going to just continue to grow throughout the summer. You know, this is a team, at some point they're going to have a bit of a losing streak, but the resiliency as I mentioned and the resolve that they've shown, I don't expect this to be the type of team that goes on a eight or nine game losing streak. They seem to be able to rebound to some issues still. I mean, I think they have to do some work

at the trade deadline, but the momentum that they're riding now and catching the fan base at the exact right moment when they could wash away whatever they were feeling about the Maple Leafs has certainly played into all of it. What can you say about the impact that Addison Barger has made on this team and this franchise really this season?

It's been huge, what he's done. I mean, there's people in the organization on the development side that believed he was capable of this kind of stuff. And they certainly, you know, had big plans for him. Always been a strong guy, always been a power type hitter. But sometimes it takes a little bit longer for some dudes. He was up last year and could not handle major league pitching, whether it was the environment,

whether it was the type of pitching, the way he was being pitched or whatever it was. He didn't last very long and was sent back to Buffalo. But sometimes these guys, when they get a a second shot they're better prepared for it. There's definitely a comfort level with Addison Barger and the new hitting coach David Popkins and I think that's played into it and then once he's had a little bit of success it's you know he too is riding that momentum and boy oh boy did they ever need it because you know the guy who was brought in to hit home runs has done nothing this year, still on the injured list. But of course,

is Anthony Santander. People forget about him almost because he hasn't played in so long. But Addison Barger has provided that power and has done so from the left side and is playing with more confidence every outing. And not only is he hitting and out guys, like he seems to have a sense of being able to hit big home runs at big points in ball games. And that's kind of like a bit of that clutch gene is kind of what you need. And a little bit like found money, but a guy that they had hoped would be this type of player. And he certainly turned into a guy that you had hoped would be this type of player and he certainly he certainly turned into a guy that That you have to have in the lineup every single night

Well and another impressive thing is he's not just doing it at the plate But he's more of an holding his own at third base a pretty difficult position, right? you put it all together as a still a young player a rookie coming up and thriving at the plate and his second opportunity while also playing exceptional defense and and thriving at the plate and his second opportunity while also playing exceptional defense. And it's almost like if you were to draw up in a lab, the player, the J is needed to insert into the lineup, right? This is kind of what it would look like. Lefty power bat, who's also getting it done in the field.

Yeah, for sure. And then they love guys that, uh, they've always loved guys that can this management group that can be, that have versatility. And you know, we, we've seen him play some amazing defense at the hot corner there at third base with the great range he has in the outstanding arm. Then you throw him out in right field and watch him gun down runners at home plate with that arm. Yeah, he's bordering on elite defender and a huge contributor at the plate. And as I said, found money.

Like they needed a guy. I was always of the opinion that even if they had Anthony Santander performing and contributing offensively, they were still one bat shy of being, being a good offense and he's, he's filled that void and more. And I suppose, um, and then George Springer, right? If it weren't for those two guys, you have to wonder where this offense would be at this point. Uh, Vladdy hits a home run yesterday in the game in the win against the giants. And one of the remarkable parts of this run is we're still waiting to see the best

from Vladdy at the plate. What has been preventing him from getting to the absolute peaks we know he can get to? And do you see signs that maybe, uh maybe he can get on a real tear and start hitting with more power consistently here coming up down the stretch? Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I'm by no means a technical expert in terms of what's going good or going bad with a, with a, with a swing, but it's, it's been clear to me and to just about anybody who's being honest about it,

that the period there has been something off with him, whether it's been clear to me and to just about anybody who's being honest about it that there has been something wrong with him, whether it's just some timing, whether there's a hitch in his swing or whatever it might be. The Jays manager John Schneider has said repeatedly that he's just going to catch fire one of these days. And I suppose what else are you going to say as a manager? You hope and pray that it's going to happen. And then you'll hear others say that, well, you know, he's having a fine season and he still hits the ball hard and he still gets on base a lot. But that's

not why they paid the dude 500 million. You know, everybody knows what, what the, the Vlad Grorod Jr. that can be a game changer is the guy who, who did what he did yesterday and hits a 430 foot home run over the wall in center field. There was no doubt, right? When it left his bat, there was no doubt. And when you watched the slow motion replays on Sportsnet, it looked like the dream technical swing.

So it's in there and you see it some days in batting practice, but that's the Vlad Guerrero Jr. that they're going to need down the stretch. And if he were to catch fire, historically in his career, he's still young, of course, but he has tended to be better in the second half of the season. And boy, oh boy, if they can get a little bit more, if that was a taste of what's to come, that homer that he hit yesterday, because to me, that was a vintage Vlad Guerrero Jr. homer. If they can get more of that then all of a sudden you know this team is going to be even scarier than they are right now and I just I just sent in a column that'll be up on TorontoSign.com soon basically saying it's time

for this team to aspire to more than than winning the American League East. They've got a three game lead on the Yankees right now but as as I mentioned earlier, they're right behind the Tigers. And you get the number one or the number two seed, then you avoid the wild card round. And the wild card round has not been kind to the Blue Jays. So if they were able to secure the luxury of avoiding that and a home field advantage, it would be huge. And it certainly gives them something to play for.

And Vlad Grero Jr. is the guy that can get them to that place. Well, and speaking of aiming higher on the broadcast yesterday in the post-game interview, Vlad says, you know, we're working hard to bring the World Series back to Toronto. You know, I know it's the post-game walk off on the on TV, right? So it's easy to kind of drop those sorts of goals and aspirations in that environment. But what do you think about Vlad? He coming out right, right out and saying it and yeah, we want our goal isn't just to sneak into the playoffs. We want to bring the world series back to Toronto.

Yeah, I give him credit for that. He's, he's, he said that more than once. He even said it in spring training and I, you know, why not be aspirational like that? Why not? Why not aim high? Why not aim for higher than just sneaking into the playoffs or playing meaningful September baseball as they say, I get a lot of credit. I mean, he's, um, first of all, he's talking more in English, which is, which is great. He's, I think he's embracing his role as a team leader as he, as he grows and matures a little bit and certainly the highest paid athlete on the team. But yeah, why not, why not set the tone? Why not say those kinds of things? Why say that we're just happy with winning

another series? This is just another step along the way. And you know what? If you zoom out to the bigger picture, Vlad isn't the only one saying this. These guys are turning into a really good group in flushing the day before. They're very good on focusing on the task at hand, whether they won or whether they lost the previous night. And in a 162 game season, that's so invaluable to be able to have that mindset because it is a grind mentally and it is a grind physically and if you get too caught up in the results of a day or a week you can drive yourself crazy and it can be counterproductive. So if you keep keep in mind that the bigger goal and you know

whenever Vlad says the goal is to win the World Series he also says it's you know he invariably will say, coming here every day and doing our job will be what gets us to that point. So credit to him for for saying that. And it's, it's, it's also reflective of how much of a leader he's become on this team as he, as he matures and grows into that role. You mentioned work to do still for the front office, a head of the trade deadline. What are the key areas that they need to improve? Well, it's, you know, there are some, there are some concerns, I think. I think you have to get another starting pitcher, whether it be a game changing type starting pitcher or not, you know, credit to Eric Lauer.

I don't know where this team would be without Eric Lauer, the guy who's come in and all of a sudden pitching like an ace, a guy who was, you know, was a non-roster player in spring training has saved this rotation through the struggles of Bowden Francis and the injury to Max Scherzer. You know, I would think you would want to at least get some depth starting, one arm and, you know, maybe even a hugely impactful arm because the way I try to explain it to people who ask is my concern about the rotation. And it's a good veteran rotation is that I don't know who if you have that prototypical game one starter in a playoff series, you know, the guy who can you can put on the mound for game one and game five of a five game series and and essentially expected to be, you know, a win. So they need a guy and maybe not sure. You know, sure, there could be that guy if he continues along the path that he's been on. But at least you got to get a depth starter because you need another arm down the stretch.

And I'm a little concerned about the bullpen. I think you need another impact arm in there. I'm not that worried about Jeff Hoffman. I know he had a bit of a lull there earlier in the season where he struggled a little bit, but he seems to be back on his game. But I think you need another high impact, high leverage arm. And, you know, Jimmy Garcia was that guy at the start of the season, but he's on the injured list and now they're talking about elbow stuff.

And, you know, he's a guy who was twice on the injured list last year and he's 34 years old, I believe. So as good as he is when he's on, you need another, you need at least one more impact arm in the back end of a bullpen. When it comes to the playoffs, you have to have guys who can take the ball from the starter

and shut it down from the six-fitting on. Right now, they might have enough guys to handle two of that. I think they need at least one more impact bullpen arm. Maybe another bat, but the offense has been humming along pretty nicely and soon they're gonna get Dalton Varsho back and eventually perhaps Anthony Santander. So my focus would be on the pitching side. It is the Jays, the Yankees,

a 407 first pitch, R-time massive series. I know it's only July 21st, but there's a huge series for the AL East and the AL picture overall. Rob thanks for taking the time to do this today bud we really appreciate it. Enjoy this upcoming three game set against the Yankees it should be a lot of fun. Yeah it's gonna be pretty electric down at the ballpark tonight I'm looking forward to it. Thanks guys. Thank you that's Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun here on the Haliford and Bruff show featuring Jamie Dodd on Sportsnet 650.

It's my time now to beg. Yes beg. I didn't even ask. Just straight begging. We need more of what we learn. As a matter of fact, we need some what we learn. We don't have a lot right now. The Dunbar Lumber Text Message in Basket 650 650.

Get ahold of us here. Tell us what you learned over the last 72 hours in sports. Hashtag it WWL and we're going to do them all at 8.30. It's your chance to be on the radio. No shortage of things to weigh in on. It's a Monday. You can talk about what the white caps did over the weekend. You can talk about the golf with Scotty Scheffler winning at Royal Port Rush in Northern Ireland.

You can talk about the Jays. You could even talk about the BC Lions. We're going to do that next. JC Abbott from Three Down Nation is going to join us to talk about a Lions team that has been sputtering, I would say, to start the season three and four through seven games, a disappointing loss on the weekend at home. The watermelon smash to Saskatchewan, a game in which the final score probably wasn't indicative of how far apart the two teams were, especially early.

Another slow start for the Lions wasn't a of how far apart the two teams were, especially early. Another slow start for the lions. Wasn't a great game by anyone involved in the BC side of things. Nathan Roark, again, another one where the statistics at the end of the game suggested a good performance, but he and countless others that were watching his performance were critical of what he brought to the table. So we'll talk to JC Abbott about that. Coming up on the other side of the break at 730. At 8 o'clock, before we do what we learn, Dave Softy-Moller, one of our favorites here,

always energetic, always fun, from KJR Sports Radio in Seattle is going to join us. We're going to talk with Mariners in the summer of Cal Raleigh. We're going to talk about what's going on with NBA expansion, how frustrated Seattle is, about how long and drawn out this process has been. Seahawks training camp starts this week as well. So we're going to go down to Seattle at eight.

JC Abbott though, coming up on the other side. And before we go to break, I do need to tell you about Jan Pro from waiting rooms to exam rooms and everything in between. Jan Pro keeps workplaces tidy, clean and disinfected for a free quote. Visit them online at JanPro.ca. Uh, JC Abbott joining us next for some BC Lions talk. You're listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. 7.31 on a Monday. Very brooding intro music there. I'm diggin this cool music

You are listening to the howford and bruff show it's haunted I said it feels like a Michael Mann movie. Yeah, I can see this in heat or something Yeah, I could see this. Yeah. I don't know how how forgets the haunted house, but okay Yeah, I could see this. Yeah. I don't know how I don't know how forgets the haunted house, but okay I didn't know it was the it was the the saw the sounds coming back from break not so much the music Okay, yeah, the Lions lost. I don't want to play like happy go lucky cheerful. Let's talk to JC Lines got blown out. Yeah 732 now in the morning you are listening to the health and breath show on sports net 650 half and in the morning. You are listening to the Haliford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. Haliford and Bruff in the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help. With over 3,000 five-star reviews, visit them online

at Sands-Trustee.com. As mentioned, we are in hour two of the program with the midway point of the show. Hour two is brought to you by Jason Hominuk at Jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason.mortgage. To the phone lines we go, the Power West Industries hotline, JC Abbott from Three Down Nation here on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning JC, how are you? I'm doing well guys.

I do want to start on the defensive side of football with the B.C. Lions after a 33 to 27 loss to Saskatchewan. We'll get into everything they did or didn't do on offense with Nathan Rourke in a minute. But you brought this up in your piece in three down nation. Another less than stellar effort from the defense. And it's interesting because in, you know, listening to the postgame remarks, the head coach, Buck Pierce, gave credit to Saskatchewan. The quarterback, Nathan Rourke, gave credit to Saskatchewan. The quarterback, Nathan Rohr, gave credit to Saskatchewan. The quarterback, Robert Carter Jr., said, Uh-uh, I feel like this game was all on us.

We just beat ourselves yet again. Where do you fall on this one, J.C.? Yeah, I blame BC when it comes to the defensive performance, and that's not to take anything away from what Saskatchewan did. That's a good offense. Trevor Harris is a veteran quarterback but sort of the knock this season is, well can Trevor Harris at 39 years old hit the deep ball like he used to be able to?

Does he have that arm strength anymore? And BC said, well let's give him the to, and he did it all day, right? Four explosive plays, big busts in the secondary. That just can't be allowed to happen when you're trying to win football games. And unfortunately, they made those errors. Some of them were individual errors, some of those were communication errors, but the result was the same and they didn't make enough plays underneath. They didn't step up on second downs, the result was that they, uh, they couldn't get a stop. And we saw what that did for their record. Uh, so much obviously on both sides of the ball and football starts at the line of scrimmage and on defense for the lions. I mean, one,

the rough riders consistently having success on the ground. And also they're really unable to put any pressure on Trevor Harris And you know you can point fingers at the unit as a whole but at the defensive line up front For that in particular at this point of the year. These are kind of this is a consistent theme We're talking about with the BC Lions is that that inability to win in the trenches Do they have the personnel is it more of a personnel thing at this point than it is a coaching or a scheme thing or anything like that? I do think they have personnel when it comes to being able to get some pressure on the quarterback. I mean, they've had some bright spots in the last couple of games, guys like

Tomas, a little Lillie stepping up. I really like Jonah toavai as a player, but you just need better individual performances. I mean, Saskatchewan was starting a rookie left tackle in that game in Darius Washington, his first ever CFL game. And did we hear Matthew Betts' name called once, twice? I think I noticed him get pressure on the quarterback maybe once and that just can't happen when you've got that type of matchup in a game. Somebody has to step up and I know Trevor Harris again has a reputation for getting the ball out of his hand quickly but if he's going to stand back there and take those deep throws down the field then somebody's going to get in his face and the Lions simply didn't

do that. I know they've got help coming. Dwayne Hendricks has been their best interior pass rusher. He's been trending towards healthy for the last couple weeks. They're trying to find a way to get him on the roster. I think that has to happen going forward but it was just an occasion where you had to have the guys who were playing step up and they just didn't. We're speaking to JC Abbott from 3 Down Nation here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. On the offensive side of things, Nathan Rorick, again we kind of talked about this, there's a commonality between the final score maybe being closer than what the actual game was. And Rourke's line at the end of the game may be suggesting a better performance than what you saw. What did you see or didn't see from Rourke on Saturday

in the loss to Saskatchewan? Well, it was just an off performance from him, right off the bat, right? I think he was missing balls high consistently. When he tends to miss, he tends to miss high. But I don't know that I've seen him miss like that in quite some time he he couldn't connect on the deep ball I don't think he was seeing the field particularly well he was forcing things making mistakes that were uncharacteristic

for him you know you almost would have thought that it was a regression in the injury, but he was very clear after the game that he's really not feeling that anymore, that it's basically gone and that this was all on him. I think he saw something he wasn't expecting from Saskatchewan. It, you know, got in his head a little bit and he just wasn't mechanically sound in this football game. And the Lions suffered as a result. I mean, you heard what Rourke said post game. He was very clear.

He did give Saskatchewan credit, but he said I was just not good enough, right? And I think that's a fair assessment of that performance. Do you have a good handle on what this team is right now, like aside from a football team? Like there's three and four You know Jamie and I were talking about this earlier And I know you mentioned it in your pieces like it feels like they can beat the inferior teams But can't roll with the top teams. Is that just what you think they're gonna be throughout the remainder of this regular season?

Yeah, unless something changes, I think that's exactly What they're gonna be they can beat up on lesser opponents, but they're going to have a hard time beating the contenders, right? I don't think they're in the mix for that top three in the West division. I think they are probably a crossover team. Now that's not to say that they can't fix this and become contenders. I think back a couple years ago, guys, to the Montreal Alouettes when it seemed like they would beat any team that was under 500 and lose to any team that was over 500. And that was their knock throughout the season that you could predict the result of any game based on the opponent's record.

And then they went on a tear at the end and ultimately won the Grey Cup and proved everybody wrong. I think that's sort of the model for the BC Lions is if you've got to time it up so you're coming on late in the season. But right now, they just don't have the horses in my mind and the support around Nathan to beat good teams unless he puts up a superhuman performance. And as we just mentioned, he just didn't against Saskatchewan. What do you make of the job that Buck Pierce has done so far?

Again, early in his tenure, it's just seven games in as the head coach. We don't get an awful lot from him from a sort of explanatory sense. We were joking earlier in the show that he likes to reply with, I gotta go look at the tape whenever he's brought up something that didn't go right during the game. And there was a lot of that after the loss to Saskatchewan. So I'm curious to get your thoughts on the job

that Buck Pierce has done thus far. Yeah, from a reporter's perspective, it's remarkable. They went from Rick Campbell, who was one of the least interesting quotes in the league in terms of a head coach to Buck Pierce, who may be even quieter and softer spoken. I like Buck a lot and I hope he gets a lot of time here to figure this out. His offense, things he's done systematically there, I think has fixed a lot of the problems that the Lions had last season in terms of being too rigid. You see a lot more of the side to side, horizontal motion, better matchups. I think all of those are really positive.

better matchups. I think all of those are really positive. The question is going to be as this gets tougher, is Buck going to be the fiery guy that rallies around the locker room? The locker room rallies around him, right? Does he have that voice? Because I think those players have a tremendous amount of respect for what he accomplished as a player. You just pop on the highlights and you see how tough he was, but is he going to have the voice in the room to really drive his opponents home? That question remains unanswered. I'm not saying he doesn't because I think people are a lot different in private than they are in front of the media. But right now that would be

the one question and that was always going to be the question with Buck Pierce because he is that softer spoken guy. Is he going to be able to command that room when the going gets tough? That will be something that will be tested in his first year as head coach, I'm sure because the Lions are going to continue to have these sort of up and down struggles. And J.C. you mentioned, you know, we might already kind of have a handle on what to expect from this Lions team, right? Beating the teams below them in the standings, struggling to match up with the teams higher than the standings. And you said,

you know, unless something changes that, that could just be the identity. At this point of the season like what could change to to shift that a little bit and maybe make the season a little bit more unexpected realistically what are the factors that could be different from here on out for the lions that would maybe allow them to compete with the top teams in the league a little better well i think there's a couple of things a just, just improved performance, right? The flaws that we've seen on defense, if guys start to step up and stop making those fundamental mistakes then that cleans up a lot. But other than that, it's personnel. And I don't know

that there is a big time star out there that you can bring in and automatically fix things. But if the Lions continue to do a job, a good job of finding small pieces who get opportunities as injuries pop up, if they can utilize, you know, their ability to bring in some NFL cuts later in the, in the year, add some pieces there, then perhaps you can find the right combination to improve your performance. Does Josh Woods get better as the season goes on, as he gets more comfortable coming back from injury, and does that strengthen the linebacking core?

That's a possibility. You find the right combination on the defensive line. That's a possibility. Another player step up like Carter has in the secondary. I really like Cam Stone, who they brought in a couple of weeks ago and is currently on the practice roster. Do we see him at some point this season? And he surprises because he was one of the best graded corners in college football last season. There's all sorts of possibilities there. It's just finding the right combination and having those guys perform to what is expected within the structure of the defense because they've done it on occasion against lesser teams. This is a team that entered this week as the number one defense in the CFL on paper because while they played Edmonton twice and they played them strong both times, but they just have to

do it week in and week out against whatever opponent they face. How much attention are you paying to what Vernon Adams Jr. is doing in Calgary? Well, it's hard to miss it right? No I do want to make something really really clear because I got a lot of responses to my article this last week and there was a lot of people in the fan base who started making accusations that maybe the Lions made the wrong decision and triggering away VA. I didn't want to go there but yeah you go there. I don't think they did right that's the correct call by every metric in my mind. Roark has the highest ceiling of any quarterback in the league in my opinion. I think we've seen it this season he

had it off game let's not make too much out of it. He struggled against Saskatchewan. VA has struggled at times this season. His numbers are good, but not off the charts. He went the first three weeks of the year without throwing a single touchdown pass. So while he's been getting them wins consistently, I think VA just has a better team around him right now in Calgary. That's not taking anything away from him as a quarterback. I think he's top three in the league and he'll be in the MOP conversation

But long term and short term. I still think Nathan is the better option. So I think fans need to Understand the context of those decisions and look at it objectively rather than just looking at the wins and losses But it is gonna sting when those scampiers win and BA plays well and it's especially going to sting if it happens against the Lions. That's going to be a matchup to watch when those two teams play for the first time. I do always wonder what the multi-year, I don't want to call it sabbatical, but that journey through the NFL where the focus wasn't necessarily on playing and being a

gamer and winning. It was about trying to further one's career. I do always wonder how it altered the trajectory of Nathan Rourke's career because he's still relatively young. He's only 27. And it does feel at times it is like, it's always like maybe shaking off just a little bit

more rust and a little bit more rust. Granted the options around him, uh, haven't been, you know, great recently. I know Justin McKenna's game has kind of evaporated the last couple of weeks, but it's just interesting. I always wonder that they would do that gap almost, if you will, in terms of not playing meaningful games and going out and winning and doing the things that it takes to win, uh,

how it was altered the trajectory even to this day. I think it has an impact, right? You miss time, you miss reps, you miss opportunities. He felt that. I think the biggest thing is it's a bloke of the psyche. And you saw that last season where Mason was, I don't want to say a different guy, but certainly carrying a lot more weight on his shoulders than he was in the past. Uh, and I think he struggled with that. Now, those problems in large part are gone, right?

He has done a tremendous amount of work on himself this off season. There is nobody who works harder in the entire Canadian football league than Nathan does. And he's really bonded with his teammates. So all of those concerns you had for him coming back from the NFL, I've set those aside. Has there been some consistency issues? I think you can point to the game against Winnipeg maybe and this game and say well look those performances aren't particularly good

but at the same time the numbers aren't terrible. And I think you can see the possibility for correction in both of those matchups and just how talented Nathan can be in the other three games that he's played, where he's looked lights out and like the best quarterback in the league. So as long as he sticks to his fundamentals and he has the support around him, which I sometimes question with the Lions, if they've got enough offensive talent to support him truly, then he is going to be a guy who's worthy of the paycheck that he's receiving as the highest paid player in the CFL. JC, this was awesome. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this today. We appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the week. We will do this again next Monday.

Thanks guys. It was a pleasure as always. Yeah. Thank you. That's JC Abbott from three down nation here on the Haliford and brush show on sports net six 50. Should we drum up a big Vernon Adams versus Nathan Rourke controversy? Should that be the mission of the show this week? Slow time of the summer. Need something, need some sort of controversy to keep us going here. When in doubt, if there's no content,

you need to start the rumors yourself. Yeah. That's what you gotta do. I never, when it was, it was a Dave Dickinson and Casey Printers. Yeah. I'll never forget, we were at 1040 and like Pratt was like, this is just manna from heaven. This is great. There's a,

there's a handful of things that you can always go to in the sports doc radio handbook. It used to be the poll question is tonight a must win game. Yeah. It was always a good one. Yeah. Will the Canucks make the playoffs? We could talk about that every single day. So we're getting into that here. Goalie controversy was great because it would kind of dovetailed off a court. Goalie controversy and quarterback controversy, that's perfect because it sets itself up that you only get to choose one.

You can only play one, there's only one position and one spot for that position and it works. Now, I don't know if the Nathan Rourke, Vernon Adams Jr. one will have as much cache as the great quarterback battles of years past. But yeah, I did wanna make note, just I kinda wanted to like tiptoe into it because I know JC wrote about it and everything.

And last year was obviously super weird for the Lions because of the way that everything unfolded. Like in the aftermath, we heard more and more about how that room wasn't necessarily like fractured, like say the team Miller and team Patterson rift. But there was definitely guys that were like, well, wait a minute. Vernon Adams Jr. was playing at an incredibly high level. We were winning games. He got hurt and then he lost the job and you brought in Nathan and it didn't really like turn the

course for the team. It's not like Rourke came in and lit the world on fire offensively. And that whole thing lingered. And you know, by the end it was, we're flipping back and forth between quarterbacks, we're going to give VA a shot, we're going to give Nathan Rourke a shot and it ended up being kind of uncomfortable, which is the, the ethos and the genesis of that entire debate is that at a certain point you have to call it, right? You have to call it one way or the other. It's this guy or that guy.

And they made their decision by going with Rourke and then trading Vernon Adams Jr. to the, the Calgary Stampeders who are now like one of the best teams in the West. It's this guy or that guy and they made their decision by going with work and then trading Vernon Adams jr To the the Calgary Stampeders who are now like one of the best teams in the West now You said there was no rift that divided the locker room between Vernon Adams and Nathan Rourke, but what if there was? I would make for some good content right there. It definitely we had mojo on the show on a weekly basis last year and like he was He very candid in the way that he speaks about the team, even though he calls the games and everything.

And he said, like, it wasn't so much that, like, Camp A hated Camp E. But there were guys who were like, yeah, VA is our dude. Like, he was here for the first half of the year. We won a lot of games. He's a good quarterback. And now he's doing the business in Calgary. And it does feel like we're still waiting. the Lions are still waiting to kind of recapture the original Nathan Rourke magic in his return And okay, there's been flashes, especially this year, but there's all it's been mixed in with the major inconsistency. It's also tough because

It's not like he's the reason they're underperforming or they've been a little bit frustrating you can point to the two other issues Beyond him, but again, you also know you're not getting Week to week the kind of absolute max from work that you can get here's here's where I'm out with this and we know we just did a super deep CFL dive with JC Abbott and I'll take it more back to a sort of like Broader show of the whole thing. Um, I think that with the increase in terms of exposure and the fantastic work that Amara Doman has done as an owner and the revival and renaissance of the brand and the energy and the excitement, everyone's kind of waiting for the on-field product to catch up.

And getting Rorke back last year was a huge shot across the league that this team was willing to like smash the salary cap ceiling, to go out in the pursuit of excellence and to win. And it kind of becomes like the marketing and the concerts and all the initiatives, it all has to be backed up by a tangible, good on-field product. With Rourke, and I'll just say this cleanly

and as basically as possible, it feels like he should be the Superman, like when things are down, that he's gonna make plays on a regular basis and be that most outstanding player. And he can win games for you that you don't necessarily, or that you shouldn't necessarily win and that he's going to pull you into the battles that you're quite frankly losing

and we saw that in his first iteration as Alliance quarterback before he went on the NFL journey where he was making plays at a level that like quite frankly a lot of other quarterbacks in the CFL weren't making and he could go out and win you games single-handedly or do things that would And he could go out and win you games single-handedly or do things that would, you know, make you stand at attention or, you know, make you gasp because he was that good in that dynamic and that electric. And, you know, J.C.'s mentioned this a couple of times too.

When he came back from the NFL, it felt like he wanted to be more of a, like, prototypical quarterback, as opposed to a guy that runs around and maybe does the sandlot stuff and make plays and whatever. I don't know if that's the case or not, but I know when it ties into the organization's trajectory

and wanting to be this exciting product that can really dominate the summers in Vancouver, they gotta be better at playing football than where they're at right now. I mean, I agree or disagree here, Ben, I know you watch the CFL pretty closely. They're just not good enough football. And they know Rourke is the tip of the spear.

Sorry, Ben. It's it's it'd be unfair to blame it all on work. It's not like they built the perfect roster and work, shutting them down. Rourke is just part of the overall struggles to live up to it. Yeah. And I think that he needs to be like, I think, Jaycee kind of alluded to this a little bit. He needs to play fantastic in order to beat these top every game like has to be the all-star of all-stars The best quarterback undoubtedly in the CFL for this team to compete with the other teams

Offensively and it doesn't exactly help the case that this defense can't stop a nosebleed sometimes That's kind of where I was at with it. Like I get that Maybe like personnel wise and in terms of where I was at with it. Like, I get that maybe, like, personnel-wise and in terms of where they're at in roster building, they're not there to be one of the best teams, but they do have Rorke, and everyone, I think, still has that idea of Rorke as being the best quarterback in the league. I also think... And being able to make plays

that a lot of guys can't make, and that's what's going to drag them into the fight and make these games a lot more interesting and closer. And once you get into the fight, if they get to the playoffs, if they get to the postseason, you only got to win a couple of games done. Well, that's the thing, right? You just got to get there. And we all we do. I mean, we've done this countless times where, you know, you you read an awful lot

into the beginning of the season, not realizing this is a league where you can go 0 and 6 to start the year back door your way into the playoffs and then boom, all of a sudden you're in the great cup. Right. And that's maybe that's how this ends. I don't know. But right now, again, there's 30,000 people at that game on the weekend, right? Like that's a big audience and a big advertisement. And you just kind of want to have more of those moments where all the energy and excitement around, like I said, pregame concerts, you know, embracing the entire- Smash and watermelons.

Smash and watermelons. Smashing watermelons. You want that to translate into something on the field. Okay, before we go to break, I need to tell you about Jan Pro. From conference rooms to kitchenettes and everything in between, Jan Pro keeps workplaces tidy, clean and disinfected. For a free quote, visit them online at janpro.ca. We're going to go to Seattle next. Dave Softy-Maller from KJR Sports Radio in Seattle is going to join us.

We'll talk some Mariners and the summer of Cal Raleigh. We will talk about NBA expansion and if it's on its way ever to Seattle and then of course Seahawks open training camp this week as well. So there's lots to get into with Softie coming up next on the Halford and Breff show on Sportsnet 650.