Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Canucks Have Completed The Fastest Rebuild In History

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

In hour one, guest hosts Josh Elliott-Wolfe & Israel Fehr look back at a busy weekend in sports (3:00), plus they chat with PHLY_Sports Flyers beat writer Charlie O'Connor (25:50), as Philadelphia gets set to host the Canucks this evening. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Geeky, wide right-wing, in on Lincoln, and shoots. The Kinnock goaltender stopped him. Vancouver wins. They picked up their fourth victory in a row. So what you're saying is, I'm indestructible. Oh, no, no.

And, in fact, even a slight breeze. Indestructible. Dekad, Mattcab, had mixing up with someone in the stands. Oh, my gosh. And that, oh, not going to have great consequences for the Steelers in Metcalfe. This is not kumbaya? Welcome to Halford and Brough. No Halford, no Brough.

They're gone. Not forever. Just for a bit. It's Josh Ellie Wolf. It's Israel Fair filling in. Izzy, how are you? Good, Josh. Bright and early.

I got to remember how to do all these intros. A dog? You're still here. Good morning. Good morning. Zachary. How are you? Good morning.

I'm great. Good morning. All right. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Happy holidays. From the Kintech, but we're in orthotics. Family and this hour. of Halford and Brough is brought to you by

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And Halford & Brough is presented by Sands and Associates score debt freedom Hattrick. No more interest, much lower payments, and financial peace of mind. Visit sands dash trustee dot com. We are filling in for the next couple days. We'll keep the regular how bro

shenanigans going so you can get your what we learns in on the 650 650 Dumbar Lumber Tech line. I'm going to make an executive decision as well that I discussed with nobody before the show. We'll do ask us anythings today and tomorrow because we're not here on Friday. Is that okay?

Okay. Are we cool? It's actually an inspired idea. Wow. Thank you. It's almost like you were a producer at one point. And I was like, you know what we should do to fill time? We'll do that. And in Halbro, tradition, you should get all these submissions and then read none of them and just talk about yourselves. Yeah.

But then the listeners get very upset. That's the dream. You said you'd read our submissions and then they'd like read one. I promise you I will read some of them maybe if you text them in right now, 650, 650, is the Dumbar Lumbertack slide. Today on the show, a lot to get into. It's a Canucks game day at 6.30. We're going to talk to Charlie O'Connor from Philly Sports covers the flyers. We'll talk about them being in a playoff spot now.

Rick Tocke, his impact, everything going on there. What's up with Matt May Mitchcov? At seven, we're going to talk to Mike Teneer from the two deep zone. A big weekend of NFL action and a lot of playoff implications as well. Teams that I feel like my theme for the NFL, week is going to be like, is this team for real? Because I feel like there are a lot of teams that I just don't

really believe in, but... You mean the entire AFC? The entire AFC. And then like most of the NFC except for maybe two teams. And then at 830, 830, we're going to talk to Kevin Woodley from Ingole magazine and NHL.com

about everything going on with Vancouver Canucks. Thatcher Demko has been just unreal for the last week. And we'll get into that with Kevin Woodley. So at 8 o'clock, we'll do what we learned. So get those in. 650, 6.50 is the Dunbar Lumber Text Line.

That's what's happening on the show. Zach, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was. We know how busy your life can be.

What happened? Miss that? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction. Safety Alliance making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit BCCSA.com.C.S.A. Dot C.A. A couple Canucks games since you've last heard from the Halford & Brough show.

Friday night, the Vancouver Canucks go into New York, not to play the Rangers because they had already beat them three nothing, but to play the New York Islanders. And they beat them by three as well, four one. And then on Saturday night, They go into Boston, and they win in a shootout, which Kevin Lankinen is just incredible at. And they beat the Boston Bruins five to four. And all of a sudden, since training Quinn Hughes, Izzy, the Canucks have won four games in a row. They're undefeated in the Quinn Hughes list era. Was Quinn Hughes the problem all along?

He might have been. All the evidence points to yes, based on the record, probably. not. But the Canucks are, the Canucks are 4 and O. They play again tonight since they've traded Quinn Hughes. And I think my question that I want to pose to all three of you and the listeners as well is how are people feeling about this run? Because the people I've talked to, it seems like, hey, on one hand, you're a Canucks fan. You want to see the team win. And it's fun when they are able to win. Personally, I think it's been the most stress-free, fun enjoyment I've had of the Vancouver Canucks and maybe a year watching this team over the last week. But at the same time,

I talked to people and they're like, well, it'd be nice if they, like, mixed in a loss because you want to see them at the bottom of the standings if you're on Team Tank. So it feels like a conflicted week, I guess, for Canucks fans. Yeah, it does. Because the vibes were so low post-Hughes trade. Although Conucks fans, experienced Kinnock's fans saw this coming. They were obviously going to rattle off some wins. You look at the roster and

you add the players added from the Hughes trade, right? It's not like they traded Hughes for pure futures. It's not like a baseball trade where a star goes and it's four minor leaguers coming back who aren't going to play for a number of years. You get three guys who jump into the lineup.

They have even what their floor is, is still an HL player. So that has helped this team for sure. And the idea that there was going to be a fire sale post-use trade was right, because it's like they're at the bottom of the standings. They're going to trade all these other veterans that we've been talking about. When that doesn't happen, their floor is still not great,

but they're not awful. It's the conversation that we've had around the league, that there's no truly, truly awful teams this year, unlike past years where you've seen the teams like Chicago and San Jose be really, really bad. So this was kind of bound to happen. And I do think that Canucks fans, the ones that I engage with as well, Josh, they are not disappointed because the games have been fun. They've been competitive.

They've played physical. That's something that Connucks fans always want to see the team do. But when you saw the team at the bottom of the standings, I think people did take a deep breath, a bit of a sigh of release. as well, they're so bad, in terms of the standings that they have no way of avoiding this, and now they're just quite, they're not quite as bad, even if they're still not great. And we still know, I think the question the fans will have post-trade freeze going into the new year is this is only a problem if they don't end up trading the pending UFAs, which at, you know,

a week ago, two weeks ago was a foregone conclusion. They're going to trade these guys. They have to trade Kiefer Sherwood first and foremost Now if they're back in the playoff mix If they move off that position I think that's when people are going to start to be frustrated Yeah that's the I don't want to call it panic But maybe the panic that I've seen from fans It's like hey is are they going to get close enough

That ownership and management go you know what We got two first round picks We could go for this and I just don't think that I do think there was an acceptance from the organization that was echoed by fans a week ago when the Canucks were in last and they traded Quinn Hughes and it was like, okay, you know what?

At least this year, based on what we've heard from management, they are willing to accept that this year is going to be a down year. Now, that being said, hey, if you win three more games in a row, does that change? I don't know.

I hope not because to me it's, you've kind of made your bed once you made the Quinn Hughes trade, but it has been, if we're talking about the way they're winning, especially on Saturday. And we talk about the new additions. Like Liam Ogren had a great game on Saturday.

He had a goal where he just kind of bodied Hampus Lindholm out of the way. He had that great shootout goal. He had a good assist as well. Like it feels like he may be something that we didn't really look at as a key piece of the trade, but he might end up being something for the Canucks down the stretch. Marco Rossi, I know he only has one point, but he's playing a lot of minutes. And any center on the Canucks right now is vital. Yeah.

And then we've seen the flashes from Booiam, right? So the, the fun part of it has been, hey, at least it's the new guys that are winning you these games and not, well, I guess Keeper Sherwood kind of scored a hat trick on Friday and kind of won you that game. But for the most part, it's been the new guys having a big impact and Dr. Demko kind of winning them these games over the last week. So if you are Team Tank and if you are someone that's looking more towards the future, I think that's that's. a positive of like, hey, if you're going to win games, at least win games like this with the young guys making an impact. Yeah, and you look at the standings, right? It's not like they've jumped way up the standings. And that whole bunch at the bottom of the Western Conference, frankly, in both conferences, all of the teams below the playoff line, they're all tightly bunched, right? Like, there's not, there's not, yes, there's six points out of the playoffs, but it's not like they're, they're right there.

the first team that needs to make up ground. They'd have to hop over like five or six teams to get there. In the east right now, Buffalo has now won six in a row. The Buffalo was just here and they were the bottom of the standings, the Sabres, and now they've won six in a row and they're still just, they're like the Canucks, right? Their second, or their third last in their conference. So it's not like, even at this point, when you get so far behind like the Canucks did, even this mini winning streak.

And look, I mean, if they went on a real, like a 10-game winning streak, At that point, I think you just have to ride with it. Fair enough, man. You did it. You did it. You deserve it. You know, the Oilers did that the last couple of years. Obviously, different stratosphere was like they got off to a slow start. It's like, yeah, well, they've got two of the best players in the world.

They'll probably figure it out. Fastest rebuilding history, man. Fastest rebuild in history. They did the unthinkable. Yeah. The rebuild is officially over. They just won 10 games. I don't know what to tell you.

It would be incredible. It would be. It's a hybrid build executed to perfection. Yeah. They really nailed all aspects of the hybrid. but yeah it's there is the uh so we get a text 650 650 from mark and white rock uh regarding the kucks winning too much mentions the flames and the predators like there is the aspect that any bad team especially in a in a season where you mention it there aren't truly bad team so

any team that's kind of having a bad season you're still going to go on a run and look it does coincide with a convenient timing in regards to the quidews trade but But it's, even if the Canucks were a bad team all season, there's going to be a four or five, maybe six game winning streak at some point. And you're going to win seven out of ten games at some point. The Canucks are in that right now. And I think while it's happening, you've just got to enjoy the good vibes of what the Canucks are doing.

Now, the thing I would say is, and we kind of brought it up with the Keeper-Shirwood aspect to this, there does have to be a level of commitment to this season still not being one way where you aim for the playoffs from management. There still has to be a level of patience, and I know they brought up hybrid build, or they haven't, but it's been reported that they've talked about a hybrid build and not a full rebuild in regards to the Canucks plan moving forward. But that being said, part of a hybrid build, in my opinion, is this season still going poorly. And this season ending in a spot where you're able to pick in the top three or at least the top five.

And the way to do that is still to be measured in how you approach the trade deadline. And so when it comes to keep for Sherwood, I think we can look at him kind of single-handedly winning the game on Friday with the Hattrick as a positive because it's like, hey, this guy has 16 goals and you're still in the market to trade him. And we saw a couple other trades that we can get into around the NHL Friday night. but if anything he's just driving his price up right now and that's great for the Canucks but so as long as we see a Sherwood trade happen and then maybe another trade on top of that I think regardless of how much you win

there's still going to be a level of like okay things are still going according to plan for the Canucks as the season goes on yeah the pending UFA so Sherwood first and foremost Evander Kane is thrown into that conversation as well it feels like based on the reporting since the Hughes trade and particularly over the last week that the veteran defensemen are here to stay because there is an emphasis on developing the Young Deeb that are here now. So William, Patterson, and Valander.

And they don't want to mess with that mix too much. I think you would argue that those contracts are also all pretty fair in terms of value. So then it does become a conversation about the forwards with term. And at this point, it seems kind of unlikely that someone like Connor Garland or Brock Bessor or Jake DeBrusk would be on the move. But that's obviously sort of the second tier beyond the UFAs. But if we are, and we're not saying we're not sounding the panic here that they're not going to trade these guys, it really feels like unless they do go on this mythical 10, 14 game win streak that the plan's not going to change, that they have to move these players for assets,

especially Sherwood, his value is so high that that's going to be the bar. It is just interesting. I think the Hughes trade, the timing of it, changed the parameters of how the Canucks were going to do business, right? Because we went, the memo sent across the league. The veterans mentioned,

are everybody but Hughes. Then Hughes ends up being the first one traded. So it kind of puts the Canucks back in a position where they can maybe wait. And Sherwood has had a very nice season. his scoring was predictably dried up for a short period of time so to get that hat trick is really nice

just for the counting stats anyway but they've got time obviously the trade deadline is still months away at this point yeah and it does feel like they're kind of waiting for their price to be met which I mean it could be higher because on Friday around the NHL there were a couple trades and the first one Friday night before the trade freeze kicked in the roster

freeze, which is in effect until December 28th. Philip Dineau, heading back to Montreal from the L.A. Kings for a second round pick. And then also, I think the one pertaining more to the Canucks just because he's a winger, Mason Marchment

going from Seattle to Columbus for a second round pick and a fourth round pick, which, I mean, so Keeper sure would make $3 million less than Mason Marchment this season. They're both pending UFAs. But, for Sherwood. I know that the track record isn't as

high as Mason Marchment, but Keep for Sherwood this season has 12 more goals than Mason Marchman does. So I just think from a pending UFA and also, I mean, there's the aspect that Sherwood is a pest, he kind of hits everything in sight, talks a lot on the ice, which I know Marchman does too. Yeah. But all those aspects tend to lead me in the direction that if the Canucks are looking for a first round pick for keeper Sherwood and the Crackham were able to get this for Mason Marchment, I think I'd be disappointed at this point if the Canucks aren't able to get a

first round pick for keeper Sherwood. Yeah, it feels like it's trending that way. And as long as he keeps scoring, doesn't need to keep scoring hat tricks, but that would be nice too. That would be cementing a first round pick value. But I think even if he's just a consistent player and as you said, Josh, all the other things that he brings to a team. And he's been that way throughout his time with the Canucks and had the season with the Predators prior to joining Vancouver where he was establishing that kind of reputation. So there are a few years here where teams are getting familiar with this player. And it does feel like, yeah, with the cap implications and the way he's playing, that the value feels like a first and that the Canucks would be able to get

I guess either a third first this season or another first in the following season, then that's that's where they have to be from an asset building perspective. It's also the other part that is going to be interesting to me in terms of how committed they are to a rebuild is what the return for a Sherwood trade looks like because there have been reports that

like, hey, if you get a good roster player back, obviously they want to get younger, but if you get a good roster player back, that might be enough to get it done. I think if you're trying to show that you're fully committed to this being something that at least is a two-year project of like, hey,

you're taking a step back this year and you're kind of looking towards the future it has to be a pick or a prospect coming back and return. If it is a roster player that isn't significantly younger, then I'm going to have some concerns about how committed to this whole rebuilding this management group

really is. Elsewhere around the NHL, the Toronto Maple Leafs are imploding. They have lost three in a row. Every comment coming out of the Maple Leafs right now feels like things are going sideways. But Craig Barube is still working. he still has a job and the Toronto Maple Leafs find themselves

second last second to last in the Eastern Conference right now one point up on the Columbus Blue Jackets who I mean they're making win now trades trading for Mason Marchman so I mean everybody's in it in the Eastern Conference but things are going really poorly the vibes are off in Toronto right now yeah always a good side when the coach says

take it up with the players and then the players are kind of like eh yeah it's fine not not good Yeah, no. It's not. And it doesn't, it doesn't help when, like, so there's the whole Mitch Barner aspect to this over the off season where it's like, okay, now the Leafs can, they're going in a new direction, right? And they're going to be fine now. And I know for a lot of people listening, like, this is great. Yeah. You want to see the Leafs loose. To me, I want to see the Leafs,

like this is great to me, but I am surprised at just how poorly things have gone. And it does feel like they're a team that I, especially with the issues. like Austin Matthews just hasn't been himself. I do wonder if there's a coaching bump to come at some point for them. They do feel like a team that would just benefit from some kind of change right now. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, the Pete DeBore rumors are connecting him to Toronto has been a thing now for a while. And I mean, yeah, they're a weird team from a roster make-up now.

Because when they dedicated, and it's not this management, but the prior management dedicated so much cap space in contracts to the previous core. And a lot of those players are still there, right? Marner's the only one gone. But, you know, Brad Tree Living comes in a couple of years ago. He puts his stamp on the team, which is a lot of defenders that don't necessarily move all that well. They've gone in a completely different play style. They bring in a coach who's known for being a bit more of a tough guy and someone that's supposed

to keep the players accountable. I mean, you mentioned Awesome Matthews. Obviously, that's a huge part of it. Two years ago, three years ago, Awesome Matthews looked like he was in the conversation. He's scoring almost 70 goals. It's like this guy's right next to McDavid. And he, quite frankly, hasn't been that now for a season and a half.

He's still pretty good, but he's not at that superstar level. And then everything around there makes it a lot more difficult to compete if you're the Leafs. Elsewhere, since the Quinn Hughes trade, the Minnesota Wild were also undefeated. There was a stretch of both the Canucks and Wilde being undefeated for a week since the Quinn Hughes trade, but

the Minnesota Wilde lost their first game with Quinn Hughes in the lineup, the Colorado Avalanche, who are just a buzzsaw. They're good. They're so good at hockey. They beat the Minnesota Wilde 5-1, and yeah, the Avalanche are just, they are scary good. And even when teams are making trades. And I know that I believe the wild were on the second half of back to back.

It's tough to get the avalanche in that spot. But that being said, it's just like, it still feels like there's levels to go for a lot of teams to get to the level the avalanche are at right now. Yeah, they're far and away, the best team in the league. And I think the teams in their division, like Dallas and Minnesota are not, I wouldn't say they're pretty close, but they in another season might feel pretty good about themselves. but the abs are just, they're just on another level. I mean, you just look at the goal differential. They're a plus 61 through 35 games.

That's crazy. And Dallas is second in the NHL at plus 36 through 37 games. So we're talking almost double. Yeah. They are blowing teams out, blowing out a Minnesota team that was playing well, right? And riding their Quinn Hughes bump. Yeah. They're having an insane year.

And then also the Buffalo Sabres who mentioned it, They've won six in a row. They're three points out of a playoff spot. I hope they figure it out. I hope this all works out. I hope Yarmot Kekeleinen goes all in. I want the Sabres. I mean, we talk about the Canucks.

They make the Quinn Hughes trade. What does that mean? What kind of more trades are they going to make? What kind of direction are they going in? The Sabres make a GM change. And then within the week have almost already restructured their front office with, you know, Bergevinn coming in, Flynn coming in from Columbus. So Keckleinen gets.

the job on Monday, like a week from today, a week ago last week, and is within the week, like, okay, I'm bringing in these guys, like, I'm already aggressively changing the mix of the front office with the Sabres. Yeah, and they're winning six in a row at the same time. So it'll be interesting to see what they do as the season goes on because they are just longing for the playoffs at this point. Okay, on the other side, we're going to talk to Charlie O'Connor about the Philadelphia Flyers as the Canucks get set to take on the flyers tonight. First game against former head coach Rick Tockeet in Philly.

Halford & Brough is brought to by the Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats a Duick deal since 1926. Visit Duick GM on a Marine Drive downtown in Richmond and at duik Auto Group.com. It is Halford and Brough. Josh Elliott-Wolf, Israel Fair, filling in on SportsNet 650. It's Canucks Central on Sports. Net 650.

From exclusive interviews to insider scoops and post-game breakdowns, we've got it all. Tune in weekdays 4 to 6 p.m. on radio and on demand through your favorite podcast app. Welcome back to Halford and Brough, no Halpert. Brough this week. It's Josh Elliott Wolf and Israel Fair. Filling in, Halford and Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Only a licensed insolvency trustee can cut your debt by up to 80% with no upfront fees. To learn how, visit sands dash trustee.com. And this hour of Halford and Brough is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling.

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to serve you or online at Dunbarlumber.com we go to the phone lines now and welcome in Charlie O'Connor Flyers Beatrider for Philly Sports. Appreciate you taking the time Charlie. How are you? Doing good. How you doing guys? We are doing really well looking forward to the reunion with Rick Tocket and the Canucks tonight first time against his former team

and looking at the standings right now I know there's been some ups and downs from what I've seen from Flyers fans over the course of the season but they find themselves in a playoff spot right now and how is the impact of Rick Tockett been felt

through the first third of the season here yeah I mean I would say that the impact has been felt probably the most in terms of the quality of the defense that the team has played. Now, that's not to say that the team was horrendous defensively, you know, under John Torterella, obviously he's a defensively oriented coach. But I do think the style that they played, especially in the second, not in the second year, but especially last year, I guess is probably the better way to put it.

It did make life difficult on the goalies. It definitely did. You know, they were more of a rush-based team. They took more risks. And the reality of the situation was because of that, the goalies were facing off against a lot of odd man rushes, against a lot of slot chances, and the goaltending numbers, well, certainly not all the defense's fault, probably got deflated by the fact that they were getting hung out to dry a lot.

Well, this year, Tocke has definitely tightened things up. They're giving up fewer, really dangerous chances, certainly fewer outman rushes. And, you know, while it hasn't necessarily manifested itself in good numbers for Sam Aerson, who actually came into the years the projected number one, It's really, really helped Dan Bladar, who has been, you know, probably the breakout player in Philadelphia this year. I mean, I guess you consider Trevor Zegers to be a breakout player, too, but at least he had years in the past where he did look like he was going to be really, really good, whereas I don't think Bladar's ever played this well, especially not in this big of a role. Now, Bladar deserves a lot of credit for that. He's been great.

But I do believe that the impact of Toccan is showing itself in the fact that Bladar is getting. protect it a lot better than the Flyers goalies were last year. And that's a big reason why the goals against numbers are down as much as they are. Flyers fans obviously really familiar with Rick Tocke as a player. That was a big reason of the draw for him to go to Philadelphia. What has he been or meant to the Flyers just in terms of his presence? In Vancouver, the first couple of years, he was very strong in quote unquote establishing a culture and so on. He obviously he's taking over for John Tortorella's coaching regime where that was a very big part of what they were trying to instill with the flyers. So what's been the sort of the off-ice and the

culture-building aspect of Tocquet in Philly? Yeah, Tocke talks about it a lot. I mean, I'm sure, you know, as you guys would know, that's one of his big things. It shouldn't shock you guys that he brings it up a lot. Is it a big deal? Yeah, it's a big deal because Tocket, I think. And he's made it clear that, you know, there's a difference between where the flyers were when Tocke got here and the flyer the flyer, where the flyers were when Tocca got here. Where when Tors got here, I think the culture was actually bad. You know, you would basically just trade your, your longtime captain and Claude Jureau. It was kind of a flounder an organization. And I think Torderella, well, he certainly wasn't perfect.

You did do a good job of implementing, you know, culture of accountability. I think with Tocke now, you know, he knows he's coming into an organization and a locker room where the, the, guys are already tight, they play for each other, they believe in each other, now he's trying to, you know, kind of tachydize the culture, you know, to make it a culture that, you know, he particularly thinks will lead to winning hockey, a cup hockey, and obviously he's never, you know, been the head coach of a cup winning team, but he's been a player on cup winning teams, he's been an assistant coach on a cup winning teams. So it seems like his focus is less about, like, completely turning the culture over wholesale and more about, you know,

tweaking it to, you know, produce what he believes is the kind of environment that will lead to Stanley Cups. And, you know, a lot of that I think has manifested itself in, you know, player usage, which has been controversial at times this year, to be sure, particularly in terms of the way that Mabe Mishkov has been used. But it does seem like he's very interested in implementing this, uh, this standard of, you know, you're, it doesn't matter who your name is. It doesn't matter how much hype you have, you know, I'm going to give. you minutes based on how much I think you deserve it both based on how you perform on the ice and also how you performed, you know, off the ice in terms of practicing and conditioning

and whatnot. So I would say that's probably where it's manifested itself the most. I'm glad you brought up Mitchcock because a lot of the, the Talkett stuff here, especially after he left, were people looking back at what happened with Alias Peterson while Talk was here and whether right or wrong, Alias Petterson's numbers kind of dwindled near the end of Talkett's tenure. And I I personally don't put that on Tocket, but there are a decent amount of people that do attribute that to Rick Tockeet. Now we're seeing some things manifest, I guess, with Tockech and Mitzchkhov. What's the situation there? Is it all related to like a Tuckett's taken over and Mitchikov's offense has kind of dried up?

Or what's the relationship, I guess, between the two? Yeah, I think it's kind of a multifaceted thing, which is why it's tough to analyze because I think, you know, people want to just kind of point to one thing. Like, oh, it's just talking. Oh, it's just the fitness level. Oh, it's the system. And really, it's a little bit of everything. But, you know, really, I think what's going on here is, number one,

Mishkov didn't come to camp in the greatest shape. What the reason for that was, you know, whether it was he changed up his training. You know, he's flat and admit that he really didn't go on the ice at all for the first time this past summer in comparison to other summers. He also noted

that he did have a tweak of his ankle at the end of his summer, so that probably played a role. Or if this was just a case of a kid coming off of his first NHL season who didn't work out as hard as he should have. Like, I truly do not know the exact answer. Maybe it's a combination of all three. But I think that put him behind the proverbial eight ball in terms of Tuckett's view of him. Like, you guys know, Tuckett cares a lot about fitness.

He always has that that's one of his things. And I think that may be, you know, put him behind the eight ball in terms of where he stood with talk it. Then Mishkov, I think, because he was, look, Mishkoff's a guy who wants to produce offense. He believes that's where his role lies, that that's how he helps his teams win. And he, in the beginning of the year,

because he wasn't producing offense, I think, started cheating a little bit. He started, you know, kind of blowing the zone, even more than he did last year, and really focusing on the offense. And then that didn't endear him to Tocket. I would say over the last, you know, maybe like six, seven weeks, things have gotten better, both in terms

of his relationship with Tocket. in terms of building trust there, and also in terms of his fitness level, he certainly worked to get better. He looks quicker. He still doesn't look quick, but he looks closer to where he was last year. I would say now I think it's mostly about on-ice trust. And he's consistently getting somewhere in like the 13 to 15 minutes a game mark, which I did interview with General Manager Danny Breyer last week, a one-on-one,

and I asked him about it. And Brewer-Ber-Bazer said, look, I don't think 15 minutes a night is hurting his development. be a different store if he was getting six or seven. And the implication was basically like, look, I'm not going to step in if he's getting 14, 15. If he's getting under 10, sure, I'll tell the coach you've got to play him more. But at this point, he doesn't see it as hurting his development. What it is doing, though, is it's deflating his numbers because he's not getting

enough minutes to, you know, contend with guys like Baddard and Celebrini, you know, the young guys who are really tearing it up. And, of course, fans are frustrated with that because they see this guy who's hyper-talented, who had the big rookie year, led the team in goals, at 60 plus points, and he's getting, you know, third-line minutes. On a nightly basis, he's probably ranking, you know, seventh, eighth, nine, sometimes even tenth on the forward's chart in terms of time on ice. So there's a lot of things going on here,

but I think really the key to it all in the end is Mishkoff needs to build trust with Tockett. And, you know, from a personal perspective, I would like to see him get more minutes. He's a fun player to watch. And I think there have been times, you know, particularly, you know, let's say in overtime, where Mishkoff could probably be getting more minutes. You know, they've tried a couple times to put Mishkoff with Zegra's on the top powerplay unit, but then they've shied away from it.

I'd like to see more of that because I think, you know, that's how you probably up the overall upside of your power play. So I'd like to see him get more. But in the end, the guy who's making the decision that's on Ice Time is Tucket. And I think at this point, Tocket does not fully trust Mishkoff defensively, which has him shy away from U.S. using him in more high-leverage situations. He's sheltering him.

He's keeping him away from top-tier opponents as much as possible. And it's cutting down on his minutes. Now, is that going to change over the second half? I hope so. I hope that Mishkov keeps trending upwards in terms of, you know, his ability to meet the expectations of the head coach. But honestly, it's very much a wait-and-see approach. There's a chance that he might spend the entire year,

largely getting you know third line minutes 14 15 minutes a night and fans are going to be angry about that and the flyers are going to keep doing what they're doing and we'll see if that's the best for his development but at this point it's just kind of the reality of the situation it is the halford and bruff show josh elli wolf and israel fair filling in for howlford and bruff and joined by charlie o'connor flyers beatwriter for philly sports so a couple weeks ago i had reached out to trying to get you on the station for uh to talk about a potential quinn use trade to Philadelphia and what that might look like. And then a few days later, it definitely did not end up being Philadelphia. And what we've heard since is that, hey, that's a really tough price

to beat for a lot of teams. But the one I looked at, especially when you bring up Mitchikov and Porter Martone has kind of been brought up as well. When we've talked about the flyers, it's like, hey, maybe the flyers have the pieces to put that together. And then there's the obvious ties with Talkett as well. Are there fans in Philly that that wanted the flyers? to go to the same lengths the wild did to get Hughes? Or was it like, hey, you know what, that was a big price to give up and they're not there in their cycle yet? No, I think there absolutely were people who wanted the Flyers to go all in.

And it really just boils down to the way the Flyers are choosing to do their rebuild. You know, and this is probably, you know, reminiscent of a lot of the conversations that happen in Vancouver. Like, the Flyers are rebuilding. They acknowledge the need for a rebuild. there were a couple years before Danny Breyer took over where, you know, it was an organizational mandate that no one was even allowed to say the word rebuild on the record. The ownership wouldn't let them do it.

But they did eventually, you know, there was a shake up at the top of the ownership group. And then Danny Breyer took over his GM. And he was like, no, we're going to rebuild. We're not scared of the word. But they weren't going to tank. So it was one of those like competitive rebuilds rather than a full-fledged. Like, we're going to get a top five pick for four straight years. And then we're going to hit the gas pedal after that types of rebuild.

And there are a lot of fans who are. frustrated with that decision. And the thing is, is that if you don't rebuild the tank way, it's going to be harder to get not necessarily high-end pieces, but high-end pieces of premium positions. You know, you're not necessarily going to get that clear-cut 1C in the draft. You're not going to get that clear-cut 1-D. And the idea was, it was like, well, if you're not going to do it in the draft, this is how you do it. You trade for a guy when, on the rare occasions, when they're available. And the fact that the flyers didn't, yeah, there are a lot of people that are frustrated where it's like, okay, you know, yeah, you've got blue chippers and Michikov and

Martone, but they play wing. This is an opportunity to get a 1D. How often are they truly available, especially when they're still in the prime of their career? Why didn't you pull the trigger? How do you expect this rebuild to work if you don't have one of those guys? In the end, though, and based on everything I've heard, is that, and you know this, Vancouver wanted the center. They wanted the center in the, in the package. So obviously, Minnesota had Rossi, you know, Detroit had Casper and Danielson, there were teams in the mix that had that piece. The Flyers really

don't. They drafted a couple of guys in Jet Luchenko and Jack Nesbitt, who are centers, you should stick down the middle, but they're still in the development base, they're not NHL players, the way Rossi and Casper and Danielson are. So if you were going to go, you're the Flyers and you were going to overcome that, you were going to have to offer up

one of Mishkoff or Marto. You just were going to have to do it. That's basically what Vancouver said, where it's like, look, if you don't have the exact pieces, you're more or less going to have to overpay with another piece relative to everybody else, and the flyers weren't willing to do it. Now, like, I get it. You know, there's a really high on Mishkoff still, despite the way this year has gone so far. It's not like they're itching to trade him, and they love Martone.

You know, they think Martone is, you know, going to be a future star. They took him sixth over all this past draft. And, you know, could they have put together a package not including any of those guys that would have been attractive? Maybe, you know, you've got pieces like Tyson Forrester, Cam York, Jamie Drysdale, you got the center prospects that I mentioned, would it have been a big enough package to beat out Minnesota?

I'm skeptical. So I really would have boiled down to was the flyers ultimately were interested. They did check in, but if the cost had to include one of Martone or Mishkoff, they weren't going to do it, and only time will tell if that's right.

The Quinn Hughes sweepstakes were unique, especially given that he made it pretty clear. There were a handful of teams that he was interested in going to, and that that was going to make a trade or at least the trade market more difficult for teams to reach that bar of what Minnesota did.

The Flyers ultimately don't do that. They've been pretty competitive this year, even if there are still some questions about the team, I think, long term. What is the next step for the Flyers as they rebuild this thing and try to get back to being a competitive playoff team? Yeah, I think number one,

they want to make playoffs. Now, they went into this year very open that they didn't necessarily believe that this was a playoff or bus season, that this season could be a success even if they don't make the playoffs. And I think they still believe that. But there is an element where, you know, especially in the market, you make the playoffs, that is a sign that maybe things are actually turning around. I think it would catch the attention of fans in a way that they really haven't had for quite a while. So I think that's like a turning point. but really if you're talking about like turning this thing around fully there's going to need to be some big moves made they're just are like i'm i remain very high on mafay mishkov's upside i'm really really high on border martin and i like a lot of their young pieces but the reality of the situation is you know they don't have that clear cut one c you know really i'm not even sure if they have a clear cut two c like you know guys like christian devorak no kates they're they're fine players and shongoturi at one time was a one c but he's not on that level anymore but he's not on that level anymore but and he's only getting older.

So they don't have that clear-cut one-see. The defense is deep. They have a lot of good young pieces, but I don't think any of them scream, you know, clear-cut number one who's going to take 27, 28 minutes in a playoff series in a game. So I think at some point

they're going to need to make the big move. That's why there was so much frustration on the part of fans when they didn't make the big move for Hughes because it's like, well, all right, like you can say there'll be another guy, but will there really? There aren't, there are many Quinn Hughes-level players in the league at any position, let alone at a premium position,

so maybe you just should have just bit the bowl and made the deal now. I don't know, like I think this team can be a playoff team without clear-cut answers at 1-D or 1-C. Can they be an actual contender? I don't think so. So I think at some point over the next couple years, they got to find a way, I'm not even necessarily saying get like a superstar 1-C or whatever,

but, you know, get a guy who can be a point, game type guy who can be the facilitator for all these talented wings they have on the team. Until they get bad, until they are stronger down the middle and until, you know, maybe they have one more clear-cut first-payer defensemen, I'm not sure how they turn the corner into true contention, but the thing is that they do have a lot of assets. So they have assets, they have cap space. They're building, you know, I would say, you know, and I'll use this term loosely, but they're building a culture where, like, players, well, I'm not sure they're going to be, like, itching to come to Philly. I don't think they're going to be scared to come to Philly.

You know, it's a big market. You're on TV a lot. The travel isn't bad. They spend a lot of money on, you know, facilities and whatnot. And they seem like they're trending upwards from competitiveness standpoint. So the hope is, is that the combination of, you know, lots of assets, draft picks, prospects, cap space, and the fact that Philly can be a pretty desirable market, they're hoping they can convince guys to come here. We'll see if they can. That's part of the plan, and we're still seeing if the plan can work. Hey Charlie, really appreciate you taking the time and enjoy the game tonight. All right, sounds good. Thanks, guys.

Thanks, Charlie. There is Charlie O'Connor Flyers Beat Writer for Philly Sports, joining us on the Halford & Brough Show, Josh Ellie Wolf and Israel Fair filling in and some good insights on the Quinn Hughes situation there. And I do wonder how many teams, I don't know if Phillies really in it, but I do wonder how many teams, mainly Detroit, are going to look back and be like, man, we should have just given up that one more piece to get it done. Like in three years is Detroit can be like, ah, good thing we have Simon Edmondson

and not, and not Quinn Hughes. And Edvinson could be good, but man, like, if he's the reason you're not making the deal, to me, it's like he better hit huge. Yeah, I mean, Detroit feels like the team at the top of that list. New Jersey in different ways as well. New Jersey is like you messed yourself up so bad that you find yourself in this position. And the flyers are kind of in between that, where they have committed to building where they had been. And I think it was tough in Philly because basically through the mid-70s, you know, the Broad Street Bullies teams until, I don't know, five or six years ago, they were really competitive.

They were in the playoffs almost every year. They haven't won the cup since the 70s, but they've made the final multiple times. They had many runs with different teams. they were able to build on the fly. And I just don't think you can really do that in the NHL today, right? So they were a team that had done it really without drafting exceptionally high, right? Charlie talked about Claude Giroux, the Claude Giroux era. That's not a guy that they drafted in the top five and then goes on to become a franchise player.

And so I think in Philly there was a specific idea of like we don't have to do it the way that everyone else is doing it. And they've had to be realistic. And the Quinn Hughes pressure point, especially with the, talk it relationship made them a really interesting spot but they appear to have committed to not wanting to give up the package where four futures are going out for a player who i mean queen hughes would make a difference obviously on every team in the league and would have been a pretty interesting stylistic fit with the flyers so i i imagine that they're not going to kick themselves in the same way like you said josh that a team like detroit and certainly new jersey might but

if they are three or four years down the line and you know as Charlie's saying they still don't have that bona fide number 1D and that seems to be from a building block perspective something that's missing they've got maybe the center questions and the top D questions and that that those teams don't win Stanley Cups

you don't have the 1C and the 1D you're not going to win the Stanley Cup and the thing I will say that would have been interesting from a Flyers trade package perspective and who knows if they were willing to include it, but an unprotective first round pick this year, I would have been interested in. I know they're in a playoff spot right now, but that would have been enticing in a more interesting way than the Minnesota's first round pick. But everything outside of that,

I just don't think there was a way they were getting close to the same package. The Wilde did end up giving up for Quinn Hughes, but the Canucks take on the Quinn Hughes list flyers tonight in Philly as they face off against Rick Tocke for the first time since his departure from Vancouver a little programming note you can hear it here on SportsNet 650 but you won't be able to see it on Sportsnet

because it's on Monday so it's on Prime and that's how it goes so if you're looking for the game at 430 you can hear it here on SportsNet 650 but adjust accordingly for your TV watching priorities. Okay it is

the Halford & Brough show Josh Elliot Wolf Israel Fair filling in. On the other side, we're going to speak to Mike Tenier from the two deep zone about everything going on in the NFL, a couple weeks away from the postseason. Halford & Brough is brought to you by the Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats the Duick Deal since 1926. Visit Duick GM on Marine Drive, downtown in Richmond, and at duick Auto Group.com. This is Halford & Brough on SportsNet 650.