Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Canucks Have To Figure Out Their Top 6

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason  look back at a busy weekend in sports (3:00), they talk a couple of disappointing Canucks losses over the weekend (6:00) as well as a testy EP40 interview, plus the boys talk the greatest Whitecaps player debut in franchise history, in what was an impressive win to start their season (27:00), and relate that to the offensive punch that the Canucks are currently missing, and look at what management might do at the trade deadline and the entry draft to try and fix the Canucks top six (40:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na- Right side, through it to the goal, tip they score! Dylan Gunther! We're struggling to score goals, but you gotta move your feet, you gotta change your angles, you gotta hit the net. Comes to Olbatskin, he scores! He did it! He did it! It's a hat-trick for Olbatskin! Good morning Vancouver, 6 o'clock on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody is how for did his breath it is sports net 650 We are coming you live from the kin tech studios and beautiful fairview slopes in Vancouver Jason. Good morning. Good morning Hey dog. Good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie. Good morning to you. Hello. Hello internal SEO Good morning to you as well. Good morning How far breath of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff

that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver.

We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. You know what? We don't have a big guest list today. It's the inverse of a big guest list. We only have two guests on the program today. I know granted both guests are very good. Thomas Drantz at 730, Kevin Woodley at 8, but for the first 90 minutes of this show, it's going to be uninterrupted. Halford and Bruff as we take you through everything that happened over the weekend, two Canucks games back to back on Saturday and Sunday. Spoiler alert, they lost them both.

And then at 7.30, we will talk to Thomas Drantz from the Athletic Vancouver, who is on this trip in Vegas, in Utah, covering the games on the weekend. Eight o'clock, we will talk to Kevin Woodley from nhl.com and Ingold Magazine about everything that's going on in net. Archer Seeloff's made his return to the crease on Sunday. Then of course Kevin Lankin had signed that big multi-year extension on Friday while we were on the air, which was a nice touch. So there's a lot to get into. We're gonna go very Canucks heavy on the program today. First hour

we'll be almost exclusively Canucks covering the two games that happened over the weekend. 7 o'clock we'll dive into some of the major stories from around the National Hockey League There was a lot that happened this past weekend and then again at 730. It's Thomas Drantz 8 o'clock. It's Kevin Woodley 830 We're gonna do what we learn as a reminder start getting him in now Dunbar lumber text line is 650 650. Let us know what you learned over the last 72 hours in sports get them in hashtag them WWL it's your chance to be on the radio at 830 this morning that is what's happening on the program today laddie tell everybody what happened hey did you guys see the game last night We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? What happened?

What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. On Sunday in Utah, Dylan Gunther scored the tie breaking goal with just under six minutes remaining in the third period and the Utah Hockey Club defeated your Vancouver Canucks 2-1 at the Delta Center. It was two losses in two nights for the Vancouver Canucks because on Saturday they lost 3-1 in Vegas. Yeah, at least they got a bunch of shots against the Vegas Golden Knights. Yeah, last night,

what did they end up with? 13, 15 shots, four shots. Was it three or four shots for the Vancouver Canucks in a 2-1 loss? Pick a number, any number. To Utah, it was not a high number of shots. And, um, as I tweeted out after the game, my main focus has really shifted to the Canucks top six and what they're going to do about it.

Because as it stands right now, there is not a single player that's playing, performing, producing at an elite level and their top six last night. In theory, their best players are Pedersen, Hedl, Besser and Debrusk, Drew O'Connor and Kiefer Sherwood providing physical support. But you know, let's focus on Pederson, Hedl, Besser and Debrusk.

What are the connects got there? We all know the story with Pederson and I know Halfords got something to add onto that later. I'm out on PD talk for a while. The other centre is. Not for long. No, you're not going to draw me back in. By a while he means five minutes.

No, no, no. Ten minutes maybe. The other centre is, I've said my piece, the For long. No, you're not going to draw me back in. By a while, he's been fighting for 10 minutes. Maybe. The other centre is, I've said my piece, the other centre is a 25 year old in Filipino who's got speed and skill. And I think we've all been impressed with his effort level, but has never actually played or

produced consistently in the top six. And it's not like he's piling up points for the Vancouver Canucks right now. Besser and Debrecht are both good wingers, but there's a big decision to make with at least one of them, just one of them. I think Debrecht can be back. What are the odds really that Besser resigns at

this point? Because it sounds like the Canucks are asking him to take a significant hometown discount. And that's if they really want to bring him back at all. Right. Part of me wonders if this management group is just going to turn over the entire core except for Quinn Hughes. I really do wonder that. It's actually crazy if you think back to a year ago, the Canucks had six players in the All-Star game. And deservedly so.

Hughes, Pedersen, Besser, Miller, Demko, and of course they had Lindholm because they'd acquired him from Calgary. It is possible that of those six players that went to the All-Star game, only one of them will be on the Canucks next season and that is Quinn Hughes. Two of them are already gone. This top six, what is it? What is it besides, honestly, I'm not trying to be mean here, one of the worst top six

groups in the league, I think. It's. The way, the way it's currently going. It's pretty impotent. The way it's pretty going. It's the opposite of potent. It's impotent. It's, Sunday was a tough watch and we are getting

countless texts into the Dunbar Lumbertex message in basket, um, echoing that sentiment. The Canucks for the record, as Jason was trying to pick numbers in the intro, uh, they were out shot 32 to 15 in Utah. Now some will say, well, they're on the second of the back to back and they were tired. So too was the Utah hockey club also on the second of a back to back. Yes,

they were at home. So there was some energy there, but the Canucks mustered 15 shots on net in a two one game, uh, that was up for grabs right up until the end, right? Right up until six minutes left in the third period, that was a one one game. And they were getting pretty roundly out shot kudos by the way, to Archer Siloves for making his return to the goal after a lengthy layoff and playing pretty well in that. He deserves credit for that but back to the top six. It is, it's jarring when you think about the six all-stars in particular and this

team at one point I would say had, and Bruff and I were trying to kick around the right term yesterday like what's the term that you wanna use for a difference maker, a game breaker, catalyst is probably the right word. You picked it up yesterday, you're like, I think catalyst is the word we're looking for. I think you're right. And it's someone that-

Who's making things happen for that group? Nobody, not a one. Who's the guy that will beat a guy one on one, open up passing lanes, open up shooting lanes. You know, Quinn Hughes is the perfect example of a catalyst and he's injured. Well, Heedle had some looks last night. I mean, I know he's not elite, but he had a few

looks, at least he's doing stuff out there. Totally. I mean, he might be the most encouraging of the six, but again, he's a 25 year old guy with durability issues and you know and despite him doing stuff out there, is he producing? Like he's not really producing all that much, right? And listen, I'm not here to, the last guy I'm

going to pile on is the new 25 year old who has actually looked energetic. Sure. I'm just wondering who's going to perform at an elite level out of this top six. No one's doing it right now. And you know, it, you know, everyone's ripping on Rick Tauke, not everyone, but a lot of

people are Rick ripping on Rick Tauke. Like if he asked this team to open it up a little bit more and run and gun, they would get killed. They would get killed. They would get killed. There is no one in this forward group right now that is, that is like, you're just like, you feel like, oh, they're just being held back. Right. You know, like there's all like, if, if only he'd take, you know, like he

takes just like, he just needs to let, just let them run. It's like they can't run right now. They're not capable of running right now. I know exactly what you're saying. There's not so much offensive upside in a group that prominently features, again, prominently features at times guys like Dakota Joshua, Connor Garland, Philip Hedl, Drew O'Connor,

in the top six. Those guys are making cameo appearances with enough regularity that they're frequent contributors to it. And I do want to turn the attention to talking now because I'm still kind of mystified why people put this at the feet of the head coach. I'm gonna play some audio from yesterday

where Rick Talkett in about 30 seconds of audio points out very clearly where the shortcomings are within the system that they're playing. We'll play the audio and then we'll come back on the other side and try and break it down. And also, if you have a legitimate criticism or something that you want to point to as to why

this is a coaching issue and not a talent issue, please text in Dunbar Lumbertex line at 650-650. And try and actually connect some dots, as opposed to being like, well, Pedersen isn't playing well, that's's on target but before you do any of that listen to Rick talk at following a 2-1 loss to Utah last night at the Delta Center. Well the frustrating part of things like we had 21 block shots, there's 15 missed shots, it's 30 something chances that you know what you

can't you know we're struggling to score, but you got to move your feet. You got to change your angles. You got to hit the net That's a big number for 14 that's not scoring so I rather guys just take a little bit off it hit the net and get people in that because You know, we're double clutching and I think that's a lack of confidence So we got to take a couple days here and figure this out. So there's a reason that Rick Taukett had those two numbers at the ready, immediately following the loss, where his team had 15 shots on goal.

Like he didn't just casually have those slip to him. Like he knew right after the game that there was gonna be some questions about why they only had 15 on net. And he said, we had 21 blocked and 15 missed. That's another 36 attempts that did not require a save from the opposition goalie. Then, Tauke went out of his way to explain what's going on. Well, the guys aren't moving their feet enough.

And not just moving their feet in a sort of nebulous general sense. They need to move their feet to create different shooting angles to get pucks on net. Then he said once you do that it's very imperative that we head to net with our shots. Then he went so far as to say that hey and if you're having problems after moving your feet and finding a different shooting angle to get the puck on net you could do a couple things. You could take something off of your shot so maybe power becomes the secondary priority and accuracy becomes the first priority.

And maybe trying to pick either top corner or wherever you want to go bar down. Maybe the idea is to just put the puck on the net. And how many times have we gone over this? How many mornings. Now. Have we gone over there and then explain mornings have we gone over this? Now, now, now, hold on, hold on. And then explain it to the listeners.

Like, they've never watched hockey. It's like, sometimes you need to move your feet to create passing angles and shooting angles. And if you just stand there, if you just stand there, you're not doing very much good. Is this the cool wet sack conversation? And people will just be like, it's hard to stand there when your knee is riddled with tendonitis.

Now to be fair, there might be an argument to be made that if the coach can't hammer home the cool wet sack argument, that that's on coaching. That they're not responding to his message. They're not doing the things that he's continuing telling me to do. That might be the message is stale or they don't have the personnel to do what talk it wants. How is moving your feet and getting pucks on that a stale message? Maybe they don't have the guys that can move the way that talk it wants them to move. I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. I'm laughing so hard.

It's the simplest thing that you tell pucks on kids when you're coaching them. Hold on though. You gotta move your feet. You gotta move your feet. Does Tauke have to do what he did the first time he got here when he broke down every single play? Was it power plays he was going over? He was just going over defensive positions. Does he have to do that for the forward group now?

I think this is more like you need to have it instinctually as a player that if it's not there on the first shot attempt, you gotta move. How can you get to the NHL and not have that instinctually as a player? Doesn't that go against the recent trend though? Isn't the trend now to like shoot less and take your opportunity when the grade A chance is there? And what Tauke is telling him to do is not. He's telling him to be a volume shooting team.

No, well, no. He is. No, he's not. To a certain degree, he is. Well, they just had 15 shots on goal. But they had- So he's not telling them to be a volume shooting team. He's telling them to get more shots on goal.

That's what he's telling them. He's telling them to- Volume. Yeah, volume being like- 15 shots is volume for this team. Maybe 22 shots. How about that? He's not telling them to be a volume shooting team. That's fake

news. What he's telling them is 15 shots isn't enough. And it's crazy when you watch some of these guys. I thought you wanted volume though, and that is a lot for us. No, more than 15. Oh, okay. Yeah. So the other thing that he had in that clip was talking about double clutching. Can you cue up the second clip that talk it had? Because he went back to this again when talking about their shooting woes, both in terms of volume and then finding the back of the net with said shots. Right. You emerge from a weekend with two goals and two games. There's going to be some criticisms here now.

More Rick Tocket following the loss to Utah last night. Yeah, no, I get it. Like I said, you know, when you get shots through to the net and when you hit the net or you don't get your shots blocked, you're going to get possession time. So it's not one and done. Our shot selection, we have guys double clutching right now. And you know, these next two days we're going to have to figure it out here, practice, get some confidence on some guys.

Do confident players double clutch a lot? If you see, for example, if you see, let's talk about baseball, a short stop picks up a ground or any double clutches or throws. A little double pump? Is that confidence? No, it's probably, dare I say, a baseball player that might be struggling with the yips. Doesn't just want to naturally release it and throw to the place it's supposed to be thrown to.

I'm scared of making a mistake. No real confidence in the first move, you know? So. Do you ever see a quarterback that's like patting the ball a little bit, like he's in the pocket and he pats the ball and pats the ball and it doesn't, he doesn't really want to throw it because like he's a little bit, Oh, I might throw an interception. Oh, Oh, and I've been sacked. So they ever see that.

Is that a confident quarterback? There's a reason that, um, we clipped talk it with the double clutch thing, not once, but twice in the post game. And he only did about two and a half minutes of post game. I'm like, well, that seems interesting that he's talking so much about double clutching. Then it got more interesting following Following his media availability yesterday, Rick Tocket spoke off camera with a couple of reporters, including Sportsnet's very own Ian McIntyre. Now this is something that really caught the attention of the onlines overnight,

because the article was published late, and of course it is now 6.16 in the morning. So it's pretty early. I'm gonna read what Tocket told Ian McIntyre about Elias Pedersen. This, again, this was after the Scrum. This was off camera. This was IMAG talking to Tocket about double clutching

and Elias Pedersen. Here's the quote. We've talked about, he has to move his feet and can't double clutch. I think he's waiting for something. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence in his shot, but as soon as he has room, he's got to take it and he's just got to blast it.

I'd rather him just rip a puck right now. He's not moving his feet. I thought today some shifts he was moving his feet and it looked like we had some glimpses, but six on five there at the end, it's the same thing waiting. If he just takes three or four strides, I don't know if it's a mental block right now all year, but he's got to move his feet. Then IMAQ. And then what happened?

Then IMAAC also off camera went and asked Pedersen about what his coach just said, specifically if confidence is a factor when struggling to score. And Pedersen replied, it's more annoying dealing with the media. Oh, come on. And IMAAC had ice cream all over his face too. He's like, I'm in.

I'm at gate ice cream. What a bite. That was the other. So anyway, we're probably not going to. There's a lot to unpack. But as Jason said, he really say that it's more annoying dealing with the media. I mean, it's just lashing out badly. And as you go as damage, he's laughing.

So disappointing. Here's so so disappointing Here's what I'll say There's going to be some type of breaking point if it hasn't already happened internally because now Externally, that's probably the most detailed a critique that talking is had of Pedersen which we have noted on this show Has often been something that the head coach has been loathe to do, partly because I don't think he likes dealing with the ramifications in the aftermath and the blowback.

And I think the second part of it is, is he knows that taking that particular player to task maybe doesn't necessarily work. So if he's doing it, my first read on the situation would be like, frustration has reached a point that it's just boiling over and he just can't watch it happen anymore. Tommy texts in, bring the Sedines into coach. What are they doing towards this team? Doesn't everyone know by now that the Sedines and Pedersen don't have a relationship?

Is that not widely known? You guys have never heard known? Doesn't it? You guys have never heard that? Like, I thought that was known. They don't have a very good relationship and a lot of it is, Pedersen's a lone wolf. He really just wants to figure stuff out by himself. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to say. Well, I do. It was one of the red flags that I heard.

What do you mean, he doesn't have a relationship with the Sidians or a great relationship with the Sidians? What? What? I do know, it's pretty clear where this is headed. And that's that, you know, Pedersen isn't going to be a member of the Vancouver Canucks for much longer. And if it does last through the end of this season, then it then it just gives Alvin and Rutherford a shorter window in order to trade him before July 1, which things get really sticky because then the no move kicks in.

I mean. Well, how sticky is it getting right now with his play and his attitude? Very. Is it, I mean, all it takes is one team out there to be like, this is a distressed asset, we're going to get it for cheap and we can build him back up and they may well be able to do that.

But with the amount of money that's left on that contract, I mean, this isn't taking on Patrick Lina for two more years. Nope. Like the Habs did. This is a, this taking on a big, big contract and people will say, well, the cap's going up, it's still a big contract. It's still going to be one of the bigger contracts right now. And I, and I keep on pressing at this.

I really don't think that everyone fully appreciates how far this guy's game has fallen off. Yeah, well. I really don't. Let's pivot off, let's pivot off Pedersen for a second. We don't wanna talk about him and focus on the guys that orchestrated this deal. I've been very complimentary of the work that Alvin and Rutherford have done

since they've come aboard in Vancouver. I can't justify anything that's happened since prior to last All-Star Break with the way the negotiations went, the way it felt that there was a strong arming into the deal, signing him to the richest deal in franchise history. And then, I mean, and again, this is a retrospect, but naively thinking that that was somehow going to fix the issues. Yeah. That adding additional pressure and responsibility and heightened expectations was going to make

things better seems like a catastrophic error in judgment. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. He does not seem very open to feedback at all. And he's like, I'm going to work this out. I don't want to talk about it. You know?

And we went through this before. We've been through it before and people are like, well, he's never struggled. Uh, he never struggled any under any other coach. So it must be talking. I'm like, what are you talking about? Yeah, he did. He went through this exact same thing where it

was clear his confidence was bothering him and other people were like, no, it's his wrist. And then when he came out of it, he was asked, like, was it the wrist? He's like, no, it really wasn't. You know? I am at the crazy pills stage, like I'm actually well past the crazy pill stage.

Um, you watch him play and talking, he's talking about the six on five when PD had it in the deep slot, stayed in the deep slot when he could have attacked space, immediately looked to pass it off and actually had to keep the puck because the pass wasn't there, double clutched on a shot, unloaded a muffin, nothing. You know, like it's, it's, like it's just so obvious right now

that this is a confidence issue. And I know some people will push back and say, no, it's obvious that he's injured. Okay, well then we've got a disagreement and I don't think yelling at each other online or yelling at each other on the radio is going to make a difference. You've got your opinion, I've got mine, I'm pretty

confident on mine, you'm pretty confident on mine. You're pretty confident on yours, but the reality is there is a, there is, um, something that needs to be done about this. With the injuries. Like it cannot continue like this. It just cannot. But what always bothers me about that injury

talk is that if he really truly is injured, why don't they just sit him? I mean, it's not like he's producing anyways. He's not helping the team the way he's playing currently. And yeah, obviously they're looking to, they're chasing a playoff spot. They want to make it. I get that.

If he was like their best player on the ice every night and he had to play through an injury, it'd be a different story. If he was Quinn Hughes playing through an injury and they're chasing that final wild card spot, I get it, play him. But as it currently stands, because he's not doing anything on the ice, he's a non-factor.

If he is injured, why wouldn't they just sit him for a few weeks? I think, I think there's a big. What difference does that make? I think there's a big divide between the two camps on how severe the injury is and how much. But even if it's like a minor one, like, why don't you just sit him, rest him? I'm telling you, I think there's a big divide

between the two camps on how severe the injury is and how much it's affecting his play. Well, Pedersen isn't saying right now that he's hurt. He's not saying right now that he's hurt. Right. Like I don't think, I don't think we should hold that, that angle against him. He's not sitting there going, I'm hurt.

Yeah. Right. I mean, I don't, I don't think he is either. I'm just saying if he were. Now his agent came on Donnie and Dolly a couple of weeks ago and said that his knee issues were bothering him in the summer and that's something that Petey had already said and he had to work

around it and he had to train around it and that's, you know, I'm sure that he had a bad off season in terms of training. Now, whether that was completely on him or that was the knee issue, he clearly didn't come into camp into shape to the point where the Canucks were saying, well, we're just going to work them extra hard here. And even if he's tired for some games, it's just

got to be something that we're done. They basically said, well, he had a bad off season. He wasn't strong enough. He's not conditioned enough. So we're going to do that now. And if he's tired, then, um, so be it, but we got to play him into shape, But whatever happened to that plan, the plan failed.

There's a very real case to be made here that he doesn't feel up to anywhere near a hundred percent and he's trying to play through it and he's frustrated because he doesn't want to use as an excuse and then everyone's dumping on him. Right? But the problem here is that there's no solution. There's no solution.

Like it's a problem that doesn't have a solution because his play is not getting any better. How is rest on a solution though? Cause obviously. If he feels the way you just said he feels. All parties would be like, sit out cause they're sitting out. Okay, we're going to go a little late here.

Eric texts in, um, Bruff, no, that's not widely known about the Sedines and Pedersen. I thought they were involved with the team. The Sedines are very involved with the team. Um, but the relationship with the Sedines is not a close one. And Eric says, that's news to me. And I follow the team closely.

Well, not that closely, apparently. I had no idea Petey didn't take feedback and didn't have a relationship with the twins. Take the twins thing out of this thing. How many times, how many times have you heard talk it say something like, I love when players come to me and say, I want to talk about this. I want to talk about it.

He would often say that about JT. Okay. And this is not me pitting JT against Petey. I don't think JT was a perfect player. I don't think he was a perfect personality. This is not me pitting JT against Petey. I don't think JT was a perfect player. I don't think he was a perfect personality. This is not about this. When Tokett praises others, he's often saying, I want more out of it from my guys.

Okay. He went to the, he was coaching, helped coach team Canada at four nations. What did he say? Man, McKinnon, Crosby, McDavid, those guys all work so hard. How many times you've heard him saying, I want players to come to me.

Who do you think he's talking about? Drew O'Connor. It's just, it's just obvious. There is not, and when you hear, you know, his Pedersen's talks with the media, he is not open to talking about things. His ego is badly, badly damaged right now. Noah from the whack just wrote in, Brough got wrote back into this so fast. It was like, you know.

Yeah, right? I told you. It's not his fault. It's not his fault. It's nobody's fault, but it's also everybody's fault. And that line could be used for a lot of different things and a lot of different teams in this market. We have to go to break. When we come back, the conversation continues. More Canucks. Seven o'clock, we're going to turn our attention to the rest of the National Hockey League. And then at seven thirty, Thomas Trance is going to join the program. And then at eight o'clock, Kevin Woodley is going to join the program. You are listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

It's Canucks Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah, your destination for everything Canucks, exclusive interviews, inside info, and even the post game show. Listen four to six PM weekdays and on demand through your favorite podcast app. 634 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers.

They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. This is my favorite part.

This is a good song. You see, I think they should play this music while Patterson warms up and works out. I think he'd be playing a lot better if he was listening to this the entire time. He'd be so happy. He would. All his worries would just melt away. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. Get a table to Pederson talk for a little bit here on the Haliford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650. Although, I guess this conversation will just be an offshoot of a Pedersen conversation.

Cause we do need to further discuss this top six forward group. And I think there's a real sense of one, what the Canucks are gonna do going into the March 7th trade deadline. And then two, if anything is gonna happen of significance to alter the course of this team. And by alter the course, I mean turn this group,

at least in this particular season, from a playoff afterthought to a playoff contender. And it's a tall order. It's a very tall order. They've already made one franchise altering trade in moving out JT Miller. The more that you see this thing progress and the more that you kind of reread, and I stress

reread the tea leaves, it's becoming pretty apparent that trading one or the other, and by that I mean Miller or Pedersen wasn't going to be the solution, that it probably is edging more towards both. That's my feeling on this. Spent all weekend thinking about it. 48 hours, folks. 48 seconds in the last 48 seconds of the 48 hours. Yeah, it was late at night. But I just- Halford all of a sudden wakes up. He's just about to snooze off. He's like, are the Cucks in trouble?

I bolted up out of bed. I think they're gonna have to trade Peterson It's it's gonna get to the point where People and if they're not doing it already they will where they start saying the quiet part out loud while the cameras are rolling and the microphones are there and It's a crazy, crazy turn of events when Bruff comes on in the first half hour of the program and reminds everyone this team had six players at the All-Star game last year.

And when we talk about catalysts and drivers and difference makers, I would have said that it points last year, I would have said that the Canucks had three bonafide ones. In Hughes, in Pedersen, and in Miller. And now, if you go to that game last night in Utah, where they mustered 15 shots on net, against a team that's chasing them for the playoffs,

Miller wasn't there, Pedersen was a shadow of what he's been, and Hughes was hurt. So you can't really go from three catalysts to none and expect to have results, but that's the situation the facts are in right now. Well, get your Whitecaps talk in right now. What kind of a catalyst was, for example,

Ryan Gould last night for the Whitecaps in Portland? Ryan Gould, forget him. We have a shiny new toy to talk about in Vancouver, and that's Jaden Nelson. In what was widely considered by all the folks that I talked to, all three of them, the greatest debut, MLS debut in Whitecaps franchise history, Jaden Nelson, formerly of TFC. And then he spent a couple of years in Norway and in Germany had a goal and three assists.

He contributed to do every single thing that the Whitecaps did in a 401 win to open their MLS campaign in Portland on Sunday. I knew of Nelson prior to the Whitecaps did in a 4-1 win to open their MLS campaign in Portland on Sunday. I knew of Nelson prior to the Whitecaps acquiring him because he'd kind of been on the fringes of the Canadian men's national team. During the Herdman era, he had been called up a few times, he played in a couple of games in qualifying, but he was never a major factor. He's young and he had a ton of talent and I'd heard about him at TFC, but almost as a sort of like keep an eye on this guy. Yeah. And then he went and played in Norway and in Germany, as I mentioned, it didn't really work out. Then there was kind of the

impression that he just sort of had to resign himself to coming back to North America, that that's what this was with the white caps. They got them for relatively cheap. I think it was a million, $20 million. Okay. Enough of all those details. When you was with the whitecaps. They got them for relatively cheap. I think it was a million, $20 million. Enough of all those details. When you look at the whitecaps, and you've got a guy, the new guy like that, and hopefully you can continue that play, but getting it back to Ryan Gould, like he's the catalyst for the team

in pretty much every way. He's the engine. He makes it go. He makes things happen. He creates plays. He's got the magical left foot. So when Quinn Hughes is healthy, we all know what a catalyst is. He is, and he's the definition of moving your feet

and opening passing lanes. And not everyone's going to do it at that level. Hughes is the gull, gull is the huge. The captain's all that stuff. But upfront, who's the catalyst? Who's the guy that's going to, you know, sometimes, I know it's a team game, but sometimes you just need to make something out of nothing.

You could say that the connects need their Jayden Nelson. The guy that's going to make things happen up front. I don't think I'd say that, but who is it? Like, you know, when, when Pedersen was on, obviously he was an amazing catalyst. He, he, he, he, he was incredibly shifty and smart and he had the juice in his legs or the

burst in his legs. And, um, when JT Miller was on his game, we all know that, you know, he, he had that capability to just be like, well, Miller's got the puck, he's going to do something with it. Right. Um, I think Connor Garland has that potential, but I also think he's better in a third line

role along with Dakota Joshua. If you bring them up and, anyway, I don't want to make it about that, but like, I don't see as the, as the, maybe you got to bring up Garland, but the top six is currently constructed. I do not see one player that you're like, well, just get it on his stick and he'll make something happen. Like I think that Garland's being overused

and overworked quite a lot. Garland's averaging almost 19 minutes a game. Yeah, and I don't think Garland's playing as well as he was earlier in the season. And I think that has to do with the fact that he's taxing to ask him, I love the player. I love his compete. I love what he does in the way that he plays,

but it's also an incredibly taxing style of play for a diminutive player. And we're now at the 60 game mark of the season. I would not be surprised if Connor Garland is probably like, there's some fatigue setting in here, because I'm not, his style of play is way more effective when he's at 14 or 15 minutes. When he's at 19, it's tough.

Also, it is a huge, huge ask to, you know, put the weight of the top six forward group on Carter Garland's shoulders. I mean, he's a very... He's like, I'm not even in the top six right now. You don't pay him like an elite player. You don't deploy him like an elite player because he's a very good hockey player. But there's a difference between very good and elite. We saw the four nations face off, what elite looks like. And Hughes is that guy when he's in there

and when he's healthy. At forward, Miller, I mean, let's just say what it was. Miller at times had that get up and go that other guys don't have. It's why he was such a coveted player. Miller could make things happen on his own. Could he make bad things happen on his own? Absolutely.

Gunslinger. But he'd also make good things happen on his own. He had the skating ability and the drive and the power. The passing ability. All of it. Yeah. Right?

And you lost that. And you brought in Heedle as a replacement who's a three C on a good team and a two C on a bad team. Maybe he's got another level to get to, but it's going to take a while, I think. Pedersen was that guy and he's being paid like a top 15, top 10, top five center in the league. And he's not playing like it.

He's playing like Guy Carboneau. Uh, tire man Shane texted into the Dunbar lumber text line. And I know Guy Carboneau is a hall of fame, I'm just talking about the defense over. Anyway, go on. And, uh, if you want to text into the Dunbar Lumber Text Line. And I know Guy Carboneau is a Hall of Famer, I'm just talking about the defense over, anyway, go on. And if you want to text into the Dunbar Lumber Text Line 650-650, Metro Vancouver's trusted

choice for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years, visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dunbarlumber.com. He goes, when are you going to start ripping management for signing Pedersen? Kind of a big mistake. I was going down that road. I think that's completely fair.

Yeah, the first half hour. They own it. They own this contract and you can say, well, they couldn't have known that this was going to happen. There were some red flags out there for sure. There were some red flags that maybe this isn't the guy you want to tie it all to and give this big contract. Now, he's also extremely talented and it's really hard to find talent like Ilyas Pettersson.

So, certainly when the contract was signed, I wasn't sitting up here and I didn't have the guts to say, wow, it's a huge mistake, it'll bury this team forever, right? I didn't say it. I was like, no, we'll see how it works out. Um, and, um, right now you're looking at a scenario where the Canucks under this management group could go from Elias Pedersen, JT Miller, and Bo Horvat down in the middle to none of those guys. And I don't know how they're going to fix this top six because in some ways they've

robbed Peter to pay Paul in order to fix a defense that needed to be fixed. Um, you know, JT Miller bringing in a guy like Marcus Pedersen. Um, and in the interview that Jim Rutherford did with the Globe and Mail and that was all about the rift and that was kind of coming clean to the public. Like, yeah, this is a thing and it's a problem.

Like it ain't a rumor, it's a problem. And we're probably going to have to trade one or two guys here. Rutherford said, if we were going to completely start over and he means like basically tank, sell off everything, that means Quinn Hughes would be gone. And we'd like to figure out a way that he's here forever. So we'll have to do the best that we can with trades.

Whatever assets you get in return, you may turn them into something else. And we have to work our way back into being a contending team. can with trades, whatever assets you get in return, you may turn them into something else. And we have to work our way back into being a contending team. So the translation is they will not be rebuilding this team through the draft. They will not be tearing it down and acquiring futures and going, well, it's going to be hard for a bit because they know that Quinn Hughes

will be like, well, I'm not staying around for that. I'm writing my prime. I'm playing the best hockey in my career. I'm, I'm the ability to become an unrestricted free agent two years, get me out of here. You can get more draft picks and futures for whatever you're doing, right? If they get futures back in trade, they're going

to look to use those futures to get NHL ready players. Right away. Just like they did when they traded Bo Horvath and they used the futures to get Hronik, just like they did when they traded JT Miller and they used part of that to get, well, they got a player in Phillip Heidel, who's an NHL ready player, not

quite at the level of JT Miller, but they're hoping he can be. And then they used the future part of it, which was the draft pick, the first round draft pick, and they brought on Marcus can be. And then they use the future part of it, which was the draft pick, the first round draft pick, and they brought on Marcus Pedersen and signed him. So that is, I assume, what they're going to try and do if they trade better and they get a first round

draft pick at the trade deadline, turn that into something NHL ready. Right away. And maybe go into free agency and try to find a winner because of all the positions to find in free agency, winger is the one that you can do. They were able to find Jake DeBrasque, maybe they can find another winger like him.

Yeah. Right. And if they trade Pedersen, even if it's not, like you're going to, it's going to be really hard to be like, you know, the hard thing to do is like, we've got this center, but we need a center back because the team will be like, well, the reason we're looking for a center is because we don't have enough centers. Yeah.

Like, I can't give you a center back. So I could easily see it being something like if they trade Pedersen or maybe if they trade anyone, like they could trade Garland. He might have value right now, who knows? But they got it, but they're going to, if they get futures back, then they'll flip them into something else. Now, that's a lot easier said than done just to do it. They have done it though. But I think that's what they're going to find. I think the toughest thing for them right now is that again, they've gone from this group of Pedersen, Miller and Horvat down the middle and everyone's like, wow, not many teams with center depth like that, not to mention the talent there.

And you're looking at it where you're like, you know, Pews suitor's a pending UFA. What do they have down the middle right now? A really badly struggling Pedersen, Hedl who hopefully has a lot more room to grow, Pugh Souter, they may not be able to afford. They might flip him at the deadline. And they got nothing on the farm.

This is a very, very tough position. So to bring it back to tire man Shane's comment, when are you going to start ripping management? I thought we already did. Well, I think- By extension through all this stuff, like bringing up these problems is like, Hey guys, this isn't trending very well, is it? Yeah.

This is a self-inflicted blow from the management group, as far as I'm concerned. Um, I think that the moment, and I, again, I don't want to, I don't wanna couch every criticism of anyone with like the other side of the glass half full part, but they wanted clarity on Pedersen, and I get that part of it. What I don't get is how they went from,

we're unsure if the player wants to be here or not, and we're unsure if we're willing to move him or not, and we're unsure if we're willing to move them or not, to we're gonna make the biggest financial obligation in the 50 plus years of Vancouver Canucks hockey to this guy. It seemed like it went, there were such extremes on the table. And that to me is either overplaying your hand

or forcing a situation that is delicate and it is just absolutely mushroom clouded on the management group. Because they are in, here's the other thing, is that from a trade perspective, they have virtually zero leverage and not a lot of negotiating power. Everyone knows the bind and the jam

that the Vancouver Canucks are in right now. There's 31 other general managers in the NHL that know that this franchise is floundering and that they've got a guy who's making egregious sums of money that's playing well below market value. When you said distressed asset earlier in the show, people want to pay very little for that's the part of the distressed assets.

I'm gonna get this for pennies on the dollar. And I get that Rutherford has come out and said, we might take an L in these trades at face value and then we'll have to kind of move things around. But we already saw, we've seen right now what taking a loss in the JT Miller trade looks like, you're an inferior product at forward. You lost an incredible amount of scoring punch. I mean, I knew that they were going to take a hit offensively when they traded Miller.

I did not think it was going to look, and maybe this is me being naive. I did not think it was going to look as bad as it did, especially on Sunday in Utah. We got a text in, unsigned text, if Petey had scored on the breakaway, the talk this morning would be about his goal and primary assist and he is back. Yeah, but he didn't score on the breakaway. In fact, he didn't even come close to scoring

on the breakaway. He did not look confidence. There was no, there was no, um, headfake. There was no shiftiness. It was just a guy with the puck and he moved in and he missed the net. Like that's what we're talking about. If my aunt had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

Yeah. You know, it's like, well, if he had scored there, it would have all been different. But he didn't. And he showed, I thought a lack of confidence, a lack of, um, you know, dynamism on that. Like he just, he's just like skating straight in. Let's say that.

Let's also, cause I think a lot of, and this happened overnight, the game ended late in Utah. And then it was a Sunday night game. So everyone's deadlines, things went to print and went online late. So this is an overnight story that just kind of happened. Rick Tocket, after his post-game media availability last night with reporters when the cameras are on,

the cameras were off, and then Ian McIntyre of Sportsnet, and it's up now on Sportsnet.ca, and if you want to go to my Twitter, MikeAlford604, I've screen grabbed it for everyone to see. Tocket took specific aim at Elias Pedersen and what's ailing his game right now and how he was not happy with the way that Pedersen played in Utah on Sunday night. So this isn't, some people have actually like Feathing Fish Dancer texted in earlier is like why all of a sudden is there this new found zeal for going after Pedersen? That's

not it. I'm trying to do our best as a show to reflect what the coach said yesterday and really one of the rare times where the coach took direct aim and very specific critiques of what's going on with Pedersen's game. So it's out there and I don't know if it marks like a real significant turning point or something that's fundamentally gonna alter the course of the season. It's just a sign that the frustrations are boiling over and things aren't getting better.

We go back to that narrative of, well, this'll fix it. Well, this'll make it better. I mean, post Miller trade, I don't think you could point to anything tangible that says that this has gotten significantly better. Clearing JT Miller out of the room has not fixed number 40. I think that's fair to say. And I think that's why, um, when Jim Rutherford had that interview with Gary Mason and the Globe and Mail,

he did say like, he kind of alluded to the fact like, this is broken, broken. This isn't that, you know, it's, we're going to be able to fix this and maybe just one goes and all of a sudden it's solved. It could be both. And that's we're gonna be able to fix this and maybe just one goes and all of a sudden it's solved. It could be both. And that's why I just, I look at this now, I'm like, they are probably going to have to accept the fact that they made an egregious error

when they signed him to the deal and now he's gonna have to move elsewhere. Cause you can't really keep going like this. You can't, you can't keep. It's ugly. It's really ugly. You can't keep, well, you can't, you can't also expect

Tocket to dance around the issue at hand. But he needs to be moving his feet, right? Dance like this, we need some dancing. I'm dancing. I can move my feet. Look, I'm opening up passing lanes. You can't have him constantly duck and dive out of the way of criticizing his highest paid player.

And on nights where, again, how many times have we said this, Hughes is in the lineup because he's hurt. You have two catalysts theoretically on the team. One's injured and out. The other one not only needs to, you know, catalyze, but he needs to do even more in the

absence of his running mate. And it's not happening. Maybe someone took his catalytic converter. Possibly. It is a problem in Vancouver. It is a problem. All right, Halford, I know you've prepped a bunch of NHL stories, so we should talk about maybe

the rest of the league. We've got another open segment on the other side. So we'll talk other NHL, including Ovi getting a hat trick last night, getting closer to Wayne Gretzky's record. But if you want to text into the show with any questions or comments, Dunbar Lumber text line, 650-650. Kevin Woodley is going to join us.

Drance is going to join us. Drance was at the games over the weekend and with Kevin Woodley, what a great time to talk to him because Artur Silov's I think was the biggest at the games over the weekend and with Kevin Woodley, what a great time to talk to him because Ardur Siloves, I think was the biggest positive for me last night's game. He looked pretty solid. And Kevin Lankenen also just got a big five year

deal and we'll see what that means for Thatcher Demko, who is back on IR. You're listening to the Alfred and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650.