Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Canucks Need Another Folk Hero

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with Vancouver Sun Province Canucks beat writer Patrick Johnston (1:19) about his new book on Gino Odjick, "Gino: The Fighting Spirit of Gino Odjick", plus they preview Saturday's Seahawks playoff action versus the 49ers with ESPN's Brady Henderson (25:34). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Happy Thursday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet, 650. Halford Brub of the morning is bratsy by Sands and Associates. Score a debt freedom hatrick. One, no more interest. Two, much lower payments and three, financial peace of mind. Visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour two of the program.

Patrick Johnson from the province is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two is brought to by Jason hominock at Jason da mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason. Dot mortgage. Thrash Thursday for Jason. It is.

The most metal of mortgage brokers. All the mortgage brokers. Nobody does it with more metal. We're coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Make 2026 your year to move better and step stronger with Kintech custom orthotics. Our next guest is a Canucks writer for the province and a noted author as well.

Patrick Johnson joins us now in the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Peach. How you doing? I'm good, boys. I enjoyed the thrash metal that just absolutely made no sense on my phone, this tiny, teeny little speaker. I had no idea what was going on, but I'm glad to be here. 7 o'clock in the morning, no better time than to fire up some thrash metal on a Thursday. Hey, congrats on the book.

Thanks, boys. It's having co-authored one once. It is a very long and arduous task, but I am very glad that you were able to see this one through, and it's a great story. Gino, the fighting spirit of Gino Ojik. What was the initial inspiration or spark behind taking on this project, Patrick?

Well, I mean, it is all on Peter, my co-author. And, you know, obviously he was as close to Gino as anyone. And, yeah, I mean,

I got no Peter a little bit over the years. Just obviously, you know, when you interviewed Gino, Peter, it sort of helped, you know, be the guy that you'd coordinate with. And then, yeah, when, when Dino died,

I talked to Peter and, you know, it was quite the emotional moment there. And, you know, kept in touch and he followed up, I don't know, whatever, it would have been October of 2023. And we started talking about the ideas and said, would you be addressing write the book? And I was kind of blown away. I mean, it's something I've always thought about doing, but certainly never imagined it would be a guy that, you know, we all grew up watching. And that was sort of a local hero the way he was. But that's how these books often happen.

And, yeah, within, you know, June 20, 24, we're off to the races. So, yeah, it was a fun wild ride, and I'm certainly glad we took it. So how did you approach the book? Because Gino is a, he's a sports hero in Vancouver, in British Columbia, and a lot of parts of Canada as well. But like all of us, you know, he didn't throw a perfect game in life. So how do you approach that when you're taking on a sports hero like Gino Ojic? Well, I mean, I still remember the meeting I had with Peter and Gino's sister, Dina, who was so, sort of so important to us to help guide us through this and, you know, support us.

Like, we wouldn't have done it without her support, that's for sure, and a couple of kids. It was, I sat down and I said, listen, guys, like, I think, I know that Gino wasn't perfect, like, none of us are. But I think he matters. And I think he's a story worth telling. And I don't think he'd be sitting here if you didn't. think is it was a story worth telling. And I, you know,

I hope you can sort of trust me that, that, when sort of uncomfortable things come up, and obviously I knew at that point, you know, he'd had a bunch of kids with a bunch of moms and, you know, and then,

you know, I knew that he was friends with a lot of people. And, and they were, they, that was absolutely what Dino was certainly helping for. Peter was looking for. And I,

you know, there were moments that Peter and I held. They're difficult moments. Like, Gino spent some time hanging out, hang out of some not great guys. But the overall, as I went through the story, what really stood out

was how much people loved this guy. Like, whether it was his teammates, you know, every single teammate I talked to. You know, Stan Seale couldn't have been more eager to talk about Gino, OJek, Jeff Cortinol, you know, Cliff Ronnie, Trevor Lyndon, like,

these are all guys I talked to. Donald Adap, you know, just the love that people had for this guy was amazing. And, you know, it doesn't necessarily of the bitter sweet thing for me, Pover's experience. But for me,

you know, this is someone I would have liked to have known better. And certainly, you know, you look back at what he was like

as a player here at Vancouver in the 90s. You know, I talked to Tony Gallagher and Ed Willis and Jim Jameson and all, you know, all the reporters at the time, they all talked about just,

how what a great, you know, it was a great quote, but just an interesting person who slowly sort of, you know, the classic revealed the onion of himself. You know, I think we,

we revealed a lot of that and at the end of the day, Gina said it, said, my brother lives forever. She said, thank you for doing this. It's difficult some parts might have been. And so that was, it was quite the journey,

quite a fascinating journey, a wonderful story. And again, like I said, wish he'd been around to tell it himself, but I think he did him proud. How much of this is also a representation of a snapshot in time that, I mean,

let's be honest, we'll never be replicated for a multitude of reasons, the role of the enforcer in the National Hockey League, where Gino came from, where he went. And also, I think the Canucks organizationally and what they meant to the community has changed a lot as well.

Like, you don't get folk heroes like Gino in the same fashion. I'm not saying they don't exist anymore, but that was very much... It'd be nice to have one. Yeah, honestly, I don't disagree. I don't disagree with that at all. Like, those players matter. Folk heroes are different now than what they were in the past, but that is very much a snapshot in time. Well, yeah, you joke about the reboot. But, I mean, really,

if you think about it, I mean, that is, I mean, There was nothing there, but that is what Pat Quinn had to do, right. And you're absolutely right, Mike. Like, part of me when we were in the middle of it, I was like, well, shoot, this is kind of almost half a Connox History book. You know, and at one point my editor, Brian Taylor, who was a wonderful guy to work with him. He used to be at the Georgia Strait. Like, Brian, I said, wait, is this a Gino book or is this a Kinex history book? Because it's supposed to be a Gino book. And I said, you're absolutely right. And, you know, so we just reshifted it. But Gino played such a huge role in the development of this franchise, not just the, team, but like a franchise.

You know, there are 8,000, 7,000 people coming to Canucks games and Paclin takes over. And it's a small team, it's not a very good team. You know, they've got, they did have Craig Cox's, you know, at the time, you know, go find a video of them fighting and Bob Brover. Like, that was a thing. But there's evolution here. Like, this is kind of wanting guys.

Like, Clinton coached in Philly and wanted, the thing that's forgotten about the Broad Street Bullies, those guys could all play, right? Like, they could all, like, they weren't just guys that just dragged their knuckles. but there was sort of this movement in the mid-80s where you're starting to get guys who can just drag their knuckles, but he looks like Bob Probert

or Martin McSorily and so these guys can play. I want a tough guy who can play. And that was the thing with Gino that he wasn't just a sort of wild, you know, we remember sort of some of the wild crazy moment, but, you know, the penalty shot goal, the score at the beginning of 91 season against the flames. Like, like, which was a huge moment

and Trevor and I talked a lot about. I put it to Trevor, I said, listen, you know, everyone loves talking with that trade, the 91 March 91 train that brings in Rodney and Cortnell, Mesa and Robert Dirk. And that obviously built up the depth of the team and added some elements the team didn't have. But I said, I said, I really, the more I thought about this

is that Gino is the guy that turns the page on everything and gets this team moving forward into the direction that Quinn wanted. It's him that's the beginning of the era, not those other guys, not even Trevor. And Trevor said, you're absolutely right. That Gino was this guy that pushed

the organization in a fun, energetic, aggressive direction and really framed what the team was going to be. It comes in November 1990. The team that missed the playoffs the year before is not playing very well.

And, you know, that whole season becomes a sort of a makeover of the team. And so, yeah, Gino becomes the sort of, you know, this avatar of this change in the organization and in many ways the leading guy. And then, you know, you look at the way things kind of ended. Obviously, Mike Keenan comes in. And then it was like, let's be real. It was a team that sort of passed and sell by date and they start changing it up.

And the way it happened was painful and difficult. And Geno stood up, like, along the way. Like at one point, Keenan was Reagan on Pac-Win and Gino stood up. And I think this is a story many of heard. But, you know, we got into that. It was that Jesus stood up and said, no, you don't speak about something. You can call me any means you want to be, but people I care about, you don't rag on them. And he sort of stood up for what he thought was right and what the Kinnock meant.

And obviously was gone not long after that. And his life carried on and, you know, the book evolved. And that's the other thing about the book. The first third is about hockey and the second two-thirds of about the rest of his life. And that was the thing that we really wanted to get into here. It was just like, who was this guy? because I think people kind of underestimated in life a little bit of certainly when he was a player.

You know, there's the old, I open with the old story of him sitting on the bench and, you know, and they couldn't have seen it's January 91. It's literally, what, you know, 30, what, 35 years ago, like right now, in fact, in fact, it might be tomorrow. I think about it.

And Gino, elbows, stance, meil, and nods that there's a fan holding a sign in the crowd that said, you know, Gino's tougher than Saddam, and Gino goes, oh, which guy, which guy Saddam? He's joking about one of the Jets, right? And the time, the story, you know, got relayed against, you know, Gino's just this country bumpkin.

There was no idea that the same is. How does he not know what the news is? But the truth is Gino Neal. And that's what Stan said. He said, Gino Neal the whole time. You know, maybe he just played it up. And that was something he would do is, oh, I don't know too much. And then, of course, it turned out.

You know, this guy read the paper every day. You know, and then he knew what was going on. And I guess it's a statement too, I suppose, about where society has evolved. Like, you know, I mean, I used to laugh. When we were Rick talking, we'd love talking with the sports page. Well, do you know, you know, that's what these guys did. Like that, they were sitting there read the paper.

They may not know much, but they knew what was going on in the world. They weren't just staring at TikTok or whatever. And, you know, like, he was a person of this time. And you're absolutely right, like a bit of a character that we don't, maybe aren't going to see again. But that's certainly something that we definitely tried to hold up here. There was the connectiveness to the community as well throughout. Geno's post-playing career as well.

And, you know, I don't want to constantly use the current Canucks as a foil for all this. But when you're talking about history, when you're talking about history. It's true, though. It's true. The relationship has changed between the players and the community. And the NHL was a lot like smaller and folksier and all that stuff. But, I mean, I think that the values about being connected, and of course with the indigenous community, I think those values were something that Gene's,

no carried. I don't think I know. Post playing career and it meant something to him to be embraced by a market. And he gave back as much as the market gave him. And there was a great symmetry between the two. And it is lacking right now. I mean, I don't think that's me opining. I just think it's a different time. We don't have a ton of time here. So I do want to get into your latest article in your review with Jim Rutherford. But congratulations on the book. It's a great topic. And it's a book that I'm glad it was. written. Okay. So what was your main takeaway from your chat with Jim Rutherford? Because there's a lot of quotes going around and it's actually a little bit difficult to parse all of them. Well, I mean,

I think overall, like listen, the impetus was, you know, Darren Drager reporting that they're willing to talk even about PD. And so I just, you know, screen, this, Jim maybe 77 years old, but he knows how to use his phone, right? Like, I screen cap a quote as we all do. And I send her over and I just said, hey, can we talk about this? And he basically called me back almost right away and said, you know, obviously I'm not going to talk about opinions. I don't talk about players, but I will talk about sort of the general situation. And, yeah, you know, I mean, listen, I think if people have been paying attention, you know,

that there's been an ongoing dialogue between you and eyes, sort of in this sense, all season. And he recognizes, you know, when I ask the question, he thinks they're fair questions, and he gave me fair answers. So, you know, he said, listen, like, when we, as he said in the story, when we started this, the original idea was, okay, well, let's see how, what happens to start. And, you know, they had a few kind of players. Obviously, Keirut is still there. And I think, as everyone's noted, I think they, you know, I think they would like to get on with this. But, you know, there was an Andrew King, and then there was a couple injured guys.

You know, as he closed from the season, keeps circling the drain. Let's be real. You know, once they really realize, okay, you've got to move. We've moved on from Keynes. Okay, well, what are we going to do? Like, this team has constructed isn't good enough. Can we actually build it quickly? No.

Okay, the big picture. And to me, it was the two to three years. Listen, like, I don't know if they can actually do two to three years. But it's him saying, okay, it's going to take, it could take up to three years. And the fact that we have to be patient. And there's that, there's that quote in there. And it really stands up to me. And, you know, listen, should I've added fall out of it said,

are you talking with it? owner's sure, but he's also talked to elsewhere ownership's fully behind this. He already told me this before that ownership recommends where they're at. So, you know, this is him publicly declaring we are probably going to be pretty bad for a couple, for a while here,

right? We don't want to be bad for too long because we've looked at like Buffalo. You know, like there are, there are examples up there how they, as he said, shortcut, they would, you know, go sign someone. They'd want, they'd lose their mojo and go and sign someone that they didn't

really didn't need in the moment, which might cut off an opportunity for a younger, better player in the long term. So, you know, it's maintaining your focus. Now, is he going to be around for the whole project? That's a different question. That's a question for a different day. But for the time being, as he's advertised,

I'm like, okay, well, that's the plan. That's good. Now go do it. You know, like fans want to see. I think as you guys said, like, as long as keep your shirt here, there's still going to rebuild. And so that's kind of the task at hand now.

How can they actually move forward and move on from a bunch of these guys? Yeah, the key for sure would trade and trading whatever, you know, if you can move Evander Cain, Teddy Bluger. Those ones are just obvious, right? That's just obvious stuff. My focus still remains on some of these veterans with term. Do you get the sense that a few of these guys are going to be moved? And can you make any sort of prediction on who? Well, you know, I mean, one of the things I went back to, and I said, listen, like,

you know, when I first started talking about, I don't know if you saw the other year, I was talking about my colleague Brits Garriac from the Ottawa citizen. And, you know, he noted that, well, with him and Stu Cowanors, and I call it in Montreal, like that Steve Stales was watching the Canucks in Montreal, which, you know, okay, it's not that far. Like, it's an easy place to get to from Ottawa. But, like, come on. Like, they're playing them literally the next night.

So once we start a piecing that together, okay, what are the interest? And Bruce's like, well, I think they do need like a right shot defenseman. And I'm like, okay, well, can I accept a couple of those? But that would be bold. You know, that was in the back of my mind. And so I put it to Jim. I said, you know, like, you're talking about, I mean, I don't think you're talking

with Tyler Myers, right? Like, nobody thinks you guys would want to trade him. And I don't think he wants to go. And Jim basically didn't rule out anybody. He said, no, like, if the trade's right, like, you know, obviously we need veterans, some veteran guys, right? You do. Like, who can play.

Like that's the thing. Like, I didn't say don't sign J. Beagle, but I'm pretty sure he knows don't sign J. Beagle. Poor J. Beagle. Sorry, catching strays here. Anyway,

but you know what I mean, right? Like, they do need guys. And so like, that's where you like, he lives and came back and said, listen, all three of those veteran guys, like they're useful players.

And, but if somebody's interested, we have to listen. You know, so if someone calls him Deltronach, that means they're going to listen. If someone calls him,

Marcus Pederson, they're going to, They're going to listen. Pige, in your kind of ongoing chat and communications with Jim, is there any sense of like, oh, wow, we really screwed up in this? Because it seems to me that in a lot of these comments, it's like, well, you know, Quinn was going to leave anyway, which I don't buy, you know, if the Canucks had been in a much better position.

Like I don't see him. I don't see him leaving. So spin bothers me sometimes. And either it's spin or a lack of reflection or, you know, I don't know. Just any comments on that? Has there been any like, hey, maybe we've been going about this the wrong way type of reflection? You know what? I think that's a question for like once this starts evolving, that's certainly something I'm going to put to him directly.

I think there is, I certainly, he's recognized that, like, you know, he knows this is not what we plan. Like, the plan we'd pick had Peders and then Miller in the middle of it. And I think you're absolutely right. I'm not sure he leaves as quickly as he does. If, you know, that doesn't blow up quite the way it does, right? And they didn't expect it to blow up. You know, like, that was something that Rick Tuckett talked a lot about. He really, he was a big fan of Miller, but when he was a big fan of Miller, but when he was a

Hawke tells you Miller had to go. Like, that tells you everything. This was not, even if they knew they weren't, like, super tight, the way it blew up was not something they anticipated. Now, should they have? That is a question for another day, I think. And, you know, the Horbat choice, like, you know, that's something that's come up more than once when you talk to and listen around.

Like, there is that lament when, certainly when Talkin showed up, all three of those guys were there, right? when when when when when when when Rutherford showed up all three these guys you know that there was a really strong core of center centers here and and I still not sure there was a way to keep all three you know obviously they screwed things up with with Horvatt to begin with and sort of force their hand they're a little forced their own hand a little bit so you know but could they have all three could that have been a different scenario here and And certainly, you know, that path is hard not to think about because, you know, you talk about some of the character issues that have emerged since in terms of, you know, I've written more than once you go back to the criticism that Patrick LVee leveled at these guys when, you know, in his first end of season press conference in 2022 and saying these guys need to prepare better. Well, two of those three certainly, those centers certainly took that message eventually.

You know, Miller showed up last year in great shape. and was fired up and ready to go as he's ever been. Horvatt always Harvard's constantly making himself better. You know, PD has gotten better at that, but it took him a while. But, you know, if you'd found a way to kind of dial in with those guys, maybe this story's different, I don't know. You know, maybe the fatal choice was just trying to make it all happen with this core anyway. Maybe this core was just never going to do it,

and they had to come in and find that out. But listen, it's certainly the post-mortem questions are things worth looking at. You know, I don't, in my experience, having talked to Jim and asked him stuff like this, you know, when that time comes, I don't think he'll shy away from that. I'll be curious to hear what his explanation for it all is. You know, assuming they are able to actually do what they say. Like I said, if they don't do it, if they're able to do what they say, well, then we're a whole different story and that won't be very good.

One final one, Pige, before we let you go. How much longer do you think Jim Rutherford's going to be doing this for? I don't know. It's great question. I mean, he's always said as long as, you know, service health allows us. do it. I think he's going to. And yeah, I mean, I think, you know, he's you know, I think he's the same

age as my dad. And I think about that. My dad walks over the west side of Vancouver and is doing pretty well. And I actually kind of went back to work and was teaching one class a week at UBC. So like, you know, I mean, it's a bit like that. I think you'll use it until you lose it. And so the sort of level, I think Jim will probably keep working as long as he can. So and I think he likes it here. He certainly has a good relationship with ownership. He's got good relationships, I think, in the community.

You know, he knows people. I mean, the son's now off at Shattuck St. Mary, so they're not dealing with schools here. But, like, he is around and he's in the community. And, you know, he walks his dog. And, you know, I think he and his wife are pretty happy here. So, you know, as long as they're happy here and as long as he having his job, I think he's probably going to be here. I don't think he's, you know, I certainly know he's thought about the end,

but I don't think he sees it anytime soon right now. I lied. There's one more. Where can we get the book? Anywhere. It's on a ferry. People love finding them in a fairy. Nice. I spotted it in London drugs recently. Someone saw it at Tapeway. It's, you know, Indigo, all those retailers. You know, you can guide online. Greystone is the publisher. It's on our website there. Yeah, it's still available in lots and lots of places.

So read it. Hope you enjoy it. Please send me note. I'm happy to chat. We're really proud of what we did. It was a big story. not just about his hockey career, but his life as a indigenous leader, working with young people, you know, some of the health challenges. He had some really sort of quite fascinating, difficult health challenges. His life as a father, talked with a couple of his partners in life about the kids and a couple of kids. And, yeah, it really tried our best to try to create a full picture of this guy.

He was such a beloved figure in the city and, you know, made a real impact on, on Kinex fans of our vintage anyway. Congrats again, buddy. Well deserved, and thank you very much for doing this today. Take care, guys. See you, buddy. Patrick Johnson from the province here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650. We have now hit the midway point of the show

coming up on the other side of the break. Brady Henderson, our Seahawks insider from ESPN, is going to join us massive, massive game this Saturday. Classic NFC West rivalry playing out in the divisional round. starting to get a little nervous. Getting the goosebumps. Seahawks. It's nice to feel again.

It's so great. This is the biggest football game. I'm going to ask Brady. I'm probably more nervous for the Columbus game tonight, but, you know. Right. Because that's huge. In terms of stakes, it goes Columbus, Vancouver on a Thursday, random Thursday in January.

And then, of course, the NFC divisional round game between the Seahawks and the Niners Saturday. 5 o'clock. Brady Anderson is going to join us next. To talk about it, you're listening to the Halford-inbuff Show on SportsNet 650. It's Canucks Central on Sports. SportsNet 650. From exclusive interviews to insider scoops and post-game breakdowns, we've got it all.

Tune in weekdays 4 to 6 p.m. on radio and on demand through your favorite podcast app. Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. Halford Brubb of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. It's only a licensed insolvency trustee can get your debt by up to 80% with no roughfront fees. To learn more, visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. Still in Hour 2 of the program, Midway Point of the show, Brady Henderson.

Our Seahawks Insider from ESPN is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour 2 of this program is brought to by Jason hominick at Jason.orgage, the most metal of all the mortgage brokers. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you.

Visit them online at jason.orgage. We are now just two days away from the biggest game, biggest Seahawks game in Seattle, I'd say, in at least a decade. Seahawks 9. Here's 5 o'clock Saturday night, NFC divisional round.

Joining us now to break it all down and talk about all things, Seahawks. Our Seahawks, Insider from ESPN, Brady Henderson joins us now on the Halford and Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Good morning, Brady. How are you? What's up, fellas? I'm doing great.

What's going on? We're getting excited about the game, and we want to ask all kind of questions about the game. However, I do want to start with this article that you wrote, and it's a fantastic read. I encourage everyone to go to ESPN.com

and check it out. how the Seahawks started over at QB with Sam Darnold. This is a fantastic deep dive into that change from Gino Smith to Sam Darnold. And as John Schneider put it, the interesting series of events that went into this. I forgot that when they hired Clint Kubiak as the offensive coordinator in Seattle, Gino Smith was still the quarterback. I was reading an article about when he got

I were like, yeah, they were talking about him working with Gino. Well, things changed in a major way. Walk the listeners through the path that you took for this article, and what your big takeaway was from how the Seahawks started over at QB with Sam Darnold. Yeah, the big takeaway, and, you know, I don't even know if I totally got, you know, as into this as I could have in the story because, you know, you're limited by, you know, just kind of word counts and all that. But this was really not about the Seahawks thinking that they needed to find a more talented quarterback.

And I'll tell you this. I remember, you know, after they made that change, talking. to somebody high up in the organization who said, look, Sam is not as talented as Gino. Like, this was not about trying to find somebody who throws a better ball or who has a better arm or, you know, who was more mobile. Like, this was really about other things. And it was about, I think, primarily the personality. And, you know, as I got into in the story, look, Gino wanted a new contract a year earlier in 2024. and there was a contract squabble over that and things got kind of ugly

because he had seen a number of other quarterbacks get massive deals that were, you know, had an annual average that was twice his. And if you just look at total QBR, like he had a case for getting paid a lot more than what he was getting paid. At the same time, he was under contract for two more years, so it was a non-starter. And the Seahawks just had pretty serious reservations about not just the income consistency of his play, but the inconsistency of his demeanor and his leadership style. And that was, I think that that's the big takeaway is that the Seahawks, look, there was the interceptions,

the red zone picks. We all saw that. I think the bigger deal for them was he just wasn't the ideal leader for them. And by his own admission, Gino was a very hyper-competitive guy who a lot of times would let his emotions get the best of them. And a lot of people in that building will tell you that that got in the way of him endearing himself to teammates in the way that you want your leader to do. And as somebody put it to me, this is a direct quote, there was always something off with Gino as a leader. And so, you know, look, you can debate who's the more talented quarterback, Sam Darnold or Gino spent, but the reality is it really wasn't about that. It was about getting a guy who, you know, wanted to be there, first of all, who was seven years younger,

his contract ended up being a little bit cheaper than what it would have taken to resign Gino Smith and then the leadership aspect was a huge part of that. I'm glad you brought up the personality thing because I had a friend reach out to me the other day and he was talking about the work that Schneider has done in particular moving on from Gino Smith and D.K. Metcalfe. And those are two guys that I know this is with the benefit of hindsight and everything else, but they had particular personalities. I'll put it that way. And to see what Schneider was able to do to pivot off those two guys, to reimagine the offense, and then come back with a 14-win season, a first round by,

the first seed in the NFC. If you want to talk about executives maybe placing more value on the attitude and the approach rather than the actual talent, I think there's a textbook example from Schneider here about what you can accomplish when you do that. Yeah, and what you can accomplish when everybody is pulling in the same direction. I mean, look, is Cooper Cup at this stage of his career more talented than Gino's than D.K. Metcalf? Absolutely not. I mean, no, no. But is Cooper Cup a total team first guy who is going to make people around him better because he's so freaking smart and he applies himself and he gets in there? you know, say whatever,

5 and 30 in the morning, uh, to sit in with the quarterback meetings, to watch film and to pull guys along with him, uh, younger guys who, who, you know,

maybe don't totally understand what it means to be a pro. And he's, you know, imparting his knowledge as like a former triple crown Super Bowl winner. Like, that's the difference that we're talking about here. And, uh,

you know, there's not to like rag on D.K. Metcalf, but he was a talented guy who didn't bring, bring any of that other stuff to the table. And, you know, you throw in just kind of the selfish decisions that he made on the field at times. And like, this is what we're talking about. So, yeah, it's a good point that, you know, those moves made them either weren't talent upgrades or in the case of the receiver, like it was a clear drop-off in talent, and yet they're better off

in a big way for both of those moves. What's the relationship like between John Schneider and Mike McDonald. Yeah, I mean, I would have got to imagine it's really good. I know, like, from, you know, at least early on, when you know, McDonald was fresh in the building, like, I almost

got the sense that John Schneider had a man crush on Mike McDonald just because of all the, you know, all the just new things he was bringing. And look, like, Pete Carroll got fired or whatever you want to call it for a reason. And there was some things that, you know, I think

the organization had kind of grown tired of, just the way, like not running the tightest ship, I guess is the best way to put it. And when Mike McDonald comes in, he's running a pretty tight ship. And, you know, you'll, I remember seeing him in a training camp practice his first year, like, lay into a guy in a way that I'd never seen Pete Carroll do. And so, yeah, I think among many things that Mike McDonald has done well,

he has instilled kind of this a culture of more accountability than what the Seahawks had under Pete Carroll. We all know kind of the story of how Carroll operated was he gave players a lot of freedom and he felt like that was the way to get the most out of them. But the natural downside of that is that guys are a lot of times going to take more rope than you're really giving them as a head coach. And all of a sudden, like, it wasn't a culture of accountability. is the best way to put it.

So, yeah, I think McDonald and John Snyder have gone along well. You know, the whole Gino Smith quarterback swap, I think was a good example of the coach kind of taking a backseat and trusting John Snyder there. I mean, hopefully that came through in the story, that that was really John Snyder driving the bus on all of that. And McDonald was kind of along for the ride, and that was the case of a coach having to put his trust in a GM who,

who knows what he was doing, and ended up making two decisions that both worked out pretty well. I mean, the reason I ask about that is it does sound like they've got a great relationship, two peas in a pod that complement each other really well, and also to have the same philosophy about culture and leaving your ego at the door, et cetera, et cetera. The Seahawks finished 14 and 3. They won their last seven games, including that miraculous win over the Rams in week 16. And now they've had two weeks off, and it's been nothing but roses thrown at this team,

which maybe makes me a little bit worried. How can they avoid all of this blowing up in their faces and make sure that they get this win over the 49ers on Saturday? Yeah, Sam Darnold's got to play kind of the way he did in that week 18 game. And, yeah, he didn't throw a touchdown pass in that game, and he missed one on the opening drive. But he also didn't make costly mistakes. I think only the third time in 11 games that he did not turn the ball over. Now, we got away with one, you know, on that kind of weird play where he gets stepped on and he fumbles and Zach Charbonnet. Of course, Jack Charbonnet, because, you know, that's just what he does is make heads-up plays, but he fell on the ball.

So, but, you know, I'm not really the quarterback's fault there. My point is, you know, Sam Darnold wasn't the hero of that game, but he also wasn't the goat either, you know? Like, just it was a kind of game where your defense is playing so well, and your special teams actually wasn't that good in that game. But normally your special teams is statistically the best unit in the NFL, and you just got to make like three, four plays in that game and just don't screw it up. So, look, I think in this game, they have quite a few advantages, frankly. In that game, you know, that was a 10-point win, a 13-10 win that really felt more like a two-touchdown win, just with how much the. They controlled the ball, how well they moved it, and how well their defense stopped, the hottest offense in the NFL. So, look, I think if all is equal, right, and if the 49ers have all their guys and they don't have all those disastrous injuries in, both of these teams are playing on an equal amount of rest, and it's like a neutral site game, this game to me is a coin flip.

but in the world that we live in, the Seahawks have a number of pretty significant advantages, one being that the 49ers are pretty depleted on defense. They are playing on, what, four and a half days rest, whereas the Seahawks are coming off a buy, and it's in Seattle, by the way, in a stadium that is going to be an absolute madhouse with fans in the stands for the first time in a playoff game in that stadium in nine years. So I'm not going to predict that this is going to be a blowout, but I just do not see the Seahawks losing this game. What did Mike McDonald say about having to face the 49ers

in essentially back-to-back games? Yeah, that is kind of a weird one. And, you know, look, the 49ers, I think they are going to have to change some things up offensively just because they got absolutely nothing going in that game. And what that is, I don't know, because it's easier said than done against this defense. But you've got to imagine that, you know, one of the best offensive minds in football in Kyle Shanahan is going to, is going to come up with some other game playing. Because clearly that game plan did not work.

And so I don't know what that looks like. You know, they are going to have Trent Williams back. I don't know if he's going to be at 100%, frankly. again, being a guy who's almost my age and having just played, you know, five days ago. But they're not going to have George Kittle. So I would imagine that at best those two things kind of cancel each other out. So I don't know what that game plan is going to look like. I mean, the Seahawks did such a good job of eliminating space in that game with how they tackle.

And, you know, that's an offense that just over the last few years, you know, There haven't been many other teams that are better than them at yards after the catch. And the Seahawks really neutralized them in that regard just because they flew to the ball and they did such a good job of tackling. And, you know, they will talk about how, you know, because they pursue the ball so well and they get so many defenders to the ball, like that allows that first guy to be more aggressive in his angles, knowing that, hey, if he doesn't make that tackle, the reinforcements are on the way. and that second or third guy is going to get it.

So I think that first game was a pretty good example of that. So what Kyle Shanahan does differently, I don't know, but he's got to find something because whatever he tried last time, that did not work. I know you alluded to this already, but I just want to reiterate it. This is the Seattle's going to host the first playoff game with fans in nine years, because obviously the last time they did it,

it was a closed-door scenario. I know Cooper Cup spoke about it, that, you know, it was an entirely different situation back there, and it wasn't the way the game was meant to be played. it was meant to have that decided home field advantage. I was trying to go back on football reference and think about this is the biggest game since when the Seahawks have hosted. And it's almost well over a decade. Is it not Brady?

Yeah, just any game in general. Boy, the biggest home game. I mean, the 2002 opener was big for other reasons. That was the Russell Wilson return. But that was week one. You're not talking about any sort of massive stakes like that. So, I mean, maybe, God, I want to say the 2020 finale when they had the playoffs on the line, but that was to go in as a wild card team.

So, yeah, I mean, it's been, I guess maybe that 2020, no, that was, yeah, no, to your point, I can't, up the top of my head, I can't think it was. They haven't been to the divisional round of the playoffs since 2019. That was on the road. I think you've got to go all the way back to the mid-2010s where they had a game of this magnitude. And it is all right in front of them. 2016, they hosted the Lions. Yeah.

Yeah. So it would be a decade, rough, because it's 2026 now. Yeah. Thomas Rawls, by the way, went off in that game. That just shows you Matt Stafford was playing on the other side. It was Century Linkfield, not limited field. That just goes to show how long ago that was. Oh, that's amazing.

Yeah, and, you know, I get what you're saying about the 49ers sort of limping into this thing. And, you know, that game against Philadelphia, like they won it, and they went on the road, and they put forth a pretty gutsy performance. Like they have all year, but it took a trick play to get them in the end zone. And a nice drive from Brock Purdy, which honestly kind of salvaged his game, if not for that game-winning drive where he put the ball into Christian McCaffrey's hands in the end zone. You're talking about a game where he gets picked off twice on the road and doesn't attribute anything to the passing game.

Like Joanne Jennings was having a better passing game than Purdy at that point. I'll be very curious to see on a short week going into a well-rested and frenzied atmosphere in Seattle, how it plays out. But whatever the case, it's going to be a lot of fun on Saturday. Brady, with that, we'll let you go. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this today. We appreciate it. I don't need to tell you to enjoy the game on Saturday, but let's hope the Seahawks get a win. And then we're bringing you on next week for an NFC championship preview.

I've got a feeling we will be talking next week about that. Yep, sounds good, guys. Thank you. I love your confidence, Brady. Thanks, buddy. Brady Henderson, ESPN, Seahawks Insider here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. They got to win this game. He's never done that on our show before.

Howley he's ever done that on our show before? He seems very confident. So Saturday is going to be a fun sports day. You get bills and Broncos at 1.30. I mean, Buffalo is a very compelling team, but they're one and a half point dogs hitting into Denver to play a very good defense. and this is going to be another stadium that's going to be super fired up

to host a game of this nature and then the 49ers and the Seahawks at 5 o'clock it's also hockey day in Canada on Saturday if you ever want to see Ron McLean in Moncton I've always wanted to for example right and you've got the Canuckson Oilers

and that's kicking off this eight-game homestand and it's kicking it off against a team that I certainly don't think is perfect, but a team that has Connor McDavid who's on a 20-game point street by the way

Connor McDavid and Connor McDavid and Connor McDavid and Connor McDavid and the Kinnock side, I don't know if you've noticed this at all but they've been a little shaky defensively at times. What? Yeah, hardly. Kind of get running around a little bit and if there's one guy you definitely want to run around against, it's Connor

McDavid. Hey look, they have run around better than any of you guys. They held the powerhouse Ottawa Senators to a mere two goals the other game. And 40 shots. Yeah. So, I mean, you tell me who's doing better than the Canucks, other than every other team in the NHL. Someone texted in and said, what a

what a gift for the Ottawa senators getting the Canucks and the Rangers. Back to back. You had like, that was like a little mini tournament between three kind of dysfunctional teams, the senators, the Canucks, and the Rangers. I bet every other NHL team is looking at their schedule and like, can we get that back to back go to Vancouver.

And the game has to be in New York. The game has to be in New York. You know what, as we pivot onto this, that's another part about that game last night is that the senators played at home the night before. I had to travel overnight. It's not even the second of a back-to-back at home. Like they played a home and then they had to go on the road.

I know it's not a huge travel. It's still travel, man. It's still travel. And you're going to MSG where the Rangers hadn't played since losing to the Cracken. It's a crazy result to go down 6-0 at home. to that team in that scenario. Did you see the start of the third period

on all the people that had just left? Yeah. It was just empty seats. They boot them off the ice after the end of the first period. Then they were like, should we get out of here? Someone told me that they flipped the game

over to MSG 2, that it was originally on the MSG network proper. And then they were like, in the third period, they just kicked it over to MS. What did they have like a replay of a next game or something? Anything.

Dog show, they could have done anything. Poker, doesn't matter. Just anything other than that at the end of that game. Loud Titans fan. I wonder if, James Dolan is going to change his mind because he gave Chris Drury a vote of confidence and said, you know. The vote of confidence is often the first thing that leads to the firing. That's the worst thing that can happen to you.

That is true. Yeah, that's a kiss of death. That's true. But I think it was a genuine vote of confidence. But I also wonder how much James Dolan actually watches the Rangers. Just to jump in here on the football tip for a sec. You said that the bills are now underdogs in that game because the lines moved, right? Denver minus one and nine.

Loud Titans fan texted in. Josh Allen underdog against Bo Nix with a laughing face emoji. Nick's plays like he took eight Adderall before kickoff. I'll say this. So he's dialed. Yeah, maybe a little too dialed. That line did open though. I am zeroed in, guys.

I'm ready to throw some interceptions. I just read 10 bucks. Seriously, though. Like the bills opened as favorites in that game. I remember. I don't know the line. No, I have to trust. But remember I came in, we did the show on Monday and I was like,

I don't like that dynamic where Denver is an underdog going into this game because they're going to play the, you know, no one respects us. And we're the number one seat in the AFC and we're a dog in our first game at home. So I guess a bunch of money came in and that lines moved in the other direction. For Buffalo, and I know that it's hard to say that any Buffalo Bill's team will be disappointed in light of what that organization has gone through. But this would be a massive, massive letdown and disappointment if this is the year that Josh Allen doesn't get to go to a Super Bowl.

But you have to win three straight games on the road to get there. That's hard. Is it harder, though, than having to get through an AFC playoff that has Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson in it? Yeah, that's a good debate. Yeah, it's a great debate because going on the road and winning three games is tough. But it's not like they dominated in Jacksonville. No.

They got through it. They got through it. They got through it. I'll say that. And if- Well, they did. That's why they're allowed to play this week. If the, like, but I mean, like, not in terms of the actual score.

Like, that was a, that was a grind. And I didn't think the bills played great. It's going to be a grind against Broncos. Yeah. I wonder if the Broncos can put up enough points on offense to win this one. Interestingly, if, let's say hypothetically, it's a Bill's Patriots AFC title game. Okay? Mm-hmm.

And it's played in really frosty, frigid conditions in New England. I actually think that favors the bill. I think the Denver game, if it's either going to Denver or going to New England, I think this game might be the tougher one. I agree. If you get a Patriots team with Drake May who like to zip the ball around in tough, frigid, cold conditions, I definitely think it favors a Bill's team that can run the ball with James Cook and with Josh Allen with his feet. What if it's Buffalo Houston? I want to know, and I'm sorry. Texas defense is legit.

Yeah, I just don't, I don't care about them. No, I don't care about them. They're a very uninteresting franchise to me. They're definitely going to beat the Seahawks in the Super Bowl now. It was hilarious when they showed Cal McNair on the sidelines. He looks like he owns a furniture store, like a chain of very successful furniture stores. Anyway, we got to go to break. We got one final hour to go on the Halford & Brough show.

Cal McNair, that's the name I haven't heard. That's who it is, right? It's Cal McNair. That's the owner. Yeah. It's not Bob McNair anymore. I think he's dead. I should fact.

this. I'll do it at the break. You're listening to the Alford Abrupt Show on Sportsnet, 650.