Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Fans Want A Rebuild

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they discuss a disappointing Canucks home shutout loss to the Red Wings (3:00), plus the boys hear from the fans on how they feel about the team (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to Halford and Brough And the horn sounds to bring it end To a forgettable night for the Vancouver Canucks And here come the pretzel Beyond embarrassing. Furt's again to throw. Middle of the field. High intercepted.

Tam Hart has it. Ultimately, it's a play that I didn't make. Good morning, Vancouver, 6 o'clock on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody. It is Halford. It is Brough. It is SportsNet 650. We are coming here live from the Kintech Studios

and beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adon, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Brough of the morning

is brought to you by Sands and a social. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks. Visit them online at Sands dash trustee.com. We are an hour one of the program. Hour 1 is brought to by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle. You get paid.

Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studio. Now's the time to maximize the benefits of custom orthotics before the year runs out. Visit kintech.net. Time now for the morning drive, brought to you by the Duick Auto Group. Find out by nobody beats a duik deal since 1926. Guestless today begins at 6.30. Eric Engels is going to join the program.

Montreal Canadian reporter for Sportsnet, but he's going to be joining us live on location from the NHL Board of Governors meetings in Colorado Springs. Colorado, lots happened on day one yesterday. I assume there'll be lots on the docket day two today. we'll ask everything that's going on at the NHL BOG with Eric Engels from SportsNet at 6.30. 7 o'clock, Greg Wischinski's going to join the program,

our NHL Insider from ESPN. Five games in the NHL last night, including the Canucks 4-0 lost to the Detroit Red Wings at Rogers Arena. 10 games in the NHL tonight. We'll go around the league for all the latest with Greg at 7 o'clock. At 8.10, Landon Ferraro is going to join the program. Canucks analyst right here on SportsNet. It was another ugly loss for the Vancouver Canucks last night.

This time, as mentioned, a 4-0-0 defeat to Detroit in front of the home crowd at Rogers Arena. We'll talk to Landon about what he saw or did not see last night. That's coming up at 8.10. Right before Landon this morning at 8 o'clock, we're going to do the latest iteration of Halford & Brough's 12 days of Christmas. Listen to us every day throughout December. The contest will run until December 16th for your chance to score an early Christmas present. We're giving away some very cool stuff, tickets to sporting events, restaurant gift cards. Yesterday we gave away a pizza party to AJ's pizza on East Broadway.

Caller number five at 8 a.m. this morning is going to win. Caller number 5, 604-280-650. That number again, 604-280-650. That's what's happening on the show today. It's the Deweck Morning Drive. Without further ado, Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No.

No. What happened? all the action because I'm... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed that? You miss that? What happened?

What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at BCCSA.ca.ca. It was John Gibson the hero last night. 37 saves for his first shutout as a Detroit Red Wing. And the Detroit Red Wing defeated your Vancouver Canucks 4. at Rogers Arena on Monday night.

Well, you mentioned the shots and the Canucks controlled that on the night, and the game actually started out somewhat encouragingly for the home team. I don't know if they were buzzing, but maybe humming. Maybe they're humming.

Buzz it? There's a buzz, right? We're buzzing. Like a poo after he was up for too long at the Quiky Mart like that? Just buzzing. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. That was buzzing.

Not humming. Not humming. They were a mix of both. They were buzzing. They were like, bumming is what you're saying, a buzz? They were buzzing and humming. I could go with bumming.

I could go with bumming. You're the one who brought a poo into it and so early in the morning. But a lack of finishing and maybe a bit of bad luck allowed the Red Wings to keep the game scoreless before capitalizing on some poor puck management and shaky defending from the Canucks.

Vancouver was without Elias Pedersen for the second straight game and the ongoing nightmare down the middle was a big factor in the loss, both defensively and offensively. Halford, I know you'll have some comments about Lankton as well. I'm not particularly interested in going back

and breaking down Detroit's goals for too long, but suffice to say there were some mistakes made. Drew O'Connor, who's not a center but his playing center, had a tough shift on Detroit's second goal and the Canucks didn't have a natural center out on their third goal either, which is incredible. Their first three goals that they surrendered all at five on five,

the Canucks had a natural center out for one of those goals and that was Atu-Ratoo. I wonder if there's a correlation between the two. Who actually made a bit of a mistake on that goal. Yeah, Garland, Kane, and Sherwood were the forwards on the ice for the third goal and that was the backbreaker, really. I guess it was the first goal

considering they couldn't score, but it looked like Garland was kind of sort of playing the center role on that one, and he left Nate Danielson all alone in front of Lankin to tip at home. I know some people were blaming Marcus Pedersen on that play, and he did chase away from the front of the net, but Garland was originally on Danielson. If you want to blame Garland, fine. If you want to blame, you know, Pederson, that's fine, too. Who cares, really? There was a, you know, all that you need to know is that there was a glaring mix-up.

With two Canucks going to one guy and one guy being left alone. And then it was 3-0 and it was over because, you know, they couldn't score. And Lankanin was replaced by Tolo Pilo in the third. And it sounds like Adam Foote regretted his decision to start Lankton over Tolo Pilo. But he's also wondering, we are at the point right now where he doesn't want to overplay Tolo Pilo because he's not sure if Demko will indeed be back on Thursday, although he thinks that's possible. Yeah, if you overplay Tolapilo, he might not be fresh,

and you might not get the results you need to get out of 32nd place in the National Hockey League. One more thing of note about the game. There had been quite a bit of trade discussion involving, well, at least speculative, at least, involving the Red Wings and the Canucks. A few of the names that have been kicked around They all had productive nights for Detroit The young defenseman Axel Sandine Pelica I think he had two points

Marco Casper had a point And Nate Danielson we just talked about the goal that he scored In fact, each of them had a point on that goal There has been talked that Casper might get sent down to the HL So I'm not sure his stock is super high right now I think we all understand now that Casper was the guy that Elliot Friedman was hinting about when he brought up a potential Quinn Hughes trade with Detroit.

If we had been following the Red Wings on a day-to-day basis and there had been talk about like, what's going on with Casper? You know, because he actually had a pretty encouraging second half of last season. Yep. And this season, he's been a disappointment. And they were even talking about sending him down to the H.L.

for a reset because so I think that's obviously the guy because well he's not very good right now so they're fine with trading him and you know I'm watching these games and sometimes I'm upset

but sometimes I just kind of start laughing maniacally because David Kemp is there one C in these games? This is the guy that couldn't like eat he could not get a game for Toronto he's like I'm going to

like cancel my contract in Toronto because I think they did send them down to the HL. They tried to. They tried to. I'm not doing this. Yeah. And now he's like, he's the one C. He put himself out there saying, and by the way, he doesn't have points. He just can't, you can't produce offensive. He put himself out there saying, like, I'm going to see if I can find an opportunity. And the Vancouver Connect said, David, boy, do we have an opportunity for you. And it's the opportunity to be our

one C at times. And right away, not down. on the road. You won't have to wait very long. It's been it would be sad if it wasn't funny and it'd be funny if it wasn't sad. It's one of those kind of situations where the Canucks are at right now. So the centers last night. And they have been for the last two games with Pedersen

being out. Ratu, Camph, O'Connor. And Sasson. Yeah. That's not it. But it's also what... I don't know if those four are going to get it done. It's just one of the problems on the team. So when you're trying to talk about, you come in the morning and you try and figure out like what's going to be the talking point for the day.

And as you go along in this season, I've noticed this with the postgame show as well, it becomes increasingly difficult to break down the game as intricately as you might if the results mattered. When the results don't matter and let's be abundantly clear, they really don't right now. If the Canucks lose that game 1-0 or 6-5 or 4-0, it's all the same thing in the end. It's another loss in what's become a lost season. So it's harder to break those things down. So you start looking for some bigger picture things. One of the stories that I did notice in light of the fact that they got skunked 4-0 on home ice is that whatever they were going to write the wrongs of last year, which was a debacle at home, that's gone. Because they're equally as poor this year at on-home ice as they were last year.

You sent me a text last night. They're now 4-9-1 at home. That's four home wins. And we're at December 9th. Four home wins. So the only team that has fewer home wins than the Canucks is the New York Rangers, who you'll remember started the season and I guess continue the season comically at home.

Yeah, that was a big story. Infamously bad home run. Yeah, infamously bad and they couldn't score at Madison Square Garden. That's the only team that has fewer home wins than the Canucks. Canucks have not won consecutive home games at home since March, of last season, March 5th and 7. So it's been an awfully long time since you've seen the team take it. advantage consecutively at home.

So that's an issue. I also want to say, and I'm embarrassed to admit this on the air because I cover sports for a living and I cover the National Hockey League for a living, to give you an idea of how checked out, I had no idea that James Van Rien-Zyke played for Detroit. He's on fire right now. I had no idea. No idea. Did you know he was still in the league?

He scored last time. I'm like, was that his brother? And then I looked, I'm like, nope, that's James. Does he play for the flyers? He does not. I think he's not. I thought he played for the flyers. And then, so I dug into it, he has six goals in his last seven games.

He went like 17 games without scoring, which is maybe why I didn't know he was in the NHL anymore, let alone a member of the Detroit Red Wings. But it kind of underscores a lot of different things. I do want to focus back on what's going on at home, though, unless you've got a text you want to read. Well, this is, I'm going to read a text. Okay. Unsigned text.

How seriously do you think ownership is considering making a change? Have you heard anything interesting? Okay, I'll tell you that as a media guy, right now, I am hearing all sorts of rumors, and I don't know if any of them are true. And I think if there's one thing I'm pretty confident about, is that all sorts of options are getting disgust at Rogers Arena. Now, is there a major move before, Christmas? There are only six games until the break. Five of them on the road. Thursday's game

against Buffalo is their last home game before the Christmas break. At this point, nothing would surprise me. Obviously, the Quinn Hughes situation has been top of mind amidst all the various reports. And the message from a guy like Elliot Freeman is he's like, look, I don't know if they're going to pull the trigger on a move here, but this is going potentially quicker than I thought it might and potentially quicker than Quinn Hughes thought it might. So it's possible that he could be traded sooner rather than later. But here's the but.

Then you have to wonder if ownership might call an audible on that play. Like I could see a situation where management goes to ownership. and says, we've got a Quinn Hughes trade, and I think you're really going to like it. And then ownership goes, well, here's the thing. We've gotten to the point where you are bringing me

a Quinn Hughes trade. And that means you have failed. Yeah. So maybe they moved to replace the management team whose guidance helped bring us here. I suppose they could fire the coach, but at this point,

why even bother? and is there a situation where Jim Rutherford fires Alveen and gets to hire a new GM? Maybe. But the things that I'm hearing, if you want to ask what I'm hearing, I'm hearing, I get like a lot of cryptic texts

from people that are like, I can't say too much. Yeah. But, you know, this is maybe happening, which is not helpful at all. It's just kind of like, just tell me what you're thinking.

Well, I would not be there. Could all of those things happen then maybe? I don't know. Like new coach, new GM. Well, here, okay, well, I don't think that it's possible for Rutherford to fire Alvin and hire a new GM if Rutherford has already been fired. That's tough. So I don't think that's possible. That's extremely difficult to do.

So when you ask, if all those things happen, no. It would be funny if you tried, though. They just let you go before I go. I just have one thing I have to do. I would, it's very obvious that. They are in the mission critical part of the movie where someone stands up and there's like, there's no bad ideas here, guys, like all ideas on the table. We're not necessarily in fresh start territory, but we're close.

So anything that you've got, let's just get it out there. And no discussion is off limits. And inevitably, anytime you put that out there, everything's going to lead back to one thing, and that's Hughes, because he's the best player, he's the captain, he's the biggest prize, and he's going to fetch you the most in any sort of deal. looking back on the memo that Rutherford and Company sent out it was almost comical

because it's you can understand they're trying to stop the bleeding or stem the title of it they're like okay we'll make a concession that this year isn't going very well and we'll open up our coffers to move some of our unrestricted for agents and maybe some veteran players

and then all the other teams in the NHL just bypassed right over top of that glossed over that and they're like let's get to the huge part of this because that was the inevitable end to this conversation was, well, if you're entertaining the idea of potentially moving Sherwood and potentially moving Kane, that means you're blowing up this season. If you're blowing up this season, who else are you willing to move? And if you're willing to move anybody, let's talk about Quinn Hughes.

And that's where it's going to be. Again, I look at the calendar. It's December 9th. I don't know how many real or artificial deadlines are on the horizon, but every game that goes by, especially for an organization that I will remind you, has two count them two eight game homestands on the docket for 2026 that's a lot of games at home against a lot of checked out fans against a lot of empty seats where you can really you sound like trump really a lot of empty seats out there i mean i saw some last night yeah what do you think thursday against buffalo is going to be like man i i looked at ticket master you know how they got the blue dots and the red dots and the red dots are resale tickets so those six have already been sold, right? There's a lot of blue dots.

A lot of blue dots, right? It's blue dots central. And that's not good. And you've got a lot of home games. Like, I keep looking at those two eight game homestands in the year. I'm like, what are those going to look like? Yeah. If this is what it looks like now, what do those look like?

I don't foresee this team, even like kind of fluking their way into, like, have you even paid attention to Calgary the last little bit? Yeah, they won a few. Calgary seven, two, and one in their last 10. They've won three or four. They won last 10. be Buffalo. Buffalo is going to be in here on Thursday. I have a hard

time seeing the Kinex even putting together kind of one of those fluke runs like that where you get a goalie that goes on a heater or all of a sudden the goal start going in to get a lot of bounces and you get on a win streak. They have shown a complete inability to win more than one game in a row. I always pull up the

ESPN is great for the graphics because they have the big red L's when you lose and the fun little green Ws when you win. Not a lot of green Ws. There's a lot of red I was thinking yesterday about how our immediate response to anyone that says, you know, like we need to rebuild is, yes, they do, but also ownership has never indicated that they are willing to entertain a change in philosophy, you know, just a general change in like, you know, how we have that conversation. I'm like, is it, is it us? Like, are we making some mistakes?

Are we asking the wrong things of the people that we hire in management positions? Or are we being too impatient and giving them marching orders to get back into contention ASAP, even if the right way to get back into it in contention is to be a little more patient? Eventually something gets to the point where that question gets asked though, right? because I've obviously been following this team a long time and I've been doing it professionally for a while now I have never seen never never in my life seen the push for the rebuild like it is right now

because you have to imagine or you have to remember that even though some of the Jim Benning teams were worse than this one I think in my mind they were they would get Like, you know, they weren't outshooting anyone like the contacts did last night. They were there. There were some bad teams. They were horrible.

It was closer to the successful years. Yeah, it was on the heels of the happy times. It wasn't that far removed from almost winning the Stanley Cup. Now we are very, very far removed. And with the Buffalo Sabres coming in on Thursday, you know, you just got two really bad teams that have gone about things the wrong way. And I think Buffalo, I mean, Buffalo has tried to rebuild, but I think it's really unfair to look at what Buffalo has done and gone, look, these tear-down rebuilds don't work.

Like, they're one of the, they've got a terrible culture in Buffalo. They got a general manager who shouldn't be the general manager, an owner that's way more interested in the Buffalo bills. Like that, that, you seem like you want to say something. Yeah, I want to place, you're, well, you're setting it up perfectly. I don't know whether you're doing this intentionally or now, but that's a great chemistry, Halford and Bruff have. So yesterday, Buffalo's in Calgary.

They lose 7-4. And Eric Francis, during the intermission, went down the road you're talking about. I'll just let the audio speak for itself. It's about 35 seconds of, this is the home Calgary Flames broadcast, absolutely suering the visiting Buffalo Sabres, and they're continuously failed rebuild.

Here's Eric Francis, Sportsnet Flames reporter from last night's game. Flames beat Buffalo 7-4. Here's what he had to say at the intermission. You guys have been the poster boy for why you can't tear something down. That debate's been going on in this city for the last, well, a couple years now. And the point is always towards the Buffalo Sabres. You want to tear something down to the studs? Be careful because you could end up being the Buffalo Sabres.

And for 20 years, you're the worst team in hockey or they're about. So that's part of the ongoing argument. And we're seeing it firsthand tonight. This team's give a crap meter is almost shut off. They've got some talent. they've got some good pieces. So even though you go out and win a draft pick, like a Tage Thompson is a great player,

but without the team effort and the culture that's getting built, it means nothing. As long as Buffalo exists, unfortunately, they're always going to be the poster children for why you shouldn't do it. And of course they're having that debate in Calgary right now. And I think that's why Eric brought it up yesterday. Yeah, do you think?

While the savers were being torched by the flames. Are they not the exception to? the rule, though? Yes, they are 100%, which is why I wanted to play it. And I understand that they exist and I understand that they're real, and that you could end up being them. I like to think of the Sabres

as an example of a warning of a different thing. Not about the rebuild. They tore it down and they built poorly, and they made a bunch of mistakes. But that shouldn't really take away from the genesis of why you tear something down. Or you need to tear something down because it's not working. You have to start anew and you have to try something fresh. And you have to have the right crew there to build it back up, which clearly

they have not done in Buffalo. But all these NHL talking heads are missing the point with Buffalo. The point with Buffalo is you cannot take your market for granted. And you cannot take that the fans are always going to show up. Like the rebuild wasn't the problem. The inability to build it back up was the problem, right? And making clinical and catastrophic mistake after mistake after mistake, not having patience, not holding on to the right guys, all of that stuff is the reason that it's the most apathetic hockey market going right now. And I mean that like from the heights from which you fell. And that should be the warning call to Vancouver and every other team that starts to take its passionate fan base and a like a zealous hockey market

for granted. Everyone's not going to keep showing up. And everyone's not going to keep caring. is that some people aren't going to show up to the rink to boo they're not going to show up to the rink at all right and the buffalo savers where they're at right now is not the shining light to never tear it down and rebuild it's going through a funk so long and making catastrophic mistakes but then never really acknowledging that you've messed it up and just assuming that this passion and hockey base is going to stick around forever

that's what the buffalo savers are a warning of a few people texted in and said can you at least give us some clues about some of the cryptic text that you're getting? So you want me to give you clues about text that I'm not 100% sure I understand. Okay, fine, let's do it. One of them suggested that they are

suggesting. They are looking at a philosophical overhaul. A change in direction. But that requires investment. It requires investment in new management

and it requires an investment in maybe having a bunch of nights where you got empty seats and you know I think we might have that anyway on Thursday but the one thing that this connects team has been successful in doing and maybe it's some of you that's the problem because you're so gullible and you're so optimistic and you want the best for your team is that every year, a large majority of the fan base talks themselves into the team. And look at what people were talking themselves into this season. Adam Flett.

Quinn loves him. He does. I did. You know, change that vibe that that, that talk it had. You know, Petey. You know, there's no more JT. He's going to be back and Petey's been better. But, like, if he was, if Petey was, if Petey was.

a 10 out of 10 at his best level that we've seen him in Vancouver and he fell to like a 3 out of 10 he's like a 7 out of 10 now he's not back he's not in my mind he's not an elite 1C you know the goal tending

it's going to be great they got Dempco and Lankin together how many times did we hear best goalie tandem in the NHL and everyone was like we'll just ignore the blatant injury risks that Dempco comes with

and maybe the fact that Lankan came in he was desperate he played well and he got the contract but could you have been maybe fooled a little bit

on a short sample size credible defensive because it's not like this guy had been dominating in the NHL ever he'd had a few good stints here and there

and he was a good signing on a bargain contract but was he a guy he wanted to commit what $22 million to just think about all the

things that you've talked to yourselves into. And we've done it a little bit too. Like we've been like, I don't know, maybe, right? Maybe. I know, I don't have a crystal ball, but that is one thing that this Canucks team has been good at. You create that hope at the beginning of the season. You sell enough tickets in the off season that the building is full.

For them to go like, actually we are almost certainly going. to be bad next season is a risk, but I do wonder if it's a risk that they're getting closer and closer to being willing to take. This segment of the show was brought to you by Jan Pro from conference rooms to kitchenettes and everything in between Jan Pro keeps workplaces tidy, clean and disinfected for a free quote, visit them online at Janpro.ca. Coming up, Eric Engels, Sportsnet, Montreal reporter is going to join us from the NHL Board of Governors meetings. We'll talk to him about everything that went on on Monday and what's on the docket.

For Tuesday, you're listening to the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on SportsNet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. 6.34 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody, Halpert Brough, Sportsnet, 650. Halford and Rub of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Get out of the penalty box of debt and back into the game with a financial fresh start. This is them online at Sands-Trustee.com.

Still an hour one of the program. We are working on getting Eric Engels. Sportsnet, Montreal Canadiens reporter who's down in Colorado, Colorado Springs, Colorado, at the NHL Board of Governors meetings. We're hopeful to get them on the show in just a moment here. Would be the highlight hour one. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's Premier Metal Recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal.

North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We got a bunch of really good texts into the Dunbar Lumber text line. I'm going to read a few while we try and wait for while we wait for Eric. This one comes from Willie and he says Buffalo is not the exception or the only exception.

There are a few examples of any tear it down and succeed based off your own standard of state of success, Stanley Cup, serious contender. As many have stated, Bill Zito, the latest, you know, great general manager, you have to build through trades, free agency, and the draft you rarely can do most of it through the draft

no matter what you choose for the way you need to make great decisions over and over plus you need luck, great development, et cetera, et cetera. That's why Buffalo has failed. They've had some draft busts. They've also had some really good players. Yes. You know, look at some of the players are doing when they leave.

Sam Ranahart is one of the most clutched players in the NHL. He was on the sabres. Buffalo has drafted many good players. That's not the issue. It's everything after that. It's just everything else. And I would say the other thing is like making Buffalo a place where you want to play. Okay.

In Vancouver, they need to figure out things like a practice facility. That's what good organizations do. It's not the one thing that's keeping them from winning a Stanley Cup. They nearly won a Stanley Cup without a dedicated practice facility. but, you know, at that time, I think you could consider the Canucks one of the big spenders on other stuff, right, besides just salaries. Do we have Eric or are we waiting for them? Sleep doctor.

No, okay. Here's another one. This one comes in from Detroit, Brian. Detroit is eight years, no playoffs. All these so-called fans can say they support a rebuild, but be honest, this franchise would lose mass money with eight years of futility, and Detroit has great management and owners. Careful what you wish for because these fans lie and would not support a rebuild and you saw it after the Stanley Cup run, ticket sales plummeted because the only support the connects when they win and that's not a true sports fan.

Every year team suck in every sport. I don't think anyone that thinks about this in a serious way thinks that having an intentional rebuild like a hard reset doesn't come with risks. nobody thinks that way well some do no I said people that think about it in a serious way like serious thinkers because fans are a bit like

fans are a bit like kids you know whenever you're like talking to a kid and you're like you're like okay I'm gonna let you do this thing now but when it's over when the fun part is over you've promised me

that you're going to do the not fun part, right? You know, like before bed? Sure. Like, why don't you brush your teeth now? Like, no, I want to watch 20 more minutes on my iPad. And you're like, okay.

When 20 minutes is up, I'm going to say toothbrushing time. How often, in your experience, Halford, is the 20 minutes up? And then they're like, okay, I'm happy to brush my teeth now. As soon as you mentioned, it's like the first time you ever

mentioned brushing your teeth. You never said that. Just one more, just one more, right? Like, they lie. And fans are like that. It's easy, it's easy right now. The point is it's easy for the kids to commit to brushing their teeth because they're liars and they have no morals.

Yeah. It's easy for the fan base to be like, you know, actually, I would be excited to watch a rebuild. I'd love to go and watch, you know, some young players. Oh, yeah. Okay. We're going to do this then. Do you promise? Because it might take three, four.

or five years and that's a long time. And that's a, that's a healthy, that's, that's, you know, that's five percent maybe of your life. Yep, that you're going to dedicate to this. You're going to, you're definitely going to do it, right? Definitely going to do it. I, the issue that I have with, they should have with like going back and forth about whether you should or

whether you shouldn't, is that I, like, for those that want to either maintain the status quote, and I don't know who's left in that camp. There can't be very many. Or those that think it could be turned around quickly. I think you have to look at it and say, like, are you interested in following and supporting and riding with the same group of guys? While you might like them on a personal level and you might really enjoy what they've done for the organization, do you want to continue to see them here?

Or have you never experienced a fresh start in your life ever? You never have you never ever like where it's just like you know what we're just going to we're just going to start fresh we appreciate moving to Thailand yeah and I right I'm just going to give it a go we're going to see what happens see how it turns out I hate hate debating this back and forth this mythical ideological rebuild that so many people are clamoring for yet there's never been a single shred of hard evidence. the organizational undertake one. So then you start having a splinter conversation about the pros and cons of a rebuild that let's be honest, probably isn't going to happen here because there's never been any indication

that it might now. They might be talking about it. The connects might be having this earnest open exchange of ideas and thoughts about maybe just maybe trying to do things differently. Yeah. But until I see one iota

one shred of evidence that they're actually doing it. It feels like we're spinning our tires and wasting our breath. It's actually why I don't mind looking closer at actual tangible examples across the National Hockey League. How do you do it? What does it look like? And without even kind of comparing it to Vancouver, because I think it's such a foregone conclusion that they're not there yet. The memo that Rutherford sent out, I want to look at this at a small scale, a real microcosm. When Rutherford sent out the memo, which is now, what, two and a half weeks ago, three weeks ago? Everyone naturally assumed that there was going to be some movement, some action,

something that was going to follow that was going to have a tangible result either with the roster or was going to improve the on-ice product. There was going to be a shot across the bow. Nothing has happened. The memo has basically been worth the telefax people. paper that it was sent on. Like nothing's happened. Okay. This is in response and it's an unsigned text

but it's in response to when we were talking about the one thing that this Canucks team actually does well and that's talking, getting the fan base or at least a significant portion of the fan base to talk themselves

into a new team every year. Right? Maybe this year it'll be different. And by the way, if they complete Quinn Hughes trade and they get, you know, a half-teecent center back and a draft pick and, you know, maybe Heidel is feeling a little bit better and Dempco's feeling a little bit better, you know, and PD has a few gig games. Like, you could see it, you could see it happening again. This texter writes in, to be fair, my knowledge of Kinnuck stuff comes from the media. not trying to throw

something under the bus and it's not necessarily you but the news about Hughes liking foot or PD being in the best shape ever is coming from reporting and then reporting of social media but yeah I latch on to that reporting and I hope because I'm a fan

and that's all I can do I'm Charlie Brown with the football I want Hughes to like foot and be excited I want PD to return to old PD ways. I want to believe that Heidel can elevate to a 2C level if not heard and that Ratu can take that next step if he is heard. Because the alternative is just give up on the season right away with no hope for change. And if that's the case, what am I even doing here? Yeah, if you're relying on the reporting and the vibes,

you might have listened to a bunch of this radio station at the beginning of the season and gone. well, maybe things are going to be all right. This is, yeah, okay, to answer that texter's point, though, this is sort of how the sports cycle works, in a calendar year. It's hilarious, it's always hilarious when teams go into spring training in baseball. Because everybody's pretty optimistic. And there's an excitement about you never know what's really going to happen. You think you might know and you think you have some ideas,

but you never really know. And everyone's got that enthusiasm because they're back doing the thing that they love and maybe there's some new changes and there's some new energy. We saw a magical season a couple years ago. Right. And it kind of came out of nowhere

and we were all really happy about it. And you allow yourself, it was what I was saying. You allow yourself to go dunk on people like Drans. It was what you were allowed yourself repeatedly. But it was what I was saying with the White Caps game on Saturday. It wasn't the loss that stung. It's the hope that kills you. Because in that game,

There was a 15-minute spell from the start of the second half to an Ahmed scored in the 60th minute and I was in attendance. And I remember thinking and allowing myself to think, oh my God, they're going to do this. Yeah.

Because they looked like they were going to be able to do it. And then fate intervening in sports happens. Messy happened as well. And you're left with the disappointment. But to circle back on this. So when the Canucks came into this season, we and you know I'll be honest I was as guilty as anyone

for allowing myself to be glass half full and trying to be positive that's the last time I'll ever do that never again positivity what were you positive about because I I kind of rehashed some of the stories I remember I was like well people are saying this way you know here's a little hint to listening to me

when you hear me say like people are saying this it means that I don't necessarily agree I'll tell you what I was positive about and it was that the vibes were so lousy last year and the room and the camaraderie and everything was so shaken

and there was this gigantic fracture the likes of which hockey Hall of Famer Jim Rutherford had never seen over his 40 plus year career to the point where he had to trade one of his best players just to fix it but everything had been solved Remember, when you're talking about narratives being sold, this organization sold everybody, myself included,

on the fact that last year was all about the Rift. The Petterson and Miller Rift ruined that season. Yeah. That it was the number one. It was a primary cause for why that team went in the tank and failed to make the playoffs after having such a great season two years ago. Rutherford would tell anyone that was listening. He'd shout it from the rooftops

that that was the issue. That was the main reason. So what did they do? They got rid of Miller. Pedersen had a good summer. Adam Foote was going to come in and be a beacon of positivity. And to his credit, Adam Foote has been unbelievably and alarmingly at times positive.

Alarmingly positive. To the point where you're like, I don't even know if he's got a negative bone in his body. He's a nice guy who protects his players. And I thought, you know what? But I've seen crazier things happen. I've seen crazier things happen. And I'll be dead honest.

Another part of it, too, people did not want to hear the glass half empty stuff at the start of a season. When they hadn't played a game yet, when they'd only played three games, I talked to countless people off the air. We had countless texts coming in on the air. Give them a chance.

How can you be writing them off so early? Despite what we were seeing with our own eyes, we were giving it a chance. We saw warning signs right from about the third preseason game. But we kept it glass half full because, I mean, it's supposed to be like a fun, lighthearted morning show. Yeah. The team hadn't lost a bunch of games yet. And even though we had an idea of what the future had in store, we're trying to keep it positive.

The media also, and we'll just be dead honest with you, and I think it applies to a lot of them. we're scared like you know we live we live our lives getting inundated with criticism for being wrong about stuff and you can say well you guys are cowards but that's true yes true social media has caused people i've noticed people write scared now they write passively they write in ways that are and talk in ways that are not going to get themselves in trouble. I think coaches and athletes do that too. I think Rick Talkett was a great example of that last season. You know how Rick has all these asides?

He'll start down a road and then I'll have an aside because he's basically cutting off the criticism. He'll say things like, I know that people are going to say this, but I'm just going to do that. He's a biggest side guy. Biggest side guy. Because if you're media at the beginning of the season and you're like, I don't like this team. This team, if you say things like, this team is going to stink, they are going to be bad.

And then you're wrong? And it's like, you know, cold, what's that? Cold takes exposed and all that sort of thing, right? And I think that's also just like a general, you know, I think you have to know that your opinion is, you know, it might be wrong. I've been wrong in the past. So half the time I was, you know, this is why we have the whole bit with like,

prove me wrong, Canucks. You know, prove me wrong. And it's okay. It's okay to, prove me wrong. It's okay to be wrong, but some people don't think it is. Yeah, that's fair. You know, like, and they just go on and on and on.

So you start just being like, yeah, maybe. You know, like maybe they'll be fine. And it's easier to be overly optimistic than overly negative. It just is in terms of blowback. I'll also say I very much wanted this season to go right. You can listen to the show and be like, not what it sounds like, but it is true. I wanted this season to go right. And I was ready to latch on to whatever bit, a ray of sunshine, a ray of hope in the preseason leading into this that it was going to work.

And unfortunately, that approach by me, which is kind of infantile and a little juvenile and very naive. Unfortunately, that's also the same approach that the Canucks took to this season. I hope it works. I'm doing my fingers crossed on the camera right now. I hope it works. We hope everyone stays healthy. We hope that this thing works out. Also, and I know we got like three minutes left until the break.

I will give them a pass on the goaltending situation. I know they banked on, it was a risky take with Demko and his health. Very risky. However, I can't explain Lankinen right now. I cannot explain what's gone on there. I really can't. At times, I would say it was because of the defense in front of it, to a certain degree, that still is. If you look at the goals that went in last night,

the coverage in front of the net on the, at least two of the three Detroit goals, goals was pretty shaky. But at the same time, you're a goalie. You're expected to make some saves, maybe even ones that you're not supposed to make. And further to that, Gibson did.

Further to that, the purpose and the role of a goalie is not to point out the inefficiencies in front of you and then explain why those were the reason the puck was in the back of the night. Your job is to stop pucks. I think that was a, far too late, but a symbolic move

to put in Tola Pelo for the third yesterday. Because they weren't, you could tell that game was done. Maybe the most rose-colored optimist out there thought that they had a chance to get back in that. But that was about, hey man, you're getting wildly outplayed by the guy at the other end of the ice. You've given a straight.

Foot also said, you know, Lanks is going through some personal stuff. And, you know, you did have that leave of absence. So who knows what happened in the room in between the second and third period? I know he's had a tough time. Yeah. I know that.

And if you say, like, wow, you really got the cleavers out for a guy that's going through some stuff. Hey, man, it's a job. It's not happening right now. All I'm saying is I can't explain it because he's not the guy right now that he was last season. The important part, and I'm not dismissing his personal situation as an important part, but the important part is that the Kinnock's banked on one thing with him and I've got a totally different thing. and that's a big reason one of the many big reasons

why the season has gone so poorly Laddie did Lankanen have a big enough resume to merit the contract that he received? I think he did at the time I had no problem with what they did he was very well respected and you talked to any goaltender coach that's worked with him and

they all thought very highly of Kevin Langley and he's a high character guy too by all accounts good underlying numbers there are a lot of positive signs when they went out and signed He just hadn't, you know, he had two years in Chicago, two years in Nashville. He never started more than 37 games, and then he comes to Vancouver. And he was good, especially early on, especially early on. You know, he finished with a 902, which is fine, but certainly not anything that is crazy.

But then you look at the team that he was backstopping, and you're like, that's pretty good. But conceptually, and without me faking optimism, I really like the idea of, what they were going to do in net. I really did. And I understood the risk of banking on Demko, but I thought, well, at the very least, you've got Lankin in there. And that has just done a total 180 on them.

Demko's been barely available, and Lankin hasn't been able to carry the mail for them. Like last night, I mean, again, last night's game, we're so far gone that it doesn't really matter, but that was a glaring example of what really good goaltaining will get you on a night in the NHL and what average goaltending is going to give you. yeah. Okay. No Eric Engels, by the way.

Adag, what have we rescheduled here? What's our next hour looking like? What are we doing? We got Wish coming up next, and then Eric Angles is going to join us at 7.30. Okay. And who's our 8 o'clock guest? Landon Farrow is going to join us at 8.10. Okay, so you had a full hour of Alford and I talking about how we're wrong all the time and scared of you, basically. Got embrace the hot takes, boys. So that was interesting. We basically just had things. therapy about the Canucks for an hour. Well, I feel better. I don't really.

Okay, we got to feel like a sucker. I feel worse. Okay, real quick, that segment, all of the therapy, all of it was brought to you by the fine folks at the Duick Auto Group. If you're not feeling great, you know what you should do to cheer yourself up? Go buy a new car. It works. Trust me.

Find out why nobody beats a Duick deal since 1926. Visit Duick GM on Marine Drive. Visit them downtown. Visit them in Richmond and visit them online at the Duik Auto Group. Hour one is in the books. Hour two is on the first. Horizon. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650.