Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Feel Around The Canucks Now Is Different

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason preview tonight's Canucks matchup at the Rangers with radio commentator Brendan Batchelor (1:22), plus the boys answer listener questions about where the 'Nucks go from here in their post-Quinn Hughes era (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's his friend and Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelor, Life from Rogers Arena, Collin' Canucks Games. It is Brendan Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelor. 7 o'clock on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody, Halford Brough, Sportsnet, 650. Halford Brough in the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt free in just two weeks.

Visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program. Brendan Batchelor, Play-by-Played voice of the Vancouver Canucks. He's going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two is brought to by Jason Homnock at Jason. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason, Dow Mortgage.

We are coming to live from the Kintech Studio. Now is the time to maximize the benefits of custom orthodox. before the year runs out. Visit kintech.net. Friendly reminder, Canucks back in action tonight, looking for another victory on the road, this time at Madison Square Garden against the New York Rangers. Puck drop is 4 o'clock. You can hear the call right here on SportsNet 650.

You can hear our next guest on that very call. Brendan Batchler, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks joins us now in the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. What about, Batch? Not too much. How are you guys? We're well. We're for one of the rare times this season.

And I'm actually really looking forward to this game tonight because a little bit of energy, it's a little different. I got to admit, at times this year, it has been a slog. And I didn't really get to fully appreciate the 9.30 a.m. start game in New Jersey. So this one, it's Madison Square Garden. It's against the Rangers, J.T. Miller, all that stuff. But I am very excited to see the second iteration of Zeev Bouillon, Marco Rossi, Liam Ogren.

And just to see a little bit, what did you see on Sunday that you liked from? And I know it was early days and everything. but what did you like from the new guys to the Vancouver Canucks? Yeah, I think there's a raising of floor in some positions from these guys, certainly mostly Marco Rossi helping out down the middle and things look a lot more solidified there. You know, obviously with Queen Hughes leaving, the back end is going to look a lot different

and the deployment had to be a lot different. And, you know, I liked some of what I saw from Zeebuehium. And, you know, the minutes being more spread. out and other guys getting more opportunity will be interesting to follow going forward this year. I thought there were, you know, a couple of interesting ships where Booiam and V-Londor ended up out there together and that's two 20-year-old defensemen playing on a pairing in the NHL. So that's, you know, cool to see as you look to the future. And, you know, I think you're right about the feel around the team right now. And, you know, honestly, anytime a team

makes a big trade, whether they're the buyer or the seller or something changes with their roster in the immediate term you're more entreat to watch them and see them but i think also the fact that the canucks are you know charting a path towards the future um to some degree at the very least by making this move and bringing in young pieces means that you know the the feel around watching this team has changed and you know as someone that you know watches all the games obviously um you know i have that feel too where rather than talking about you know oh when is the quit-use trade coming and what's going to happen? And is he going to stay or is he going to go?

Now you can shift your focus. And again, not that I'm trying to say that trading quit use is a good thing because it certainly wasn't. It's a dark day in franchise history when you have to move off a player like that. But now we can talk about how to the young guys look and expectations are not there for this team to accomplish things this season.

So then you can focus on things like how the young players are developing and the opportunities they're getting and how they're doing with those opportunities and how they grow their games. And ultimately we are going to see growth from some of these young guys between now and April. So it's kind of an exciting turning on the page at the same time, even though it's disappointing that we got to this point

where they had to trade Quinn Hughes. Batch, is there a bit of a numbers crunch up front now? Maybe a little bit. You know, if they start to get healthier, then, you know, there will be to some extent. But, you know, Atu Ratu, a healthy scratch the other night, which I thought was a little bit surprising based on how well I think he's been playing of late. So, you know, internal competition is always a good thing. And unfortunately, because of some of the injuries they've had this year, there hasn't been enough internal competition.

And guys that would have been battling for roster spots on a healthy team have all been playing. Like, you know, you go back to training camp, we were talking about, you know, is Bain's going to make a push? or what about Carlson or maybe Sassone? And in fact, for the most part, I know Bates has been a healthy scratch a few times, but for the most part, all three of those guys have been in the lineup on most nights by necessity.

So now you, you know, you get some extra bodies in in a trade like that, you know, most notably in Ogren and Rossi up front. And now there is some of that competition and there is some, you know, a standard that has to be met if you want to be in the lineup on a nightly basis. And that will only grow.

if Elias Pedersen comes back soon. What about Teddy Bluger? You know, ultimately, who knows about Philippeal in terms of getting into the New Year? And eventually there are going to be guys traded off this roster too. But yeah, at the moment, there is some competition there. And I think, you know, that's a good thing for young players and veterans alike because, you know, it means they've got to look over their shoulder a little bit

when maybe that wasn't happening to this point in the year. The scratches for the Devils game were Ratu, as you mentioned, Baines and then P.O. Joseph on the back end. Do we know anything about what is ailing, Elias Pedersen? I believe all we've been told is that it's an upper body injury. Beyond that, I don't have any specific insight. I don't think it's concussion related because we haven't heard anything about protocol or anything like that. But it's something that's bothering him to a degree that he needed to go on IR. Obviously that was retroactive so they could get Marco Rossi into the lineup and he's on the trip and he's practiced with the team. So I would imagine he's close and, you know,

maybe we'll learn a little bit more about his status and availability when the team takes the ice for morning skating under an hour from now. But, you know, I don't have any specific intel on exactly what's ailing him or how much longer he might be out. Do you think they might be able to talk themselves into a team with Elias Pedersen and Marco Rossi down the middle? And maybe, maybe Philippal. Let's not forget about him. And maybe next season, maybe again, Braden Coots.

That to me depends on Elias Pedersen. So that's a team you can talk yourself into if Elias Pedersen is the one hundred point bona fide number one centerman that he's been in the past. If he's not, I'm not convinced. And maybe they would be or maybe they would look at it that way. But I also have to believe that they could learn from the mistakes of the past in the sense that, you know, looking at Elias Pedersen and Philip Heedle as a one-two punch ultimately didn't work out.

And, you know, maybe there's an argument, you know, if Heedle was healthy, things would have been different and I'm sure that's the case, but I think it's also clear that you can't necessarily bank on Philippeel to be healthy. So Marco Rossi comes in, adds some centerized depth. He's the guy that they would have loved to have brought in in the summer so that they could have had that one, two, three punch going into the year. But, you know, because Pedersen, you know, still hasn't trended enough in the right direction for me, I think when he went out with the injury, he was still on pace for a sub-70-point season or he was at or around that number

in terms of what was expected for him for the year based on the pace he was playing. You know, I think you need more from Elias Penerson if he's going to be your number one center. Unless Marco Rossi somehow breaks out and becomes a bona fide number one center, but I don't think many people expect that to happen. So, you know, can you build a team around

two second-line centers instead of one first-line? line center? Probably not in my mind, but ultimately we'll see how things go. And, you know, I think wasn't it Gary Mason who was on with you guys that essentially alluded to the fact that Elias Patterson is the one big decision left for this team in terms of where things go with him, whether he stays, and ultimately what that means for the team going forward. And their conversations around him and his play going forward are. going to determine whether they believe he can get back to being that number one center or not.

I know Patrick Alvin said all the right things about it, but ultimately their actions are going to speak louder than their words. And, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if there's another domino to fall in terms of a quote-unquote key player being moved out of Vancouver at some point, not saying it's going to be imminent. I think if they were to do that, that's more of an off-season move than an in-season move because of the term left and the dollar amount and the complicated. around everything that's happened there.

But, you know, I don't think we should assume that their plan is to talk themselves into Elias Pedersen being a number one center if Elias Pedersen doesn't show that he can get back to being a number one center. You know, for me, the curiosity factor on this season just went up. I'm not saying I'm happy that Quinn Hughes was traded, but you can be curious about things that might not end up so good. I want to see what the powerplay looks like I want Pedersen to get back

and I want to see what the power play looks like because I know the power play numbers weren't horrible but I think there was some dysfunction on that power play just watching it go you know there was way too often just Quinn doing it all himself and I don't think that's how power plays should work you can talk about that

or maybe some other things that you're curious to see without Quinn Hughes because he was such a massive, massive part of this team. I mean, he had the puck on his stick for four minutes out of every game, according to the stats. Yeah, and, you know, with the power play in particular, I like the way it looked against the devils on Sunday, where there was more rotation, there was more decisive puck movement, and that's an encouraging sign. Now, when Elias Pedersen gets back there, I think that's going to be interesting because he hasn't always been the most decisive. player with the puck on the power play and I think that was part of the dysfunction that you're alluding to is that Quinn might have got frustrated by the amount of times that he

would try to set up PD for shot opportunities or one timers and instead just get the puck passed back to him and they would work it around the outside and yeah I think we talked about this a few weeks ago like PD always dust the puck off and they you know they were killing their own penalties or their own power plays in some senses by the way that they were moving the puck around and even going back to Rick Talkett's time here. He wanted them to be more straight ahead of the power play. He wanted them to get pucks and bodies to the net

and create chaos and try and have secondary opportunities like that. And that's a perfect example of the Jake DeBrus power play goal that made it won nothing against the devil. So again, it was just the one game. So we'll get another look at the power play unit tonight.

And, you know, we can, you know, continue to learn about how Zee Boeum is going to fit in on that unit. I think Marco Rossi's probably a pretty solid addition. He led the Wild and power play goals last year, so he's capable of producing on the man advantage too. And, you know, on paper with the skill set that he has, Uadilius Pedersen back to that top unit,

and it could make it pretty dangerous. But chemistry is an interesting thing, and so I'm going to be interested to see, you know, not just with, you know, Pedersen and the power play, but, you know, who's going to be the best D partner for Zeebouiam going forward? who are going to be the best wing combinations that get the most out of Marco Rossi. Where does Liam Ogren fall in this lineup

in terms of whether he's a third liner or a fourth liner or whether he needs some time at Abbotsford as well? You know, these are all going to be interesting things to track. And, you know, as I was saying earlier, you're right. You know, it's not a happy day that you have to trade Queen Hughes, but there are some more hockey-based, intriguing storylines with this team now as opposed to the off-ice drama,

which frankly we've had to talk too much about over the last few years and not saying that the off-ice drama is gone because Elias Pedersen's still here. We just spent a portion of time talking about what's going to happen with his future. But, you know, as someone that calls the games, I like talking about the games a whole lot more than talking about the off-ice stuff. And I would much rather be analyzing, you know, where Steve Williams fit is with this team

than, you know, looking at trade speculation going forward. We're speaking to Brendan Batchelor, play-by-play voice of Vancouver Canucks here on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Reminder, you can hear Batch on the call. Tonight, 4 o'clock from MSG, it's the Canucks and it's the Rangers. Batch, what did you think of Thatcher Demko's game on Sunday morning against the New Jersey Devils? Yeah, I thought he was really good. And, you know, it was a storyline that I think went a little bit under the radar because of the two-point game for Zeebouiam. and, you know, the excitement around getting those new guys in the lineup.

But he was crucial for them, especially on the five-on-three penalty killed that they had early in the game where he made, like, four back-to-back-to-back, unbelievable saves to keep them in front and ultimately allow them to win the game in the end. So, you know, I know New Jersey is pretty banged up right now. They don't have many of their top guys in the lineup, and that will have played a factor in that result, too. but I thought Demko looked like Demko again, which is encouraging with the amount of time he's missed with injury. And I think with some of the struggles he had in that Buffalo game at the end of the homestead,

he was pretty self-critical when we talked to him after the game, especially about the Rasmus Dahlin goal that he led in on a long, relatively unscreen shot for the point. And so to see him healthy and trending back towards his game, I think is a good thing, and a good thing for this team. I know people want them to lose games, and ultimately I think they still will.

You know, they get two power play goals against the Devils, but the five-on-five numbers show, if I'm not mistaken, but the Devils drove play pretty effectively against them and just didn't have the finishing ability at the top of their lineup to have it make a difference in that game. But, you know, I think Demko with a younger team in front of him,

keeping them competitive, keeping them in games, is a good thing for some of the growth of those young players, particularly the young defensemen, because when you've got Thatcher Demko behind you, you know, you're free to take more risks and, you know, make some mistakes as you learn the NHL game and try to evolve your own game. And having that insulation behind some of these young guys,

I think is going to be pretty important going forward. Ultimately, that's going to depend on if Demko can stay healthy, though. And, you know, I think hopefully he does and can get on a good run whether that means he's going to be in Vancouver long term to help this group transition to wherever they're headed or whether that means a healthy Thatcher Demko increases his asset value in terms of a potential trade going forward a healthy and good Demko playing to the peak of his abilities

is good for this team regardless of what the future holds I think speaking of Demko's health so he's played two in a row does he go tonight because they do have a Friday Saturday back to back against the Isles and the Bruins? Yeah, I wonder about that. You know, it could be a Kevin Lankin in night. That said, Kevin Lankin's last appearance in a Cadoc's crease, he was pulled after two periods for Nikita Tola Pilo.

So confidence is not necessarily at a high from the coaching staff with Kevin Lankin in his game right now. And, you know, because Demko's missed so much time and you haven't had a back-to-back yet, you theoretically could go back to him in that. this spot. So, you know, to me, it's almost a toss-up in terms of who goes tonight, because we know they're going to split the next two anyway. So, you know, I, with a morning game on Sunday, so it's been, you know, longer than just one day between games. It's been like a day and a half. I could see

them going back to Demko. I could see them also saying, look, we don't need to run him hot out of the gate since he's been back and shifting to Lankan in as well. I know a lot of things have gone wrong this year, and a lot of the reasons why they're 12, 17, and 3 aren't just because of the goaltending. But Sunday was, like, it was a friendly reminder that when Demp goes on and he's doing his thing,

he can, like, get you out of situations that, quite frankly, the other goal is on the team just aren't going to be able to. Yeah, you know, we've talked about this a lot over the years, that he papers over the cracks for this team. A ton. A ton. And I think, you know, if we really take an honest look back, even at 2020, 23, 24,

That team had a great season, won the division, went on a PDO bender, as we've talked about. But Demko was a big part of papering over some of the cracks with that team and leading them, you know, to the heights that they got to, especially in the first half of the season. Obviously, he got hurt in the second half. But, you know, yeah, and again, you know, some people will say, oh, no, he's going to come back and steal a bunch of games and they'll earn too many points and it will hurt their draft position. I honestly, when you lose Queen Hughes, the impact that that's going to have on your roster is going to be exponential to a degree that, you know, yeah, Demko might steal the odd game here or there. I don't know if he'll be able to play well enough to notably change where this team finishes in the standings, but at the same time, it does, as I said, provide some insulation for those young defensemen

to be able to take some more risks knowing that they've got a Vezna caliber goaltender behind them when he's healthy and on his game and so hopefully he continues to provide that for this group. Do you think it's possible that we do see the Canucks get pinned in their own end and a lot of games

going forward? Because you know, they're last in the league this season but I haven't watched them like I watched a few of the Canucks teams from like a few years ago from maybe some of the Willie de Jard in years or even some

the Travis Green years where they they'd get out shot you know like 40 to 15 or whatever they were just dominated in games this season it's been more about really bad defensive breakdowns that have cost them but you know and I think that's a reason

where Adam Foote has kind of said we're right there in a lot of games is that going to be different going forward without Quinn yeah it's too early to tell and I think the devil's game maybe is isn't the best marker because the Devils have Jack Hughes and Timom Meyer out of their lineup right now.

And if those two guys are in that game with the way that the Devils drove play at five on five, it could have been a completely different result. And that's also a game where the Caducs were opportunistic on two power plays early and we're able to protect the lead, which for the most part they haven't been able to do. They've been getting behind early and chasing games a lot this year. And, you know, the state of the game changes completely depending on, you know, you know, where you are, you know, whether in front or behind or, you know, in a close game late. So, yeah, absolutely.

I think we could see teams jump out for early leads against the Canucks and then kind of lock things down. And whether that means the Canucks get pinned for extended stretches, you know, I think that's going to happen because we've seen that happen pretty consistently with this group when Queen Hughes wasn't on the ice for this team this year. And especially if they got caught with some of the young defensemen out there, it would happen. in some of those sequences. So now that Queen Hughes is gone and he's never on the ice for them,

you know, absolutely I would expect other teams to be able to drive play pretty consistently against them. And so that ultimately is why I say that, you know, even a healthy Thatcher Demko eventually won't be able to paper over all of the cracks with this team and why, you know, I can't remember. I think we were having a conversation

or somewhat on our airwaves was having a conversation right after the trade happens saying, oh, no, is the return so good that this team is going to, you know, continue to win games and be better going forward? And it's like, no, you lost Quinn Hughes. The return's not better than Queen Hughes. The team's not getting better without Quinn Hughes. And so, you know, ultimately, yeah, I think we'll see them get pinned at times, especially against stronger teams that have, you know, very dangerous players up the lineup.

If they, you know, if they're on the road, let's say, and the other teams, team has last change and get like a, I don't know, a Nathan McKinnon line out there against some of these young guys playing down the Canucks lineup. It's not going to be pretty for them ultimately, but I think it may also be a good learning experience for some of those players, too, about where they need to get to, you know, help this team trend in the right direction. Canucks, Rangers, 4 o'clock tonight, Batch, have a good call. Thanks for doing this today, buddy. Sounds good, thanks, thanks, boys. Have a good one. Brennan Bachelor, play-by-play voice of the Canucks right here on SportsNet 650.

we are going to go to break. When we come back, we got an open segment here on the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. Get your text in. Dunbar Lumber text message in Basket is 650, 650.

We've got a few things we can go over from the NHL at large. We can also dive into the Dunbar Lumber text in Basket, read some of your Canucks-related text. Also, coming up at 7.30, on the nose, we're going to be doing our $250 gift card giveaway to Golf Town.

We're doing that every day. day this week. Caller number five at 7.30 this morning will win the aforementioned $250 gift card to Golf Town. You can do some last minute holiday shopping for the golfer in your life. We've got a big show still ahead on the horizon. Jim Cerney is going to join us at 8 o'clock, the executive editor of Forever Blue Shirts. Batch just previewed the Kinnock side of things for tonight's game. Jim is going to join us to talk about J.T. Miller, Mika Zabinajad, everything that's going on. Mike Sullivan with the New York Rangers and then at 830 a little programming wrinkle for the show instead of doing what we learns we're going to talk to former Vancouver Canuck Dale Weiss he's going

to join the program at 830 we're going to talk to Dale Weiss about culture because Dale Weiss recently on a podcast appearance talked about culture he talked about the culture that the Cedine set in Vancouver while he was playing here and we thought you know what culture's kind of been a buzzword in Vancouver recently Why not talk to Dale about the golden days of Siddine culture? He's also had some critical words of certain cultures that he's been a part of. I think it was like the Klojuru Jake Voracek Flyers. You are correct.

Right. So that'll be an interesting conversation. We just can catch up with Dale Weiss on the Halford Embruff Show on Sportsnet 650. Finally, before we go to break, I need to tell you about the Duick Auto Group. New Car Day today for me picking up a Cadillac Optique. Already? Yeah, yeah, I'm going to test drive one for the week. Get to see you at the Cadillac Life.

is all about. A reminder, of course, that and everything else, this segment, that car all brought to you by the Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats a Duick Deal since 1926. Visit Duick GM on Marine Drive. Visit them downtown. Visit them in Richmond and, of course, visit them online at the duik Auto Group.com. It's Canucks Central on SportsNet 650. From exclusive interviews to insider scoops and post-game breakdowns, we've got it all. Tune in weekdays 4 to 6 p.m. on radio and on demand through your favorite podcast app. Happy Tuesday, everybody.

Alfred Brough of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Get out of the penalty box of debt back into the game with a financial fresh start. Visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour two of the program. We're at the midway point of the show, open segment coming up here. Hour two of this program is brought to by Jason hominock at jason.com. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason.

Dom Mortgage. So it is the Canucks. It is the Rangers tonight. Four o'clock buck drop from MSG, pregame, post game, and the actual game. You can hear it all right here on SportsNet 650. And I have noticed a trend amongst some of the SportsNet 650 and Halbro listeners. And that is some of you, some of you, including Dr. Jay and Langley, trying to talk yourselves into the idea that life is going to be better and the Canucks are going to be better. Without the services of Quinn, don't call me quit Hughes. Or Quinn, don't call me puck hog, Hughes? It's a team game, Alford. It's a team game, the game of hockey. Quinn Hughes was not a team player. Quinn Hughes will make your team better, infinitely better. Huggy bear was hugging the puck a little too much.

More like hoggy bear. Whoa, there we go. I understand. This is fun, isn't it? I understand Quinn Hughes, erasure. I'm all for it. I'm all for it At the same time

To occasionally steer us back into the lane of reality They're not going to be a better team Without him There might be aspects of the game that you might think Look better and there might be This is called copium by the way This is what this is No no no no no

No no no no Because I understand in that first game There were flashes of a power play That was zipping a puck around Yeah there was two points at the end of the day They won the game So I understand there's some hard tangible evidence in there

but over the long haul there's going to be stretches where you're like it'd be nice to have someone to break out the puck by himself like that would be nice or it would nice to have a guy that could do zone entries whenever he wanted because that's how good he was and Zeve William's going to be able to replace some of that but

you guys have to understand I think most of us do understand how good Quinn Hughes is I don't think there's a player one-on-one that was better than Quinn Hughes and he played he played hockey almost like a like a basketball player with you know like one-on-one if you're talking about like a you know one-on-one situation clear him out

and then you like that no one played hockey like that yeah it's funny it's funny you mention basketball so like oftentimes he would step back and hit and try and hit a three too from the point right and it would get blocked which kind of happens to basketball um so you mentioned This is a brief aside, but when Steve Nash had his breakout years with the Phoenix Suns, I remember there's a book called Seven Second Seconds or Less. I think it was Jack McCallum, who wrote out camera at the time. That doesn't matter. It was about their strategy.

But it talked about the way that- Now the NBA is four seconds or less. Yeah, and get that three-pointer up in four seconds or less. But they talked about the way that he moved on the court, and they said, basketball was always about when you made cuts and you made movements, it was always very angular, like a 90 degree cut or like a scissor cut. It was all very angular and pointed. And they said, Steve played the game in curves and in S's, like the letter S.

Yeah. And he would almost kind of coil his way into spots on the floor that would make it really weird because guys weren't used to seeing it. And I always thought like that was Hughes for me when he played, is that he attacked the game at, and it wasn't even angles. It was like just different pockets that because he skated so well. He could maneuver in ways and almost slither in other ways that other guys could any other confidence to do it because he was never worried about losing the pie.

And that worked in the offensive zone and it worked in the defensive zone. It was very tough to pin him down. Now, I will say that in the playoffs a couple of years ago, I thought Nashville and Edmonton did a very good job of forechecking him and putting the body on him. And I don't know if he got hurt a little. bit in that or if you know he just i don't know got a little hesitant or whatever or tried to do too much but they did do an effective job of limiting him yep and um but it's not the playoffs right now

no no you know that that that that stuff doesn't happen there isn't frankly there that much effort or that intensity in the in the regular season i really wonder if we're going to get into situations with the Canucks where you've got you know Zeev Bouillon Philip Peronik is that going to be your top pair maybe and then the bottom

four and sometimes they're paired differently but you've got Tyler Myers Marcus Patterson Tom Vielander and DPD and you know DPD and Tom Vilander are good young defensemen

but they're still young defensemen in the NHL, and they get pinned sometimes. Marcus Pedersen and Tyler Myers, I think, have had a really tough year. I don't know if that's a new systems thing under Adam Foot, or trying to work with some of the centers, some of the non, frankly, NHL centers that they've had to work with. But I think there's going to be times when you're looking at this blue line and going, man, they sure could use a Norris trophy winner on this blue line. And I'll bring up I'll bring up

I'll bring up Elias Pedersons with and without numbers Without Quinn Hughes They are starkly different When Quinn Hughes is on the ice with Elias Pedersen Pedersen's numbers look really good And when Quinn Hughes is not on the ice with Elias Pedersen Then PD's numbers look pretty bad And you might say

Well don't all the Canucks numbers look bad without Quinn Hughes not to the extent that Pedersen has so for me once PD gets back I know he's kind of always interesting to watch

because everyone's just waiting to see like when is he back what's he going to look like today did something go well for him early in the game that means he's probably going to play well if something didn't go well well his confidence is going to be shot for this game they need

play drivers yeah that's what Quinn Hughes was. He was a play driver. At the end of the day, it's about getting the puck out of your end and putting it into the other end and doing good things there. Yep. The bad teams don't even get through step A, which is get the puck out of their own end. And that's what Quinn Hughes was. You hear the term one-man breakout because it is accurate. Now again, Zeve Boullium can replace some of that and Philip Peronik is still a good defenseman. So it'll be interesting to see how the Canucks do this.

I will be curious to see how the power play evolves without Quinn Hughes. I'm not saying Quinn was bad for the power play, but I think there was a lot of dysfunction on that power play. And I think Quinn was clearly frustrated with some of his teammates on the powerplay.

And eventually it just got to the point where he's like, listen, I'm going to do my dancing at the top and I'm going to fling one on. And I don't think, I think sometimes that's fine. You know, screenshots, puck on net. It's not a bad way to score goals in the NHL.

But you need so much more. You need some sort of down low play, some sort of east-west play. You need to have more than just flinging it from the point. There has to be. And even though Quinn wouldn't just, I mean, he wouldn't just fling it like, you know, there would be purpose behind it,

and sometimes he'd be able to skate into pockets and get really good scoring chances. But the power play wasn't as efficient as it could be. Now, how is PD going to look on that power play? Is he going to try and take over that power play? Because I sense that PD wants to be the guy on the half wall. He doesn't, frankly, it doesn't look like Pedersen wants to be the one-time guy.

what he wants to be is the guy on the half wall feeding those seam passes yeah that blows my mind like everyone that says that Hughes I think that's where the evolution of his

and evolution's a funny word PD's shot on the power play in that spot like when it hits is insane though why would he want to be that guy he would good question like that's ridiculous to me he was never ready to take the shot

okay when you go when you're watching the power play when you go watch power plays of other teams and the guy waiting for the one-timer the clue is that his stick is not on the ice

because he's waiting for the one-timer he's ready to go Pedersen was never like that and so I think Quinn got very frustrated because he wasn't in a one-timer he wasn't ready for it he wanted the puck on his stick

dick, and how often, and he would often make terrific seam passes, you know, and that's a key to a powerplay, but there just seemed to be a real disconnect, and what it ended up was when Pedersen would get the puck, he wouldn't really attack space. I mean, if I was so funny that we're, it's so funny that we're having this conversation, though, because it's, it's the latest iteration of, will this finally solve Lee is Pedersen? It is funny. Yeah, not having Quinnian's on the power play. You got to admit.

It's hilarious. I gave up. Now I'm going to shoot. My last salvo in this debate was when they went into the 2024 playoffs and he was playing alongside Dills Hoaglander and Ilya McAev. And I said if they can go and find him a winger to play with, that'll fix everything. And they signed DeBraskin. Spoiler alert, it hasn't fixed everything.

There's been several iterations since then. Once they trade J.T. Miller, everything's going to be fixed. Once he has a good summer in Sweden and goes back and gets healthy, everything's going to be fixed. After he has that successful and happy golf round with Adam Foote and Thatcher Demko and the other leaders on the team, everything's going to work out.

Now it's that his power play is going to be unlocked once they move Hughes. I mean, I know we've talked a lot about this, but I'm very much at the point. Pursuant to my earlier point, they've got to continue down this road of moving out veteran pieces. The fact that Pedersen's,

designated survivor of all of this, I think just speaks to his immovability than anything else. I don't think it's a choice that they're actively making that Horvatt and Miller and Hughes are all gone, but they're going to rebuild this thing around Pedersen. Designated survivor. He's the designated survivor. That's, you know. So this is something that's been relitigated on social media, I noticed. So let's do it on this show.

Okay. When, if there was a key thing, if, there was a key thing that happened to this core when in your opinion did it all fall apart I got the answer

yeah Pedersen extension oh no I would know earlier than me I bet Adog's gonna say when they chose Miller over Horvath correct that is when it all started to go wrong really

I know it's crazy to say because they did go on that play up front but it's like that was that was like the the sort of the seed, the beginning, because there was the Horvatt-Miller thing as well, which I don't know if that's why they traded Horvatt because he had a thing with Miller or not. I'm just saying like there was that reported issue between the two of them, and they picked one guy over the other. Had they have chosen, hindsight 20-20, Horvatt over Miller,

I'm assuming Horvatt gets along fine with PD, got along fine with Hughes. Had they have picked Horvatt over Miller, maybe this whole thing would have worked out completely differently. But then again, maybe the Knucks wouldn't have gone on that little run they had. So who knows, right? It's very hard to say. I mean, I think that's a great candidate. That would be my choice, my first bet. But I still get back to...

I appreciate your point, sorry. Yeah, no, no, I still get back to the extension that he signed and then his game fell apart for whatever reason. We don't know why. And then everyone remembers... So I remember that playoffs differently than most people because, for the most part, people were excited about those playoffs, right? And I had my excitement, some of the games that they had in Nashville.

They were incredible endings. They had good wins, and it was exciting going up against Edmonton. But I was so focused on what had happened to Pedersen. Because I'm sitting there, like, I feel, I don't want to say vindicated, but there was a lot of people that were like, oh, he's just in a slump or he's got an injury and I'm watching and I'm like

this is weird what's going on right now this is this is odd and you remember I was like you know this isn't this isn't this isn't something there's something else going on here yeah and this is this is bizarre and I really so

after that that playoffs was done and they lose in seven to Edmonton I'm like man like you know, yeah, it was great that they got there, but if this is the Pedersen we're going to get going forward, if something's gone on here, then they're screwed. Yep.

Like this is, this is, this is, and, you know, I had a hope that maybe he'd come back better in the next season, of course. But he didn't. And that must have, that must have been the thing that reignited the feud between Miller and Pedersen. Because I think... All yes. I remember watching those playoffs and going,

I wonder what's being said in that room to Pedersen right now because he is not part of the fight. He is not part of the battle. And I don't know why. I think it was, if I already guessed, he was just having major, major confidence issues and then probably having guys like J.T. Miller scream at him did not help.

And that's where I wonder about the culture. And that's where I wonder about the decision by management and also the coaching staff to empower J.T. Miller to use his form of leadership in that situation wasn't amazing. major blunder. Right. You have to understand people when you're in management and you're in coaching.

And you have to understand how some people are, how some people are motivated, how some people are definitely not motivated. It's a huge thing. And you can't use analytics for it. That's the thing. There's no numbers. You just have to understand human beings and have empathy. and be in situations where you're like,

is it going to be the right decision to try and, quote, unquote, toughen up, Ilius Pedersen? Or should we perhaps go at this in a different direction? And they did go in a different direction. They got rid of Miller. Eventually, but it was way too late. I know, and now, we're talking like, way too late. You know who had a good culture carrier?

Well, who was a good culture carrier? That's a word, right? Culture carrier. Who? Bo Horvette. Come on, man. Come on. He wasn't that inspiring as a leader.

He inspired men. He wasn't inspiring. Give up their lay down their lives. I had a nickname for him how uninspiring he is. Yeah. Go on.

The funny thing is people... You had a good point. Some people agreed with you. And then you're like, I'm going to ruin it now. And you did. But he wasn't a problem at the very least.

He was solid. But I also understood if I didn't agree with it in hindsight where they were like, can we do better as a leader? Can we do better than Boa? And, you know, maybe they thought that was,

well, did Quinn the captain, but I think with Rutherford's personality, he liked the J.T. Miller style. For sure. I think a lot of guys in the room like J.T. Miller style. He liked the fiery style. A lot of guys in that room that like Miller style. Yeah. And it blew up spectacularly. But when they blew it up, which was now, by the way, over 11 months ago, you kind of were waiting, like I said, in the latest iteration of, is this going to fix the Pedersen situation? and it just hasn't. He's on a line A trajectory.

Yeah, he's on a line A trajectory. For sure, that's fair. Yeah, yeah, you know? Like, I went back and looked at LionA's first three years in the NHL, and he went 36, 44, 30. Yeah, they were calling him the next Ovi. Right? And it just fell off a cliff.

And there were health issues there, and there was off-ice stuff there as well. So I look at it, and I'm like, between the recurrent health issues and the diminishing returns how is this going to age? The issue here is that the contract is so onerous, so

onerous. You're not, I mean, say what you will about Miller's like the back half of that contract, you still had a taker. You still had someone that was willing to give up assets, not great assets, but good ones. And you were able to move them. Quinn Hughes was no question you were going to be able to move him. Horvatt, you were able to move and get assets.

You can't do that right now with Pedersen. I mean, his number are not great considering all the opportunities he gets. If you look at offensive numbers, people are like, well, if he's a point of game guy, is that fine? I was like, well, look at all the chances he gets to put up points. He's not putting up points five on five. And people will say, and by the way,

God, the one argument that really gets me is that, well, Bergeron and Barkoff aren't always point of game players. when PD starts playing with those guys like those guys let me know because all you got to do is watch the games to know that he is not making the impact that those guys do

well now you're talking about it there's legitimate durability issues I would say now I would say it right you missed a third of the season last year wasn't it close to it you only played in 60 games yeah right and now he's on pace he's already missed a handful this year

so now you're talking you add that to the mix health has long been either rumored or reported or whispered about being an issue between the wrist or the tendonitis or whatever else so you can throw that under the pile as well not like he's Benjamin buttoning this thing and getting like aging in reverse

like he's aging like everybody else is so I can't wait for the Olympics for a number of reasons obviously number one cheer on team Canada how curious are you going to be to be you know what what role, assuming both these guys make the team, what role is Pedersen going to have with Sweden,

and what role is Miller going to have with the Americans? And when I say roll, ice time, the four nations that, for Pedersen, I think was an eye-opener around the league to where his game had fallen to because he was invisible out there. And there were times where I think you can make the argument he didn't belong in that tournament

sounds harsh but it's also I think true I'll be okay so I'll focus on Miller the speed the speed of the hockey is and it's not I'm not just talking about the skating speed which is fast

but it's the decision making and PD does like to slow the game down a little bit it's why I think he can be good on the power play because he can get it on that half wall and he can go all right okay I'm gonna make decisions here right and but when you're five on five and the decisions are fast and the players are so good that there aren't you know like it can go that fast because the players are that good

i don't think he thrives i see i don't know the dynamic with him and sam halliam and the head coach and everything i don't know where he's well i think sam halam uh uh um i think he cut his ice time dramatically from the first game to whenever Sweden's last game was. So on that note, I did want to get to the Miller thing though, because I think Miller is, I know Pedersen plays with the Canucks and Miller doesn't, so Pedersen is inherently more

interesting, but the Miller Sullivan dynamic is that's the interesting one for me. Because can you be his coach with the Rangers and then be part of the group that like, imagine they don't take them to the Olympics. Yeah, you can. Oh, if they don't take them. Oh, no, they have to take them.

Yeah. I'm talking, I thought, you know, I thought, you know, I thought you were going to say and play him 10 minutes a game. Do you think he's a lock, though, really? No, if you put together a short list right now of guys that have played their way out of Olympic contention, he would be right. Yeah, I don't know if Miller's a lock for the Olympic team, to be honest. Like, he might not be. I think that they will take him and play him in a limited role just to avoid the potential nightmare.

You remember what happened in Tampa Bay with Marty St. Louis, Steve Isman, right? He still held that grudge. Yeah, it ruined their relationship. I mean, honestly, both him and PD probably are like fourth liners at this point. On their respective national teams. Last week, he said they'll take them just to avoid the hissy fit. Because you have to. I mean, it wrecks Sullivan.

They just named him captain in New York. Like that wrecks the Rangers and Sullivan in that relationship if they do that. But do you take him at the expense of a guy that's legitimately earned it? I don't know. That's a tough decision. I mean, that's what makes the part of the Olympic thing so great, is that you get all these inner dynamics and workings where, you know, what's happening over here could affect what's happening here. It's very fascinating. Anyway, we've got to go to break.

Well, Jim Serney's coming up so we can talk about the Rangers. Yes, the Rangers are taking on the Canucks 9 4 o'clock from MSG. A reminder, it is a Canucks game day. And that means you can game day the Panago way. Get any large pizza plus cheesy bread for only 2499. Use code Canucks at Panago.com. And Panago for it, restrictions may apply.

Jim Serney from New York is going to join us next on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650.