Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Great 8 Passes The Great One

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at a busy weekend in sports (3:00), including Ovi's record-breaking goal (6:00), plus they chat with ESPN Hockey's Greg Wyshynski (27:25), who was on-site to watch Alex Ovechkin break Wayne Gretzky's goal-scoring record. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- He scores! He scores! Alex Ovechkin scores 895! There's a new goal scoring champion! The craziest son of a bitch, you know. The Pacific Division leaders from Las Vegas, the Golden Knights, taking 3-2. How you handle adversity builds confidence too. If you can handle adversity, you should be a confident guy. Good morning, Vancouver! It's six o'clock on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody, it is Halford, it is Brough, it is Sportsnet 650.

We are coming to you live from the Kintec studios of beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello.

Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec Footwear and Orthotics working together with you and Step. It was a very eventful weekend in the world of sports. Right from Friday when we got off the air, news was breaking left and right.

A bunch of stuff happened over Saturday and Sunday, so we got a lot to get into on the show today. Guest list today begins at 6.30. Greg Wyshinski from ESPN is going to join us. Now you might be asking on a Monday. Really? Yeah. Greg, on a Monday because he was in the building yesterday for Alex Ovechkin's history making goal. We'll get a firsthand account of the atmosphere and the energy as Ovi became the NHL's all time leading goal scorer. Greg's going to join us

at 6.30 to talk about that. 7.30, first-time guest on the program, long-time Vancouver-based journalist Bob Mackin is going to join us. He covers news and sports and business and politics for The Breaker. We're going to discuss the news that broke late Friday when the Whitecaps' ownership confirmed that they are currently in discussion with the City of Vancouver regarding the construction of a stadium at the PNE Fairgrounds site. So big news there. We'll talk to Bob. He wrote about it on Friday. A couple of follow-ups news and notes as well. So we'll talk to Bob at 730 about that. Eight o'clock Kevin Woodley, NHL.com and Ingold magazine is going to join the program. Busy weekend for the Vancouver Canucks, a 6-2 win over the Ducks on Saturday

followed by a 3-2 loss last night to the Golden Knights. We got to see both goalies this weekend so we can talk to Kevin about that. We will ask him the question though and we're going to ask ourselves this question and the listener. What interests you about these last six games of the regular season for the Vancouver Canucks? There's six games left That's one of the answers There's that many Followed by a long awkward pause. I thought they played like five this weekend and there you go So working in reverse on the guest list eight o'clock Kevin Woodley 730 Bob Mack and 630 Greg Wachinski

That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. We will begin with the Washington Capitals

and Alexander Ovechkin. Ovi can finally call himself the NHL's all-time leading goalscorer. He set the mark a Sunday morning for us, Sunday afternoon in New York overtaking Wayne Gretzky's mark with his 895th goal. We played the John Walton call in the intro. Let's hear the one from TV. Here's Joe Beninati calling Alexander Ovechkin's historic goal. Strome criss-crossing with Chickren through center. Send in Wilson on the flank. Cross Ross Isovetskin fires, score! The chasing days are done! Alex Isovetskin is the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL.

Washington Capitals will go on to lose that game 4-1. You know what I was thinking is about all the people that gambled on paying big money to see him, you know, on various days. Yeah. Like the ticket prices were bid up all the way to the end of the season. And then, you know, against Washington, or sorry, against Chicago, he scored two goals and tied it and didn't want the empty netter. Yeah.

And then the next game was against the Islanders and tickets were being bid up to like 2000 bucks of pop or whatever. What if you go there and just see like an Islanders caps game? You know, you're just like, well, this was terrible. Ovi was awful. But, uh, so he got it done for those, those people that paid big money. Um, you know, the, I had a lot of thoughts, um, when Ovechkin broke the record, but I think, um, most of my thoughts just went back to earlier in his career, especially when he started and was this incredible superstar that the NHL absolutely loved having and the

fact that they could pit essentially for marketing purposes, Alex Ovechkin versus Sidney Crosby, and that just created this incredible narrative that got ridiculous at some points, how much the league would push this narrative. It's not like they hated each other or anything, but they did have very different personalities and early on, Sid had a lot more team success and you know the Ovechkin provided throughout his career some incredible storylines. Yeah. You know all whether it's individual accomplishments or team accomplishments when the Caps finally got over the hump and won the Stanley Cup with him in 2018 that was incredible but you know it took longer than a lot of people expected to happen with the got over the hump and won the Stanley Cup with him in 2018. That was incredible, but

it took longer than a lot of people expected to happen with the Washington Cavaliers with Ovi's success and also the team's success. The times that Ovech can struggle too, I think those are worth looking at and maybe there's a connection there that we can work in because what's incredible about Ovechkin is that it looked like he was following the typical aging curve when he started getting into his mid to late 20s. when he started getting into his mid to late 20s. I remember back in 2011, 12, that was the year the Caps fired Bruce Boudreau and replaced him with the before more defensive minded Dale Hunter, the Rick Tocket of the times.

Seriously, man. Ovechkin was 25 or 26 that year and finished with 38 goals in 78 games, 38 goals in 78 games. The year before he'd only had 32 goals in 79 games. So he was still a good goal scorer, but he wasn't close to winning the Rocket Richard Trophy those years. And there are a lot of questions about this guy. People were questioning his fitness.

They were questioning his commitment to defense. They were calling him, do you remember the one phrase that got thrown around a lot? One dimensional player. And there was a theory that D-men knew how to play him, or at least they knew better how to play him on one-on-one rushes. And the cap says the team had disappointed in the playoffs and the Shine, now this is a while ago now, so over a decade ago. Some people may not remember it or may have kind of intentionally forgot it. The Shine was very much off Ovechkin at that time and the notion that

he could one day break Gretzky's record was frankly ridiculous. Then there was the lockout in 2012, 13 that ended up with half the season loss, which was going to make it even harder to break Gretzky's record. But again, people weren't really talking about it at the time. I remember what people were talking about and it was about whether the cap should trade Ovechkin.

Oh yeah. And you know, things got pretty should trade Ovechkin. Oh yeah. And you know, things got pretty ugly for Ovechkin during that time. Sid was this hero. Was winning back to back cups or it was winning cups at the very least with the Pittsburgh Penguins and he had just scored, you know, this is 2010, so he was coming off the golden goal

for Canada at the Olympics. But there was a resurgence. There was very much a resurgence. The Caps brought in Adam Oates as head coach for a couple years, then Barry Trotz got the job. And I actually remember interviewing Trotz in 2014 at the draft in Philadelphia. That was the, was that the draft where you nearly got run over by a bus?

No, that was at the winter classic in Philly where I got run over by a bus. Yeah. Okay. That might've been the one where I lost three credit cards. Anyway, it doesn't matter. At any rate, um, Barry Trotz said, and I remember

the scrum, he said, um, and he was, he was new, new coach, Alex has got a bit too much glide in his game. When you're standing still, you're really easy to cover. In other words, he's got to get his feet moving. Yep. Does that sound familiar? No.

A couple of years later, Ovechkin was back to winning goal scoring titles and Trotz was taking a victory lap. And he said, a few years later, I did feel there was too much glide in his game. I thought he could be way more productive if he could get his legs moving to get to spaces he wasn't getting into last year. Trotz continues. He got married and once he came back from his honeymoon, he recommitted to getting into the shape so he could play that way. There's the answer. Now, it's funny because if you want to

call this a narrative or whatever, it is fuel for both Pedersen and Tocket supporters. Explain, Jason. On the one hand, the Caps didn't trade Ovechkin. They recognized his unique talent and he decided to keep, and they decided to keep working with him. On the other, Ovechkin wasn't beyond criticism. He needed to make some changes to his game and look at him now. So it's funny because you mentioned when we were working at NBC. So I went back and looked through the archives of our old site, Pro Hockey Talk, and there are articles, blog posts, whatever you want to call them, six years apart talking about Ovechkin trade rumors. Do they need to trade Ovechkin? We're talking 2011, which was one of their Stanley Cup playoff failings all the way

up to 2017. One of those articles was written by a young, handsome upstart journalist named Jason Brough. Back in 2011, you wrote one and said, yep, this is the headline. Yep, we've reached the point where people are talking about trading Ovechkin. And sort of being, I mean, we were boots on the ground for a very, very large swath of the Crosby

versus Ovechkin era, which, I mean, it's still going on, but it's the Zenith and the height of it was when it was the early 2010s, like in that part of the decade where Crosby was way out in front. Let's just call it what it is. Crosby was way out in front when they were in their 20s. The rivalry was always there, but it was always understood that Crosby had a leg up in the rivalry.

He won the Stanley Cup, he'd won internationally, right? He had had all the success. Obie had individual success in his 20s. He won three heart trophies. But like you mentioned, it took him all the way until he was 33 years old to win a cup. And in a very weird way, the way that Crosby

dominated the rivalry in their twenties, you could make the argument that Ovechkin's kind of roared back in his thirties. I mean, if you want to talk about trade rumblings, who's the guy that's got his name more prevalent in trade talks now for entirely different reasons and under entirely different circumstances, we talk more about a potential

Sydney Crosby trade in the modern times than we ever would about Ovechkin. But back in the day, trading Ovechkin was a very real and a very repetitive conversation that happened time and time again, first with his, when his on ice production plummeted, and especially during the Dale Hunter era. And then later when the caps kept failing in the playoffs, it always fell on Ovi. And that lasted right up until he won the Cup in 2018. Now for him to get here, and it's wild when you look at the numbers and the way that he's done it, he's the fourth leading goal scorer in the NHL this year. Joe the Sparky texted in, but Jason, Ovechkin still doesn't move his feet.

What Trotz was talking about with Ovechkin was a little bit different than what- It was also 11 years ago. Well, yeah. Yeah. I know what you're saying. I know. But what Trotz was talking about with Ovechkin was more on the back check. And he kind of extrapolated with, or he expanded on what he was saying when he said he has

too much glide in his game. And it was more that Ovi was gliding on the back check and it wasn't necessarily gliding to put back pressure on the puck carrier or whatever it was just like he wasn't getting back in time enough to get the breakup passes from his demon essentially if the puck turned over he was still gliding back I I don't think we should dive too big into the comparisons and all that sort of thing. I just wanted to throw out the narrative of Ovechkin as kind of a slight comparison to the Pedersen thing.

There are gonna be differences in their stories because they're different people, but I do think it's worthwhile to paint a little picture for people that maybe don't remember, maybe they're a little younger and they don't remember Ovechkin's, the start of his career where he could do no wrong, but then the time where he very much struggled and the team struggled and he had a lot of critics and there were people saying he's got to do this, no, he's got to do that. And then there were people saying, you shouldn't criticize him at all. He's Alex Ovechkin.

How many people were out there saying, just let the guy do whatever he wants. He's Ovi. He's a natural goal scorer. Don't try and coach him. There were people that said that. Yeah, I know. And it kind of reminded me of what Rick Taukett said when he said, we're trying to reprogram Pedersen's brain going north-south and people are like, don't do that. For me, it's just like, there's a bit of both. Yeah, you've got to allow these unique players, these incredibly talented players,

to show off their talent, but nobody's beyond criticism. And Barry Trotz and Alex Ovechkin won a cup together. Well, I mean, you wanna talk, the beyond criticism thing, I think, is really important in all this, because you gotta remember, last year, Alex Ovechkin faced a pretty decent share of criticism. I mean, when we talked to Tarik El-Bashir and a handful of other reporters that were covering the team, they said Spencer Carberry

was pretty vocal about Ovi not being in good enough shape last season, right? It's been an issue with him his whole career. Let's be honest, the guy has played at like 265 pounds and frankly there are some times you looked at him and I'm like, I think that, I think he's more. The point I'm trying to make is that when you talk about a guy that's not beyond criticism, last year at age 38, you would have thought that in addition to everything else that you put out there, there would have been an addendum being like, wow, he's in the, he's in the twilight of his career. And he's really just trying to get this record

and then maybe he'll dance off into the sunset. I don't think we understand how good of a year he's having this year. He has 42 goals in 61 games. He answered the call of his head coach last year at a time in his career where he could have said, you know what, I'm going to kick back. I'm going to score 20 on the power play for the next couple of years. I'm going to break this

record. Don't forget. He broke his leg this year. Yeah. Like it's, you know, so incredible. When you talk about a guy that has answered the call from his coaches and done so in a way where it wasn't polarizing or he didn't necessarily push back. Like he took the coaching of Barry Trotz and he took what Spencer Carbree had to say. Like that's the mark of true greatness is when you're not satisfied with what you've done and you're still willing to push. Where there's almost really no reason to.

You're Alex Ovechkin. You're gonna go down as one of the greatest players of all time and he's still pushing himself like that. You know what's always struck me about Ovi's game? His enthusiasm for it. Yeah. Man, he loves being out there on the ice. Dude, loves scoring goals.

And it looks like he's a pretty popular teammate. And again, let's get beyond the comparisons between Ovechkin and Pedersen. I just thought it was interesting because I was thinking back a lot as he broke that record. I was like, I can't believe he did that. I remember having arguments with people like, there's no way he's going to do that. No chance. Take the L on that one. A big L, but I'm happy to do it because that was pretty cool to see him break that record. Again, like I, you know, 10 years ago, it hasn't

been smooth sailing for Ovechkin and he's brought so much to the game. And I know he's got his critics for off ice reasons, but on the ice, he has brought so much enthusiasm and joy to the game. The man loves to score goals and he's just got that big personality. Yeah. You know, he can still barely speak English, but you know, he's got that great big personality.

And if you think about what he's meant to, not only the NHL, but like one franchise. If you think of the Washington Capitals, that's Ovechkin. That's what you think of. You think of Ovi and I know they've had some great players in the past. Nick Baxter, who was his linemate for many years. And even before Ovi, the one thing I always remembered about the Washington Capitals, like in the eighties, is like, they would always make the playoffs. And Mike Gartner would always score 30 goals.

Rod Langway, Minister of Defense. Peter Bondra, they had some really good players. They had some really good players. I mean, they had Jagger for a bit. Peter Bondra with the breathe right strip. Classic. Yeah. But there's all those guys.

Can't beat that's leg. There's all those guys. And then there's Ovechkin at a whole different echelon. Before Ovi, the Washington Capitals as a franchise in DC were struggling big time. They went to the Stanley Cup finals somehow against Detroit and I remember that arena was half filled with Red Wings fans for the Stanley Cup final. Like it just really wasn't all that big a deal in Washington. And then OV came and frankly, the Capitals have surpassed some teams in DC.

I think the Capitals are more popular than the Wizards. Yeah, we used to have that conversation too when we were at NBC because you'd cover it from an American perspective and they were always in the shadow of the football team, Yeah, we used to have that conversation too when we were at NBC, because you'd cover it from an American perspective. And they were always in the shadow of the football team commanders, redskins, whatever they were at the time. I forget when the name change happened. Pretty much, you know, we're second fiddle to a lot of college sports because it was a big college basketball town, obviously second fiddle to the Wizards at that point.

Are they bigger than the Nationals? And then the Nationals were sort of this transplant team. They had a rich history of baseball. Nice stadium. Yeah, but it was OK. Yeah, but it was also just sort of it was just sort of a time where Ovechkin became on par with whoever the best player for the commanders would have been at that time. And they were a central focus for like sports talk radio and the sports pages because they were perennially in the playoffs. And it did have a compelling narrative

from a journalistic perspective because they always fell short with this amazing player in the lineup. So it was a constant source of storylines and narratives and critiques a lot of the time too. You know, it's funny you were mentioning that you never thought he would break the record. Do we have the audio here? This is a very old clip of Alexander Ovechkin himself suggesting that it would be dang near impossible to ever beat Wayne Gretzky's mark which he did yesterday. How long

ago is this from laddy? Do we know the date of this one? It might have been his rookie season. Yeah. It's very early on in his career. Here's Alexander Ovechkin from many moons ago talking about how impossible it would be to break Wayne Gretzky's goal scoring record. The NHL record for goals is 894. Wayne Gretzky. Do you ever think about that being number one ever? I don't think somebody will beat this record.

In this hockey right now, in this league, I think it's impossible. Impossible to catch Gretzky? It's impossible. You could challenge gradski? It's impossible. You can challenge it. You might be able to do it. I have to have six seasons with 50 goals. I don't know if I'm going to be able to skate in six seasons. So like he had that personality.

He had that sense of humor way back then. And Ladi, I mean, there are two big factors here. Number one, OV being a force. And the number two is that there's more goals scored in the NHL now. The average save percentage at the peak of goaltending excellence in 2014-15 and 2015-16 was 915.

That was league average save percentage 915. It's gone all the way down to 900. That is a huge factor in this Ovechkin story. And it's not taking anything away from Ovechkin because you look at the goaltending averages when Gretzky was putting up like 92 goals a year and league average was 875. So the league changes in the goal scoring and whatever the reason is, technology, better shooters, worse goalies, I don't know what it is, but the save percentage has fallen significantly. Ovi is talking about in that clip, he's like, in this league, in this hockey, not breaking

Gretzky's record. No. The fact that the save percentages have fallen this much since in the last decade, without that, Ovi's not breaking this record. And I think that's why back in the day, I was so convinced, like there's no way that this is going to happen. No chance it's going to happen. There's a chance he could have broken it earlier, You guys, like I want to say shame on everyone

involved in the two lockouts in Ovi's career. Because we would have been talking about this breaking the Gresky thing two years ago. And right now we'd be talking about him closing in on 1000 goals. He could have got there. I do wonder if he's going to. He could have got there with two more, or a

season and a half under his belt. I wonder if he's going to get to a thousand still. I really. You think he and a half under his belt. I wonder if he's gonna get to a thousand still. I really- You think he's gonna keep playing that long? I don't know. Why would you stop playing right now? He could be there right now though. I know, I know.

That is so infuriating. We could be talking about a player with a thousand goals right now, but the lockouts took that away from us. Yeah. Kevin in Port Moody texts in, it must hurt you deeply, Bruv. The amount of slander and negative criticism of Ovi from you was way overboard. Ovi has surpassed every expectation and all along the way you dogged him every time. Kevin was following your career.

Kevin, first of all, that's kind of psycho stuff. But second of all, did you just, well, I did criticize him. I did criticize him. When Barry Trotz got the job, I said, Ovi's not beyond criticism. He needs to make some changes. And Kevin, uh, guess what? He did. He did. He worked with the coaching staff. He committed himself to getting into better

shape and look at him now. Slightly better shape. Like it's, like it's, it's kind of like. Moderately better shape. Did I criticize him back then? Yeah, and then he made some changes he took some accountability for himself and look at him now We got a lot more to get to on the health of the brush show on a sports net 650 coming up Greg was Chinsky from ESPN is gonna join the program normally on a Tuesday

Greg's gonna join us today because he was in the building yesterday for Alexander Ovechkin's historic goal. Greg Wyshinski coming up next on the Hellford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. It's Canucks Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah, your destination for everything Canucks. Exclusive interviews, inside info, and even the postgame show.

Listen 4 to 6 PM weekdays and on demand through your favorite podcast app. 632. Now 633 on a Monday. Happy Monday Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands & Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help. With over 3,000 five-star reviews, visit sands-trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Palast Street in Vancouver. We're all about accountability here at the Haliford and Brev Show.

Couple quick corrections from the introductory segment to this show. The clip that we played between Alexander Ovechkin and Elliot Friedman, that was from 2016. That was right after Ovi surpassed the 500 goal mark, which is why Fridge was asking him, now that you've hit 500, do you think you'll be able to break Gretzky's mark? Let me see what save percentage was at the time of the NHL 915. Yeah, and that's what he meant about in this league. I don't know. Yeah.

He said impossible to catch Kretzky and Ovechkin replied, it's impossible. Anything is possible, Alex. Also from the opening segment, I said there are six games left in the Vancouver Connect season. That's wrong, there are five. Just feels like six, maybe seven.

So the phone lines we go, Greg Wyszynski from ESPN joins us now on the Haliford and Brush show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Greg, how are you? You see, this is why we don't do corrections. We're digital journalists. We just subtly go back and change stuff and hope nobody notices.

Come on, guys. It's harder to do it on the radio. It's way harder. Oh, okay, that's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. You can't rewind time and fix something without someone noticing. That's a good point. How was it being in the building yesterday?

It's awesome, man. You know, like, well, it's awesome until you realize how long you've been doing this. I do feel like I'm going to crumble into dust and blow away in the wind because I covered Ovechkin's rookie season. I'm, you know, I was a kid. It was actually like one of the first times I spent a ton

of time in an NHL press box was when he was a rookie. But nonetheless, I'm overjoyed to witness it because I've covered Alex when I lived in DC and covered the Caps. I've covered him through MVP seasons. I've written about him forever, I've been there for the ups and the downs and the stories in the hockey news saying it would benefit the Capitals if he went to the KHL. It's been a wild ride and it's not been without criticism or detractors or moments in which there was serious doubt that he'd ever be able to pull this off. To finish the way that he has with one of the most remarkable

seasons by a 39-year-old athlete the world has ever seen is nothing short of spectacular. And to me, the biggest number yesterday wasn't 895. It was the number of games. The fact that he did this in the same number of games as Gretzky playing in an era that we've talked about so many times before with this record, playing in an era where it is so much harder to score than it was for Gretzky in the eighties and the early nineties. That's the most insane part of this, that they needed the same number of games. The insane part is the odds of the roulette wheel landing on the same number of games. That's insane, like statistically.

But I mean, the fact that he didn't need to go an extra 50 games to break this record is not only a tribute to his longevity, but also a tribute to him legitimately being the best goal scorer in the history of hockey, just because of the headwinds he was facing and the error in which he was playing. Wish, I assume you were in the building for the Chicago game as well.

I w I was not actually, Emily was there for that one. Um, I was picking up the action on the Island and then, and then going to go on, you know, from there to cover it. So yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't there for the, it's funny. I was, I was talking to a few people at the game yesterday and one of the common themes was we all were planning for this to go a little bit longer. It's funny, I was talking to a few people at the game yesterday and one of the common themes was we all were planning for this to go a little bit longer than it did. You know whether it was the Capitals or the NHL or whomever like they all had to kind of ratchet up the preparations for him breaking this record in a way that I don't think they necessarily anticipated.

So no, I was not in Chicago not in DC for the Chicago game. Well, one of the funnier moments I think from the weekend was when Ryan Leonard picked up that puck with the net empty and I was yelling at the TV, no you stupid idiot! This is the time for Ovechkin to score, but I guess it turned out that, um, Ovi did not want to score the record breaking goal into an empty net. Uh, what did you think of that? Well, I'm glad you brought this up. Um, I'm sure there had to be some level of temptation because it would have been completing a hat trick in front of your home fans and getting the record in,

in, you know, capital one arena and putting a bow around a really magical night. I understand why he didn't want to do it and seeing the way he scored yesterday, again, like from the OV spot on the power play, it's the quintessential way for him to set this record. I think he probably made the right decision. That being said, many of us have spent the majority of the last 20 years listening to

the Washington Capitals, and sometimes Alex Ovechkin himself defend the virtue of empty net goals. He's on the ice because he's not a defensive liability. We need him out there. He's a guy who can end the game with an empty net goal. His career empty net goal total should not be shamed or sneered at because they're legitimate. And then when it comes down to scoring the most important goal of his career, arguably, they're all like, no, actually they're trash.

We don't want to do it that way. So it's just really funny. I mean, look, there's no getting around the fact that a huge portion of his goals this season have been empty netters, and there's no getting around the fact that a huge portion of his goals this season have been empty netters, and there's no getting around the fact that he's scored nine more than Gretzky in his career, and that Gretzky had a good amount too. It's just really funny that they finally gave up the game,

20 years in to admit that empty net goals are cheapies. We're speaking to Greg Wyszynski from ESPN here on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. I don't want to pivot totally off the Ovechkin thing, but I got to ask where do you think the Washington Capitals go from here? It's been such an odd stretch for them because I don't know if anybody's noticed they've been bleeding goals like crazy and losing more than they've been winning, but everyone just sort of, you know, ushers that aside because it's like, well, there's a bigger fish to fry here.

Like they wanted very clearly wanted to get this record and as you astutely pointed out It seemed as though everyone was like let's get this thing done as quickly as possible So maybe we can get back to the concept of playing hockey it's an interesting dynamic because you know the caps are one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference and they're going to the playoffs and They've been really not that great lately. I mean they lost yesterday for one Yeah, and and they're also getting dinged up at the wrong time. Like Logan Thompson got hurt. He's one of the best goalies in the league this year. Alexey Podos got hurt. He's been a

huge part of their success as well. And he's week to weeks. I mean, like there's some trouble signs along the way. But, you know, the Ovechkin record chase and its impact on the Capitals play recently, I don't think can be overstated. Spencer Carberry, their coach, said something really interesting in his press conference after the game yesterday where he was talking about the amount of time and the amount of stress and the amount of attention the coaches gave to trying to enable Ovechkin to try to break the record. And he talked about it being thousands of hours of preparation and

game planning and things of that nature behind the scenes in order to best serve Ovechkin and his goal scoring. And maybe that's overstated, maybe it's not, I don't know, but it clearly impacted this team, whether it was the hype surrounding these games or maybe forcing that pass across the ice to try to get over the... There's little things along the way that you could see that this team was doing as Ovechkin got closer, but apparently behind the scenes, it sort of became an overriding factor in a lot of the things that they were doing. So they're 5'4 in one of their last 10, they're not playing great.

It's not the kind of hockey they want to play before the playoffs. Maybe getting this thing over with allows them to refocus. But like I said, you know, the injury bugs hitting the team that doesn't have a whole hell of a lot of margin for error from a depth perspective at the wrong time. Okay, well, I'm really glad you went this direction because it sets up the next part.

And I said, did you see the Dylan Strowm interview post game? I did not. I might've been talking to somebody else about it. Yeah, Dylan Strowm was almost like, he was getting choked up and was almost in tears about getting the assist on the OV goal. And then I was kind of profound

because it really gave you a glimpse and made you understand like how much this meant not just to a Vechkin and his like sort of nuclear family and everything but the people around him because you know when Strom's talking about it like I think one thing that we forget is the current generation of players didn't exactly grow up watching Gretzky. Gretzky was like some sort of hallowed figure that existed in record books and maybe some videos but they didn't grow like that was like some sort of hallowed figure that existed in record books and maybe some videos, but they didn't grow, like that, that was like, I don't know how you would compare it to like Babe Ruth or something like that for a lot of the current players.

I don't think Dylan Strong was alive when Wayne Gretzky was playing hockey. Honus Wagner. Yeah, really like, Wilt Chamberlain, like you never saw the a hundred point game or video of it. And it was, it was remarkable to see him get so overwhelmed and so emotional about that. Um, I'm really curious to see where the season goes from here, but I'm even more curious to see him get so overwhelmed and so emotional about that. I'm really curious to see where the

season goes from here but I'm even more curious to see how much impact this is going to have on those guys because it was like TJ Oshie super emotional and he was so honored to be a part of it. Nicholas Backstrom and everyone else it feels like this really touched a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. Fitting for one of the greatest records in sports history but very interesting to see it play out. Yeah, my experience with that was talking to Tom Wilson, who had the primary assist on the goal. And he got teary eyed talking about it.

He got teary eyed talking about the idea that his name was going to be forever linked with Ovechkin's on that goal. And it wasn't because his name was going to be in the record book for something other than a suspension, but it was because he because he he loves the guy so much he talked about loving Ovi and loving his family and being in awe of what he's meant for that franchise and for that city and you know one of the one of the true things about Ovechkin is that for being the level of star that he is, the level of celebrity that he is, and the athlete, the legendary athlete that he is, he's a dude,

man. He's the guy who's grabbing beers immediately when he walks into the bar or chugging one before he goes to a press conference. Carberry talked about that too last last night about the idea that, you know, whenever somebody new comes to the capitals, it's, it's a vet skin kind of extending open arms and welcoming, welcoming them to the team, not only as the captain, but also as, Hey, a new friend, you know? And so I think there is a new, there's a kinship.

There's an, there's a kinship, kinship, whether it's a current capital or guys that used to play with them on the reg, like Oshie and Backstrom, and even guys that played there for a minute, like Mike Knoebel, who I talked to earlier this year. They all have such affection for this guy and his approach to his job and to the game. And don't forget, I mean, look, there's a lot we're leaving on the And don't forget, I mean, like, look, there's a lot we're leaving on the table with Ovi. I mean, the Putin stuff and a lot of stuff that we can really be critical of.

But the undeniable part of this guy, and the reason why I think a lot of people overlook it, is the absolute joy with which he plays this game. And that was evident from the minute he stepped on the ice as a sloppy-haired, kind of weird looking Russian kid back in 2005. I mean, he was a rock star from the minute he entered the league and the enthusiasm with which he played the game

from the first goal he scored to doing a belly slide down the ice on the record breaker was something that, you know, created new fans, made kids want to be him, resurrected the capitals and bought us all to this moment where there's just a global celebration about this record falling at the hands of this guy. Really well said, Greg. Greg, and you've been one of the great reporters who've covered his career basically the whole way through the ups and the downs.

I want to talk a little bit about the potential first round matchup for the Washington Capitals because right now it looks like it could be the Montreal Canadiens. Right now it looks like it will be the Montreal Canadiens. So I ask you, what's the bigger story if this happens? The Habs making the playoffs or the Rangers missing? I mean, it's got to be ultimately the Rangers missing just because it's going to lead to a lot of really interesting things in the offseason. I mean, they already have started the process of reshaping the core of the team

with the Truva trade and by trading for JT Miller. The idea being that they want to maybe transition into being more of a JT Miller-esque team. What does that mean for Kreider? What does that mean for Zadaniad? Who's to say? What does it mean for La Violette? As the team struggles to find consistency and even make the playoffs. struggles to find consistency and even make the playoffs. I mean, it's kind of a disastrous season, but if you talk to people around the team, there's also a sense of maybe it needed to happen because the team has never been good at five on five

over the last several seasons. Their core is aging. They tried to be aggressive last summer in trading true, but then it didn't work out. I think this is maybe a necessary pain before they move on something different with that team and we'll all be fascinated to see what it is when James Dolan has his hand on the wheel. Who can even say what it'll be?

We've already had soft tampering with Brady Kachuk. What will they do next? But that's not to diminish Montreal being a great story. We've all been waiting to see who was going to break out from that pack in the Atlantic division. It turns out it's Ottawa and Montreal, I think a lot of us thought it'd probably be Detroit by this point. They go into the playoffs with a lot of momentum and feeling really good about themselves and a great young star in Lane Hudson. And then, you know, we come back to a familiar situation for capital stands, which is a potential

president's trophy winning team facing a Montreal Canadiens team that'll be the lowest seed in the playoffs with nothing to lose. And boy, that never goes the wrong way for Washington, does it? Yeah, that Yarrow or Halax series caused, I mean, let's remember that for a bit. What were some of the wildest takes that you heard about the Washington Capitals after they lost to the

Montreal Canadiens in 2010? Well, there was one take that said they should fire Bruce Boudreau and hire Dale Hunter. Oh wait, no that that. Oh my God, that actually happened though. Do you remember the Jay Beagle versus Alex Ovechkin ice time? Yeah. Yeah. That and OV should stop scoring goals and blocking more shots and can they ever win with Alex Ovechkin as the center of their team? Like there's so much of that stuff that, you know, as the center of their team. Like there's so much of that stuff that, you know, I tried to read, I wrote this, this Alexander Ovechkin eras tour piece. And we did a, you know, Artie did a video about it too, that really kind of chronicles the eight distinct eras of this guy's career. And, you know, we're in such a mode of, wow, you know, he passed Gretzky and whatever. People forget how insane the takes were about Ovechkin. Like no less than like a dozen years ago about, you know, he's an anchor on the, on the Capitals.

He'll never win with them on the team. You know, he scored 32 one season. They're like, is he cooked? I mean, and I made, I made, you know, but like the hockey news legitimately wrote a story about how the Capitals would benefit of Ovechkin just left the NHL for Russia. These are the takes that were happening about this guy earlier in his career and thankfully no one overreacted because looking back on it, it's just kind of insane. Do you think he did lose that joy for a bit? I seem to remember him being pretty, I don't want to say sullen or anything, but he did look like the fire was out of his eye for a bit. He did.

He did. And for the exact reason why the Capitals overreacted in trying to over tinker with their team and with the formula, which is that he hadn't won. I mean, the thing we haven't really mentioned in this entire conversation is Sidney Crosby. And you know, the fact that we had Magic Johnson and Larry Bird for a generation of NHL fans and you know, Ovechkin as the young Russian rock star and Crosby as the Canadian robot. And like, it's a contrast that sold an entire generation of fans on the NHL and, and made both of those guys better.

And the undeniable fact is, is that for a very long time, one of the points of demarcation between Crosby and Ovechkin was that Crosby won stuff and Ovechkin's team didn't win stuff. You know, Crosby won a gold medal, Crosby won a cup. Ovechkin couldn't get past the second round and usually it was because of Crosby won a gold medal, Crosby won a cup, Ovechkin couldn't get past the second round, and usually it was because of Crosby. And so it did get to a point where the weight of not having had team success in light of all of the individual success Ovechkin had in his career, it did sap a lot of that joy. It did create frustration. He got tired of having to answer the same question over and over again about not being able to get out of the second round.

And that's why the biggest moment of catharsis in this guy's life was winning the cup in 2018. Because not only did he beat the Penguins on the way to that cup, he gets the cup, he wins the Concemite, he silences every single critic that ever said that he couldn't lead a team championship. And that's when we kind of get into the elder statesman era. The weight is off, now I'll just put my head down

and score some goals and that's what the last several years have been like. It does say a lot about narratives and trajectories because I think for the longest time everyone thought that the story of the Crosby-Ovechkin rivalry was written. It was Crosby, Crosby had won it, right? He had three cups by the time he was 28 or 29. Ovechkin didn't have one until he was 33.

You know, Crosby won early too. He won a Stanley Cup when he was 21. He had a heart when he was, I think, 20. Internationally too. He did all that stuff in the first era, but then the second era, when Jason and I were talking about this in the introductory segment, like in their 30s, you know, that's where Ovechkin wins his cup and

that's where Ovechkin becomes the all time NHL leading goalscorer. Now who's talking about getting traded now. Yeah, it's hilarious. It's like, I found, I found an old pro hockey talk, uh, post from Jason talking about, you know, they're talking about trading Ovechkin in Washington. And now if you look at that's in their twenties in their thirties, it's totally flipped. We talk way more, way more about the prospect of Sidney Crosby getting traded, obviously for way different reasons, but way more we talk about that trade talk than we would ever talk about Ovechkin getting traded. Yeah, but like you said, that's got more to do

with the Capitals figuring out a way to rebuild on the fly around Ovechkin in a way that the Penguins couldn't around Crosby. Remarkably so too. And that also has something to do with, yeah, I also have something to do with them having to rebuild around like four guys in Pittsburgh versus one guy in Washington. But yeah, I know you're getting close to the more interesting question, which is gonna be the one

we ask a lot now. I know where you're going with this. Which is where is OV on the all-time list? Yeah, where is he on the all-time list? I mean, listen, you know, listen, I work for ESPN man. It's a kid to get first take sometimes. This is great You know, I I don't put him in the top ten. I never have I I I think that his defensive game gets bashed too often and too vigorously And I think that he's a more complete player than people will ever give him credit for, including from a playmaking perspective. But he's not

Sid when it comes to a complete game. And I think that needs to be, you know, I think that's an objective fact. But the room I have, the space I'm keeping in this debate for Oechkin, being a top 10 player all time, the most important thing you can do in hockey is score a goal. It just is. I mean, all due respect to goalies. Like the most important thing you can do in hockey is score a goal. He's done it better than anyone. It's not even close. Like when you error adjust, it's not even close. And so that being said, if he's the best at doing the most important thing in hockey, and there's a good chance by the time he's done, no one will catch him unless we fundamentally

change how we play this game and go like four on four all the time or three on three, half ice. Like, that's what it maybe will take to get to the 925 goals he'll end up with. Like, there's something to be said for him being top 10 if he's the best at doing the most important thing in hockey. No, it's a great debate and a great conversation. Unfortunately, we are straight out of time. Greg, thanks for doing this today, man. We really appreciate you switching days. It's very cool that you got to be there for this chapter of NHL history. Thank you for sharing

it with us and enjoy the rest of the week. All right, boys. Talk to you next week. Yeah, thanks, bud. That's Greg Wyshinski from ESPN here on the Halford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650. I love this text from Jay into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 650 650. Jay writes in, when I go to couples counseling, I love it when we get distracted by something

pertaining to the kids and don't end up focusing on my multiple flaws in the one hour session, I feel as though Ovechkin's record in this hour has done the same thing for the Canucks. OV, OV, OV. Ignore our problems. Here's the thing, Jay. We're going to do another hour of counseling on the other side, and we're going to get into the Vancouver Canucks. Although, if you're lucky, Jay, we might get distracted by another local story and that is the Whitecaps, apparently working with the city of

Vancouver to build a new stadium. We'll talk about the Canucks and maybe that on the other side of the Alfred and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650.