Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Junior Hockey Landscape In Canada Has Shifted

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with FloHockey prospects expert Chris Peters (1:22), as 2026 projected first overall pick Gavin McKenna announced his commitment to Penn State yesterday, forever altering the landscape of junior hockey in Canada, plus the boys discuss the future of Sidney Crosby in Pittsburgh, as Penguins beat writer Josh Yohe (25:28) joins the show. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Music 7 0 3 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday everybody. Halford, bro sports net 650. Halford and bro for the morning is brought to you by Sands and associates BC's first and trusted choice for dead help with over 3000 five star reviews reviews. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program. Hour two is brought to you by Jason Hominuk at jason.mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around

to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. We go now to the Power West Industries hotline. Our next guest is the content manager at Flow Hockey, also a hockey prospect expert.

We've had him on the show a number of times. Happy to have him back. Chris Peters here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Chris, how are you bud? I'm doing well boys, good to be with you on this July morning. Yeah, thanks for taking the time to do this.

I'm glad you brought up this July morning because we are coming off a July evening where I saw something I didn't think I'd ever see and that was a highly touted Canadian junior hockey product going live coast to coast in the US on ESPN with Kevin Nagandi announcing what NCAA school he was going to be playing at. Of course I'm talking about Gavin McKenna announcing yesterday that he'd be going to Penn State. The guy, I've got to get your reaction. You've been covering this

sport and collegiate hockey for a long time. What was your reaction when you saw everything unfold over the last 48 hours and how it played out on ESPN? Yeah I mean obviously it was it was different for sure. I mean you know we really have never seen this. We see it in football and in basketball when they'll have the you know the top recruits on Sports Center to announce where they're going to school and they'll have like six different hats in front of them and throw like three away and you know there wasn't much of that but, but it was wild to see that. And I think it speaks to the level of interest, not only in, you know, the growth of college

hockey, but also, you know, the fact that Gavin McKenna has captured, you know, the hockey world's attention the way that he has, the season that he had. And, you know, I think anybody that's been around for a minute has. And, you know, I think, you know, anybody that's, that's been around for, for a minute has seen that, you know, this is the guy that we all expect to go number one in 2026. And with that, you know, there's an opportunity for, for Penn State to really put themselves on the map with really probably one of the best recruits we've ever seen. Now I'll say that there have been really good players in college hockey in recent years. Macklin Celebrini went number one, Owen Power went number one, you know, Jack Eichel won a Hobie Baker. There's been a lot of really good players there, but they usually have committed when they were about 16 years old before anybody really knew they were

going to be a thing. This is a situation where this is a player that everyone knows. And now, with this new rule allowing CHL players to go into the NCAA, the very best player or the most probably influential player in this group has made this decision in this way. So, I mean, it is a huge deal for where we're going as a landscape and developmental hockey, but it's also, you know, seismic for college hockey to land a talent of this quality at this stage of his career. Chris, why did the CHL allow this to happen? Was their hand forced in some way? Basically, they don't have a choice, unfortunately, for them. So the real thing is that the NCAA operates outside of USA Hockey's governance. So like, you know, if there's no transfer agreement

between the NCAA and Hockey Canada or anything like that, there never will be. And so really it came down to, you know, these players were able to leave to get out of that because their player agreements with CHL teams, you know, kind of entitled them to their education package and different things like that. But it's not necessarily a binding contract because that would, you know, be more professionalized in an amateur league. And so I think that that's that's part of it. no transfer agreement. Now, if say Gavin wanted to go play in Sweden, there would have to be a lot of paperwork, there would have to be a transfer and all that stuff. And that's why we really don't see teenage CHL players go overseas because even if maybe they're

good enough to play professionally over there. So that's another factor in the whole thing. So really, you know, in this new era, there isn't a lot of choice the the only thing that can kind of help the CHL teams is if the NHL team decides to sign the player to a contract after they've been drafted and then either they go into the NHL or they go back to junior like we'll probably see with a number of players that just signed their entry-level contracts after the recent draft. And then did the NCAA decide something? Because it always used to be if you played in the CHL,

you were no longer eligible to go to the NCAA because they considered that professional. Am I right there? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so about eight months ago, the NCAA kind of had their hand forced a little bit by a lawsuit that was coming down challenging the legality of barring CHL players from college hockey. And it was basically before that lawsuit could really

get any further along, they kind of knew where this was going. And we've kind of seen it for about two years. The sense has been that this was going to happen eventually. And the NCAA essentially struck the rule that barred CHL players from being eligible to play in NCAA hockey. So it really was you know kind of a recent thing. Next year is the first year where all of those players are going to be eligible to play and so we've seen a huge influx of those players committing to college programs. Some you know even Penn State got Jackson Smith who was drafted in the first round just a couple of weeks ago. So really, it's it's very new.

And we're still trying to figure out exactly how it's going to impact everything. But yes, the NCAA essentially struck down a rule that created what the landscape was for the last decade, several decades. I'm going to sound like Bill Simmons here, but it's like college hockey having a moment because McKenna the thing with McKenna, like you might you brought up a good point There's been other great players that have played collegiately recently power celebrating everyone But this was more about I don't know. I don't want to like throw around the word defection

But this was more about like establishing himself as a star server knew exactly what he was and then choosing to go play collegiate hockey. Cause I mean, the big talking point was he's the youngest CHL player of the year winner since like Crosby and Tavares. So you can use that as a talking point when say you're on ESPN, you're trying to promote how great this player is. He's like, he's on that plane.

And you know, Bref and I spent a lot of the first half hour of the program talking about what this could mean from a jumping off point for collegiate hockey. Like this is Penn State he's going to, this isn't Michigan or Boston College or North Dakota or Minnesota. Like it's a program that has about 10 to 12 years of existence and he's choosing to go there.

So my question is like, if they are having this moment, what comes next for college hockey in terms of growth? Yeah. So it's, it's really fascinating. I think the player pool more than doubled in terms of the, the number of players that they have available to them to recruit now, because for so long, these players who make a decision at 16 years old that completely destroyed their college eligibility. And so they were only on one path.

And so now that now the recruiting landscape has dramatically changed. Now we've had a number of players, Caden Lindstrom who went number four to Columbus two years ago, committed to Michigan state, you know, Jackson Smith, who I mentioned there's talk of could Porter Martone go to school after being drafted, he hasn't even committed yet, but there's, there are some schools that are holding spots open for him. What we're seeing right now and what will happen next year is it's going to be the largest influx of new talent in the NCAA in its history, which is really fascinating to see. And how it's actually going to play out is going to be interesting to watch because typically like

the age ranges in college hockey and the reason that there are players that are making this decision now is they think that this might help them kind of be the hybrid step between junior and professional hockey which it has kind of become because college hockey players age and ranges from 17 to 24 so it's a huge age range and you're playing it's older stronger bigger players which often you know creates bigger challenges you're also playing fewer games, so it's more time in the weight room, it's more time practicing, it's more time with skill development. There's a lot of other things like that. So those are the reasons that these players are making these decisions

at this point. And now for college hockey, you have all of these top players coming in. Does that mean that all these guys are going to be instantly hit players? I mean, we've seen it. It's really hard to transition even from major junior hockey to college hockey because of the gap in age and strength and all those other things, physical maturity. So, you know, the fact of the matter is we saw James Hagens come into college hockey as a projected number one pick. He had an okay season, he ends up going seventh overall. So that is the kind of the risk that some of these players are gonna be experiencing as well.

But yes, I would say in terms of college hockey has kind of had this moment where they have created the perception over years, and this was not common before, but they've created the perception that this might be the best option for you to take that step between junior hockey and the NHL, probably bypassing the AHL in the process and just, you know, having a, having a chance to step right in as we've seen with so many players in recent years. And of course there's also the money. Based on your understanding, what kind of cashola

is McKenna looking at here in his year at Penn State? Yeah. So it's really hard to pin down basically like a confirmed number, but based on talking, you know, we're talking about in the neighborhood of 700 to $750,000 of NIL money in various ways. And that would be substantially higher. The only other higher figure, I haven't heard anything higher in hockey, certainly the largest NIL package in hockey, but I think that other schools were offering in the neighborhood of $250,000 and the fact of the matter is the hockey programs do not have typically that larger pool of money to pull from to pay these players. Now they will do it for certain players but obviously Gavin McKenna is an

exceptional difference and so I think it was kind of important for him to get the most amount of money that he could because he was the highest earning potential player. That does kind of open the avenues I think for other players they probably can't ask for that much but they they should be able to get six-figure packages from some of the biggest programs and then that does freeze out some of the smaller programs that will never have the chance to compete with that so there's a lot of factors in the NIL thing and the one thing that I would I would stress is that in hockey the pool of money they're pulling from isn't

close to what football and basketball is getting. And because of that, you know, they have to be really, really smart about how they spend their dollars. The thing is that Gavin McKenna is going to make millions and millions of dollars of a difference in Penn State's future. So whatever money they're paying him, it's probably not enough. So how does the CHL respond to this? Because you've got, I mean, if you look at the facilities at Penn State, Terry Pagula, I think donated a hundred million dollars to the program. And the Canucks don't have a practice facility and

they're looking probably at Penn State and going, that looks pretty good. And you've got the potential for NIL money, although that's not really applicable to, to most hockey players. But you do have the college experience. And I think for Gavin McKenna going to a school like Penn State, he's going to be able to, you

know, go to some football games and have a good time. Um, and while that's not going to be attractive to every player, it is going to be attractive to some players, you know, Arizona state's got a team now. That'd be pretty cool to go down and play hockey in Arizona. So how does the CHL respond to this? Because they're losing talent to the NCAA and that means they're losing ticket revenue. Yeah, so it's interesting.

And I think, you know, I've tried to explain it. You know, I think there have been a lot of fans of junior hockey in Canada that are scared and are concerned about what's happening. And what I would say to them is, while this does take away a number of star players, it doesn't take away all of them. And it also is going to lead

to more players choosing the CHL that wouldn't have otherwise because of college hockey. Now, Macklin Celebrini had a really good plan for where he was going to go. He was going to go to Chicago, was going to go to BU, like all that. If he wanted to, he could have stayed closer to home. He could have played in the WHL and he could have still gone to Boston University as he had chosen to do. And I do think that while not all players are going to do that, I think a lot of them will, they'll take that route, especially the players that are, they have the opportunity to play closer to home. There's a lot of top Canadian players like Celebrini, like Owen Power, Adam

Fantilli, they chose to come to the USHL. Maybe they choose that a little less frequently now. There is a player, Tyne and Lawrence, who's committed to BU, who's Canadian, who's in the USHL now, and it sounds like he's going to stay in the USHL. So there's different kind of factors involved. But what I would say is that you're probably going to see more of these players come into the league. They're going to play probably one to two years in the league and then they'll move

on to college. And so the CHL will get younger, I think. I think we'll see more 16 and 17 year olds looking like impact players in the league. We'll see fewer overagers, possibly no overagers as time marches on here as they move on and have other options to continue their career. So I don't think it's a death knell by any means. It's certainly, you would love, you know, if you're the medicine hat tigers, it means

a lot to you to have Gavin kind of picked first overall and have medicine hat tigers next to his name, which is why it's so valuable for Penn State, who has never had an NHL regular in their history, to have that player with their name on there. So, you know, it's gonna be an interesting thing. I think the CHL officials are not taking the panicked approach, which I think is really important. I think they kind of see the writing on the wall here

and what they're gonna have to do and what all the teams are gonna have to do is continue to invest in opportunities, whether it's facilities, whether it's training, whether it's whatever, to make sure that they are competing with what is offered at the college level. Now some programs they're going to be able to compete just fine with. The Penn State to the world that have multiple millions of dollars in their athletics department have a, you know, a full medical staff have all this nutrition and all these other things that they're able to provide the players, maybe they don't compete with that necessarily, but creating the environment

that's conducive to these players getting better all the time and selling that to them, they'll still go there. The other thing that CHL has on their side is decades and decades of proven product. They have placed players in the NHL, they have done the things that they need to do. Does this impact them? Yes, it does, but it does not kill them and it will not kill. And I, so it's, it's, it's, it's going to be different, but I don't necessarily think it's going to be materially worse, even though you're losing some of these star players sooner than you would otherwise. Hey, we got like a million things I want to ask you. We are not,

we're not quite up against it for time, but we're going to bang through some of these real quick. I know this is a big question, but in terms of the U.S. landscape, and this is another thing Jason and I were talking about, with the rise of these programs and the money and the players that they're able to recruit, do you ever foresee a day where we're talking about

like powerhouse ACC schools, like North Carolina having a fully fledged D1 programmer? The big one would obviously be the SEC, where like you've got Florida and LSU and Auburn and Alabama, these big schools with huge athletic departments and huge amounts of money getting into the mix with regards to college hockey. I would love to say yes, but I'm gonna say probably not

because the competition for the dollars and the football and basketball and the NIL that that takes is really substantial. And it is probably prohibitive for them to starting other programs because they want to invest in those programs. The one example is the University of Illinois. They had announced they were going to start division one hockey, big 10 school, made a lot of sense, great market. And COVID hits and that changed some things, but also the NIL landscape significantly changed their plans

and that they have not revisited that. So my hope is that it does happen. I think more schools will explore it, but I don't see it as imminent. We're speaking to Chris Peters from Flow Hockey here on the Haliford and Brev show on Sportsnet 650. Okay, the Isaac Howard trade to Edmonton. There's a lot to unpack here.

It happened late last night. Edmonton acquires the disgruntled Tampa Bay Lightning prospect, the reigning Hobie Baker winner. Break this deal down for us, and specifically with Edmonton, because Howard is the more ready, NHL ready of the two prospects, as Sam O'Reilly going the other way to Tampa Bay. But what are the Oilers getting in Isaac Howard,

and why was he so polarizing? Yeah, so he's an interesting player. Obviously, he won the Hobie Baker last year. He was led to NCAA in points per game, one point for one points per game. He really had an outstanding season. Michigan State fell short in the NCAA tournament, but won the Big Ten. The reason that he didn't sign with Tampa is that they really weren't able to give him the guarantees that he was hoping for in terms of NHL time, you know, having a role on the team next season, different things like that, at least that, you know, my understanding of the situation. And as a result, he used the leverage that he had to go back to school. I think Tampa was going to try to call the bluff there, but then they realized, okay, well, he's not

coming and then he could have been a free agent next year. It's actually a good deal for Tampa because they do get something back. They get a younger prospect in return, but it's a great deal for Edmonton because they now have a player that could slot into their lineup on an entry level contract. So he fits nicely under their cap. He has, you know, speed skill, you know, he does not have size, you know, probably could stand and improve his play away from the puck, but he could potentially play on their third line as soon as next season, you put them with good players. He's going to flourish.

You know, one of world junior gold medal, one, two big 10 championships really had, you know, his game has really grown to the point where, you know, Michigan state kind of was preparing to be without him anyway. And then he came back and it was kind of like found money. But yeah, so now that's, that's the situation. I think Edmonton did well. I think both teams really solved short-term problems exceptionally well with that trade.

And obviously now Edmonton has an option for their NHL rosters next season. Not that I'm one to wager on these types of things, but would he be someone you might want to look at for a potential called a trophy betting for next season, given that the most, but would he be someone you might want to look at for a potential Calder trophy betting for next season given that the most I mean I know you said he might open is like a third liner there But there's also the potential of playing with dry side on McDavid, which I have heard can boost your numbers from time to time

Yeah, I mean I think I think yeah for an extreme dark horse I probably wouldn't put a ton of money on it because of you know, just the field I think the field is gonna be very strong for the Calder next year, including Ivan Demidov. Chris, this was great, buddy. Thanks as always for taking the time to do this. We appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the summer unless we get another huge NCAA signing, in which case we'll call you back.

All right. Sounds good, guys. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. Yeah, thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. That's Chris Peters from Flow Hockey here on the Haliford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650.

Rob and Van Vancouver texted in and he was very upset that we asked Chris, we started the interview with some kind of basic questions. Not we, you. You asked simpleton questions. You're a simp. You're asking the basic, everyone should know the answer type questions, Jason. Rob thinks that everyone is like day to day, up to date with everything that's going on in

the CHL and NCAA. People are a little bit confused about this because. It's a confusing topic. Like you said, like, you know, this wasn't the case before and a lot of things have had to happen in order for this to happen for CHL players to go to the NCAA. I remember playing with a guy that was much better than me and he ended up playing one

preseason game in the dub and it's like college hockey, no chance anymore. He closed that door. That's it, eh? Now he wasn't a super smart guy so so it wasn't a huge problem, but. Other things were keeping him out of his educational institution. And that's just the way it was. So I think there are some people that might have heard a little bit about this, but they're

still, like, they're not totally up to date on, why did the, why, how are these guys allowed to leave the CHL? You know what? That was the biggest thing. Like, it even goes back to when like I was in school, I graduated almost 10 years ago and these guys had big decisions that they had to make at

the age of 16, 17. Right. And being like, okay, if I go to play junior hockey in the WHL or. College is done then. I can't go to the States. Yeah, yeah. It's done.

Exactly. It's absolutely over. And if they go to the BCHL, then every year they can be like, okay, you can still have options in a way. But if you played in the WHL, then each year you played in the Dub, I believe there was some sort of agreement where you could get one year

of schooling paid for in Canada. Right. So there was like all these things you had to weigh, like how are your grades? What was your ACT or SAT scores? Like what were the options for you? And you had to make that decision at 16 years old. Pretty crazy to think about.

Yeah. But you know what though, Jason, you know, I never, never am afraid of asking what might be perceived as a dumb question. I'm okay with, you know, if someone thinks that I sound dumb and they're like, it comes very naturally to you. I'm okay with that you know, if someone thinks that I sound dumb and they're like, it comes very naturally to you, I'm okay with that. It's okay, we're all learning together.

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people. Thank you, Andy. As they say. Thank you. Okay, before we go to break, I need to tell you. Do I got a quick question for you? Before I go to break, I need to tell you about the BC Lions. It's the biggest rivalry party of the year.

Lions, Rough Riders, Saturday, July 19th at 4pm, which features the annual watermelon smash on Terry Fox Plaza. Get your tickets now at bclions.com. You're listening to the Alfred and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. 732 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday everybody. Halford, Bruv, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Bruv of the Morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit them online at sands-trustee.com.

We are in hour two of the program. We're at the midway point of the program. Jess Yoheb from the Athletic in Pittsburgh is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Homonuck at jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. I am being facetious, let him do that.

Visit him online at jason.mortgage. We got a text from Jason wondering how we like to stampede. That's his hometown. Oh On our like not the Dunbar lumber text message in basket. No, no, no, just like a personal text. I haven't checked my phone Yeah, my alerts are broken Your alerts are broken. Yeah, they don't alert The alerts don't alert any more you have like you don't have like sounds going off every time you get a text You know, I have not my dad. like, you don't have like sounds going off every time you get a text. No, I have nothing. Like my dad, he has the large, like he's just like,

ding, every time a text comes in. There's a certain nightmare. There's a correlation between the older. Because I get many texts, I have many friends. There's a correlation between the older you get and the louder and more aggressive your alerts become. Oh yeah, yeah. My mom's is basically a fire alarm

when she gets attacks. She knows. And we all know. I'll have to reply to him in the break. OK, we're going to go now. Oh, maybe maybe it was just me that got the text then. I haven't checked. I think it was just me.

You've just embarrassed me on the air. Yeah. OK. And hurt my feelings a little bit. Let's go to the Power West Industries hotline right now. Josh Yohei from Pittsburgh in the athletic joins us here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Josh, how are you? Good guys. How are you? We're good. Thanks for taking the time to do this this morning. We appreciate it. So we're going to work. We're going to kind of go from star power on the lower end of the higher end with

all these guys in Pittsburgh and all of their playing futures. And this is meant is no disrespect to like Brian Rust and Ricard Raquel, but the conversation starts with them and then we'll end with Malkin and of course, Sydney Crosby. But first, first, what are you hearing about the trade considerations that the Penguins are having with regard to let's start with Rust and then we'll move to Raquel? Well,

I can tell you that there's a lot of interest in Brian Rust around the league. It's very simple really. How many guys in the NHL are going to score you 25 goals a year who are also really good penalty killers and who also have a reputation for being extraordinarily clutch in big games? It's got to be a pretty small number of players. Like I realized Sam Reinhardt scores 40 or 50 a year and does all those things, but you know, other than him, there's not many guys to do that.

So Brian Rust is a very valuable commodity. I know Sidney Crosby doesn't want him traded. One of his favorite line mates ever. I know a lot of people in that locker room don't want him traded, but from what I've heard, you know, if the price is right right Kyle Dubas will trade him and I know there are teams that are inquiring It's probably going to happen at some point between now and the trade deadline next season. That would be my guess With regards to rust, you know, I have you dig into his history and you understand

They does have a connection with Jim Rutherford from his time in Pittsburgh you dig into his history and you understand he does have a connection with Jim Rutherford from his time in Pittsburgh. He's an interesting one because, I mean, he came in as a draft pick, although known as a super highly touted one, but one of those guys that made it through the Wilkes-Barre pipeline and as you've pointed out,

became a pretty good NHL player. What was the relationship like between Rutherford and Rust? Because I know that he was drafted and developed while Rutherford was still in Pittsburgh. Oh, he loves Brian Rust. There's no question about that. I know that's one of his favorite players. He doesn't have any connection with Raquel, who we'll get to.

But yeah, Brian Rust helped him win two Stanley Cups. And the thing about Rust and Russ is one of those guys, he he should probably have a letter on a sweater. He the word leadership gets a little overused, but he is one. And the bigger the game, the bigger he plays. And what's amazing about him is 33. So he's not a sweater. The word leadership gets a little overused, but he has won. And the bigger the game, the bigger he plays. And what's amazing about him, he's 33, so he's not a kid. He literally gets better every season. If you look at his statistics, his points per game,

or just judging or basing it on the eye test, very rarely have I seen a guy who just gets better every season. He's not the most physically gifted guy in the world. He has just kind of willed himself into being a really good NHL player. Okay, let's turn our attention to Ricard Raquel. Well, listen, I think he's even more likely than Rust

to be traded this summer. He scored 35 goals last year. And is he always going to be a 35 goal scorer? I don't know, but he has notched 30 or more on a handful of occasions. He's just a sniper. He's a pretty good all around player. And he only makes five million a year,

which especially when you consider the salary cap going up like it has, that's good value for a guy who can score 25, 30, 35 goals. And the fact is by the time the penguins are any good again, he's going to be in his mid thirties and not the same player. So I, I think there's an even better chance than Ross that where Cal goes. We're speaking to Josh Yohei, penguins B writer from the athletic here on the Haliford and brush on sports net six 50 feels like we have a hand,

so many players to run through here because the next one, Eric Carlson. I almost forgot about Eric Carlson, but someone texted in yesterday to the shows and like have you guys heard these rumblings online about Carlson potentially going to the Detroit Red Wings? And I was like, yeah, I've heard that one along with a handful of other ones as well. So what does the future have in store

for Carlson in Pittsburgh? Boy, when I think of his name, one of the first things I think about is the game he played in Vancouver last October, which was one of the worst hockey games. Oh my God. Jason remembers this one. Oh my God.

He was like. It was unreal. He, his cement feet through the neutral zone. I think I could have skated around him. I was, I was chatting with my old friend, Rick Taka after that game and I just brought up Carlson's name and his eyes just got real big. You could tell he was thinking like, what the

hell was that? Carlson, listen, he certainly is not what the Penguins need right now and the trade has not been a good one for Pittsburgh. I thought it was a worthy experiment to take someone with his talent and put them on a team with Crosby and Malkin, it just didn't work. From what I've heard, there are teams that are interested in him if the Penguins are willing to retain some of that 10 million cap hit. And I think the Penguins would be willing to retain some of that. And the great thing for Carlson,

or the great thing for other teams interested in him, he's not actually owed that much money. Most of the money has actually been paid. The cap hit will still be $10 million. I think he's only owed like $8 million over the next two years, something like that. So that makes it even more attractive. So is there a team out there willing to take Carlson on say a $7 million cap hit? Will they only have to pay him a couple of million a season or $4 million a season? Yeah, I think there might be.

The question is what could the Penguins get in return? And probably not that much because if you've seen him play the last couple of years, I just don't know why a team with Stanley Cup ambitions would want him, but that's just my opinion. I don't think he's gonna help you win a championship, but it only takes one GM. So I think there's a real chance it could happen.

Is it fair to suggest that the 2025-2026 season will be Evgeny Malkin's last in the NHL and with the Pittsburgh Penguins? Yeah, in fact, I've reported that it's absolutely going to be his last with the Penguins. I don't think the Penguins are, from what I've heard, are not interested in signing him to a new deal. He turns 40 next July. he turns 39 this month. And I think this is probably his final NHL season.

He's made it pretty clear that he's not all that interested in playing for another team at this point. He's had a very, very happy 20 years in Pittsburgh. He's still an okay number two center at this stage. He will still put up decent numbers but if you've seen him play you know he's slowing down quite a bit. He's blown his ACL twice on the same knee over the years. It's certainly impacted his skating. I think almost certainly this is his final NHL season. I'd be pretty shocked if it isn't. Okay so everything that we've just talked about here leads to the final question about

Sidney Crosby. Final questions, plural, because I think we have a couple here. The first would be in light of everything you've just said, why exactly does Sidney Crosby want to stay in Pittsburgh? Well, I just think a couple of things. He's just a loyal human being for one thing. And I think he's very proud of the fact that he's been the captain of the Pittsburgh Penguins for literally half of his life. And that's just a big deal. His hockey heroes in his life are Steve Iserman and Mario Lemuel.

And those are two guys who are one franchise team. And that just means so much to him. And in my sense, and talking with him, he's not enjoying this rebuild. Trust me, he was pretty furious at the end of last season. The losing is not something he's accustomed to. It's not something he enjoys. Um, but I just think he wants to see it through until a wave of young players come around that can be good again. And he wants to be a part of that.

And I, and I also just, you know, he's a creature of habit. Like he just, I just don't think he wants to get to part of that. And I also just, you know, he's a creature of habit. Like he just, I just don't think he wants to get to know a new city and a new teammates in a new way of life. I just don't think it appeals to him. And one thing that will really help him this season and listen, the penguins are probably going to be really bad this year. I don't think there's any other way around that, but right in the middle of that season is a little two or three week

trip to Italy. And the Olympics are kind of that dangling carrot for him, I think, that can really give him something to be excited about, something to play for to go three for three in his Olympic career, try to win three gold medals. I think that might be enough to kind of keep him inspired until hopefully, for his sake, the Penguins get good again, maybe the next season or at least competitive. How much are fans in Pittsburgh talking about the possibility of winning the draft lottery and getting Gavin McKenna and going Mario Lemieux,

Sydney Crosby. So Mario and Sid were briefly on the same team when Sid's rookie year, right? And then, so, I mean, it is possible because only two teams get these superstar players. It's Pittsburgh and Edmonton. Those are the only teams that get those first overall amazing players.

Are people talking about it? Because I mean, the Penguins, especially if they trade Rust and Raquel, like they're going to be dreadful. Well, they're going to be bad already. And then they'd then be one Crosby injury away from maybe being the worst team in the league. I mean, that's how bad they could be.

Oh, every time I look on social media, I see everybody has changed their names to tank for McKenna. We've got to write back to them. I don't think they have to like look at this roster, like they're fine. They'll be in the running and even better you know McKenna going to go to Penn State that's only about a two and a half hour drive from Pittsburgh so I'm fully anticipating Peglin's fans will be

making the trek to a central Pennsylvania to see this kid play. Probably trying to get on his good side already just in case it happens. Yeah of of course, and listen, the organization's aware of it because rebuilds take time. Ask people in Detroit or Buffalo how that's going. But if you get a kid like that, that changes everything immediately and the Penguins know that better than anyone. There were some rumors circulating out, I think Pierre Lebrun might have reported that Fenway Sports might be looking to sell the team back to Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle. I don't know what happened to those rumors.

Was there anything to them? Yeah, I mean, Pierre had reported it. So there was obviously something there. In fact, I work with Pierre at the athletic and I spoke with Pierre later that day and I said, wow, Pierre, I haven't heard that one. And you know, there was something there. I think Fenway is willing to sell for a certain price. Like Fenway, they're the most corporate ownership group you could possibly imagine. Like the Penguins are an investment to them more than anything else. The interesting thing is obviously the Mario Ron Burkle part, you know, from everything I've heard.

Mario is very happily retired. He's a grandfather now. He likes playing golf in Florida all the time. He seems, from everything I've heard, very content with his life. So this caught everybody off guard and yet when you go to his people or Ron Burkle's people or all the people involved there's just silence. Nobody disputes it or denies it. So I think it's something to keep an eye on even though I haven't heard for sure that yeah that's something that really could happen but I know Pierre's not gonna make up a rumor and I think there's a little bit of smoke there and let me tell you that would be

glorious news in Pittsburgh if you have ask Paylen's fans especially the season ticket holders like and what are you upset about what do you want you want to be upset with Dubas or you upset with the coach or the players the first thing they'll always say is now we just want Mario around who were more comfortable when Mario's around so you know I'm sure number 66 is well aware of that. Yeah. What is, what is fan interest in, in, in Pittsburgh right now? Were there empty seats this past season? Are there going to be more empty seats this season?

There were empty seats really for the first time in the last 20 years. Yeah. Attendance was not great. It wasn't terrible. They were still over 90%. But the Penguins had a sellout streak that went about 15 years. It was ended by COVID. So, um, yeah, attendance was a bit of an issue for sure. I will not say interest is down. Um, TV ratings are as good as ever.

Um, that the interest is still there, but perhaps people weren't willing to spend the money that, you know, NHL NHL tickets cost, given how bad the team was. And here's the problem with Penguins fans, they're spoiled. And not just because the Penguins are usually good, but in the last 40 years you've had Lemieux, Jagger, Crosby, Balkan, Ron Francis, I can give you all the names, all the Hall of Famers.

So this is a fan base that doesn't just expect to win, they to be entertained and the penguins even with it Crosby who's still great They were stale the last couple of years nor were they very good. So that's not a great recipe for selling tickets Josh This was great, man. Thanks for taking the time to do it today. We really appreciate it. Enjoy some well-deserved time off this summer Let's circle back and we get closer to the start of the regular season. Yeah, you got it. My pleasure. Yeah, thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. Josh Yohei, a Penguins beat writer from the athletic here

on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. You know, I had to ask him about how much Jim Rutherford loves Brian Rust. Just had to ask him about it. I know he doesn't fit exactly what the Canucks need perfectly, but for a team that struggled to score goals last year and lost some goals out the door. Do you know how expensive he's going to be? He's going to be, he's going to be a first round pick, a top prospect

and probably a player. You know, for a team that lost. You just keep going. Team that lost a lot of goals, a pew suitor last year and kind of has a weak top six. And I know that the desire is maybe go out and get us another center. You also got to happen for the Canucks. You also got a shop in the islands.

Rust or bust. Rust or bust. No, it's not going to happen for the Canucks, but it'll happen for someone and it'll be a nice addition and so will Raquel and the Penguins. They're in full rebuild mode. And you know, I know Sid is loyal and he's a creature of habit, but he's got two years

left on his deal. So next season, you know, unless they win the McKenna sweepstakes. Or the Brian Russ sweepstakes. They've already won the Brian Russ sweepstakes. They've already won the Brian Russ sweepstakes. Unless they win the McKenna sweepstakes, Malkin would be gone. What would bring Sid back for a final year?

Just his loyalty, I guess. That's the only thing I can think of. The question's not gonna go away. And it's easy for, it was always easy when Sid signed that, the last contract, right? It was easy for him to say, well, I'm going to stick it out. It's not so easy when you're losing all these games and you can say, well, you got the Olympics to look forward to. And then what? Just a year of losing?

Well, again, unless they get McKenna, what's going to bring them back? Unless they get McKenna, what's going to bring them back? And I guess the answer is loyalty or legacy, wanting to only play for one team your entire NHL career, your creature of habit. It would just be so tempting to, with the cap space that's out there and all the contenders out there, and I'm not saying he's coming to Vancouver, but the idea of going to Montreal- He's going to Montreal. That's the one I keep looking at. ... with that team that they're putting together. You know, I talk about legacy. I'm not Sidney

Krause. It'd be like, yeah, your legacy in Pittsburgh is good. They're not going to blame you if you go. Imagine if you could go to Montreal to Montreal. Imagine if you could go to Montreal. And compete for a Stanley Cup. Imagine if he goes to Montreal and becomes the guy that not only revives the franchise, because they're going through a rebuild, but also is like the one that breaks the Canadian Stanley Cup drought in Montreal. By the way, if you want to.

How could you not want to explore that at least? With regards to Crosby and Montreal, if you're bored, don't do it while driving. Make sure you're parked or at your office or at home or whatever. Go look at the amount of money that Montreal has coming off the books in 2026, 2027. So not right now, but in the future, right?

They've got that line A hit that comes off the books. And this is where the Suzuki and Caulfield and Slavkovsky extensions, all of which are less than 8 million per really become interesting. And at Dobson locked up, they got Gulley locked up and they got a bunch of defense. And now I think that Montreal probably has the area of needs. They're going to need to build their defense. But I do wonder if they are positioning themselves to take a real serious run at Crosby, because here's the thing and

Wyszynski came on the other day and brought up a good point. Don't forget they got Dobson. I know I said that yeah. Yeah if Crosby goes to Colorado to hook up with his Tim Hortons buddy. Mm-hmm McKinnon's the top dog like I know where Crosby's at, I know like legacy wise and reputation wise, but right now you can't tell me. Crosby's not the top dog in the Olympic team, he's still gonna go. No, I know, but that's different.

Like this is, that's still Nate's team. Like I think you can make the case to Canada, like Crosby. I don't think Sid's got such a big ego that he has to be like, this is my team. Not the ego. The minutes, the role, like Nate's gonna be the one C, Nate's gonna play those minutes,

that's gonna be like number one unit power play, Kraus be able to be there with him. I do wonder if going to Montreal, it's easier to kind of shove aside like Suzuki's your one C and be like, hey, you're the two C now, and Nick Suzuki's like, yes, I understand. Yeah, I don't know. I think it matters. I think it matters.

I think it matters. In what way? Like, so, so Sid would not want to go to Colorado because- No, no, no, no, no. He didn't want to, I mean, there's still like obvious ties to the reasons to go there. But you're talking about how many places

could he legitimately go? I would say right now there's two. There's Montreal- There's multiple places he could legitimately go. I bet he would only, he would do Montreal because of his affiliation and affinity for the market and it was his dad's favorite team and all that. And then it would be Colorado because he could play

with McKinnon, I think those are the only two teams he'd leave Pittsburgh for. If I had, like I don't think he would be like, I'm gonna go to Florida too, that's not gonna happen. Right, or I'm like, he's not gonna go to Tampa Bay and I know Wish brought up, like he should go to Washington. Like that's not gonna happen. That would be hilarious. It would be amazing It would be amazing if he went to Washington and he's not coming to Vancouver He's not I know there's I know there's the the Pittsburgh connection with with Rutherford

But I don't think you join a team based on like I really like the president of hockey ops They talk about a guy that's a creature of habit. Imagine him coming to Vancouver and having to deal with the travel and all that sort of stuff. Everything is world we turned upside down. He's not even leaving the continent, but he'd be like, I feel like I'm on a different planet playing in Vancouver. Uh, by the way, shout out to the lone penguin in Vic who texted in that FYI,

Brian Russ can also play center. Just throwing it out there. Just throwing it out there. Sprinkle a little excitement on your Wednesday morning. Before we go to break I need to tell you about Jan Pro. From warehouses to washrooms and everywhere in between Jan Pro keeps workplaces tidy, clean and disinfected. For a free quote visit them online at JanPro.ca. Two hours in the books, one more hour to go. You're listening to the Haliford and Bref Show on Sportsnet. 650.