Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Monetization Of Specialization

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with Nations Cup president Jeff Wilson ahead of the big local tournament (3:00), they discuss if kid’s sports are too specialized these days (15:00), plus the boys chat with Sportsnet 650’s Satiar Shah about the latest Canucks news (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

702 on a friday happy friday everybody alfred brough sports 9 650 alfred brough of the morning is brought to you by pacific honda north vancouver's premier destination for honda vehicle sales and service they have a friendly knowledgeable staff that can help you with anything you're looking for visit them online at pacifichonda.ca. We are in hour two of the program. AJ from AJ's Pizza on East Broadway is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer, meticulously brewed for quality and taste.

Primetime is full flavor without compromise. You can get some at a liquor store near you, or you can visit the brewery to see how it's made. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Sorfy, what are you waiting for? Kintec, that's what you're waiting for.

To the phone lines we go. AJ from AJ's Pizza on East Broadway. Try AJ's traditional New York pizza or sink into their famous Detroit pizza only at AJ's Pizza. Order online at AJ's.pizza. AJ joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show. What up, AJ?

What is going on? You know it's desperate times when my business partner and wife is up at 4 a.m. to get some sort of sport and watch the Open. Yeah, I was going to say. It's been a tough week. I was going to say, we were prepping the show last night, and then I forgot that it was bright and early this morning. So we came in, and I was like, oh, Tiger might miss the cut

because he's at nine over. And then I turned on the TV, and I'm like, nope, 13 over. He's at 38 over. It's been a rough go for him. It's been rough, but sport is back. Sport is back. Hey, I do want to put it out there for next weekend. Yep.

There's a big, there's a big music, well, not big, but a music festival happening at Dude Chilling Park. And yours truly will be there serving slices. And there's beer and there's a DJ. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. Mount Pleasant. Dude Chilling Park. The crown jewel of Mount Pleasant.

The crown jewel of Mount Pleasant. That's close to AJ's, right? It's right a couple blocks away. Literally two blocks away. Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. It'll be a lot of Mount Pleasant. The crown jewel of Mount Pleasant. That's close to AJ's, right? It's right a couple blocks away. Literally two blocks away. Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. It'll be a lot of fun. Beautiful. Okay, so this weekend, if you want to catch any of the golf,

I don't think you'll be open at 4 o'clock in the morning. No, but we've got baseball finally. We do have some baseball back. Yeah, so Saturday and Sunday. I always mention Sunday at AJ's. Happy hour all day. Go by, get some pies, enjoy the weather, sit outside, have a beer, eat some pizza. Sounds like a good time to me.

It sounds amazing. Thanks for doing this today, bud. We really appreciate it. Take care. Have a good weekend. Take care. You too. Thanks.

That's AJ from AJ's Pizza on East Broadway. Try AJ's traditional New York or Andy's favorite. They're calling it the A-Dog, you know? Really? No. It's still the famous Detroit pizza, only at aj's pizza visit them online at aj's dot pizza so hey this is a segment where we're keeping it local we're talking to the best pizza place in vancouver and now we're going to turn our attention to the best amateur

sporting event for my money in the entire province uh It is the 43rd Annual Nations Cup. It'll be taking place at a variety of parks in Richmond, including Hugh Boyd, which is going to be the epicenter of it. This is a very cool tournament. It's got about 1,500 players across multiple age brackets, men and women. I'm looking at the men's over 59 division. I'll be there soon. And I think that that group should have to play in countries that no longer exist.

Oh, yeah, that would be good. Just be like, I play for Yugoslavia. Yeah, this country no longer exists. But when I was a kid, it did exist. Put it in age. To give you an idea of how, like, diverse and wide-ranging this term is, there is an over 59 division. Like I said, I'm going to be there soon. Men's and women's, there's

thousands of spectators all weekend. It is a very cool tournament. It's the 43rd iteration. Joining us now on the program, very happy to have him as the president of said tournament, Nations Cup Prez Jeff Wilson here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Jeff. How are you? I'm doing well, guys. Thanks for having me. Hopefully

you guys are doing well, too, and hopefully we'll see you uh this weekend if you boy i'm gonna try and make it out this weekend now no longer playing in the tournament we came desperately close a few years of winning but now just as a spectator for the listeners that might not know exactly what this tournament entails because it's a big tournament it's across three different locations in richmond there's you know close to 2 000,000 players. Give us the... Where's the beer garden? And the beer garden. Give us the big overview, Jeff, of the Nations Cup tournament in Richmond.

Yeah, okay. Well, look, it's a tournament that started, as you said earlier, 43 years ago. And it really was kind of... Back in those days, you had sort of direct immigrants or first-generation guys that had come over from abroad. And, you know, this idea came to be about, hey, rather than playing for club teams in the winter, why don't, you know, certain ethnic groups get together and represent their country? And it was, you know, four teams doing that. And, you know, I think as a reflection of the community we live in here, you know, that has grown and the number of different ethnic, you know, cultures and communities that have emerged here. It's gone,

as you said, from, you know, four teams in one division to, you know, all kinds of different age groups and a number of different countries and countries that represent, you know, all kinds of different parts of the globe. So it's a really, it's a really exciting sort of environment. It's got that world cup kind of vibe. And the soccer is as good as any soccer you find in the lower mainland, as much as it's sort of a unique situation where people represent their, their countries of origin or their backgrounds or their heritage.

These are some of the best soccer players, you know, not only in the lower mainland but beyond. We've got guys that have previously played for the national team or previously played MLS or abroad. So, again, it's top-level soccer with a very unique spin as players get to represent sort of the countries that their ancestors are from. And so there's a certain level of pride in something like that.

Do you have to provide ancestral proof? Like how strict does this get? We evolved over the years because it's become a lot harder to do that when the rules allow for up to your grandparents to be from that country. And I'm not going to ask some guy to go get his grandmother's birth certificate. I would. But there are some instances where we have to ask some questions and prod a little bit to figure out whether or not something's in.

And we do have the hammer where we can deny someone from playing for a certain team or from transferring from one team to another. So we try to keep the consistency of the tournament in good standing and not let people just run around play whoever they want so it's it's fairly well managed by us in that regard to the best that we can so three locations in richmond this weekend minaru park cuboid secondary south arm park now i should point out that with three locations there's a lot of other stuff away from the actual sport uh beer gardens you guys got a shuttle service now after parties

let everyone know the sort of uh outside stuff the stuff away from the pitch they can enjoy if they're going to go to the nation's cup this weekend yeah well the the main hub if you will is the central location is cuboid that's where the tournament's always sort of running so that's where you'll find the beer garden that's where you'll find the food that's typically where where most of the open age men's uh matches are played so that would sort of be in a lot of people's minds, the most competitive, unless you're a big fan of over 59 soccer, but the more competitive stuff and all the sort of action surrounding the

event really takes place there. But yeah, as you said, we have shuttle buses. Parking can be a bit of an issue. So we've got shuttle buses that will drive people from Hugh Boyd to South Arm. At South Arm,

you've got some of the older age divisions, the, you know, the over 38, 45, 52, 59. And there Arm, you've got some of the older age divisions, the over 38s, 45s, 52s, 59s. And there is a little bit of action there. I was talking to some people last year who said, hey, listen, as much as I've spent my entire life going to Hugh Boyd to watch this tournament,

most of the guys I know or hang around with or used to play against now play at South Arm. So I come out to South Arm and have a pretty enjoyable day here, running into old teammates or guys I used to play against. So South Arm is emerging as a little bit of its own satellite atmosphere going on there. But there is no beer garden. There is some food there

but the beer garden is only at Hugh Boyd. And you know, I will say this, that having played in the tournament a few times, it always hits different when it's like either a World Cup summer or a Euro summer or this year, Euro and Copa America just feels like the nationalistic pride really takes it up a level. So this could be a very fun weekend between the weather and the energy that we've got going right now around Canadian soccer. It could be a very good time to come out to the Nations Cup.

Yeah, 100 percent. I mean, I've talked to a few guys in and around that are going to be playing or coming out to the tournament who have, you know, recently come back from the Euros in Germany or, you know, went and saw some of the Canada matches in the US. So, yeah, there, you know, there's, I think there's a heightened sort of appreciation for what's going on, you know, here as it relates to soccer. And of course, I think summers like this have the ability to draw in some more of the sort of the casual observer who's, you know, had an opportunity to watch some pretty exciting soccer on TV over the last couple of months and may want to go and take in some of that in person. And whether they have a country to support or not,

it still has that sort of, you know, very much that World Cup vibe or Euros type of vibe where, you know, there's lots of energy and excitement and flags and colors and all that kind of good stuff. Who are the defending champs? And are you willing to say if there's a favorite this year? Wow. Well, the defending champs in the men's Open, and in fact in the women's Open as well, in both those divisions, last year's winners were India. And India has always had a very strong representation at our tournament in all divisions.

So I would say they're sort of the perennial favorite, if you will. But, you know, there's been many years where they've been either knocked off and not made it to the final or have been knocked off in the final. In fact, last year's final with Open Men was Croatia and India. And that was a rematch of the year before when India won it, the following year being last year, then Croatia the year before the year before so it's um it's it's it's pretty good parody here and yeah there's a few favorites but um you know we've seen a number of teams kind of emerge like canada and even iran and uh and some of these other teams who in recent years have had really strong showings and so there's no uh there's no guarantee that anybody's

going to win i don't think many teams have won back-to-back for a long long time yeah uh cayman islands have had a tough go with the tournament over the last few years. Hopefully they can pull it together. I'm looking at the men's over 52 result. It was a traditional battle between England and Scotland. Yeah. They did it. They really did it.

England finally came home in the men's over 52 Nations Cup. There you go. Fortunately, they didn't have to go to penalty kicks until England prevailed. It is the Nations Cup. There you go. Fortunately, they didn't have to go to penalty kicks until anyone prevailed. It is the Nations Cup. It's this weekend at Minneroo Park, South Arm, and the Central Hub at Huboyd Secondary. All in Richmond. If you want to check out more, go to thenationscup.com. Jeff, this was great, man.

Thanks for doing this. We really appreciate it. Have fun this weekend. I know it's a lot of work, but it's all worth it. Thanks for having me, guys. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Whoops whoops sorry hit the wrong button there that's uh jeff wilson the president of the nation's cup here on the half and rough show on sportsnet 650 okay it's ask us anything friday on the halford and rough show and following that interview i think

this is a great one to do one from comox now that you have seen copa and Euro, which country would you like to see in Vancouver in 2026? So BC Place is going to host seven World Cup games in 2026. Canada is going to be involved in at least one of those. But which countries do you want coming to the city of Vancouver? My first knee-jerk response when I saw this was Argentina because then Messi would finally play at BC Place. But he's not going to play in the World Cup. I don't know if he's going to or not.

He didn't announce it. It was only Angel Di Maria who announced his retirement after Copa. It sure seemed like it. It sure seemed like it, but he didn't announce it. Anyway, but that was just more of like a cheap joke. I mean, look. Who are the fun countries though like i'd like to see england come that's right and and and they don't they're not gonna they're gonna gonna wreck the city like it's a it's a different england supporters group now it's so expensive to go to these games right like you don't have

people and and you don't like do you know how expensive that trip is going to be to come over to North America? Like, you're not going to have the rubbies that used to go over and just, like, you know, wreck stuff in Europe. The fans were great in Germany at the Euros. So I'd like to have England because I think that would be a lot of fun. The obvious ones would be Spain, France, Germany, Germany Brazil I'd love to see all of those but those but those are more just like the teams that you want to see I'm more talking about the fans like the Dutch fans what I was just gonna say are fun yeah the Scottish fans are fun now they'd have to qualify for the World Cup I wouldn't worry about the Scots showing up well there's more teams this year. Oh, I know.

Or in 2026. But I would also like to have one African country. Like Cameroon would be really interesting to come. Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, some of the powerhouses of Afcon, I think would be very cool. Morocco, obviously, is one of them now, too. I think those would be great.

What about the Aussies? Sure, why not? Yeah, throw them on board. Yeah, they're all a whistler anyway yeah right just come down take the night out from garth so you can play if you want um i think well because here's the interesting thing about oceania the region that uh australia used to be in because now they qualify through asia um it sounds like they're gonna get a um more legitimate path because it used to be they would have to go through the most arduous qualifying process i think what end up what's gonna end up happening in 2026 is australia and new zealand might end up being in it right new zealand has a way better shot now i think they should get like a half more than a half a bit

because the field's gonna be so expanded i like this text let's go over the countries whose fans we don't want to see and see how fast Halford and Brough can get canceled. We're going to gloss over that. Don't want to go without one. Let's discuss that off the air. Yeah. You know what?

Now that we've kind of gone down the road of sports with local stuff, why don't we go a step further? Colin Twassen, this is a local youth sport question, okay? And this is probably a lot of parents right now. I don't know why you'd be listening to this show other than to get away from your children. But this is an Ask Us Anything here from Colin Twassen. My son's going into grade eight.

He currently plays three different sports at a rep level and is starting to feel the pressure from a couple of the sports to pick just one to focus on. Should he focus on just one sport, or should he continue to play all three or at least two of them to balance out his sports experience? Doesn't that depend what the sports are? I guess.

Summer sport, winter sport. Without knowing the finite details of Colin Jr. in Tawasin, I don't know what he's doing. But I think from an experience standpoint, one of the worst things that's happened to kids over the last two decades or whatever is early specialization. Yeah.

You know what early... But he's in grade eight, so he's... Still, you're only 12 or 13. That's also a formative year for you. You leave elementary school, you go to high school. I mean, part of the... Here's the thing. Part of this whole idea of putting your kids

in sports is absolutely about the sporting experience and the athletic endeavor. But most of it is about the money he can make for the family down the line. Now that's the important part. You remember what Rick Celebrini said about that subject when we had him on? And your ego as a parent. Being able to brag

like Colin Tawas and my son plays three rep sports. I don't want to get too high and mighty or preachy or holistic here, but part of throwing your kid into a team sport especially is that they're forced to do some in-the-moment problem-solving with peers that they're not all that familiar with. So it actually forces them to break down kind of barriers like, what's your name? You know what I mean? Which is actually a big deal. Which is a huge deal. down kind of bears like what's your name what how do you know you know what i mean like yeah which is actually a big deal which is a huge deal what's your name what's your name getting a kid to ask another kid what their name is is like incredibly difficult getting a kid to ask questions of anyone right most kids just go up there like i got this

so at its sort of highest level if you remove what sport it is the notion of being on a team is hey let's take soccer for example there's 11 of us and 11 of us have a task that is to try and beat the other 11 kids but we have to do it together soon they realize like if i just do it by myself we're not going to be as good there's a lot of very good learning lessons in there if you want to extrapolate that putting them in different sports gives them different challenges with different people from different socioeconomic backgrounds um cultures ethnicities all that stuff because and then all they're doing is being thrown together to figure something out which is really simple that being said three rep teams you're at the point there where you sometimes have to make decisions about, hey, I got to miss this.

I remember I had to make this decision once, and it was probably around grade eight, soccer or hockey. And it was because I couldn't make all the games or practices. Sure. And I didn't want to be like that guy that goes to half. It was at the point where like, well, I can come to the games in soccer, but I can't come to the practices, right? And that's, like, and it was fine because I was such a star

that the coach was willing to be like, yo, guy, we need you. But that's unfortunate because. I wasn't. Right, but that's unfortunate because I was thinking, like, so you chose hockey. I chose hockey, yeah. Like, don't take this the wrong way, but, like, what did it get you? Out of soccer. Right?

You know, I mean, realistically, you're like, oh, well, I'm putting my kid on a path so that they could go to the next level. Yeah. And I'm like, friend, I don't think you really truly understand. It was a time thing, though, man. It was a time. I get that part of it. Like, you know, you also have to ask questions about

you know how important are academics to you sure and in my family they were very important and they were number one and if my grades started slipping because i was doing too much sports then i would be out of those sports right and that but that's a that's a time thing with it's a money thing real life yeah anything too now especially i mean back in the day it really i mean it was expensive to play hockey but nothing compared to now even soccer and baseball now you get all these specializations like all kids seem to be in extra stuff we used to play baseball it was like when's when's baseball is like when the team plays now you've got uh you know these private lessons you gotta buy all the

kids show up with their own bats we didn't show up with our own bats. We didn't show up with our own bats. It was like we have three bats. Which ones do you like? They're all terrible. They're all slightly broken. That's the monetization of specialization is when you realize that there's an off season. Look at that. The monetization of specialization.

Hour two podcast title. Holy cow. But that's what happens is when there's a bunch of business-oriented folk that realize that they can make a buck off of extending the season into someone else's season, that's where you run into, well, you're not doing the hockey equivalent. I remember when it was me, when I was a kid and it was young,

I remember all the really good players where they did off-season power skating. power skating they're like while we're doing power skating when we're not playing hockey to get ready for hockey season as opposed to it's lacrosse season now or it's baseball season now well can i speak of it from a goalie coach perspective when i interviewed the doctor that did the surgery for thatcher demko's hips i asked him like what what can i do as a coach to prevent these injuries from goalies that are on the ice year round like they're just constantly going to camps they're constantly playing for their rep teams like then they get to the age 20 21 and their hips are shot yeah so like what can i do to help this and the only answer he had was stop specializing so early

play goalie as late as you possibly can and limit how often you're doing it. He said this as a guy who works with professional athletes. So if that's what he's telling me to how to handle kids and how to keep them from getting burned out, number one, and getting injured, then what are you doing as a parent when you just specialize your kid in one sport using the same muscles, the same joints every week for the entire year? It just doesn't make sense. Counterpoint from JB in Abbey. Here is the problem with playing three rep sports. It's a high commitment level when you play at the top. Training can be up to five days a week plus games. My kids play different sports, but when it came to playing at the highest level, you have to make a decision at that point. If you just want to play

sports, then play house and play them all. I am a high-performance coach who recruits players every year, and this issue is always something that comes up. It has come to the point where high-performance players need to make decisions about their future, such as college opportunities down the road when making decisions like this. I think it just all depends on what you want to get out of it. If you can play one sport at the rep level

and just be like, hey, I'm going to play house league and other ones. I had friends that were really, really good hockey players, but they didn't love it that much. There was a couple of friends that were like unbelievable hockey players, and I look at them and I'm like, man, you could have been something. He's like, yeah, but I wanted to snowboard. That also has to play into it.

Which sport do you like? Which one do you like the most and you know you know as a parent which ones it is because it's like all right it's time for practice let's go is he or she ready to go is is he or she going out to the car and ready to roll? Or is it like, oh, I don't want to go. Yep. And I also want to add that the worst label that might have ever happened to youth sports is high performance. Might be. Because, again, when we talk about the money grab at the end of it, there's a lot of guys that will tell you that your kid is a high performer

because that's more money in their pocket at the end of the day. Yeah. High performers, if we're being, we work work we're not saying this is you jb but we work in a field where we see professional athletes all the time and we get their backstories i don't think anyone and i know a lot of them don't have any clue that the 20 something kids that your kid plays with on a high performance team they're one in a million there's a million kids that are playing at that level at the same time and you'll know them when you see them yep you'll know right away i remember i remember here's a here's an example i remember meeting

uh alfonso davies when he was 16 years old and i talked to the scout who found him in edmonton when he was 15 and he was like i've been doing this for a long time the scout played in the north american soccer league he was capped twice for canada he had seen some things in the sport he knew what his star looked like yeah and he said davies was the best 15 year old player ever seen in his life and he was like 50 at this point so now granted there are some players that that scout probably saw and dismissed and went on to play just because they worked hard at it. I mean, we love the story of the late bloomers, don't we? Sure.

One hundred percent. And that but at the same time, the late bloomers oftentimes are also incredibly talented kids that just kind of got overlooked. But they're also very internally motivated. Yeah. And there's something there's all these different things. All I'm saying is that when parents talk about, oh, I want my kid to, you know,

go play at the highest level. I'm like, when you see what that looks like, you're going to realize that a lot of people were sold a false bill of goods that this is what high performance looks like.

Well, when you talk about- I'm amazed at some of the parents who see their kids and be like, this guy's going to be something. And I watch the kid and I'm like, no, he's not way up against for time like go if you go i mean this and this is real this is a largely canadian and american thing if you go listen to like the australian directors of sport they'll tell you flat out like there's no such thing as a nine or ten year old

elite player like they're not because they're just not physically mature. They might be good at that age for a multitude of reasons but there's no such thing as an elite athlete at nine or ten. It just doesn't exist. It's not an equal playing field for a lot of the kids, right? Some of them haven't had their growth spurts yet. Right? Some of them know the game

a lot better too and they can use that. Some people might be just starting out in the sport. Other kids have been playing since they were four. it's an interesting conversation probably one that we're not going to be able to have in full on this show because we have time constraints including the fact that we need to go to break we'll come back on the other side do some Canucks talk with Satyar Shah that's coming up next on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. 7.32 on a Friday. Happy Friday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650.

Thank you all for working with us this morning. Technical difficulties across the globe have affected AM Sports Talk radio stations as well. We were not exempt, not exempt from the tech crash, but we press on. Like a pair of Lee press-on nails, we press on. Do you wear those? On occasion.

My cuticles are terrible. No, you can't. I was going to comment on them, but I didn't want to say anything. We're going to talk to Satyar Shah, a little Canucks talk in a moment here. Sat graciously joining us mid-vacation. Before we get to Sat, I need to tell you a couple things. One, Halford and Brougham of the Morning is brought to you by Pacific Honda, North Vancouver's premier destination for Honda vehicle sales and service.

Visit them online at pacifichonda.ca. We are in hour two of the program. Hour two is brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer. Meticulously brewed for quality and taste, Primetime is full flavor without compromise. You can get some at a liquor store near you, or you can visit the brewery to see how it's made. The phone lines we go.

Sportsnet 650's very own Satyar Shah here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Sat? What's happening, boys? How's summer treating y'all? Can't complain. Today hasn't been great. Yeah, we can complain a bit today.

Yeah. Well, there's a global IT outage that's kind of made things difficult. You know what's going on, right? Are you checking? So, I mean, I woke up about 20 minutes. I saw something about IT outage in the States. Is it affecting us as well? Oh, yeah.

It's Microsoft and their global cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike. I don't exactly know what happened. I thought earlier it might just be leftovers from Y2K, even though it was 24 years ago. So, it's a mass IT outage. Businesses, airlines, banks, and hospitals have all been affected by this. And, sad, I know this is shocking, but it also affected Sportsnet 650.

We were not exempt from the tech crash. I thought we were actually running this station on Tandy 3000s, though, so I thought we'd be okay. It was a dude with an Etch-A-Sketch in the back, just making everything happen. So, Sad, we were joking earlier in the show that it's such a slow time in sports that if you went

to Sportsnet.ca yesterday, the top story was the top 25 UFAs of next summer. It was just like a list of UFAs. There was nothing that was like breaking news that you actually had to. So they just put this list of the top 25 UFAs of next summer. And one of them was brock besser and half and i had a bit of a discussion about how the canucks approached this this season um and it's all

complicated now by the fact that the canucks would expect to be in a playoff position by the trade deadline um they've also got to be careful with their spending. They've got a kid in Jonathan Leckar-Omaki in the system that could, in theory, provide some of the things that Brock Besser provides. So what do you think is going to happen there? How are the Canucks going to play this? How is Brock Besser going to play this? Well, you know, this is something that has kind of been one of my

off-season projects a little bit, trying to dig into this a bit more and trying to find out, okay, what's going to happen with Brock Besser? I know Jim Rutherford did tell Ian McIntyre, I believe, about a month and a half ago that if everything goes well next season, they'll maybe talk to contract with him and see where it goes. I don't think that was lip service. I know we look at the numbers and we look at, okay, the Canucks will sign all these guys. But the fact that they weren't able to land that big player, like a Gensel type that would take up about anywhere from $9.5 to $10 million of salary cap space, it gives them an opportunity here to still make that type of commitment to somebody, whether that's a Besser or somebody else. And I haven't ruled out yet, even though I keep hearing it's not likely that they talk even this offseason. It wouldn't shock me that if we hear closer to training camp, the Canucks and Brock Besser's camp at some point talk contract. That wouldn't shock me. But I do think the Canucks want to see where he's at.

And I think that if they feel confident he can score 30 goals, guys, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get him signed to a relatively team-friendly deal. He's a guy that hasn't signed a long-term contract yet it's been like three year deals for him now he's bang close to like 36 37 million so it's not like he hasn't made money but he's in a position with what he's gone through with where he's at mentally now and him being happy here and wanting to stay in vancouver that there could be an avenue to a relatively team-friendly deal by that i mean you get a guy who scored 40 goals signed to a contract under $8 million per term? That actually isn't a bad number, especially with the cap

going up. I know it's been a bit awkward with Besser over time and many wonder how he's going to age out, but it's hard to find top six scorers that can score 30 goals. If this team feels confident he can score 30, my biggest question is going to be is Brock Besser willing to stay here for maybe slightly less than he did elsewhere?

So I was having this conversation with some guys on the golf course the other day and they were just asking me about what I thought about the Canucks and I kind of came to the conclusion that there are two wild cards for me next season. Number one is how Petey looks

and how he plays. Hopefully it's better than how he finished the season. And the other one is if the Canucks are going to be able to move the puck on the back end. First of all, what do you think of those two wild cards? And do you have an additional wild card to add? So I don't disagree. I think with Pedersen, that's the one I would hope we should be confident he can find his game. He's so talented.

He's shown he can do it. He's getting paid a ton of money. You'd hope that he's able to find his game again. And if he doesn't, I think then we have a lot bigger existential problems about where the Canucks are headed at some point next season. So I'm choosing to be optimistic on the Pedersen front. On the defense front, I totally get what you're saying. You're not wrong. And I think

the Canucks themselves acknowledge this. Even Al Bean, when he met with the media after free agency, acknowledged that they could still use a puck movement. The question I have is, is this something they're acutely looking to address today, or are they willing to let it play out a little bit? And when you look at the rest of the Western Conference, and this is the thing that an exercise I've gone through

the last couple of years, trying to figure out how good are the Canucks really? And one thing you kind of have to also grade it on, it's not just looking at a team and saying, okay, you hope they have, you know, these top six defensemen that are fantastic. You have three forward groups and a good fourth line, and you want to build this ideal team, but it's also relative to the strength of the rest of the Western conference. And when you go through the rest of the defenses in the West, I'm not sure there are, say, four, five, six teams you say are comfortably better defensively than the Vancouver Canucks, even with their puck movement. So the question isn't so much about, yes, I agree they need to improve,

but I don't think there's a need for them to improve right now, today, before the season begins. I would imagine by the deadline they add a defenseman. I would imagine even by the deadline they add a forward. So I think those are things that are issues, especially the defense. But I think you can survive, especially for the first half of the season, up to the trade deadline. It's more of the playoffs.

You want to get somebody else. The other question I have, guys, is are they still short of top six forward? Because as good as, you know, Dan Van Heinen showed to be, can he stay in that spot for a full year can jake the brush take that step and if he can that's great but can hogan take that step too and i wonder that at some point next season we'll still be here talking about this team needing to add another top six forward i don't think it's a huge need today i think this team is in a real good position to start the season but by the trade deadline i think they still need one more forward in addition to maybe shoring up the defense how much wiggle room do they have

to address that mid-season well it really depends on how much they can accrue to now i think that's going to be more challenging than people think especially with it only being about 160 000 in cap space unless they want to go with a 22-man roster. And that also gets eaten up if players get injured. Even if they don't go on LTI or IR, you're going to call guys up. I think they're going to have anywhere between 3.5 to 3.7 million to add to the roster with not having to make a big subtraction. Now, you can make that number a bit bigger if you're trading a roster player off the team.

Now, I don't expect we a bit bigger if you're trading a roster player off the team. Now, I don't expect we're going to see anybody like a best or a big name player get moved, but do we get those stages of the season where guys like Putkoz and Hoaglander are more trade ships than players that are going to be here? Are they going to be part of something that's a trade or are they guys that stay here? But they're going to have about three and a half to almost three, seven, five million in terms of additions they can make. And that's not a bad amount of money to have.

I mean, that could be a $7 million player if you can retain half the salary. So I think they're in a position that they can add a pretty significant player at some point this season. The question is going to be, are they willing to move somebody off the roster that's making a little bit of money? Is it worthwhile when you talk about accruing cap space, is it worthwhile to try and move Tucker Poolman's's final year i mean i think it is the question is are teams holding you over a barrel on it though right like i think we've seen we've seen teams look at this in the past and at the

cost of a six or seven round draft pick i don't see there being an issue but considering where the canucks are need-wise considering how teams are getting assets for retaining money and even a team like say san jose is trying to be a bit better. Even a team like Chicago is trying to be slightly better. So for them, they're going to look at it and say, well, why are we paying this money? Like, what are you giving us? And I think teams right now would want like a mid-round pick.

And I think if you look at it, even though insurance covers most of the money, it's about a, for every two and a half, three million, the cost is usually a second or third round drafting that's kind of been this cost that's been established so if teams are trying to tell vancouver we need a third for them to take tucker pullman off their hands i just don't see them doing that now did it get to a position closer to the say we get to training camp and there are teams that you know all of a sudden looking at and say hey listen we can maybe get

a draft they can get a player. Would Vancouver be willing to maybe not only move Pullman, but take back somebody they can bury down in the minors? Could they find a player making about a million, million and a half, they can bury all the money in the minors and take the money back in some regard? So I think there could be some pressure points as we get closer to training camp, because it could be a creative way for the Canucks to make that deal, and a team acquires Pullman and actually saves

money, actual catch. And I think that's something I wouldn't be surprised to explore closer to their training camp. We're speaking to Sportsnet 650's very own Satyar Shah here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Last week when I was hosting with Jamie Satt, we came in after the Byfield deal got done los angeles and it had a jumping off point for us we were talking about now that we've had a bunch of movement and free agency and the dust

is settled quite a bit uh looking back and like re-ranking or looking at the power rankings just looking at the pacific division and where it's at right now and both jamie and i kind of agreed that we would seed top spot to edmonton Not many teams that go as far in the playoffs and get as deep as Edmonton did are able to retain as many players as they had, especially when you compare how many body blows Florida took in terms of departures. Edmonton kept it together pretty good.

Look at Carolina. Yeah, and they didn't even get to the Stanley Cup final. We had Vancouver at number two, and in part because we were so underwhelmed with the off seasons that Los Angeles and Vegas, I don't think everyone really truly understands how many body blows Vegas took. Where do you have, let's just do it the top

four in the Pacific right now based on everything that's happening in free agency. So I would go, I mean Edmonton won, Vancouver two, I'd probably still put Vegas three and then put LA number four. That's kind of where I would go with it. And I think LA is,

I don't know what LA is. I know what they were last year. They said they're not going to want, they don't want to be that trap team again or playing a 1-3-1 or whatever again. But every move they've made this offseason is doubling down on being that team. So it's like,

I don't know exactly what they're trying to do and what they're trying to be. Vegas, their season hinges on players like Alexander Boltz, who's so far shown to be pretty soft and a guy that hasn't been able to play to the staples, so to speak, as we hear about from other players. And I think if he had trouble doing that in New Jersey, is he going to figure that out in Vegas?

We'll see. Maybe he does. Victor Olsen, another soft player that can score. I can see these guys maybe scoring 15, 20 in the regular season. I just don't see that team being as scary again. And then is Mark Stone going to be healthy? Are their older guys maybe going to take a slightly step back? I don't look at Vegas outside their defense as being quite as formidable

as they were before. But I think Vancouver and Edmonton, like, the thing I'm trying to figure out too, guys, is is Vancouver in the same tier as Edmonton, or is Edmonton just in a different tier from everybody else? I think they're in a different tier. Great question. Right. But I think they're the only team in that tier in the Western Conference because I don't think Dallas is anywhere near the team that we're last year. So I think when you look at it that way, it's like it's Edmonton and then there's like five teams, Vancouver included, that's in that next tier. You can kind of rank where they fall.

But I think there's a clear, to me, separation even in the tier between Vancouver, Vegas, and LA right now. I was just talking about the division. What do you think about Dallas and also maybe Colorado and Winnipeg? Why do you think those three teams are not in the same tier as the Edmonton Oilers? Well, I think the biggest issue Colorado has is the injuries, right? If they get a Landisog and a Chuskin back, it's a different story.

But there's a lot of cap space not being used. You look at their defense. They went from having three stud defensemen, right? They had Caves, they had McCarr, and they had Bull and Byram. Now their defense looks like, well, they got Caves and Byram, they got Gerrard and Manson, and then like a third pair that's like, whatever. If you look at their team, like their third pair is not very good. Even their second pair is pretty comparable to what Vancouver has with Soucy and Myers, right?

But then you look at their forward group, they're a little bit of depth. Look at Dallas. Their defense, to me, is not nearly as good as they were last year. As much as you're banking on young guys taking the stuff, taking Pavelski out of that roster, I think, is a tough loss. And I think it's going to take some time for the younger guys to find their game. And their defense, to me, is not nearly as good as it was last season.

So I think, if you look at where Vancouver is at compared to those teams, I think Vancouver-Dallas is pretty similar. I think Vancouver-Dallas, I mean, Vancouver-Colorado, fairly similar. And all of it kind of comes down to them not having as much depth. So if you have issues with the Canucks' third pair, look at those other teams' third pair. If you have issues with the Canucks' lacking in top 6-4 third care you have issues with the knucks lacking top six four look at those teams you see

where they lack top six four so i think the knucks are not a perfect team but the reality of a 32 team league a 32 team league nowadays guys is there aren't going to be a lot of complete hockey teams what do you expect from seattle we haven't really talked about them in terms of the division because you know i think you look at the bottom of the division you know until further notice san jose and anaheim aren't really gonna enter the conversation calgary is clearly on the downswing they're gonna need a miracle season to even sniff the playoffs but seattle is one of those teams where you could see it going either way oh i can see seattle being maybe having a similar season to a couple years ago where they have complete buy-in. They play fast.

They're hard out. They get close to their mid-90 point team and get a wild card spot. It wouldn't shock me at all if Seattle pulled that off. It's just they don't have a lot of ceiling. So I just don't view them as a threat, as a threat to going deep in the playoffs, being a threat to win the division. But if the Canucks, they find themselves in a position

where they're regressing, they could be fighting for a wild card spot with the Seattle Kraken. Right now, I think LA is a better team than Seattle, but by the time the season starts, I might pick Seattle to make the playoffs over LA. That's kind of how I view it, Cracker.

Yeah. I wanted to ask about another Western Conference team that hasn't come up yet, Nashville. I know that the Stamkos and Marchessault signings were big and glitzy and everything, but I actually think there's substance to this because I just look at it from straight numbers. Nobody added like 75, 80 goals of offense,

which is what they brought last year. I know they're on the wrong side of 30, but I just think that in the case of Stamkosos you get a guy that's probably going to be pretty motivated in marsh so you get a guy that although he's on the wrong side of 30 his career started later so he doesn't have as much tread on the tires as you'd think i also think that watching them last year in the playoffs if there was one thing that they didn't have it was finishers quite honestly i was like the one thing that probably kept them from winning that series which was razor thin margins was they didn't have enough high level offense i really gained a new appreciation for them

in the first round they were better than i thought they were going to be in sorrows was unbelievably good i actually think national could be a problem this year yeah i think natural obviously is i think you put them in that similar tier as Vancouver because of the additions they've made. The only question I have about that is, are they a team that's actually better or video game better? And by video game better, I mean it's like, right? Because you just add all these guys.

Right, and so how was Marcheseau's right-hand shot, Stamkos' right-hand shot, if Luke Forsberg was right-hand shot, how are they going to coexist in the same powerpoint? When Forsberg and Stamkos was a right-hand shot. If LeForsberg was a right-hand shot, how are they going to coexist in the same power play? When Forsberg and Stamkos play the same spot on the power play to begin with, so you're going to take one of those players

out of their natural spot. And as good as Stamkos is, guys, and I went through a lot of tape watching him too because I was wondering, is he really a fit for Vancouver? He doesn't skate the way he used to. He doesn't play center anymore. He's a winger that,

he doesn't forecheck. He forechecks fine, but he's not the same. People see the 40 goals, 80 points. They think Stamkos when he's 28. He's not that guy anymore. So as much as the Preds are better, they're significantly older as well with the additions they made on their team. I think the Brady Shea addition might be their best addition, so to speak,

but he's also replacing Ryan McDonough. So how much better are they defensively? slightly better with their puck movement right but my biggest question with them is can they can those players play to the style that they built as being a super aggressive forward checking team that takes a lot of chance that uses their speed when a couple guys they added may not be quite as fast as they were before so i'm not sure if the preds are as dangerous as people think they're going to be. I see them being a team that's going to, you know, compete, obviously, to make the playoffs.

But I don't see them being a surefire top three team. Like, it wouldn't shock me if that Winnipeg plays a more complete, consistent style for the most of the season, even if they don't have the same amount of talent as Nashville does. Like, I'm really curious to see how they're going to work that power play. They have three guys who do the exact same thing.

Yeah. You mentioned Stamko's skating ability. That was something that Patrick Alvin wanted to address when it comes to the Canucks is their overall team speed. Do you think he's done it? I think he has. I still think they could stand to get a little bit quicker, too, because the way I looked at it was, I mean, they lost Mikheyev, right? But, you know, he's supposedly fast, but he's not, you know, obviously not playing the way he did before. So the improvement you've made skating-wise on the team, to me, is really Danton Heinen coming in for a guy that's

either like Pew Suter or PDG playing alongside Miller and Besser. So I think the connects are quicker. I think guys play to identity more. But I'm not sure the team is significantly faster than they were before. I still think they need one more forward and one more D-man that has a bit of pace.

Tell us about Elevate, Sat, because this sounds like a pretty cool experience in support of canucks autism network yeah man like so the canucks autism network obviously it's something that's very near and dear to my heart i have a brother who's autistic so anytime i get a chance um you know to help out our friends at canucks autismism Network. I do. And we have a fundraising event coming up at Sky Helicopters in Pitt Meadows. It's on August 29th at Elevate. They have incredible helicopters, and they're doing this event to raise money for Canucks Autism Network. Now, there's different packages you can get if you want to get on board for the event, which is on August 29th.

And if you join by today, there's certain discounts and certain extra things you can get. So make sure to check out skyhawksconkers.ca slash event slash elevate. And if you have time later on this month, definitely come by and help out a great cause. I know people have done what they can throughout the course of the year for the Canucks Office Network and Canucks for Kids. And this is just another aspect of doing that in the summer. And I'm going to be out there on the 29th and hopefully some of our listeners can join us as well. Will Airwolf be there?

I've made a special request. And it also says dress in aviation casual. What does that look like? Do you have some sunglasses, like some of those shiny sunglasses? I don't have the shiny ones, but I do have some old aviators. Do I need to get like the silver ones, do you think? Yeah. Like the real shiny ones?

For sure, you do. Yeah, absolutely. I think you could make it work, too. You're the best-looking guy on the station, so if someone's going to do it, it's not going to be Richie. We'll do our best. Maybe a low bar. I'll see what happens.

Thanks for doing this today, Sat. Appreciate it, bud. Have a good one. You got it, bud. Yeah, man. You'll see what happens. Thanks for doing this today, Sat. Appreciate it, bud. Have a good one. You got it, boy. You got it. Later. Satyar Shah, Sportsnet 650's very own here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Have you been in a helicopter?

Yeah. Have you? Yeah, once. How was it? Didn't love it. Didn't love it? Didn't love it. No, but go to this event for sure.

Well, I don't like heights to begin with. Right. Me neither. So helicopter and float plane, how do I describe it? It was too real. You were too close to the outside. You know, like I feel something. I know.

I was on a huge jet. Does that make sense? Does everyone know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I was on a huge jet flying back. And you're like, I'm not even in 20, I'm not 30,000 feet in the sky here I'm just I'm just in this big room I get in an airplane I'm like I got people with me there's food like

I'm in a living room it was just too real I could look when you could look down I think it's the looking down that gets you you know where I had and see how far did you see the cockpit like into the cockpit sometimes yeah yeah yeah you can see yeah that's the other thing you can see everything happening right did i tell you where i had a major freak out recently the peak to peak gondola oh have you been on that nope yeah i got three minutes into that and i was like we shouldn't be out here it's too far and i didn't like i wasn't like bouncing off the walls or anything but i I was definitely not looking around. Gripping the sides? I was. I was looking straight down at my feet, and I was like,

how long is this ride? Because it felt like it was about seven hours. You start reciting old Canucks rosters and trying to take your mind off them? Some people would be like, oh, you're such a wimp. And like, yes. There's kids bouncing around, and they're like, this is so fun. I just get this feeling like we shouldn't be out, like there's kids bouncing around in there. This is so fun.

I just get this feeling like we shouldn't be out here. Humans were not meant to do this. Yeah, like we're too high. We're way too high out here. It was the fear of heights that got you. Was it acrophobia? Where was that? Sorry.

The peak to peak. Where's that? Gondola, which goes between Whistler and Blackcomb. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got on there. I actually.

I mean, it is that high. Yeah, the funny thing is I hiked up the mountain, and then I was like, oh, this will be fun to go across, and it was like not fun. So last week, or was it on Monday or Tuesday, whatever the case, Justin in East Van pointed out a new art installation in East Van, and it might be right up your alley

if you want to be terrified by heights again. Oh, okay. So at Empire Field in East Vancouver Hastings Park, the city of Vancouver has erected a 17-meter high... They're calling it a stairway to nothing. Oh, like in The Simpsons. Whoa. It's a grandstand.

Are you saying nothing? So you can't sit in it or on it. But I've been watching it because you live right by there. And I've been watching this thing be erected over the last few months. It is terrifyingly high. Yeah. And for the longest. So you just walk up it?

You can sit there. It's meant to be like an homage to the big wooden roller coaster that's in the background. Oh, I see. The old grandstand at Empire Field. So it's a combination of the two. It's like a slice of it, though. Also, a 1950s ski run. I don't know why that was an inspiration,

but it's in the press release. Okay. Anyway, so for the longest time, it didn't have railings, proper railings. And I'm like, who's going up this thing? Yuck. You just climb as high as you can in the sky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With no protection whatsoever. And I'm like, who's going up this thing? Yuck. You just climb as high as you can in the sky. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

With no protection whatsoever. And I'm like, it feels very dangerous. I'd be on all fours. I don't, it's got 16 rows of seating. It can seat 49 people. It just goes, and it is like a stairway to nowhere. Now, a lot of people are, a lot of people are bucking at the price of it.

I was going to say, do you see what it ran the city? And I don't even care about that. It's more like, who was asking for this? In terms of like, what can we have that'll maybe take people's greatest fear and accentuate it and highlight it on a regular basis? Free to the soccer field. I guarantee you there's going to be people that are going to climb to the top

and they're going to be like, I am now frozen and paralyzed in fear. Someone's going to have to come get me down. For sure. For sure. 100%. For sure. Right? Because it is, someone's going to have to come get me down. For sure. For sure. Like 100%. For sure. Right? Because it is, it's 17 meters in the air, high in the air.

Like it is up there. I wonder how many freak outs are on the grouse gondola every day. Right. Every day. I was wondering about that because you were having a freak out. You got through it. No, the grouse one's fine because it's not that high. Yeah.

But the peak to peak. Anyway, you're listening to a couple cowards. The Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Moj is coming up next.