Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Open Was In Scotland So Let's Talk Bagpipes

Episode Date: July 22, 2024

In hour two, Jason and guest host Jamie Dodd talk a memorable Open Championship with Toronto Sun national golf writer Jon McCarthy (1:40), who joined the boys from Edinburgh, the boys discuss if Pettersson will bounce back this season (19:00) plus they take the temperature of the Mariners fans with Seattle Sports M's pre and post-game host Mike Lefko (26:24). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

welcome back to alfred and brough here on sportsnet 650 jamie dodd filling in for mike alfred alfred and brough brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. This hour of the program is brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer, meticulously brewed for quality and taste. Primetime Craft Beer is full flavor without compromise at a liquor store near you or visit the brewery to see how it's made. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio.

Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Raffi, what are you waiting for? Kintec 650-650 is the Dunbar Lumber Tax Line. And guys, we've got a hot ticket to give away. Billy Idol. A pair of tickets to see Billy Idol on July 30th at Rogers Arena along with Platinum Blonde, Canada's own Platinum Blonde and I gotta be honest, we're giving it away

to the best what we learned in the inbox 650-650, include the ticket emoji, not a super competitive field so far so, it's wide open, if you really want to see Billy Idol, this is your chance include the ticket emoji, text in if that's been your dream ever since you were a kid

one day i want to see philly idol do not blink do not miss this opportunity that's in front of you right now send in a good what we learned to 650 650 include the ticket emoji and guys i'm telling you you got a good chance at taking this one home all right we'll do that a little bit later but as mentioned joining us right now he is the national golf writer for the toronto sun and post media uh live from scotland i believe he is john mccarthy john thanks for doing this how are you no problem guys i'm great uh so xander shoffley takes home the open his second major win of the year after you know for so long being in that conversation of you know best to not win a major

what was your takeaway from his performance and the Open tournament as a whole? Well, my takeaway from Xander's performance is that we really are seeing maybe the most complete player in golf now. With Scotty Shuffler, he's obviously the best tee to green. But what we've learned about Xander is there's really no flaws in his game. And length of golf over here in these elements, you know, whatever your flaw is gets exposed pretty quickly.

So Scheffler was still sort of the class of the field tee to green, but he couldn't figure out these greens. I mean, they're very different, Lynx Golf greens and Zander. I mean, he shows what kind of competitor he is. He gets 31 on the back nine on Sunday. That's something that will be remembered. What was the weather like over there? What was it like to experience it in person?

Well, I've got five pairs of shorts in my luggage that have not been worn yet. So it was pretty, it was gray pretty much all week. It actually wasn't too bad for some of the other Opens I've been to where you're getting like hail and torrential rain. The only really bad day, as you guys probably saw, was Saturday, which was when it poured pretty much all day and the wind picked up from another different direction, which was a big theme during the week. The players were sort of confounded by the changing wind conditions.

Troon usually plays with a helping wind going on the front nine, which is the easier nine. So guys can pick up some birdies on the front nine, and then it sort of goes into the wind on the more difficult back nine. So that's just like a torture test. But what happened most of the week was they were getting a hurting wind on the front nine, making it hard, and the back nine was sort of stiff enough that it was still hard even with a helping wind.

So both sides of the course were hard, and we saw some pretty bad scores bad scores including cory connors on saturday getting killed by shooting an 80 and dropping from 7th to 62nd yeah um maybe talk a little bit more about cory connors tournament because um you know he went into this tournament feeling pretty good and it looked pretty good through the first two rounds but i guess the story with cory connors is he's had good majors before, but there's never been that Sunday when there's three holes to go and he's still in the mix and we're still waiting for that. Yeah, about the same between Matt Hughes and Connors.

They both actually played really well all week. They were among the leaders going into that Saturday round, which was when the worst of the weather came saturday afternoon so it's unfortunate for both of them that we never because they what they do need is that experience on sunday even if they're not gonna win it this time around they need to get in that mix so maybe if it wasn't this time it would be next time but that saturday afternoon killed them both i mean uh talking to cory after saturday's round he actually wasn't in that bad mood after shooting an 80 because it was just the conditions were ridiculous.

He hit a three-wood, and he had to clear a gorse bush that was 230 yards out, and he thought he hit it fine. He was walking up toward the fairway, and the marshal's like, no, it didn't clear the bush, so he couldn't get a three-wood in the air 230. He hit a driver on 18, 249. And then going downwind, they're hitting four irons. They're going 310 yards. So it was an insane day on Saturday. And it's kind of a shame because both Mac and Corey were playing phenomenal. And they kind of got stuck in that wind on Saturday,

like a bunch of players, but it really did hurt their chances. They both played really well on Sunday and they left in relatively good spirits. Corey going to the Olympics and Matt going back home to get ready for the playoffs. So Xander winning, that gives him two majors this year, but Scotty Scheffler has had such an incredible year that people were comparing his year to some of the all-time greats, including Tiger Woods. So how would you handicap right now the player of the year? Yeah, I think what's going to happen is it will still go to Scotty Scheffler. It probably is the better year on a whole, but I think most players on tour would want Xander's year with two majors. But Scheffler won the Masters, the Players' Championship. He won four signature events, and he's won six of the 16 tournaments he's entered. So it is an insane year.

But again, most of the players would probably want the double major year, but I do think the Player of the Year will still go to Scheffler. Rory McIlroy and Tiger Woods, actually. I guess you can talk about them in the same capacity because neither played well. There were higher expectations for Rory McIlroy, but it was pretty hard to watch both those guys play, and they only played two days.

Yeah, with Rory, it was, I mean, they're very different cases, obviously. With Rory, everyone wanted to see what he was going to do coming off that U.S. Open disappointment. And obviously, he played terribly but it was the type of conditions and type of course where if you're if you're a bit off it can get completely exposed and probably look worse than it was but he did look like he was checked out a bit which isn't good to see it's going to be a long time a long wait for the Masters for Rory. The one thing with Rory, all these missed opportunities, it does mean that he's playing well. The reason he can have a chance to blow all these majors on Sunday

is because he's right there. So his game is as solid as it has to be, but I think a lot of it is upstairs with him right now, and it's not going to get any easier at the Masters when he's forever chasing that career grand slam at the Masters. But that's what makes April so exciting for Rory, and it's fun for us. With Tiger, I think he's sort of stuck in this vicious cycle where he can't practice enough and can't play enough to compete in these majors.

And he doesn't want to play in the other tournaments because he's afraid of getting hurt and not being able to play in the majors. But as you see, it's a terrible cycle for him. I almost think if he's still at it when he turns 50 in two years and he's able to get out on some Champions Tour events, three rounds in a cart, easier golf courses, just to get some competitive rounds under his belt, that's when we might see him be able to show up at one of these

in a little bit of form because right now it is hard to watch. But people still want to see him. He doesn't seem to be in too bad of spirits and he's still still the biggest draw out there so it's it's fun for people to get a chance to see him do you think rory just needs a really long vacation well i mean he did take that mini vacation after he got split up with the wife he went to the uh wedding and i think i think it was in italy and seemed to have a lot of fun there, but now he's back with the family, and I don't know what he needs, actually. He might need

a firm talking to, but possibly a caddy that's not his best friend, but I don't know. What Rory needs, it seems to change every major, so he's a tough one to figure out right now. Would you like to see more golf on link-style now. Would you like to see more golf on Link Style courses?

Would you like to cover more golf on Link Style courses? Well, I'd certainly like to cover more on Link Style courses because there's so many great pubs here. I think I've been to Scotland or Ireland about 10 times, and I've only seen golf courses and pubs. Today's actually the first time in like 10 trips over here that I'm walking around Edinburgh trying to take in some culture because all I'm seeing is the outside of golf courses and the inside of pubs. But it's an incredible place to watch a tournament.

The Open Championship's cool because it's, for anyone looking for like the bucket list trip, people want to go to the Masters, which, you know, if you can, that's great. But getting over to one of these little seaside charming towns is amazing because it's such close quarters with all the players like you'll wherever you're staying on the way walking to where we were staying we walked by rory mackler i walked by tony fee now you'll you'll see all the caddies in the pub so it's it's a really intimate atmosphere you don't get anywhere else in the world of golf and it's it's it's got to be seen to believe. I'd love to see more golf over here because it really does challenge the players in a different way.

And the golf course, as we saw, you're playing one golf course for four days, but it's actually like three or four different golf courses. So it's endlessly entertaining. So I would like to see more Lynx golf for sure. How is golf culture different in the United Kingdom compared to north america i remember in my 20s i was over um in scotland and i was traveling with a buddy and we we went into

st andrew just because we wanted to see the town and um it was sunday or it was some day where the golf course was closed and you were just allowed to go walk on the course so i've got pictures on all the famous like i got a picture on the road hole. I got a picture on a picture on the bridge. People were walking their dogs on one of the most famous golf courses in the world. And I'm thinking, you know, if they ever close Augusta, I don't think they're inviting the general public out there to walk the course and just take a look around.

No, no. You'd have to scale the gates to get in there. No, that's a great question because it's an incredibly different golf atmosphere. And like what you're talking about, on Sundays the old course is closed. It's a public park. And I remember I was covering one and we got there on Sunday. And some of the players, they're still allowed to practice, but they don't close the course to the public. So Sergio Garcia was in the fairway and the marshal was trying to get a girl off the green.

She was doing cartwheels. So it's just an incredibly different atmosphere. And almost all, even like Royal Troon has a walking path all the way through it. One day I finished my work and instead of taking the shuttle home, I walked through Troon on the course and checked out everything. And then right across from Troon over a fence is Prestwick, the site of the first Open Championship. So you go through this little fence, and then all of a sudden you're at Prestwick on a walking path. Walked right through there.

You know, the golfers, I saw a couple guys looking for balls. I gave them a hand because I'm pretty good at looking for balls. I have some experience with that. So it's very different. It's not elitist at all. We talked to one waitress and she said, I don't golf, but I love to take my walks on the golf course. If someone you're talking to doesn't golf, their brother

will or their grandmother will. They grow up with it. It's why it's so charming here. You're getting your hair cut. This barber will be asking you who's winning the tournament and who wants your pick. So it really is more of a fabric of the culture, and any golf fan should make the trip at least once.

Is golf getting more or less elitist in North America? Because the argument for more is that it's not cheap to golf, and some of the courses out there that are being built now are just like, if you're not rich, you're not playing them. The argument for less elitist is that more and more people are playing. A lot of people took it up in the pandemic. Young people seem to be really into it. And there's a lot of great content on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok and things like

playing music on the course now isn't as discouraged as it used to be. In fact, it's encouraged in some ways. So do you think more or less elitist in North America? I mean, well, Phil Mickelson was wearing golf joggers at the Open Championships. I don't think that would have happened 15 years ago. So I think what it is, I think it is trending toward less elitist with the advent of YouTube golf, like you mentioned, and the Topgolf and some of Tiger's Pop Stroke facilities that are like these crazy mini golf that are actually quite fun. I think it's trending towards less elitist, but the prices have skyrocketed since COVID when golf sort of had that popularity boom. I think what we probably will see is the further we get away from COVID, these golf courses that were able to jack their rates because they were so, so busy, I think some of that trend will

go away. I don't think it'll be quite as busy, but hopefully then if prices go down, but the interest of younger people and it's sort of less stuffy, I do think it's probably turning towards less elite, but it's still in North America. It's a very unaffordable game. And to play the top courses here, the great thing is you can get on all these courses. You can get on Royal Troon. You can get on Port Rush. You can get on the old course.

It is very expensive. You're talking like 300 pounds to play these courses. But for every one of those, there's like 15 courses that are so incredible, right by the sea, just everything you'd want for less than, you know, for 70, 80, 90 pounds. So I would advise anyone, maybe book one of those great courses, but then look around for these hidden gems because they're still so incredible. And on the sea, there's more affordable golf over here for sure.

John, thanks so much for joining us today. I imagine you're flying home out of Edinburgh. Is that the plan? That's the plan. Yeah, tomorrow morning. There was a guy, a busker here playing bagpipes. I was hoping to have a theme song on my way out. It looks like he's taking a break, so I'll have to leave you with just me.

But, yeah, I'm going to walk around a bit more today and then fly home tomorrow morning. All right. Always love chatting golf with you, John, and have a great flight home, and we'll chat later. Thanks, guys. Bye. John McCarthy, national golf writer for Toronto Sun and Post Media.

I love when I do the show if you have a golf writer on or a golf guest on. I just get to kind of tap out for 15 minutes. Yeah. That's great. It's like when we have a Blue Jays guest on. My only question is, like, when are they firing this guy? When are they trading this guy?

Could you imagine if every busker in Scotland had bagpipes? That was actually a thing. That was all they were allowed to do. Hey, dog, you're a musician. Have you ever tried the bagpipes? I have not. I tried them once, and the guy was very impressed that I was able to get a sound out of them. Oh.

Because you- Well, you are a blowhard. Well, flip this. You have to blow very hard. It is difficult. You know what? It is. Say no more.

You know where I tried them? Where? In the Paris Underground, because I was in Paris, again, in my 20s, and there had been a – it might have still been Five Nations rugby then. It was Scotland versus France. So there are all these Scots drunken rugby supporters cruising around, and one of them had the bagpipes. Nice.

And I was not sober myself. And I didn't know there was any golf there, but I said, I want to try those. Figured to give him a whirl. And he said, good luck. And he was very impressed that I even got a sound out of him. I've been told they are actually very, very difficult to play. Very difficult.

And you know what? Very difficult to listen to. Yes, I know. I love to imagine the guy that invented the bagpipes. I was like, I am going to invent the most annoying instrument ever today. It is going to be very difficult to play. Everyone's going to hate me for this. And somehow it will become the national instrument of an entire country.

The principal at my high school used to play the bagpipes to open every Remembrance Day assembly. He personally was like. Yeah, and he was good. I mean, bagpipes. That's awesome. He was a piper., and he was good. I mean, bagpipes. Yeah, it was a piper. Yeah, that's awesome. He would he would lead the assembly with with the rousing performance on the bagpipes.

You didn't go to Argyle, did you? I did not go to. OK, aren't they the pipers? They are the pipers. Yeah, I mean, how did he end up at Handsworth? What was he doing? You need a lot of lung power or what's what's the only Saber stock? What's the hard part of playing the bagpipes?

It's the lung power. Yeah, you gotta be able to blow hard. And you have to keep blowing. Yeah, can't stop blowing. Can't stop, never stop. Can't stop, don't stop. 650-650 is the Dunbar-Lumbertax line

and again, guys, come on. We're giving away Billy Idol tickets. It's on a silver platter here. He also plays the bagpipes. Yeah, maybe he'll play the bagpipes. Yeah. That would be something. Bagpipes solo?

He's diversifying. If we keep begging for what we learn, I don't think that's going to help the market price. Yeah. There is a text in for Jamie Dodd that says, just a question for Jamie. He always talks about he is not worried about how he is not worried about Pedersen,

but how can you not be worried about a player that disappeared in the latter half of last season when he was playing the most important games of his career unsigned from Jason Brough? No, it's from Jay Brough. That's what you were texting over there. Yeah.

It's pretty easy, right? It's do I wait? What is it? 30, 40 games or 350 games that came before that in his career, right? And I'm not saying that there's no reason whatsoever for concern. Like, weird things happen to players, right?

Players who have a great 350 games, sometimes then things don't go so well over their next 350 games. But if you're just talking about which is most likely, what's most likely is that he's the guy who has 412 points in 407 career NHL games. Like he's, he has been so productive in his career and really effective as a two-way player. He was so bad. He was really bad. Of course.

He was so, so bad. Like, I think it's just, I think it's just a case of recency bias. And I understand in the playoffs. Okay. That's a different thing,

right? The, right the when he talks about he's playing the most important games of his career i get that applies to the playoffs that's fair but like the games in february and march weren't the most important games of his career it's not like he was wilting under the pressure in those games don't you find what i mean i know i know there is the injury narrative but don't you think it's interesting that it also coincided with the team putting pressure on him to sign a contract and then signing that contract? Because if you think about it, where did it start? The All-Star game? Post All-Star game?

Was when he really went, started going like, oh, let's go home with Pedersen, right? He was awesome in January. Exactly, right? He was awesome in January. Exactly, right? And that's when we started to hear that the Canucks were putting pressure on him to talk, at the very least talk. They just want to talk. They just want to have a talk, a little talk. And then he did eventually acquiesce to not only talking, but signing a big contract. And the narrative then was, well, okay, that pressure's out of the way. He's going to start to play.

Didn't start to play. And the season ended, the regular season ended and Rick Talk had tried everything. He put, you know, Besser with him. He put Garland with him. He tried, you know, everything pretty much that he could, even though there were limits, right?

To what he could do with Pedersen. Okay, in the playoffs, he's going to show up. Didn't show up in the playoffs. And then it was weird at the end When he said yeah it's some tendinitis And the team downplayed that Yeah That was weird there's no doubt about it

But I think you're right to point to The pressure being put on him from The team and then if he Felt like he was something was bothering him With his leg right but who Knows what how that stood between him and the team like there was just a lot going on from his perspective and again look maybe there is more going on behind the scenes that we're not privy to and he will struggle next

year of course that's always a possibility that's a possibility with any player but i would be stunned like i mean we have people texting him like ah he's gonna struggle to score 60 points you know we saw the real Patterson. It's like we're just throwing out five years of him doing of him being an excellent offensive player, an excellent all around player. Again, I'm not trying to put lipstick on a pig here and say that his the last half of the season was good. It wasn't. It was really, really bad. But I don't think you have to stretch for reasons to be confident in him either.

Like he has a pretty long resume of putting up points and impacting the game, of helping this team win. I guess it just went so bad. It went really bad. Of course it did. I guess it wasn't just like he was snakebitten or there were just things that we saw on the ice that were just, I don't know. I don't want to. Anyway, someone texted in uh don't worry jamie you're fighting a losing battle against brough he's the leader of the pd discourse hey who was

right and who was wrong to lead that pd discourse last year right i will say this i and by the way i got the let's go pd chant going that's true right i i was the one out there trying to lift him up now of course that gives me cover for when i rip him i was like? I was the one out there trying to lift him up. Now, of course, that gives me cover for when I rip him. I was like, hey, I was the one trying to help him. It didn't work, but now I can rip him. How do I keep people from hating me too much for ripping Petey? I was the guy

that had the whole arena chanting, let's go Petey. It wasn't you. Diabolical. I will say, I think we should separate the playoffs and the regular season in this conversation. I see very, very little reason to be concerned about him being productive in the regular season next year. We all know the playoffs are different.

I think you can say, yeah, Pedersen will probably have 90 points next year, but I'm also concerned about what it will look like in the playoffs. I think that's totally reasonable. I think the people that are like he's not even going to be good in the regular season, that baffles me. That absolutely

baffles me. I think the one thing that gives me a little bit of hope, as worried as I am about Patterson and his future on the team, is the fact that I don't think this Canucks management group is dumb and I don't think they would have committed that contract to him if they didn't think he would bounce back.

That's what I always come back to. I hear these stories that I can't even say on the radio about Pedersen. Try not to use your imagination. They're not that bad. But I hear them, and I'm kind of like, I keep coming back to, yeah, but they gave him this massive contract. That's how I talk myself back into it. They wouldn't have done that if they didn't think that he was salvageable.

The last management group might have, and they actually probably would have, but this current one would not have. So that's the one thing I'm like, okay, there's light at the end of the tunnel. All right, it's Alvin and Brough here, Sportsnet 650. We'll talk Mariners in the next segment, but right now it's time for the Canadian Football Report brought to you by Securian Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL.

And of course, it was a big week seven in the CFL. Lions, as we mentioned, drop a close one to the Stamps in Calgary. 25-24 is the final, so their five-game winning streak is over. They sit at 5-2. Elsewhere, the Tiger Cats beat the Argonauts 27-24. The Rough Riders take care of the Blue Bombers 19-9, and it was the Red Blacks beating the Elks 20-14. So in the standing, Saskatchewan now 5-1.

They move back into first place in the West Division over the 5-2 BC Lions. Montreal still in first place in the East Division. They're 5-1 ahead of 4-2 Ottawa. That was the Canadian Football Report brought to you by Securian Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL. JanPro, the leaders in commercial cleaning and janitorial. If your workplace demands a clean environment, contact Janpro for a free no-obligation quote.

Visit Janpro.ca. Mike Lefkoe next here on Halford & Brough here on Sportsnet 650. Jamie Dodd filling in for Mike Halford. Halford & Brough brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. This hour of the show brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer, meticulously brewed for quality and taste.

Primetime Craft Beer is full flavor without compromise. Add a liquor store near you or visit the brewery to see how it's made. I just want to go on record here by saying, Laddie did not want to play this song. I had to pretty much convince him and beg him to play it because it's so good. Are you happy now? Very happy. Okay, good. I feel almost patriotic listening to this.

Thank you. That's right. Not even for Canada, though. Oh, okay. Well. Just for unnamed country. No, it sounds American, doesn't it? What sounds American about it?

Everything about it. It's tagged as military band. Thank you. Maybe that's why. Right? Sure. Yeah. We're going to talk to Mike Lefkoe in just a second here.

As a reminder, Billy Idol covers this song. 650. Yeah. Billy Idol is going to play this at Rogers Arena on July 30th. And you can win a pair of tickets to go see that performance. Billy Idol on the bagpipes. Billy Idol doing everything you could possibly dream of. But seriously, we are giving away a pair of tickets to go see that performance. Billy Idol on the bagpipes. Billy Idol doing everything you could possibly dream of.

But seriously, we are giving away a pair of tickets to Billy Idol and Platinum Blonde at Rogers Arena on July 30th. Send in your best What We Learned 650-650 to the Dunbar Lumber text line. Include the ticket emoji to be entered to win. We'll announce the winner later on in the show. As mentioned, though, joining us now, he does Mariners pre- and post-game coverage on Seattle Sports Radio 710 in Seattle.

He is Mike Lefkoe. Mike, thanks for doing this. How are you? Good morning, guys. Unfortunately, I think kind of cloudy and gray, kind of like the weather out here, but appropriate for this morning. Yeah, so Mariners win yesterday they

avoid the sweep is it uh is the panic on hold what like what did that win do for the psyche of the fan base yesterday no no not much uh didn't do much to kind of stave off the panic i think friday night just kind of put it all on a full-blown onset of panic. And then Saturday, you know, when you lose a series, it's everything. It's kind of that complex the Astros bring, where they have owned the division for so long. And you know what that's like. You know, this team, this kind of dark force that's looming. The Mariners had the 10-game lead that evaporated like that.

I think if you guys would have had me on about a month and a half ago, we would have had a cheery conversation. Now it's just kind of all concerned that this mirage of a 10-game lead is not going to be able to hold up, and lo and behold, it hasn't. So yeah, to get within a virtual tie, it was almost a necessity to

kind of stave off everything, but when the lead evaporates so quickly now, it's just okay. You've got to find a way to keep the offense at some semblance of consistency and then hope the Astros aren't playing this good over the rest of the season on a scale of one to ten how surprised are you that this has happened yeah it's a good question so I'm not surprised necessarily that the lead has gone away but I thought it would take perhaps the entirety of the season

that you would be in a neck and neck race and then it comes down to okay the mariners have to show what they're made of in the final weeks of the season kind of like last year where the rangers had the lead for so long then they kind of slipped and they were able to get back in the playoffs it felt like the mariners had flaws the offense that's always been an issue this season. It magnified over the last month and a half. But if you were going to ask me, would the Mariners have slipped within a month, within two months, I would have said no, no way, probably two and a half months. So I guess an eight on a scale of one to ten that it's happened this quickly because it was June 18th.

It's June 18th. They were up 10 games in the division, and now it's July 22nd. How does this change the trade deadline plans? Because a month ago it was, this ownership group better do something. They better get off their wallets and bring in a bat for this team. But now all of a sudden you're like, I don't know if I blame them if they don't do something crazy at the trade deadline. No, so it's almost, and I think, I don't know the perspective of every single fan,

but I think I can speak for most of them, and certainly when we're covering every single day, it feels like it almost heightens the urgency, because this can't be another year that's wasted. Baseball is so fickle, and I don't want to tie this back to the Blue Jays in a negative way, but the Blue Jays have made a lot of moves, and they just have never been able to get over the hump there because the Orioles have ascended. You know, they're dealing with the Yankees and all that. So for the Mariners in a division where you've seen the last two World Series champions come from this division, you have a team that's shown it's capable of getting out to a division lead, and they have a pitching staff that is doing something that's rare.

You know, all their starters have been healthy for the most part. They have been dominant in pitching performances that kind of go under the radar because the offense has really been stagnant. So it feels like, okay, well, this is another season where you can't waste that momentum from 2022, especially for a fan base that is just starved for a playoff appearance. So it's almost more urgency to go out and get some kind of impact that. Now the issue is, and I know you guys have probably talked about this,

so maybe I'll turn it back to you a little bit. The Blue Jays, Vlad Guerrero Jr. would be a great person to bring in here, at least from the perspective of Mariners fans. But it sounds like the Blue Jays don't necessarily want to get rid of him. So I'm curious, are you guys, how would that go over if they were to kind of break that apart? The Blue Jays don't necessarily want to get rid of him. So I'm curious, are you guys, how would that go over if, you know, they were to kind of break that apart? Yeah, I think the latest from Blue Jays fans is that he's playing well enough.

There's an appetite to see him as a homegrown guy, kind of stick around, sign long term. Bo Bichette's a different story, but, you know, how attractive is he to anybody? And, you know, obviously not shortstop, not a need for the Mariners. So I don't think the Vladdy thing is happening, although I've heard the same as you from some of the Mariners fans I know up here, that he'd look great for the Mariners. So is there a big move coming?

I know I've talked to other people who say there's just not that one big bat on the market for them to go get. Can they do something big like that at the trade deadline, or is that maybe more of an off season thing for the mariners i i didn't get to reassess the definition of quote big move because an impact move might be something and the rays keep popping up as a common trade partner only because they have guys that could fit those those needs and because there has been significant movement between the rays and the mariners you know over the course of Jerry DePoto's tenure as GM, now president of baseball operations. So at this point, yeah, there's not the Vladdy move out there.

There's not a Luis Robert necessarily because while the Mariners do have a very enviable call of prospects, I mean, the White Sox are going to ask for everything. There are just, there's just no one selling right now. The Mets don't want to get rid of Pete Alonso. So in terms of bats that the Mariners could use, you almost have to go all the way down to Tampa and say, yeah, someone like Isak Perez, who would still cost a ton because he's under club control,

but you get rid of a chunk of prospects. The Rays have shown they're willing to continually almost kind of churn and work with prospects to kind of stay relevant in the division still. So it might be something like that. Or a couple of guys. I don't know if there's one impact bat out there, but you might have to piece it together with two or three bats and hope that they fill those significant chunks in the lineup

where you're just not getting enough production. Hey, Mike, if the Mariners miss the playoffs, what's the fallout? It's something where there's going to have to be a vast overhaul in some way or another. And it depends on who is making that ultimate decision because ownership could come in and say, well, now it's been a decade and we have one playoff appearance to show for it. And I do believe in what's being built, but maybe this exact crop of front office or manager or all of that is not the case. Or ownership still believes in what's being done and says, you know what, maybe it's not a massive change one way or another in terms of who's managing, who's in charge,

or the entirety of how the organizational system is built up and how they're maybe teaching hitting or the type of players they're bringing in. So it will be some kind of vast overhaul. Because the issue with pro sports teams, and it's a good and it's a bad, you can't just go fire players. You know, they're under contract. You're not getting rid of guys who are under club control for a while or guys who have signed big contracts. So it's just the nature of the beast. So you can only work with what you have. And yeah, it's easy to look at, well, if they don't make the playoffs this year, that's one playoff appearance in a decade of this current structure.

So perhaps some big overhaul does have to happen. How would you describe the Mariners fan base? That's also a very good question. I think it's a fan base that's been scarred. They have invested so much hope and desire and passion. I mean, it's very loyal. It's an extremely loyal mandate. Because, yeah, because for so long, there was no payoff.

And 2022 felt like, okay, this is it. Here is the reward for all of this suffering that since 2001 to 2022, there were no tangible moments to hold on to in the postseason. And so because of that, then in the immediacy of not continuing the upward trajectory, I think there's that fear and always the looking over the shoulder of, all right, what's going to go wrong now? So it's a fan base that's very attuned to whatever can go wrong will go wrong. And I'm not going to call it a negative fan base.

It's just a fan base that is probably scarred, realistic to the history of this team, and just worried that there's not going to be that big payoff after years and years of investment. Do they worry that the owner of the Mariners is rich but not rich enough? No, because I think at the level of baseball ownership, if you are an owner that's rich enough to buy a baseball team, you have enough resources to find ways to do what you want to do. I think they just, well, fans are going to be different than management perspective,

right? That if you're an owner, if you're a GM, if you're ahead of an entire operation, you got to look at the big picture. You have to look at the long-term of a season and fans want the immediacy, right? They want the, now they want the fixes. Let's have happen. I understand that perspective, but you guys know that any sports season is so long and baseball, especially that if you look at a very minute sample size, it might not be reactionary to what the fans want.

But if you look at the course of two months or three months, sometimes patience from the front office perspective is not something that kind of jives with the fan base where, you know, you look at Julio Rodriguez last year and then this year a little bit as well. So in the last, what, two plus weeks, Julio has kind of performed like the Julio Rodriguez that everyone's expected so you kind of you do you wait and you hope that all right the breakout's happening but day in and day out when you're not seeing him succeed there's that overwhelming sense of

frustration that something must be wrong whether it's Julio it's the coaching he's getting it's the voices that are you know close so there's almost this deferring perspective from the fan base of we want results now. And if your ownership, if you're a front office saying, well, look, we have done things that have proven in the past or that we believe statistically will pay out in the long run. And then it's just the physical nature of baseball that that all might be well and good. But you can come down to what the Mariners were in last year and they missed the playoffs by a game. So then there's no forgiving reward for a fan base. It has waited, waited, waited all season, and then seven months later, the season just ends.

Mike, how much concern is there about Julio Rodriguez? I mean, there's a lot of different reasons people might be concerned. I know health, he left the game, but it seems like a pretty positive prognosis on his health but just like concerned about the season he's having what it means for the Mariners ability to chase down a playoff spot this year but also long-term concern given I mean how important he is to the future of this franchise and how much his hitting and his power in particular has dropped off this year? Yeah, I think he's shown that he's a very streaky hitter. And he's a slow starter, which is not good for a team that has relied on him to be the bulk of the offense. In fact,

I think that was the big criticism last year. And it looks like it again this year after what's happened recently is that the lineup has not been there to protect Julio. So you threw it all on this second-year guy last season, and he really slumped. He struggled with the expectations coming off a rookie of the year season. He was in the home run derby after that year, and he had all the attention on him, and it was a slow start. Okay, so you build into this year, you think, well, he got that out of his system, now he's adjusted,

and you guys mentioned it. Yeah, the power just hasn't been there. A lot of that is he's trying a little too hard at the plate. There's so much going into kind of trying to microanalyze and figure out what was going on with Julio. Teams know how to attack him. That adjustment maybe hasn't been as quick as fans would have liked. But now you look and

since July 4th, he's hitting 460 and more importantly, the power numbers that we were mentioning, four home runs and three doubles and 37 at bats. So it just feels like Julio's going to be a guy, at least still early on in his career, is a slow starter. I don't know if there's a way to get around that. If you do bring in another big superstar, if you bring in guys that can really punish a pitcher behind him and around him in the lineup, if the attention isn't solely on Julio. But there is that ease and kind of worry that this is going to be a guy that can turn it on for a month or two months at a time,

but until it's proven that he can do it for a full season, you might just have a very erratic, burgeoning young superstar that's not going to be able to carry a team for every single month of the year. And right now, the Mariners and their lineup, they need that. It's unfair to Julio, but they need Julio essentially to carry them for weeks and even months at a time. Mike, thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it. It's going to be fascinating to see what the Mariners do down the stretch.

I'm sure we'll talk again. I was going to say, next time can we wait until they're doing well? You know, maybe we'll talk about a five-game lead. There'll be a lot more to talk about. We'll see. It'll either be previewing their playoff opponent or the post-mortem on the fallout. Or the house cleanups.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. So either way, there's going to be a lot to talk about. There'll be a lot to talk about. Thanks for doing this, Mike. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. That is Mike Lefkoe.

He does the pre- and post-game on Seattle Sports Radio, 7, 10 a.m. down in Seattle. A lot of that, his answer about Julio there at the end, you could copy and paste for Pedersen. Is this just an erratic superstar who we can't rely on to carry the team? The Mariners fans and Canucks fans have a lot in common, don't they? I feel a simpatico. copy and paste for Patterson. Is this just an erratic superstar who can't rely on to carry the team for long stretches? Mariners fans and Canucks fans have a lot

in common, don't they? I feel a simpatico. The Mariners are very, very similar fan bases. Well, the Canucks have at least been to the finals.

That's the thing. This is true. The Mariners are, and like people are going to think I'm, because I'm a Jays fan, I'm like gloating or rubbing it in on the

Mariners. It's really not about that. They are one of the least successful historically franchises in professional. Go watch the YouTube box. They had like six or seven successful historically franchises in professional. Go watch the YouTube.

They had like six or seven years of being good and relevant. Well, they have the longest final streak of all major pro sports. Not making the finals. Not making the finals, yeah. If I remember correctly. They are the team of all major pro sports, the longest without a final. If we're going to wait until the Mariners have a five-game lead to get Mike Lefkoe back, I don't know if we're going to be getting Mike Lefkoe back.

Hey, guys, here's a question for you. I'm throwing this out there. We've talked a lot about Seattle today. We've talked a lot about Toronto. Which of the major league teams in either of those cities are you most bullish about? Well, I mean the Mariners are better than the Jays.

I'm talking about all the teams. All the teams. All the teams. Because I'm not bullish on the Leafs Because I'm not bullish on the Leafs. I'm not bullish on the Leafs. No. With an improved decor and a goal-tending? I think they can miss the playoffs next season.

I think it might be the Seahawks. Wow, all right. You're not a Mike McDonald guy? I mean, I'm excited about the new coaching staff. I'm excited about the new era. As much as I liked Pete Carroll and I thought some of the criticism he got was ridiculous,

I think it was time to move on and I think they had to move on. They kind of lived in the past a little too much and they needed to do, but I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be tough this year. I don't think their team is particularly good and I think it's still the 49ers division

and even if the Seahawks make the playoffs, I don't think they'll last long. You think the Leafs miss the playoffs? I think it's possible. Really? I do. That's my kind of Halford-ish hot take. I just don't think that...

That's what you do for prep? I'm not saying you're the actual horn. I'm not saying you're wrong. I would love that. That would be awesome. Like Tanev and OEL. OEL's a third pair guy. There's not much difference in signing OEL than there is to, I don't know,

Derek Forbore. Derek Forbore. There really isn't. No, I know. Like he played admirably at times for Florida, but at the end of the day, he was still a third pair guy. You know, he started to get a few more minutes because their power play was so bad,

so they had him out there at one point running the power play, and I was like, well, this isn't working either. Tanev's not a young man anymore. Tannum's not a young man anymore. Tannum's not a young guy anymore. They're dropping off. They're not going to miss the playoffs. I'm sorry, Bruff. They're not.

I don't think. I think it's possible, man. I think there's something. As much as I would love it. The whole Marner thing is going to hang over them. Yeah, I was just thinking that. It's going to hang over them while he scores 110 points. There's still going to

be a good team. The locker room chemistry is a wild card. I think Toronto could be more like what we saw from Tampa this last year, where it's like, they make the

playoffs, but at no point during the season did anyone look at them as a Stanley Cup contender, and then they lose in the first round. That's kind of where I

feel Toronto is at right now. Okay, hold on. If it's not the Seahawks, then who is it? Tyler just texted. Jays suck. Well, Tyler just texted. Raptors suckler just don't know the sounders the sound has their peak tyler's just texted it what the what the sounders are the sounders good sounders sure i don't even know i actually don't think they are oh actually no maybe they aren't this year i think it's i think it's the two la teams check the standings i think it's two la teams uh and

rail salt landers are seventh. Oh, yeah, never mind. Two places behind the Whitecaps. Because usually they're really good. Take that. You can always bank on them. Not this year. The Mariners are mid. The Kraken suck.

It's got to be the Seahawks. Or the Leafs. Kraken, new coach. Maybe they get a bump. I would probably pick the Leafs if I had to pick one. But are we talking like most likely to make the playoffs?

Then it's the Leafs. But if we're talking about excited about the future, reasons about like excited about the future, reasons to be excited about the future, I think it's the Seahawks. I'm excited to watch how the Seahawks evolve.

Let's put it that way. But I still think they need a quarterback if they're going to get to the Super Bowl. Yeah. Like I just, you know,

as much as I like what's happened the last few years in terms of it's been better than I thought it would, I still think they need a quarterback. Argos are three and three.

Okay. They're better than the Ticats. They go right up there. They're better than the Ticats. Three and three for the Argos. Oh, my goodness. They're pitching fire. Tablesaw James says, could it be the Supersonics?

And I'm kind of like, yes. Yeah. Hell yeah. How worried do you think the Kraken are about the Sonics coming back and the Kraken just being completely forgotten in that city? You know what's going to be fascinating, though, is when was the last NBA expansion process? Was it the Hornets, the new, like when they became the Bobcats? Like, it's hard.

In a league that is that star-driven, you can't do what Vegas did. Do you think they'll change any of the rules? I don't know. I don't even know what the rules are going to be. You know what I mean? I have no idea. Like I think it's going to be fascinating to see how expansion teams do. It will be interesting if they take that from the NHL and say,

hey, let's give these guys a chance. Let's try to make these guys good because it's such a star-driven league. And, I mean, I was a Grizzlies season ticket holder. Me and my dad. It's tough to watch a team that has no stars get trounced night after night by more talented teams. That's really tough, even in a basketball crazy market like Seattle. So were you a Sonics fan, too? No, not at all.

No, never. I had talked about this in the show on Friday. I've never been able to just like pick a team and get into it and be like, that's my team. Now I'm going to cheer for the Sonics fan no never oh I I had talked about this in the show on Friday I've never been able to just like pick a team and get into it it's like and be like that's my team now I'm gonna cheer for the Sonics even if they were the closest team to you and you get the most media coverage of them no like even the Seahawks I'm like yeah I don't have a problem with them winning it's nice who are your teams then and how did you come across Canucks okay so in Vancouver and right but that's it okay and the Jays,

cause my dad and my mom, my dad was a huge Jays fan. He got my mom hooked on it and then they got me hooked on it. And I was six and seven when they won the world series. And those are your two teams. And there isn't really any other team that you feel super strongly that I've ever been like live and die. Oh,

I'm so worked up about the games. Those are, those have been it. The Grizzlies. I love the Grizzlies when they were here, but they never played a meaningful game. I was always a bigger Sonics fan still.

Oh, really? I loved going to the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies were awful. Yes, but they were Vancouver's team. I used to go to those games to see the other teams. I still remember seeing

Michael Jordan play and that was probably my biggest thrill when the Grizzlies were here. Being able to see MJ. Yeah, Shaq, Kobe, AI, Kevin Garnett saw great players come through, but I was a Grizzlies fan. It sucked

when they left. But yeah, I've never been able to just be like, okay, I'm a big Miami Dolphins fan now. It's like, why? It's like, I don't know. I just chose them. It's never worked for me. I can't simulate the emotion. But that never happens. People do that all the time. They just pick a team.

Most of the time, they'll be flipping by on TV and they'll be like, I'm watching this team. They're kind of exciting. Like that's how I, at one point when I was a kid, I liked the Cleveland Browns cause I flipped by their game and I was like, look at these fans. These are,

these are great fans. Hilarious. And the Browns were decent. They had burnt. Now they always choked to the playoffs, but like they were a decent team. The fans were into it. I think I'm a Browns fan.

You should talk to Josh Elliott-Wolfe about this because he is a hardcore Vikings fan and he just sat down and chose them. Do you have a spreadsheet? He has a process where he's like, I don't want them to have won a championship yet because I want to get in on the ground floor, but they've got to

have a little bit of history. That's how he landed on the Vikings. He raw-dogged sporting events. I think that's the opposite. I know some people did that with a premier league. Yes. Because as a premier league team, premier league has gotten more popular in North America. People are like, Oh,

I want a team. So they wanted to choose one and they went through it like that. But I don't know. Anyway, I know it doesn't work. Anyways, Rick Dollywall is coming up next we'll talk about the Daniel Sprong signing and what else

perhaps this management group has planned for the offseason if anything else you're listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650