Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Retool With A Hybrid Form Is Back On

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

In hour one, guest hosts Josh Elliott-Wolfe & Israel Fehr look back at the previous day in sports, they talk last night's Canucks road loss to the Flyers (3:00), plus they chat the latest Seahawks news with ESPN's Brady Henderson (24:29). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. As the game concludes, the road trip is finished, as is the pre-Christmas portion of the schedule. The Canucks drop it tonight against the Philadelphia Flyers, and the their former head coach, Rick Tarkin, by a final score of five to two. Oh, I'm confused. Is this a happy ending or a sad ending? It's an ending. That's enough. And we felt that the package that Minnesota came up with the younger players and gives us a chance to take a step back here and retool it a little bit with a hybrid form.

What an odd thing to say. Good morning. Welcome to Halford and Brough. No, Halford. no problem. It's a hybrid form of the show today. Josh Elliott-Wolf Israel Fair, filling in. Izzy,

how are you? Good morning. Good morning, Josh. Hey, dog, good morning. Good morning. Here as always. And Zach, filling in. Good morning. Good morning. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Halford and Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer

proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks. Visit sands-trustee.com. This hour of Halford & Brough is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling, Vancouver's Premier. Metal Recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle. You get paid, 1170 Powell Street.

And Howford & Brough is also brought to you by the Duik Auto Group. Found out why nobody beats a Duick deal since 1926. Visit Doick GM on Marine Drive, downtown in Richmond, and at Doick Auto Group. dot com you can text in 650650 is the Dunbar Lumber text line Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors for over

50 years visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dumbar lumber dot com we are continuing the Ask Us Anything's Fort's Day if you've got Christmas themed one Canucks ones hockey ones general sports

not sports whatever you can ask anything because that's in the name. Ask us anything. You can send those in, 650, 650, 650 because it's our final show of the week. Also get your what we learns in. We'll hit those later on as well. Coming up on the show today, we will talk to Brady Henderson out of Seattle about those Seattle Seahawks who are now in a very tight race for the NFC West, a three-team race that could come down to the final week following a Niners win last night and the Seahawks and Niners play against each other in week 18. So that's at 6.30.

At 7.30, Sean Gentilly covers the NHL for the athletic. We'll talk about the Vancouver Canucks, but also more around the league as well. And at 810, 810, Lion and Ferraro will join us a regular here on Sportsnet 650. Former NHLer will get more into the Vancouver Canucks. That's what's happening on the show. today. Zachary, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game

last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I were... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed that? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making

safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit BCCSA. C.A. And the Canucks head into Christmas break. They finish the road trip with a loss. The winning tree comes to an end. The flyers beat the Canucks. Rick Tockett and those dastardly flyers, they beat the Canucks five to two. And it very much, to me at least, felt like the last game of a road trip right before Christmas break where you're like, we've won four already. We're good. If we go back four and one, it's fine. So it had that feel outside of maybe Thatcher Demko, who I thought played really well despite giving up four goals. Yeah, it was one of those games where we've gotten used to the Canucks getting outshot. But this was just another level of that where it was clearly didn't have the legs, if not for Demko making a few decent saves early on.

It probably would have been, they would have been down earlier, you know, the fact that the score was pretty close through, you know, period and a half, two periods. that that got broken open as you saw a couple of big miscues defensively open up the flyers and yeah I mean we don't have to worry about that 15 game winning streak anymore no no the people the the team tank people can rest it's not going to go I mean they might come back home and win like four more in a row and then we got to have the conversation again but that's a future problem right now they are on a one game losing streak and they continue to find themselves near the bottom of the standings but it was It was a fun for games.

It was a fun road trip, I'll say. Yesterday, in terms of just what happened in the game again, Thatcher Demko, I think, especially for the first half of the game played really well, and then maybe you can make the case after that. He had some moments, but I don't really put any of the goals on him. The 2-0 goal, the Grunstrom goal,

Z. Bouillon kind of had a weird moment in front where it went between his legs and then he didn't really box out his guy too. so a rookie moment for him and then a much bigger rookie moment for Tom Belander when Owen Tippett was like hey you're going the wrong way and then Owen Tippett scores and that kind of put the game away for the Flyers

positives though I think so Maxisone scores and I've kind of liked his game honestly since he signed the contract extension it feels like he's kind of found another level not a crazy high level but it feels like his game has progressed a little bit

especially if you compare it to where he was when they called him up earlier in the year. Yeah, I mean, he looks like a consistent fourth liner now and that someone would fit on any team, not just the team struggling up front, not just the team that part of the reason that he came up was a lack of centers. So that was an opportunity that he got.

Maybe that's not where he sticks long term, but the game, the speed, the way that he's approaching, it seems like a guy who has wrapped his head around the role that he could play in an NHL level. And how many times have we heard coaches and GMs talk about the importance of those players understanding that, right? It's like, hey, this is the role that you need to play at this level to be effective. It's easier said than done. You'd feel like, hey, go play with speed, get in on the forecheck, make quick smart plays, get on and off the ice, you know, make room for the players on, like, do your job so that the,

the players higher up in the lineup have a better chance to do theirs. And it's kind of stunning, honestly, that it's harder than it looks. But he's a guy that has over the course of the time we've seen him play for the Vancouver Canucks shown that progression. He looks really steady right now. Yeah. And again, I don't know if the end result for him is going to be at center in the NHL. But just if he can carve out a role doing something for the Canucks,

I feel like he's making strides towards. doing that. Maybe he ends up on the wing long term for the team, or at least over the next couple years, while he has this contract, but in general, from the game yesterday, I just don't know if there's many huge takeaways.

They won four games in a row, so you can't be mad at them for losing yesterday. I do think from the road trip as a whole, I know people were texting in about Jake DeBrusk yesterday, and I kind of said he's been fine, but I do want to see more from the three veteran wing

outside of, I guess, Evander King and Kiefer Sherwood, like Brock Besser, Connor Garland, Jake DeBrusk, those three I do want to see a little bit more from post Christmas break. Yeah, Besser's been quiet. There's no doubt. There was a moment yesterday where he had like a puck in between his feet

right in front of the net and he just kind of fell over. Yeah, he's had a few also like slot chances in the last little bit where pucks are coming out to him right in the slot and it's not like he's the elite sharpshooter that we thought he might be going back to his rookie year, but we know he can still shoot the puck and be a guy that can put those chances in

and he's putting in the goalie's crest and all of those things that you don't want to see. And that has to be his game, right? Like that's what he has to do. And we know what DeBras game looks like. And when he gets going, it's often starts off on the power play, bleeds over to five on five. That's, yeah, just not been the case.

that's not what's driving the Canucks right now. Kiefer Sherwood, though, another physical game. 11 hits. He's out there, man. It's impressive. So, yeah, that was the game yesterday. Canucks lose 5'2, and now they're off for a few days before they return home for a game on Saturday. But Patrick Alvin did speak on the broadcast yesterday on Amazon because it was Monday.

And hockey on Monday, it's on prime. So Patrick Alvin, he spoke to Adnan & Verkan Company on the Amazon broadcast, and he was asked about the Quinn Hughes trade and how he feels about the young guys coming in, and he had a very fun name for whatever it is the conducts are doing. Here is his answer yesterday. Well, I think we looked to what we needed in return in terms of what direction we're going here. A couple of teams were involved and we worked closely with

the equipment as his agent. We had a smooth ending here. And we felt that the package that Minnesota came up with the younger players and it gives us a chance to take a step back here and retool it a little bit with a hybrid form and they're getting

two young 20, 20 is 20 and older in 21 and then we needed the center here. Ross is a highly talented player that's been very consistent in the league and only 24. And then the first round pick. The first round pick was important for us as well. I, uh, so. The mental gymnastics the Canucks go through to not call it a full rebuild is honestly very funny. Who has ever said retool it with a little bit of a hybrid form? I mean, it's great. I love it. We're making up terms. I hope they keep doing this and keep expanding on these like

buzzwords and just making them more complex as the season goes on. I really enjoy it. I also love how in the clip, as soon as he says, retool it a little bit with a hybrid form. They then start playing music in the background. It sounds like he's at a rave. Yeah, I was like, boom, let's go. We got to distract us. That's the hybrid

form. It's a retool with a twist of hybrid. I don't... If you serve that drink at the game, by the way, that'd be good. Yeah, the retool twist. Yeah, retool with a twist of hybrid. Sounds good. I do It's just crazy.

Like, what are we doing? Why are we making up terms? We don't need to do this. It's okay. You could do what the other 31 teams do and just call it a rebuild. It's okay. But, like, other teams don't do that, or they do this too where they're like, well, not every team, but there are a decent amount of teams around the league that are afraid to say the

word rebuild. For sure. Even when they're, when they're clearly rebuilding, it's like, well, I don't, I don't know what we're doing. It's a retool. Even if he said retool and just left it at that, I would be annoyed, but I'd be like, okay, it's fine. I've heard that before. I get it. You can label

it whatever you want, but it just feels like every time this management group talks, aside from Rutherford, who feels like it's okay for him to say it. But whenever Alvin talks, it feels like he's doing... He's not going to say it. He's doing whatever he can to avoid the word.

Yeah. I feel like this goes back to the Sixers and the Sabers and the tank and like those teams embracing the word tank. I'd have to go and look back. The Sixers certainly embraced that, like Sam Hinky, the gym at the time. He was like all about the tank, the process.

Trust the process. Trust the process. And then the Sabres were very much tanking the McDavid year and up picking second and getting Jack Eichol. But that's really spooked teams from even though their teams are basically now never going to say we're tanking. And then we always have the conversation of like the players are trying. and the coaches are trying and they're pro athletes

and they're never going to go out there and lose so it's just kind of a spin on that and it feels like over the last 10, 15 years since those teams got so much attention for the way that they approach things. The teams are now even afraid of using

the word rebuild. Although there was I was just reading a New York Rangers piece this morning and it referenced the thing that the Rangers did a few years ago, the letter that was sent out right about how they were going to get the franchise back on track. So those are things that obviously still get referenced.

You know, so I mean, when Jim Rutherford, after the Hughes trade, had his name on a statement that used the word rebuild, we did react accordingly. But I think at this point for us, it's not so much, look, they are rebuilding. It's, oh my God, they actually said it because it's a meme at this point. Yeah. That they won't say the word. And it's so stupid It's so much semantics of just

Okay well what's the difference between a retool and a rebuild And I suppose that hockey people would argue that in their minds A rebuild means that you are moving off players for draft picks And the Canucks clearly have not been prioritizing that In that clip And this is maybe unfair But in that clip Patrick Alvin had to be reminded that they also got a first And he was like yeah that was important to you

Yeah, cool. First round pick. That's sick. I forgot we got that. It is, so in the end to me, like even when Rutherford came out, he had the statement after the Hughes trade, and it did mention rebuild. It was still like, okay, you can say the word, but it's just the only thing that's going to matter are your actions. And because we've heard both sides of it from the Canucks, like, hey, if you're worried that this is just going to be a retool and they're going to try to rush things, I would say, hey, have some patience. let's see what their actions actually lead to because they can be saying, hey, this is a retool while still making moves that you think are rebuilding moves. Like to me, to me in the end, it's just going to be the action speaking louder than the words. And nothing that they've said since the Hughes trade has convinced me one way or another

that they're fully committed to this being a rebuild or fully committed to getting this done as quickly as possible. Now the thing I will say, I think if they had a lot of discipline and were very aggressive about trying to get ahead of things and trying to be like, hey, you know what? This year and potentially next year are not going to go well. Just based on the roster you have now and the ability to like, hey, it's going to be really hard to make trades this off season two. There are still not a lot of good free agents unless you're in the running for Alex Tuck. So I expect next year to be very, similar to this year and if you're looking at it that way and your your ideal competitive window opens up a couple years from now i think there's a there's a world where you go really hard on trying to get as many draft picks as possible this year as many prospects as possible this year even if it means trading someone like a connor garland or a brock best or jake de brusk or one of the the forwards with term and then maybe thatcher demko as well like that if we're talking about

accelerating a rebuild while still doing it properly, to me, that's the road. But you have to be super aggressive and super committed. And that's kind of where I'm like, hey, we would need to see that before I fully expect things to actually be able to be done in two to three years. Well, the change now within a week and a half was coming off the Hughes Trays, it felt like at least for this season, we might see that. And now I'm skeptical that we will even see that with the Canucks this season. The asset collection, not asking them to blow up the roster and get rid of everybody, but maybe one trade of a veteran player who's not a pending UFA. And that tone and tenor has changed.

And I don't think it's entirely because they won four in a row. They went out on the road. I think it might be partly because they won four in a row. It might, but it just feels like in the moment of just kind of like how the fan base flipped, not everybody, but a decent sample of the fan base. That night, Hughes gets traded. People are emotional that one of the best players in franchise history has been moved. And within the start of the next week, there was a lot of, you know, quit Hughes and this guy left us high and dry and so on.

So things move quickly here. I did think, though, that the Canucks were positioning themselves, at least for this year to ride this out. And they're never going to say, I think. think Canadian teams in general and the Canucks are certainly at the top of this list. Reticent to say going into a season, we're not going to be any good because hockey fans don't want to go see a team that's not any good. They're not going to pay the money to go to Rogers Arena and watch a team that's not going to be competitive. So that has always been a challenge. It's certainly a challenge in this market. And now, yeah, I question if we're going to see anything beyond

Sherwood, Cain, and the obvious candidates get moved off the roster. Like maybe a forward and a bluger too. I do. Well, this fan base is smart enough to know obviously going into a season if the team's going to be good or not anyway. So it's not necessarily something they have to say. Like what they've been kind of saying with their like, you know, we're the retool on the flyer, all the hybrid things they've been, you know, all these little buzzwords. Retool with the hybrid form.

Yeah, all the buzzwords. Like they're still like saying without saying like, look, like we're, this is a team that needs to be reformatted, fixed and changed. and altered in some way, and it might be at the expense of wins. And the fans, you know, this is a reasonably intelligent fan base, we know this. Like, people know this, and they know going into a season, probably going into next year, barring any major moves in the off season, that this is a team that will struggle a bit for a couple of years, probably until they can accrue these prospects and these kinds of players. I also think people, as far as, like, hey, getting butts in seats and doing all that,

if you go into a season being, like, you don't even have to say that, hey, it's going to be a bad season or lay out expectations of what the season will be. But if you go into a season with a few prospects like they have right now, like Zeev Bouillon, Liam Ogren, Marco Rossi, not really a prospect, but like a few young guys in the roster that fans can be excited about, plus you add, like if you get a top three pick this year and you add, let's say it's a Gavin McKenna, I do think you're getting butts in seats, even if you're not going to be a good team,

just because fans here, to Andy's point, are intelligent enough to know that like, hey this is part of the process and they're also going to be excited about exciting young players on the ice at Rogers Arena, even if it doesn't lead to a crazy amount of wins. Like if we're talking about like a Macklin

Celebrini type player at Rogers Arena, even if you're not winning games it's still be like, wow, I want to go watch that player because it's more fun than what I've seen in the previous two seasons. Well, if I can be critical, like one thing I think the organization doesn't do well enough is understand that the fans

as to what you just said, want to see these prospects as the, like, fans are excited about the prospect of a rebuild because most people have never seen one, like a true one. And although the Canucks may never do that fully and embrace that fully, if they could bring in these young, exciting players like they did it with the Hughes trade, that will bring in fans because people want to see these guys. They want to see these young players and get a glimpse of positivity at the future of the franchise, right? So if they can continue to do that, like, I don't think they have to be skis.

of losing like yeah you might lose the casual fan but that's what they're worried about but most of the fans in the in vancouver aren't casual i don't know i think there's a lot of casual no man like if you're going if you're going to if you're going to a conucks game those are people that go to the games if you're going to a conucks game like 60 to 70% of those people are season ticket holders and they're like fans of the team like they want to they are invested in the franchise they're not just there on a business trip or for a night out like most of the people at canucks games love the team and they want to and want to see these young players but they know that they're going to get those people because

those people are always there. So they are worried about the 30, 40% of the people who want to go when it's the fun thing to do. Well, you just have to weigh that against how much you want to stand the cup. Yeah. The history of the Vancouver Canucks shows what they went their way

more than the other. But I will say like the frustrating part to me about this whole conversation is like, man, if you were just, if you're just committed for two years, you would have this huge window of like you're going to make the playoffs and You're going to be so much more exciting for such a longer period of time. And the good faith you would buy, too, it would be incredible.

Think about all the extra playoff revenue. I know, consistently going on deep runs. We've had this, I mean, I know you guys, obviously, your guest hosting. We've had this conversation, like, Bruff and Huff and Bruff have spun their wheels around this over and over again because it's just like, it goes in circles. It is. Yeah. You know, like the argument against, you know, short term versus long term.

Like, it just never ends. And it's just. No, and it gets worse and worse. It's one of those things with the franchise. It's an impossible. possible situation. And we're going to keep talking about it for as long as it keeps happening. We're going to still retool a little bit of a hybrid form.

This is a hybrid take on the fly. Halford of Brough is brought to by Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats a duik deal since 1926. Visit Duick GM on Marine Drive, downtown in Richmond, and at Duick Auto Group.com. It is Halford & Brough, Josh Elliott Wolf, Israel Fair. Filling in on the other side. we'll talk to Brady Henderson about everything going on with the Seattle Seahawks. That's coming up next on SportsNet 650.

Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on SportsNet 650 or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back. To Halperton and Brough, Neil Halfer, no brough. It's Josh Elliott-Wolf and Israel Fair. Filling in, Halpern & Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Get out of the penalty box of debt and back in the game with a financial fresh start.

Visit sands-dustee.com. I'm going to get this one. This hour of Halpernabruff is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling. They recycle. You get paid. 1170 Powell Street. I did it. Someone texted in when I was doing the one in break there

and they were like that. That one was a struggle for Josh and you're not wrong. The first hour ones are just, I'm waking up. I'm trying to get it. I got a lot to read. Okay, it's Alford and Brough, Josh Ali Wolf, Israel Fair. Filling in, we go to the phone lines down. We bring in Brady Henderson covers the Seahawks for ESPN. Appreciate you taking the time, Brady. How are you? You bet, guys. Thanks for having me. How's going? going pretty well. Yesterday we were talking a bit about Sam Darnold and our concerns

or if we are concerned about him going into the playoffs and kind of his progress this season. How have Seahawks fans felt about Sam Darnold over the last few weeks and where's the confidence level in him heading into the postseason right now?

Yeah, I mean as best as I can gauge it, I think people feel pretty good about Darnold. I mean, there still is the obvious problem of the turnovers. He's thrown 13 interceptions and I believe it is 18 turnovers. If I'm not mistaken, don't quote me on that. But, you know, going into that game last week, he was tied for the late lead with Tua Tua Tua, I want to say it was 16 turnovers. He obviously is playing well enough and they are playing well enough around him

to overcome those mistakes. But, you know, there is kind of still that problem. There also is kind of a tendency, at least over the last month or so, to start games. slow. Now, they got the early touchdown in that game, so it wasn't quite the same problem as it was, you know, in recent games. But those are a couple things that look like, you know, they can catch up to the Seahawks when they start facing really good teams in the playoffs. I mean, you know, they got away with it against the likes of Max Rosner and Kirk Cousins and 44-year-old Philip Rivers coming off the couch. But it's harder to do that in the playoffs. and, you know, they barely escaped against Matt Stafford in the Rams last week.

So, you know, I think people still feel great about moving on from Gino Smith as many detractors as there were over that movement. Gino Smith was very polarizing in Seattle. People seem to either love him or hate him. And, you know, I think the faction that loves Gino and didn't like that quarterback swap, I think is coming around to Darnold. But there is still kind of that question of, okay, man, like, you can't really have a clunker in the first half. against a good team in the playoffs because that's going to come back to bite. It seems to me that at the high end from what we've seen from Darnold, it's been incredible. Some huge passes in some of those tight spots in games where he's been criticized before for throwing

the game away, but then he's had, as you mentioned, a lot of turnovers and turnovers in difficult positions, and it feels like the Seahawks are playing a little bit of a game where they obviously need to have the ball in his hands because they're an explosive offense. They have the ability to stretch teams and put. put up a lot of points, but there are those ups and downs when he has the ball in his hands a lot, and I don't think the answer is what we saw in the first half against the Rams where he's barely throwing the ball at all. So what is the right balance for the way that the Seahawks need to approach their offense?

Well, it'd be a lot easier if they could run the ball like they did for much of that game Thursday night. You know, they have been one of the least efficient running teams in the NFL. I mean, if you just look at their, you know, yards per game, they're okay. I think they're somewhat the middle of the pack, but that's more by volume than anything else. It's not because they're efficient. It's because they run the ball way more than anybody else in the NFL. So they just rack up yards that way. And, you know, I think that there is some effectiveness to the run game

in the sense that clearly defenses, they may do it enough, and they are, even though they're fairly inefficient, they are effective enough to really make defenses respect it. And you see how often teams bring another safety down into the box, which is part of the reason why they struggle to run the ball. efficiently. And, you know, in theory, that opens things up in the deep passing game, and that has been the strength of this team is how explosive it is with JSN, and especially now that they've

got Rashid in the mix as well. Cooper Cup, when he is doing his thing, you know, he is a really good complimentary option as well. So, and, you know, maybe that game, I don't know if you can say that, you know, maybe they found something or not, but that was one of their better rushing performances, even if you take away that 55-yard Ken Walker touchdown run begin the second half. still not a bad day for Seattle's run game. And, I mean, you could tell last week the way Mike McDonnell was talking about it,

but you could tell he was frustrated. He said, it's a little bit of everything in terms of what's going on with the run game right now. And he admitted that it's a little late in the season to be talking about that. And that's especially true when you're thinking of a, you know, a defensive-minded head coach, like any defensive-minded head coach on the planet, they're going to want to run the ball. And, you know, by and large, the Seucks have not done that really well this season. You mentioned Rashid Shaheed, and we saw him get the special team's touchdown last week,

but what has he done for the offense since being traded for? Yeah, he has really emerged as kind of that secondary option to Jackson, Smith, and Jiglin. Not that Cooper Cup wasn't that, but it just gives them another guy to go to. And look, I think when you start getting later in the season, you start facing better defenses, you know, there is going to be one or two every now and again that's going to find a way to take the way Jackson spent the jig, but even if it's not for a full game, the way that Minnesota did, you know, in key spots, they'll find a way to do that, and it just becomes that much more important to have another guy that defenses have to respect. And you're seeing

Chehita has emerged in that. I mean, he has been, he was that guy in New Orleans, took him a little bit of time to, I guess, reacclimate to this offense that he played in last year with Clint Kubiak and New Orleans. But he is really, he's really got going. And, you know, not just in the passing game, you know, that you see them give the ball to him out of the backfield. He had that 31-yard run in the second half Thursday night, and obviously he is a threat to score any time he touches the ball on special teams to return touchdowns in the span of three weeks in addition to emerging as a pretty effective weapon on offense. And we really, I don't think, have really seen the full effect of Rashid Shaheed, because

as well as he's done, you know, offensively, you know, what is it, nine catches over the two before that last game, you yet to really see them just line up and let him run a go ball and throw it due to him like that. And we've seen, you know, you saw in New Orleans how effective he can be at that. I mean, you're talking about legitimately one of the NFL's permute deep threats. Seems like the Seahawks have more so he's made, he's done more of his damage on kind of those shorter, you know, intermediate routes in addition to getting the ball out of the backfield.

And so I still think there's more, there's more room for him to make an impact on this offense with the speed that he has. We've seen what he can do on special teams with some touchdowns. That's been a strength for the Seahawks all season even before the Shaheed acquisition. It's a part of the game that when teams struggle on special teams,

it's a challenge to overcome. When teams have a great special teams like the Seahawks clearly do this season, it's a huge bonus. What particularly about their approach the special teams has stood out to you this season? Well, I think you use the right word. It's approach.

And believe it or not, not every NFL team really takes special teams seriously. And, you know, you hear some coaches talk about how, yeah, it's a third of the game, and it's just as important as offensive defense, and some coaches don't talk like that. And, like, I don't think Kyle Shanahan talks like that. I think some offensive coaches like Kyle Shanahan, you know, the whole thing is, the whole kind of organization is standing around the offense. And I think some coaches say, hey, man, I don't need my special teams to be great.

I just need them to not lose the game for me. and, you know, to basically complement the offense. You know, I don't know how, you know, maybe the Rams kind of view it the same way as with another offensive mind-made coach, but, you know, you just saw the difference, right, in special teams. I mean, one team a week after making six field goals,

scores on a punt-return touchdown, and it was something that they saw on film that they could exploit. And, you know, the other team fires at Special Teams coordinator a couple days after that game. So, you know, when you get into the playoffs, and you start, you know, facing teams that are more evenly matched with you, like the Rams, like some of these other teams, and see that's a few weeks from now.

I mean, that could easily be a differentiator, and it was one of the differentiators in that game Thursday night. It is Alfred and Brough, Josh Ali Wolf, Israel Fair, filling in, joined by Brady Henderson from ESPN. So we've been talking a bit about the playoff picture on both sides, AFC and NFC, and it just kind of feels like nobody is really fully separated themselves, from the pack yet. Is that a good opportunity for the Seahawks for things to be as wide open as they are right now? Well, yeah, I don't know.

I mean, it's tough for them. I think they would prefer that it wouldn't be as wide open as it was in their own division. I mean, they put themselves in the driver's seat for the NFC title and the number one in the world seat. But, I mean, that is by no means a given. I mean, I think they've got to win these. final two games because I don't see

you know the 49ers I believe they have Chicago next week so that is a tough game but I mean any three of these teams could end up winning the West and could end up with that number one seat I do think the number one seat is going to come out of the NFC West but

I mean that is look I mean the Seahawks they can guarantee themselves of it by winning their final two games that's the simplest way to explain it but I mean that week 18 game against the 49ers you just know it's going to come down of that. I mean, and you've got to tip your cap to what Palisanahan and Robert Saul

that have done there. I mean, losing all the firepower that they have defensively with Nick Bosa going going on their first round pick, Michael Williams, Fred Warner, probably the best inside linebacker in football, and clearly it's hard for them to get after the passer. I mean, they got after Philip Rivers a little bit last night,

but again, he's 44 years old and has next to no mobility. The pass rush has been a challenge for them, and yet here they are with 11 wins right there. And you just know that it's going to come down to that final game or the regular season. And then, meanwhile, you know, you can't count with the Rams. They're there with 11 wins as well.

So I do think the number one seed is going to come out of the NFC West. And I can tell you the Seahawks are the slight favorites, but that is by no means a lot. Last year for Mike McDonald's first year with the Seahawks, a good season, but obviously not a playoff season. Now they're in. The Seahawks are starting to get a lot more attention. he's getting a little bit more attention. What's the evolution for McDonald in year two with the Seahawks and the progress that he's been able to make

with what he wanted to implement when he came in? Yeah, I think the thing that is the same as last year is that McDonald is showing that he is an excellent in-game coach. And what I mean is how many times over almost two seasons now have you seen McDonald make some sort of game management blunder I mean, the only one I can think of was last season against the 49ers where they tried to call back-to-back timeouts. Of course, you can't do that. They got away with it, so it didn't end up hurting them.

But, I mean, that's really the one decision out of, like, thousands in almost two seasons that McDonald just didn't make the right call. And keep in mind, he's doing this while, you know, calling a defense, too. And, you know, I don't mean to, like, take a shot at Pete Carroll. He's the best coach in Seahawks history. But how many times over 14 seasons did you see him? kind of screw up some in-game decision-making. And by the way, he's the kind of coach that should be able to have that nailed down

considering his attention isn't divided because he wasn't calling the defense at that time. So, you know, McDonald has been very good at that, and I think in terms of where he's grown, I think he's grown as a leader. And, you know, when teams hire these, especially these young coaches, I mean, look, everybody knows kind of what you're getting

in terms of the scheme. It's on paper. It's on tape. It is what it is. is, but, you know, teams hire these young coaches, just kind of hoping that they can figure out the leadership part of it. And I think Mike McDonald has really done that. And I think he would even tell you that he has grown from year one to year two as a leader. And it's been really interesting to see kind of the culture that he and John Schneider have really tried to build here, take hold. And, you know, players will tell you that how tight they are, you know,

not just the offense and the defense, they're not just certain position groups, but like literally every guy in that locker room seems to interact with one another. And I think they'll tell you that, yeah, that is a factor in winning games because you're more likely to do the unselfish things that may not benefit you in the stat sheet, but can help your teammate and help you win games. And I think they'll tell you that a big part of the reason why they're 12 and 4 or 12 and 3 in this position for the number 1 seat is that this is a very, very tight locker room. The benefits of the overall number 1 seat are obvious, a buy.

home games through the, you know, the conference part of the playoffs. For the Seahawks, historically, the home games have been incredibly valuable. Last season, I guess a little bit less this season, but last season there was quite a bit of talk about the team not being quite as good as home. At home, there was a lot of conversation about visiting fans sort of taking over at Lumen. What's that narrative been like this season? Are the Seahawks turning things around? I'd obviously imagine if they get the one seed and they've got a bunch of home playoffs, games that it will be filled with

Seattle fans, but where's the fan base at on that conversation these days? Yeah, I mean, that was a big talking point, not just kind of externally among, you know, writers and talking heads and whatnot. Like, that was a big deal for them organizationally

and they really kind of tried to attack it this off season and really tried to get to the root of it. Now, you know, part of the reason, like it's sort of a chicken and egg type thing or cause and effect conversation. If you will. I mean, nobody really knows, is it, like, have you lost your home field advantage because you have, you know, these fans from opposing teams who are, you know, coming in

and making it not quite as loud. And at some, you know, in some rare cases, kind of making it feel like a road game when you get a lot of fans from opposing teams, or is it the other way around? Is it because you've lost your home field advantage for whatever other reason, you've made it, you've kind of given your own fans more reason to sell their tickets? And certainly there's economic factors at play with how much money a pair of tickets can fetch against some of these really high profile

games and so look it's hard to really answer that and I don't think they could answer that but the one thing that they know and Mike McDonald has said this is that the only thing they can control is how well they play at home and if you play better at home you give you make it you know less likely that opposing fans

are going to show up and so yeah this was still an issue I would say towards the middle of the season going into that going into that Houston game on Monday night and since then they have not lost their 5 and 0 at home and so yeah I mean coming down in the playoff time I don't think you're going to see many fans

sell their tickets as tempting as it may be hey Brady really appreciate you taking the time thanks for this yeah you got it guys thanks for having me thanks Brady there is Brady Henderson covers the Seahawks for ESPN a regular here on the Halford & Brough show as far as the um attendance stuff

goes and uh you know I guess the the split of the crowd at Lumen Field, my personal experience as a visiting fan the last two years. And so I'm a Vikings fan, and so last year was really good for the Vikings. This year was really not good for the Vikings. But going into Lumen Field for both of them, there was a clear difference between this season and last season.

And it did feel like when I went, I guess it would have been two, three weeks ago for that game between the Vikings and C-Ox. It was very much, it was a much more hostile environment than it was last year. And so I would assume that continues for games against other teams too. And that is something that has been a hallmark of the Seahawks when they've been good. It's like, hey, they always have the home field advantage.

And that's one of the thing that kind of, I don't want to say separates them, but I think it does separate them to an extent from other teams, especially when you're talking about like the Rams or L.A. base teams. Yes, yeah. And it's been part of their identity. and it was a sign that things were slipping a little bit because it had gotten built up that this was the dominant home field advantage

and then when last season the team is having I think the 49ers in particular I went to the Bills game last season there were a ton of Bills fans I went to the Eagles game the season before that tons of Eagles fans so those you know those are two teams Super Bowl contenders will travel you're kind of

getting up for that but it had become an issue where the Niners game the annual game in Seattle a lot of Niners fans I think Green Bay coming in they played them on Sunday night late last season it was tons of Packers fans and that's when it really came to a head and it is an economic situation where a Seahawks fan can have season tickets flip their Packers game or their Niners game or their Vikings game and basically pay for the rest of their season tickets with the money that they make from selling tickets to one of the game. So it's interesting to see. And I know that Mike McDonald is a funny guy to listen to. He's pretty intense. And you could tell toward the end of the last season that he

was getting annoyed about the situation because it was something that he inherited. And he was trying to say, as Brady said, all he kept saying was, if we win, then our fans will be there, similar to her conversation about the Canucks. That's the way that they approach things. It's different in football where there's so few games and you can, again, recoup the value of your entire season ticket by selling off one or two games. But when those are the big games, when those are Sunday night games, that was a, like the Seahawks went 10 and 7 last year and missed the playoffs and they lost at home to Green Bay on Sunday night where there were a ton of Packers fans there. And when you talk about the recent history of the Seahawks, that home field advantage has always been. as one that actually matters.

A lot of times home ice, home field, home court can be a little overrated. With the Seahawks, it seemed about as real as possible. And I think we are starting to see that juice a little bit. And the team is better. The team has taken strides. They've progressed. You can see, I mean, just the defense this year has been incredible. You could start to see that progress throughout last season.

And the fan base is going to show up, you know, when the team is at this level. it's not like they need the team to always be 12 and 3 at this point to show up but that you know that guarantees that those fans will be there and if they get home playoff games we've seen what what that means in the past they've had some you know some great home playoff games when they've been the favorites or when they've been you know the the beast quake when they've big big alder docs I think when that's when that that narrative really took off although you know the Sean Alexander Matt Hasselbeck teams were also very successful at home in the playoffs

650, 650 is the Dunbar Lumbertext Line wanted to hit a couple Ask Us Anything's here before we hit the break Then we can hit more on the other side So send them in 650 650 This one from Capital Hill Ron

Here's the question for you Would you rather have the first overall pick And the last pick of the first round Or two picks between 6th and 15th overall Merry Christmas That's from Capitol Hill Ron Merry Christmas to you run.

Also, first pick and 30 second pick. Not close. Yeah, no, because you're getting the potentially franchise changing guy. And how often do drafts go six or seven deep? To, like, not often.

No. But I mean, you'd be, if you, I guess the case would be if you believe in your scouting staff to a level. And also, you don't think the first overall pick that year is like a franchise changing player

then maybe you can make the case but I think 99 times out of 100 you're going first pick and then you'll see what happens with the 30% I mean even with the other scenario though if that was a trade if you were trading the first and the last pick for a couple of picks closer to the middle and I was the team

that was acquiring the middle picks I would want more in that trade I would like you know what I mean I would be like give me a second or give me something else yeah so it's the one and I mean if you believe in your scouting staff, then you believe that they can hit on someone at 32. True, true. Rob and Surrey, two-part question, what is all of your favorite parts of the traditional

North American Christmas dinner? And then second part of the question, turkey or ham? Rob says ham. I would say stuffing. Yes, sir. My favorite part. Me too. It's a dog, Zach, do you agree? What's your favorite part? My favorite part? I mean, probably mashed potatoes It's gravy. Okay. Okay, Zach. You, I mean, you probably do like a British thing, don't you? I was going to say Yorkshire puddings are always great, but it's hard to fault stuffing.

It's always elite. Okay, so Turkey. Ours is weird because I'm American as well, so I also celebrate American Thanksgiving. And because we have turkey so close to Christmas, for me growing up, I often had ham. I know a lot of people have turkey for Christmas. Right. But for my family, we often would have ham for Christmas, which is weird because I'm not a big ham guy, but I will say one day a year on Christmas Day, ham is. is amazing. So I would definitely lean into the ham on Christmas Day. But had, where did that not a thing, don't be wrong, turkey is still amazing. I'm usually, all the, every day of the year.

Yeah. I'm usually a turkey for Thanksgiving and Christmas and then ham for East. Same guy. I think that's my family tradition as well. I've kind of committed to the, the turkey and I'm not a big gravy guy, but, but I put cranberry sauce on like the potatoes and the turkey. Oh man, nothing is a good gravy. I know. I've heard. I've tried. Don't. like it. I'm sorry. Oh, it's, it's, don't like it. Well, I like it specifically with Poutine, that's it. Okay. And that's a different. So you don't like gravy on mashed potatoes? No. No, like, so I guess I would say I would, my, my rankings would go, I'd have mashed potatoes with cranberry sauce, then potatoes with gravy and then just potatoes by themselves.

But generally, I tend not to put gravy on my plate. I didn't used to like cranberry sauce at these kind of dinners, and I've, over the years, as I've matured, I've come to appreciate it. got the palate now. Yeah, I've come to appreciate the cranberry sauce. And mine has just always been refined, so that's why I like cranberry sauce all the time. Right. 650, 650 is the Dunbar Lumbertex line texting your Ask Us Anythings. It's the final show of the week, so we're treating it like a Friday.

So get those questions in on the Dunbar Lumber text line. Before we go, though, Halpert & Brough is brought to you by Duick GM or sorry, Duick Auto Group. find out why nobody beats a duick deal since 1926 visit duick gm on marine drive downtown in richmond and at duick auto group dot com it is halford and brough josh leo wolf israel fair filling in on sports net 650