Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Seahawks Dream Season Continues

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat Week 18 with Too Deep Zone NFL insider Mike Tanier (1:54), plus the boys answer listener questions about what comes next for the Canucks (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

703 on a 703 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Bruff Sports Night 650. Halpern Brub of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Score a debt freedom hat trick. One, no more interest. Two, much lower payments than three.

Financial peace of mind. Visit them online at Sands-Trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program. Mike Taney or our NFL insider is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two is brought to you by Jason hominock at Jason. Dot mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason.

Mortgage. Whenever we play this song, I think the lawyers for Huey Lewis in the news might be making a call. Yep. They don't even try to hide it. Well, it is unlicensed. They're not, this isn't up paid. The power. The artist is not going to pay for this song. Well, just Lattie, just... Oh, well, maybe we'll get soon.

We're coming to you live from the Kintech Studio, make 2026 your year to move better and step stronger with Kintech custom orthotics. That was a good scene in American Psycho. when he was breaking down Huey Lewis in the news. Pretty good. It got dark after that.

It did get dark. I forgot about that scene. Or did it. Or did it. It's time now for our Monday morning quarterback, brought to you by the Clayton Public House. Pre-named to post game, the Clayton Public House is your home.

With football, catch all the action on 15 screens and two giant projectors. That's 17 screens for you mathletes out there. Visit them online at the Clayton Pub. To the phone lines we go. Mike Tanier, our NFL Insider, joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Michael. How are you?

I'm doing well. Do you remember when Huey Lewis sued Ray Parker, Jr., because Ghostbusters and I won a new drug are the same song? Yes. Actually, that's fine. I don't remember that. I don't remember it, but I read the story, oddly enough, like a month ago. I had no idea it existed.

But you're right. What a great pop culture crossover. Time out. Why are you reading about Huey Lewis and Ray Parker Jr. a month ago? It was something Ghostbusters. I was in a Ghostbusters kick. But it was something Ghostbusters related. Hughie Lewis also stepped in for Prince in We Are the World.

Yes. Did you know that? Yes, I watched the documentary too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's pretty good. They're like Prince Prince can't come. Huey, you're up. I can't think of a more appropriate lead-in to talking about the Seattle Seahawks than what we just did. But we're going to start there, Mike.

I know you have your AFC and NFC playoff previews up at the two deep zone right now. But we want to start with the Seattle Seahawks, in part because we haven't had enough time to talk about them in the first hour of the program. and a very, very, very dominant victory on Saturday gets them the number one seed in the NFC and that first round playoff by. How impressed were you with what the Seahugs did in San Francisco to the 49ers on Saturday? It was impressive that they did it to the 49ers

who are a strong team overall. At the same time, it was a very Seahawks victory-flavored Seahogs victory. Whereas, like, boy, the offense can't really pull it together. They're marching down the field and getting stopped or settling for field goals and missing field goals, which is out of character. And then at the end of the game, you look at the stats and you look at the final score. It's like, oh yeah, they beat the snout of them. It just felt nardier than it needed to be. So that might have been an introduction to like the national football audience to this

version of the Seahawks where the defense is dominant, running game is strong, Sam Darnold exists, and you find ways to just, not just win games, you don't find ways to win. It's not a way to blow out opponents that don't feel like blowouts when you're watching. If Sam Darnold doesn't turn the ball over, is that basically the key thing for the Seahawks? That's part of it, although the offense can't turtle up totally. It can't be just like, well, we're just going to run the ball and do screenpances. Although it was funny watching from the second straight week a handoff on third and 15 getting first down. Like, that's the level that this offense is operating at.

Yeah, third and ten could be a running down. Donald has to make a couple plays. He's got to find Jackson Smith and Jigba. He's got to once or twice find someone who's not Jackson Smith and Jigbat. I know Cooper Cup made a good diving catch that extended a drive when it needed to. That's it. The passing game has to be close to NFL average for everything else to be exceptional, and then that turns around and should leave the Seahawks through the playoffs.

Are the two number one seeds kind of similar? They are, but the Seahawks are. a superior team. Because when you first look at the Broncos, you see the same thing, like, oh, Bo Nix, you know, it's kind of a station to station offense. He tries to avoid mistakes. That's his thing. They win with defense. They've got a good special teams. Superficially, that's the case. Broncos had a much easier schedule than the Seahawks. They are much less battle tested than the Seahawks. And the Broncos defense has a huge penalty problem. They suffer so many pass interference penalties. They got guys like Riley Moss in the secondary who get

beat so they grab, so it makes their defensive stats look better, but their penalty stats look worse. Seahawks don't really have a problem like that. I see the Broncos getting knocked off before I see the Seahawks getting knocked off. The Seahawks are the odds makers favorites to be the NFC representative in the Super Bowl. Are they your favorites right now, Mike? They are, and I will admit a little bit of that is I look at all the other teams in the NFC and I go, eh, but that's it. That's the way the NFC field often looks where there's no Patrick Mahomes team. There's no, you know, Tom Brady Patriots ever in the NFC. It's the team that came through that looks relatively complete.

And that's what the Seahawks look like right now. And their biggest rival is probably their biggest rival of the Los Angeles Rams. And yeah, the Rams should have an easy draw in week one, but they're still going to have to go through this gauntlet of road games before they get anywhere near the Seahawks. What's the bigger story of the Steelers making the playoffs or the Ravens missing? It's the fact that that game boiled down to just chaos in the fourth quarter. It is so funny how the storyline teeter totters on a rookie missing a relative chip-shot field goal

because we get to like gush about Mike Tomlin's ability to manufacture wins and reach the playoffs where we'd be talking about him getting fired if Luke makes that. And Jim Harbaugh is pretty, John Harbaugh, excuse me, is pretty much in the same situation where if he kicks that field goal, we're not speculating. and musing about him or Lamar Jackson or all the other things that we're talking about with the Ravens. Lamar Jackson, is there

any chance he's on a different team next season? I put it at less than 1%. I don't think there's a lot of smoke for this fire. I think this is one of those stories that kind of spontaneously bubbled up out of like AI or the collective imagination.

It's hard to visualize this. And I'll say the same thing. When the Lions fans look at Jared Gough and they cock their head sideways. It's like, boy, Jared Gough doesn't look like the solution. Well, find the other solution, find the alternative. There's not a lot of great quarterbacks in this draft. There are not guys out there.

If you start talking about people like Mack Jones and Malik Willis being the best quarterbacks on the market, it's hard to envision and put together a trade scenario that makes sense for a team like the Ravens and Lamar Jackson. So we've talked about Buffalo a lot, specifically with this season. the sense that without Patrick Mahomes in the playoffs and without Lamar Jackson the playoffs, this is the year for Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills

to finally get there. But it's a tricky first round matchup having to go to Jacksonville. Set this one up for me. What do you think of the bill's chances of advancing in the game which is basically a pickum, at least according to the odds makers? Well, the Jaguars were a team that was

very mistake prone and self-destructive over the first six weeks of the season, then pulled themselves together, and I think I've been playing a little beyond their potential over the last, I think, eight weeks, so they have an eight great game winning streak. The Bills are a team that is self-destructive and mistake-prone once every three or four weeks. It's like clockwork.

They lay one of their eggs once every three or four weeks. So it creates a real situation for chaos in this game where if the Bills and Jaguars are both playing to their best, I think the Bills win. I think the Bills are a better team, pound for pound, day for day, when everyone is being normal. But the bills are rarely normal and the Jaguars cannot be counted upon to be normal too. So they're all kind of scenarios. So, you know, as a wagering man, I would lean towards the bills, but it's hard to evaluate because I don't know if the Jaguars are really as good as they've been in the last eight weeks or if they're waiting to have one of their goofy three

turnover, 15 penalty games, and they just haven't had one in a little while. I wonder if this could be the year that a team like the Chargers or the Texans goes to the Super Bowl. The Texans would be my team because when your defense can swallow everyone up when you have that one thing and the Seahawks are kind of like that too. The Texans have a little bit more of a shock and odd defense when you can take Josh Allen and sack him seven times

when you can intercept Patrick Mahomes three times that means you can beat anybody that's your equalizer. In the short term I'm not sure the Chargers can overtake the Patriots. I'm kind of lean in Patriots in that one. Aaron Rogers is going to get vivisected by the Texans defense. He is going to watch tape of that defense, and he's going to spend the rest of this week in a yurt somewhere, meditating, because he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to deal with what he's about the face.

So I think the Texans come out around one pretty handily in the playoffs. Are we just forgetting about the Philadelphia Eagles and all this? I am based in Philadelphia, and we have forgotten about the Philadelphia Eagles. You cannot overlook the Eagles because they're facing a very vulnerable 49ers team, and the 49ers offense looks spectacular until it faced the, Seahawks defense. Well, the Eagles defense is not that different from the Seahawks defense. So it's a very good chance at the Eagles, despite an offense that even Seahawks fans will look at and say, man, that offense really, really stalled out sometimes. Despite that, uses their pure talent, uses their, you know, experience, championship level experience,

to find their way through the playoffs and win a game or two. I do want to turn our attention to the very first wild card game that'll be on Saturday at 1.30 are a time and that's the Rams at the Panthers. I only really want to focus on this one because the Panthers are one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs. They have a minus 69 point differential

this year. Nice. Yeah. The only playoff teams. They're going to have their version of the Beastquake now. So, okay, I'm glad you brought up that team. There's only three teams in NFL history that had a worse point differential going into the playoffs including the Seahawks team you're talking about. All three of them won

in the wild card. Do the Panthers have a chance of beating the Rams who are a 10-point road favorite on Saturday? When the Panthers win and they did upset the Rams this year, it's beast quake type stuff. You know, it's either Rico Dowell runs for 255 yards and you're wondering, wait, who's Rico Dowdall? I thought he was on the Cowboys.

Either that happens or Bryce Young on 4th and 6 scrambles away and throws a 70-yard touchdown, which something similar happens against the Rams, or there's some mistake and some defense. Fender you never heard of picks up a pick six. It's weird, it's random, it's fluky, and it keeps happening for the Panthers. Now, probability and common sense tells you it's not, the lightning isn't going to strike the Rams twice, that they're going to look at that film, they're going to look

at the mistakes they made, they're going to use the fact that they're a far superior team and get that win. But what I've been saying about the Panthers, I don't think they're going to win. You look at the NFC South, I'm glad they're in it because the Buccaneers were underachievers and the Falcons were complete underachievers, and they just fired everyone. The Panthers are overachievers. They got out there and got those upsets.

They made wacky things happen. So good. Good for you. Go out there to have your playoff game, have your home game, let the fans eat that Carolina barbecue. You're probably going to get hammered, but it's been a fun and interesting season.

What do you think about the Packers' Bears matchup? All I'm thinking is if the Bears lose this one, the fans are going to lose their minds. Right, right, of all things because of that rivalry. And you'll look at this team that's really beat up. It has no Mike at Pelt Parsons, and it's down a lot of guys on defense. And yet, when I looked at the two regular season matchups, the Packers were in control of both of those games until the fourth quarter.

And they won one on the last second interception, and they lost one because the dumbest stuff in the world happened in the fourth quarter of the game, including onside kicks and stuff like that. It's closer than I think Bears fans would even want to admit between these two teams. I'm leaning bears, but the bears are a little bit like the Patriots in my mind where it's like there was a lot of flukiness there are a lot of easy games. There's a lot of

schedule assist at work there. So my level of trust in the bears isn't high, especially after what they did yesterday where when they needed to win, they spotted the lines of 16-0-0 lead. This team isn't really as ready for postseason action as they might appear today.

Okay, so the Falcons fire Rahim Morris, and then this one just came down. The Browns have fired Kevin Stefansky. by the way, it was twice-named NFL coach of the year over the last six seasons. The Browns are keeping their GM. The Falcons also fired their GM. Right. So on the coaching front, what's the next domino to fall here?

Who's the next coach that's going to be dismissed? I keep waiting for Rich Gannon to get fired in Arizona, but media around the Arizona Cardinals is so scant. No one pays attention to him. They could have already fired him. We wouldn't even know. Like, Schechter might have gotten a text message. I'm like, I'll get to that way.

I get to it. Who cares? Two o'clock this afternoon, Eastern time, there is a Ravens Press conference. I think they're going to announce that Harbaugh is keeping his job, et cetera. But we're going to wait and see on that. It's Black Monday. One, you have to expect the unexpected, and two, nowadays, some of these decisions get made two, three, four days down the road, not Monday morning at 10 a.m. Eastern like we all expect them to be.

Are we all anticipating that Pete Carroll is going to be done in Las Vegas? Think so. I can't imagine them being excited to move forward, and I can't imagine Pete Carroll being excited to move forward after the season he suffered through either. Any others that you could think of? What about Todd Bowles? Oh, I heard rumblings that he's safe, and I couldn't believe it. Like, I fell out of my chair, that they're comfortable with him. I thought that that team tuned him out. I think they were still tuning him out on Saturday night. It's just it was a weird game. So I'm shocked, but it sounds like he's going to be safe. Were you a little bit surprised at all that the Falcons fired their coach after finishing up pretty strong? I can understand the GM firing, considering how they handled all the quarterback stuff.

But the Falcons seem to be playing. They seem to be playing. Morris is a defensive coach. Their defense got better and better as the year went on. It looked like those guys were coming around. What surprised me is, and they made the right decision on them. They fired the coach, the GM, and the team president, Rich McKay. The boss of the boss of the boss was clean swept away.

Arthur Smith, the owner just got rid of everybody. I think that's the right call. I think the problem for years is that top-of-the-line level management leadership decision-making. That has been faulty. That's how they traded their first-round pick. That's how they got cousins and Pennicks at the same time and some of these other goofy decisions. So if you're going to fire the team president and you're going to fire the GM, the coach is just going to have to go along for a ride.

That's the way it is. And I'm curious to see how the Falcons approach their next step. The wild card round begins on Saturday with the Rams and the Panthers at 1.30 are a time. It's a full weekend of football, including a Monday night playoff game. So, Mike, we'll say goodbye for now. For the loser teams, I didn't get a buy. That's right. We'll say goodbye for now.

We'll rejoin you next Monday where we'll look back on all of the wildcard games from Saturday and Sunday and preview the Monday night or between the Texans and the Steelers. Absolutely. Well, take care, guys, and don't get sued by Huey Lewis while I'm away. We'll try not to. Thanks, Mike. Take care and enjoy your week. Mike Tanier, our NFL insider from the two deep zone here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650. So I'm watching that Ravens Steelers game last night. Yep.

And I'm thinking, you know, I really, I don't care for Aaron Rogers that much, but I was still cheering for him. Oh. Because I wanted the Ravens to miss, because I felt like the Ravens, were the scarier, more dangerous team. And if they got to the Super Bowl, what if the Seahawks get to the Super Bowl? That's where I'm at right now. And I have to say, that's fair, that's fair.

And I have to say, it's a nice feeling. It's a nice feeling to be pleasantly surprised by your team. I went into this season thinking the Seahawks would go, I don't know, at best, a couple games over 500, maybe make the playoffs. but not be a threat at all. And, like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think back to teams that surprised me. And, like, there aren't that many that have done it to this extent with the Seahawks.

It wasn't that long ago that I was like, well, the Seahawks aren't, I mean, they're never going to be, like, Super Bowl contenders unless they get their next franchise quarterback. And I was kind of like, yeah, I like what Gino's doing. It's good. But they're not Super Bowl contenders with this guy. They bring in Sam Darno, and I'm like, yeah, you know, like he's a, I guess he's a stopgap. And they'll maybe try and get the defense on board and create some more playmakers on offense. And then I don't know how they're going to find the next guy, but they're just going to have to.

And I would tell the story about, you know, well, you know, the way they found Russell Wilson wasn't the traditional route. He kind of came out of nowhere. He was a later round pick. and it just worked and now I'm in this position where like I recognize that the odds makers are saying the Seahawks are the Super Bowl favorites

but I'm still not sure if I believe it very similar vibes for me to the Vancouver Whitecaps season that we just went through as a matter of fact where it came completely out of left field that's a very good point I should have thought of that right away yeah huge surprise and kind of pinching yourself along the way realizing that they were a title contender

that they were And then, of course, the white caps quite famously went all the way to the MLS Cup final and what was a banner year for the organization. A couple of things on the Seahawks right now. They have clinched the number one seed in the NFC for the fourth time in team history. And that's important because the previous three times that they clinched the number one seed, they went to the Super Bowl. It was in 05 when they did it under Mike Holmgren and they did it twice under Pete Carroll in 2013 and 2014.

So it goes without saying that, especially. Especially now, getting the first overall seed, getting the buy, and having everyone have to go through your city to get to the Super Bowl is a decided advantage. They only need to win two games to get to the Super Bowl. That's insane. You have to win two games. What's the Seahawks? Two games at, you know, Lumenfield. Like, that's what we're talking about.

And that is kind of crazy to wrap your head around. What team scares you the most is still the Rams for me? It's Philly for me. Until otherwise proven, it's Philly for me because here's what I. Couldn't you see the Rams getting upset in Carolina, not upsetting Carolina, beating Carolina, beating Carolina, right? And then isn't there a chance of everything goes that that would be the Seahawks opponent? Yeah, I mean, they gets receded, right?

So the Seahawks face the lowest seed remaining in the next round. But I would look at the Rams game and I would say stylistically, the Seahawks have proven that they can score against the Rams defense. I know the first half in that last game was a struggle, but boy, they figured it out in the second half and overtime. With Philly, I think that if you're going to get into a game where it's going to be like a rock fight, or it's going to be defense is going to win the day. The Seahawks have a tremendous defense, no question.

But Philly has proven in the last three playoff runs, and I know one was abbreviated, but the other two ended in Super Bowl appearances, they can win those games with regularity. They enjoy those 16, 13 games. They know how to win them They can control time of possession They can turn the game into a slug

They can win ugly The Seahawks I think have all the makings of a team That can do that But they're not as battle tested as Philly Philly still really scares me In that in the NFC In the AFC I have no idea I'm not even sure Buffalo is going to get out of Jacksonville

I think that they will No there's a chance they won't Buffalo's biggest advantage should have been They said goodbye to their home stadium too. Yesterday, they're not expecting to play a game there. I don't think they're going to. That should have been their thing this year, is that in addition, not having Mahomes in the playoffs and not having Lamar Jackson in the playoffs, no one expected New England to win that division. That was going to be Buffalo's division. They were going to get at least one home game

in January in the cold in Buffalo, and now they're not going to get that. So it remains to be seen what happens, but I'm very excited for the weekend. You got a couple of games on Saturday. Sunday is amazing with three games on the slate. And then, of course, you get the Monday night game as well. Okay, I need to remind everybody that portions of the show are brought to by the Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats a Duick deal nobody has since 1926. Visit them online at the Duick Auto Group.com. You can also visit them in person at Duick on Marine Drive, Duick downtown, and Duick in Richmond.

We got a lot more to get to on the Halford and Brush Show on Sportsnet 650. We have an open segment coming up. We can get into anything you want to get into. text us. Dunbar Lumber text message in basket is 650, 650. If you want to talk NFL, we can do that. If you want to do more Canucks talk, we can do that. We've also got Kevin Woodley coming up at 8 o'clock as well for some Canucks talk. There's a 90 minutes into the show, 90 minutes still to go. You're listening to the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Strance. Get your daily dose of Canucks Talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on SportsNet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app.

Seven 32 on a Monday, Happy Monday, Sportsnet 6.50. Halford Brough of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. License insolvency trustee can cut your debt by up to 80% with the upfront fees. To learn how, visit them online at Sands dash trustee.com. So we've had a few texts into the Dunbar Lumber text line. Asking about Braden Kutz, what we thought of his tournament. It was just, I don't know, he didn't factor much, did he didn't seem to be a favorite of the head coach. He wasn't one of the guys that was turned to when they needed him.

and maybe that shouldn't be a huge surprise because he's relatively young and he's still got another year of world juniors eligibility and they always say this is a 19 year old's tournament there are exceptions to that rule for sure but I think it's going to be more interesting frankly to watch what happens to Coots now because he could be traded from his WHL team

remember when he was on the Vancouver Canucks? Yeah, I do. Remember that? Seemed kind of crazy. Even at the time, it was crazy. I think I talked myself into it being a good idea, though. I'm want to do that. Was his biggest problem on the World Junior team not playing in Ontario? Oh.

Oh, are you going there? Are you going there? Yeah. Okay. What was the percentage? It was wildly skewed towards Ontario players. There was a few conspiracy theories floating around about who was getting ice time and who was getting minutes and who was getting in the lineup and where they played.

Now. Josh Ravensburg and maybe the best goldener that they brought to the tournament didn't see a minute of action Where does he play? Prince George Huh

Interesting Greg I'm just throwing it out there I don't know what to make of the Coots in particular I'll admit yesterday while watching the game I was distracted because I was also watching

the Steelers and Ravens but I did not I don't think I heard Coots's name yesterday but he wasn't even a locked to make that team. No. Like he wasn't a for sure going to be on this team guy,

so they probably just didn't look at him that way. The guys that they were going to turn to were going to be the players that were there last year. And Gavin McKenna and like Michael Mesa, who wasn't on the team last year. And by the way, I didn't think much of in the tournament. And he made a nice pass on the first goal of the game to a Gimla. But there just weren't enough guys that were,

I'd say a Gindlin was the guy that impressed me the most in terms of like, see that space over there? That's going to be mine. Yeah. I'm going to take that space. And the other guys were like, oh, there's someone there already. You know what I mean? So I'll just hang out or I'll try and make a fancy pass or whatever.

But Coots, look, as I was saying, the most interesting thing is going to be his, development going forward because Halfer mentioned he was on the Canucks this season so maybe they're going to make room for him next season but he could also play for Abbotsford because there's that new rule he's not going to be back in the dub I'm fairly certain of that next season

will he be eligible to play for Canada at the World Juniors yes will he go there who knows we'll wait and find out on that but that was that's kind of the braiding coots. There's really not much to report on his time at the tournament because he wasn't that important to player. If you've got any text, send him into the Dunbar Lumber

text line, 650, 650 Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and renter warriors for over 50 years, visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dunbarlumber.com. Yeah, I think the Coots thing is instructive as we're going to pivot here to, what are the trade's going to happen for the Vancouver Canucks? but, and one of the things that I distinctly remember talking about in the aftermath of the

Queen Hughes trade, we came in here on a Friday night, did an emergency show, we were talking at length about what comes next after the Vancouver Connects made this huge, profound franchise altering trade of Quinn Hughes, and Coots's name came up as one of the pieces for the future. And I distinctly remember saying, what the organization can't do is paint itself into yet another corner where there's a ton of responsibility and pressure and importance put on one individual prospect. And that could be Brayton Coots or otherwise.

It's that far too often in the last 15 years of history of the Vancouver Canucks, the draft process has kind of been, well, we drafted a guy. And when, not if, but when he turns out, we're going to be a. okay. We did the draft thing. Now we'll do the developed thing and everything's going to be all right. And if the last 15 years should have taught us anything, it's that drafting and development is a very inexact science and it's tough. It's tough to project what a 17 or 18 year old kid is going to look like a year removed from it. You don't know what Brayton Coots would look like next year at this time. So let's get more picks in the door. Let's get more

picks, more picks, more picks. Exactly. And let's not necessarily fall in love with the players that we have understanding that they are contributing to a team that has four home wins this year, right? It's a team that is fundamentally flawed. I don't think anyone should get away from that no matter what, you know, run of results may change or where the standings, because they're jumbled or at. Like, it's not a very good option. You know what I didn't expect is to see Tom Vielander running a power play with the first unit power play. I don't think he expected that either. He's like, seriously?

Yeah. Okay. What do you think of his game, by the way? I like his skating. I think... There's an element of learning on the job right now. Maybe this can be kind of like a running joke here. One thing I've noticed

that Tom Vielander is he's sometimes in the way. Yeah. Like in the way of his own teammates. I know exactly what you're talking about. And I think that's just getting to know the NHL game and the speed of it

and staying out of the way sometimes You likened it to a cat Yeah, it's like he's like a You know if you have a pet Or it can be a dog That's underfoot Yeah, it's more often a cat But sometimes it's a dog

You can trip over the dog Well, Leonard is just how they're always said Oops, sorry, sorry I have two cats and a dog So I'm like constantly tripping over animals In my house Yeah And sometimes like

Tyler Myers sometimes feel that about Tom Vielander? Maybe Vialander feels out about Myers. I don't know. Maybe they're, but they, he seems to, I think,

look, I think the point is, is he's still pretty raw in terms of an NHL player. And I do sometimes, sometimes wonder about his hockey sets. I think his skating is definitely there. But I think this is another instructive thing about drafting and developing

is because when the Canucks took Tom Vielander 11th overall in 2012, 23, there was a large section of the fan base that was like, well, they've got the blue liner now. Like, he's almost a top 10 pick. He's 11th overall. It's going to turn out. He's going to be. He's going to be a guy.

He's going to be an important player. Is there anyone else? No. No. And we got on the right side. There are a lot of eggs in that basket. And it's just through no fault of the player himself. Like, he's doing everything he can do.

But sometimes guys just don't predict. out to the heights that I think a lot of people want and a lot of it has to do with like the prospect machine that exists in hockey Do you know what I was thinking watching the world juniors How many guys

I'd been impressed with at The World Juniors and then I'm like Where are those guys now? Yeah I'm like you know here's a guy He's actually having a pretty good year for Philly I remember watching Carl Grunstrom And thinking man that guy's a good player

Good example He's going to be a player with the Los Angeles there for a while I think he was originally draft by the Leafs and I'm like and then he just I don't know

he never maybe he's finding his way now but but everyone falls in love there's a bunch of really good players at that tournament there's a bunch of really good prospects everyone falls in love with their own prospects though

yes that's a big that's what you have that is a major major problem there's one thing I learned and it's understandable for fans it's not excusable for management if there's one thing

I distinctly remember learning when we had the NBC gig and we worked and we did cover the NHL large and we really hyper focused on a lot of these markets was everybody, everybody falls in love with their prospects because there's an element of, I don't know if it's hubris, but every organization believes that if they get the guy in the door and they do the work and they identify that talent and they work with it, they're going to turn it into this incredibly valuable asset, which is something that's organic and grown and you don't pay much money

at the start of his career and you're getting good value off that contract and then he becomes part of your organization. That's the ideal, but that's the ideal for every single guy that they bring in the door. The reality of it is it does not work out that way because to hit on

even like, let's just say a top four defenseman that plays a thousand games in the NHL. Like Morgan Riley, for example. That's an amazing pick. That's an amazing story.

You found the guy. You drafted him. You developed him. It worked. He was a loyal foot soldier for your organization. He played some really good hockey. Those are also rare and hard to come by. Yeah.

Right? Like, Vielander might not be that. And I think a lot of people just assumed that he probably would be because he was a high pick. He might be though. He skates really well and he's got his and he's getting a great learning experience. But might is the most.

important word. Like it might happen and it might not. There's a lot of might haves and might bes, but there's also a lot of might nots. Yeah. And that's why and that's the whole genesis of the stockpile prospects. You know the other problem with falling in love with your prospects and assuming because you made the pick that it was the right pick is that sometimes that affects your next pick too. If the Canucks, I'll explain here, if the Canucks hadn't drafted Vertan do you think there's a better chance that they draft Kachuk instead of reaching for what they didn't have

and that was defensemen and taking you levy because maybe they felt well we're already got for Tannen we got this winger yeah drafting for position rather than need or drafting not best player really or just realizing like

well you know we got this guy and he's still young he'll pan out do we need two of them do we need two of them and then sometimes you can get into that you can get into that trap where you're like okay well we need this because just because you're the Canucks look this is a this is an outright fact the Canucks for a team that hasn't been very good for the last decade in a bit has not drafted many players no no that's just that's just a fact you know you compare it to other teams that have rebuilt through the years And they have some drafts where they've drafted like 15 guys or whatever, you know, go through all the Canucks picks. They've traded away a lot of picks.

They traded away a lot of picks for, you know, some moves that have worked out. I mean, to what end you could say of the J.T. Miller trade or the Philoporonic trade, but those players were good players. Then they traded away draft capital for them. You know, they brought in Marcus Pedersen for a first round draft pick. to be determined on that one but they also traded away a ton of second round picks or third round picks

chasing that age group that they want it because they're like we want to bring in players that are more NHL ready why? Because we're so impatient Yeah and then there was other and Trans brings up all these like smaller moves the death by a thousand paper cup move

the Jason Dickinson where you have to you acquire them for a pick and then you have to also give up a pick to kind of get him out the door right like

and then those well what about Reichel right they give up a fourth for him right and they're like oh yeah he's not good

and again we're at a stage now where if you're looking and a lot of this comes from the Sherwood conversation which really hit a fever pitch on Saturday when Frege had his report that the Canucks had made a

quote unquote offer don't get caught up in the semantics but a quote unquote offer to Sherwood and I think there's a there's an understanding of the fan base that Sherwood is a good player Sherwood has exceeded his value on the contract that they've given him

and in another world, an ideal world, you would want to keep that guy around and award him because he's ticked every box imaginable, right? And there is something to be said for a guy that comes to your team outperforms and, you know, kicks beyond his coverage in terms of his contract. and gives you good value on a return. The amount of like,

I had people randomly sending me stuff on Twitter being like, I can't believe that they're considering doing this. That's the gauge and the temperature of where the fan base is at, just clamoring to not entertain any of these ideas and just try, try, try, try to get more picks in the door. So you get seven picks every draft. There's seven rounds. Yep.

Last year, the Canucks made six picks. The year before, they only made five, starting in the third round, Melvin Fernstrom, I guess, should maybe, have they already traded him away? I don't even know. Yeah, he's gone to Pittsburgh, is he not? Really? Mm-hmm. Okay.

The year before, they made, well, they made seven picks there. Although none in the second round. That was the Tom V-Lander draft. the year before six picks the year before that six picks the year before that only five picks and you have to go back all the way

to 2019 the year they drafted Pod Colson and Holglander for a year where they had more than the allotted seven and they made nine picks but five of them were in the sixth

and seventh round like this is a team that has been not good for a decade and a half pretty much now and they've traded away so many draft picks which always brings me back to my question is there anyone at Rogers Arena that's ever like hey are we doing this wrong

No, like, are we, are we, are we, should we, instead of training away all these draft picks, make the draft picks. Lyndon said that. Right, he's not there anymore, though. Yeah, so there you go. Because, look, I, that guy got thrown out a window. I don't want to get thrown out of a window. I understand that sometimes there are good trades that you make and you bring in a player that is maybe not done well in one organization. and you give him a fresh start

and it's a great trade. You know, I think Philly made a great trade for Trevor Zegris, for example. Sure. Didn't give up much to get him, okay? No, we'll see to what end in Philly, but the point has made. But when you're trading for a guy,

like Lucas Reichel, for example, like what makes you think that Chicago's given up on him? So what makes you think that you know better? Is it just desperation where you're like, maybe a fresh start or we need a guy? Desperation played a part 100%. Which is always the driving force of any good trade.

Desperation. But there has to be, in my opinion, like a really, really, really good reason why this player is going to work in your organization. when the other other organization essentially said, nah, we're punting on it. Like, we don't want this guy anymore. It's not.

It's a shot in the dark. That's what it was. And that's what it'll continue to be. There's, it's... Chasing that age group. Chasing the dragon. Was one of the biggest mistakes that the Canucks made. Because they were just like, well, we fell behind.

So we've got to catch up. But then when you try and catch up, you leave yourself further behind. Because you're borrowing from the future to try and make up for what you've already lost. and they would have been so much better if they just accepted, hey, we lost.

You know, we traded away a bunch of picks and our prospect group really fell behind because we were trying to win a Stanley Cup. You know, and we were a pretty good team and frankly, we came really close. Yeah. And it's understandable

that our prospect group got decimated. It's understandable. That happens. But they tried to replace that. essentially by mortgaging the team's future and it seems like they've been trying to catch up and catch up and catch up and catch up

ever since and they've never had this man you think we've got a couple top prospects there's guys you don't even know about that are good like you forgot about this guy we got this guy in the second round he's a good player too and you know other teams look at your group and you're like man I wish we had all that many young guys it brings it back to your point

there have been way too many times where you're like man you levy better pan out or else yeah there's a lot of hope on two few guys Peter and Cloverdale writes in the caducs saw what Daniel Jones and Baker Mayfield did turning it around and thought hey let's do that

I will say as we pivot off for a second here as we compare the two sporting leagues and entities it is it would be nice it would be nice if the NHL allowed for a more aggressive hybrid ritual like what you see in the national football.

Josh and I talked about this last week. It's just so fundamentally different. I know it is, but I'm just allowed like dare to dream. Jacksonville, for example, the first team in, I think it's NFL history, or at the very least last team in several decades, to lose 13 games one year and win 13 games,

the following year. The Jacksonville Jaguars who are going to host the playoff game and take on the Buffalo Bills this wild card weekend were 4 and 13 last year. This year they're 13 and 4.

To have that one season turnaround is a magical thing for a fan base because you don't have to really go through a long, drawn-out suffering process where the games are meaningless

and your team stinks. The NHL, that's baked into the rest of, Now, and that's where you get this very odd. I think a lot of, I think a lot of fans of other sports that don't follow the NHL do look at that element of it and say, that's a weird dynamic where you can't turn things around quickly because you can't have impact players in the draft from one year to the next. Even the NBA, you can have rookie players come in out of the draft and make a significant impact

in terms of wins and losses. Maybe not to the degree of the national football league. I don't think any league does, but you can't have that. You know, again, you look at this. most recent NHL draft and outside of the handful of guys that are making an impact Schaefer being the most predominant one, everything else is a sort of wait and C approach. And it does require patience from a fan base. And I get that. But when you look at some of these other leagues, it does, it makes you understand why there's always that that hope and that optimism that,

you know, with just a few moves, we can turn things around. It just doesn't apply in the national hockey league. It fundamentally does not apply. In the NFL, you can cut guys. Yeah, that's a big part of it too. You can and you can have a draft and get how many starters out of a draft

three or four? Look at the Seattle Seahawks over the last two years the amount of impact players that they have added specifically to their offensive line but also Smith and Jigba at the wide receiver position. Eam and Worry making a huge different on the defensive side of football. Those are guys that came

and from day one were impact players. Yep. Not guys that had to learn and matriculate and play with a veteran defensive partner, right? They made impact plays right away. And it just doesn't exist. The problem with all of what we've said is that the Canucks don't seem to understand any of this. Any of it. It's like they don't exist in the parameters of the NHL.

Yeah. You know, it's like we're going to do things differently. Don't worry. Don't worry. We've got a hybrid idea here. And we're going to do things differently. And right now, they do not have a single high-impact player in their lineup. Not one.

No. Not one. They're only six point out of the playoffs, so that's something. Is it six? I think it's six. They're right there, man. Right there. They're right there.

Right there. If right there was 31st overall. Maybe drafting first overall this year isn't a big thing because you never, never know. It might be a bust of a player. You're only six points out in the weak division. I said we go for it. This is the year. sure would.

Yep, go for it. Trade the picks. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. Has there ever been a better time? I don't know. Some people don't pick up on the sarcasm sometimes.

I think maybe. Some of it, including in this room, where I'm like, this seems like a pretty good idea. Laying on pretty thick right now. We got to go to break, though. One final segment to go on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and Engel magazine is going to join us on the other side.

But before we go to break, I need to tell you about Jan Pro. From warehouses to washrooms and everywhere in between JanPro keeps workplaces tidy, clean, and disinfected. For a free quote, visit them online at janpro.com. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650.